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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: macleod01 on August 27, 2006, 08:09:20 AM

Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: macleod01 on August 27, 2006, 08:09:20 AM
The Gloster Gladiator! Why not? It saw service in the Battle of Britain! Think how many perks youd get if you flew one and shot down a p51d! Amazing! Plus it would be hard to hit because its so slow! By the time you get it lined up in your sights your past it! Say it could carry two 1000lb bombs or a 2000lb torpedo? Please! It would be so much fun!
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Ghosth on August 27, 2006, 08:16:10 AM
Prefer a Fairy Swordfish myself for early war Torp action.
But then I wouldn't expect to fly it in the main & survive.

What was the turning radius on those old birds anyway?
Tighter than the A6m?

I imagine finding good data is also not easy. Not for the level of detail HT & co are looking for.
Title: Re: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: skysnipr on August 27, 2006, 09:31:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by macleod01
Say it could carry two 1000lb bombs or a 2000lb torpedo?
A biplane fighter w/2000 pound loadout??? Highly unlikely that it could even get airborne with that. Something more like a few 100 or 250 pound bombs would be more realistic.
Title: tell it to the Bismark
Post by: Nosara on August 27, 2006, 11:00:20 AM
Commissioned on August 24, 1940, the German battleship Bismarck was the epitome of naval power. The great ship was 823 feet in length, had a beam of 118 feet, and a displacement of 50,000 tons. After nine months of sea trials the Bismarck embarked on its first mission accompanied by the cruiser Prinz Eugen on May 19, 1941. The Bismarck's mission was to destroy and disrupt convoys carrying war relief supplies to Britain from North America. On May 20th the Bismarck was spotted and reported to British intelligence as it passed through the narrow straits between Denmark and Sweden. The British presumed correctly that the Bismarck was headed for the North Atlantic, but by which route? Dividing its naval forces in an attempt to intercept the mighty German battleship, four ships were sent to patrol the Denmark strait, including the newly commissioned battleship Prince of Wales, and the H.M.S. Hood, a heavily armed battle cruiser, pride of the British fleet. On May 23rd the Bismarck was spotted by the H.M.S. Norfolk and the H.M.S. Suffolk. The Bismarck opened fire on the Norfolk, which was out gunned by the German ship, but fortunately was able to allude the Bismarck because of heavy fog and mist. With its position identified British Naval authorities ordered several other ships to the area including the H.M.S. Ark Royal, one of two aircraft carriers dispatched. On May 24th the Bismarck was engaged again. The H.M.S. Hood took a direct hit and exploded with the loss of all but three of its large crew. The Bismarck took two hits from the Prince of Wales during this battle, one of which had the effect of reducing the huge ships effective fuel capacity, and hence range. Later that evening a torpedo plane attack was launched at the German battleship, which sustained one hit with little damage. On May 25th the Bismarck separated from the Prinz Eugen, and set a course for the French coast in hopes of making repairs. On May 26th the Bismarck was located again by a British reconnaissance aircraft. In an attempt to prevent the ship from reaching the safety of Luftwaffe air cover, a second torpedo plane attack was launched from the Ark Royal. Utilizing Fairy Swordfish bi-plane torpedo bombers, two hits were achieved. The first was amidships and caused virtually no damage. The second hit was astern, and resulted in the jamming of the Bismarck's rudder. Unable to maneuver, the great German battleship had little choice that to continue steaming for the French coast. Four more British warships lay in its path including the H.M.S. Rodney, the H.M.S. King George V, the H.M.S. Dorsetshire, and the H.M.S. Norfolk. On the morning of May 27th an enormous sea battle took place, with the unmaneuverable Bismarck taking more than 1,000 direct hits. After losing its fire control system, the Bismarck became a defenseless target. At approximately 10:00 AM Bismarck's Captain gave the orders to scuttle the enormous ship, and about 40 minutes later the great vessel slipped quietly beneath the surface of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Re: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: SMIDSY on August 27, 2006, 12:44:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by skysnipr
A biplane fighter w/2000 pound loadout??? Highly unlikely that it could even get airborne with that. Something more like a few 100 or 250 pound bombs would be more realistic.


biplanes have higher lift capacity than a monoplane. so if it was built sturdy enough, it could indeed carry that much. however, i doubt a fighter designed in the pre-war era could carry that much, but i have been wrong before.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: E25280 on August 27, 2006, 01:08:07 PM
The Swordfish could carry 2 500lb bombs or one 1600lb torpedo.

But I think the Gladiator was strictly a fighter.  4 forward firing .303s.  I didn't think it could carry bombs, but I am willing to be wrong.

For dogfighting, though, you would definitely want the Gladiator over the Swordfish.  Swordfish had only 2 .303s, one fixed forward, one in a rear gunner position.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Airscrew on August 27, 2006, 03:11:29 PM
according to my book Encyloclopedia of Military Aircraft,  the Gloster Gladiator was a fighter, the last of the RAFs biplane fighters.  4 fixed 303s, no bombs or torpedos.  The Fairey Swordfish had an offensive load of 1 18in torpedo or 8 60lb rocket projectiles
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Ghosth on August 28, 2006, 07:35:18 AM
Heck HT, give us both of them.

Those 2 both make the Val look GOOD!  :)
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Furball on August 28, 2006, 08:26:51 AM
Swordfish could also be fitted with radar... open cockpit biplane with air to surface radar and rocket projectiles, imagine that :)

Their finest hour was at Taranto in 1940 when they crippled the Italian fleet in port, which was a big inspiration to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avsword.html#m3

i dont think it is an aircraft worth adding, just wouldnt see use and be a too easy target in AH.

The Gladiator would be brilliant fun to furball in, need that and the CR.42 added at same time!

