Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Jochen on February 15, 2001, 03:14:00 AM
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Yep, this was announced in their new website and it should be reliable info. I see a bloody pricing war ahead!
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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give me a link
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Try www.wwiionline.com (http://www.wwiionline.com).
Their new site is bit of a toejame in my opinion, nothing seems to work as it should. Quite hard to avoid feeling it was done in great hurry.
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
[This message has been edited by Jochen (edited 02-15-2001).]
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WWII Online At EBWorld -2/11/2001-
I'm sure many people have seen this already, but for those that haven't, EBWorld.com is taking pre-orders for World War II Online. The listed price is $39.99 and the shipping date is June 1, 2001.
quoted from http://www.hq.wwiionline.com/ (http://www.hq.wwiionline.com/)
How much will it cost?
The retail boxed game will be available for purchase at retail outlets and online stores. The price for the retail package has not been announced. Subscriptions for online play will be available exclusively at Playnet.com for a monthly fee of $9.99 USD. In addition to groundbreaking player services, game patches and technical support your subscription will entitle you to a FREE upgrade to add the naval ships and weapons of both the Allies and Axis forces of 1940.
quoted from http://www.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/index.jsp (http://www.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/index.jsp)
then click on their faq for more info.
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Pray not for an end to the slaughter...but for VICTORY!!!
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You guys are just asking to get this thread moved, aren't ya? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Nah, there has been many pricing threads in past and I think this is no different.
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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Well. Hmmmm. Jochen, ever play MMP games on The Zone or Gamestorm? If not then I could really only highly recomnend you do so for a month or two to get a taste of what it is like before waving that $10/mo flag around as some kind of prize.
-Westy
p.s. it only means to me, that I could still have my fun here and got to WWII Online as a side dish when I need the taste for something different every now and then each month. Kind of like eating out at a nice restautant all the time but occasionally popping thru a drive-thru for a quickie meal (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-15-2001).]
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oops sorry was just adding some info to this thread ...its was about 5:15am here and wasn't really aware what forum this was in..
that said I'll have to agree with westy on this just look at wwiiol forum to get an idea of what type of community you'll be walking into. But I'll try to keep "an opened mind"...
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Pray not for an end to the slaughter...but for VICTORY!!!
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Wetsy, I already know what kind of folks that low price tag will draw... Even AH feels like kindergarten sometimes when I compare it to WB few years back. High price has its benefits too, if nothing else, folks tend to be more mature which is the way I like it. Pilots don't play 2$ per hour just so they could piss off others.
But point is, both IEN and HTC are forced to rethink their pricing soon after WWIIOL becomes reality. I think AW is practically dead already.
In my opinion WWIIOL will be technically better than either WB or AH, if they can implement all the stuff they have promised. So, they would have propably the best engine, sea and ground war and lowest pricing, only thing that is against them is relative lack of interest towards blitzkrieg if you compare it to late war which is offered by AH and WB.
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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Westy I've been in Zone playing RS but I can't see what's your point this time ?
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In my opinion WWIIOL will be technically better than either WB or AH, if they can implement all the stuff they have promised.
That's the biggest 'if' in online gaming today.
June 1st 2001? I really doubt we'll get anything more than a basic game for our money.
I just hope it isn't going to be quake with both water and aeroplane wings.
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Wetsy, I already know what kind of folks that low price tag will draw... Even AH feels like kindergarten sometimes when I compare it to WB few years back. High price has its benefits too, if nothing else, folks tend to be more mature which is the way I like it. Pilots don't play 2$ per hour just so they could piss off others.
But point is, both IEN and HTC are forced to rethink their pricing soon after WWIIOL becomes reality. I think AW is practically dead already.
In my opinion WWIIOL will be technically better than either WB or AH, if they can implement all the stuff they have promised. So, they would have propably the best engine, sea and ground war and lowest pricing, only thing that is against them is relative lack of interest towards blitzkrieg if you compare it to late war which is offered by AH and WB.
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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Remember in the priceing war guys that they have stated that WWIIOL WILL NOT be a free download!
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NOV 2001 release, then add Falcon 4.0 bug timeframe fix experience period till its smooth and stable, as in complete online playable.
Man, the graphics will be so dated.
Cool idea though.
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Lets just wait and see what happens (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I don't think it pays to be either optimistic or pessimistic about WWIIonline.
On the one hand you have a sim that will have to be populated by hundreds, if not thousands of players in order to flesh out the full war concept of the game. It will necessitate the lowering of the price tag to get that many people on at once.
On the other hand this means that the game will stand with open arms welcoming every type of player that will walk through the door. This means you will see every type of "gaming the game" trick you ever conceived, and more. There won't be any other way, as I seriously doubt there would be - what is the limit, 2,000 players at once? - 2,000 ultra or even moderately serious players online simultaneously.
This is the part that is so laughable to me when I hear guys come here and talk about how cool WWIIonline will be, especially when it comes to the hardcore guys. By virtue of being forced to draw so many people to make it work, it can't work the way the hardcore want it to. The people simply won't be drawn to that type of play en masse IMHO. But hey, I could be wrong. I would entreat you all to envision a typical night in the MA for us, and you see we can't even get 200 people to "play realistically".
Finally, if WWIIonline sticks to the ultra crowd, it likely will be a ghost town beyond Lazs's worst nightmare. Sure, the plane guys might find each other, they might not. The ground troops might find a fight, maybe they won't. It had better be a small world in that case, because I can see hours and hours of hide-and-seek if this sim stays true to the hardcore simmers dreams. If it doesn't stay hardcore, well, it will just be a bigger MA arena.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
That's the biggest 'if' in online gaming today.
June 1st 2001? I really doubt we'll get anything more than a basic game for our money.
You got that right.
I just hope it isn't going to be quake with both water and aeroplane wings.
From what I've gathered they're trying to pull off (everying ever built during WW2 is available) it will be.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was
Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/delta6.jpg)
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Wetsy, I already know what kind of folks that low price tag will draw... Even AH feels like kindergarten sometimes when I compare it to WB few years back. High price has its benefits too, if nothing else, folks tend to be more mature which is the way I like it. Pilots don't play 2$ per hour just so they could piss off others.
But point is, both IEN and HTC are forced to rethink their pricing soon after WWIIOL becomes reality. I think AW is practically dead already.
In my opinion WWIIOL will be technically better than either WB or AH, if they can implement all the stuff they have promised. So, they would have propably the best engine, sea and ground war and lowest pricing, only thing that is against them is relative lack of interest towards blitzkrieg if you compare it to late war which is offered by AH and WB.
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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Originally posted by flakbait:
From what I've gathered they're trying to pull off (everying ever built during WW2 is available) it will be.
Please enlighten us Flakbait, or Delta6 or .....
Just WHAT have you gathered that leads you to this conclusion?
Personally, ANYTHING which has more than the current 18-20 online in my timezone is sounding pretty good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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Originally posted by Ghosth:
Remember in the priceing war guys that they have stated that WWIIOL WILL NOT be a free download!
Absolutely right Ghosth. You could play AH for almost a month and a half for what they will be charging for the retail release of WW2OL!
