Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xrtoronto on August 27, 2006, 01:31:25 PM
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(Filed: 27/08/2006)
Tony Blair's lack of leadership and timid subservience to George W Bush lie behind the ongoing crisis in Iraq and the worldwide threat of terrorism, according to the former American president Jimmy Carter.
"I have been surprised and extremely disappointed by Tony Blair's behaviour," he told The Sunday Telegraph.
"I think that more than any other person in the world the Prime Minister could have had a moderating influence on Washington - and he has not. I really thought that Tony Blair, who I know personally to some degree, would be a constraint on President Bush's policies towards Iraq."
In an exclusive interview, President Carter made it plain that he sees Mr Blair's lack of leadership as being a key factor in the present crisis in Iraq, which followed the 2003 invasion - a pre-emptive move he said he would never have considered himself as president.
Mr Carter also said that the Iraq invasion had subverted the fight against terrorism and instead strengthened al-Qaeda and the recruitment of terrorists.
"In many countries where I meet with leaders and private citizens there is an equating of American policy with Great Britain - with Great Britain obviously playing the lesser role.
"We now have a situation where America is so unpopular overseas that even in countries like Egypt and Jordan our approval ratings are less than five per cent. It's a shameful and pitiful state of affairs and I hold your British Prime Minister to be substantially responsible for being so compliant and subservient."
The outspoken attack by the former Democratic president shows the extent of the alienation between the Labour Party and its traditional Democrat allies in America.
It will embarrass the Prime Minister on his return from his summer family holiday in Barbados and comes as Mr Blair prepares to make a defiant speech warning his party that it risks losing the next election if it does not unite behind him.
As friends of the Prime Minister mounted frenzied briefings in his defence yesterday, the Downing Street spin machine appeared to run out of control. A statement first put out on Friday was reissued, in which Mr Blair made a desperate defence of his Government, insisting that "after nearly a decade in office the PM is convinced that his Government has the experience and authority to meet these challenges".
Later officials at Downing Street admitted that they had simply redated the identical statement before sending it out to the press.
At 81, Mr Carter - the 39th American president, from 1977 to 1981, and the winner of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize - plainly has no intention of sitting on his porch and nodding quietly away as the sun goes down over his peanut farm. He has just published a book, Faith and Freedom, in which he savages the American administration for leading the country into insularity and intolerance.
"We've never before had an administration that would endorse pre-emptive war - that is a basic policy of going to war against another country even though our own security was not directly threatened," he said. In his book, President Carter writes: "I have been sorely tempted to launch a military attack on foreigners."
But had he still been president, he says that he would never have considered invading Iraq in 2003.
"No," he said, "I would never have ordered it. However, I wouldn't have excluded going into Afghanistan, because I think we had to strike at al-Qaeda and its leadership. But then, to a major degree, we abandoned the anti-terrorist effort and went almost unilaterally with Great Britain into Iraq."
This, Mr Carter believes, subverted the effectiveness of anti-terrorist efforts. Far from achieving peace and stability, the result has been a disaster on all fronts. "My own personal opinion is that the Iraqi people are not better off as a result of the invasion and people in America and Great Britain are not safer."
Asked why he thinks Mr Blair has behaved in the way that he has with President Bush's belligerent regime, Mr Carter said he could only put it down to timidity. Yet he confessed that he remains baffled by the apparent contrast between Mr Blair's private remarks and his public utterances.
"I really believe the reports of former leaders who were present in conversations between Blair and Bush that Blair has expressed private opinions contrary to some of the public policies that he has adopted in subservience."
c&p (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/27/nblair27.xml)
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Carter is a tool...
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This coming from a President that is considered to be on of the most impotent presidents we've had. Just ask those American citizens that were "guests" of Iran for 444 days.
ack-ack
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I long for the return to the days of 21% prime interest rate.
Another Black Plague would be nice too.
What Bodhi said. Tool
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Originally posted by Max
I long for the return to the days of 21% prime interest rate.
Another Black Plague would be nice too.
What Bodhi said. Tool
I have tickets to a Tool concert.
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Ack-Ack, Carter sent a rescue mission to Iran, but it failed miserably. I'm sure you already knew this though.
