Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Stoney74 on August 30, 2006, 03:33:45 PM
-
Don't know anything about code or how hard this would be to model, but it seems like an easy one to me. No putting together a brand new airplane here.
Just take the P-47D-25 (or D-40 if you want to count all the field modified dorsal fins) airframe and substitute the P-47N engine. Everything else (as far as gameplay is concerned) seems identical, other than performance.
I know Yucca has asked for it before, and I know "there will be no new planes until CT is finished". But this wouldn't take very long to put together would it? Find a generic 56th skin for the default and voila. Then we get to make all those cool 56th skins... I know only 150 were built, but then that matches Ta-152 production as well...
-
I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but we already have 4 models of the P-47. We need new planes more than versions of stuff we already have.
The plane set is starting to get stale...we need something that's never been seen in any form in this game to try out and learn. Hundreds of aircraft to choose from. I'm not even going to suggest which one I'd like to see.....anything new would be welcomed in my book.
-
Unique
B-25H
Mosquito FB Mk.XVIII. with 57mm
(http://uboat.net/allies/aircraft/photos/mosquito2.jpg)
The barrel of the 57mm cannon is clearly visible.
External fuel tanks are fitted under the wing
Messerschmitt Me-323 Transport
Great for a behind enemy lines raid...
-
Originally posted by mussie
Mosquito FB Mk.XVIII. with 57mm
**pic snipped**
The barrel of the 57mm cannon is clearly visible.
External fuel tanks are fitted under the wing
Thats the Tse Tse, and HTC has said a few times it will never happen, due to the fact it would be used as an anti-bomber sniper.
B-25H would be nice, both as a strafer and a tank killer. Even better if it gets parafrags.
The Me-323 would likely be a LOOOONG ways off, as AH has no way of modelling vehicle transports just yet.
-
Originally posted by Hornet33
I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but we already have 4 models of the P-47. We need new planes more than versions of stuff we already have.
I agree with you overall. What I was trying to say is that we already have a flight model for the P-47D-25 and a flight model for the engine of the P-47N. Put the two together and you have the P-47M. Like I said, I don't know how difficult that is, but it seems like you could do it much quicker than a brand new aircraft.
For whatever its worth...
-
I'd like to bring this once more to attention with the argument that the European theater does not have a competent P-47 for low altitude work. The P-47N was apparently never sent to Europe, and it looks different enough from the P-47D that it cannot be used as a substitute for the P-47M. The P-47D in the game does not have a chance against many of its historical opponents below 20,000 to 30,000 feet. The P-47M would be a unique addition in that it would give the Americans a P-47 that could do well at low and medium altitudes and which was used in Europe.
-
Originally posted by Tails
Thats the Tse Tse, and HTC has said a few times it will never happen, due to the fact it would be used as an anti-bomber sniper.
Yes. And that would be unrealistic.
We need realism... like divebombing 4 engined heavies, IL2's being used as fighters and Mosquito's bursting into flames from the slightest near miss of machine gun fire. ;)
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
I'd like to bring this once more to attention with the argument that the European theater does not have a competent P-47 for low altitude work.
...
The P-47M would be a unique addition in that it would give the Americans a P-47 that could do well at low and medium altitudes and which was used in Europe.
Put a paddle blade prop on a razorback jug, and boost it to 70" as was officially approved in 44. This would be a representative 56th FG jug and out perform all the other Ds we have (including the N).
-
I agree completely, but unfortunately a large portion (probably a majority) of the player base is not American and therefore will not tolerate this happening. It's politically correct these days to scoff at U.S. technology, you know, and downplay its effectiveness. I believe Hitech has already said that high boosts will not be given to American airplanes. That does not rule out the P-47M, though.
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
I agree completely, but unfortunately a large portion (probably a majority) of the player base is not American and therefore will not tolerate this happening. It's politically correct these days to scoff at U.S. technology, you know, and downplay its effectiveness. I believe Hitech has already said that high boosts will not be given to American airplanes. That does not rule out the P-47M, though.
:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh
Lets see Texas based company . Prime time for play is 8pm-2 am est. That's when most #s are on. So I'd say most are US players.
HT has to go by the data he uses for a reason. That being if he uses other data it opens the door for other anecdotal data.
Just let it go and work with the tools given.
Bronk
-
What about the P-47M?
-
I believe reading before that the P47M would not be a logical choice to add to AH because it didn't see that much use in Europe and was plagued with problems when it first arrived.
