Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman_SBM on May 28, 2001, 09:08:00 AM
-
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010527/ts/bush_memorial_dc_3.html (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010527/ts/bush_memorial_dc_3.html)
I'm all for a WW2 Memorial, but this... this is an eyesore. Save the mall. (http://www.savethemall.org/)
------------------
cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs (http://www.screaminbluemessiahs.org)
The SBM's are hiring! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum11/HTML/000263.html)
[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 05-28-2001).]
-
Bullsh*t.
If it weren't for those 400,000 men and women who served their country and gave their lives in WWII, as well as the millions of other WWII Allied Veterans, we probably wouldn't have a Mall.
Hundred of our WWII veterans are dying every month, with no public recognition of the sacrifices they made to keep our nation free and stamp out the tyranny that was represented by the Axis powers.
And, more because of a political agenda than because they give a damn about the National Mall, these people keep throwing every roadblock they can find in the way of the construction of the WWII Memorial.
Shame on them, and shame on you.
Edit: I should retract this, because it was posted in anger, irrational anger. I'm going to leave it up, as a lesson both to myself and (hopefully) to others: Think before you post.
Please see my apology to Sandman below.
[This message has been edited by Degas (edited 05-29-2001).]
-
Shame my ass... Have you ever even been to D.C.? Do you know what this will do to the landscape?
Save the patriotic rant... I agree there should be a memorial, but I think the current selection belongs somewhere eles. There are alternative sites. The nearest one is a mere 100 feet away off to the side (where it should be).
Oh... and it's gawdawful ugly too. The thing looks like a memorial for Hitler.
------------------
cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs (http://www.screaminbluemessiahs.org)
The SBM's are hiring! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum11/HTML/000263.html)
[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 05-28-2001).]
-
Who the hell did the artist's rendering on savethemall.org? They left out "2 year old's rendering" on the caption.
I know the point is to overlay as bulky as possible to overstate the impact of the coming building, but that just looks silly.
Or are they actually using some new material that looks remarkably like the brush tool on mspaint? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
If there was any REAL concern about the image on the "landscape" the municipal area would be scrubbed clean of the buildings that currently exist in sight of the capitol. In other words, clean up what exists now before you try to use the tired old "this will spoil the neighborhood" argument. Property values will not fall due to the construction of the monument. If it is delayed much longer there will be no WW2 vets left to ever see it.
Mav
-
Property values? Who gives a rat's bellybutton about property values?
-
There are no homes within the vicinity of the WW2 Memorial, it is actually being placed near the Lincoln(or is it Jefferson?) memorial, quite a distance away from the Vietnamn Wall (which is placed quite nicely).
The only thing I am dissappointed about is it's location, very little parking and it's quite a walk from the national monument or the mall for that matter.
There's a little paddleboat place about half a mile away from it, where you can rent paddleboats and go out on the water.
It's closer to the tidal basin than it is to the mall, so I wouldn't say it's actually "on the mall".
I drive by that place everytime I go into VA or to pick up my sister from her school in georgetown after I get off work...
It's definitely not a scar or going to detract from DC, but it's location is very far from decent parking and other areas of interest.
-SW
-
The plan is to put it at the east end of the reflecting pool... called the Rainbow Pool... It's in between the Washington Monument and the Lincoln Memorial... Smack-dab in the middle.
Before:
(http://www.savethemall.org/images/aerial2.jpg)
After:
(http://www.savethemall.org/images/aerial2a.jpg)
-
Yeah, that's the image I'm talking about. If they want people to take it seriously, they're going to have to do more than spend 5 seconds in a shareware draw program.
-
Uhm.. what the hell is that?
Looks like a one of those fukingrooven stick characters.
-SW
-
My guess is that it's the footprint for this:
(http://home.earthlink.net/~sandmanr/image/Arch_Wash.jpg)
It's a close up view of this:
(http://home.earthlink.net/~sandmanr/image/capt.jpg)
(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2001/US/05/28/memorial.wrap/ap.w.war2.memorial.jpg)
(http://home.earthlink.net/~sandmanr/image/17th_Street.jpg)
...ya know... after looking into the WWII Memorial Site (http://www.wwiimemorial.com/), I take everything back... I'm wrong... the earlier "artist depictions" presented by the media looked horrid. These don't look too bad. I'll shut up now... Forget I said anything... Gotta stop letting misinformation get me spooled...
[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 05-28-2001).]
-
It looks good to me. I don't see where the "it'll spoil the mall" people are coming from.
-
Nah, I don't find your earlier comments too far off base, Sand. It looks rather neo-classical, much like Hitler had designs on for Germany's architecture.
