Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mars01 on August 30, 2006, 09:41:39 AM
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Maybe this has been thought out before, I didn't have any luck in search tho.
The Problem: Too many people overwhelming a field where the defending numbers are low or non existent.
1) Put a limit on the number of planes based on a weighted scale and a percentage.
For example:
0 the numbers in the area a equal.
-1 to -n the numbers for your country are lower than enemy.
1 to n the numbers for your country are greater than the enemy for the area in question.
2) When the weights reach a percentage that is defined as a hored, limit or deny the plane set from the supporting fields, in that area, of the overwhelming country.
This should have the intended affect of making the overflow of people move to another area of the map or wait for the numbers to equalize.
Of course people that just have to be part of the whorde can up from a base farther away that is enabled.
This could change the way maps are designed and involve more tactics other than just pure numbers and overwhelming the opponent.
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Sounds good. It's similar to a formula used when you're writing simple AI routines. It works best in strategy games (especially turn based) for discovering troop densities. Basically, take an array (2d or 3d) and give it a value of '1' if that position in the array has somebody in it. The next loop through the array checks each position, if the value = 1, check each side of it. Increment the value once for each side that has somebody in it.
In a flat, 2d environment, which guys setup like this.. (assume x = little guy & o = empty spot)
xooxo
oxxxo
oxxxo
oxxxo
ooxox
You'd end up with an array that looked like:
20030
04640
06960
04640
00402
Therefore, the highest value is a current hotspot, and game rules can be applied accordingly. It works in 3d too. The only difference is the numbers are bigger, and adjusting the range values to check positioning takes a few more lines of coad.
Primitive, but it works.
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Originally posted by mars01
Maybe this has been thought out before, I didn't have any luck in search tho.
The Problem: Too many people overwhelming a field where the defending numbers are low or non existent.
1) Put a limit on the number of planes based on a weighted scale and a percentage.
For example:
0 the numbers in the area a equal.
-1 to -n the numbers for your country are lower than enemy.
1 to n the numbers for your country are greater than the enemy for the area in question.
2) When the weights reach a percentage that is defined as a hored, limit or deny the plane set from the supporting fields, in that area, of the overwhelming country.
This should have the intended affect of making the overflow of people move to another area of the map or wait for the numbers to equalize.
Of course people that just have to be part of the whorde can up from a base farther away that is enabled.
This could change the way maps are designed and involve more tactics other than just pure numbers and overwhelming the opponent.
Expect a mass of "You want to force me to play the game your way!" commentaries shortly Mars :)
I'm afraid too many folks find their comfort and fun in the horde, as silly as that sounds. As long as multi-kill "attaboys" and win the reset/ land grab is the key, the horde will remain. Much easier to get 10 vulch kills and think you've won something with the reset that way.
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Hey now, I was under the weather when I got those 11 vulches! I had a bad head cold and couldn't function normally! I was justified! lmao :)
Overall I think you're right, though.
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You can't be serious. For those that like to organize large strikes (a "horde") and want to go for bases then overwhelming numbers are important and realistic. Many RL doctrines call for 2 or 3 times your opponent's numbers, that's life. If you don't like flying in a horde (I'll bet you have, haven't you?) then don't. Remember, one man's "horde" is another man's mutual support :-) If you don't like being on the receiving end then move to a different field or wait them out. It's fun to up at a field at the tail end of a horde after many are RTB and out of rounds after shooting up everything important or unimportant. It's also fun to launch with a counter horde from an adjacent field and slaughter all the porkers and vulchers. I'll sometimes fly in a horde, particularly when my squad wants everyone together but I don't care much about capturing fields unless we're at a major disadvantage and the whole country is pushed back to a few fields. I'll typically fly either alone or with one or two squadmates and have no trouble finding smaller engagements.
Mace
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make it so you need 30+ troops to capture, harden the CVs to somewhat more realistic levels. CVs were very difficult to sink in the big un (dubya-dubya two) IIRC only six CVs were ever lost to direct enemy action. wouldn't hurt to have an additional VH at or near the town and to allow certain planes to be upped outta the VHs. add manable 88mm AAA and there you may have a formula to create fights and stop the potatoding (good phrase btw)
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Originally posted by storch
make it so you need 30+ troops to capture, harden the CVs to somewhat more realistic levels. CVs were very difficult to sink in the big un (dubya-dubya two) IIRC only six CVs were ever lost to direct enemy action. wouldn't hurt to have an additional VH at or near the town and to allow certain planes to be upped outta the VHs. add manable 88mm AAA and there you may have a formula to create fights and stop the potatoding (good phrase btw)
To go with that, why not have Satellite fields nearby that fighters up from? More often then not, any airfield had 'fighter strips' nearby so it wasn't just one field that had to be put out of action.
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Originally posted by Mace2004
You can't be serious. For those that like to organize large strikes (a "horde") and want to go for bases then overwhelming numbers are important and realistic.
Mace
I think you'll find the horde exists without direction. It's the natural tendency for players to gravitate towards the largest fight. Large missions are the exception, not the rule.
To solve the large mission problem... A 1 minute wait between density calculations lets the entire horde up what they want for the attack. It wouldn't even effect vulchers taking off after the horde, because of the propensity to vulch in high ENY airframes to farm perks. Once the first few people pancake/ack death/rtb, the density spreads out, removing ENY restrictions from fields contributing to horde.
I wouldn't be suprised if HT already uses something similar to vector AI in ToD.
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Here's a flaw:
Base arrangement: A--B--C
A & C belong to country A
B belongs to country B
Horde leaves out of B to attack C. Your proposal would place a restriction on base B.
Country A sees the horde approaching C and since they are smart and know about the new "anti-horde" gizmo, they do not up at C to defend. Instead they up at A and attack B...fighters cannot up at B so they will cap B quickly, drop the VH, bring in the troops and take B.
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Originally posted by indy007
I think you'll find the horde exists without direction. It's the natural tendency for players to gravitate towards the largest fight. Large missions are the exception, not the rule.
That's absolutely true, there are many reasons hordes develop; missions (both formal and informal), desire for a numbers advantage, desire to help take a base (or defend), newbies who are going with the crowd...lots of reasons. My point is so what? There are always other places you can go when a horde shows up. The only legitimate argument you can make against them is that you're trying to defend a particular field and they want to take it. If they send sufficient numbers...you lose. Not really sufficient reason to impose yet more unrealistic numerical rules on the game. Staying with a group, even very large groups, is a valid strategy, just because someone else thinks the group is "too large" isn't justification to prevent them from doing it.
Mace
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Originally posted by Donzo
fighters cannot up at B so they will cap B quickly, drop the VH, bring in the troops and take B.
Your situation already happens. The only difference would be available fighters. There are fighters with high ENY. Not only do they get kills, but they're virtual favorites for point defense. That's not even bothering to mention the IL2 "attack/bomber" defense.
In other words, your flaw doesn't matter... Try looking at your line this way...
Country A sees the horde approaching C and since they are smart and know there is no "anti-horde" gizmo, they do not up at C to defend. Instead they up at A and attack B...fighters can up at B, but they're low, slow, and about to die.
Pretty much the same scenario as you described, whether the system was in place or not. When that situation happens, the fighter escort for the mission should have more than enough guys to CAP their own base. If horde missions were that important to people, they'd be doing it anyways to make sure ord & troops stay up.
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Originally posted by Mace2004
That's absolutely true
Mace
I'm not complaining about the horde. I don't care what side I'm on, how unbalanced numbers are, or how many la7/spit16s are chasing my poor wittle n1k... I just like fighting.
That said, if an idea doesn't sound ridiculous, I'll help somebody flesh it out. It's not like he asked for B29s & n00000ks :)
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ohhhhhh...B29's.....n00ks.....now we're talking. This would probably even reduce the need for a horde to take a base...just n00k it and no one can use it for 50 yrs.:eek:
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Soooo..... we should take fields without overwhelming them? Sounds like a good way for a map to drag on.
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I'll start from the bottom up
Soooo..... we should take fields without overwhelming them? Sounds like a good way for a map to drag on.
No you should take bases, by fighting for them. Overwhelming numbers is not fighting. You want to play a game where all you do is take real estate, play monopoly.
:aok
http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/ (http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/)
Man why is so hard for people to understand this game is about the fight, not just flying from base to base unopposed.. [rollseyes]
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Well Put Mars:aok We can onley hope some will get over the land grab part and just have fun fighting in the air or Gv, not 15 sets of B17`s comeing to your base with 20 or so spit16 and La7 or what ever they fancy:O I can undersatnd having a wing man but not half the country:eek:
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Here's a flaw:
Base arrangement: A--B--C
A & C belong to country A
B belongs to country B
Horde leaves out of B to attack C. Your proposal would place a restriction on base B.
Country A sees the horde approaching C and since they are smart and know about the new "anti-horde" gizmo, they do not up at C to defend. Instead they up at A and attack B...fighters cannot up at B so they will cap B quickly, drop the VH, bring in the troops and take B.
No the weight only holds when the numbers in a certain area are overly lopsided. Once the fighters up from A they are equaling the numbers in the area and thus fighters may be open at B to defend depending on the ratio.
But honestly, indy is right this can happen now and does.
So you can launch large attacks, everyone up at the same time, but the follow up numbers to continue saturating the area detered. Therefore the guys that just look for the largest friendly dar bar and jump in will be the only ones affected. Thus reducing the size and lenght of time you can sustain the horde.
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You can't be serious. For those that like to organize large strikes (a "horde") and want to go for bases then overwhelming numbers are important and realistic. Many RL doctrines call for 2 or 3 times your opponent's numbers, that's life. If you don't like flying in a horde (I'll bet you have, haven't you?) then don't. Remember, one man's "horde" is another man's mutual support :-) If you don't like being on the receiving end then move to a different field or wait them out. It's fun to up at a field at the tail end of a horde after many are RTB and out of rounds after shooting up everything important or unimportant. It's also fun to launch with a counter horde from an adjacent field and slaughter all the porkers and vulchers. I'll sometimes fly in a horde, particularly when my squad wants everyone together but I don't care much about capturing fields unless we're at a major disadvantage and the whole country is pushed back to a few fields. I'll typically fly either alone or with one or two squadmates and have no trouble finding smaller engagements.
Overwhelming numbers are only needed for those that cant fight! :aok
Read my sig, the quote from Hub, on real life. :aok
You want realism? Kill yourself the next time you get shot down. I'll take fun and balanced gameplay with slightly reduced realism.
This is a game, one I would hope that promote Air to Air combat. Unfortunately today it just promotes gangs of dweebs, ganging up on people looking for a fight.
If you don't like being on the receiving end then move to a different field or wait them out.
As if this were an option most nights? LOLH:rofl
It's also fun to launch with a counter horde from an adjacent field and slaughter all the porkers and vulchers.
Still possible and would be more probable with the change I am suggesting.
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Originally posted by storch
make it so you need 30+ troops to capture, harden the CVs to somewhat more realistic levels. CVs were very difficult to sink in the big un (dubya-dubya two) IIRC only six CVs were ever lost to direct enemy action. wouldn't hurt to have an additional VH at or near the town and to allow certain planes to be upped outta the VHs. add manable 88mm AAA and there you may have a formula to create fights and stop the potatoding (good phrase btw)
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To go with that, why not have Satellite fields nearby that fighters up from? More often then not, any airfield had 'fighter strips' nearby so it wasn't just one field that had to be put out of action.
I love the satellite fields Idea!
Although harder objects might make the Capture job harder it would emphasize the need for the horde more than it is now.
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Restricting peoples ability to up a particular plane/gv from a particular field will not solve the issue. I twill only generate a huge amount a discontent. Look at the whines we get when ENY kicks in.
The real issue is map design. There are some real flaws IMO in some of the maps we are using. Bases are to far away, air fields surrounded by 4 vehical fields, etc.. This only engourages the potatoding and discourages the defenders. What I have seen is when you have to fly a sectors and a half to get to the capped field most people won't do it. When I have, I am ussually 1 of about 2 or 3 players who show up to try and defend.
Not only that but maps that never go anywhere. The current map that thankfully will end today is one that the battle just doesn't progress, it stagnates. Most of the engagements are all in the same places and it results in one side potatoding the other in one spot and the opposite in some other.
It's unfortunate that map disign, from what I've read, is not an easy thing to do.
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I agree with everything except this Cliff,
Restricting peoples ability to up a particular plane/gv from a particular field will not solve the issue. I twill only generate a huge amount a discontent. Look at the whines we get when ENY kicks in.
The proposed, only restricts people in that specific area, they still have the rest of the map to do anything they want.
The goal would be to have many smaller hordes all over the map, and hopefully increase the number of defending hordes due to more manageable numbers in a specific area.
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Mars,
Would it be acceptable to you for a small force to take out all the FH's at surrounding bases in order to take a base? In other words, no horde rolling over bases...just planned surpression of defenses in the area.
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Originally posted by mars01
I agree with everything except this Cliff,
The proposed, only restricts people in that specific area, they still have the rest of the map to do anything they want.
The goal would be to have many smaller hordes all over the map, and hopefully increase the number of defending hordes due to more manageable numbers in a specific area.
I'm not saying your idea is good or bad just that I am pretty sure what the reaction would be. One need only read these boards when ever something like this is put in place to see that.
They will listen to no explination regarding how it works or why it is needed they will only see it as affecting them and they don't like it.
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Originally posted by mars01
Man why is so hard for people to understand this game is about the fight, not just flying from base to base unopposed.. [rollseyes]
I don't know about that. I've never had a hard time finding a fight in the MA.
"Oh, look that base is undefended, I'm going in, wont' that be fun! "
Perhaps I just don't go looking for that type of play. If you're looking for a fair fight try one of the other arenas like the DA, play a CAP, king of the hill or a scenario.
If you don't like Monopoly, don't play it, there are options. I think HT has done a great job to cater to the community.
I've never had a problem taking on LA7s or Spit 16s in my HurrIIC which has been plane of choice lately. Most guys in the MA don't know how to fly em anyway.
Come on over, I'll show you how to play monopoly and manage not to take any real-estate at all.
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Mars,
Would it be acceptable to you for a small force to take out all the FH's at surrounding bases in order to take a base? In other words, no horde rolling over bases...just planned surpression of defenses in the area.,
I am not against the Base Capture, even tho I don't like it. I understand there are those that do, so have at it. Yeah it's acceptable and to a degree defendable. Still sucks for those that want to fight, but hey they are supposed to be big maps right. :aok
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true about possibly creating even more hording but there would be more stuff with which to resist. they would need to cap two fields fairly far for capping puposes but not for responing defenders. also the attacks would need to be simultaneous for a shut out. consider our current VH set up as compared to the previous ones in AH1. now imagine three hangers but about 1km away from each other. 1 buff could not take out all three easily. now if from this base we could up single engined fighters? the actual fighting might be better. then again who knows, I'm often wrong about stuff.
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How Junior are you Motor? What is your ingame Id?
Most guys that fly in the horde don't have a problem finding a fight, because they really aren't looking for one, nor would know a good one if they were in it, cause they would most likely be dead in one turn.