Also I believe HiTech said that the P47s we have now already have a paddle blade prop.
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
I'd like to bring this once more to attention with the argument that the European theater does not have a competent P-47 for low altitude work. The P-47N was apparently never sent to Europe, and it looks different enough from the P-47D that it cannot be used as a substitute for the P-47M. The P-47D in the game does not have a chance against many of its historical opponents below 20,000 to 30,000 feet. The P-47M would be a unique addition in that it would give the Americans a P-47 that could do well at low and medium altitudes and which was used in Europe.
you're an idiot
-
Do you want to duel me, you in a P-47D and me in a ship of my choice, below 20,000 feet? I'm more than happy to do so and post the resulting film here, regardless of outcome.
-
Who gets the advantage of hosting? You'd have to play in a neutral room.
And my money's on Biggles.v;)
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
Do you want to duel me, you in a P-47D and me in a ship of my choice, below 20,000 feet? I'm more than happy to do so and post the resulting film here, regardless of outcome.
sure :)
all planes can beat any other plane if the pilot know what to do. just look at the 56th guys like yucca blukitty and platano. despite their size and weight, jugs are very maneuverable, and can get very slow.
you're an H2H guy right? what room and when? (keep in mind there's a 5+ hr time gap)
-
Originally posted by Fianna
Who gets the advantage of hosting? You'd have to play in a neutral room.
And my money's on Biggles.v;)
:D
fun fights the other night Fi :) you're good in that 38, but you could do with being more aggressive. while it's good to play by your own rules, you need to be forceful about those rules ;)
-
just saw your arena post benny, full realism, sounds kinda fun :) when do you want to do this? :)
-
I still can't believe I got my butt kicked by a Hellcat. :lol
-
Poof is TeH h/-\xXoR.
:D :D :noid :noid :D :D
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Fianna
I still can't believe I got my butt kicked by a Hellcat. :lol
don't underestimate any plane :) that hellcat can really hang, no one really appreciates it :)
and yes bronk you're right, i r teh l337 haxxor :p
-
He just challanged Bigs to fight in a JUG?! THAT FOOL! Ive seen bigs fly that jug, Jees, Im betting Bigs definetly! I agree with the dont underestimate any plane. The HMK1 is a fantastic plane, and its fun when people feel confident enough, then I shoot them down! Go on Biggles, you can win!
-
Benny Moore is anti-everything-but-America, from what I gather of his posts.
He has a very obvious agenda of making all US planes out perform all other planes.
On top of that, he doesn't bother to learn the US planes as-is very well.
Take a jug anywhere below 20k... um.. okay. Most of the fights I've had in them are below 10k (most fights usually 5k and lower). I've out-fought 109G2s, out-turned Ki84s, reversed on more manuverable enemies, and stalled out C205s, all in a P47D. [EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I suck in this plane! If *I* can do it anybody can!] Guess what? The plane already kicks much behind. If you think it doesn't, practice with it. Fly nothing BUT the P47D for a period no shorter than 3 months. You'll find out just what it can do.
-
I love how HTC can at the same time manage to both cater to their American player base to the detriment of the foreign players while simultaneously ruin the American planes because of some European player agenda. They're more talented than I thought.
-
This thread is pretty funny, if you ignore how sad it is. I'm realy enjoying the personal attacks especially. It's amazing the number of people who live in glass houses who persist in throwing rocks. Please continue.
-
Originally posted by Soulyss
I love how HTC can at the same time manage to both cater to their American player base to the detriment of the foreign players while simultaneously ruin the American planes because of some European player agenda. They're more talented than I thought.
That's indeed a sign of true genius. A wise man once said "if you can keep them all pissing and moaning, you've got it just about right". Looks like the balance is really close.
-
Originally posted by Major Biggles
just saw your arena post benny, full realism, sounds kinda fun :) when do you want to do this?
Let's try tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. my time, which would be, ah, 7:00 p.m. your time? This is going to be fun, either way! If you can pull this off I'll let you call me an idiot every day without debating it. I'd like to a few different ships, if you don't mind; I have a few historical matchups in mind as well as some ahistorical ones. In particular, I'm thinking of the Me-109, FW-190, Ki-84, Spitfire Mark XVI, and P-38L. If time's a problem I can cut a few of those out.
