Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuckins on August 22, 2006, 07:49:30 PM

Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Shuckins on August 22, 2006, 07:49:30 PM
One test of the greatness of any civilization is the quality of the cartoons it produces.

A decline in the quality of animated entertainment is a powerful indicator of the overall slide of a country into decadence and degeneracy.

I hereby challenge all the sundry to prove that the current era of cartoon culture is NOT totally lacking in taste, character, intellectual stimulation, and entertainment quality.

I hereby throw down the gauntlet!  The cartoons of the forties, fifties, and sixties were far superior to the trash being produced today!  I darest you to prove me wrong!  Offer up any proof you want...dialogue...pictures... etc.

Hereby is offered proof of the truth of my claims.

(http://members.fortunecity.com/gogodncr/Daffy.Duck.-.Duffy.Duck.Background.jpg)

Modern cartoons are teh suck.  

(http://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/PDVD_018.27-700482.jpg)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Charon on August 22, 2006, 08:27:58 PM
I agree. Now that I have a 6-month-old boy, I decided to check out a few Saturday morning cartoons a week or so ago.

What crap.

I remember my father saying Scoopy Doo was crap back in the day, and I guess he had a point to some extent compared to the Warner Bros, but good old Scooby is a quantum leap above the new crap I saw. And those live actor kid shows just illustrate another way to save a few bucks over even cheap animation.

Ryan will get a full diet of WB on DVD, and maybe a few other good classics.

No Disney though, since he may actually want to vist a theme park and that costs about as much as a year of College.

Charon
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Wolfala on August 22, 2006, 08:35:08 PM
Last decent cartoon I watched aside from Tail Spin...


ExoSquad Wiki  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exosquad)

To me, this show was more for adults then anything. It delt with racism, war, death in a semi recognizable future.  It has the strength of any great novel and I encourage you to just take a chance... watch, and listen.



Main page (http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~pdanner/resolute2.shtml)


(http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~pdanner/exo/exosquad.gif)


Destruction of the Freighter Danube (http://tfarchive.com/Exosquad/shipself.avi)


Opening scenes  (http://tfarchive.com/Exosquad/vidopen.mpg)

Carrier Resolute Destruction (http://tfarchive.com/Exosquad/resdest.avi)

Fleet attack (http://tfarchive.com/Exosquad/war.avi)

Episode 3 Part 1 (Backdoor attack on Earth) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ZUzpgtKw8)

Episode 3 Part 2 (Backdooring Earth) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s98f4_jV6k)

One of the best Episodes - destruction of the Carrier Resolute (pt1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCB-pjk8hx4)


Destruction of the carrier resolute (pt2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmlpxdLpFF4)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Chairboy on August 22, 2006, 08:35:28 PM
The Venture Bros.

A henchman being called back into service: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri_daJuIdPQ&search=venture%20bros

Some kids being 'Scared Straight' by supervillains:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvc9SAUTAZE&mode=related&search=venture%20bros

Think "Johnny Quest" except 20 years later, Johnny has grown up and lives in the shadow of his supergenius adventurer father.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Shuckins on August 22, 2006, 10:21:26 PM
Yep...I've always found animated characters using the ef word profusely to be absolutely HILARIOUS!  :rofl
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: FiLtH on August 22, 2006, 10:25:42 PM
Looney Tunes and Jonny Quest
Title: Re: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 22, 2006, 10:27:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins


Modern cartoons are teh suck.  



You're soo wrong:p

The Simpsons, and Family Guy are some of the best cartoons out there:aok

If that's not enough I think you should check out some anime (Japanimation) being produced in Japan.    

I don't know how they do it but those guys seem to know how to produce a cartoon with decent story line and characterisation.  More teens and adults these days watch anime these days.  

I rarely watch anime but I accidentally found some great titles.


If you're curious what anime is like you should check out...Welcome to the NHK (http://youtube.com/watch?v=a9M2W8J7GhA)

Quote
Genres: comedy, Psychological, Slice of Life

Plot Summary: Tatsuhiro Satou, 21 years old, thinks that everything that happen around him is a conspiracy. He figure out who is behind it all: The NHK, an evil secret company. “When you think anime, you think otaku. When you think otaku, you think people that dislike other people. Those people become hikikomori (people who shut themselves in)”. So Satou manage to uncover the plot of The NHK (stands for Nihon Hikikomori Kyōkai), after three years of shutting himself in (and rapidly approaching the fourth). In reality, he is nothing more then a NEET (Not in Employment, Education or Training), desperately in need of a cure from that ‘disease’. He want to break out from the curse, but going out and getting a job is frightening enough for him. That is until he gets selected for a ‘project’; it is a plan to help hikikomori like him in facing the reality of this world.


It's in jap audio with English subtitles (subtitled by fans who knows Japanese).  The show is not yet licensed in the US and i hope Welcome to the NHK gets to USA next year.

