Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FUNKED1 on August 25, 2006, 11:46:54 AM
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Hell in a Very Small Place: The Siege of Dien Bien Phu (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030681157X/sr=8-1/qid=1156524304/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1584754-0992125?ie=UTF8)
These guys put it all on the line to fight communist aggression, while America sat back and watched.
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I thought you were leaving? :)
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Nope, just posting less. I won't have time to refute every neoconanderthal screed, so I have to pick my battles.
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I think it's rather funny that Funked thinks that the French were fighting the communists, as opposed to getting their tulips kicked out of the french colonies in vietnam.
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~Touche~
Mac
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Hell in a Very Small Place: The Siege of Dien Bien Phu (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030681157X/sr=8-1/qid=1156524304/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1584754-0992125?ie=UTF8)
These guys put it all on the line to fight communist aggression, while America sat back and watched.
Book Description
"The definitive account" (Saturday Review) of the battle that paved the way for American involvement in Vietnam.
The 1954 battle of Dien Bien Phu ranks with Stalingrad and Tet for what it ended (imperial ambitions), what it foretold (American involvement), and what it symbolized: A guerrilla force of Viet Minh destroyed a technologically superior French army, convincing the Viet Minh that similar tactics might prevail in battle with the U.S.
Interesting read....
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I think it's rather funny that Funked thinks that the French were fighting the communists, as opposed to getting their tulips kicked out of the french colonies in vietnam.
Beat me to it.
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I think it's rather funny that when the French fought them they were fighting a "colonial war" but when Americans fought the same exact enemy they were "fighting communism". Please.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I think it's rather funny that when the French fought them they were fighting a "colonial war" but when Americans fought the same exact enemy they were "fighting communism". Please.
The french were fighting whoever resisted (just happedned to be the communist at the stage where they lost) to maintain their grip on their colonies which included Laos and Cambodia. The US had no colonial interests and were fighting only to prevent communist domination in the area.
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Spin it however you want, but the fact is that France fought Indochina communism earlier, and with much greater committment, than America did.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Spin it however you want, but the fact is that France fought Indochina communism earlier, and with much greater committment, than America did.
Bottom line, we both lost to communism in Vietnam. However, the US did go on to whip the USSR. What did France do after 1954?
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Originally posted by lukster
The french were fighting whoever resisted (just happedned to be the communist at the stage where they lost) to maintain their grip on their colonies which included Laos and Cambodia. The US had no colonial interests and were fighting only to prevent communist domination in the area.
You mean we were fighting some "comunistes Indochinois" when you were fighting "vietnameses comunists" ?
hmmm I must agree it's a huge difference :D
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Originally posted by straffo
You mean we were fighting some "comunistes Indochinois" when you were fighting "vitenameses comunists" ?
hmmm I must agree it's a huge difference :D
The difference was in the reason for fighting. One might argue that if not for French colonialism in that region the communists would never have gained a foothold.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/21/newsid_3894000/3894175.stm
"The Viet Minh was formed in 1941 as a nationalist party whose main aim was to free Vietnam from French control. Its Communist leader, Ho Chi Minh, declared Vietnamese independence on 2 September 1945."
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Ok I'll Play.
First are you claiming that France lost Because America did not come to their Aid?
Bzzzttt America had already contributed more money and equipment than the French ... just because the French used it badly is not our fault.
Why should we bail them out again? We should have backed Ho in '46 and thrown those losers out then ... Would have saved everyone a lot of lives.
IIRC (this is just from memory, I didn't look it up to be sure) Of the 16 Battalions at Diem Bien Phu only ONE was regular French the rest were Foreign Legion or Colonial troops. Perhaps if the French tried to fight their own battles ... oh wait. ;)
Hell in a Very Small Place: The Siege of Diem Bien Phu was an excellent book, as was Street Without Joy ... perhaps a bit biased, but excellent never the less.
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more good reading
Len Deighton
Blitzkrieg: From the Rise of Hitler to the Fall of Dunkirk, 1979
Blood, Tears and Folly: An Objective Look at World War II, 1993
Fighter: The True Story of the Battle of Britain, 1977
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SO much attention for a country you continue to say is clueless and, above all, worthless.
If we are so unimportant just be indifferent!
You're playing the misled husband against his guilty wife... Pathetic ;)
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I'd agree qith Quaibe, if the French suck so much, why fail to notice them? You have to have someone to bash or else you go into seizure?
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The French were almost universally despised by the people of Indo-China because of their land greed, their tendency to relegate the local populace to second class citizenship, and their Gallic arrogance.
The First Indo-China War began in 1946 when the French tried to reclaim their old colonial holdings in Southeast Asia. The war against the French was, at first, largely an insurgency fought in the northern one-third of the country. When the Communist Chinese extended their control to the northern borders of Vietnam in 1949, they began pouring supplies and Russian military equipment across the border to the North Vietnamese. The conflict quickly escalated into a full fledged war between two combatant armies largely on a par in terms of equipment.
The United States supported the French effort with money and equipment. The French Army in Indo-China was equipped largely with surplus American military equipment left over from WW II, at least in the early years: Corsairs, Bearcats, P-38s, M-1 Garands, etc. By 1954 the United States was bearing 80% of the cost of the war effort. After the debacle at Dien Bien Phu, the U.S., at the request of the government of South Vietnam, began to shoulder the physical burden of the conflict; first with military advisors, and then with men and materiel.
The only time the French fought in this war without substantial American help was in the first few years of the conflict. It is doubtful that the faltering government of the Fourth Republic could have sustained the struggle as long as they did without the massive influx of arms and materiel from the United States.
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This should not have started in the manner it was started.