Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bj229r on August 26, 2006, 10:30:22 AM
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15- Threads started or, posts made, with the intent to inflame, incite will be considered trolling and not allowed.
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2 reasons i believe that Europe sides against Israel. Number one is that many European nations have been into dirty deals with mideast countries for oil for a long time. If you want to know more about this look into the oil for food scandal that has had me laughing at the un for some time now. Second and i believe that many nations in Europe believe that if they appease the radicals they will not plant bombs on there soil. It is easy to turn there back on Israel because they know that Israel is not going to be dropping bombs on the Eiffel tower any time soon.
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Same as CNN reporters acting as artillery forward observers and BDA for hezbollah rocket batteries.
As for Europe being against Israel it's pretty simple. Unlike European countries that would surrender at the first threat of an enemy, Israel loads up and kicks her enemies in the teeth.
For 60 years Europeans have been taught that war is wrong under any circumstance.
They've long since forgotten that there are things worth fighting and dying for.
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Originally posted by Blooz
Same as CNN reporters acting as artillery forward observers and BDA for hezbollah rocket batteries.
As for Europe being against Israel it's pretty simple. Unlike European countries that would surrender at the first threat of an enemy, Israel loads up and kicks her enemies in the teeth.
For 60 years Europeans have been taught that war is wrong under any circumstance.
They've long since forgotten that there are things worth fighting and dying for.
When you lose an entire generation in a war, I'd be leary of getting into any others.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
When you lose an entire generation in a war, I'd be leary of getting into any others.
ack-ack
so what your saying is the terrorists should lose a entire generation so that we can have world peace?
i agree, lock an load.
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Weekly Standard, nuff said... It's a PNAC mouthpiece. Might as well read Israeli or US psychological warfare leaflets.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
When you lose an entire generation in a war, I'd be leary of getting into any others.
ack-ack
They lost an entire generation in WW1, and avoiding the coming menace didn't exactly help prevent WW2, nor reduce the cost in human misery
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Weekly Standard, nuff said
PNAC mouthpiece
Dang, it's SOO easy to win an argument as a liberal--just insult said arguER, therefore their entire preceding statement doesn't even have to be addressed.....so much easier than actually REFUTING anything they say. Maybe I should switch sides .....hmm...does this work against wives too?:furious
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Originally posted by bj229r
Dang, it's SOO easy to win an argument as a liberal--just insult said arguER, therefore their entire preceding statement doesn't even have to be addressed.....so much easier than actually REFUTING anything they say. Maybe I should switch sides .....hmm...does this work against wives too?:furious
If you had posted a link accusing Israel of atrocities your source wouldnt be questioned, sad really.
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Funked nailed it, it is propaganda aimed at people who've already proved they're happy to feast on drivel, as clearly evidenced by some of the responses.
UNIFIL's principal mandate is to observe and report violations of the ceasefire. If you don't like that then go crying to your own government, which voted for the terms of the mandate in the first place and which is in the prime position to change them if it wants to.
UNIFIL has lost more troops to hostilities across the blue line since it's inception than has Israel. Funny how this article omits to mention that fact isn't it?
As for the rest of the allegations, the article does nothing more than make assertions without naming a single source, so it's pretty hard to actually refute, which I imagine is the intention.
Originally posted by Hawker25
2 reasons i believe that Europe sides against Israel. Number one is that many European nations have been into dirty deals with mideast countries for oil for a long time.
What, and the US hasn't? You sure about that?
If you want to know more about this look into the oil for food scandal that has had me laughing at the un for some time now.
That would be the oil for food scandal where a US Congressional investigation found that more than half the corrupt deals could be laid at the door of US companies?
Originally posted by Blooz
Same as CNN reporters acting as artillery forward observers and BDA for hezbollah rocket batteries.
Source?
As for Europe being against Israel it's pretty simple. Unlike European countries that would surrender at the first threat of an enemy, Israel loads up and kicks her enemies in the teeth.
That's interesting. If Europe is so anti-Israel, why does the EU give Israel preferential trade terms that makes europe one of Israel's biggest markets and thus underpins the Israeli economy? Why is that for most of Israel's early history, it was european nations that armed and supported Israel? Why has the German government just subsidised the sale of submarines to the Israeli navy?
For 60 years Europeans have been taught that war is wrong under any circumstance.
They've long since forgotten that there are things worth fighting and dying for.
Or maybe they are harder to con? Found the WMD yet?
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have the UN troops in Lebanon surrendered yet?
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Originally posted by Momus--
Funked nailed it, it is propaganda aimed at people who've already proved they're happy to feast on drivel, as clearly evidenced by some of the responses.