I don't care about fair fights either, just manageable. I don't mind going into 10 V 1, especially against potatod mongers cause they aren't that good anyway.
The problem is when it bleeds past 10 guys, I'm just getting the upper hand in a 10 V 1 and then in come 5 more guys that just pick what the 10 guys couldn't get done. Yeah that is fun. [rollseyes]
I don't need lessons from you either, I have played this game since Feb 02. I have wathced it go from and all out Fighter game, where the general Air to Air skills were much higher and more valued, to lower skilled, boring land grab, potatod warrior game - but thanks for the offer. :aok
Come on over, I'll show you how to play monopoly and manage not to take any real-estate at all.
Been there done that, and without the horde, I'd rather just fight.
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Storch,
We kinda got what you are talking about when we moved to AHII. I thought the same way. Things were hardened and made bigger, and that just created bigger potatods, and hanger dropping.
I would like to see, at least, the ability to reload at VH bases. Upping from them would be even better.
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Originally posted by mars01
Maybe this has been thought out before, I didn't have any luck in search tho.
The Problem: Too many people overwhelming a field where the defending numbers are low or non existent.
1) Put a limit on the number of planes based on a weighted scale and a percentage.
For example:
0 the numbers in the area a equal.
-1 to -n the numbers for your country are lower than enemy.
1 to n the numbers for your country are greater than the enemy for the area in question.
2) When the weights reach a percentage that is defined as a hored, limit or deny the plane set from the supporting fields, in that area, of the overwhelming country.
This should have the intended affect of making the overflow of people move to another area of the map or wait for the numbers to equalize.
Of course people that just have to be part of the whorde can up from a base farther away that is enabled.
This could change the way maps are designed and involve more tactics other than just pure numbers and overwhelming the opponent.
OK I'v taken the bait. From a guy that promotes the "furball" so much your post is way off. :rolleyes:
I have seen nothing but "furball" and anti "Strat" posts from yourself and now your suggesting restricting the amount of "targets" for a potencial "furball". :lol
I'm not promoting the "Hord" nor am I dismissing the "Mission Planer" but as has been previously said. One side needs to out number the other 2,3 & 4 times to 1 for an effective 1 attack capture.
There is an ability to use "mission planer" in this game and I'm sure HTC will be accepted beyond the pearly gates for his sin. As for the "mission planner" there is alot more to it than just setting a mission / hord, depending upon ones view, and thats gaining recognition with ones peers. Every man and his dog at some time has set a mission but if your not "recognised" no one joins. So mission planners need to prove thier ability, their standing in the game,let alone win the capture in a well planed way.
Getting to be accepted as the person known as a good mission planner takes a very long time and for this reason I applaud them as do others.
I do not agree with your suggestion. It's just some feeble attempt to do down the MA from a guy (you)with just 7 hrs this TOD, 9 hrs last TOD and 6 hrs previous to that. If you spent more time in the game than typing about it folks may pay some attention. Do you really need to be told that the M A J O R I T Y are happy with the MA as it is ? For the little time you spend on this Hobby would the 8 man "furball" free arenas be more to your cup of tea ?
Excuse me being personal or rude but your flogging a dead horse.
;)
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Originally posted by mars01
I love the satellite fields Idea!
Although harder objects might make the Capture job harder it would emphasize the need for the horde more than it is now.
This was kind of my thought, thrown together fast obviously. You end up with a larger airfield system in a sector, but again that was common. Tangmere for example had Westhampnett as one of it's satelite fields during the B of B and beyond. The 5th AF base at Port Morseby had numerous strips in the area for the same reasons. With VHs near the "Fighter Strips", at least you could be rolling Flaks if need be since the VH usually goes right away in base taking. A lot tougher to coordinate hitting 3 VHs instead of 1.
I'd even go so far as to make the fighter fields undestroyable so that fighters can always launch regardless of Hangers being down. If the main fields hangers are dead it's going to force folks to cap all three in some regards, thus thinning the crowd a bit. The capture is the main base so you'd end up with the satilite fields if you really got it.
I suppose it's going to encourage the vulchers, but at least they might have to work for it, and it gives the defenders a chance to fight back regardless in support of the larger field. And if you have VHs at the fighter strips and even manned acks, the vulchers are at risk while the fighters are rolling.
All the 'coordinated mission' disciples would really have to work together then.
(http://www.furballunderground.com/gallery2/data/media/21/Fields.jpg)
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I dunno man, it seems like everyone has a different idea of fun. A lot of new folks don't really want to come online, fight one-on-one engagements against the older players and get spanked all the time; they want to get kills too. They horde to get them. Sure, only one of those guys is going to get the kill, but they all think "this time it'll be me!" as they zoom in for the Nth time.
The game IS supposed to be about air combat... and bombing missions, and GVing, and naval operations of a sort... Yet at least once a week someone has a gripe that a certain aspect doesn't perform the way THEY want it to. Usually the BKs lead the charge against that person, so it's odd to see one of you on the other side. I don't think you can change this sort of thing without changing the people first. The new people that come on and ask, usually in caps, "HOW DO I FLY" and get answered by "Alt-F4" probably don't want to learn ACMs; they want a point-and-shoot FPS. Seems like a lot of those people coming here and the people who've been here for a while have to deal... either that or chase the n00bs away or teach them.
This kind of thing, mars, it seems like you can **** in your left hand and then wish that the horde will disappear in your right and see which fills up first. Hell, I'm still waiting for more strat targets to come back, so I'm doing the same.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/dichotomy/ahfight-1.gif)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
Dicho that's great.
Bronk
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thanks :)
Bored at work :D
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Originally posted by Dichotomy
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/dichotomy/ahfight.gif)
:aok
You just forgot the "mines bigger" - scene :D.
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There are two kinds of potatods.
potatod 1) These are a product of the Mission Planner. Lots-of-luck changing this.
potatod 2) These are a function of the map. How far do I have to fly? Where are there enemies? Do I have resources I need at my launch base? Is the vehicle spawn close to the enemy base and is it too difficult to use? Where's the CV? These all relate to finding a quick, easy fight to get into.
It seems that when ever theres a "tank town" of "fighter town" we have happy players. At least untill the buffs show up to close the base. (ban buff groups at TT and FT) These features seem to fulfill the needs of furballers and armored players.
Even with TT and FT you have a problem with potatod 1 and 2. Just not as much.
My suggestion for improving overall game play is further disperse the game.
Why not put some feature play in the more remote areas of the map? Use the example of "Fighter Town" only make it a historical matchup. Or put a "King of Bunkers Hill" feature on the map. A really difficult base to capture. An island with some serious shore batteries and protected approaches on the beach heads. (The base name should change to reflect who captured it.)(I like Killjoy's island)
Feature play like these take nothing away from furballing or tank play, but they make for more interesting options and disperse the potatod.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
:aok
You just forgot the "mines bigger" - scene :D.
edited just for you Schatzi :)
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Originally posted by Arcades057
Usually the BKs lead the charge against that person
:rolleyes: Gee, I never saw a remark like this coming.
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Face it...the majority of the time the hoard approach WORKS. Please read Tsun-su's "Art of War". Sure, it's millenia old strategies, but they work. Bring overwhelming numbers to bear--there IS saftey in numbers.
The hoard that works together and STAYS together as a TEAM takes the most bases, AND brings about a psychological advantage.
My only complaint is how unbelieveably lopsided the country numbers can be; example: Rooks: 169 players, Bishops: 149 Players, Knights: 120 players...that was last Saturday afternoon, Chicago Time.
It's amazing what an extra 50 players over an opposing side can do in a battle, but it's been a major problem since Air Warrior. People get sick of getting ganged by overwhelming numbers and defect to the bigger side.
The next thing you know the smaller country keeps getting smaller and smaller as players get frustrated and leave...sometimes even dumping their subscriptions.
Sadly, I understand that there IS no soloution.
ROX
PigStompers
347th Fighter Group
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This has been discussed adnausium, and HT has said it is not something that is going to happen. Geez, the I cant defend a field so only X enemy should be able to attack it...yea...thats a great idea.:rofl
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SYSTEM: I see your flying towards A12
SYSTEM: You are not allowed to fly to A12
SYSTEM: No soup for you. Back to the tower!
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Silly idea follows...
Maybe we should fix the strat ?
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Originally posted by LePaul
Silly idea follows...
Maybe we should fix the strat ?
:lol That's funny.
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AH2's version of the "Easy Button" = InstaHorde
why bother with anything else, if it requires effort to gain..................
truly sad..........:(
seriously, I think we need another Arena, but it would end up like the FR / RR scenario, only diehard Air Combat types who look for a good fight would fly, with the majority staying in the "Land grab without a fight" arena, because the Insta Horde ( again AH2's version of the "Easy Button" ) is simply easy/lazy and no effort is needed..........
HTC probably does not want to support another arena for the old time die hard players of old, not enough of us left, dieing breed, welcome to the millenium:furious
might I add, the old FR arena still had squads/players fighting for turf, but we actually fought and did not need a 10/15/20 to 1 odds to do it, and most of us still don't need it and don't want it.......but minority groups in online MPG's never get anywhere when asking for something to be changed or done about a serious situation involving gameplay..........
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I don't think anyone is banned from using the AvA. Why not recruit more people to go there instead of trying to change the unchangeable?
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Ava has a limited planeset that doesnt always suit me. And during Euro times its mostly deserted anyway.
But if you want good fights, DA is still a place you can go. If i do not like the fights in MA, that or the TA is the place i go.
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Here is a silly thought.
Why not have the SEA set to donut with mid war AC ? Well... when no event is running anyway. :D
The arena gets little use when no event is on.
I think it would be easy enough for staff to leave it that way after each event.
Bronk
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Closer feilds would do it... all at 3/4 of a sector apart. The other thing would be to have the towns a little farther from the fields and the fields have about 2 or 3 times as much ack and most of that manable so that it was allmost impossible to vultch runways.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Geez, the I cant defend a field so only X enemy should be able to attack it...yea...thats a great idea.
Translation - "Geez all I do is fly in the potatod, I am a potato, so I don't see any problem, so I am keeping my head in the sand...yea...thats a great idea."
Take your maroon visor off and re-read the post - as long as numbers are close to equal things are status quo. Once the numbers reach a predetermined imbalance know as a Horde the restrictions take affect for a certain area of bases. If you really need to fight in that potatod you can up from a field outside of the affected area and fly to the Whorde if you must.
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A separate arena while a good idea in thought seems to never work in reality. Now a Furball only Special Event occasionaly could actually have some merrit.
Not flying around for half an hour while you wait for the other guys to fly to where the prospects of a fullball might be for a few seconds, if everyone finds each other.
The MA is the fighting ground, that won't change until CT is out, hopefully.
Yeah the DA can be fun, but it doesn't offer the Dynamic environment the MA can once in a long while. Unless a decent map is up then the odd are better.
I do agree most of the problems could be fixed with closer fields, stronger and larger numbers of AA and Allowing the AI AA to be manable as well as AI if not occupied.
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Just a comment, but dont you guys think that any effort to "harden" anything will just make the horde bigger, not smaller? because they need an even larger horde to capture?
Before they needed 20, now they know they need 50...they cant attack and defend at the same time, because you need to scrape everybody together just to take a base, so you make the current situation even worse, fattening up the Borg Blobs as they deal with the new reality.
We need Captain Picard. He knew what to do.
< Never thought I would say that, damn. ;)
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Just a comment, but dont you guys think that any effort to "harden" anything will just make the horde bigger, not smaller? because they need an even larger horde to capture?
I do agree, hardening is not the answer, but I would like to see carriers harder. Like you mentioned we saw this affect with AHII.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Here is a silly thought.
Why not have the SEA set to donut with mid war AC ? Well... when no event is running anyway. The arena gets little use when no event is on.
I think it would be easy enough for staff to leave it that way after each event.
Bronk
[/SIZE]
That sounds reasonable......
It'll never happen. :(
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Best part about using the SEA is...
1.CM's can disable all but center fielda on donut.
2. CM can diable anything that carries troops.
4. CM can disable all buffs
5. CM can disable all gv
6. Increase aaa lethality to discourage vulchers.
7. Crank Hanger hardness so the inevitable tards don't 110 them to death.
I don't see how HT would have a problem with this.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Guppy35
To go with that, why not have Satellite fields nearby that fighters up from? More often then not, any airfield had 'fighter strips' nearby so it wasn't just one field that had to be put out of action.
This is the best idea I've ever heard on this board.
:aok
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this is poorly written, and not to well thought out...
i'd think making it easier to capture a base (or easier capture with even easier recapture) would work better than harder...hell, it might even lead to a more realistic use of heavy bombers. worth a shot anyway, since every attempt at making things harder to fix problems seems to just make it worse.
the base is already captured by the time slower half of the horde arrives, hordes need not be so big (or present at all, why send 20 planes when 10 will do).
if the horde moves as a single horde, by the time it captures the other team could have recaptured behind it...they'd have to leave some people behind to properly defend the base, or at least launch an attack on more than one base at once, splitting the horde.
it would be chaotic land trading with no-one getting anywhere for a couple weeks sure...but end result would be
the horde shrinks from one big horde, into a bunch of smaller hordes...the smaller hordes would be of lower numbers, that furball types could baby seal club, without being overwhelmed...
result being
the horde trys sending more people...but again, then they cant take and hold enough land if there wasting people...so they pretty much have to learn how to survive interception, either by hiding in groups of well armed bombers, and/or bringing a couple guys who can fight a bit to come and help them, and/or getting a bit of fighting skills themselves.
some discover they like fighting better than base capture, start exclusivly escorting or intercepting...then starts looking for furballs, or creates some when the escorted are dead, and the escorts are still alive.
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Originally posted by mars01
How Junior are you Motor? What is your ingame Id?
Nice, waiting for that comment. Been playing since 02 as well. Took a bit of time off lately. Current handle is "MoterOil".
I think what a lot of guys don't use are tactics. If you run into a horde situation don't go in unless you want to get shot down by ten guys. Personally, I like to pick my battles. It takes time and patience but it pays off with landed kills in the end. Or you do go into the horde and see how many you can take with you.
Stay high and pick off the guys that are coming to meet you or drag some guys out of the horde and have your fight. Doesn't work all the time but what choice to you have in small numbers against the horde. I've had some awesome 2 on 1s or 1 on 1s doing this.
Get yourself a wingman. I've gone in with a good wingman and the two of us have shut a field down completely coming back with 5 + kills each. Those are great fights.
The MA isn't a game like Unreal Tournament where you just run in by yourself and hope to shoot the guy before he gets you. I understand your point but there is a certain ( I say this loosely) realistic component to AH. You just have to adapt to the situation.
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motoroil, he doesnt care about landing kills, and he picks his battles to be as much of a test of his fighting prowess as he can find. he goes into a fight expecting to win, he goes through the fight trying to shoot the other guy(s) down, but if he loses, so what, the other guys either outnumbered him or was simply better. if he wins, all the better, less flying to get to the next fight.
no, its not like unreal tournament, the other guy cant shoot you if your behind him, and stay behind him. that takes skill, not just fast reflexes and a good computer rig.
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Sorry Vort you're missing my point.