Of course, after 2 months it would be cheaper to fly WW2OL than AH.
Interesting times ahead (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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On the one hand you have a sim that will have to be populated by hundreds, if not thousands of players in order to flesh out the full war concept of the game. It will necessitate the lowering of the price tag to get that many people on at once.
Does AH have thousands of players to flesh out the air, sea and ground concept? No. We barely have 200 peaople online at the time, still air, sea and land battles occur and they are fun.
And think about this: AH is concentrated mainly on air warfare which is hardest part of those three. We have mostly pilots since it is hard to imagine anyone to sign up for tanks or ships only.
WWIIOL on the other hand treats every player in similar value, regardless if their preference is air, ground or sea. This expands possible player base immensely.
By virtue of being forced to draw so many people to make it work, it can't work the way the hardcore want it to. The people simply won't be drawn to that type of play en masse IMHO. But hey, I could be wrong. I would entreat you all to envision a typical night in the MA for us, and you see we can't even get 200 people to "play realistically".
Hah! Are you comparing arena with historical sides and units to our MA? Of course pilots in MA fly what they want and how they want, it is free for all! But WWIIOL is completely different concept, in case you haven't noticed it. There will be limited number of good planes available so that every enemy plane wont be Spitfire I you encounter, you would see Hawk 75's and Hurricanes too.
From what I've gathered they're trying to pull off (everying ever built during WW2 is available) it will be.
Now that is what I call roadkille.
WWIIOL starts from blitzkrieg, not from late war. Plus, they have already modeled unarmed trucks for supply runs and anktitank guns to be towed.
Quite contrary what we have in AH right now, isnt it? If it is going to be a quake, shouldnt they be modeling rare uberplanes rather than early war planes? You tell me.
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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IMHO AH needs someone like MG to bash other sims.
Its a toejamty job but someones gotta do it.
Any volunteers ?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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The best thing about that announcment is that I will be able to play AH *and* WWIIOL.
Fury
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good luck if ya wanna go ww2online.(i will try it too but guess i dont expect much for that type of gameing type )
what ive been seeing so far its more like a ages of empire game with some planes haha.
nothing wrong with aoe but my guess is: this will be to much a complex game to play for some of us that is trying to have a life beside lol.
another thing is they are lying about release dates all the time, last time i botherd to check was last summer and then it should be up and running in a few months.
did a check before that too and same thing.
well i dont belive it before i see it !
remember falcon 4.0 lol 2 years late and already outdated when it was out for sale.
(good game but still outdated)
my guess is 10% will stop ah after ww2 online goes online. rest of us will stay but time will show.
airguard
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Well i'm gonna play it 10 dollar won't be much (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Also waiting on Il-2
Yep i'm gonna play them especialy when i'm tired off all those chog's and a none refined P38 model.
Why should HTC care about the P38 there only a few pilots flying it, u could better give em a new model Hog that would statisfy the mayority
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IL-2, AH, WW2OL... Damn, when am I supposed to eat and sleep? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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yippie !!!!
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WWIIOL isnt anything like AH or WB or AW or FA. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back :)
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer (http://www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer)
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Originally posted by air_guard:
what ive been seeing so far its more like a ages of empire game with some planes haha.
That is BS. Do you know about the developers background? They are some of the creators of WB and AW, so there you have what your 'quake' and 'AOE' comparisons are worth.
And also WWIIOL has potential to draw a much larger crowd than a pure flight sim, because of the naval/ground aspects.
It might fail or it might succed. I hope and belive in the latter, and in that case it'll r0Xx0R everything else out on the market.
And while the engine might seem dated, I guarantee its not. With 2km+ of visual limit on the ground with persistant buildings, trees, 64 vehicles onscreen and other objects, the game creates a new level of immersion.
Oh I sound like the CRS PR-guy, don't I? *lol*
See ya in the blitz!
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Guys,
Why complain about the price. This means I can have a sub in BOTH AH and WWIIONLINE!
I think it benefits ALL of us.
Cobra
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AH have NOW got to move to a ww2, Axis versus Allied plane set up.
Marcof
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I've been following WWIIOL for a while, thinking it will be one hell of a game. Now that I've read and seen what they plan to do, two words come to mind: "pipe dream", just like WB3.
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Lt. Col. Aaron "txace-" Giles of the 457th BG
"Fait Accompli"
In arena: semperfi
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In computer games where everything is fluid, nothing is gauranteed and things that are promised are mere words on an HTML/Java based web browser, I will take the stance of "wait and see".
It ain't worth it for me to get all upity excited when the only thing I've seen delivered so far are screenshots, movies and promises. I can't play anything yet, I don't even know what the flight model is going to be like..
I'll wait and see.
-SW
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Cool. That low of a price will just make it less painful to have both a WW2OL and an AH account active at the same time.
I'll have both, if WW2OL turns out to suck, I'll cancel it, but I have no plans to cancel my AH account.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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I saw WWIIOL at the Eurocon in November last year. In a state it was then June boxed release seems pretty optimistic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
The plans of the Rats are very ambitious to say the least. It sounds fantastic but I can't see organised warfare with infantry, artillery, tanks and planes working for 24/7. Just think about it - a plane searching for a fight is moving at 200-300 virtual mph... A tank - everyone remembers non-stop whines about 1-2 hours tank drives to get to the "front" A soldier - doesn't bear thinking about...
QIII etc servers populated by thousands every day offer instant gratification of wielding fancy weaponry and lots of "frags" per hour. Give them a rifle with 20 rounds and lots of walking and they'll laugh in your face...
I guess we'll have to see, won't we?
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Originally posted by marcof:
AH have NOW got to move to a ww2, Axis versus Allied plane set up.
Marcof
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
I like that about as much as Hangtime likes a Rolling Plane Set; I'd probably quit AH if that happened. :-)
The Warbirds boards are filled with with people complaining about that setup.
IMHO, it reduces the Holy Grail of plane choice far more than an RPS, particularly for those of us who never switch sides.
And I fail to see what is so "realistic" relative to what we have now; Sure, we won't have F4Us fighting F4Us and Spits, but we'll have Me109s and Nikis fighting on the same side in the same furball.
Two-sided wars also have serious potential play balance problems.
The answer is more large-scale formal scenarios...like Afrika Corps, and we have plenty of them in the works.
THAT'S how you compete with WWIIonline, not straight-jacketing the MA into an annoying and problematic 1 vs. 1 Axis and Allies war.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 02-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by Cobra:
Guys,
Why complain about the price. This means I can have a sub in BOTH AH and WWIIONLINE!
I think it benefits ALL of us.
Cobra
BINGO, WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
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Our MA (without the slightest touch of historical correctnes) filled with CHogs reminds me much more of Quake than anything I read and saw about WW2Online...
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Westy I've been in Zone playing RS but I can't see what's your point this time ?
Same here, never had any problems at all, but I guess if yer a 56k LOSER, you may have troubles, but thats yer sad connection, not the service.
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Originally posted by Kirin:
Our MA (without the slightest touch of historical correctnes) filled with CHogs reminds me much more of Quake than anything I read and saw about WW2Online...