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
Let's try tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. my time, which would be, ah, 7:00 p.m. your time? This is going to be fun, either way! If you can pull this off I'll let you call me an idiot every day without debating it. I'd like to a few different ships, if you don't mind; I have a few historical matchups in mind as well as some ahistorical ones. In particular, I'm thinking of the Me-109, FW-190, Ki-84, Spitfire Mark XVI, and P-38L. If time's a problem I can cut a few of those out.
i can't make it for 2pm, 2:30/2:45 ok?
should be fun, as you say :)
-
Right, the server should be up and running by then.
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
Right, the server should be up and running by then.
hope it isn't full by the time i get home, lol, annoying freeloader arenas!!! (give us 32 player H2H for paying members HT!!!, password protected of course)
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It's amazing the number of people who live in glass houses who persist in throwing rocks.
You've heard the saying "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house." Well I don't agree with that, I don't think anyone should throw stones, it's not very nice. My policy would be... don't throw stones regardless of housing situation. There is an exception though... if you are trapped in a glass house and have a stone at hand... then by all means throw it!
So my policy is....
Do not throw stones regardless of housing situation, with the exception that you are trapped in a glass house and have a stone. It's a bit longer but it's a work in progress.
- Demetri Martin
-
LOL I saw that.
I need to change my sig. "So you see, at a certain point it doesn't matter how cute you are, I don't wanna hear about your damn cat!"
-
true, we need new planes...not models...b25@!
-
benny, it's 7:38 here, just got home, tried getting in your room but it's full. i'll try again til 7:45, if i still can't get in perhaps we'll do this another time. hope you get this message before then so you can make some room ;)
-
Spikes, the P-47D we have in game is hardly representitive of the real airplane, especially for late in the war.
Biggles, you there? I've got my server up and I'm booting everyone I can find an excuse for booting, but it's still full a lot of the time.
-
Well?
Film?
Thank you,
wrngway
-
Right, here it is. Current score is two for me, one for Biggles. It's only fair to him to announce that he was flying heavy (full fuel) and hung-over, and only fair to me to state that the first fight I was not ready for, even though I said I was. I was trying to bleed off my energy advantage as we merged. Biggles is the better flyer, but I still maintain that the P-47D doesn't have a chance (especially the later two) with equal pilots. [Link] (http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/josh/films.zip)
-
yup, sober and reasonably rested now, i've arranged to fly with benny again today. in fairness to benny he's actually a very good pilot, much better than i thought he would have been as an H2H pilot. he has a good mix of aggression and intelligence in the way he flies. once the 47 got slow the 38 was always just out of reach.
unfortunately i was too tired to fight last night, had to duck out after the third round, too much drink not enough sleep this weekend, just exhausted. still not fantastic today, but much better and good enough to give a fight my attention.
however benny, we should try some historical matchups as you suggested, as well as some fun furballs. i have a strong feeling that the 47 will eat 190s and earlier 109s for lunch. 109k at the end was a little much for my fried brain last night :D
you mentioned spit16, i think this might be fun. we should try some different rides. was fun flying with you, you're a challenge, you don't give any angles, but as soon as it started going my way you'd get smarter and play by your own rules, by which point i was too slow to catch you ;)
looking forward to tonight
what time were you thinking? 3:30 eastern?
-
Originally posted by Major Biggles
however benny, we should try some historical matchups as you suggested, as well as some fun furballs. i have a strong feeling that the 47 will eat 190s and earlier 109s for lunch. 109k at the end was a little much for my fried brain last night
That's my point; Me-109K versus P-47D-40 isn't fair at all, but it's the closest thing we have to a historical matchup involving the 109K, since the P-47N never went to Europe. And that's exactly why we need a P-47M.
Today I will try flying the 109 I usually take when I fly the Messerschmitt, the Me-109G-6. I'm certain you'll beat me in that, as well as in the FW-190A. But it will be fun! Spitfire Mark XVI I feel fairly confident I'll win in.
I'm putting my server up right now. Whenever you want, come in. I'll try my best to keep a spot open. Hmmm, my computer's acting a bit funny today; we'll see how this works out. Right now my computer just randomly froze for about fifteen seconds, twice in a row. It's never done that before. I wonder if it has anything to do with my house being very cold because the furnace isn't working?
-
Only, the P47s didn't really escort the bombers that much. Not in Europe. They had short legs at first, and then the P51s came into the scene with much longer range, and took over. Sure the P-47s saw plenty of action, but even the 109Gs out-turned P-47s with ease (unlike in this game), and they were thought to be easy prey. The P-47M saw hardly any service, and hardly any P-47 saw action against a K-4.