(http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Gladiator/GladiatorFlying10oClock.jpg)

(http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/csa/41stormo/IMG/cr42.jpg)
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: red26 on August 28, 2006, 08:39:58 AM
I wish we had a biplane arena just to fight the old dogs in. Is there a good biplane game out there?:aok :noid
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Yoshimbo on August 28, 2006, 08:53:43 AM
yes red baron pwns.


I did request this once before but it was on a side note, glad to see a thread dedicated to it. bring 'em both! and while yer at it bring some more biplanes like the...

Britain
Fairey Fox

Russia
I-15, this one's real nice

Japan
Nakajima A4N, CV based biplane

I think the germans had a biplane they fought with, i'm certain they had one i can't remember wut it's called though.

and while yer at it get me the Sopwith Camel and Snipe,the S.E.5a, the Spad XIII, the Fokker Dr 1, DVII, etc.

wut would a Aces High: WWI be like?

i'll tell you, AWESOME! flame dat zepplin!
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: macleod01 on August 28, 2006, 11:37:57 AM
think how much fun it would be! And embarrasing! A p51d limps back to base and has to own up he's been beaten up by a BIPLANE! Funny as heck! Please HT! For amusments sake. And as for use, I would fly it for the heck of it. And Torp runs if we got the Camel.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 11:49:18 AM
The Gladiator could turn but its top speed was in the low 200s. It was obsolete before the war started. Ah would reflect this.

The Val in AH can out turn most planes. So can the SBD. Folks take them up once in a blue moon to try to out turn some "uber plane" on the deck.

Only most folks don't just slow down and get into simplistic turn fights. Add any elemy of the vertical or a good merge and the Val/SBD is dead. This has been proven. The same would be true of the gladiator. It was a legacy plane, and wouldn't have been used at all in WW2 if there wasn't such a shortage of Hurricanes (and then Spitfires) at the beginning of the war.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: red26 on August 28, 2006, 11:55:24 AM
I think it would be cool to have a WWI arena just so we could go around and get into the real dog fights yea!!:aok
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 12:06:22 PM
They've made entire games dedicated to WW1. They all died. Why? Because nobody wants to fly them. They don't have enough money coming in and they go belly up.

Hell not even that long ago there was Dawn of Aces. (Was? Is? Is it still around?)

It was the WarBirds WW1 game. Never had any following, despite the interest.

Same with every other game. I tried out Targetware for a while (that game... don't get me started) -- they have a WW1 arena and it never had ANYbody in it for a period of months.

Red Baron was great, but it was an offline game. The online version didn't have much longevity.

So frankly, WW1 games don't cut it. That's my observation over the years.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Shifty on August 28, 2006, 12:12:43 PM
The Gladiator is far from a WWI aircraft. I know Krusty the WWI stuff usually fails. There seems to be wuite a few people myself included who would love to see more early war birds. The 1939 stuff  like the Gladiators, A5M's, Ki-27's P-26's  on and on. Of course theres just not very many of us. It's mainly the special events , and CT/AVA crowd.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 12:22:06 PM
Of course, of course! I got side-tracked for a bit.

I'd like to see some early craft for better scenarios. However the way AH damage works the 7mm/30cal guns don't do jack. That's a fact. AH would require a damage model re-working from the ground up (which in fact I can promise will never happen -- too much time and effort required) before that is fixed.

Without a better damage model they'll be utterly useless IMO. For example we have -- what? -- 2000 rounds of 7mm on the Val, with 2 forward guns. This plane has about the same performance as any of the early war biplanes, if you leave the bombload off. It's also got a rear gun, something most biplanes don't boast. And yet it's never used as a fighter. Why? It's not the speed. It's not the weak performance. It's the guns. You literally have to use up 1500 of those rounds on one plane (and hit 80% of said rounds!) before you get a kill.

In a plane like the Gladiator, it would have 4 .303 guns but less ammo per gun (300 rounds? Less I think), you'd only get into one fight, and even if you land every last bullet you have you'll most likely have to run for home with no kill and now no way to fight back.

I'm jaded about it. On the one hand I'd love the early war planes, but with the way Ah is set up I just can't see them ever "working".
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Karnak on August 28, 2006, 12:28:53 PM
The Gladiator's speed was in the mid upper 200s, not lower 200s.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 12:32:19 PM
220-230 last I recall? Let me go look it up

EDIT: About 250. Still too slow :lol
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Karnak on August 28, 2006, 02:17:46 PM
Well, the number I recall was about 265mph.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 02:29:48 PM
Close enough :aok

The first site I foudn on the InterWebamajiggy said 255, so I added the "about" part.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: red26 on August 28, 2006, 02:36:09 PM
I understand not having them in the MA but if they had a arena for the WWI birds by them selfs??? I would love that!!!:aok :aok :noid
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: hacksaw1 on August 28, 2006, 02:38:17 PM
You can try out the Gladiator, CR 42 and Swordfish in Target Tobruk if you want. The Gladiator in TT has a tough time with the C 200 open cockpit Macchi, so it would not likely survive long in AH. TT is set up with more dedicated engine management requirements and you may burn up your engine if you aren't careful. They also have the 3 engined Italian bomber, SM 79. TT takes a scenario approach but they usually have very low numbers. You can test fly the various planes offline.

Best regards

Cement
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: viper215 on August 28, 2006, 04:10:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Well, the number I recall was about 265mph.


You sure its not 266;) :aok :p
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 04:37:38 PM
I'm sure Viper means 266.1314159 mph. :P
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: nirvana on August 28, 2006, 05:06:48 PM
It HAS been requested before  Here (http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=257709&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 05:24:27 PM
Not just there, but many times.
Title: Why has nobody requested this!
Post by: viper215 on August 28, 2006, 05:28:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I'm sure Viper means 266.1314159 mph. :P



:lol :lol :lol