Btw NHK in real life is a Japanese public TV station, equivalent to BBC and PBS.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: RightF00T on August 22, 2006, 10:54:24 PM
Check out Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends and Danny Phantom....quality cartoon humor there.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 22, 2006, 11:01:11 PM
1k3 that's some trippy **** you got there.

I guess you watch anime too

NHK is a bit too dark humor.  That Satou guy needs help
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 22, 2006, 11:26:02 PM
I used to watch this back in Mexico, it's still one of my favorites... Ranma 1/2, soo  cute and frickin hillarious!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=35ZmMvXVJA8&mode=related&search=
I wish that site had the spanish audio.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: rpm on August 22, 2006, 11:37:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
The Venture Bros.

A henchman being called back into service: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri_daJuIdPQ&search=venture%20bros

Some kids being 'Scared Straight' by supervillains:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvc9SAUTAZE&mode=related&search=venture%20bros

Think "Johnny Quest" except 20 years later, Johnny has grown up and lives in the shadow of his supergenius adventurer father.
Thought I was the only fan of Hank and Dan here. Go Team Venture!
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Chairboy on August 22, 2006, 11:39:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Thought I was the only fan of Hank and Dan here. Go Team Venture!
Go Team Venture!

Truly awesome show.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Shuckins on August 22, 2006, 11:42:26 PM
Sorry guys...I can't see the appeal.  The cussin' is an immediate turn-off.   I can't get past it.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Chairboy on August 22, 2006, 11:45:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Sorry guys...I can't see the appeal.  The cussin' is an immediate turn-off.   I can't get past it.
I don't hear any cussing, perhaps you heard a different clip than I did?

Wait, I did hear some bleeps...  is that what you're talking about?

Context, of course, is that that scene in the prison deliberately has implied swearing because, well, it's a parody of the scared straight routine.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: straffo on August 22, 2006, 11:53:51 PM
Well I disagree : http://youtube.com/watch?v=SUcGgtWZg9Q
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 22, 2006, 11:54:59 PM
Adult Swim network right now is getting flak from comedy and anime fans.  Comedy fans complain about airing Peewee's Playhouse, lack of better comedy shows other than reruns from FOX.  Anime fans complain of not representing enough anime lineup, cutting opening and ending song credits on anime shows, and censorship (there are minor censorships on their shows but anime fans find it unacceptable)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: rpm on August 23, 2006, 12:05:35 AM
Maybe Shuckins is more of a Moral Orel fan.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Shuckins on August 23, 2006, 12:08:44 AM
Straffo...not bad.  :aok


Some of the cartoon networks are becoming dominated by some of the crappiest, low-end Japanese anime ever conceived.  The freeze-frame variety.  What is the fascination with that bilge?


The higher-end anime is pretty good, but a lot of it is too weird (Japanese humor sometimes appears to be from an anti-matter universe).

Regards, Shuckins
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 12:12:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by tikky
I used to watch this back in Mexico, it's still one of my favorites... Ranma 1/2, soo  cute and frickin hillarious!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=35ZmMvXVJA8&mode=related&search=
I wish that site had the spanish audio.


I introduced that to my co-worker, he liked it so much he bought all the VHS and DVD episodes!
Title: Re: Re: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 23, 2006, 12:28:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
You're soo wrong:p

The Simpsons, and Family Guy are some of the best cartoons out there:aok

 


I think he was referring to the artistry.

A point which I would have to agree.

Todays cartoons look as if they were drawn by a 5th grader

then again. upon thinking about it maybe not

I remember my friends doing  BETTER artwork then you see even on the Simpsons/ Family guy back in the 5th grade.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Chairboy on August 23, 2006, 12:40:05 AM
Here's some Moral Orel for consideration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1mgfIA2roM
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: SMIDSY on August 23, 2006, 12:41:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy


Think "Johnny Quest" except 20 years later, Johnny has grown up and lives in the shadow of his supergenius adventurer father.


actually, Johnny Quest makes an appearence in the series. he lives at the bottom of the sea and is completely insane and addicted to various drugs and pain medications.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Saintaw on August 23, 2006, 12:43:48 AM
I remember growing up with this (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue80/anime.html)

(http://rmeg.free.fr/static/Anime/cobra/cobra1.jpg)

It was pretty cool, and had a lot of what life is about explained to me :)
Title: Re: Re: Re: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 12:46:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I think he was referring to the artistry.

A point which I would have to agree.

Todays cartoons look as if they were drawn by a 5th grader

then again. upon thinking about it maybe not

I remember my friends doing  BETTER artwork then you see even on the Simpsons/ Family guy back in the 5th grade.



I think US already gave up on 2D animation, i wonder if we should even count CGI movies like SHREK as cartoons because that's the only area where US animation are thriving.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Vudak on August 23, 2006, 12:52:36 AM
What about the comic strip cartoons?  They're even worse...  Ever since Calvin & Hobbes stopped there really isn't much to look at...