Carter also started alternative energy research, which was cancelled under Reagan.
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6- Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". Issues with any breach of rules should be brought to HTC's attention via email at support@hitechcreations.com.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Ack-Ack, Carter sent a rescue mission to Iran, but it failed miserably. I'm sure you already knew this though.
Carter also started alternative energy research, which was cancelled under Reagan.
Yes, and Carter's rediculous insistence that it be a combined forces mission doomed it to failure.
Top that off with inept fiscal policy, failure to follow up a failed liberation attempt with a working one, and piss poor policy, and wow, what a president Carter was! :rolleyes:
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It failed because he forced the different branches of the military to work together? Please, thats preposterous...
As far as fiscal policy, Carter wanted to stop inflation. Whats so bad about that?
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Jimmy who?
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Originally posted by lukster
Jimmy who?
jimmy carter, you know , he builds houses, and grows peanuts.
and who can ever forget "billy beer"
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Originally posted by john9001
jimmy carter, you know , he builds houses, and grows peanuts.
and who can ever forget "billy beer"
Billy Beer? Oh yeah, now I remember, Billy Carter. Wasn't his brother president or something? ;)
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Originally posted by bj229r
6- Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". Issues with any breach of rules should be brought to HTC's attention via email at support@hitechcreations.com.
You quoted an article criticising the UN as evidence of Europe hating Israel, which suggests you either dont know what the UN is, or what Europe is, or were trolling.
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I find it very laughable he has the nerve to critize Blair. He was voted out of office after one term for good reason. Get off the Moral high ground 'Jimmy', Blair is 10 times the leader you ever were.
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Originally posted by Trikky
You quoted an article criticising the UN as evidence of Europe hating Israel, which suggests you either dont know what the UN is, or what Europe is, or were trolling.
Don't troll the troll !
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Originally posted by Trikky
You quoted an article criticising the UN as evidence of Europe hating Israel, which suggests you either dont know what the UN is, or what Europe is, or were trolling.
I quoted an article that pointed several facts. The UN is dominated by Europe. Inferences can be made from there, but it's water under the bridge, and I don't mean to hijack this guy's thread (That being said, I SHOULd have said LEFTIST segments of the UN)
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
It failed because he forced the different branches of the military to work together? Please, thats preposterous...
As far as fiscal policy, Carter wanted to stop inflation. Whats so bad about that?
Read the reports on the incident. Read Haney's take on it. Realise that the forced use of Navy helos with crews unused to flying NOE over land and with zero visibilty in the sand and you will quickly realise that the statement I made is very correct. Sadly a lot of good men died to appease a political maneuver becasue Carter did not have the balls to put his foot down on the inter service rivalry...
As for fiscal policy, sure, he wanted to stop inflation, everyone does, but his policies did F all to stop it. It took Reagan to turn it around.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Read the reports on the incident. Read Haney's take on it.
I don't care how much Mr. Haney hates Jimmy Carter. Hell, Mr. Haney talks funny and never talked much sense on Green Acres.
Read "Blind Into Baghdad." ;)
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I am just happy Carter didnt give away Texas or New Mexico while he was giving away the Panama Canal.
Some notes about Carters presidency besides giving away Panama Canal:
Invited Castro to empty his prisons ala the "Muriel Boat Lift"
Oversaw such a horrible fiscal policy, interest rates skyrocketed beyond 20%
Lacked the backbone to get hostages back from Iran
Staffed the White House with incompetent boobs from GA with no experience
The last thing this incompetent fool should do is critize other world leades, especially those who can actually get re-elected.
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On the other hand... maybe 52 people finally went home because Carter was smart enough not to "cowboy up."
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Tool, ya mean like people ignorant enough to blame the problems at Desert 1 on Carter?
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Desert One (http://www.afa.org/magazine/jan1999/0199desertone.asp)
Although Carter went on television the next day to announce the failure of the mission and to accept the blame, Congress and the Pentagon launched inquiries to determine the reasons for the tragedy. The Pentagon probe was handled by a board of three retired and three serving flag officers representing all four services; it was led by retired Adm. James L. Holloway III. The commission's report listed 23 areas "that troubled us professionally about the mission-areas in which there appeared to be weaknesses."