Aye Kirin.
I have to say that if the flight FM is as realistic as they claim it to be (CRS has said that it will be at the Wb/AH level), I could care less if the ground fitin is like Quake3 (it isnt, they have said that the closest comparation will be Hidden$Dangerous...one bad hit and bye bye).
Quakeheads will still be rampant, sure...but...remember that you only win ranks by winning mission points. And that you lose your points for the mission flown AND any streaks you have, by dying.
Quakeheads love SCORES. And SCORES, inverse than here, DONT PAY THE QUAKE PLAYER.
Personally I cant wait to get into a Me110 or Me109 cockpit and start killing bad guys. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Personally, img more excited about Target Korea. $9.99 and you can set it up to play any way you want. Sort of 8 player, on steroids.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 02-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by Jochen:
....if they can implement all the stuff they have promised.
This one phrase kinda sums up my feelings about it. Also if their connections are anything like CFS through "the Zone" then I will have to say "No Thanks." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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It's not a pipe dream, be patient grasshoppers. That is all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I saw WWIIOL at the Eurocon in November last year. In a state it was then June boxed release seems pretty optimistic .
The game are progressed FAR from where it was in November...of that you can be sure. Will thye make June? I dunno.
The plans of the Rats are very ambitious to say the least. It sounds fantastic but I can't see organised warfare with infantry, artillery, tanks and planes working for 24/7.
The key will be how they funnel the fighting. In WB and AH, we get the planes, the map and we pretty much have to make up the rest as we go. That's fine, but what if it was done differently?
Just think about it - a plane searching for a fight is moving at 200-300 virtual mph... A tank - everyone remembers non-stop whines about 1-2 hours tank drives to get to the "front" A soldier - doesn't bear thinking about...
The obvious answer is you have to plan things out a bit differently than has been done in the past eh? That means considering different travel speeds in determining how to set up spawn points. Makes sense that designers of this type a game might consider that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
This one phrase kinda sums up my feelings about it. Also if their connections are anything like CFS through "the Zone" then I will have to say "No Thanks."
Why would their connections be anything like CFS2 on the Zone?
It isn't a peer to peer system like CFS2, it's a client/server system not unlike AH.
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Vila <Flying Pigs>
Oink! Oink! To War!
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Vila, put down those Pom Poms! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vila and Raub are on my hit list, no doubts about it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fury
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Who wants to play with a early war plane set? Yuck not me.
I have been on that site. Impressed i was not. What they promise is too good to be true.
I feel there will be big problems with bugs.
Ten dollars to play has to be good for us.
Any competition is good.
Il2 set in russia that sounds interesting.
EYE
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Well Staga and Wobble, it was not the connects on the Zone that I was refering to. It was the predominance of kindergarteners acting like kindergartners that I had a problem with. It's not a perosnal attack on anyone, unless you happen to own The Zone or you have some kind of deep seated pshychological attachment to the place. In which case <shrug> tough, I still dislike the atmosphere there as well as the "character" of the majority of "clientel" that The Zone and Gamestorm attract. They're "2 733t 4 M3 & w@y 2 kEwL!"
-Westy (guees I've developed a superiority/snob complex after all)
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AH and WB are shining examples of higher rates not equating to higher maturity levels.
Bad taste has no price.
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Jochen, my point was to illustrate that in order to populate a world as large as that described by Cornered Rat you have to have a large number of people. There has yet to be shown that number of hardcore people in any simulation to date. IMHO you are going to see people sorely disappointed if WWIIonline isn't hardcore, right?
If the game is designed to be played by , what- 2,000 people- how can it be fun with 200 on? If you distribute people even somewhat equally over the available types of play that sounds like a lot of empty space. This means that you will probably have a lot of people that are less than serious players populating the arena. Now I don't care one bit, but we seem to have WWIIonline purists here who think that somehow they are going to keep casual gamers out of it. I say no way.
Remember that fellow that came in here and pontificated on the minutae of the B-17 boost levels and derided HT for unplayable inaccuracy? He left the BBS and went to B-17II to lend his invaluable assistance. Many went with him, declaring B-17II would be the penultimate flight sim, bringing ultra realism to the genre...
...have you played B-17II? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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AH and WB are shining examples of higher rates not equating to higher maturity levels.
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When Warbirds was $2 an hour it was basically full of adults. Most respectable and behaved towards one another.
Such is not the case with AcesHigh. Too many morons are making channel one hard to bare.
Methinks when ww2ol comes out at $9, the majority of the diaper clothed snot nosers will head over there.
Fingers crossed.
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Money and age do not correlate to maturity or civilized behavior. You can speculate about the game all you want, but no matter how educated your guess, it's still just that...a guess. You won't need 1000 people online to have a good time. You also won't see people circle strafing, bunny hopping, etc. The game might attract quake types, but that doesn't mean it resembles quake play at all.
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Originally posted by Westy:
p.s. it only means to me, that I could still have my fun here and got to WWII Online as a side dish when I need the taste for something different every now and then each month. Kind of like eating out at a nice restautant all the time but occasionally popping thru a drive-thru for a quickie meal (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ditto that old Chap
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Blimey. Bit agitated aren't we? Wait and see guys, personally early war's more my sort of thing than late (Battle Of Britain and all that you see (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) so I'm certainly looking forward to it even though I'm tired and a tad cynical of the hype. What's wrong with a little healthy competition?
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"You also won't see people circle strafing, bunny hopping, etc. "
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Maybe not those behaviors specifically. What you will see are other examples of gaming-the-game as soon as the game "gamers" find the gameplay loop holes. they will find them. they will use them. You (those who think that WWII Online players will be "above" that level) need to be prepared. That's all. No ill will, no personal wish for WWII Online to be a failure. I just look at it with a skepticle and imo an objective eye. At $10/mo you can't really go wrong.
It is a game where there could be some fun but I also forsee it will also be THE place to have to endure millions of "MajorGeneral Napoleon Balo" types. There will be 100 times greater the issue seen here in that players will be accused even more of not playing right, that they're not attacking correctly, they are failing to attack the right target, even failing to attack the right target in the right way but how the hell did they dare leave my squad out that mission and "who the hell put you in charge you ignoramus!" types. MORE than you ever could of thought there would be here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
IMO, of course
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by Westy:
"You also won't see people circle strafing, bunny hopping, etc. "
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Maybe not those behaviors specifically. What you will see are other examples of gaming-the-game as soon as the game "gamers" find the gameplay loop holes. they will find them. they will use them. You (those who think that WWII Online players will be "above" that level) need to be prepared. (edited 02-15-2001).]
Oh, and we don't see that in AH? Lmao. What's your point? Every game gets gamed. Keeping the price high doesn't do anything to discourage that. I don't think the players will be above it, however, I also think that the game will not reward those who don't show at least some teamwork or purpose. Of course, that's just from what I've seen (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Just squelch all the riff raff....works here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Westy, we must have been separated at birth. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Somehow it seems if you point out the obvious, that it is highly unlikely that WWIIonline will be the panacea of all sims that it is purported to be, you are knocking it.