Think of Garfield.  Take the very best Sunday strip of it ever made.  It looks like crap in comparison to an average Calvin & Hobbes Sunday strip, AND, the Garfield one is basically assembly-line junk.  Calvin & Hobbes was a one man show.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: rpm on August 23, 2006, 12:52:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SMIDSY
actually, Johnny Quest makes an appearence in the series. he lives at the bottom of the sea and is completely insane and addicted to various drugs and pain medications.
Race Bannon made an earlier appearance as well. There was a parody of Haji in the season opener.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 01:55:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Straffo...not bad.  :aok


Some of the cartoon networks are becoming dominated by some of the crappiest, low-end Japanese anime ever conceived.  The freeze-frame variety.  What is the fascination with that bilge?


Japan produces more cartoons per capita than US and Europe right now but get this... 90% of them are CRAP.  You gotta hunt down the other 10% because chances are the 10% are great titles.  Macross/Robotech, Ranma 1/2, Lupin III, and Welcome to the NHK happen to be in the other 10%.


(i'm bored, im gonna post some of THE best cartoons i've seen )

Robotech / Macross
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Sdfmacross.JPG)(http://members.tripod.com/~dw09/anime/macross/mac008.jpg)

(http://www.impawards.com/1981/posters/heavy_metal.jpg)

Lupin III
(http://www.cinemastrikesback.com/news/films/lupin/lupin.jpg)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0002IQK7M.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1090865088_.jpg)

Ranma 1/2
(a transgender-bender martial-artist:D)
(http://www.wot-club.org.uk/RanmaFAQ/scans/MBook/cover_l.jpg)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: APDrone on August 23, 2006, 02:18:11 AM
I have to go with Shuckins on this.

Animation in USA died in the 70s.  One of the truly enjoyable ( albeit subtle, until you look for it ) features of animation was the orchestral background.

The cost of employing a full orchestra as background music made such productions cost-prohibitive after the late 60s.

Not to say that today's offerings are bad, per se.  They simply do not come close to the artistic level as those of 40 years ago.

Yes, I like Adult swim and their wares ( Venture brothers, Family Guy ) and, as far as anime, Full Metal Alchemist and Ghost in the Shell are pretty darn entertaining.  

But, to be honest, they don't compare to good old bugs bunny and William Shakesphere, Coyote and Road Runner, and Elmer Fudd.  ( Kill da wabbit! ).
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 23, 2006, 02:33:57 AM
I hate cartoon network, Disney, and Nic now.  I used to love nic.  But the shows are just stupid beyond belief.    I had to put up with hearing Ed, Ed, and Eddy this morning.  Drove me crazy.  Now the only good cartoon channel is bommerang.  Can't get tired of pink panther and road runner.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 23, 2006, 02:42:39 AM
damn 1k3 what a wall of pixels you put there:D

I liked your inclusion of Macross and Ranma 1/2 (yeah that transgender-bender martial arts artist)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 02:47:07 AM
I wonder where the Looney Toons and Hana-Barbera animations go.  They used to be on rerun on Cartoon Network back in the 90s.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 23, 2006, 02:57:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by APDrone
I have to go with Shuckins on this.

Animation in USA died in the 70s.


Animation died on 10 July 1989.

(http://www.seeing-stars.com/Images/Slides/Markers/MelBlanc.JPG)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Saintaw on August 23, 2006, 04:52:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Animation died on 10 July 1989.


Bull***

the Japanese do some very good stuff

Mononoke, Porco Rosso, wings of honnemise()sp? come to mind.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Excel1 on August 23, 2006, 05:36:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Bull***

the Japanese do some very good stuff

Mononoke, Porco Rosso, wings of honnemise()sp? come to mind.


But are they as good as Clutch Cargo?

CC had cult status in NZ in the 60's and early 70's.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Saintaw on August 23, 2006, 05:53:47 AM
Never heard of it, but I'm sure there's a hentai out there that's named "Crotch cargo"... or something close.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Excel1 on August 23, 2006, 06:06:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Never heard of it, but I'm sure there's a hentai out there that's named "Crotch cargo"... or something close.
]

heh  dunno what a hentai is but I don't think they would be the same thing. Clutch Cargo might be before your time, as far as I know it hasn't been on TV here in over 30 years so I haven't exactly seen it recently either.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Nilsen on August 23, 2006, 06:16:12 AM
All "cartoons" that are not hand drawn are junk. Computer animated crap has no soul.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Eagler on August 23, 2006, 06:39:18 AM
speed racer was the beginning of the end for cartoons
at 13 I wondered who thought that japanese crap was cartoons
ultraman was j as retarded but at least it was funny
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Russian on August 23, 2006, 08:39:11 AM
Best anime ever: Ghost in the Shell. Both movies, SAC and GIG series. Nothing comes even close. (most realistic depiction of future I have seen, ever)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: lukster on August 23, 2006, 11:13:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
speed racer was the beginning of the end for cartoons
at 13 I wondered who thought that japanese crap was cartoons
ultraman was j as retarded but at least it was funny


You beat me to it. I remember my much younger sisters watching that in the late 60's and being puzzled by how they could watch and even like such crap.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Charon on August 23, 2006, 11:26:04 AM
While kids cartoons and Saturday morning television seem to be a bigger bunch of crap today, I can't say the same for prime time cartoons. The Simpsons and Futurama are two of my favorite "sitcoms" of the past decade or more. Simpsons has to be about #1.