UNIFIL's principal mandate is to observe and report violations of the ceasefire. If you don't like that then go crying to your own government, which voted for the terms of the mandate in the first place and which is in the prime position to change them if it wants to.
UNIFIL has lost more troops to hostilities across the blue line since it's inception than has Israel. Funny how this article omits to mention that fact isn't it?
As for the rest of the allegations, the article does nothing more than make assertions without naming a single source, so it's pretty hard to actually refute, which I imagine is the intention.
What, and the US hasn't? You sure about that?
That would be the oil for food scandal where a US Congressional investigation found that more than half the corrupt deals could be laid at the door of US companies?
Source?
That's interesting. If Europe is so anti-Israel, why does the EU give Israel preferential trade terms that makes europe one of Israel's biggest markets and thus underpins the Israeli economy? Why is that for most of Israel's early history, it was european nations that armed and supported Israel? Why has the German government just subsidised the sale of submarines to the Israeli navy?
Or maybe they are harder to con? Found the WMD yet?
Hmm..UNIFIL deaths:
Location Southern Lebanon
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/facts.html
Headquarters Naqoura
Duration March 1978 to present
Force Commander Major-General Alain Pellegrini (France)
Strength Authorized [S/RES/1701 of 11 August 2006]:
15,000 troops
Current (30 June 2006)
1,990 troops, assisted by some 50 military observers of UNTSO; and supported by 100 international civilian personnel and 305 local civilian staff
Contributors of military personnel China, France, Ghana, India, Ireland, Italy, Poland and Ukraine
Fatalities 249 troops
2 military observers
2 international civilian staff
4 local staff
257 Total
---(Israel has lost more women and children to suicide bombers in 1 week than the UNIFIL's totla since inception)
Yes, Unilf's job is to report violations...but they SEEM to err on the side of the Hezbo's:
Sure enough, a review of every single UNIFIL web posting during the war shows that, while UNIFIL was daily revealing the towns where Israeli soldiers were located, the positions from which they were firing, and when and how they had entered Lebanese territory, it never described Hezbollah movements or locations with any specificity whatsoever.
Compare the vague "various locations" language with this UNIFIL posting from July 25:
Yesterday and during last night, the IDF moved significant reinforcements, including a number of tanks, armored personnel carriers, bulldozers and infantry, to the area of Marun Al Ras inside Lebanese territory. The IDF advanced from that area north toward Bint Jubayl, and south towards Yarun.
Or with the posting on July 24, in which UNIFIL revealed that the IDF stationed between Marun Al Ras and Bint Jubayl were "significantly reinforced during the night and this morning with a number of tanks and armored personnel carriers."
For months the Israeli government pleaded with the U.N. to turn over any videotape that might shed light on the location and condition of its missing men. And for nine months the U.N. stonewalled, insisting first that no such tape existed, then that just one tape existed, and eventually conceding that there were two more tapes. During those nine months, clips from the videotapes were shown on Syrian and Lebanese television
Btw, what exactly WAS UNIFIL's mission during the war? When Hezboallh started firing rockets just YARDS away from them, it MIGHT have been time to either fight or leave...since noone respects UN troops, as they are never allowed to fight..assuming they are issued weapons)
That would be the oil for food scandal where a US Congressional investigation found that more than half the corrupt deals could be laid at the door of companies?
ahem:
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-10/2005-10-28-voa1.cfm?CFID=44394458&CFTOKEN=49398613
In all, the report says nearly half the 45-hundred companies doing business under the program made illegal payments totaling one-point-eight-billion dollars.
Russia and France were the countries with the largest number of firms on the list. Russia's Zarubezhneft, or "foreign oil company" was singled out as the most active oil-for-food contractor, paying more than eight million dollars in surcharges, much of it to the Iraqi embassy in Moscow.
Groups and individuals from 66 countries were named. Several have denied making or receiving illegal payments, others have admitted their roles, and in some cases, prosecutions have already begun.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Dang, it's SOO easy to win an argument as a liberal--just insult said arguER, therefore their entire preceding statement doesn't even have to be addressed.
Cos yeah, if you disagree with PNAC you must be teh librule.
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Another tedious UN bash, predictable, pointless and usually inaccurate.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Another tedious UN bash, predictable, pointless and usually inaccurate.
Ah...2 more cleverly argued refutations worthy of Harvard Debating Team . ( FYI--tried this with wife today...didn't work)
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Originally posted by bj229r
Israel has lost more women and children to suicide bombers in 1 week than the UNIFIL's totla since inception)
What has deaths to suicide bombers in Israel got to do with the fact that the UN has taken more losses on the blue line in 28 years than the IDF?
Yes, Unilf's job is to report violations...but they SEEM to err on the side of the Hezbo's
Or alternatively, Israel has committed more violations to actually report.
