Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: stephen on August 23, 2006, 12:54:38 PM
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Try as I might I just cant seem to haul that big bird around in the vertical the way ive seen other guys do it, or I just get cut to ribbons in turns, or auger it in a steep dive, or try a hi speed turn onto somones six and spin out into this monster stall of death...
I started out in 190D9 and had similar problems controling it, eventualy though I learnd to fly it pretty well, but that darn 38 eludes me.
I guess what im asking is what is so bloody special about that plane?
ive trucked bombs in it but otherwise I just havent found it to be all that great, im gonna concentrate on it for a while and see if I can do any better than the few times ive tried before. Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
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Whats special centers around the contrarotating propellers and the resulting lack of torque. That gives the bird remarkably stable low speed flight characteristics, especilly near the edge of a stall.
It also has a VERY tight gun package, which means the bullets remain well grouped together at most any range.
Those who know how to use it can take advantage of those features to hang on the prop for shots, to rope unsuspecting pilots out of their flight envelope, and to generally create mahem.
It is not an easy ride to learn, and it does not fare well if you use it wrong. If you want to learn it, seek out trainers, especially Silat and Murdr (who use the 38 as their main ride much of the time). Or, spend some time with one of the dedicated p38 squadrons (the 80th fighter squadron and the 475th come to mind).
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This might be something you already do, but while in flight turn combat trim OFF. This is true in the 38, ki84, and a couple of other planes. It severely limits your ability to pull up. Ki84 can barely black out with combat trim on, because it's trying to level out all the time.
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I am the worst P38 pilot in AH, but here goes...
Use pedals... they will nicely increase your roll rate (use ailerons too) and if you can do it fast enough, you can dodge most high speed slashing attacks. The P38 is a big bird, but only when viewed from above or below, from the side its profile is very small and much smaller than other single engined fighters.
But the real goal is to shoot down the other guy, not to dodge his attacks.
Spinning in the 38 often occurs from asymetrical power on one engine (ie someone kills one of your engines at the top of a loop) or pulling too much G, you can often overcome any 'wing dip' with the P38 with pedals as long as you are careful not to overcompensate and worsening the stall/spin in the opposite direction.
I'd be willing to work with ya sometime, if you want it.
Remember, the P38 is an easy plane to fly but is difficult to master.
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Pffft... Pedals schmedals.
Mouse and keyboard all I need.
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I fly it like a bloated spit and i usually come out on top with 30 guys above me ready to pounce.
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The only thing I like about the 38 is that when I lose one engine, I still have the other. I guess this is useful because I always lose my engine for some reason. However, I can also get that in my Messerschmitt. The only time I use a 38 is when another squaddie want to, or when escorting a bomber mission.
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As pointed out, don't use combat trim and keep the elevators trimmed to the approximate neutral position. This will allow to you make small adjustments if needed to the elevators and quickly back to neutral without any troubles.
Stall buzzer is your friend, crank the volume on that sucker to 100%. Now go offline and yank the heck out of the P-38 and listen to the pitch of the stall buzzer. The louder it gets, the closer to the edge of the envelope you are. Practice until you can get a steady loud pitch out of it without stalling out and spinning in.
Know your flaps and when to use them. General rule...
250mph - 1 flap position
200mph - 2 flap positions
175mph -125mph - 3 flap positions
125mph - below 100mph 4 flap positions
Remember, those are just a guideline and as you get used to the flaps, you'll start to get a feel as to when to deploy them and when to retract them. Do not rely on the auto-retractor to retract the flaps for you. This can lead you to not paying attention to your speed relative to the current flap setting and running the risk of over speeding causing the flap to retract at the most inconvenient possible time that can result in you getting into a rather vicious and in some cases, unrecoverable spin. Any self-respecting P-38 driver detests the auto-retractor and you should too.
The P-38 is a jack of all trades, it doesn't excell in one area but instead does well in all areas. It is an excellent ground attack platform, the L model can carry up to 2,000 pound of bombs and 10 HVAR rockets and a very stable gun platform. It is a good Energy fighter that is excellent (probably the best) vertical fighter in the game. This trait can be used to your advantage using various Energy fighting tactics like the Rope-A-Dope or basic Boom and Zoom maneuvers like the Cuban 8 or Half-Cuban. With BnZ tactics you can use the vertical to trade in your energy for altitude which then in turn gives you potential energy with which to unleash your next BnZ pass.
It is also good in the Angles Fighting department. A lot think that due to its size and weight it's not a very nimble plane but in the right hands you can make it dance all night long. This is were flaps and rudders really come to play. The flaps on the P-38 allow it to turn rather nicely and used with proper ACM maneuvers, you can work in a good angle for a firing solution. The rudders are important because they can help in doing tighter turns, so use rudder in your turns and remember the P-38 turns the tightest nose down. The vertical can also be used. The P-38 can do a sloppy loop at 100mph IAS, basically you'll stall over the top of the loop which then snaps the nose down...a stall loop. This is one way that can be used to cut corners on an enemy's turn for the angle, also Yo-Yo's, Chandelles and other turning or redirectional vertical maneuvers work well too.