I'm assuming a good fight is one you can dog in for a while and come out on top, then you are going to come back and land and do it all over again. Don't alway win it's the fight that matters. That's what majority of the players look for.
UT is more of an arcade style gameplay is my point. AH has a "real" component which is why partially why the game is the way it is. Also part of the reason Mars doesn't like it. Totaly valid. You can't just up a plane and find yourself in a good fight. If you get ganged raped it makes that long flight seem all the more misrerable. Again I agree.
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I'm assuming a good fight is one you can dog in for a while and come out on top, then you are going to come back and land and do it all over again. Don't alway win it's the fight that matters. That's what majority of the players look for.
I disagree with what is in bold. The majority of players today are looking for the easy, skilless kill, otherwise they would leave the whordes and safety of the numbers, learn to fight from a disadvantage and not pass fights when they have the advantages. As Dan said, guys in spits will pass over less able planes just to go for the vulch rather then fight with all the cards.
AH has a "real" component which is why partially why the game is the way it is. Also part of the reason Mars doesn't like it.
When real pilots from WWII were asked what it was like, they would say hours and hours of boredom sprinkled with mins of shear terror.
If that is the "real" component you are talking about then you are right. Any game where this component is modeled would and will be a failure.
Honestly Motor, vorticon nailed it on the head.
Your idea of the game you play, presented in your last post, is playing it safe, fight from a perch etc. None of this is furballing.
Yeah I could up a plane, fly around cautiously looking for the right fight, only engaging when I feel all the cards are in my hand , yadda yadda yadda. Not my kind of game. Done it enough, bored to death with that kind of flying.
You continue to approach this as if I am missing something when the only thing missing are the furballs.
BTW I kinda remember you from older times, thought that might be you.
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Unfortunately, with a majority of the newer players, and even with some of the older players now, the path of least resistance is the one that yields the most vulches and spawncamps for the least amount of effort and the lowest possible risk. The like this, and this is what keeps them paying. As long as it's profitable for HT and company, that's likely to be the way things remain.
HT will never force a certain style of play, and he's certainly not going to curtail the number of subscriptions. At this point, they're making money, probably like no other game in this genre ever has, and you're going to have a hard time arguing with a fat wallet.
Granted, I think it sucks, having played for about 5 years now, and having been around back when the community was a fraction of the size it is today. But, were I in his shoes, and given the opportunity, I'd trade 10 customers for 100 as well. The older mindset of fighting just to fight is still in the game, but it's no longer the core, as we're no longer the core of the community. Cartoon life's a *****, I guess. At least there's always a good fight on the bbs. ;)
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Ava has a limited planeset that doesnt always suit me. And during Euro times its mostly deserted anyway.
But if you want good fights, DA is still a place you can go. If i do not like the fights in MA, that or the TA is the place i go.
H311, during US Easter time it is mostly deserted.
Why not change it into an advance player arena, with wind and weather, no auto takeoff, no stall limiter, limited icon range.
Just a thought, but I doubt it would success any better.
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Granted, I think it sucks, having played for about 5 years now, and having been around back when the community was a fraction of the size it is today. But, were I in his shoes, and given the opportunity, I'd trade 10 customers for 100 as well. The older mindset of fighting just to fight is still in the game, but it's no longer the core, as we're no longer the core of the community. Cartoon life's a *****, I guess. At least there's always a good fight on the bbs.
Yeah, but HT doesn't have to trade anyone, all he has to do is make some simple changes that wont keep people from playing their game, but will bring back what the game has been lacking for a while.
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I've kind of stayed out of this but a thought occurred to me that didn't die of lonliness so I'm going to throw it out there and see what comes of it. Perhaps in the future they could create an arena that is dogfight only. 3 fields that are indestructable, limited plane set, etc etc etc. For you older guys that are frustrated with what the game has evolved to this would provide a viable solution and I doubt that the owners of the site (although I wouldn't presume to speak for them) want to see long standing customers dissatisfied. Customer retention is a basic premise of successful businesses world wide. Personally I'd probably spend more time in an area such as this regardless of my noobness as I do get a little frustrated upping and looking for an air battle and the only way to get one is dive into a hoarde and try to pick somebody out or up near a capped field.
Just my .02... it looks like, for the time being, it is what it is though.
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Originally posted by vorticon
this is poorly written, and not to well thought out...
i'd think making it easier to capture a base (or easier capture with even easier recapture) would work better than harder...hell, it might even lead to a more realistic use of heavy bombers. worth a shot anyway, since every attempt at making things harder to fix problems seems to just make it worse.
the base is already captured by the time slower half of the horde arrives, hordes need not be so big (or present at all, why send 20 planes when 10 will do)........
Vort, this is really an idea that has merit. The one thing we hardly ever see in this game is a captured field defended. If it was gong ot be recaptured them maybe it wouldn't always be the same players trying to defend it. (it always seems to be me and the same players defending fields)
I would not mind seeing the hoard trying to capture multiple fields instead of one.
Also maybe shorten the hanger rebuild time.
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Originally posted by Dichotomy
I've kind of stayed out of this but a thought occurred to me that didn't die of lonliness so I'm going to throw it out there and see what comes of it. Perhaps in the future they could create an arena that is dogfight only. 3 fields that are indestructable, limited plane set, etc etc etc. For you older guys that are frustrated with what the game has evolved to this would provide a viable solution and I doubt that the owners of the site (although I wouldn't presume to speak for them) want to see long standing customers dissatisfied. Customer retention is a basic premise of successful businesses world wide. Personally I'd probably spend more time in an area such as this regardless of my noobness as I do get a little frustrated upping and looking for an air battle and the only way to get one is dive into a hoarde and try to pick somebody out or up near a capped field.
Just my .02... it looks like, for the time being, it is what it is though.
HT has pretty much said that this will never happen.
I liked the SEA Donut idea for off scenario time.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
HT has pretty much said that this will never happen.
I liked the SEA Donut idea for off scenario time.
*shrug* figures
I also liked the SEA idea
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hmm how bout a map with 3 fields about a sector apart or seperated by a larg body of water. make the bases uncapturable and the vehicle spawns like 50 sectors away so the gv'rs can have their fun.
put some strat on the map 50 sectors in the OTHEr directions for the strat kids.
problem solved!! Im sure EVERYBODY will get behind this ASAP so HT please implement it post haste!! chop chop!!
:huh
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The problems not the horde, its the defenders. The guys who keep upping against impossible odds just to get vulched and picked are the problem. Thats what the horde feeds on. Getting their vulch and gang kills gives them some sense of accomplishment. Think about it.
When a swarm arrives go somewhere else, let them take the base, theyll all be flying around in a circle jerk with no chance to get kills or system messages. Who cares how many bases they take, when there are only a few bases left for one team, stop upping, the map will reset real fast. This way a horde flyer never gets a kill and will eventually venture from the womb out of sheer boredom.
Same goes for vulchers. If nobody upped when an enemy was in vulch range, nobody would get vulched and nobody would get vulch kills. Problem solved.
If you want to solve a problem you have to address its root cause and nip it in the bud. The heros actually create the dweebs.
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dang KONG, can I have your baby?
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Kong
(http://www.capitalj.com/images/ftjicons/beer.gif)(http://www.capitalj.com/images/ftjicons/beer.gif)(http://www.capitalj.com/images/ftjicons/beer.gif)(http://www.capitalj.com/images/ftjicons/beer.gif)(http://www.capitalj.com/images/ftjicons/beer.gif)(http://www.capitalj.com/images/ftjicons/beer.gif)
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The best way to break up a hoard is to open another front. No one says you have to up from a capped base, defend a targeted base or keep off the offense while a base is being attacked.
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most of my fighting is done from capped fields....its the only place I can consistently get ftrs to acually engage :lol
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yep...either make that ack super deadly and move the towns away from the airfields thereby making it harder to vultch or....
Go the other way and back to the "land on the runway and capture the field" way of field capture.... we might not have known how good we had it.
Even that won't work for long as even the dumbest figures out how to game the strat in a timid way after a few thousand hours...
I really think that what is needed is constant change as to how fields are captured.... every system works for a while..
The potatod guys are pretty stupid as a rule but even those dummies figure out a way to game the field capture if they keep banging their pointy little noggins at the problem long enough...
When the newest field capture came out... there was no hordes.
The bovine herd newbies who make up the horde are easily confused... any change and they end up wandering around for months looking for a leader who can come up with a new way to timidly overwhelm the strat.
Change the method of field capture and for a few months we will have good gameplay.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I posted an alternative on another thread here.
The Community can do something on it's own HTC shouldn't have to reconfigure his game for the whims of everyone singularly. Sometimes the Community can act on it's own with the tools it already has.
Axis vs Allies good idea...but not a wide variety of aircraft for the period.
Not enough choices of aircraft imho and that discouraged people from going there.
Read my post...if you like it and it suits you we can do this on a regular basis. If it doesn't it's your 15 dollars. We can play Aces High any way we choose to. It's up to the players to decide how and where they wish to play. Forcing gameplay on everyone wouldn't suit at least half the people here. The Community can decide. We've been given the tools...and maybe in the future depending on success more tools may be issued. But we won't know that until we've tried.
Gameplay is up to us.
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When a swarm arrives go somewhere else, let them take the base, theyll all be flying around in a circle jerk with no chance to get kills or system messages. Who cares how many bases they take, when there are only a few bases left for one team, stop upping, the map will reset real fast. This way a horde flyer never gets a kill and will eventually venture from the womb out of sheer boredom.
Yeah sometimes it works sometimes you spend a hour flying around hoping to run into someone and never do, becuase the bulk of the 600 people on are in three different potatods going in three different directions.
Hajo I am behind you 200%, but we have to organise it in a way that it will work in the MA and not some other arena. See my reply in your thread.
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The MA is anarchy by design. That means there are oportunities to create anything you want, anywhere you want, with a little lateral thinking.
Why not get on 200 and say that you want to start a furball between fields A and B? You might find some like-minded people on the other sides. Get the ball rolling and start something that becomes part of the Aces High culture.
Or, become involved more in the AvA Arena.
I don't think you're very good at convincing others on the BBS. It isn't your strength. Belittling people you are trying to convert to your way of thinking with cynical adjectives and asides doesn't work as well as good, old-fashioned tact.
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rolex... the building battlers would love to learn of a good fight so that they could take down the FH and end it. announcing it on 200 is a great way to end it.
The best fights in the MA happen before the whorde knows they exist. Allways between the closest fields to actualy.
Soon as the spoilers and attention grabbers see a fight they bomb one side or the others FH and say "look at me, aren't I special?"
The AvA.... it is allied vs axis which makes for some really boring fights and plane sets after an hour or so. The fights are there but they have no variety in em.
As for making fun of the guys that whorde... nothing wrong with shaming em... They need to be shamed. I get the feeling that they think no one notices what wussies they are. Best to get it out in the open.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
[
The potatod guys are pretty stupid as a rule but even those dummies figure out a way to game the field capture if they keep banging their pointy little noggins at the problem long enough...
When the newest field capture came out... there was no hordes.
The bovine herd newbies who make up the horde are easily confused... any change and they end up wandering around for months looking for a leader who can come up with a new way to timidly overwhelm the strat.
Change the method of field capture and for a few months we will have good gameplay.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's [/B]
:rofl
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There is no pleasing you BK's is there. Not 1 act, suggestion, other plan except planes at 10 paces, is going to tweak your buttons.
The MA ain't to your liking for a reason....HELLO ! Guys don't fly the game you like for a reason .... again..... HELLO !
You can piss and moan on the boards till hell freezes over. NOTHING will change untill you get off your arses and do summut about.
1) Build your own MA terrain and submit to HTC.
2) Start teaching guys how to fly. I'm sure there's plenty of guys that would love to take a ride in a BK's plane in the MA. Or ain't that hip ?
3) Use language in away that doesn't put folks down. Encourage rather than belittle.
4) Revive your squade night and show the world the "stuff". .
Now piss and moan about why you guys can't do at least 1 of these things. Piss away bullitin board heros... pi$$ away!
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LYNX, if you were new coming into the MA for the first time, what would you see? What would the impression be as to how you fit in, and what the norm is for play in the MA?
You suggest, less talk and more teaching. How many folks want to take the time to learn? I don't have an answer to that, just asking. My thought would be folks want to do something that comes easy and in their eyes gains them recognition quickly. People want to fit in, and right now horde warrior is how you fit in. I even saw guys on my side last night telling people to move the horde, using the horde term.
I think a lot of 'vets' try and help out where they can. I for one am not good at teaching flying, other then how to auger well :) I just do it, I can't give you descriptions of it. One of my squaddies, Delirium put out an offer on the help and training board to teach the 38. I tend to put my energies to help out, with info for the skinners. I like the fact that many of the skins I contributed information on, are now in the game. Raptor, another squadie does maps and helps with the scenario stuff. Silat is a trainer. The list goes on and on of folks contributing beyond just flying AH.
Sadly, the horde mentality is the fad of the day though and I don't see many folks wanting to change that as it is the path of least resistance.
As for pleasing the BK's. I'm not a BK, but it seems obvious to me that the guys from the BK's posting are expressing a vet's concern over the direction they see the game going. My fear is that because of their status/reputation in the game, that folks react to any BK tag and don't pay attention to the words. This isn't about the BKs, it's about the state of AH at the present time.
As the number of BK's actually flying dwindles down, as it has lately, it saddens me a bit as some good guys, who put a lot into the game and played it for the right reasons, are giving up on it. I have no problem with those sticking it out, trying to express the concerns of many about the state of the game.
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Guppy35 thanks for replying on behalf of the BK's, any others and yourself but I want to hear what the BK's are going to do about it.
Seems to me some of them spend more time on the boards than in the game. Piss and moan about the game but do bugger all about it other than ask others to fix it for THEM. Well that don't cut crap for me.
So rather than ask others what they will do to improve / change game play / terrain settup or whatever isn't to THEIR liking I want to know what THEY are prepared to do about it. If they are not prepared to stand on are they prepared to stfu.
I doubt they'll do anything other than the normal bullitin board fighting. The BK's were a worthy squad but like life, the game, things change... don't they boys ?:rolleyes:
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Oh no a tantrum from LYNX. OK BKs time to put our tail between our legs and run. LOLH, :rofl :rofl
There is no pleasing you BK's is there.
When have or has any tried pleasing us. Seriously are you dee de dee???
Not 1 act, suggestion, other plan except planes at 10 paces, is going to tweak your buttons.
Spoken like a true Horde monkey. You have no idea what we are talking about do you?? It's quite obvious from the above drivil. Keep going with that it's serving you well LOLH NOT!
Lynx, like Dan said this is not about the BKs it is about game play. So why would you make it a LYNX Vs the BKs issue once again?????
First I'll address your un-natural Hard On:
Seems to me some of them spend more time on the boards than in the game. Piss and moan about the game but do bugger all about it other than ask others to fix it for THEM. Well that don't cut crap for me.
You may have a hard on for the BKs, but who are you? I have never seen you in the game and don't think I ever fought you or if I have it must not have been that memorable. So does that make you any less of a player or have any less of an opinion on the BBS?? The only place I know you is on the BBs. So if I were as ignorant I would probably say "Seems to me LYNX spends more time on the boards than in the game."