Hardly. You can design a game any way you like, but as long as you let people play, people will find a way to not play the way you want them to. So many here say things like "As soon as WWIIonline hits I am out of here" because they think this game is too immature. To them I suggest you take a reality pill, because the number of people necessary to fill that world means you are going to find more of the same kind of people you are leaving here to escape.
WWIIonline may be fun. It may be great. It may even surpass AH and all others in many ways. How do I know? I do know that it will have just as many immature people as we have here and elsewhere. On top of that, the lower price tag does indeed pretty much ensure that likelihood.
Raub, you are beta testing the program, that is obvious from your tone. You may be right that you will have fun in the world even if it is only sparsely populated. I think I can safely say I won't. What you enjoy and what I enjoy are likely very different. I do not want to wait 10 minutes for the next mission to start, to fly uneventful patrols escorting bombers that are never challenged, or even do a lonely recon in a ground vehicle. Maybe you or others do. I will get halfway through that exciting mission and have to bail because of something in my real life.
I don't fault anyone for being excited about the game. I think it is even ok to discuss it on this BBS. Where I think it is premature is to allude how great it is going to be to go someplace that is less "Quake-ish".
We'll see, we'll see.
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Originally posted by Westy:
It is a game where there could be some fun but I also forsee it will also be THE place to have to endure millions of "Major General Napoleon Balo" types.
[/b]
Indeed. Just look at their (now gone and replaced) BBS. 95% of the people listed themselves as "General so-and-so, Commander, XX Panzer Division." It was pretty hilarious. And half the posts were people shocked at the idea that WWIIOL wouldn't be free, and the other half whining about there not being any SS in the game.
I think things are gonna be REAL ugly for a while when several thousand people having wet dreams imagining themselves as commanders of Panzer Divisions find themselves as a sorry grunt taking orders from idiots..especially on the German side.
Given there are no American forces in their first set, and the Germans are perceived to be "cooler" than the British or French to all the KeWl D00Ds out there,, I think you'll have far more people wanting to be German than they have room for.
Me, I'll try it...I'm thinking as a French fighter pilot. I doubt there will be a clamor to fly those Hawk 75s :-).
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FWIW, how big is the world, and how many people minimum do you feel is necessary to flesh out a land/sea/air simulation? Just curious...
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Well, far be it from me to try to convince people that all this "there will be too many Quake heads/ there won't be enough action" crap is totally unfounded. I just find the whole elitist stance of "I pay more money, that makes me/my game better" to be friggin hilarious.
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Although I do believe in WWIIOL, I'm not TRYING to be a cheerleader.... just trying to to counter some of the more ridiculous arguments (about connects, realism and such) and answer some questioned.
Skepticism is reasonable and healthy, You won't find me flaming skeptics or anything like that.
Besides, I LIKE AH... after all, HTC gets my $30/mo
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Vila <Flying Pigs>
Oink! Oink! To War!
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Raub, read my posts again. I have said it will be no better than AH WRT the type of people in it and that I believe it will need a lot of people in it to be anywhere near the vision I have seen proposed, nothing more.
Flick that chip off your shoulder.
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 02-15-2001).]
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The tougher competion the better games and the lover prices.
I never was entusiastic about wwIIonline but I fullheartly wish it to be a good game.
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As a side note, someone mentioned IL2. It is being produced by Blue Byte software. BB just got bought out by Ubisoft. I don't know about yuns's, but methinks delays are in order...at least 2 weeks.
In response to the main jist of this thread, I know personally of at least 8 if not 10 guys who would gladly pay for this flight sim...If it dropped in price. All of these men are mature, squad oriented individuals ranging in age from 28 to 60. There is NO way they will triple there current OL entertainment budget, even if its the best. I want my (old)freinds back!
Liz
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All i can say is YIPPIE, I can affoard to play both. Ah with its late war planset and WW2 with its early plane set. Life is good again, im gona go now and kill some stuff and blow toejam up.
I will say though, if ww2 online models the Chog or has flackpanzers they'll no get my 10 smakeroos.
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While WW2OL looks fascinating and certainly a brave endeavour to try where others have failed at an electronic battlefield I certainly am sceptical of how WW2OL is going to find enough players to flesh out land sea and air forces. Sure I think the air war side will get filled quite well as I see alot of players from both Aces High and WW2OL trying it out, perhaps with a view to havign it as a second online game account to compliment their other chosen dedicated flight sim but what about land and sea forces?
The average FPS fan is already well catered for with FREE products to play online and while the current trend is leaning towards a more 'realistic' approach in the form of Counterstrike and its various clones and the recently released WW2 based 'Day Of Defeat' I really find it hard to imagine an FPS player being asked to yomp for miles with perhaps just a pistol and a rifle while being shot at by planes overhead and tanks on the ground, they will get bored pretty quickly IMHO. At the moment they only have to contend with other players runing around but even then there is no organisation..just try playing a specifically team based game such as Counterstrike or even Capture the Flag in one of the FPS games and people run off in many dfferent directions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Another thing I feel uneasy about is the whole command structure..will this not just be a case of rewarding players who are online the most? if thats the case then prepare to be ordered by a bunch of spotty school kids using mommies credit card (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If this is not the case the whole thing is still wide open to abuse by unscrupulous players and I have already had my fill of tin-pot dictators to pay to play a game suposedly for relaxation!
I hope the $9.99 won't attract the l33t kewl d00dz, not through some snobish mentality for paying more elsewhere but if you think you need a filter for the radio channels now..well just wait and see what the FPS crowd can bring your way (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Lastly I'd like the option to opt out of any rank system, keep score sure not particulaly points but ratio's of hits etc just to see how I'm doing once in a while. I personally feel uneasy about taking a rank or gaining medals that real servicemen and woman fought and died for..this is a personal thing and I don't think any worse of someone who does like to apply these ranks to themselves but the squad I ran and have been a part of I have always rejected giving myself anything but CO or XO infront of my name and thats just so people can see who runs the squad for a point of contact.
Another online flight-sim is only good news for us consumers but don't expect to see Warbirds or Aces High suddenly drop to $9.99 to enter a price war with WW2OL because they are not making money from a shelf-top product.
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It is a game where there could be some fun but I also forsee it will also be THE place to have to endure millions of "MajorGeneral Napoleon Balo" types. There will be 100 times greater the issue seen here in that players will be accused even more of not playing right, that they're not attacking correctly, they are failing to attack the right target, even failing to attack the right target in the right way but how the hell did they dare leave my squad out that mission and "who the hell put you in charge you ignoramus!" types. MORE than you ever could of thought there would be here.
Normally I would agree with that, however one thing to keep in mind is those little Napoleans will have to earn the right to post missions by demonstrating tactical skill.
It will be very easy to separate the worthy commander from the maroon - just look at the rank. So, while there may be Balo's running around, they will have neglible impact becasue the game is structured that way.
I think (hope) the rank system, the realism and the learning curve will naturally keep the tone of the arena on a bearable level.
Gonna be interesting, in any case. I have a feeling a lot of folks here will find WW2OL to be very fun and immersive.