Stall fighting...it's a blast to do in the P-38. Again, due to its size and weight, not many expect it to be so nimble in the stall zone. But once more, it's probably one of the better stall fighters in the game. Because of the counter rotating props, the P-38 doesn't have any torque to contend with. This is what helps it give its very gentle stall characteristic and with the use of the flaps and rudders and good throttle management, the P-38 can really hang in the stall. Never be afraid to stall fight in the P-38, against some planes like the Ki-84 and Spitfire, it might just save your life.
Some basic tips on the P-38...
In the L model, you can use the dive flaps above 300mph in high speed maneuvering. The dive flaps will cause the nose to pitch up and can be taken advantage of in high speed turn fights. Remember to retract them after you make the turn, don't leave them out. Not that it really does anything negatively but there is a small drop in energy, a very minor drop but why waste Energy when you don't need to?
Rudders are your really good friend. In high speed dives, the rudders can be used to check your speed so you don't over speed and run the risk of compressability if diving from high altitudes. Rudders, as already noted, will help in making better and tighter turns.
The G model is the more nimble of the lot. It is also the slowest of the three P-38 models, doesn't carry drop tanks to extend its range nor does it have WEP. It can carry 2,000 pounds of bombs and 6x 5 inch bazooka rockets.
The J model is the pretty much like the L model but without the boosted ailerons and dive flaps. The J model does have WEP and can carry drop tanks to extend its range. Its speed is close to that of the L model and at some altitudes, slightly faster than the L model. Like the G model, it can carry 2,000 pounds of bombs and 6x 5 inch bazooka rockets. Maneuvers slightly better than the L model below 15,000 feet.
The L is the best of the lot. It has boosted ailerons, dive flaps and can carry 2,000 pounds of bombs and 10 HVAR rockets.
When selecting your load out, always take the full gun package...no sense taking the lighter gun package...2000 rounds is better than 800 rounds any day.
I'm sure more will come in and add their 2 pesos worth. have fun in the Lightning, it's a great and very fun plane to fly.
ack-ack
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Captain Obvious on the P-38:
Originally posted by Reynolds
The only thing I like about the 38 is that when I lose one engine, I still have the other.
:aok
My regards,
Widewing
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After I come out of a dive I pull up and usually a Spit16 will just nose up and start catching and sometimes knocking off some parts before i can react and I had just come out of 450pmh dive.
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dang ack ack. has anyone ever shot you down in that 38?
:aok
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Only if I let them =)
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The G model is the more nimble of the lot. It is also the slowest of the three P-38 models, doesn't carry drop tanks to extend its range nor does it have WEP. It can carry 2,000 pounds of bombs and 6x 5 inch bazooka rockets.
ack-ack
Doggone late model 38 drivers never get it right! :)
38G does carry DTs.
No WEP, Slower then dirt, turns on a dime, in particular under 50% fuel. Seems to roll OK to me. Could be the lack of outer wing tanks helps unlike the longer ranged J and L that had em.
As mentioned by Del. Easy to fly, harder to master. Del is a J driver and one of the best. Raptor does wonders in the L. I think you'll find AKAK in the 479th marked J more often then not. Not as many of us G drivers, but Soulyss does well in it. KillnU was very good in it when he was flying.
It all comes down to preference I guess. You can make any of the AH 38s do the job.
I can sure tell when I've had time to fly as I can feel myself getting better in the G and I live longer. When I've been gone for a bit, I get clobbered even more then usual.
38 is a big target too. The smart 38 drivers like Del and AKAK, use the vertical a lot more and don't get caught low and slow like us not so smart 38 drivers :)
I tend to get down in the weeds turn fighting with the G more often then not. I figure if I die, it's that much closer to the ground. Most of the guys I fly with are apt to end up there in 38s too including Del. He just lives longer :)
Prettiest sight in the AH world for me is a flight of 38s out on the prowl.
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AckAck, I believe the G does have a DT, but just one (not dual DTs). I seem to recall taking one up with an asymmetrical DT in AH.
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Originally posted by Krusty
AckAck, I believe the G does have a DT, but just one (not dual DTs). I seem to recall taking one up with an asymmetrical DT in AH.
I can tell you gents never fly the G :) Two DTs is possible. It was the F model that had the DTs from the start. E models in the Aluetians were upgraded to carry them too. Gs were just fine for DTs
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G carries the same ord loadout as the J gentlemen- including the 6 "Bazooka Tubes" along the center pod. :) Both G and J carry the same bomb and DT combos.
Only real range difference between the models is from the leading-edge tanks the J and L carry. The G doesn't have them, at that point in the Lightnings development the leading edge was occupied by the intercoolers. When these were relocated to the chin scoops on the J (which resulted in the deeper chin on the J and L) the space was filled with a new fuel tank, starting with the J-15 I think. The Js with that modification carry a prominent "+" in the date block under the cockpit.
Thats why the P-38F "Glacier Girl" doesn't have fuel filler caps on the outer wings while the surviving Js and Ls do.
(http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Aircraft/Fighters/P38s.jpg)