King of the Hill is also great, and I got a kick out of Bevis and Butthead at the time.

Charon
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Masherbrum on August 23, 2006, 11:35:04 AM
The Simpsons have sucked a** for the last several years.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 12:29:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Bull***

the Japanese do some very good stuff

Mononoke, Porco Rosso, wings of honnemise()sp? come to mind.


Movies?
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: rpm on August 23, 2006, 12:38:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Excel1
But are they as good as Clutch Cargo?

CC had cult status in NZ in the 60's and early 70's.
 All I remember about Clutch Cargo was the funky lip movement and the dog's name was Paddlefoot.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Charon on August 23, 2006, 01:37:23 PM
Quote
The Simpsons have sucked a** for the last several years.


Hit or miss episodes, but more hit than miss. The celebrity episodes are the weakest, IMO. Can't really say I've seen too many hit episodes of anything else on TV, though I end up watching some mildly entertaining episodes of various sitcoms with the wife each week. 2 1/2 men, George Lopez etc. Nothing I wopuld really miss or go out of my way to see by comparison.


Charon
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Ripsnort on August 23, 2006, 02:14:11 PM
I'd like to generalize at a higher level and state "Televisions sucks".  Not only the cartoons, but the reality show-craze running rampant in America.

The only cartoon I don't mind watching is Spongebob Squarepants. :)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 02:20:07 PM
Reality-based TV shows are scripted!:D
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Dinger on August 23, 2006, 03:23:10 PM
You Looney Toons fans need to do your homework.

First, Mel Blanc was good, but he wasn't all the LT voices. June Foray did a lot of the female voices, and MB _never_ did Elmer Fudd in the originals.


Television killed the Hollywood cartoon. WB was the last to dump their studio, when they followed everyone else in figuring they could make more money licensing out their portfolio than making new works.  That pretty much happened in 1960, though they sputtered along for 2 more years. Then Friz Freleng and DePatie tried to "carry the torch" for six or seven years, with much smaller budgets (and the WB orchestra replaced by a dude with an accordion).

The Hollywood cartoon was awesome, but it was also a unique collection of talent and expense. Even though Warner Brothers didn't have the production budgets of Disney, they still spent something like $50,000 US per 6-minute cartoon. That's $50,000 in 1950 dollars.
So they had access to the studio system -- the Hollywood stars they would refer to in their shorts were actors from the same studio; the music was by the studio orchestra (Carl Stalling, WB's A-team composer until 1958, was awesome), and they had some brilliant minds inspired by the new genre, and some fast ones they could blow past the censors.
When you look at a unit that did Looney Toons/Merry Melodies (Schlesinger to WB), they cranked out at most 6 one-reelers a year; and half of those were "top-shelf" productions.

You're not going to see it again. The combination isn't right.

There's good 2d animation out there, but you don't get that kinda teamwork anymore. It's just too expensive for no market.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: APDrone on August 23, 2006, 03:46:31 PM
Thanks for the background, Dinger.

I wasn't sure of the dates. Looks like I was off by almost a decade.  I just remember watching them on Sat. morning with dad during the late 60s and, now that you mentioned it, I recall the seeing the copywrite dates in roman numerals and thinking how 1950-something was 'old'.

Glad to know my observations were in the ballpark, tho.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Speed55 on August 23, 2006, 03:48:56 PM
My favorites growing up were :
Tom and Jerry, Looney Toons, Transformers, Thundercats, Amazing Spiderman,  Voltron, Dungeons & Dragons, and this movie called Fire and Ice, that i probably watched about 100 times.  

There are probably more, but these are the ones i remember so i guess the others weren't that great.

The Simpsons is the only new cartoon i can watch and get a kick out of.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Charon on August 23, 2006, 04:17:41 PM
Quote
they still spent something like $50,000 US per 6-minute cartoon. That's $50,000 in 1950 dollars.


Wow. I knew the animation and full package were expensive, but I had no idea they were that expensive.

Charon
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 23, 2006, 08:08:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak
What about the comic strip cartoons?  They're even worse...  Ever since Calvin & Hobbes stopped there really isn't much to look at...

Think of Garfield.  Take the very best Sunday strip of it ever made.  It looks like crap in comparison to an average Calvin & Hobbes Sunday strip, AND, the Garfield one is basically assembly-line junk.  Calvin & Hobbes was a one man show.


Hey. Ya ever want a good LMAO.

Pick up a copy of some of the original 1950's "Peanuts" Cartoons from the early  pre Snoopy/Joe Cool days

Artwork wasnt spectacular. But man they sure are funny, even today
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Sixpence on August 23, 2006, 08:13:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RightF00T
Check out Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends and Danny Phantom....quality cartoon humor there.