Spitboy -SW-
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"As a side note, someone mentioned IL2. It is being produced by Blue Byte software. BB just got bought out by Ubisoft. I don't know about yuns's, but methinks delays are in order...at least 2 weeks."
As a side note to that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) they opened the signing for beta-testers yesterday. It will begin March 2.
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ALl signed up for IL-2 Beta testing :::Cross's fingers:::
ww2ol 39.95 + 10.00/month. I can afford that.
Targetware allowing us to virtually create our own games? Very cool. This one will take time to develop, but should prove fun in the long run. I better dig back into 3dsmax. It's about time I got to fly a Moonbat!
Oh, and that other game. AH. Always improving. Sure is a great day to be a WW2 FS fanatic! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs (http://www.devildogs.com)
'Criticism is always easier then craftmanship.'
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http://www.ebworld.com/ebx/scripts/texis.exe/ebprod (http://www.ebworld.com/ebx/scripts/texis.exe/ebprod)
WORLD WAR II ONLINE
(Pre-Order, Ships On 06/01/2001)
Price: $39.99
Category: PC Games
ESRB Rating: N/A
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Pray not for an end to the slaughter...but for VICTORY!!!
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I kinda like it here. It's 'familiar' now, I know what to expect, how to react in a given situation. For the most part the folks are pretty decent sorts; the adversarys cunning and skilled; the strat constantly evolving, the sim is maturing well.. considering where we are; what we've come thru and whats ahead... Why would I wanna start all over again?
A LOT of folks still fly AW and WB for precisely the reasons listed above.. and they don't give a rats bellybutton about the flight model. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
All things being equal, if WWIIonline presents a better flight model I'll give it a look-see and make a decision based on that. Flight models brought me here; the community and the developers attitude toward continued refinement keep me here. What's WWIIonline got to compete with that? Strat? LOL.. herding 20-30 cats that pay 29.95 a month is tuff enuff.. anybody wanna take a guess of what it's gonna be like to be in a herd 600 cheap cats? LOL.. on second thought, THAT might be worth the price of admission to see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Competition is ALWAYS good.. hell, WB'ers oughta kiss HTC for their new pricing. Maybe WWIIonline will do us the same favor.. and if that happens and the more anal children in our midst have all bolted over there then I think we'll be twice blessed when and if WWIIonline goes public.
It ain't a money issue for guys that want a quality gaming experience.. for folks like me a $9.95 price tag is no draw at all.. quite the contrary in fact.
But this and all the above is just another pre-release supposition.. don't mean a dammed thing; we're all just spinnin gears till WWiionline shifts from hype to public play.
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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders" << Recruiting!!
"Turn to kill, not to engage."
Commander 'Willie' Driscoll, USNR
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I read and I ponder upon the doubts vetilated on those boards, adn I find that all of them have been up for discussion over at the WWIIOL boards many many times, and CRS have been explaining to us many many times the way those issues are going to (supposedly) be handled.
Altough a community naturally reacts in a hostile way to an external threat which can potentially wipe out the own community, many of your concerns are not viable, while some concerns are VERY valid.
I found myself doubting the player base would be large enough, but then I time after time are boggled by the interest shown for a game not even out yet...
So if WWIIOL delivers the nessecary player base WILL be there, I'm more or less positive of this.
As for the 'cheerleading' and overly confidence shown by many 'fans' of WWIIOL, that is a natural stance when looking forward to something that promises to be THE game one has been waiting for the last 15 years...but don't think there are no 'internal critique' in the WWIIOL community, because there sure is.
But also, we are idiots no more than anyone else, and we know that WWIIOL might be a flop and blah blah we know all that. Its all about which stance you decide to take on the game; I've decided to take the optimistic stance, so what?
And for the remark about 'General wannabes, especially on the German side', what is wrong with that? I think everyone had a dream as a kid to be a great general one time or another, and now we have the chance to realize that dream (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Its not like we become real generals under whose command REAL people are killed. This is a GAME gentlemen.
thanks
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My biggest hope, for WW2OL, rests with the fact that they will have all kinds of ground pounder toys. With all the tanks,trucks,boats,FPS stuff. There is no reason for them to have an easymode/combat trim/ whatever, button in the planes. Price doesn't keep the doodz out. FM does. At least out of the planes.
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From what I`ve heard WWII online will have much the same flightmodel as AH.Maybe even harder,I remember reading about adjusting propeller pitch and such things.
That`s only good news for us AH people.
Flightmodel in most other sims aren`t even close to AH,so we will have the adventage fron start.Besides it`ll keep the quakers on the ground.The way I see it it works the same way as in real life.
The people that have the intelligence to learn the flightmodel will be flying,all the triggerhappy quakers will be in the infantry, dying horrible deaths,when my Stuka drops it`s load on `em.
The other thing:in WWIIonline,people will have to reach certain ranks to use certain equipment.A kind of perk system.
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For those dogging the Cornered Rat Software people, just remember this.
They used to work with HiTech and Pyro, back when they all worked on WarBirds.
It isn't like CRS is a bunch of upstart strangers. They used to work on WarBirds, and SO DID HITECH AND PYRO.
I guess there was a difference in opinions on what to do after they practically were forced to quit working for Interactive Magic, who tried to make them move from Texas to South Carloina. HT and Pryo wanted to do WarBirds again, and the rest thought they could do better than that.
We will see, but I wouldn't go around claiming that CRS is fooling themselves. They probably CAN do what they say.
Hans.
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I have no doubt that anyone could produce a sim with the most realistic flight model, most realistic features of ground and water, ultra realism to the bone. All that is needed is time and money.
The question is whether or not you can find enough people seriously interested in populating such a world. I used to think so, I am not so sure now. The price tag is cheap enough to pull people in, but will they be the people you want? Some yes, some no. In addition, if reading their BBS was any indication there certainly are PLENTY of the people some of us are rushing out of here to escape there.
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 02-16-2001).]
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Their new site and bulletinboard sucks big time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
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Kieren I've thought the same thing, and not just a few times (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I'm glad you're still around here. AH is a better place with your well though our responses and logical responses. Better than mine most times..
<hmm>
IMO, once again...for Raubvogel and others with the twitchy, knee jerk, self-offense, pre-emptive flame responses to any discussion of thier new found baby... (I suspect some of it is a triggered response by the chip implanted in the back of thier necks when they signed the NDA (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
Does a higher $$$ = smarter community/customers?? Well the answer is not simply in black and white. IMO yes, a higher $$ does to some extent indicate a smarter customer base because at $30/mo or more the subscriber is usually better employed than the person who is "bun-man" at Burger King. So does a better paying job = more smarts? Not necesarily. More maturity? Definatley not necesarily. If you look around you can see that this community has a maturity problem. Hell even at $2.00 an hour WB's had MG. And even though AW dos is looked upon as a golden age of flight simming there was definatley no shortage of a-holes there too, at $6/hr and plus.
The down side is a number of good people are left our of our enjoyable sim. That is the sad part.