So why are you saying we need a P-47 to fight the K-4?
We have P-51s to do that (and they do it well as-is), and we have plenty of other aircraft.
-
thanks for the fights benny, your arena is a lot of fun. it was much nicer flying today, sober and slightly less sleepy :)
i'll make sure i pop by your arena from time to time ;)
while the K4 was too difficult for the D25, i won our other fights fairly easily, and i'd say that's fairly good proof that the jug can hold it's own just fine, even down in the weeds. K4 was just a bit too fast and light to get a good hit on you. and through all of this, you're a great stick too. the jug can school any plane so long as there's no uber experten behind the stick :)
! fun fights, looking forward to next time :)
-
Originally posted by Major Biggles
while the K4 was too difficult for the D25, i won our other fights fairly easily
Oh, come on! The second time in the Me-109G-6, my controls locked up. But yes, you did prove that the Thunderbolt is equal to the earlier Me-109. To be continued ... I, too, cannot wait for our next fights. I'll post our films here in a bit; right now Aces High is still running so I can't cut them up.
Krusty, that's so wrong I don't know where to begin. The P-47's escorted bombers very often, just not the bombers going deep into Germany. P-47s were not "easy prey;" in fact they did better in the air-to-air role than any other United States airplane in Europe. And lastly, P-47Ds ran at vastly higher boost pressures historically than they do in the game.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Only, the P47s didn't really escort the bombers that much. Not in Europe.
Incorrect. They did escort bombers quite a bit, they just didn't have the legs to cover some of the longer range bomber escort missions. Once larger capacity drop tanks were made available, the P-47 was able to escort bombers to and from the target, including missions that were strikes deep into Germany. They weren't phased out of the long range escort mission because they couldn't do it, they were phased out because the P-51 was able to do the escort job better.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
And lastly, P-47Ds ran at vastly higher boost pressures historically than they do in the game.
yes, but the numbers aren't official, and without official data HTC can't model it, it would be unfair. the same thing could be said about all planes. take the spit16 for example, it typically ran at 25 boost, instead of the 18 we have ingame. imagine a super speedy low alt 16 with a climbrate of over 5700 ft/min :D and that's official data too! i'm sure with some tuning it would do even more...
the fact is, HTC can only do what's best. they must give as fair a representation of a plane as possible, and without official data and accounts of those being the normal settings, it's just not right to model those speeds ;)
but yes, fantastic fights today, can't wait for the next ones, i'd love to do a 38 on 38 duel with you. next time i won't be in that jug :p
i don't fly the jug much either, i'm sure blukitty, yucca, platano or redtop could show you a thing or two that i can't :)
-
Sorry if I was unclear. I meant something along those lines. I meant at first the 47s had too short a range, and when they got the range the 51s were already doing it.
-
Originally posted by Major Biggles
yes, but the numbers aren't official, and without official data HTC can't model it, it would be unfair.
P-47 officially beeing approved for 70" boost June 44:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/24june44-progress-report.pdf
They were being overboosted by the squadrons way before that though and with the support of P&W engineers. Johnson repeatedly stated that his jug "lucky" was boosted to 72" and he finished his tour and went home about June 44. Of course, that was un-official.
-
Here are the rest of the Benny versus Biggles films. Score was three for Benny, three for Biggles. To be fair to me, my controls keep locking up for "moving them too rapidly" when I fly the Me-109, because I tend to fight the slats when I'm about to stall. In the second Me-109G-6 fight, they locked up just as I was using rudder to prevent a spin, resulting in a fatal spin. They also locked up in the first Me-109K fight, although it did not cause a loss.
The results of the aircraft matchups were as follows.
P-38L versus P-47D: P-47D won.
P-38L versus P-47D: P-38 won.
Me-109K versus P-47D: Me-109K won.
Me-109G-6 versus P-47D: P-47D won.
Me-109G-6 versus P-47D: P-47D won.
Me-109K versus P-47D: Me-109K won.
[Link] (http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/josh/films.zip)
-
first three i was drunk and too tired ;)
the third three are much more representative.
jugs can handle it's own against many other planes, but once it gets slow something with a good climbrate like a 109K4 or spit16 will get away, even if the 47 manages to out turn them, as in our fights benny.
it's a tough plane to fly though, and needs some experience. i myself suck in the jug, i don't fly it much, so i'm sure that if it was 'your' ride and you flew it often, you could do much better than i did ;)
but thanks for the films benny, i hope perhaps that people might learn from them :)