Camp Lazlo is pretty funny


spitty!
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 08:21:57 PM
Damn Turner Network is now ruining classic Hanna-Barbera cartoons :(

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14452732/

Since when did smoking become as taboo as nudity...

I hate Turner.  Turner Network's practices (S&P) prevents more decent comedy and anime from being showed on Adult Swim... late night block of Cartoon Network.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 23, 2006, 08:59:47 PM
The problem with anime is that it's currently a niche market. People don't look into it for a variety of reasons; it's not American, the people you generally first associate with anime are the con-goers (think a trekky con only anime. Crazies everywhere. Fun, but probably not appealing to adults.), it isn't advertized here unless it's for a niche section, such as Toonami (which is now utter crap) and Adult Swim on Cartoon Network.

I generally think the newer animes brought to America are crap. They're just full of shiny retards that they think would appeal to children, but most likely lower their intelligence a couple years worth. Things from ten to fifteen years ago, such as the original Gundam, Slayers, Excel Saga, Love Hina (for the girlies...or the pervs), Trigun, and Outlaw Star are great material, though maybe not always for kiddies, depending on your parenting. The issue is that nobody has ever heard of them to check them out and if they have, they've been turned away by the general eye toward anime.

The fact that hentai (porn, only animated. Sometimes very graphically.) is thrown wildly about the internet on ad banners and in spam email doesn't help the veiw on anime, either.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 23, 2006, 09:05:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Damn Turner Network is now ruining classic Hanna-Barbera cartoons :(

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14452732/

Since when did smoking become as taboo as nudity...

I hate Turner.  Turner Network's practices (S&P) prevents more decent comedy and anime from being showed on Adult Swim... late night block of Cartoon Network.


Yea I heard that too.

Damn Shame Parents dont know how to PARENT Anymore.

Need everything sanitised for them rather then just say "You cant watch that"

thats what I did/do

Seems to work quite well
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 23, 2006, 09:07:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
The problem with anime is that it's currently a niche market. People don't look into it for a variety of reasons; it's not American,


Well dont forget the Anime we used to watch as kids
(http://homepage3.nifty.com/veryberry2/%90V%82%B5%82%A2%89%E6%91%9C/360/%97L%96%BC%90l/speed-racer-car360.jpg) :)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 23, 2006, 09:25:33 PM
Hell, I didn't even know that was anime. :D
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 23, 2006, 09:47:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Well dont forget the Anime we used to watch as kids
(http://homepage3.nifty.com/veryberry2/%90V%82%B5%82%A2%89%E6%91%9C/360/%97L%96%BC%90l/speed-racer-car360.jpg) :)


and these:)

(http://www.netsoc.ucd.ie/~chrisk/images/transformers.gif)

(http://www.comicon.com/pulse/images/robotech_comic.jpg)

(http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/juliamaynard/2004/11/23/thundercats.jpg)

(http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/RTC/RTC_001.jpg)

(http://www.op.net/~finklesk/images/dbz-gokuFly.jpg)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 23, 2006, 09:49:21 PM
DragonballZ is still modern, believe me. There are so many different series, I stopped paying attention. I think it started going the way of the shiney retards, though... :noid
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 10:05:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tikky
and these:)

(http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/juliamaynard/2004/11/23/thundercats.jpg)



IS THAT BOOZE THAT LIONEL IS HOLDING???:furious :lol
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 23, 2006, 10:27:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
DragonballZ is still modern, believe me. There are so many different series, I stopped paying attention. I think it started going the way of the shiney retards, though... :noid


Dragon Ball has a HUGE fan base and it scares me.

There's only 3 versions, original DB, DB-Z, and DBZ-GT.  The first 2 versions were very good but the latter one sucked so bad.  Dragon Ball franchise also had 10 movies.  

Dragon Ball is old and it just won't die.  The franchise still make billions of dollars from manga, DVDs, collection items, and video games. Profits from DragonballZ are higher in USA than in Japan!   They won't stop beating this dead horse unless they can no longer make a profit out of it.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Bronk on August 23, 2006, 10:44:32 PM
I like my anime a little darker.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0003JAK6C.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

To bad they haven't done more of them.



Bronk
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 23, 2006, 11:11:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Bull***

the Japanese do some very good stuff

Mononoke, Porco Rosso, wings of honnemise()sp? come to mind.


You hold "Godzilla vs Mothra" in high regard too?
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Chairboy on August 23, 2006, 11:15:10 PM
Apparently you've seen none of the animations he mentioned.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Shuckins on August 23, 2006, 11:17:18 PM
The difference between great animation and the low-end anime crap is twelve frames per second versus three per second....between faces that change expression naturally and smoothly and a face that changes expression in a jerky fashion...between a mouth that appears to actually be forming sounds and a mouth moves up and down in only two frames...or a back ground with two basic scenes that alternate back and forth several times to simulate movement or scenes that flow naturally one into another.