But! A low $$$ ($10/mo in this case) means there is no bar at all because any literally 8 yr old can conjur up $10/mo. They do and in massive numbers too. The kids that become the predominant portion of the subscriber base only do what kids like to do, goof off, game the game and garner attention in many different ways 0- some good, quite alot bad. You want to kid yourselves into thinking that WWII Online will too hard for themr, far more realistic than they want and overall comprise itself of a mature subscriber base, well fine ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) That in itself is almost entertaining to folks like me who know better cause it sure makes me laugh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And notice not once did I flame the CRS folks, WWII Online itself! Just the unwashed masses that some who wear rose coloured glasses cannot see when they look at WWII Online and imagine it's gameplay and future community. I will always go and play, spend my $$$$ where I have fun. If I have more fun at Target Korea, WWII Online, WB III why by gopsh then that's where I'll hang my hat - regardless of price (unless it's hourly in which case I'l pass).
But I do not see any of them replacing my AH diet atany time in the future at all. Actually TK and WWII Online do stand to be a side dish to my regular staple here.
-Westy
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We wouldn't have this whole dweeb problem (8-year old abusers) if only the gameHOSTS would have the spine to cancel the abusers accounts after a number of valid complaints (filmed, logged proof..)
The bottom line is that the gamemakers care only about the $, players have to deal with their problems if solving it will cut their income. Things would be SO much better if only there would be a regulator on the arena keeping an order.
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Originally posted by Westy:
That in itself is almost entertaining to folks like me who know better cause it sure makes me laugh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
Oh so you "know better"??? It remains to be seen doesn't it?
As for the $10 monthly fee beeing to low(!)...well that is not that simple IMO.
The low fee is nessecary to draw in the crowd needed to populate a game like WWIIOL.
Sure, maybe a lot of kinder garten kid will play WWIIOL, and sure, they might not be very mature, but ultimately you don't have to interact with them, either you ignore them or you shoot them. They will be the mass populating the servers, while your squad will make up your online pals, together with the rest of the 'mature' WWIIOL community.
It's not like a RPG, and I belive that WWIIOL will be less open (though not immune) to abusive behaviour.
"Gaming the game" is what I intend to do. Not cheating, mind you, but in war all means are allowed and I will certainly use every 'exploit', develop every small edge there is to help win the war. In this I do NOT include bugs and cheats of course, even if we have to live with those 2 things in every computer game, so even in WWIIOL. Setting the price higher to scare off cheaters and bug exploiters is not realistic, and not effective. There are morons with money too...
(On a side note I, unlike some people, don't think that 'only' 200 people online playing in the Blitzkrieg 'arena' would be a 'disaster', or 'boring'. Hopefully those 200 people would seek up the action, and the fighting would be concentrated around a smaller area, for example a town like Dinant. Sure it's a lot of empty space, but it doesn't affect the playing experience very much.)
In short, 'my' community and experience will mainy consist of my squad and a circle of other squads who share my enthusiasm for the game, while the rest will mostly be 'faceless' soldiers, friends or foes, who I might come to respect or not, according to their behavior.
I see your concerns, and they are valid indeed, I just wanted to point out that there are other ways to approach them. In a larger context this concerns not only WWIIOL, UO, AH and WB, but the whole online gaming industry/entertainment, and it's future. Its a growing and potentially huge market, and issues as those adressed in this thread have to be resolved sooner or later.
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Originally posted by Staga:
Their new site and bulletinboard sucks big time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
What sucks with the new site?
Agreed the BBS is flawed, but bugs will be squashed, and it'll get better. Still I wish they would have used the same BBS software as this one does. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The site though, is cool, and the World@War will be one cool feature.
Sorry for the cheerleading...but who can resist something like this:
(http://www.playnet.com/screens/1000/14862/1.jpg)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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[This message has been edited by Jammer (edited 02-16-2001).]
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Jammer <shakes head>
I'll give you credit for the basic pomp pom waving and sticking fingers in your ears and doing the 'nyah nyhah I cannot hear you. Nothing you say can hurt me.."
But that's all cause my words are wasted on the neophyte.
-Westy
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Nice picture.
I still ain't buying the hype, else I go the way of the 109.. gettin' burned!!!
<begins to chant>
Wait and see! Wait and see! WAIT and SEE!
-SW
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Originally posted by Westy:
Jammer <shakes head>
I'll give you credit for the basic pomp pom waving and sticking fingers in your ears and doing the 'nyah nyhah I cannot hear you. Nothing you say can hurt me.."
But that's all cause my words are wasted on the neophyte.
-Westy
Well I could say the same about you Westy. Can we agree not to agree and then time will tell who where right? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
No need to get personal and nasty. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
That is not mature.
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Originally posted by Westy:
You want to kid yourselves into thinking that WWII Online will too hard for themr, far more realistic than they want and overall comprise itself of a mature subscriber base, well fine ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) That in itself is almost entertaining to folks like me who know better cause it sure makes me laugh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
Ahhh....ummmm.....nevermind. Since you *know better* it would be a waste of my time. lmao
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kieren.... for what it's worth...I am beggining to think you are one of the brightest, most insightful guys posting to this board.
lazs
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Are those trees 3d or sprites? They looks like it is sprites.
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Nasty?? huh? Wow.
All I can say to that is grow some skin.
-Westy
p.s. And tell us who you REALLY are behind that "shades" handle. Little too much orange in that flame beind the 109 too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-16-2001).]
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MrSid,
You spake thusly: We wouldn't have this whole dweeb problem (8-year old abusers) if only the gameHOSTS would have the spine to cancel the abusers accounts after a number of valid complaints (filmed, logged proof..)
HTC DOES do something about abusers of the game. As the chief trainer, I've had the unfortunate job of being forced to report abuse of the TA to Pyro. I haven't had to do that for the same fellow twice, it gets taken care of. If somebody is abusing the game/community, HTC will do something about it if necessary.
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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Originally posted by Westy:
p.s. And tell us who you REALLY are behind that "shades" handle. Little too much orange in that flame beind the 109 too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
What is that? I've been using the online name Jammer for 3-4 years, up until 1 month ago when I switched to 'van Richter' because of WWIIOL. I still use Jammer here though because thats what I used when I signed for this forum in november last year. Ok?
Or do you want my phone number too? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I can do the name calling game too, but I'd rather not...ok?
Peace.
EDIT: and oh, that's beta flames...the finished version will have much less orange in them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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[This message has been edited by Jammer (edited 02-16-2001).]
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oh well...
Keep your style Wetsy, Never change that attitude (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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No problem Slammer. I figure you to be one of the CRS folks. Slaga you can count on it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
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Funny you should mention a shades account westy!
You think kak3 realized you were posting under anoyther name as you iced him ?
I laugh as you are so rude to so many on this bbs. Your cutting your own wrists with every new post.
EYE
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at http://www.hq.wwiionline.com (http://www.hq.wwiionline.com) , http://www.okw.wwiionline.com (http://www.okw.wwiionline.com) and http:/www.soe.wwiionline.com (http://http:/www.soe.wwiionline.com) are screen shots and AARs (After Action Reports) from some of the Beta testers.
Plus, if there are 5000 l33t quaker types running around on the ground, what is your problem with 200 respectable flight simmers in the air? The quakers won't bother you.
I was really suprised to see the $9.99 (not $9.95) price, I was praying for $14.95 thinking it would be $19.95.