"We are apprehensive that the critical tone of our discussion could be misinterpreted as an indictment of the able and brave men who planned and executed this operation. We encountered not a shred of evidence of culpable neglect or incompetence," the report said.
The commission concluded that the concept and plan for the mission were feasible and had a reasonable chance for success.
But, it noted, "the rescue mission was a high-risk operation. ... People and equipment were called upon to perform at the upper limits of human capacity and equipment capability. There was little margin to compensate for mistakes or plain bad luck."
The major criticism was of the "ad hoc" nature of the task force, a chain of command the commission felt was unclear, and an emphasis on operational secrecy it found excessive.
The commission also said the chances for success would have been improved if more backup helicopters had been provided, if a rehearsal of all mission components had been held, and if the helicopter pilots had had better access to weather information and the data on the RH-53s' BIM warning system.
And it suggested that Air Force helicopter pilots might have been better qualified for the mission.
However, the report also said, "The helicopter crews demonstrated a strong dedication toward mission accomplishment by their reluctance to abort under unusually difficult conditions." And it concluded that, "two factors combined to directly cause the mission abort: an unexpected helicopter failure rate and the low-visibility flight conditions en route to Desert One."
Beckwith openly blamed the helicopter pilots immediately after the mission. However, in his critique to the Senate Armed Services Committee, he attributed the failure to Murphy's Law and the use of an ad hoc organization for such a difficult mission. "We went out and found bits and pieces, people and equipment, brought them together occasionally, and then asked them to perform a highly complex mission," he said. "The parts all performed, but they didn't necessarily perform as a team."
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brief history of Jimmy Carter (http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/jc39.html)
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Carter's past becomes increasingly sinister the more he critisizes Bush's (or Blair's) present. It's the tit for tat principle. ;)
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"I think that more than any other person in the world the Prime Minister could have had a moderating influence on Washington - and he has not. I really thought that Tony Blair, who I know personally to some degree, would be a constraint on President Bush's policies towards Iraq."
Carter is living in la la land if he thought Blair could have put the brakes on the neocon knuckle heads and their agenda by influencing Bush. The strings were pulled behind the scene, Bush was only a conduit for PNAC.
"We now have a situation where America is so unpopular overseas that even in countries like Egypt and Jordan our approval ratings are less than five per cent. It's a shameful and pitiful state of affairs and I hold your British Prime Minister to be substantially responsible for being so compliant and subservient."
Yep, in the mid east America's credibility is lower than mud and it's mostly the fault of the Brits. Bloody foreigners.
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Originally posted by Arlo
Carter's past becomes increasingly sinister the more he critisizes Bush's (or Blair's) present. It's the tit for tat principle. ;)
Actually, every time he speaks he reminds people of how bad he was as a president.
Carter was discussed quite a bit in this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184752) when it wasn't a response to one of his statements.
Carter was a horrible president. If he'd have been pres in 2001, there'd be saudi contractors rebuilding the WTC right now. The fact that he's on the "U.N.'s side" does not lend any credence to their position, it weakens it.
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carter calling anyone "timid" is the height of irony for anyone who lived under his reign.
The man has become an outspoken liberal now that he doesn't have to pretend to be sane.
lazs
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Carter's public persona is pretty much a fabrication too, according to a friend who was a secret service agent in the whitehouse during Carter's administration. He said that Carter was extremely aloof, never friendly at all, and often rude to service personnel. He said Carter's kids were absolute prettythangholes too - totally spoiled and very demanding and snotty.
Personally, I think Carter has gone off the deep end. He seems to be in a big hurry to try to rehabilitate his legacy by trashing other administrations. Forget his idiotic politics for a minute, his public expression of lack of respect and lack of support for a serving US President are unheard of for a past president. He has no sense of honor for the US Presidency, maybe because he wants to bring others down to his miserable level.
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We should listen to Carter. Hes an expert on non-action. Except building houses for the needy.
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Originally posted by Sandman
On the other hand... maybe 52 people finally went home because Carter was smart enough not to "cowboy up."
More like they went home because he was no longer in power and the hostage takers were afraid a real man was becoming president and they better watch out.