That's the difference between animation masterpieces of Disney, Warner Bros., 1940s Max Fleischer Superman cartoons, and Dragon Ball Z.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 11:17:36 PM
the Godzilla thing you mentioned is a Tokusatsu ("cheap camera trick effects" shows for kids), not Anime.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 11:21:17 PM
Check out "Grave of the Fireflies" and "Barefoot Gen" and you'll never see anime/animation the same way again.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 23, 2006, 11:23:07 PM
I've seen plenty.

The point I was making was the voice characterizations of Looney Toons, 80% of which were Mel Blanc's, were a big part of why WB cartoons are still great 60+ years after their creation.

Instead of a reply referring to the talent of Mel Blanc, I get a catalog of Japanese cartoons, none of which have the humor of the classic theatrical shorts.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 23, 2006, 11:24:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
the Godzilla thing you mentioned is a Tokusatsu ("cheap camera trick effects" shows for kids), not Anime.


No s***?
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: rpm on August 23, 2006, 11:30:32 PM
The best animation I've ever seen is the original B&W Popeye cartoons. They were 3-D. I'm still amazed by them.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Shuckins on August 23, 2006, 11:34:17 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhh...Join up with me so joyous and free,
Away to old Sherwood High..
For I'm Robin Hood, and I'm very good
at avoiding the Sheriff's eye.
So we'll trip along merrily, o'er the greensward
so gracefully...
To trippin, trippin, trippin, trippin, trippin up and downnnn...
To trippin, trippin, trippin, trip...trip...tripbit...oops. ..trippin...trip....trippin



So trippin UPPP AANNDD DDOOWWNNNNNNNN!


_______________

Now then fatso, watch, as I put a cloth-yard shaft through his wishbone.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 23, 2006, 11:39:56 PM
No doubt that Mel Blanc is very talented.  His death does not mean he took down US animation to the grave too.  US animation is alive and well and are the pioneer and leader of CG animation.  Look at the stuff that Pixar and Disney is doing with the CG stuff right now.  They may be creating movies by using computer graphics but technically that's still animation.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 23, 2006, 11:50:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I've seen plenty.


admit it, anime pwns!:aok
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 23, 2006, 11:55:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tikky
admit it, anime pwns!:aok


Doesn't come up to Foghorn Leghorn standards.... sorry.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Saintaw on August 24, 2006, 12:24:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You hold "Godzilla vs Mothra" in high regard too?


Whatch the ones I noted and STFU old man.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 24, 2006, 12:24:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Doesn't come up to Foghorn Leghorn standards.... sorry.


Man i used to see him on Cartoon Network but sadly they removed it on their lineup, along with other Looney and Hanna-Barberra Toons.  BAD move Turner Network!
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 12:32:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Instead of a reply referring to the talent of Mel Blanc, I get a catalog of Japanese cartoons, none of which have the humor of the classic theatrical shorts.


I'm still trying to find where anybody said they were replying to you. This post wasn't started by you and is discussing animation in general, not simply your personal preferences.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 24, 2006, 12:35:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Whatch the ones I noted and STFU old man.


I've seen Porco Rosso.   At least with Sky Captain and the WOT I got to see some of Angelina Jolie.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 24, 2006, 12:40:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
The problem with anime is that it's currently a niche market. People don't look into it for a variety of reasons; it's not American


Nah, the main problem is they're not promoting the material aggresively enough in the US.  You may have never head of Ranma 1/2 but Ranma has a HUGE fan base (yeah mostly made up of Japanese, Europeans, and even Mexicans and loyal fans in States:D).  Heh I only heard of that show when I went to Mexico and saw it on Spanish Cartoon Network at midnight.  My 3rd grade Spanish skills was enough to understand why this show is downright funny, hillarious, and titillating:D
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 24, 2006, 12:41:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
I'm still trying to find where anybody said they were replying to you.  


32 and 33rd post of the thread.

Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
This post wasn't started by you and is discussing animation in general, not simply your personal preferences.


Sorry.... I thought Shukins posted a personal preference,

Quote
From the very first post (Shuckins)
Modern cartoons are teh suck.


and I was just following his lead.  Mea Culpa.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 12:42:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
You may have never head of Ranma 1/2 but Ranma has a HUGE fan base (yeah mostly made up of Japanese, Europeans, and even Mexicans and loyal fans in States:D).


No, believe me. The girlfriend and he clic of friends is really into the stuff. My best internet friend in Virginia has a room full of it. I have complete Slayers, Trigun, and Outlaw Star collections, plus a Gundam movie that I thought was something different when I bought it.

You mention one of the "good" animes, I've probably at least heard of it and know the basic story. ;)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 12:46:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
32 and 33rd post of the thread.


Well hell, I had skipped that. Was going off of 1K3's post.

Apologies.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 24, 2006, 12:58:40 AM
let me analyze...