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"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/06212.gif)
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
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EYE ____
you are one fugged up psycho. What the hell are you talking about? I've never posted to kak3 nor have did I contibute in any shades username here in the one topic he's been in on the AH boards. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008057.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008057.html)
Get your meds upped guy or check into a hospice and get your nuts and bolts tightened..
Downtown, you're extremely biased and I would not expect you to see my pov but if you think the 733t will be predominately on the ground you may be delusional too.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-16-2001).]
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You are a shades account posting fool!
Old tactics westy. You have lied 3 times online or in posts about me. You post under several different names.
You are poor at ah style acm.
You have run from my duel challenges.
You have riped more people on this bbs than friends you could ever have.
Stop posting so much. Find a trainer. If i may give you a sugesstion i would check out a guy named rwy. Hes the best i have seen and flying vs him helped me alot. Do something because all i see in all your posts are anger.
EYE
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I have used another name on this ubb board in the past. Big deal. Never had any other online account after the beta ended and that was and is "Westy". Never lied to you about anything. Never met you before in my online life. The search button is right up there, top right. Put your money where you mouth is and prove your accusations. You are just a plain ole paranoidal blithering idiot who sees cheatums and point steelers behind every tree.
Get some help man. For real.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-16-2001).]
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If i counted all the times you characterized me as delusional,parinoid etc you have lied much more that the 3 i have brought up.
Your a snob who cant back it up.
The fact is you play multi post games here any time your mouth gets you in trouble.
I wouldent duel me either based on the times you have run into me in the TA. Remember "Thats it im out of here" Thats the whine you said last time we met.
Easy is a more apt name than westy for you.
Post all day and night lie about me all you want. I will come back to you with facts!!!
I have never thought you played two accounts in the ma. Never! I am well aware that you post under other names on this bbs.
One from work one from home?
In the imortal words of one of your squadies Westy YOUR NOT WORTH IT!!!!
Get some help you stink.
EYE
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Havent seen the game, but wouldnt be surprised if there was some type of moving spawn points for the Infantry/Armoured forces (much like the Me323 idea someone posted in the aircraft BBS) and some would be pretty much in fighting range immediately, and forgo the miles of running idea altogether.
As for the appeal, DOD/counterstrike and games like panzer elite are/were fairly popular..
-tronski-
486 Sqn (NZ), "Hiwa hau Maka"
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Well I will only ask one thing.
What was being posted and said on WB forums when AH was in closed beta?...maybe that it wont ever see the lite?...that the flat rate thing was a lie?...that they weren't going to be able to do it?...
Hehehe...sounds like familiar after reading this thread, isnt it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Westy:
No problem Slammer. I figure you to be one of the CRS folks. Slaga you can count on it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
Well, Westy, I don't care for your patronizing tone, but IF I woked at the CRS (hilarious) I woulnd not spend my time trying to discuss with someone who obviously already have made up his mind...
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Originally posted by RAM:
Well I will only ask one thing.
What was being posted and said on WB forums when AH was in closed beta?...maybe that it wont ever see the lite?...that the flat rate thing was a lie?...that they weren't going to be able to do it?...
Hehehe...sounds like familiar after reading this thread, isnt it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Or how about the famous "Flat rate will only encourage the dweebs and quakers to go online" ?
When AH debutted, the WB boards were full of "$29.95 will bring in the Quake-set".
Now WW2OL talks about $9.99, and the AH board brings out, "$9.99 will bring in the Quake-set".
Guys.. its not about money. Take a look at ANY online BBS. There's a good mix of humanity ... some posters are rational intelligent human beings, some are complete idiots.
Personally, I think the GOOD thing about the $9.99 is that it WILL populate the arenas, thereby providing the opportunity for CRS to build an actual WW2 flight 'simulation', rather than simply a 'BFG flight game'. But to do that, you need heaps and heaps of ground troops (err fodder). AH could well go the same route in the months ahead.
Let the L33T crew go for their lives down on the ground. I'll be at 20,000 feet over their heads battling for my life against Spitfires and Hurricanes.
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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Lephturn: Well then everything should be just fine and dandy now shouldn't it? =)
What I had in mind, was something like an online regulator who would be on the arena keeping an eye from time to time.. His presence would be known and that would for sure make players think twice before acting up like a moron.
Also this kind of method would enable the regulator to issue a strong warning to the abuser first, then take immediate action if he continues to do his stuff. From a players point of view this would be awesome since it would root out the nasty kids (the biggest problem in online world IMHO) and maniac adults from the arena.
I'm very pleased to hear that HTC takes action against the kind of people, maybe the point should be made more public? Set an example publicly for others. I know I would seriously consider before doing something illegal again (if I was doing.) The kid whose intelligence is not enough to take responsibility for his actions, will probably just insult the moderator and get the boot. I've worked as this kind of moderator for 3 years so I know =)
As long as the arena is open to all kinds of users, kids, adults, old people, sane, maniac.. Some control is necessary.
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Oh God no! The quakers are coming, the Quakers are coming!
As opposed to the High-minded, dedicated SIMULATION people, such as we have here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The people who would never park an Ostwind at the end of a runway, (Camping in Qslang)
The people that would never take a buff out as an ATA toy (BFG maybe?)
The fine folks who never fly the F4U-1C (Quaddamage)
And why are you set on burning a game that ain't even out? You just Know it's gonna suck?
I don't know that, and I've been playing as long as some of you have been alive, (or much longer from what I read on ch1)
Doodz exist in every genre,every game, FACT.
They don't do all that well in games with limited firepower and realistic modelling of performance and damage, FACT
Some of them will still find a way to be Aholes, Certified FACT.
Wait for the game, then try it,then we can discuss it's merits or shortcomings.
Or could that be too hard?
And to keep it in perspective, I'm not very good, don't care if I ever become good, can't tell you the number of rivets used in wing construction pre-1945 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
And I'm not paranoid nor delusional, I'm a sociapath (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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pzvg, I think that is what the bulk of the posters are saying here. I know I haven't intended to "burn" any game.
Never said AH was the pantheon of adult play.
Never said WWIIonline wouldn't be fun.
What I said was you are going to see immature play there, too. My comments are directed at the "I-can't-wait-to-get-out-of-here-and-play-with-mature-players" type posts. BTW, Jekyll, do you really think the "quakers" (as we are so fond of calling them) won't fly? Do you really think there won't be a vehicle of some type that seems "wrong" in an overperformance kind of way? Has anyone ever found a sim where there weren't complaints of some kind directed at a particular aircraft? I haven't yet.
If those common-sense comments are construed as insults, I guess I am being insulting. I don't think it is much in the way of prognosticating to believe the way I do, however. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Some of the folks here are clearly commenting about WW2OL without having followed its progress or looking over the sites relating to it carefully, not even to the extent of looking at the FAQs.
The MAIN problem with WB and AH is the underpinning gameplay or lack thereof, necessitating what some correctly refer to as "artificial" formal games being set up in order for participants to get anything like "realistic" combat situations. I happen to like those formal games (like the WB S3s, SLs, EMCs, and the one Snapshot I took part in here) simply because for all their faults, they`re more to my taste than Main Arena weirdness.