But more apropos and what not seeing you in game means to me, is that you are most likely a Horde Hero or an Alt Monkey. Two games I don't play.
You don't like what we have to say FO. Post remarks on subject and leave the tantrum for your mother please. And who cares what cuts crap for you? Ohh No, we don't cut crap for LYNX - Time to disband the BKs. :rofl :rofl
I wish I saw your call out to the horde, you must be proud of yourself LOLH.
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Now I will address your questions hidden amongst your tantrum:
The fact is, there is little to do about it. HTC are the only ones that can do anything to affect this game at the game play level.
Heros like yourself would rather easy captures and landing vulches pretending your good, rather than fighting pilots and proving to yourself your any good. Because if you thought you were you wouldn't need the horde you would actually fight against it. :aok So changing the community isn't much of an option, unless you'll let me pay for you and the likes of you to get a Lobotomy or am I too late? :rofl
Training only goes so far, and maybe you don't have a life, but I do and I am lucky enough to get the time to play the game let alone schedule training sessions.
But on the other hand, if someone see's me online and wants to join or asks for some help I will always and have always done so. And there are far better people out there than I, if your looking for help. :rofl
We've organized Furballs etc, just like Hajo is doing. Unfortunately unless you do this in the MA and take away the need to schedule it for certain times it's not going to work any more than a few times. Where and why do you think the Furballunderground was started by Morph???
Make a terrain, Umm we have 2 or 3 great terrains, game play still sucks. Is it that hard for you to see that?
BKs don't have a squad night never did, not our style. But since you know so much about us and what a worthy squad we were LOLH, you would know that right? :rofl frofl
As for Language: I treat all those that show thought and respect in kind. I treat all those that respond like aholes, like aholes. Don't like it, dont be a bulls eye and post like an Ahole.
The MA ain't to your liking for a reason....HELLO ! Guys don't fly the game you like for a reason .... again..... HELLO !
Gee explain this for everyone here that agrees with what we are seeing in the MA please. Odds are you can't.
If you had any brains, you would have read and thought about what Dan was saying and realized all of the above, instead of post another whiny little tantrum.
You may not like us, and you may use that to pretend what we are saying is meaningless and hide behind our delivery as an excuse, but the bottom line is this game has changed for the worse for guys that like to fight. You don't fit that bill so I don't expect you to get it any time soon.
Now here's a cookie go back to playing with your Barbies LOLHAY
Dan you are the Man! :aok :D So is Del :D
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First of all it has nothing to do with the BK's or any certain squad. Has nothing to do with what country you fly with. I've logged on and off today 3 times. I've stayed one time for an hour to fight. The other times I looked at the map and said...maybe later. I left after that hour because Bish had equaled the amount of bases with the rooks and their were no fights of any consequence unless it was horde on horde.
Now.....no one can tell you how to play the game. It's every individuals right to play as he or she wishes. As they say it's your 15 dollars spend it as you wish. I understand having a comfort level by having many team mates around you while you take your first steps in Aces High. Hiding in numbers is safer, and if you fly an La7, Spit, P51 etc. it even makes your odds of survival greater. Sort of comfort blanket.
But here's the rub...I know when I was new in here, and Air Warrior before, I got my butt kicked on a regular basis...lol still do. But I learned a few things when I got into a 1 on 1...2 on 2 etc fight. I learned tactics...SA what move should I make to counter my opponents etc. You won't learn that in a huge number of protecting aircraft. You learn that when your back is up against the wall....you're in a Jug and the 109 you are fighting wants to nail your skin to his wall. You'll lose a lot learning...then one day you win and the "light" goes on.
Now those of you who like to fly in numbers it's your thing, have fun do it. But what I live for is the small evenly matched white knuckle fight where you and a few of your squadmates are engaged in an even fight or you are one on one with a good opponent. Ever notice sometimes after the first move you know this isn't a "schmuck" you're fighting? You know after the first move or two at most what you are up against. That's what I play for.
So...I won't criticize you for your type of enjoyment, please don't criticize me for mine. All I'm saying is look for those evenly matched fights....the ones you have to fight and not run from. You'll eventually experience a win and a great feeling knowing that all this time you've been playing this game you've finally found the key to it. You are now a worthy virtual Pilot. Not someone who hides in the Grandstands.
I just wish that some of the people here were involved in early Aces High. Not many people on in the begining and we hunted for fights. There were enough to make one horde...maybe. But the key was we fought, we won, we lost, we gained respect. Guys would stay out of fights like we did in the DA last night to let two opponents finish "THEIR" fight. No one dove in to pick it. The two were left alone to finalize the outcome. If you notice the text buffer most vets that have been on here 7 years or more are very friendly with one another and we don't fly on the same side? Do you ever wonder why that is so? You' see Whels, myself,Shamus,Rob53, Wilbuz, Straffo, Apar and many other vets here one another over 200. Again...do you wonder why? The reason is the respect that was earned years ago when this game was taking it's first steps as being the finest online flightsim. The respect was earned, and is still shown today between us. Now....if you want that same respect, you don't have to be here 7 years....you can be here two weeks. Go out and earn it!
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Spot on Haj, sad thing is these guys don't care. They want to take undefended bases and they don't care what it does to gameplay or the community or the game.
I guess some you just can't reach.
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Originally posted by mars01
Spot on Haj, sad thing is these guys don't care. They want to take undefended bases and they don't care what it does to gameplay or the community or the game.
I guess some you just can't reach.
If their gameplay style is to take undefended bases, so be it. Harping about isn't going to change a thing.
"They don't care what it does to gameplay." I would think that the way they play the game is just fine with them. Hence, it doesn't do anything to gameplay from their point of view. Or to the community. Or to the game.
They play the game how they wish to play it. Longing for the "Good Old Days" isn't going to make it come back. Never has.
Once upon a time AH was dominated by Furballers. That time is apparently past as the dominating force shifts to others who desire to play the game differently and the pure Furballer becomes a miniority. A vocal one perhaps, but none the less, a miniority.
I'm not saying one is better than the other and never has one camp convinced the other camp that their view is the golden way.
That being said, I never cared for the continuious hordes. A big mission was a different experience. One seldom sees a real mission anymore because there is already a hundred planes flying together. (Real Mission...not some noob saying somebody join my mission) A one on one for me is usually a go fast plane zipping by. Would I like to see more? (err...one on one, not more go fast planes) Sure. But I play the game for what it is.
Some think that when TOD come out that their prayers will be answered and the Main will shift back in time to the way it used to be. Personally, I don't think so. It may suck a few players out of the MA but I don't think that there will be a mass exodus of non-furball players leaving only the furball gamers.
Time has moved on and MA ain't what it usta was. Draw your own conclusions.
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Lye-el you're not understanding at all what I posted. I said if you read correctly play the way you want. I was just pointing out that greater gratification comes from learning how to fly combat in a virtual Fighter.
You learn combat not picking someone off while he's engaged. You learn how to maneuver and gain your opponents 6. When you're flying with 10 ,20, 30 other team mates you're like a shark feeding in a pack off someone elses maneuver. You don't learn how to out think your opponent by simply ho'ing him. When you fly with overwhelming numbers you rely on someone else, and your strength in numbers to insure your 6 is clear. When you are in a small fight....you're 6 is your responsibilty because the others involved are engaged and can't be concerned with you. When you have 20 fighters over a base vulching all you learn is that if you shoot a team mate kill shooter is enabled and you get damage.
All I'm pointing out is this. Learn.....learn by fighting in small numbers or alone. Learn your aircraft...play to it's strengths. Don't go in the vertical with a 109K4 at 15K in P47D40. You know that equal speed you'll stall and be meat. Fight your fight not your opponents and learn to force the fight on your terms if you possibly can.
Learning these things makes the game fun. Thats where the competition lies. Racking up kills by getting aircraft before they get their wheels up doesn't teach a thing. Getting kills when 15 of you dive on a runway to get uppers from capped base doesn't either.
Learn to fight. That's where the reward is. That is where respect is earned and the feeling of self gratification comes in. Yup, it's a game. But there are rewards to be earned other then some short sighted who play this game see.
Try it ya might like it. If you don't..as I said before do what you want! Not meaning you personally but all who play the game. The majority here have not seen that. They've not seen what went on 5 to 7 years ago. Just want to point out the fact that there are different ways to play the game. And since you pay you owe it to yourself to try them all:aok
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Hajo... what you just said is the reason I am a member. That's what I want to learn and try to improve on daily. However I'm going to voice something that has been rattling around in my head for the last couple of days (and I do not include you in the generalization because you came up with an alternative that I'm both impressed with and actively a part of).
It's not the message but the delivery that's important. A lot of people are coming on the boards and venting their frustration instead of making an effort to come up with viable solutions to the situation. Now there have been a lot of ideas posted and some with real merit but to come out and criticize how somebody else plays the game is not the way to get the message across.
I liken this to having somebody from a differing political party from yours showing up on your doorstep every morning and attempting to shove their point of view down your throat. At first a reasonable person will politely decline but, over time, the lines get drawn and you're going to tell that person to get off of your property before you take precipitous action (-5 spelling because it's late and I'm tired).
Furballers find SOLUTIONS to the situation rather than coming on the board and slamming the landgrabbers. They play their way we play ours. I've seen some seriously good ideas thrown out there that got lost in the flames back and forth. Perhaps that will at least bring some of the new people that join into the ranks of people who prefer aireal combat to landgrabbing and start the scales sliding back.
I'd say the same to landgrabbers.. If you know that a certain situation is, by gentelmans rule, not to be done.. respect it. Sure if you're new to the game you're going to make a mistake. Vets be sure to point it out. I surely don't mind when somebody points out something that I do is considered generally a no no.
I think, considering the relatively high IQ of most of the people here, a viable solution that does not require the intervention of Hitech or the coders can be found.
So let's put some ouf our considerable brain power into finding a solution to the 'problems' rather than throwing accusations and invective at each other.
Of course that's just my opinion
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Mars01 It seems your derisory ability truely blocks out your capacity to actually do anything about it. As I predicted you and your ilk are just gonna piss and moan on these boards. You will find any excuse, dumb down any suggestions........well just moan on:rolleyes:
Your like a Hampster on a wheel me old fruit cake. 2 thread in 2 days on the same topic just like 90% of all your other threads. The furrows on your wheel must be deep. Such a pitty your locked into it. Why don't you stand up and do something about it. It's a simple wittle titchy question ...... "Why don't you ?".
Here is, again, what I asked you, as the thread starter
1) Build your own MA terrain and submit to HTC.
2) Start teaching guys how to fly. I'm sure there's plenty of guys that would love to take a ride in a BK's plane in the MA. Or ain't that hip ?
3) Use language in away that doesn't put folks down. Encourage rather than belittle.
4) Revive your squade night and show the world the "stuff". .
From your reply all I see is side stepping. Nothing more than I predicted from you:rolleyes:
OK Mars01 we understand you don't like hoards, game play. blah blah blah. Unfortunatly thats how it is. Personally I don't like work but you know what? Thats how it is. Bugger me with a rasp till me ears bleed if I moan on here about my job but it ain't gonna make me like "work". Umm, possible I went to deep for you there.
Things have changed in the MA but you either roll with the punches or you do something about it. All your doing in your hampster wheel is pissing and moaning to the few. Here's another question for your simple side stepping pea head How many read the boards A) everyone or B) Some. You have a 50 50 chance to get that right or are you gonna side step that to. Of those that read BB's what difference will it make ?
Mars01 I couldn't give a rats arse if you know me or not. You clearly haven't a clue who I am, what I do, what I like in the game or dislike and whats more it doesn't matter .
Mars01 this is your thread and I'm asking you, not the AH community, not those that actually read this crap, I'm asking YOU what are you actually going to do about it?
Hands Mars01 a rasp. "Now do yourself silly with it".
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:rofl
Originally posted by LYNX
I'm sure there's plenty of guys that would love to take a ride in a BK's plane in the MA. Or ain't that hip ?
anyone is always welcome to join my plane if they ask first.
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The horde is necessary so long as it takes more then 10 guys to assure a base capture, and the harder you make base capture, the more necessary and likely the horde.
Reduce the Town buildings back to AH1 numbers where 4 to 5 guys can take a lightly defended base and the horde becomes irrelevant with smaller groups spread over a larger area. Put the extra buildings saved by using fewer buildings at the towns, into more zones requiring more Strat factories.
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Originally posted by LYNX
Mars01 It seems your derisory ability truely blocks out your capacity to actually do anything about it. As I predicted you and your ilk are just gonna piss and moan on these boards. You will find any excuse, dumb down any suggestions........well just moan on:rolleyes:
lol, like you predicted. sorry lynx, but you pretty muched asked for it, not predicted. Lynx if you want to take a "high road" it helps not to sling poo along the way, and then retort with a "i told you so." What are you doing to help gameplay? do you believe gameplay is just fine? do you just go along with what anyone tells you? You logged over 150 hours, i would like to think that even a small percentage of that was going to be devoted to imporoving gameplay.
whats wrong with discussion? isn't that is what the BBS is for? People have a right to agree and disagree with anything, and is better to state why you disagree with it. no point in taking so personal, which you obviously have, and turn it into a flame fest.
Just because games steer in certain dircetions does not mean it is for the best. Some people just like to roll over and join the crowd, others like to stand up for themselves. LYNX chooses to go with the crowd, change with the times. Others of us choose to stay with and advocate what we like best, which is actually fighting.
I know you only want to hear from mars, but i agree that gameplay is not very good. steam rollling bases, landing 15 vulch kills, and accepting wtg's from the other 5 people that did the same thing. WTG guys, we vulched them good! i am on a break, because i am sick of the gameplay, or lack there of. so, like others, i have an interest the state of the game, and am not going to be told "don't post, i don't want to hear from the rest of the community."
The way i see it, if you are not part of the problem, then you are part of the solution. There are quite a few guys who lead by example. The simple act of not flying with the horde is an improvement in gameplay. just gets old fighting 10 guys alone, while across the map, 10 of your guys are fighing 1. some people like that, just like some people like mining virtual rocks in a game called EVE.
Hajo, Dan- good posts, well put, courteous and spot on. Is a shame that the point will be flying over many heads.
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lynks.... What are we going to do about it? Well....
Fester made a map that simply had a lot of close fields.. there was opportunity for everyone to play anyway they wanted... nothing stopped the hordes from forming... but..
That isn't what happened. fights between close bases were all over the map... whenever some attention starved "look at me I killed the FH!) guy ruined one fight... people moved to another. They were everywhere.
Never has their been such whining as done by the strat girls.... "no one will paly with us" "everyone is doing their own thing and no one is organized on this map"
Fester gave in (big mistake in my opinion) and moved some fields but... it is still the best map, barring fighter town, in the whole damn series...
Soo... traditionaly and for what seems to be the most effect... we are "doing something"
We are pointing out how stupid the whorde looks to the real players. We are making converts. Even you will admit that even on this board the results are that at least half the people agree that the horde is insane and unfun.
The vets are leaving... not just BK's but anyone who enjoys a good air combat game is leaving because there is so little fun fighting any more.