Btw, what exactly WAS UNIFIL's mission during the war? When Hezboallh started firing rockets just YARDS away from them, it MIGHT have been time to either fight or leave...since noone respects UN troops, as they are never allowed to fight..assuming they are issued weapons)
You're inferrring that Unifil's mandate is other than it actually is. You can look at the mandate here. (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/mandate.html). Nowhere does it say it is to get involved with fighting on any side, in fact its specific purpose is to confirm Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon.
ahem: http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-10/2005-10-28-voa1.cfm?CFID=44394458&CFTOKEN=49398613
I should have phrased my initial statement better. Yes, French and Russian firms may have accounted for the largest number of firms. US interests however accounted for 52% of the total kickbacks paid to Iraq.
Source (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/oilforfood/2005/0517backed.htm)
You may also like to acknowledge that other significant point raised by the Volker report, which was that oil for food kick-back revenues were dwarfed by revenues generated by oil smuggling, which absolutely did not fall under the juristiction of the UN.
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Source?
I guess you were asleep all those days as CNN reporters were telling and showing everyone, live on camera, where they were standing, what was going on around them, the location of friendly towns, the location of friendly troops and as the rockets came down around them showed the damage that was caused and reported the number of casualties.
They made fine hezbollah artillery forward observers.
As for the UN troops killed? As soon as the bullets start flying their job is done. Those pretty white armored vehicles with the huge UN painted on them they are issued are supposed to be used to get the hell out of the way.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Israel has lost more women and children to suicide bombers in 1 week than the UNIFIL's totla since inception)
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What has deaths to suicide bombers in Israel got to do with the fact that the UN has taken more losses on the blue line in 28 years than the IDF?
It has nothing to do with it whatsoever, but you mentioned it in your earlier response...which maintained that "UNIFIL has lost more troops to hostilities across the blue line since it's inception than has Israel. Funny how this article omits to mention that fact isn't it?" In fact, UNIFIL has lost 257 people since 1978.
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Yes, Unilf's job is to report violations...but they SEEM to err on the side of the Hezbo's
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Or alternatively, Israel has committed more violations to actually report.
That's entirely possible, but the point of the article was that UNIFIL was purposefully ignoring Hezbollah actions, while reporting very precisely what Israel was doing...giving Hezbollah fighters actionable intelligence with which to wage war. The same Hezbollah fighters who launched 100's/THOUSANDS of rockets from behind civilian shields into civilian areas, with no intent whatsoever of hitting military targets
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Btw, what exactly WAS UNIFIL's mission during the war? When Hezboallh started firing rockets just YARDS away from them, it MIGHT have been time to either fight or leave...since noone respects UN troops, as they are never allowed to fight..assuming they are issued weapons)
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You're inferrring that Unifil's mandate is other than it actually is. You can look at the mandate here.. Nowhere does it say it is to get involved with fighting on any side, in fact its specific purpose is to confirm Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon.
I didn't infer that it was something else, merely indicated that it was squealing stupid of the UN to give them that mandate, which makes them useless. (If it looked that way, poor choice of words on my part)
(That being said, the mandate DOES include this, which would seem to preclude Hezbollah building a military industrial complex underneath several southern Lebanon CIVILIAN population centers:Assist the Lebanese armed forces in taking steps towards the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Government of Lebanon and of UNIFIL deployed in this area;
You're right about the Volker report, I never knew that the 'oil-for-food' and the 'oil smuggling were utterly separate activities...and...2% IS 2%...but, the US is ABLE to better bribe sleazy countries because we have a bigger economy
:aok
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Here you go Funky.....how dare someone make you read the weekly standard
UNIFIL: United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon - Press releases. (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/unifilpress.htm)
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2 reasons i believe that Europe sides against Israel. Number one is that many European nations have been into dirty deals with mideast countries for oil for a long time. If you want to know more about this look into the oil for food scandal that has had me laughing at the un for some time now. Second and i believe that many nations in Europe believe that if they appease the radicals they will not plant bombs on there soil. It is easy to turn there back on Israel because they know that Israel is not going to be dropping bombs on the Eiffel tower any time soon.
You miss the most obvious reason:
Anti-semitism
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"All Americans are fat stupid idiots" is about as accurate and precise as the analysis of Europeans made in this thread.
Think-BEFORE-you-post gentlemen.
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Originally posted by StSanta
"All Americans are fat stupid idiots" is about as accurate and precise as the analysis of Europeans made in this thread.
Think-BEFORE-you-post gentlemen.
Another incredibly well-reasoned, well thought out, insightful retort (I could have said 'leftists', instead of Europeans tho--largely redundant)