Where does the gameplay problem stem from? From games that try to instantly gratify the wannabe killer fighter pilots without having thought things through properly. Why do fighters exist? Because bombers and recconaisance planes exist. And why do THOSE planes exist? Because armies and navies and industrial centres belonging to the enemy exist. So, to create a realistic environment for the fighter pilots, you need to have reasonably realistic incentives to use bombers realistically, which means reasonably realistic targets for those bombers to attack, and recce planes can usefully be added into the mix, too.
Hyper-accurate bombing of point targets to close airfields so that paratroops can be dropped to capture them is so far removed from a realistic way to add in a ground war element as to be a joke. And so, short of people setting up formal scenario games in WB and AH, any claim to realism of the combat in those games is a sad joke. I`m not saying it can`t be enjoyable, and I`m not saying that looked at simply from a 1 vs 1 fighter viewpoint the FMs aren`t any good. They may be very accurate. But the millieu isn`t, and therefore the recreation of WW2-like combat isn`t.
Clearly, Cornered Rat have realised this, and so they`ve started with something that puts the air war in its proper context. It has the added benefit of appealing to a wider range of players than just flight sim addicts. Strategy gamers, land and naval wargamers, and yes, even quake-heads can be encomapssed, although the latter may well find they don`t progress very far in the game, though whether that will bother them is another matter.
Starting with the 1940 Blitzkrieg is IMO the most sensible thing CR could do. We emphatically do NOT need another sim that panders to wet dreams of the US Air force demolishing token foes in the Pacific and late European theatres. We do NOT need another sim that offers only token acknowledgement to the existence of any air forces other than the US, in fact. Nor that ignores the existence of the air war by night. Give AH it`s due, it`s done more than WB has on some of these things.
Starting with an early war setup and progressing by installments through the entire war, CR offer something for everyone - including early war enthusiasts, RAF enthusiasts, let alone L`Armee de l`Air ones (!), night flyers, etc. etc. If WW2OL succeeds, by the time it reaches 1945, it may well have wiped the floor with WB and AH. I sincerely hope that it doesn`t, simply because competition is healthy; I hope that AH continues to expand on its ground element, continues to add aircraft from the USSR, England, Italy, France (and lets have a LW bomber other than the Ju88, for heavens sake! Do217? (anyone who suggests He177 is a dweeb! ;-) <g> )).
It`d be nice to have a CHOICE of good flight sims that give you an environment where you can fly sensible missions. At the moment, bomber pilots are very badly catered for by WB (and I suspect AH, although I can`t be sure as I`ve only had the 2 weeks experience of it online), outside of formal games, and the reason is that they are generally seen simply as cannon fodder for the fighters, rather than as the main OFFENSIVE weapon of aerial warfare.
My best wishes to the AH team in their efforts to expand and improve AH and to bring teh flight sim community new and better features (I still LOVE those clouds! :-) )
Esme
CO, KG2 "Holzhammer" in WB
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There is not one thing wrong with the concept of WWIIonline as far as I can tell. I don't think many people would argue that.
Try putting six people in a room and ask them what good gameplay is. You might reach a consenus after a bit, though someone will not be entirely happy.
Now do that with 50 people.
Now 200.
Now 1,000.
Get the idea? I don't believe there is near that uniformity in the concept of what "good" or "smart" is. Note how derogatory monikers are applied to the style of gameplay we disagree with. "Quake-head" can hardly be construed as a compliment. Megalomaniac isn't a complement to the generals. We are dumping these diverse people into a huge human cocktail called AH, and look what happens. Think it won't be more of the same in that regard elsewhere?
I'm glad there will be another sim, how could I not be as a consumer? I am going to be laughing my butt off when I read the boards over there and hear the exact same complaints from the exact same people who make them here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 02-17-2001).]
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EYE, time to back up your tripe kid. I call you names I think are very appropriate. They're not lies. Is Engish a second language for you btw?? You still need to show me how I 'dissed' KaK3, what other handles I go by and fyi, I have never run into you in the TA. Never. Those must be your dreams.
Jekyll "When AH debutted, the WB boards were full of "$29.95 will bring in the Quake-set". Well, they were right. And I said as much about a month ago in a public apology to Wardog.
Jammer, I haven't made my mind up about anything all. I'm just speculating and discussing this based on seeing just what is attracted by OTHER $10/mo venues. You and several others who have posted seem to be speculating on wishes and hopes.
-Westy
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kieren... common sense arguments are seen as attacks by some. It is not hard to figure out why.
lazs
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IMO, once again...for Raubvogel and others with the twitchy, knee jerk, self-offense, pre-emptive flame responses to any discussion of thier new found baby... (I suspect some of it is a triggered response by the chip implanted in the back of thier necks when they signed the NDA )
Has it occurred to you that it's simply because they have seen and played WW2OL in its latest beta stages and actually have a REASON to be excited? That they know things you do not know, and have answers to many of the concerns you and others post regarding Quakers, arena populations, Napoleans, getting people to partake of missions, etc., but cannot divulge them yet due to NDA? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Are those trees 3d or sprites? They looks like it is sprites.
Those are real 3D objects, seen in the same place by everyone. They have to be, since they afford cover. Just like the shrubs, hedgerows, power lines, etc. Hit one with yer wing and it's likely you're going down.
Spitboy -SW-
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I tried to get on the WWIIOnline site, but it still seems like it is having trouble.
Didn't they mention something about $10/month play some time ago? And in the same discussion mentioned the possibility of tiered pay to play? Like there would also be $15/month and $20/month accounts, with each accounts giving you access to more and more features of the game? By features, I mean things like flying aircraft, not getting more weapons on a ground troop.
Have they stated that it will be $10/month for everyone to do everything?
AKDejaVu
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Westy you type nice!
Westy you fly poor!
Keep up with the shades posts. Character assination is the last resort for you.
I have seen enough of your posts to see the games you play.
I will post as long as you. I dont wear out.
You do realize i have run into you in h2h too? I was a nu XXX name. You were notever in a 47. I kicked your ass. Why do you think you have never had me hunt you in the ma?
Well my friend its because when we have met in h2h and in the ta our fights were a joke.
Your sa was poor,You tried aw style merges and as far as i could see generaly stunk.
This is fact.
When i visualize you i see a funny clown in his funny clown car p47! Painted bright colours with you hanging over the side yelling YEEOOOWWWWW!!!! Bottle in hand.
EYE
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Bzzzzt. Wrong answer. You're really starting to show how much you suck at making crap up EYE. Never flown H2H either except once with Nuttz in one of his terrains a couple of months ago for about 20 minutes. Only flew in the TA once also, about 4 months ago for an hour, when the MOL squad got together for some personal flying and I never bumped into any EYE or Beurling there either. So keep trying EYE, your roadkill keeps on piling up while you continue to avoid and sidestep showing any validity what-so-ever to anything that you've dribbled so far.
-Westy
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Wow what a cool magic trick! This post appeared here with 113 posts already made! It's incredible!
Fury
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hehehe...amazing aint it fury?