The same guys (with the exception of fester) who think killing a building after setting it up for the kill after a few hours of planning are the ones who make the player made maps.... it is hard work.. we don't deny that.... work no real furballer would bother with.
I could fix any map we have tho... Move all the fields in to about the minimum that HT allows..... 3/4 of a sector and all will be well..
Do that and we will see who likes to play how.
As for training... people have "joined" my plane... they all seemed to have a good time. Some never realized that you could fight from a disadvantage and prevail... some thought that being lower or in a slow plane meant that you automaticaly could not win.
The less opportunity for fights the less people know about fighting... we are breeding a group of AH players who don't know squat about the planes they are flying. The only way to learn is to get into the furball and duke it out. training won't do it and dueling won't do it. They may help but they won't work in a big mass of twisting turning planes on the deck.
sooo you can be part of the vets in this game or part of the squeaky voiced boy/girls begging for gunners or fighter support so that they can take down the fh'ers at the only fun fight or a deserted field.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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lol, like you predicted. sorry lynx, but you pretty muched asked for it, not predicted. Lynx if you want to take a "high road" it helps not to sling poo along the way, and then retort with a "i told you so." What are you doing to help gameplay? do you believe gameplay is just fine? do you just go along with what anyone tells you? You logged over 150 hours, i would like to think that even a small percentage of that was going to be devoted to imporoving gameplay.
I to do not approve of the hoard but if a mission is planed and set so be it. That feature "mission planner" has been in the game for as long as I have played AH 1 & 2. And no I don't follow I roll with the punches. The game has evolved, better or worse depending on your view point. Personally I'm indifferent. There are more players now so the newbies will go with the mission planners / Hoarders. I do take guys up in my plane. I'm not the greatest fighter but I fair Ok. Not only do I show guys fighting I show them Jabo. I also teach level CALIBRATED bombing. I tune to channel 6 frequently but honestly some of those kids get on me wickett.:rolleyes: >
whats wrong with discussion? isn't that is what the BBS is for? People have a right to agree and disagree with anything, and is better to state why you disagree with it. no point in taking so personal, which you obviously have, and turn it into a flame fest.
You are infact correct. I have gone over board on Mars01. I don't have a problem with the BK's as a squad. Some of them actually make good threads and post great replies. Some are just repetitive.
Just because games steer in certain dircetions does not mean it is for the best. Some people just like to roll over and join the crowd, others like to stand up for themselves. LYNX chooses to go with the crowd, change with the times. Others of us choose to stay with and advocate what we like best, which is actually fighting.
Correct I have moved on and followed the game. We all like good fights, good battles and some like to win a reset. Not for the perkies as some have previously posted in the past but the enjoyment of team play. I can't see that this game will DE-volve so I accept it as it is.
I know you only want to hear from mars, but i agree that gameplay is not very good. steam rollling bases, landing 15 vulch kills, and accepting wtg's from the other 5 people that did the same thing. WTG guys, we vulched them good! i am on a break, because i am sick of the gameplay, or lack there of. so, like others, i have an interest the state of the game, and am not going to be told "don't post, i don't want to hear from the rest of the community."
I have no problem with folk voicing their opinion, ideas, wishes what I have a problem with is repatition, side stepping, poo poo'ing and unwillingness to actually do anything about the problem.
The way i see it, if you are not part of the problem, then you are part of the solution. There are quite a few guys who lead by example. The simple act of not flying with the horde is an improvement in gameplay. just gets old fighting 10 guys alone, while across the map, 10 of your guys are fighing 1. some people like that, just like some people like mining virtual rocks in a game called EVE.
I know this will sound hollow but from this day I will try to be more of a solution, as you put it. Keep in mind I am more a Strat player than a furballer. I do love a good fight though. You'll rarely see me in the hoard as it is but if my squad or a squadie is taking a base I'll stand on till we've won or been defeated.
I do not advocate dive bombing level bombers do not advocate pork and auger, bomb and bail or side switchers saying where Cv's are. If I suspect any dodggy dealings I simply don't get involved.
All we need now are more folk to set the examples, take newbies for a ride but I fear you will never get ride of the hoard. Thats the way the game is now. You can but try to organise but some guys areliving in the past and a gazillion threads / replies won't change bugger all but actions will
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Cry about it.
(http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/6650/bkle7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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lynx, i've fought you before in several circumstances. I know you can fight and like to fight, the instance that comes to mind is i once ran across you in a temp, and was amazed that you didn't just tuck tail and run after first pass. so for me, i respect the fact that you can and will fight, and not just when you have numbers on your side. also it is good to hear you are trying to keep people away from the the gamey aspect of the game:)
there is nothing wrong, imho, with players who play for strat...it's the thing they enjoy. But for whatever reason, i have seen, and heard various strat/fighter squads selling themselves short. why bother to be the best gv/fighter/bomber pilot when (generally speaking) you only attack undefended bases/defend in horde. it's no challenge, skills are wasted, and all you get known for may not be what you deserve. Gone are the days when squads would square off in MA. there is no more daring/cunning captures. no more epic battles where rivalries are formed. its all just one big jelled horde, 10v1, afraid to die, afraid to prove anything, cherry picking, spawn campers. this of course is from my pov.
there are plenty of older squads, with plenty of skill. but for whatever reason many have abandoned the challenging part of the game to pursue and underuse their skills. the game itself has not de-volved, the game has stayed the same, but gameplay has changed with increases in membership. 3 things can happen. the vets and older squads can try to swing things back for the sake of competition, HTC can change arenas, or everything stays the same and we spend days on end swapping land and not fighting for any of it, congratulating eacher other on their vulching/camping prowress.
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poor us ranger.... feeling a little threatened? come on now... how bout a hug?
It's ok.... you are still fooling people (snicker).
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Threatened? HA! Not by you tards. Fooling people? Son, are you retarded?
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I guess you didnt get the memo Lazs, USRanger was recently promoted to Executive Vice President of the BK Fanboi Club. Part of his responsibility is heading up our BK merchandising program.
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The rainbow striped headbands are the big sellers thisc year.:aok
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LOL, good one. :)
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Originally posted by Hajo
They've not seen what went on 5 to 7 years ago. Just want to point out the fact that there are different ways to play the game. And since you pay you owe it to yourself to try them all:aok
Perhaps we could go back to an AW on GENIE model at 6$ per hour. :D Which I still have on my old Amiga. Numbers would plummet as the casual gamers and kids would be gone leaving just the hard core WWII fighter fans. It would be a small community that knows everybody and ACM would again be king.
Other than that I don't see any radical changes within the current framework of the game. I would venture a guess that only a single digit percentage of people regularly read the board so anything discussed in here won't even be read by the vast majority of people who play the game.
The players themselves are different with different interests that range from 9 year old kids to at least one person that manned a anti-aircraft battery in WWII. People play for different reasons. Some for ACM, some for community, some for the "simulation" of WWII, some just for a quick game, some just to play airplane.
With all the divergent interests and ages there will be no consensus on how the game "should" be played.
What I do when I log on is dependent on what mood I'm in. I'm not tied to any particular form of slaughter. Don't do bombers though.
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Okay, now that we've all had a good time insulting people we don't know because their cartoon squad gets more attention than your cartoon squad and your cartoon noodle looks smaller by comparison, consider this.
Whatever aspect of the game you enjoy the most, what keeps your interest year after year, tomorrow, dies. Seriously, how would you view the game?
Consider a while back the "porking" threads. What the "furballers" have been experiencing slowly over a period of a few years is the same thing on a grander scale. When I look at the panicked shrieking over just a few days without ord or troops at most bases, I think that the parallel can easily be made, and one could argue that we show a decent amount of restraint, compared to many.
At some point, the same thing that us "furballing BK tards" are bemoaning, which is the loss of the gameplay we enjoyed, will happen to you. Whether it's no ord with which to bomb, no troops with which to capture things, no tanks to spawncamp with, no hangars anywhere for more than 15 minutes... it will happen to you. And someone will mock you for it, because some people are just miserable bastards who enjoy nothing more than revelling in the misery of others. Just like you guys.
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golf clap
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golf clap
Gives new meaning to "hole in one"!
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yep... can you imagine a game where the whorde didn't work... where no one cared? usranger and co would have to pay people to play with em.
What good would being killed 2 or 3 times for every kill you got be? Those half a kill every hour or so would be even funnier than they are now.
Heck ranger... you might even have to buy a jstick. I guess you can hide the frustration of fighting for scraps and still getting killed when you are around 10 of your squaddies by telling yourself that you are "helping to win bases" and that you are not really as bad as everyone thinks.
I think all you new guys need to look at usrangers stats to see what we are talking about here..
You won't get good.... you will get worse if you hide in the crowd. You will allways be everyones chew toy like ranger if you never have the guts to get into the fight...
hang with the whorde and end up like ranger....
getting worse at it every tour. Knowing that anytime you meet anyone in the arena no matter what plane you are flying.... no matter how much advantage you have..... you are 3 times less likely to win than not.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Actually, you will only find me in a "horde" on squad nite, since it is required by my squad. Any other night, you'll find me flying alone, or with a wingmate. So let's get your story straight sister. You don't know me, so don't act like you've got everything all figured out. Mmm kay pumpkin? Actually, I'm more into things like P-40 raids, PT boat missions & oddball stuff like that, so you can suck the fat one if you think you know me or my "style". Laz, if you want to make this about you & me sucker, bring it on beeeotch, otherwise get back on subject, which is your lamebrained ideas on how everyone should play just like you.:aok
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just saying ranger..... it is allways good for the new guys to have an example.
positive or negative.
You advocate a style of flying that it is best to get out into the open... the new guys need to see what happens to em when they avoid fights and furballs.... I think you are an excellent example of someone never getting better than a chew toy.
They can rest assured that if they listen to you that after a year or so of playing.... they will be less skilled than they were when they started... that they will die allmost every time they meet another player no matter how much of an advantage they started out with.
I think that you are a perfect example of the type of person who hates seeing a map good for furballs.
I am not even saying anything about your whining..... just pointing to your stats.... not rank.... stats.. The stats say that no matter how much you try to avoid fights.... you still manage to get killed when you meet someone. This is great but... you seem to be getting worse at it than better.
All in all... a perfect example of what is being discussed here.
don't feel bad.. I fought furball 7 or eight times last night and got my butt handed to me in all but one of em.... but... difference was.... I wasn't gonna quit till I learned something or beat him. I didn't run away and I didn't go join a horde to hide from him.
I might not have gotten better but I certainly didn't get any worse.
not getting into fights makes you worse. losing 3 out of four fights you get into should make you want to get into more fights not less.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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nicely put ranger...:aok :aok
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read the above jolly... you seem to be an advocate of rangers style with.... about the same results.
You have managed to waver between about a .5 kd down to a .3 kd as time goes by.
No one likes to lose but.... I think you guys prove that not having the opportunity to furball is making it hard for people to get better.
Not saying everyone has to furball.... only that it would be nice if the maps had some opportunity to do so like before.
Otherwise.... the new guys will never get any better than you guys at this.
and.... I am sure that they don't want that.... they just don't know any better.
It is productive for them to look at your stats to see the result of such thinking.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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How do I advocate a certain style of flying (which you in your infinite wisdom can figure out from stats)? I do it all Sally. I horde, fight 1 on 1, furball, up from capped fields to defend constantly, and basically do anything that looks FUN! I could care less about stats on some computer game. That's not why I play. If you REALLY had me all figured out, you'd know I am that IL-2 upping at a totally capped field, or that lone osti charging into the middle of an enemy field. THAT'S my style. You've failed this little exercise on knowing how people play. Back to school for you.:cool:
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People on both ends of the spectrum are still playing how they will play. This debate will not stop, ever. It has not stopped yet. HT has not changed the game, yet. It will continue with no forseeable end. I am happy for those who have a life outside of AH and this BBS, and play the game for fun, however they choose to play it. No few people are ever going to convert the world here.
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no problem thunderegg... so long as the opportunity exists for all styles then people really do have choice.
optimal would be a lot of close fields so that if the horde was in an area then those who enjoy air combat could just go to another good fight.
ranger protests but.... unless he constantly fights form severe disadvantage (which is highly doubtful) then... he proves that avoiding fights (kills per hour mean tell how often you get into fights) he proves the point....
with little opportunity to have good fights... people will not get into fights and end up doing as poorly as him when they do find a fight. I have taken off from capped bases myself but even then... even my mediocre skills would let me get more than a .5 kd ratio....
pretty weak excuse ...I think anyone can see that.
Nope... my point remains.... it is like pointing out the babbling bum to children.... it matters not what he says just look at where he is at.
Kids.... newbies.... don't let that happen to you....
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the Bk's
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Stats don't matter to me. Go ahead and GAWK AT MY STATS. I SUCK!:D
A lot of it has to do with life outside of the game (my three rambunctious children, especially). I don't let people's prefered style of game-play torque my attititude. I step out for a while if I get perturbed. When it comes down to what really matters, this just gets old and silly.
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Ill kill all you BK tards....
Kiss off....Viper
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Originally posted by viper215
Ill kill all you BK tards....
You cant kill the BK tards because Megadud and Hub both quit.
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It still comes down to the point that people are having fun doing what they do.
Hordeing, 1v1 fights, Porking or just bombing a factory.
I would say having ultimate fun in this game is being versitile, I can do it all and have fun doing it. I love LOOOONNNNGGGG 30K B-17 runs deep into NME territory to bomb some factory while the 262's come up to get us. I love a good even or not so even furball in my KI-61 or FM-2, taking down those pesky LA-7's or Spit-16's with a not so uber plane is great fun.. :D
And I love the taking of bases be it by the sneaky goon driving of ThndrEgg and another squady and I coming in low to deack the Vbase. Or a good mission NOE in 110's snaching a base away from an NME country. The 10 to 15k Pony or 38 run to blast town and cap while the troops get there is fun. Heck one squad night we took 1 base with IL-2's and the next we took with P-40E's lol. We also like to do combo bomber/fighter blast and grab takes...
On squad nights we also do the simple fighter sweeps be they in LA's right down to Spit-1's :)
The point is we can have fun doing what ever it is we feel like doing be it in the squad night horde or with just a couple of other squad mates.
Oh by the way it's Squad night again and yes between the 6 wings of our squad we probably have 90 some odd active members and most show up on monday night. :D
SO PREPARE FOR THE BISH HORDE!!!!!!!!
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I'm not protesting any style, so I don't know where you got that from. I said to quit crying, that is all. I believe YOU are the one trying to get people to change, not I. Step away from daddy's computer and check out the real world, your brain is starting to fizzle.
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Us CM's can't load the Dougnut map for the SEA.
Wish we could, I also like the idea of setting it up for off times when no even is in use.
We could crank field ack up, disable buffs, and make ACK/FH's reup in one second if they get killed.
I for one LOVE the idea, but you would have to ask Nefarious his 2 cents, as he is the boss.
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Originally posted by USRanger
I'm not protesting any style, so I don't know where you got that from. I said to quit crying, that is all. I believe YOU are the one trying to get people to change, not I. Step away from daddy's computer and check out the real world, your brain is starting to fizzle.