The main thing, to me, is that it lacks any semblence of humanity or history.
Take a look at the close-up shot, of the people walking inside it. What in the world are they going to do there? What are those people walking up to? What will they look at?
Look at the so-called "Freedom Wall"? Ok, a bunch of gold stars to seemingly commemorate the more than 400,00 people who died in the war (the Vietnam memorial is brilliant in this regard). Are you going to get any sense of appreciation by looking at a bunch of gold stars? Didn't think so. Next!
Perhaps after staring at the stars for 3 seconds you can ponder the surrounding pillars which "symbolize the unity of the states". Uhm...ok... Nice pillars. Next!
The two arches representing the Atlantic and Pacific victories. Nothing there but bronze columns with egales, and a victory medal.
Ok.. well...the *only* place they start to get it right is the entrance with bronze panels depicting scenes of life during WWII. But it's almost as if this were tacked on as an afterthought.
Other than that, thing thing looks like nothing but an oversized trophy. When you visit this thing, I but you walk away with no greater appreciation for the sacrifices made. It's not a memorial...it's decoration.
-----edit-----
I'm not suggesting that a memorial isn't long overdue. Merely criticising the design they came up with. The fact that any memorial at all is coming so late as to not be seen by the majority of the people who took part in the war is... incredibly sad.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 05-28-2001).]
-
I have to agree with Nash on this one. It really is just like a big trophy, a more of a "We kicked your ass!" type of place. As Nash said, you won't leave thinking about the veterans, like you do with the Vietnam memorial.
I do believe that we need to build something to remember these men, just not something like this. There are over 5,000,000 WWII veterans alive now, but by 2020, there'll be only 250,000 left.
------------------
semperfi
(http://www.usmc.mil/templateml.nsf/marinesega.jpg)
Everything dead in 30 minutes or less or the next one's free.
-Marines
[This message has been edited by texace (edited 05-28-2001).]
-
I believe this is supposed to take eight years to construct... How many will be left then?
-
Eight years? *Eight* years??
A freakin' 40 story building repleat with several thousand planes of glass, electricity, plumbing, restaurant, gym, movie theater, etc. etc. goes up in *one*.
Were talking about 56 identical pillars, two identical arches and a bunch of gold stars.
Wow....
-
Originally posted by Nash:
Eight years? *Eight* years??
A freakin' 40 story building repleat with several thousand planes of glass, electricity, plumbing, restaurant, gym, movie theater, etc. etc. goes up in *one*.
Were talking about 56 identical pillars, two identical arches and a bunch of gold stars.
Wow....
Yes, but's it's being constructed in *DC*!!
It taken them two years to reconstruct/reroute the southeast/southwest freeway and they still aren't done. It just required redirected one lane and adding another one... the two lanes on either side they are adding aren't done, but the onramp to 395 is and there's several more things they need to complete.
Remember, in DC everything takes more than twice as long as it should to complete.
Why? Well... it's the nation's capitol. :-)
-SW
-
Please accept my apologies for the "Shame on you" horsesh*t, Sandman. No excuses, but this is in the way of an explanation:
My Dad and two of my uncles passed away in the last year. All WWII veterans who quietly gave thousands of dollars to the WWII Memorial Fund. In each case, our family have asked that donations to the Fund be offered in lieu of flowers delivered to the funeral homes.
This gets a little personal with me. I should know better than to post a knee-jerk (heavy on the jerk) reaction like the one above.
-
Hmmmm... It doesn't look too intrusive so I feel that "scar" may be a bit extreme.
As for the memorial itself... it seems the gesture is more important than many other things. People could sit an quibble about what was apropriate all day long... and have for some 55 years now... and nothing gets done. Now, as the people who participated in that war are begginning to die off... the consideration is made.
Dunno... it just seems kinda petty to get upset about this.
AKDejaVu
-
looks like the best use of taxpayer money in the last 8 years to me
<S> to all who are working to make this long over due Memorial a reality
Eagler
-
That is layed out kinda poorly, and it did rememind me of the commisioners trophy, when someone mentioned it.
blah...
(http://images.infoplease.com/images/hfacomm.gif)
The pilot of the "Memphis Belle" was on CSPAN for like a hour yesterday, and he was a bit upset that it is outside deteriorating and full of birds and rust.
Keeping those old warbirds in good shape and touring the country is where I vote my tax dollars first, WHILE the redesign that goofy looking memorial.
Doen't seem to interfere with anything though, being that flat, pointless bowl that it is.
-
I saw the Belle in the mid 70s and she was out in an open field (park) and looked the worse for wear. But it is now located at Mud River Airfield in Memphis and seems well taken care of. Hope Col. Morgan was just having a memory lapse.