Carter is a nut job that should be locked away and put on meds till he's at least as sane as Al Gore. Which isn't very sane but at least Al isn't as delusional as peanut boy.
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Originally posted by Mightytboy
More like they went home because he was no longer in power and the hostage takers were afraid a real man was becoming president and they better watch out.
I'd bet that the death of the Shah and the 1981 Algiers Accords were more important than Reagan.
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If you want a good take on the whole Iranian hostage crisis, read Mark Bowden's book Guests of the Ayatollah. It will give you an idea of how impotent Carter was as a president when faced with a very serious foreign policy incident.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'd bet that the death of the Shah and the 1981 Algiers Accords were more important than Reagan.
Don't let facts get in the way of the ranting now.
Always makes me laugh when people ostensibly on the political right rag on Carter when many of the current middle-east policies they're typically so keen to defend originated with his administration, as well as certain actions for which Reagan is often given full credit.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Don't let facts get in the way of the ranting now.
Always makes me laugh when people ostensibly on the political right rag on Carter when many of the current middle-east policies they're typically so keen to defend originated with his administration, as well as certain actions for which Reagan is often given full credit.
Doesn't suprise me in the least. Just look at the ignorance of the history of their own ideological movement every time discussion of the term "neoconservative" comes up. It'd be funny, if they didn't vote.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Doesn't suprise me in the least. Just look at the ignorance of the history of their own ideological movement every time discussion of the term "neoconservative" comes up. It'd be funny, if they didn't vote.
I voted for Carter, the first time. Fool me once... well, you won't fool me again.
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Now you know how I feel about Dubya. :)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Doesn't suprise me in the least. Just look at the ignorance of the history of their own ideological movement every time discussion of the term "neoconservative" comes up. It'd be funny, if they didn't vote.
The ironic thing is you actually believe your opinion has a shred of credibility....
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one could arguably claim that the seeds for the unprecedented attacks by islamofacist homicide bombers on American soil were sown during the carter administration and subsequently watered and tended to by the clinton administration. anything mr carter has to say about any topics other than building houses for the "underprivildged" (as if there is such a thing) could be dismissed out of hand.
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For all you Funked types.
Lets look at the history of the appeasers.
4 words sum it up nicely.
Peace in our time.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bodhi
The ironic thing is you actually believe your opinion has a shred of credibility....
Why ? he prooved in the past to be able to thing whne some people registred since mars 2001 have yet to proove.
yep , that's me !
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Originally posted by straffo
Why ? he prooved in the past to be able to thing whne some people registred since mars 2001 have yet to proove.
yep , that's me !
Is there a key somewhere I need to get to decipher that? :p
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Originally posted by straffo
Why ? he prooved in the past to be able to thing whne some people registred since mars 2001 have yet to proove.
yep , that's me !
je no parly fransay.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Carter is a tool...
Carter is not a tool, he is a one term moron that lost to an actor in a landslide.
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Carter was a lousy president. Unless you compare him to Chimpler.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
Carter is not a tool, he is a one term moron that lost to an actor in a landslide.
That's what he WAS, NOW he's a tool :D
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Carter was a lousy president. Unless you compare him to Chimpler.
lol, yeah, let's compare the two... carter does not stand a chance against GW.
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Smirk has definitely got him beat on civilian body count.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Smirk has definitely got him beat on civilian body count.
LOL, thats all you have? Tool boy had no balls, let a group of American Embassy personnel rot over a year in Iran... yeah... thats rich!
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Originally posted by Bodhi
LOL, thats all you have? Tool boy had no balls, let a group of American Embassy personnel rot over a year in Iran... yeah... thats rich!
[slingblade voice] We hates us our Jimmy Carter ... mmmm ... yeah. But we still likes them thar french fried puhtaters. mmmmm .... And thet ther George. mmmmm ..... We likes us thet ther George. [/slingblade voice] ;)
Sure, George woulda done much better. Woulda invaded Iran and fixed it all in a week. MhhhHmmmm. And give `em french fried puhtaters. :D
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::swims up and see's:: " Jimmy Carter"
::Thinks:: Now there is one of the largest stinky baits I have ever seen.
I wont even look for the hook
::swims away::