:lol :lol Get em range
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How about 2 fairly even teams.... team 1 in P-51s and Team 2 in 109s (or predetermined planes of choice)each takes off at a set time and rises to a certain alt all in formation. Fly to a predetermined point where both sides shall first spot then attack eachother, this may mean loitering if the other team takes a round a bout track to the FIGHTER ARENA. Routes to that agreed on point can be reached by any means ( meaning you wont be sure what direction the other side may enter the FIGHTER ARENA on). Once a pilot is down.. he is down untill one side downs all planes on the opposing team. Downed pilots can join fighters still in the air, just not reup.
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My original thread post was handing Laz a box of tissues, that is all. Yes it was rude, but look who I was talking to. Somehow it became 3 pages of BS. Laz, we can agree to disagree (about what, I have no clue still, I love to furball!). All I meant was quit whining because it's not gonna change. You belong to the country that usually wins maps, so there should be no problem with you finding good fights all over, with the other countries trying to defend their bases. This is a war sim, correct? In war, you don't attack where the enemy is strongest. In war, you never want a 1 on 1. In, war you use all the assets given to you to overwhelm, close with, and kill the enemy deader than hell. In war you take ground. If anyone wants 1 on 1 ,go to the DA, AvA, or the rooms in H2H. In the MA, you will rarely find it, and if you are looking for it, good luck, especially with the added player base we've seen. If you want to furball, great! I'll be there 6 out of 7 nights a week. Hell Laz, if you find a good Bish-Rook furball, PM me & tell me you want a piece. I'll show. It's all fun to me.
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Horde mentality can only be tackled at the individual level. How's about hiring a Psychiatrist to help these adolecent teens deal with their insecurities :lol
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My take on this is there is not a lot any of us (except HT) can do about it so I dont dwell on it. Most of the time when I see a big horde, I laugh to myself, hit ".fly" and wade into it.
I really dont think about the hordes or the people in them long enough to get upset about it. I would prefer that everyone furballed like the old days, but that time has past and its not comming back so there is no point in fretting over it. Its like anything else in life, if it is not something I can change, I dont sweat it.
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and ranger... my original point was that if you have places for people to furball they will so it must be a style that a lot of people like.
Festers map has a lot of close fields and it has a lot of furballs... the FT map is allways popular... a fight with a close CV is allways populated. I also pointed out that whining did indeed work... it worked to get Festers map made a little worse and it has worked in the past to make things better for the whorde and the kids.
You jumped in and, as you happen to be a prime example of the kind of guy who thinks there is too much furballing as it is and..... that things are fine... well... I just had to point out your stats..
It isn't so much that you and dunderegg and jolly suck so bad... we all sucked at one time or another... I am mediocre at best now. It is that you appear to revel in your suckiness... you seem to wear it like a badge. Like, it's ok to suck because you are above the whole air combat thing and are doing the major picture capture the flag thing.
I guess you are going to grow up to be a soldier and think this is some kind of "strat" training or "tactics" training maybe.
Oh... and you are not being completely honest about the planes you fly... you may fly the a6m a third of the time but most seems to be in planes like the D9 A8 and la7 and nik. How can you lose so much in those planes?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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All I meant was quit whining because it's not gonna change.
Yes, yes it will. When a few guys from your squad and the others in your shoes realize that taking undefended bases has gotten real boring, then read there is an alternative and switch to a game play style that isn't boring because they finally realized they are here to play a game that pits them pilot to pilot rather then thinking there is some war to be won. LOLH
You belong to the country that usually wins maps, so there should be no problem with you finding good fights all over, with the other countries trying to defend their bases.
Actually the country winning the map usually has the worst fights due to all it takes is overwhelming number so win maps not skill or tactics.
This is a war sim, correct? In war, you don't attack where the enemy is strongest. In war, you never want a 1 on 1. In, war you use all the assets given to you to overwhelm, close with, and kill the enemy deader than hell. In war you take ground.
Gee in real life maybe. In a GAME where the idea is to log on and fight each other, running from the enemy hardly seems like the way to play. And that in a nutshell is the difference between the BKs and the BOPs I guess. We would rather fight and you would rather take ground unopposed for some reason.
Flayed's post was great to see. See how much fun they had actually fighting for the ground rather than taking undefended bases. That is what this game is about and what you miss when you try to make it fit real life agendas.
It takes skill to take defended bases and creates a lot of fun. Id doesn't take any skill to take undefended ones and takes away fun because all those people you tie up not fighting, unbalances the numbers and creates unchecked potatods.
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Originally posted by lazs2
It isn't so much that you and dunderegg and jolly suck so bad... we all sucked at one time or another... I am mediocre at best now. It is that you appear to revel in your suckiness... you seem to wear it like a badge. Like, it's ok to suck because you are above the whole air combat thing and are doing the major picture capture the flag thing.
How inspirational. I'm sure I'm motivated to play your way now. You are a beacon of respect and positive leadership, and noobs will flock to your banner.
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sometimes shame is the only way.... it is like slapping someone in the face who is in a panic mode or making them breath out of a paper bag.
win the war types need to be shamed while you are slapping em in the face while they are breathing in a paper bag... even then.....
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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How do you know they suck lazs or imho LASS your the kind if guy who would strike me as sitting at 30k in your uber plane and cherry picking someone off...the the second you blow your alt you run home to get your name in lights...As their k/d ratio goes they up at capped fields... they dont play to have a good k/d ratio like you must do if your going to bring it up...do you up from capped fields??? Or do you sit in the tower with your leggs crossed saying I CANT UP the AH god will disown me if I blow my score potato k/d ratio.
Your frindly Viper215
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Well Viper,
You couldn't be more wrong about Laz. If you ask anyone who has run into him, you will find he is always 3k or lower no matter what and in an FM2. Most of the time all we do is up from capped fields, hence us running INTO you guys. :aok And where is he going to run in an FM2 LOLH. That is the difference between the two of you I guess. Laz will do a little homework and talk to that instead of just pull crap out of his arse and throw it. Do some home work next time and your foot will stay on the ground and out of your mouth. :aok
Just Saying since we are all frinds :D
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LASS your the kind if guy who would strike me as sitting at 30k in your uber plane and cherry picking someone off...the the second you blow your alt you run home to get your name in lights
LOL ... u have described the complete opposite of Lazs ... nice profiling ... :rofl
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Originally posted by viper215
How do you know they suck lazs or imho LASS your the kind if guy who would strike me as sitting at 30k in your uber plane and cherry picking someone off...the the second you blow your alt you run home to get your name in lights...As their k/d ratio goes they up at capped fields... they dont play to have a good k/d ratio like you must do if your going to bring it up...do you up from capped fields??? Or do you sit in the tower with your leggs crossed saying I CANT UP the AH god will disown me if I blow my score potato k/d ratio.
Your frindly Viper215
LOL! talk about getting it wrong. I happened to be flying in the same area as Laz last night. He was feeling guilty cause he was in an F6F down low. He'd gotten out of his FM2 because people were avoiding it.
As one who tends to be down low in my uber 38G I understand where Laz is coming from on this one :)
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We all know that Lazs talks a really mean game, but I'm glad someone has finally called him out on the fact that he is a score-obsessed cherry picking gangbanger. Now if only he could admit that fact to himself, he'd be well on his way to recovery.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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We all know that Lazs talks a really mean game, but I'm glad someone has finally called him out on the fact that he is a score-obsessed cherry picking gangbanger. Now if only he could admit that fact to himself, he'd be well on his way to recovery.
LOLHROTFFPAOMS :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by mars01
LOLHROTFFPAOMS :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
My 2 year old said the same thing.
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Originally posted by thndregg
My 2 year old said the same thing.
1st words?;)
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I really want to be a cherrypicker but I get nosebleeds at anything over 4k.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I guess you are going to grow up to be a soldier and think this is some kind of "strat" training or "tactics" training maybe.
I've served my country proudly for the last 12 years while you sat at home fiddlin your joystick starin at pictures of Mary Jane Rottencrotch. For a know it all, man you suck the big one. Oh yeah...blow me.
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Let's see, so many things to go after and so little time. The one that stands out the most is how we, the Bops, seem to go after undefended fields 24/7. It would be safe to say we only do this in a group worth noticing on Monday nights from about 6 to 9PM. If they're throwing up a defense, we may hit 4 fields like last night against the Rooks. Or if we're just rolling along, maybe 6 or 8. But we're still only dealing with a 3 or 4 hour period once a week where the majority of the squad is on and all we're working to is taking bases. After using my amazing math skills, it is found that we are only working as a massive blob of destruction 2.4% of the week. Man, after seeing that number I can understand how we are just ruining your whole AH experience. I mean seriously, you only stand a 97.6% chance of not encountering the full fledged Bop horde. No wonder you guys are running into us all the time, with numbers like that it's hard to believe you could avoid us.
edit: Oh and Ranger could kill us all with his bare hands. But nice one laz, that was cute.
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Originally posted by viper215
How do you know they suck lazs or imho LASS your the kind if guy who would strike me as sitting at 30k in your uber plane and cherry picking someone off...the the second you blow your alt you run home to get your name in lights..
Hmmmm....even I know that is not how he fights. Quite the oppisite. :huh
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Originally posted by USRanger
I've served my country proudly for the last 12 years while you sat at home fiddlin your joystick starin at pictures of Mary Jane Rottencrotch.
Dang, is she still around?
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I tried to return this thread back to civility. To get it back on track, instead of a kissing match between Laz & myself. In return, I'm told how I suck ,my squaddies suck, our stats suck....zzzz...sorry, fell asleep reading the same re-worded posts over & over. Laz, you think I suck at a video game? HAHAHAHAHAHA Son, I don't give a flyin farg what you think. I think you suck at being a human being. Do you care? Hardly. I'm glad a video game is the only thing you got going on in your sorry adolecent life. I'm glad that telling everyone they "suck" makes you feel good. I'm glad that you have a non-existant life where you have time to actually look up everyone's stats. (Btw, that is some HILARIOUS stuff that someone would work that hard to downgrade other players.) You are a real class act indeed. I'm sure you are a real hero to your buddies. So go ahead & write 20 more posts how of people suck, because we think it is F-U-N-N-Y that you care so much to tell us over and over and over.
Get a life reject
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
You have managed to waver between about a .5 kd down to a .3 kd as time goes by. . .
. . . It is productive for them to look at your stats to see the result of such thinking.
Question for you, lazs . . . since it is mathematically impossible for everyone in the game to even have an even 1 to 1 kill ratio (because of kills / deaths +1), what k/d ratio do you deem to be "acceptable"?
If someone's k/d ratio is too sucky by your definition, should they just quit?
Once everyone with a k/d ratio less than one quits, there will be a new group, previously with k/d ratios above 1, who will now necessarily be below 1. Then do they need to quit too?
If everyone uses k/d ratio as their measure of "success" in the game, it sounds like the beginning of a slow death of the game to me. Because HiTech can't make a living on the 300-500 hard-core furballers that would be left (if that isn't being too generous).
And, no, I don't believe the "gigantic furball" for which you pine is the best place to learn. Quite the contrary. Any newbie upping in the middle of a furball is automatic meat - each and every time. If that is all there was to the game, as it seems you want, there would be no influx of new players as there would never be enough time for a newbie to learn to fly, let alone dogfight, before they simply got frustrated and left, probably never having scored a single kill unless they had the good fortune to find another newbie in the midst of the swirl (but how they would get that far is beyond me.)
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Originally posted by E25280
Question for you, lazs . . . since it is mathematically impossible for everyone in the game to even have an even 1 to 1 kill ratio (because of kills / deaths +1)
Just a little bit of nitpicking:
It is mathematical possible for all of us in this game to have a fighter & attack K/D >1 (and thats really the only K/Dīs we usually talk about), as we engange not only other fighters but lotīs of bombers & GVs too.
Yea, I know, not really a contribution to this discussion, but I simply couldnīt resist... :o
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I sense some tension in the room...
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Originally posted by Lusche
Just a little bit of nitpicking:
It is mathematical possible for all of us in this game to have a fighter & attack K/D >1 (and thats really the only K/Dīs we usually talk about), as we engange not only other fighters but lotīs of bombers & GVs too.
Yea, I know, not really a contribution to this discussion, but I simply couldnīt resist... :o
Although there are a few masochists that like to take bombers into the furball, in "Lazs' World" there would be no bombers as the swirling fighter-furball would be the end-all and be-all (if I understand him correctly).
So, although technically correct, I will choose to ignore you and hope you will go away . . .
But, please, continue to pick . . . while I cover my eyes and hum loudly. :D
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I wish this game was more like Counterstrike.:p
:furious
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Originally posted by E25280
So, although technically correct, I will choose to ignore you and hope you will go away . . .
That wonīt work. My wife is trying that now for 6 years...
(...) while I cover my eyes and hum loudly. :D
My wife does that too... but I wonīt tell you at what occasions she does ...
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first... on the math... it probly impossible for guys like yourself and usranger and dunder to every break 1/1kd... Nothing to do with math tho.
second... usranger... thank you for your service.
But... you really do suck at simulated air combat and your military training is making it worse. You are trying to apply real world tacticts and strat to a game where the strat is an excuse for air combat and... now GV stuff.
You might be a lot more happy in WWII online or some other such game.
I am not only telling you that you suck tho.... I am telling you why. I am holding up the mirror of your stats and you...are not being a good soldier... you are pouting and getting angry. You simply are not getting better. What you are doing is making sure that you never do get better. I really can't believe that you, or most of your squad, will be able to sustain any real interest in the game when you get beaten like a drum by every 12 year old you run into in the game... that you can sustain the thrill of killing outhouses and taking undefended bases (oh... one or two guys taking off or landing is still "undefended")
just trying to help. Sometimes shame is the slap in the face that a good soldier run amuck soldier needs.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Let's see, so many things to go after and so little time. The one that stands out the most is how we, the Bops, seem to go after undefended fields 24/7. It would be safe to say we only do this in a group worth noticing on Monday nights from about 6 to 9PM. If they're throwing up a defense, we may hit 4 fields like last night against the Rooks. Or if we're just rolling along, maybe 6 or 8. But we're still only dealing with a 3 or 4 hour period once a week where the majority of the squad is on and all we're working to is taking bases. After using my amazing math skills, it is found that we are only working as a massive blob of destruction 2.4% of the week. Man, after seeing that number I can understand how we are just ruining your whole AH experience. I mean seriously, you only stand a 97.6% chance of not encountering the full fledged Bop horde. No wonder you guys are running into us all the time, with numbers like that it's hard to believe you could avoid us.
Sullie don't get over blown here, as I have said over and over it is the game play style of your squad, albeit, once a week and all the other squads like yours on the other days of the week and all the missun noobs that look at your squad and the others like it as the model and emulate your
"Use overwhelming force and attack where there is least resistance - ie undefended bases for the slow"
tactics.
Again, you guys would rather argue nothing, than really tell us why you wouldn't fight against the enemy potatods? Why is that? And don't give me the Tactics crap of Real life. This is a GAME.
Ranger - Thank you for your service, I salute you for your actions in real life and in real life you are probably a good guy.