Things got spiced up a little when we almost ignored Mel Blanc's contributions to the world of animation in this thread.  To add fuel on fire... someone tried to elevate masterpieces such as Porco Rosso and Mononoke Hime to that of Godzilla parodies:D
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 24, 2006, 02:16:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by tikky
admit it, anime pwns!:aok
(http://www.printfree.com/Signs/02Signs/QuietPlease.jpg)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 24, 2006, 02:17:19 AM
parodies???:eek:
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 24, 2006, 02:43:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
parodies???:eek:


just kidding:D

but c'mon once you've seen Porco Rosco and Princes Mononoke you'll see the reason why these masterpieces are 1000x better than Godzilla movies:D
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 24, 2006, 02:44:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
No, believe me. The girlfriend and he clic of friends is really into the stuff. My best internet friend in Virginia has a room full of it. I have complete Slayers, Trigun, and Outlaw Star collections, plus a Gundam movie that I thought was something different when I bought it.

You mention one of the "good" animes, I've probably at least heard of it and know the basic story. ;)


I highly recomend Ranma on your collection.  THE funiest i've seen for an anime.  The characters and the characterisations are interesting (bolded and italicized for emphasis:D)  I saw Ranma 1/2 this year and Ranma was the first anime i've seen (i saw the spanish version in mexico lol).  After watching it made me understand why people love anime and why anime has such huge loyal fanbase around the world.  When you see the pilot episode you'll see why the creator put 1/2 after the name:D
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 05:47:55 AM
I saw the pilot on YouTube. I don't get it. :D

It's in the line up. A 15 (16) year old lazy arse that plays AH has to prioritize!
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: TracerX on August 24, 2006, 05:58:36 PM
Does Jimmy Neutron count as a modern cartoon?  It is by far the best I have seen, and as good as any of the old stuff.  It is smart and entertaining, with great caracters.  It is the only cartoon I don't mind my kids watching besides the old stuff.  Oh, also Rollie-Pollie-Ollie, but that is for the real young kids.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 06:05:26 PM
I almost shoot myself every time I go past Jimmy.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Chairboy on August 24, 2006, 06:21:35 PM
Dexter's Laboratory and Samurai Jack are two fantastic modern cartoons.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 06:22:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Samurai Jack


:aok
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: nirvana on August 24, 2006, 07:02:46 PM
I heard China actually cancelled programs such as The Simpsons, PokeMon, and another foreign cartoon (family guy maybe) during prime time because their cartoon industry is faultering.  Thus forcing children to either watch chinese made cartoons ORRRR go do something else, watch a movie for a few hours perhaps.  After they spent all that money on their cartoon industry hardly anyone will watch it, so they have to try and force it upon them.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 24, 2006, 07:57:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
I like my anime a little darker.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0003JAK6C.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

To bad they haven't done more of them.


What is that?
IT has perked my interest


Bronk
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 08:01:19 PM
For Dred (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserk_%28manga%29)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Bluedog on August 24, 2006, 08:04:13 PM
Why do so many Japanime characters have freakin' HUGE ,  round, caucasian looking eyes?:O
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 24, 2006, 08:06:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
For Dred (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserk_%28manga%29)


pseudo Gorean style?
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 08:07:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bluedog
Why do so many Japanime characters have freakin' HUGE ,  round, caucasian looking eyes?:O


It's part of the drawing style and culture.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2006, 08:09:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
pseudo Gorean style?


No idea. Girlfriend recognised it from our public library. Apparently the very first page of the manga series is a guy raping a girl, who turns into a monster and tries to kill him.

Surprisingly, not my style of read.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 24, 2006, 11:57:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bluedog
Why do so many Japanime characters have freakin' HUGE ,  round, caucasian looking eyes?:O


Dunno, but i think it's something anime artists do when they create cute characters.

The Berzerk that was mentioned earlier has a different style
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Bronk on August 25, 2006, 01:11:11 AM
Berserk does get a little strange toward the end of the DVD collection. It Introduces demons and such.  People either like it or they hate it.

Another anime classic IMHO.

(http://www.copicmarker.com/shop/images/GhostintheShell.jpg)

The early combination artists and computer animation.

Wiki link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_shell





Bronk
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: bkbandit on August 25, 2006, 01:35:42 AM
i dont noe, i really dont like the average cartoon on tv now. I grow up in the 90s and i remember transformers and GI JOE. I was watching it the other day, i love how they land the f14 in the middle of the woods and take off like nothin:lol .

Adult swim is great, but the show arent meant for kids aswell as shos like family guy and maybe the simpsons(i have seen EVERY episode). Too many political and adult jokes that would go right over kids heads. I miss when bart had the water ballon fight with nelson. Shows like moral orel push the limits, last episode was about doin "number 3" very funny but i spent the whole 13 minutes with my mouth hanging open in disbelief. Yes u hav to push it alittle but u have to noe when enough is enough, watch that episode and we will see what im saying.

As far as jap cartoons, yes alot of them are crap, but somethin like samuri champloo will come out, or something like ghost in a shell which was a thick story line.