(http://www.memphisbelle.com/belle10.jpg)
-
I think the memorial looks very nice, and would add sort of a finishing touch to the reflecting pool. Lets just hope they get it up there in less than 2 years, instead of 8.Thats rediculous and just not fair to the remaining survivors of the war.
-
Originally posted by Degas:
Please accept my apologies for the "Shame on you" horsesh*t, Sandman.
Accepted. <S>
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
I'm all for a WW2 Memorial, but this... this is an eyesore.
Sandman... SCREW YOU!
Without the Men and Women who gave everything they had during WWII you would not have that mall in D.C. anyway. Where do you come off calling this an eyesore?
Spare the Patriotism? Man, you must be a communist. Offically, I have no use for you or people like you. The WWII memorial should be there. It should be looked at as a center piece for all that is American.
That memorial should be a symbol for all to see that this country was able to pull together and sacrifice in order to fight a war on TWO fronts against very deterimed enemies. Anyone who thinks the memorial should be smaller or put somewhere else is disrespecting the vets and putting their lousy open grassy location in front of the greatest tribute to a wonderful generation.
-----------------------------
Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!
Midnight CO
(http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj/GIFs/412.gif) (http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj)
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidlj@charter.net
-
Originally posted by Midnight:
Sandman... SCREW YOU!
Without the Men and Women who gave everything they had during WWII you would not have that mall in D.C. anyway. Where do you come off calling this an eyesore?
Spare the Patriotism? Man, you must be a communist. Offically, I have no use for you or people like you. The WWII memorial should be there. It should be looked at as a center piece for all that is American.
That memorial should be a symbol for all to see that this country was able to pull together and sacrifice in order to fight a war on TWO fronts against very deterimed enemies. Anyone who thinks the memorial should be smaller or put somewhere else is disrespecting the vets and putting their lousy open grassy location in front of the greatest tribute to a wonderful generation.
Opinions are like amazinhunks. Everyone has one. Some of 'em stink...
Screw YOU! I did my time in the service, ten years in fact and I still work for the U.S. Navy right here in frigging D.C. I am a veteran. I have as much right to my opinion as anyone else in this country. Communist? Right... sure... ya... you go on... right-wing conservative nutbags who think it's unpatriotic if you don't conform or if you question authority.
FWIW, you probably missed this quote from me so I'll refresh:
...ya know... after looking into the WWII Memorial Site, I take everything back... I'm wrong... the earlier "artist depictions" presented by the media looked horrid. These don't look too bad. I'll shut up now... Forget I said anything... Gotta stop letting misinformation get me spooled...
But I digress...
Gawdamnit... Part of being AMERICAN is to embrace the differences in people and their opinions. To question my patriotism simply because I don't necessarily agree with you is reprehensible. It's not UNAMERICAN nor is it disrespectful of WWII veterans to dislike the location or style of the WWII Memorial.
The National Mall does not belong to the Republican Party nor does it belong solely to the veterans (or anyone else). It belongs to US, regardless of race, color, religion or creed.
[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 05-29-2001).]
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Opinions are like amazinhunks. Everyone has one. Some of 'em stink...
belly buttons too ;P
-
You have to admit that there is a ceratin Albert Speer quality to the design...
-
Sandman... Sorry that I did not read your later comments on this topic.
I certainly appreciate that you are ex-military and served this country.
As for the disagrement, I don't expect everyone to see it my way or they are wrong, altough my post my seem that way. However in this case, I am very firmly set in my belief that the mall is the perfect place for the memorial.
I do not frequent D.C. and have not been there in years. I don't know what kind of activities go on in the mall on a daily basis. I also don't think that there are any activites that could be more important than the respect that should be shown to the veterans of WWII.
The case for finding another site carries it's own answer. Where ever that "Other site" is, people can bring their activities there. As I said, the memorial should be a center piece, not a side item.
That's all...
------------------
Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!
Midnight CO
(http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj/GIFs/412.gif) (http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj)
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidlj@charter.net
[This message has been edited by Midnight (edited 05-30-2001).]
-
I like it. It looks dignified and fits the scale and importance of the war. Plus it sure is no artsy black hole in the ground, although that certainly seems to work and is now liked for the Vietnam memorial.
-
Am really surprised that Americans haven't honoured their WWII vets yet.
For once, I agree with Bush - build it.
That some might not like the way it looks or where it sits doesn't matter - that's totally missing the point.
This should have been done decades ago.
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
-
For once, I agree with Bush - build it.
Not that it matters, but I believe Clinton set this in motion.
No argument, this should have been done decades ago.