But in here you are on the other side of the fence on this issue and in your game play style. No one insulted you as a person, but as a computer peelot so please don't cross the two. There is a big difference.
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Not intending this as a punt, but since this is where the posts where made, this is where I will respond.
US-RANGER <> I salute you and your service. These personal attacks by the ignorant are only exacerbated by their inability to achieve an intelligent thought.
Keep up the good work in the real world, and please continue to enjoy yourself in the game in whatever style of game play you choose. It would be an honor to fly either with you or against in the spirit of game fun.
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Tactics Crap.
If I choose to go head-long in to a furball, I will furball. If I choose to use "tactics crap" to sneak, I will use "tactics crap."
It's all about what people choose. How upsetting.:cry
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Thunder, what is so upsetting?? The fact that there is little tactics involved other than overwhelming a base with numbers?
Honestly that is all the sneak is, is it not?? Get there with your guys before anyone notices and can defend themselves.
If not then why do you need to sneak it?
That is my point about you guys taking your overwhelming numbers and facing the potatods overwhelming numbers and fighting. That might require some tactics - other than dropping Fighter Hangers.
Honestly I see no tactics need to perpetrate a sneak. If I am wrong please help me see the light.
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dunder... that is not quite true.. If you wish to furball you won't be able to because... well... you simply do not know how.
If you wish to sneak you will... but...
you have no real choice. If you don't sneak or become part of an overwhelming whorde.... you will be beaten like a drum by every 12 year old who has actually been in a furball.
Now you guys can play it any way you want... It's your money. You can evern tell yourselves that it is legit.... you just can't expect to come on here and not get made fun of for your timidity.
It is also nothing new to out you... it is a long standing tradition in flight sims.. the timid no risk guys were allways made fun of. What has changed is that you are now, if not a slight majority..... close to it.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
dunder... that is not quite true.. If you wish to furball you won't be able to because... well... you simply do not know how.
What the hell does it matter if I know how or not? Lots of fellow Bish and my opponents could verify that I furball & fart around in a fighter. I am not great at it, but I am definitely not a total reject, and I have fun anyway. That's what it is to play here. But I change gears to other things fun as well. Versatility in AH is what makes HTC $$$, and the world is gravitating to it. That is what you apparently can't stand. I do see however that the influx of young newbies are looking for instant gratification without going through the basics with trainers. Do you really believe that endless requests for a fighter-town in every map and closer bases will be granted? Like a law someone proposes that gets shot down year after year, and it keeps getting dredged up again and again until it gets approved because the government won't take no for an answer? What will you do then if HTC does not impliment this? Talk your sales pitch some more and degrade more players lack of "skill" with statistical info? Whatever I do is up to me. So F-n' what? I'm not getting paid for playing, and my life does not revolve around this game and this board. I don't give a flyin' what you think of my game style. I have not detested your style of play. I detest how you trash talk about others and thier lack of "skill", as if it was a paying vocation or career. Makes me wonder if you have any ambitions in life outside this game, or is this all that consumes your time?
P.S. The core of my "mild" irritability with the likes of you is that you are degenerating to name-calling and disrespect to other players, including the BOPs, Lazs. I hold Mars in high regard in that category. I respect that he can demonstrate civility and you choose not to. Proof of that is the discussions he has had with FlaydONE on this issue. You could choose to give a **** and learn from him, but I doubt it. You may have to step out of your hole.
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Originally posted by lazs2
first... on the math... it probly impossible for guys like yourself and usranger and dunder to every break 1/1kd... Nothing to do with math tho.
Nothing to brag about to be sure, but above 1/1, thanks.
Nice sidestep of my questions/points, though. :)
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Originally posted by mars01
Sullie don't get over blown here, as I have said over and over it is the game play style of your squad, albeit, once a week and all the other squads like yours on the other days of the week and all the missun noobs that look at your squad and the others like it as the model and emulate your
"Use overwhelming force and attack where there is least resistance - ie undefended bases for the slow"
tactics.
Again, you guys would rather argue nothing, than really tell us why you wouldn't fight against the enemy potatods? Why is that? And don't give me the Tactics crap of Real life. This is a GAME.
Ranger - Thank you for your service, I salute you for your actions in real life and in real life you are probably a good guy.
But in here you are on the other side of the fence on this issue and in your game play style. No one insulted you as a person, but as a computer peelot so please don't cross the two. There is a big difference.
How is that overblown, I was simply responding to the comments saying all we do is take bases. And while I'm here, I might as well educate you some more. The reason bases are taken is not always the same. It is often done knowing it will stir something up. Such as last night we flew noe to the Rooks backdoor and took a base near HQ knowing full well it would spark something interesting. What followed was a pretty good fight, better than what was going on anywhere else at the time. And in regards to the bit about how we never take on a horde, well we do actually. I even told you about it in the first thread you started on this topic but apparently you stopped keeping up with it.
As this shows signs of going forever/nowhere I'll try and sum things up. The entire universe and their uncle knows that you guys greatly prefer air to air fights with some nice ACM thrown in for fun. Almost everybody I know, not just those in the squad, also enjoy good air to air fights even though you obviously don't believe us for who knows what reason. Hell you even acknowledged that we don't do the whole game ruining horde thing that often, so what is it you think we're doing the rest of the time? Fine, I'm sorry we do not fly with the single purpose of specifically hunting enemy aircraft 100% of the day. Sorry we have expanded our horizon to include every fascet of the game. And I'm sorry that HTC built a game which has more to it than shooting down the other guy.
God can we all just agree that we will never agree and recognize that the other guy will always think the other one is crazy and will never change the way they play? Cause all I see is something which has boiled down to a debate more pointless than evolution vs. creationism. But if you want to keep going fine, I'll ramble right along with you. :aok
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Have you no F______ respect for the men who fight to protect your right to live free lazs...jesus christ...maybe he does not have a good k/d ratio because he spends time with his family and has a JOB you know what those are? You get this thing called money so you can stop MOOCHING off other people. I lost what little respect I had for you and your squad. GD tard.
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Let's see... shall I take off from that base with 8 Rook P-51s orbiting at 18K, 2 262's power vulching the runway, and a few LA's buzzing around for good measure just so I can "get good," or might I find it a tad more enjoyable to up off a runway somewhere else? Go make yourself a screen print of the Rook-Bish map front on any given night then preach to me about hordes. You want to condemn them, fine. Apply it to ALL sides.
There is such a thing as setting out to accomplish an objective and doing it in the smartest, most efficient way possible. Like that raid on Field 96 down by Rook HQ on the last map. We had to sneak two airfields to get within striking range while still not tipping our hand at the ultimate target. It went pretty good, too, until that opposition you say is never there suddenly showed up. I suppose all our 110s that were there to take down the town buildings, had they followed your advice, would be just fine taking on a bunch of LAs, Spits, Nikis, P-51s, and a 262, but somehow I don't think so. There is such a thing as choosing a plane for a purpose, and to be honest I don't see many guys flying a 110 into a furball to demonstrate their superior fighter jock skills, do you? If you think about that, it might explain why when flying a non-efficient fighter one might choose to go in undetected. The plan was to drop town, not dogfight.
I don't even have the slightest clue what stats you are referring to, nor do I care, Laz. I play to have fun, and that could be anything from taking out a CV that's giving an enemy team an advantage we don't want, or maybe just resupplying a base to get troops up. Sometimes you die doing that, but so what? It's the challenge of trying that makes the game fun. I could care less whether I died 2 times or 20 times yesterday; today is a new day with new dynamics of sides hence more choices of what to do and where.
If you want to furball and be the best you can at that, more power to you. But I think it's a mistake to judge everyone else and try to compress them into your mold. Furballs are fun for about 10 minutes for me, after that it's just going roundy-round until some guy you don't see joins the fight and puts you down. That's why I prefer bombing to fighters. I have no desire to do the same thing over and over and over again just to improve that one skill to be acceptable to someone else. It's my 15 bucks, and I'm going to spend it doing what I choose, whether that's above or below an artificial bar set by someone else.
Happy flying.
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Hey, any takers on closing this Thread? It's gone from a troll, to an outright flaming of individuals. Right now, It seems to be at a semi-stable state, and I might remind all of you, we get enough of it on ch.200.
-Frode
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Originally posted by viper215
Have you no F______ respect for the men who fight to protect your right to live free lazs...jesus christ...maybe he does not have a good k/d ratio because he spends time with his family and has a JOB you know what those are? You get this thing called money so you can stop MOOCHING off other people. I lost what little respect I had for you and your squad. GD tard.
So since he's in the armed forces we should all kiss his butt? It's kinda sad in a way to pull that truimp card when discussing a video game anyhow. While I deeply respect what he's doing, it has no bearing on any of this. It doesn't make him "more right" because he's in the military.:aok
PS: viper did you use to fly in the DA a lot about 8-12 months ago?
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Originally posted by SuperDud
It doesn't make him "more right" because he's in the military.:aok
In a way, that's true. He is not god-like simply because he is or has been there. But the military does teach practicle life lessons, such as leadership and responsibility for starters. I have not been in the military, but I have seen some of the best school teachers and coaches come from there, and I admire thier "Brass Tax" character.
USRanger.
Banshee6, fellow BOP, recently returned from Iraq.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
So since he's in the armed forces we should all kiss his butt? It's kinda sad in a way to pull that truimp card when discussing a video game anyhow. While I deeply respect what he's doing, it has no bearing on any of this. It doesn't make him "more right" because he's in the military.:aok
No one ever suggested anybody kiss his butt or think him more right or wrong. However, your ability and mine to be able to come in here and speak whatever opinion floats our boat was paid for in his blood and those like him for the past 230 years. It doesn't make him more right but we can at least show a bit of respect rather than issuing personal insults and blasting him because of his "military tactics."
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cable... I have nothing against you "sneaking" bases with a horde and taking them. I never even notice. It makes no difference to me, or most people, who even "wins the war" or... the hawiian vacation that HT gives out every year to the squad who captures the most bases.
I don't care if you think this is the closest thing to chess and advanced math that a human can do in a flight sim or if you think you are saving lives and heaping glory on your squad and your nation.
I hope you do enjoy it and continue to pay HT every month... My guess is that..... You won't.
If you don't get good and you hide in squad full of guys who can't and won't get good... the very real fact that the "strat" is an afterthought and not really anything other than an excuse to get into some combat... that fact will eventually... maybe a year... maybe two hit you and you will leave... bored out of your skull and having missed out on the most fun anyone coulda had in a FS. Fortunately for HT... you will be replaced by someone just like you. And none of us survivors will even notice the difference.
dunder and viper... I play only about 10-20 hours a month these days. I have no time to take useless bases or care about winning the war. I do have a job and a life and like most furballers.... just want to forget about both for an hour or two of enjoyable simulated air combat when I get time.
usrnger and you spend a lot more time at it than I do.... when you realize how you are sqandering your time it will hit you hard and..... read the above to cable..
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Sorry Sullie I missed the sarcasm the first time, blew through it too fast.
Man, after seeing that number I can understand how we are just ruining your whole AH experience.
sorry we have expanded our horizon to include every fascet of the game.
Been there done that, with the few hours I get a month I would rather fight. That's all.
Bottom line is, it would be nice if you guys and the guys with squads like yours, helped offset the potatod problem rather than exasperate it. That's all were asking.
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on subject
The only method of limiting mass concentrations from one field I have ever seen work is a Zone limit.
If more than # players have spawned from a field at any time then it is full and other players must spawn from elsewhere or wait for a player to land or die or bail.
Its tough on big squads (pity choose another field)
It makes missions run from back fields or force them to be split (so apply some thought to your missions)
But it spreads game play and (tends to)balance local combat in the key areas.
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Cable when you and Frode are here long enough to even approach getting beyond the feeble strat game then this will all make sense and you will come back and laugh at how naive your posts are. No disrespect intended.
And Lawman, I would also like to apologize, it hit me last night to see how long you've been here and I saw that you are just coming up on your first year in this game and for some reason thought you were more seasoned and should have known better. My bad for jumping down your throat when you really don't know any better. Again, no disrespect intended.
Reread Laz's last post. It is spot on for a lot of the Vet crew. You have to ask yourselves what really made you join this game. I would feel safe in saying that it was, initially, the prospect of flying WWII airplanes in Air to Air combat.
Then you get here and realize there is a huge learning curve and that it is going to take some practice, experience and work to really be able to start to hold your own.
Then you realize, hey it's easy to blow cheese up and I can get good at that fast.
Then you realize that staying in the potatod, while boring helps you survive.
Then you see guys like myself and Laz, et-al talking about there being something more to this game.
Then it hits you at some point you've start to plateau, your not getting any better.
At this point you either give up and relegate yourself to not thinking you can get any better so you take the scraps from the potatods,
Or
You start to put yourself in situations that force you to find your weaknesses and get better.
If you find yourself in the latter group then all the strat in the world isn't going to satisfy you. You've been on this game for a while, your wife, girlfriend, family are getting pissed because your wasting so much time playing a computer game.
Your hours start to drop due to the real world, now you all you really want to do is log in when you can and fight, but alas there is no great place to fight. The unopposed potatods rule the arena which exasperates the running timid noob problem and you get a community where most of the current vets would rather potatod than fight.
Some naive would say this is classic burnout, but then they are missing the real issue and going with the easy but incorrect answer. The real problem is, without a fighter town on the maps or maps that also foster furball fightnig there is no way for people to just log in and fight.
Spot on Tilt. Expecting the Vets to take responsibility for the problem won't work for the obvious stated reasons.
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gameplay.. if there is the ability for good gameplay for both the newbie strat whordes and the vets then everyone will get along better...
the acrimony won't be so bitter because one type of gameplay is winning out to the destruction of the other. people will still take jabs at each other but it will be a lot less angry.
closer fields make better gameplay.... or... better gameplay for the most people... less people complain about festers map and the FT one than any of the others.
it works.
Even the whorde is not pure evil.
a whorde is evil and should be made fun of.... Two whordes running into each other is a glorious thing.... it is a thing of beauty...
It is a furball!!!
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Well, mars, it appears to me that you also have a "mold" that everyone must fit into because you fit into it. And you are wrong about not wanting to improve skills in all areas. However there is a difference between improving over time and doing NOTHING BUT one thing on the false premise that I *MUST* do what someone else THINKS I should do, else I can't have fun, won't "maximize" my experience, or some such horse dung.
To listen to you and Laz, every time I'm in a fighter and faced with an opponent I either run or die; neither is true. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't, but I still engage. I've been shot down by the best in the game and the worst in the game, and when that happens I try to think about what those good pilots did to gain advantage or escape that lock I thought I had on their six. Eventually I find myself doing the same moves, so I think there's some progress there, and I didn't have to spend hours in furballs to gain some know-how or some skill. Conversely, I have shot down the worst in the game and the best in the game.