Look at tv all together, look at the 90s and now. Somethin like wild boys wouldnt even make it through the door of a studio, its a funny show(i can watch steve-o throw up all day) but a 9 year old really shouldnt be watchin 2 guys hump donkeys or eat elephant crap.

just my 2 cents.

go team venture

and GO JOE
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 25, 2006, 01:41:34 AM
Ghost in the Shell, Stand Alone Complex, and Second Gig are all on my list of wants as well.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 25, 2006, 01:35:48 PM
I heard there's gonna be a GiTS Movie this fall (Solid State Society).  Bandai warns Fansubbers not to sub this movie and distribute them online or they'll face legal action (dang... no preview for me!)

If i got money to burn i'll buy GiTS, Macross, and Ranma1/2
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 25, 2006, 01:55:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
If i got money to burn i'll buy GiTS, Macross, and Ranma1/2


Exactly. Quit copying me, ya dweeb. :D
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Dinger on August 25, 2006, 02:42:02 PM
CG 3D animation is a completely different beast from 2D, and modern TV/Film 2D animation is completely different from the "Classic Hollywood Cartoon".


Here's how it worked back in the old days -- I use Looney Toons as the point of reference:
yes, you had a storyboard and dialog.
The image consisted of a background and at most four cels. A cel is a transparent piece of celluloid on which an animation element can take place. So every movement has to be plotted and budgeted. For reasons that should be obvious, you generally want only one "motion" per cel. So, for instance, you could have a background, then one cel with the character(s) (say Bugs and Daffy -- which only happens something like 6 times), then two cels for the parts that are actually "moving" at any moment. The Disney "screen in motion" effects are _very_ expensive.
Anyway, the timing is done by plotting extreme positions (for example, hand by the side to hand pointing at something), and the interval between them. For much of a Looney Toons cartoon, the pace between extreme positions is 6 frames (or four beats a second). When things pick up, the pace will go to 5 and then 4 frames.
The Animators draw the extreme positions, and their subordinates, the "Tweeners", do the in-between positions.
With regards to the music, composer Carl Stalling, who worked with Disney in the '30s, then came to Looney Toons in 38/39, developed a system where he would take the studio orchestra (permanent orchestra that did all the studio's products), and make them play to a giant metronome-like device that followed the beats of the extreme positions. Basically, he composed the music to the beat of the extreme positions of the animations (after all, cartoons arose as animation set to music).
This meant that everything -- even the dialog -- was planned down at the frame level. It also explains why the products are masterpieces of comic timing, and won't ever be repeated or surpassed in their genre.
There's nothing wrong with being impassioned by other forms of animation; but for me, when I see a Looney Toon, or something Tex Avery did with MGM, I'm blown away by how much attention to detail went in, and how easy it is to ignore that attention and just laugh my bellybutton off.

By the way, what's the deal with the single frame Budweiser can in the missile flyby in the Robotech Movie? I always wanted to know.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 25, 2006, 02:51:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
If i got money to burn i'll buy GiTS, Macross, and Ranma1/2


LOL animes are expensive as hell, might as well download or watch from youtube.

For example saw Trigun @ Fry's Electronics and it costs $125, that's only 24 episodes!  I'll preview this on youtube before i decide if it's worth to buy it.

And the Ranma 1/2 (which i also happen to like and own) costs $122.  There are seven seasons + OAVs ($99).  That means $122 x 7 seasons + OAV = almost $1k:eek:
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 25, 2006, 02:58:53 PM
Dude, you need better connections. Anime nerds get stuff cheap. :lol

Especially if you have a friend that never stops going to Japan... :noid
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: tikky on August 25, 2006, 05:59:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
Dude, you need better connections. Anime nerds get stuff cheap. :lol

Especially if you have a friend that never stops going to Japan... :noid


I suspect that any anime that cost less than $100 is a bootleg!
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: OOZ662 on August 25, 2006, 06:03:41 PM
Nah, I got all wrapped box sets from the manufacturer. I suspected one was a bootlet as the second CD was scratched so bad it was beyond use. We sent it back for replacement and never heard from them again. Amazon refunded us. Mom had bought it; that's why it was from Amazon. I get mine from other places.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: Russian on August 25, 2006, 06:54:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
I heard there's gonna be a GiTS Movie this fall (Solid State Society).  Bandai warns Fansubbers not to sub this movie and distribute them online or they'll face legal action



people make subs before it is released in US. Once it does, most servers remove now 'illegal' version.
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 26, 2006, 03:25:04 AM
I agree timeless classics such as Looney, Disney, and MGM works will never be repeated again.  This is something that anime does not have yet (unless you consider Speed Racer a timeless classic:D)
Title: Cartoon Smackdown
Post by: 1K3 on August 26, 2006, 03:26:19 AM
Any anime DVDs with Region-0 encoding (Region free), mispelled subtitled words, and awkward Eng sentence structure is sure a boootleg.

I'm forced to buy Region-0 of Macross Zero because it's not licensed here in the US.