Maybe you do something different than I, but it's my experience that it's a rare day when you get anything close to an even fight. Usually it might start out that way, but eventually either your own countrymen or the opponent's countrymen show up and then all that superior fighter skill time investment is essentially out the window. That's one reason I don't care to invest enormous amounts of time only to improve a skill that turns out to be less important in the overall scheme. Like Ranger, I also like to defend airfields under attack, and if I die 20 times doing it, so what? It's just a GAME! I have never been one to grab two kills and go; I'd rather stay until the last bullet goes out of my guns, and if that means dying, so be it. I'm satisfied with it, and that's all that counts. Just as you are satisfied with what you do.
One other thing; you make a rash assumption that I choose to bomb because investing a lot of time to be proficient in fighters is "too hard." It's not that at all. I happen to LIKE bombers. When I go to an air museum, that's the first thing I want to see. Half the male members on one side of my family flew in the real ones, and there's a bit of a connection there that has nothing to do with shirking work to become something I'm not interested in.
That's why this statement:
You have to ask yourselves what really made you join this game. I would feel safe in saying that it was, initially, the prospect of flying WWII airplanes in Air to Air combat.
might be YOUR idea of truth, but it isn't applicable to me. I spent years flying in AW and had all the furballs I care to. I came here looking for something better, something a little more diverse and strategic. Who knows, I might end up like you predict and burn out; then again, I might end up as you are, a Vet of the game who is continually dissatisfied that everyone else isn't living up to "my" standard of the game. Is one better than the other?
Ypu go right ahead and think what you want of me. I'm still going to play as I choose to, just as I hope you do also.
Happy Flying.
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Ohh Cable you couldn't be any more of a noob. I threw out a perspective, I did not say it was law or the end all and be all of "The way it is". But your newbness jumped down my throat with your naive drivel.
Step back, give yourself enough time to get to know who you are talking to and fighting against before you run off and make rash naive comments.
Well, mars, it appears to me that you also have a "mold" that everyone must fit into because you fit into it.
No I just threw out a perspective that many do go through. I did not fit that mold, but nice assumption skills. You definitely put the (prettythang U me) into it. Personally I wanted to fight in fighters and I wanted to get good and even though I did play the strat game I focused on fighters 90% of the time.
And you are wrong about not wanting to improve skills in all areas.
Where did I say that??
However there is a difference between improving over time and doing NOTHING BUT one thing on the false premise that I *MUST* do what someone else THINKS I should do, else I can't have fun, won't "maximize" my experience, or some such horse dung.
The part in bold, where did you pull that out of? Where did I say that was my premise?? Again reading is fundamental, comprehension is completely necessary if you are going to reply and keep your foot out of your mouth.
To listen to you and Laz, every time I'm in a fighter and faced with an opponent I either run or die; neither is true. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't, but I still engage.
Ahhh so here is your mold. Did it ever occur to your jump first, think last brain, if your statement above is true that you do not fit the group of noobs that do run?? Hmmm maybe your not the only person out there LOLH :rofl.
I've been shot down by the best in the game and the worst in the game
I'm sure you have :aok
Maybe you do something different than I, but it's my experience that it's a rare day when you get anything close to an even fight. Usually it might start out that way, but eventually either your own countrymen or the opponent's countrymen show up and then all that superior fighter skill time investment is essentially out the window.
Ahh the true noob comes out. "but it's my experience", that's the problem, while your entitled to your opinion, your don't have enough experience to keep your opinions from being wrong. If you did you would know, I prefer 2 or 3 on 1. The only good fair fights are when you are up against some one that can actually fight past the third turn and yes those are rare. :aok Maybe when you get to the point where you can survive a 4 or 5 on 1 your experience will allow you to see this "all that superior fighter skill time investment is essentially out the window" is completely wrong and totally a noob perspective. Just because you platued, much like I mentioned you would, doesn't mean others have not gone to the next level. :aok
That's one reason I don't care to invest enormous amounts of time only to improve a skill that turns out to be less important in the overall scheme.
LOLH so tell me, how is constantly improving your ability to fight in a fighter be less important in the overall scheme in a WWII Fighter sim? LOLHROTFF :rofl :rofl :rofl. See that is exactly my point. You have given up getting any better in fighters. You said above that you can't handle anything beyond a fair fight and that when the enemy numbers outnumber you, your skills are maxed.
Like Ranger, I also like to defend airfields under attack, and if I die 20 times doing it, so what? It's just a GAME! I have never been one to grab two kills and go; I'd rather stay until the last bullet goes out of my guns, and if that means dying, so be it. I'm satisfied with it, and that's all that counts. Just as you are satisfied with what you do.
Ummm, it seems that is all this game has to offer these days, fly with potatod or up from capped fields. What is your point??
One other thing; you make a rash assumption that I choose to bomb because investing a lot of time to be proficient in fighters is "too hard." It's not that at all. I happen to LIKE bombers. When I go to an air museum, that's the first thing I want to see. Half the male members on one side of my family flew in the real ones, and there's a bit of a connection there that has nothing to do with shirking work to become something I'm not interested in.
Congrats LOL, well see where you are in 4 years...
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That's why this statement:
quote:
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You have to ask yourselves what really made you join this game. I would feel safe in saying that it was, initially, the prospect of flying WWII airplanes in Air to Air combat.
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might be YOUR idea of truth, but it isn't applicable to me. I spent years flying in AW and had all the furballs I care to. I came here looking for something better, something a little more diverse and strategic. Who knows, I might end up like you predict and burn out; then again, I might end up as you are, a Vet of the game who is continually dissatisfied that everyone else isn't living up to "my" standard of the game. Is one better than the other?
Umm read along here - " I said I would feel safe in saying, initially..." Again I did not say it was law, I did not say it was this way for every moron to come across AH.
So you are a bomber guy that was only able to get to a certain skill level in fighters. Then why do you care what the fighter guys are talking about. go back to your bombers and be happy. :aok
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Originally posted by SuperDud
So since he's in the armed forces we should all kiss his butt? It's kinda sad in a way to pull that truimp card when discussing a video game anyhow. While I deeply respect what he's doing, it has no bearing on any of this. It doesn't make him "more right" because he's in the military.:aok
PS: viper did you use to fly in the DA a lot about 8-12 months ago?
I did not say we should kiss his butt but have some respect...and yes I flew in the DA alot a year ago.
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Originally posted by viper215
...and yes I flew in the DA alot a year ago.
I thought so, now I know why you're a BOP:aok
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Originally posted by mars01
You have to ask yourselves what really made you join this game. I would feel safe in saying that it was, initially, the prospect of flying WWII airplanes in Air to Air combat.
:O
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Mars, while we don't often take the bulk of our squad head long into the horde to bust it up, squad members will often head up in smaller numbers to see what they can make happen. For us to up in large numbers, it has to be against, what is most generally, an unorganized mass of players who just happen to be rolling bases and you really don't see that happen very often. The majority of the time, two blobs of players are meeting each other between the two nearest fields in furballs. The only reason to get involved with that fight is just if you want to furball, busting it up would only cause it to move somewhere else. You should be happy that our squad, being largest and one of the most influential, doesn't just go around organizing a rolling mass of Bish. Instead we keep things fairly internal which also keep them organized and on a specific task. On any other day besides Monday, I know our guys are going off looking for a fight. Hell 100% of my sorties yesterday were in fightertown and all I flew was a Hurri mk.1 and was taking people down right and left. So I understand where you are coming from because I also enjoy good air to air, but we differ in the view of the game and how it may of changed over the years. And while it may say I joined the forum in mid 2004, I first played starting in 2002 so I remember how it was back then too. Yes we are picking up new players faster than ever which obviously means the chances of running across somebody with decent skill is tougher, but it doesn't mean the a2a fight has at all vanished.
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Originally posted by mars01
Ohh Cable you couldn't be any more of a noob. I threw out a perspective, I did not say it was law or the end all and be all of "The way it is". But your newbness jumped down my throat with your naive drivel.
You can cease the dramatics at any time; all I did was offer my opinion on my own game play and why it doesn't suit me to play as you or Laz does with an emphasis on furballing unless the bases are too far apart. You seem very closeminded about anyone else's view - such as mine - and you try and justify your own by tossing out terms like "NOOB" and such that you think must disqualify my idea of how *I* want to play.
While it's true I haven't played as long as you have here, it doesn't mean I'm incapable of trying a few things here, a few there, with emphasis on what I like to do. That's exactly how I play. I get a little better at each as time goes on and I practice them.
No I just threw out a perspective that many do go through. I did not fit that mold, but nice assumption skills.
Well, I can only go by what you wrote, and what you wrote suggested to me that my game play was somehow faulty because I didn't go out and furball enough. That's what I got out of it; if that's a wrong interpretation, sorry. Your comment came on the heels of Laz's who also seemed to say that, and I took your comment as confirming his view. Is that correct?
Again reading is fundamental, comprehension is completely necessary if you are going to reply and keep your foot out of your mouth.
Then try making your point a little clearer... I'm a NOOB, remember?
Ahhh so here is your mold. Did it ever occur to your jump first, think last brain, if your statement above is true that you do not fit the group of noobs that do run?? Hmmm maybe your not the only person out there LOLH :rofl.
See, a comment like that I take to be that you consider your vast experience in this online game somehow coinciding with wisdom, something you have, and no one else with a different opinion has. Tell me, why does it bother you so much how ANYONE else plays, to the point where you start making all these crude comments? Did it offend you that I said it appears you have a mold others must fit in?
Ahh the true noob comes out. "but it's my experience", that's the problem, while your entitled to your opinion, your don't have enough experience to keep your opinions from being wrong.
Ahhh, so here is the crux of it. You're smarter than everyone else because you've PLAYED longer. Okay, I get it now. I don't know how I want to play because I haven't been here as long as you, that it?
If you did you would know, I prefer 2 or 3 on 1. The only good fair fights are when you are up against some one that can actually fight past the third turn and yes those are rare. :aok Maybe when you get to the point where you can survive a 4 or 5 on 1 your experience will allow you to see this "all that superior fighter skill time investment is essentially out the window" is completely wrong and totally a noob perspective. Just because you platued, much like I mentioned you would, doesn't mean others have not gone to the next level. :aok
More power to you if you can survive 4 or 5 on 1. Best I've ever done is 3 on 1, and that only once, and I didn't really enjoy that, to be honest. For one thing, I play to relax, and frankly that kind of work requires, as I'm sure you can well attest, a great deal of focus and concentration, quick reflexes, and constantly moving eyes - all ten of them. ;) If I played in that kind of circumstance all night long, I'd have cancelled my account long ago. I don't need to come here and stress over a game. So I play in a way that to me is a lot less stressful, more fun, and the guys I fly with are a great bunch. We don't sweat how this one or that one plays, of how "NOOB" they are, or whatever; we just fly and try to have a little fun, that's all. If we never get some amount of kill or death ratio number, who cares?
LOLH so tell me, how is constantly improving your ability to fight in a fighter be less important in the overall scheme in a WWII Fighter sim?
It's less important than improving my gunnery skill in a bomber if bombers are what I like to fly. AHII is NOT just a "fighter sim," it's a lot more than that. Guy with your experience I'd figure would know that.
LOLHROTFF :rofl :rofl :rofl. See that is exactly my point. You have given up getting any better in fighters. You said above that you can't handle anything beyond a fair fight and that when the enemy numbers outnumber you, your skills are maxed.
I didn't say that; I haven't given up doing anything. What I said is that I'm not willing to give up parts of the game I like better only to focus on building ONE skill to some kind of supreme level. Let's just say for purpose of discussion I graduated the Mars School of Dogfighting Excellence, and as a graduate I had the skill to routinely handle 4:1 dogfights or whatever. What good is that going to do me except in the rare cases I fly fighters to dogfight? What I think you're going to tell me - and I could be wrong - is that once I achieved this level of proficiency I wouldn't want to do anything else except dogfight. Well, I would disagree. I spent a lot of time back in the AW days playing full realism arena and I was pretty good, had consistent high rankings and did fly fighters a lot, but then I got tired of it. It wasn't a challenge any more, even flying not so hot planes, and it certainly wasn't fun anymore.
That has a lot to do with why I don't want to limit my own gameplay into just one area of focus, whether that means I'd get better faster or sooner or whatever.
Ummm, it seems that is all this game has to offer these days, fly with potatod or up from capped fields. What is your point??
My point is that I don't view the game that way. I'll just go find something else to do that's fun or challenging to me if the conditions aren't very good for what I planned. You know, I can always go drive a tank somewhere, or bomb a CV or take a good hi-alt bird up and see if I can shoot down some bombers. Anything that's good fun to me.
Congrats LOL, well see where you are in 4 years...
Yes, we will. My hope is to still be here playing in a way that's fun for me, whatever that happens to entail. What I don't want to do is end up like a lot of guys who've played for a long time and complain constantly and belittle anyone who doesn't think like them.
Happy Flying.
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Would somebody for the love of all that is good and holy PLEASE close this thread?
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Originally posted by SuperDud
So since he's in the armed forces we should all kiss his butt?
we should all kiss mars' butt because he has a Pitts and if you are a good kisser he might give you a ride in it.
Hi Mars! have you lost weight?
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****, just noticed mars got PNG.
:mad:
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:lol :lol
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Originally posted by viper215
:lol :lol
:rolleyes:
To think when i started this game 4-5 years ago it was the most fun i ever had furballing and beating up on missions that were taking bases. Nowadays it's just about 20-1 lonely furballer who all he wants to do is fight his arse off with the 2 guys who first in on him and not have to worry about the other 18 noobs who can only cherry pick because this is their only oppurtunity for a kill other than the 30 undefended toolsheds on a field. I don't play anymore because everything has gotten too dull. It's a darn shame too.
I used to like comin home after rough nights or work or college and log in just to find a BK or 2 to furball with. You guys have your own opinions about people in my squad but you guys have no idea what you are missing. Don't even start to flame me because if you could just fly with these guys on squad vox or talk to them. You'd see how fun these guys really are. Their not only some of the best pilots in the game but also some of the nicest and most helpful. Even with r/l stuff they are extrememly helpful and will try their hardest to help you out.
I just wish the game would turn back to the times of the massive furballs created by missions or by a bunch of squads who loved to furball. (like BKs or 13th TAS.) I remember nights when we would all just find each other and have a furball amongst those 2 squads. Some of the best times ever.
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the way I see it.... 20 planes shooting at me multiplies the amount of ammo they are expending, thereby possibly saving a team mate that may be closing in on that base. The mission should I chose to accept it then would be to stay alive at all cost for the longest time to ensure they will all be landing to rearm when my team mates enter the fray... :p
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Originally posted by Furball
****, just noticed mars got PNG.
:mad:
Surprised it took so long.........
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Surprised it took so long.........
...more suprised it came after he started a "TY WTG" thread.
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yup surprised me as well, but then again I am talking about me. sorry to see you get put in the penalty box mars, kick morpheus in the pills for me, i'll give you $5 :D
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Originally posted by Edbert1
...more suprised it came after he started a "TY WTG" thread.
Are we sure that was the end of it? Several threads have disappeared entirely in the past . . . No, I don't have any special info, honest question.
I notice, though, that his avatar is still there. For others I thought the avatar went away at the same time. So maybe it is more the equivalent of a 5 minute "time out" rather than a permi-png.
And the well-and-truly-surprising thing is that Mars got the stick and not Lazs. . .
:confused: :huh :confused: