Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Killjoy2 on September 02, 2006, 12:17:23 AM
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This one is easy.
I'm hiring a friend to do nothing but destroy enemy ordenance. I'll pay him by the ammo bunker. There will be no more enemy buffs.
I'll set him to work 2 hours before I log on and I won't have to put up with the STUPID LANC BOXES at 1000 feet any more.
Think of it. No more dive bombing Lancs. No more Lanc hovering over GV battles. And it's not gaming the game any more than the BUFF salamanders are gaming it anyway.
Wheew, I feel better.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
Wow, I've never seen a lanc dive bomb from 1k feet before... Seems diving would take some alt... So you hate them high, you hate them low...
Seems like maybe you just don't like planes with more than 3 engines.
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What's wrong with low level lanc groups?
It's an easy 3 kill sortie.
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Wrong Kurt. I actually appreciate buffs that climb to alt. It has some realism. But I've had it with bomber boxes circling a field and attacking at low level. There's no incentive to not do it. Buff Boxes are free.
But this is an elegant solution.
(hint) FIX the Buffs. Eliminate dive bombing Lancs, B17's and B24s. Perk the formations.
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wah- - hah - hah... I lost my fighter hangers and then got vulched by a b17 :)
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Wrong Kurt. I actually appreciate buffs that climb to alt. It has some realism. But I've had it with bomber boxes circling a field and attacking at low level. There's no incentive to not do it. Buff Boxes are free.
Sure, but again you talk about low level and dive bombers in the same post...
Look, 4 engine bombers absolutely DID participate in tree top attacks... Get over it.
No, they didn't dive bomb, I agree this should be addressed.
I just wish you'd be clear which thing you're complaining about.
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Again I don't mind buffs working at alt, but I've had it with this low level crap.
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
Again I don't mind buffs working at alt, but I've had it with this low level crap.
Low level isn't crap, it was an actual tactic used by actual bombers in an actual war.
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3 words for the phoneticaly impaired....plo-est-i
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hehe, waffle rox
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Ok and the fighter pilots will not shoot the buff guys till we reach 10K and if we RTB getting ready to land under 10k they won't shoot either. Oh and btw didn't the porking of ordinace start a couple of years ago?
I think some buff guys are so decent that we will drop a line of eggs announced before hand simply right down the runway so as not to disrupt the fighter hangers. But anyway play the game the way you want and just have fun
999000
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How many times did they try Polesti style raid. OHHH they they tried it wonce with B-26's and lost every one.
Come on now. Low level Buff boxes are not good for the game. And no way are they historical. Other than a few tries.
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
How many times did they try Polesti style raid. OHHH they they tried it wonce with B-26's and lost every one.
Operation Chastise? Lancasters doing dambusting?
Low level attacks are about as unrealistic as the jet engine. They weren't all that commonly used, but they WERE used to effect. The b-25 and b-26 commonly flew missions at 10k ish. The a-20's frequently flew even lower than that. A-20s drove the japanese nuts with low level high speed bombing runs.
Also define divebombing. Large bombers never actually divebombed, but relatively shallow angle glide-bombing attacks were not unheard of.
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I'll take a low level bomber over a high bomber any day of the week. Easier to kill low ones then high ones.
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
How many times did they try Polesti style raid. OHHH they they tried it wonce with B-26's and lost every one.
Come on now. Low level Buff boxes are not good for the game. And no way are they historical. Other than a few tries.
actuaally b-24s were used in ploesti, I believe.
btw http://www.zoo.boomzoom.org - nice web addy, explains the distaste for bombers :)
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
How many times did they try Polesti style raid. OHHH they they tried it wonce with B-26's and lost every one.
Come on now. Low level Buff boxes are not good for the game. And no way are they historical. Other than a few tries.
Got to disagree, Low level bombing raids where done more than once and they survied. Watch this movie and it will show you how we constantly low level bombed Kiska Island in Alaska during WWII. It's pretty long, just move the scroll toward the very end if you don't want to watch it all. The end show them doing one of there low level raids and even the gunners where straffing the field as they flew by.
Report from the Aluetians (http://www.archive.org/stream/ReportFromTheAleutians/Report_From_The_Aleutians_256kb.mp4)
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Originally posted by Kurt
Low level isn't crap, it was an actual tactic used by actual bombers in an actual war.
Some of my favorite WW II stories are the ones where the Brits sent 3 Lancasters time and again to drop 14k of bombs on one tank. How those brave pilots would practically bring their bombers to a crawl at treetop level, jump to F3 view mode, and let loose blowing themselves up in the process. It was the only way to kill German tanks really. Thats some good reading.:aok
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4 engine bombers or any bombers that didn't dive bomb should blow up if they drop their bombs at an angle. There's already a post that gives all the info you'll need to implement this.
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HAH! Pork my ords all you want, I launch six sectors MINIMUM from my target, and cruise at 25,000!!! Then again, its not Buffs like my Thunderbird that upset you is it?
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
A solution for low level Buff groups
We don't need a solution for that. Low buffs ARE the solution. The other solution is a bucket of soapy frogs.
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F4U1-C is the solution to low level buffs.
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Originally posted by Furball
F4U1-C is the solution to low level buffs.
Keeell them.....keeel them alllllll.....
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Originally posted by Innominate
What's wrong with low level lanc groups?
It's an easy 3 kill sortie.
I'm with you, I love the low level buffs.
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On the map last night around the line of V-bases we had sometimes 3-4 groups of Lancs or 24's all dive bombing the hangers and such. I just parked on a hill at the end of the tree line and laid out some fire.... one by one they all went down. They are easy kills but it does get stupid when you get guys dropping 42k worth of eggs on you from a set of Lancs.
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early attack and destruction is the solution to low level buffs. up a big nosed Bf110 and go hunting. while there are other capable platforms in the game for effective buff suppression, such as the Mossie, C-hog, P47 La7 and the Fw190 A8 with the 30mm option I don't believe any are equally close to delivering the withering firepower the big nosed Bf110 has to offer.
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Originally posted by 999000
... drop a line of eggs announced before hand simply right down the runway so as not to disrupt the fighter hangers. ...
999000
Actually ;-)
that wouldn't be bad if we "could" damage the runway ;-) Then we wouldnt have to drop the hangers...just blow the crap outta the runways and taxi ways...so no one could take off ;-)
Then after taking the base fly in the CB's to smooth it out ;-)
Kewl Idea! ;-)
reminds me of my very first drop in AH1. I ripped that runway to shreds...only to watch in amazement as fighters rolled right through the craters ... up to my bombers and tore me a new one. Since then I just laugh when I hear anyone say "reality."
Gimme back my guns convergence on my bombers please ;-) ha ha ha
Softail
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I guess some one lost a tiger
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Originally posted by Innominate
What's wrong with low level lanc groups?
It's an easy 3 kill sortie.
Yes, and if any Bish are being bothered by low flying buffs while I'm online please give me a shout. :)
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:cry :cry i cant up a fighter for 15min what shall I do!!!!:cry :cry
1. low lancs r easy kills.
2. hangers only stay down for 15 i think we could all go 15 min with out fighters :)
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The tactics in this game will never be the same as WW2, If a Lanc gets anywhere near an nme base below 5000ft, then you must not control the airspace, hence you will be bombed by low buffs {not trying to be a jerk just comes naturaly}, but even if you remove the drone option its still not gonna stop it, even if you make it where any negative angle more than 15 degrees wont let buff drop ord, your still gona see guys boring in from 5k, and dropping lvl....
Ploesti B24 raid was more of an inteligence failure than a tactical one, I read that prior to launching raids allied command was issuing bullitins to anti air artillery that a forthcoming raid of B24's would be launching, hence tipping the germans off via radio {in the clear no less!}, Plus the pilots as I recall had minimal low level navigation experience, and many of the flights where missing the target or dropping on parts of the oil field that had allready been hit,,bad luck all around,
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
This one is easy.
I'm hiring a friend to do nothing but destroy enemy ordenance. I'll pay him by the ammo bunker. There will be no more enemy buffs.
I'll set him to work 2 hours before I log on and I won't have to put up with the STUPID LANC BOXES at 1000 feet any more.
Think of it. No more dive bombing Lancs. No more Lanc hovering over GV battles. And it's not gaming the game any more than the BUFF salamanders are gaming it anyway.
Wheew, I feel better.
Ere ere, can you set up a collection fund I will contribute gladly:D
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I see a lot of response from pilots here. From a GV driver, I got another solution. Say the average fighter sorty is 10 minutes. If buffs up with a formation of 3 buffs (By buffs I mean 4 engine heavies) and fly under 2500 feet AGL or Dive bomb then they can't reup buffs for 10 minutes per buff. If they want to waste thier buffs and crews in what was normally considered suicide missions, penilize them. Dam Busters? Check the survival rate of those raids. They were somewhat successful, but at a terrible cost.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/dambusters/legacy.htm (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/dambusters/legacy.htm)
617 Squadron, however, paid dearly for their success. Of the 133 men who took part in the raid, 53 lost their lives and 3 were captured having bailed out. Five of the Lancasters crashed or were shot down en route to their targets. Two were destroyed whilst executing their attacks and another was shot down on the way home. Two more were so badly damaged that they had to abandon their missions.
What I see more often than not from a GV point of view is a good Tank fight starts. Some noob or vet gets his GV stuffed up his nose by some other GVers and ya don't see him for 10 minutes till he arrives in a formation of Lancs 200 feet off the ground, he pops up and dive bombs the GVs dropping 2000 pounds at a time on each Tank. Someone will up and Ostwind and kill him or a fighter will rip him to shreds after a while. And I can hear the "You play your way, I will play mine" crying now. These are my observations.
Or the other extream, you will see a formation of "Fortress"es 200 feet off the deck, then the formation will pop up to 1000 feet, dive in dropping all it's ords and just fly them into the ground so they can reup faster. That is lame.
Perking the formation I am not in favor of because it really penilizes the die hard Buff drivers that use buffs the way they were intended to be used. And I don't care what side they are, 10 players flying buffs in formation at 15K+ is impressive no matter what. :eek:
F6 for bomb drop I am in favor of with a 5 second delay from F6 view to drop.
Low level drops were used with some limited success however they were rare due to the number of losses that occured when such tactics were used. Mind you I am talking about heavies not medium or light buffs.
Now for the "You just need to fly cap to keep the buffs down". If I could fly a plane, I wouldn't belong to a GV squad. :aok
LTARsqrl <>
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So is this a historical sim or not?
HTC has spent how much engery getting the flight models exactly right. If it's not a historical sim, why bother? Each caliber of munition is modeled for an accurate flight path. Why bother? All the skins have to be historical. Why bother if this is an archade game?
I think it's fair to use low level bombers. Just perk the groups. It'll work itself out. Thats hsitorical. If you loses are too heavy you'll stop doing it.
Dive bombing heavys? Is anyone going to support this as historical?
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Yes it is "a historical sim". Maybe not an accurate representation, but it is a "Historical Sim". Ya don't see people flying around in X-Wing Fighters do you? No. Historical aircraft yes. What era? WWII. Can WWII fighters climb straight up to 35K? No, because "Historically" they couldn't and didn't.
Now, in my opinion, what HTC was shooting for here is something that models as best they can, Historical WWII aircraft and vehicles and allowing us to do the rest.
During WWII did they recklessly endanger heavy bombers and their crews? No. But that is what is what I see. People will fly buffs with no intention of surviving just to drop 42000 pounds of bombs on a tank that killed them. And then after the tank is dead, just fly the buffs into the ground or bail out. That goes beyond lame and extends right into poor sportsmanship. But now people are using that tactic all the time and using the excuse that the tactic was used during WWII. Well just because someone hits his or her thumb with a hammer doesn't mean it's a good idea and should be common practice.
Bomber Command learned that low level bombing was a BAD idea and stopped using it due to the high loss rate or at best used it as a last resort. In Aces High low level bombing has become the lazy players way of killing V-Bases, GVs and Hangers. They can't hit their Arss with both hands at 10K, but at tree top level even the lousiest player in the game can hit a big building with 42000 pounds of bombs. And gee he gets to see his name in lights if he carpet bombs 2 GVs that he couldn't hit from 100 feet with his Tiger.
If a box of B-26s or A-20s comes in, I don't really mind that. Their ordinance is totally different than the heavies. Vehicles and buildings have a fair chance of surviving that unless the B-26 or Havoc drivers are fairly good.
Put Heavies to altitude.
LTARsqrl <>
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We can chatter all we want...but from prior threads its apparent that HT is planning to implement a damage lag, so that if someone dies too soon after bombs hit the damage will be reversed.
That will change tactics considerably, and other suggestions will likely be...umm...filed until the effects of HT's plans are seen.
Just sayin...
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
So is this a historical sim or not?
Let's see in the Main Arena you have three mythical countries represented by chess pieces all flying the same type of aircraft fighting over a map of a mythical area. I'd like to take a stab at this question..................... ........... NO
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
3 words for the phoneticaly impaired....plo-est-i
Was it defended with just 3 37mm guns?
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Was it defended with just 3 37mm guns?
That is the essence of the problem.We'll keep the use of low level buffs, but let's add 88mm anti-air at the fields.
-MI-
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
So is this a historical sim or not?
HTC has spent how much engery getting the flight models exactly right. If it's not a historical sim, why bother? Each caliber of munition is modeled for an accurate flight path. Why bother? All the skins have to be historical. Why bother if this is an archade game?
I think it's fair to use low level bombers. Just perk the groups. It'll work itself out. Thats hsitorical. If you loses are too heavy you'll stop doing it.
Dive bombing heavys? Is anyone going to support this as historical?
You want history? How about you have to get a crew to man your guns? You get five guys to fly with you, you get to use 5 guns.
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Originally posted by Kurt
Sure, but again you talk about low level and dive bombers in the same post...
Look, 4 engine bombers absolutely DID participate in tree top attacks... Get over it.
on RARE occasion yes. But not as a matter of routine
but really I have no problem with the low level bombers. When they are bombing level.
I have no problems with Dive bombing A20s or B26s
Lancs and 17s divebombing though is beyond absurd
bout as rare as a virgin in a Las Vegas Ho house
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
Again I don't mind buffs working at alt, but I've had it with this low level crap.
bwaaa haaaa haaaa....
u have got to be kidding me.........? no?????????
when i see low level buffs i say "HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME".
grab some cannons and its easy kills.
:D
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
During WWII did they recklessly endanger heavy bombers and their crews? No.
much as i respect u squirrel i gotta say:
sending heavy buffs in daylight, without escort,
to enemy teritory during the early part of the
bombing campain in Europe was clearly "endangerring" those
bombers and there crews.
seems to me expecting or excepting 75%
causualtie rate is pretty endangerring.
just my opinion or onion or however ya spell it =)
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I agree with ya there Soup, but they didn't send those daylight raids over at 200 feet.
My understanding is that they thought at the time that the daylight bombings were the best idea and that the buffs didn't need fighter escort because of all the guns on the bombers and the box formation.
They learned the hard way that it wasn't the case.
LTARsqrl <>
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Originally posted by Kurt
Low level isn't crap, it was an actual tactic used by actual bombers in an actual war.
True enough, but they didn't do it as a SUICIDE maneuver---hangar killing is one thing, but it takes HOURS to get a cv somewhere that it might be useful, then some puke with Lancs who can't hit a turning cv comes diving in with 42k of eggs---if one plane gets thru, even on fire with half a wing, cv is gone. Just pisses me off that pukes overcome lack of skill/practice with dweebi-ness. Mebbe I'm in the minority. Our squad does cv killing missions now and again--usually with Ki67's, or a similarly disadvantaged plane---if we miss, we rtb and try it agin. I'd be embarrassed to death if someone saw me doing suiciding a cv with heavies
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
I agree with ya there Soup, but they didn't send those daylight raids over at 200 feet.
can't dispute that one you're 100% correct there.
btw i support the addition on 88MM flak guns:aok
<>
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EDIT: btw i support the addition OF 88s.:D
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rethink that, you want 88mm guns for manable base defense, to stop low level bombers? doesnt make much sense, under 2000ft an 88mm is like trying to shoot down a plane with a tiger's main gun, the 5 inch american guns had proximity fuses that allowed automatic airbursts when the shell passed within a certain distance of an airplane, 88mm was set on the ground, its essentialy a question of modeling the correct ord/gun, so yes as a bomber enthusiast id like to see manable 88mm guns implimented into base defense, with realistic fuse.... and good luck hitting me with one.:aok
This could all be perfectly settled with a B25H, and the addition of skip bombs/parafrags...so a buff go go low without being labeld a wiener.
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Yes! Automatic Flak-Vierlings and 88s! Double the ack intensity below 16,000 ASL, and keep it the same up high. Fill the open sky with black puffs. Light the sky afire and watch the lancasters burn!
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Originally posted by bj229r
True enough, but they didn't do it as a SUICIDE maneuver---hangar killing is one thing, but it takes HOURS to get a cv somewhere that it might be useful, then some puke with Lancs who can't hit a turning cv comes diving in with 42k of eggs---if one plane gets thru, even on fire with half a wing, cv is gone. Just pisses me off that pukes overcome lack of skill/practice with dweebi-ness. Mebbe I'm in the minority. Our squad does cv killing missions now and again--usually with Ki67's, or a similarly disadvantaged plane---if we miss, we rtb and try it agin. I'd be embarrassed to death if someone saw me doing suiciding a cv with heavies
THANK YOU! Im not the only one who kills CVs from 15k minimum. And Stephen, NO. You are just trying to give dweebs an excuse! They are retards, and they dont deserve to be labled as "The first with the idea" and "Pioneers" or given new ordenance just because they were to stupid, to dweeby, and too pathetic to climb to altitude. Whil I support the addition of the Mitchel, dont give them even more of a reason to come in at low level. And hvae a perk-multiplier for altitude. Make it so you get a lot more points for killing a hangar if you drop from 20,000 feet than if you drop from 200. It takes more skill and devotion to go that high, so if you want more people to do that, reward those who do.
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Originally posted by stephen
rethink that, you want 88mm guns for manable base defense, to stop low level bombers? doesnt make much sense, under 2000ft an 88mm is like trying to shoot down a plane with a tiger's main gun, the 5 inch american guns had proximity fuses that allowed automatic airbursts when the shell passed within a certain distance of an airplane, 88mm was set on the ground, its essentialy a question of modeling the correct ord/gun, so yes as a bomber enthusiast id like to see manable 88mm guns implimented into base defense, with realistic fuse.... and good luck hitting me with one.:aok
This could all be perfectly settled with a B25H, and the addition of skip bombs/parafrags...so a buff go go low without being labeld a wiener.
I will agree, that's why I would recomn'd a mixture of AA guns. Along with the 88's you would also have dual and quad mount 40mm Bofors guns and 5" guns.
Just a thought
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Originally posted by MOIL
I will agree, that's why I would recomn'd a mixture of AA guns. Along with the 88's you would also have dual and quad mount 40mm Bofors guns and 5" guns.
Just a thought
I would recommend HTC to make a Christmas Gift for LTARs*****TUNGUSKA (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-108290870310243909&q=tunguska+gun&hl=en):)
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Originally posted by Simaril
We can chatter all we want...but from prior threads its apparent that HT is planning to implement a damage lag, so that if someone dies too soon after bombs hit the damage will be reversed.
That will change tactics considerably, and other suggestions will likely be...umm...filed until the effects of HT's plans are seen.
Just sayin...
You may be privy to something I'm not Sim, but I don't think this is something that's going to happen soon. He first suggested this idea 4 years ago, and I haven't seen anything other than "it's been discussed", or "I'm leaning toward it" in either that or the more recent thread, nor a mention of any updates at all in the near future, aside from the presumably ongoing plane updates.
Anyway, just sayin'.
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Originally posted by ghi
I would recommend HTC to make a Christmas Gift for LTARs*****TUNGUSKA (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-108290870310243909&q=tunguska+gun&hl=en):)
HELLS YEAH!!!
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you could always perk the bombs...... make em cost a few perkies. then when dive bombin lanc noobs run out of buffs perks then bye bye bombs for em
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Originally posted by stephen
The tactics in this game will never be the same as WW2, If a Lanc gets anywhere near an nme base below 5000ft, then you must not control the airspace, hence you will be bombed by low buffs {not trying to be a jerk just comes naturaly}, but even if you remove the drone option its still not gonna stop it, even if you make it where any negative angle more than 15 degrees wont let buff drop ord, your still gona see guys boring in from 5k, and dropping lvl....
Ploesti B24 raid was more of an inteligence failure than a tactical one, I read that prior to launching raids allied command was issuing bullitins to anti air artillery that a forthcoming raid of B24's would be launching, hence tipping the germans off via radio {in the clear no less!}, Plus the pilots as I recall had minimal low level navigation experience, and many of the flights where missing the target or dropping on parts of the oil field that had allready been hit,,bad luck all around,
No expert here, but imagine that a few bombs dropped on an oil refinery would lead to huge clouds of black smoke, if you were the 2nd or 3rd wave then you would probably miss by miles due to all the smoke, INMHO
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
You may be privy to something I'm not Sim, but I don't think this is something that's going to happen soon. He first suggested this idea 4 years ago, and I haven't seen anything other than "it's been discussed", or "I'm leaning toward it" in either that or the more recent thread, nor a mention of any updates at all in the near future, aside from the presumably ongoing plane updates.
Anyway, just sayin'.
You can read it here http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181845&highlight=bombs Its a bit long, but onc the main idea was beat around for a bit we havn't heard anything new on it.
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Originally posted by 999000
Ok and the fighter pilots will not shoot the buff guys till we reach 10K and if we RTB getting ready to land under 10k they won't shoot either. Oh and btw didn't the porking of ordinace start a couple of years ago?
I think some buff guys are so decent that we will drop a line of eggs announced before hand simply right down the runway so as not to disrupt the fighter hangers. But anyway play the game the way you want and just have fun
999000
lol, You funny. This is the guy that brings set after set after set after set after set of 17s or 24s towards a CV at 1000ft or less untill one or two of the drones drops on the CV before the 5" get him. 15, 20, 30 minutes, what ever it takes. It is you they complain about and you that gives the rest of the buffs a bad name.
Unless you have changed and now only fly at 10K hiting towns helping with base captures, :rofl
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
You can read it here http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181845&highlight=bombs Its a bit long, but onc the main idea was beat around for a bit we havn't heard anything new on it.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at. Big difference between "eh, maybe", and "it'll be in tomorrow's patch".
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bomb-bay opens at under 10,000 feet above ground level, all buffs vaporize.
hap
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When it's all said and done, I don't really mind low level Buffs as long as we get adequate ground defense to combat it.
Dive bombing buffs is a whole different story.
We usually get advance warning about low level buffs incoming. We just have no defense against them. An Ostwind will destroy most fighters with a single hit. But you can pound on buffs and you might get an engine to smoke or maybe an elevator to fall off. And when, after multiple hits, you do down a buff, the pilot pops over to another buff. Oh well, lost one of my buffs. No big loss. Just turn and come in again.
Give me a defensive weapon such as the 8.8-cm Flak 41 or the 5-cm Flak 41 and you can low level bomb all ya want.
LTARsqrl <>
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We need SHARKS with frickin lazer beams on their heads.
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A couple of possible features that could make use of low level bombers harder and in thoery less likely...
1. Allow only single egg drops from a bomber with a minimum time span of say 10-15 secs between each when below say 2.5k
This would stop mass egg drops on single tanks and would mean at most 3 eggs on target... if lucky..
If thatpilot wants to do more then they would have to handle the craft carefully to avoid losing any drones on a turn, to thenbe able to run and drop another egg, this in essence makes for a much l;onger time over target and only those that are dealing with gvs and NO air support are really going to suffer most.. (this is afterall a FLIGHTSIM!).
2. Only allow eggs to be dropped with say a limit of 5deg nose drop, not however affecting bank or climb angle.
the last two allow for escape evasion from low level strikes however not all the heavies could take this punishment on the airframe. It would also allow for emergency dumping of loads which I have done in past to increase climb rates fast when a hill is spotted!
Some may know that I am often a Lancaster on patrol for GV's or sometime up because I only one around. I dont get many hits with Lanc's on gv's and will use single egg salvos, with much rather 14 individual trys that may get a target each if extremely lucky (not happened yet!), than 1 big 14 on a Tiger, which can still miss..
I still can't get over the day I dropped a single egg from 15k with a single Lanc on a 'guess' and sunk a PT boat! I not been that lucky since..
Low level bombers can be killed easy, I ought to know I have lost many trying to avoid fighters and flak but too often I have got to a target with no oppostion, once a fighter or multiple flak's up I know my lifeline just got shortened unless I quick and scarper.. (I have managed to escape small number of times)
It is worth remebering that Lancasters DID take out full tiger companies in Normandy... I have pictures of that after affect of mulitple 1000'lb on them, anyone for flipping Tigers?
Yes the high volume of low level bombers in use is not historical, but then neither is running C47's into a contested airfield, or having units flying P51 and Niki together, or for that matter every 'nation' having exactly the same design of ships...
We play within the limits of the game and this is how this whole Aces High works.
Some features are removed or present to make gameply more enjoyable, learn to work with them.
If you want historical then go for all the limits and resrtictions, like the number of hours between sorties! how about real time ie NIGHT that lasts hours etc...
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Originally posted by CBFASI
A couple of possible features that could make use of low level bombers harder and in thoery less likely...
1. Allow only single egg drops from a bomber with a minimum time span of say 10-15 secs between each when below say 2.5k
This would stop mass egg drops on single tanks and would mean at most 3 eggs on target... if lucky..
than 1 big 14 on a Tiger, which can still miss..
I still can't get over the day I dropped a single egg from 15k with a single Lanc on a 'guess' and sunk a PT boat! I not been that lucky since..
LOL. Yup. Ive had a lanc DIVE BOMBE my Panzer, drop 14 bombs (Everyone in range heard me say "Aw S&%*t im dead...") AND HE MISSED BY A FREAKING MILE!!! lol
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Bombs are nothing but a blind mans shotgun. The lamest player in the game can kill a GV with bombs. It takes absolutly no skill at all to drop a 4000 lbs. Bomb from a Lamecaster and kill a ground vehilce. And least we forget that they will also let loose with the rest of the 42,000 lbs of bombs as well. Saw one guy tonight come over at tree top level in B-26s, Lamecasters, B-24s and some B-17s. All the time just spraying bombs. Give me a break. Luckly there were only two of us that took the base so he didn't have many targets to drop on. I don't think he ever hit anything other than the fuel dump and maybe the sheeps pen. 5 to 6 Ostwind hits per buff on one sometimes two before he bailed on the rest so he could reup.
Put heavy bombers back in the sky and take the lawn mower attatchments off.
LTARsqrl <>
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Your right anyone can kill a gv if they drop most their eggs from Lancasters or other Bombers, but to do so with just one pass and 1 egg takes more skill than most fighter pilots or high level buffers would like to admit..
To carpet bomb takes 0 skill and is jsut that and both WW2 and since has shown that its an ineffective use of manpower and resources, but this is not represented in AH so its not considered, thing about low buffs is any fighter pilot worth being called that can take them out.
If you a GV without any air cover and bombers come you way... tough luck, you should of had some air cover.
The nature of most of this WW2 kit requries teamwork to complete a capture and often many forget this..
If you can sneak a GV attack and capture then good for you but all it takes is a couple of guys to notice somethings up and aircover will soon be on its way to annoy you.
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You are so right. Low level buffs avoid the hoards and furball clusters. But most of the time, that is where all the fighters are. If I am flying Buffs, I fly around enemy cons so as to give me the best chance for a successful drop on my objective.
As for the one bomb drop skill, let us take a look at that for a moment.
In a ground vehicle, I am sending a 37mm projectile towards a vehicle traveling from 200 to 500 miles per hour in varying directions. This projectile must come into contact with the vehicle to damage or destroy it.
In a Bomber, in the worst case, I am dropping a bomb on a vehicle that might be moving at best 25 miles per hour. Now I don't need to hit this vehicle, just get anywhere near it, say 50 to maybe 250 foot or more kill radius.
Now a skilled armor driver can sometimes maneuver enough to avoid the kill zone, just as a skilled buff driver can avoid Flak rounds. One major difference is the Ostwind can't get above falling bombs but a buff can easily get above Ostwind fire. Buffs have 3 vehicles with which to drop thousands of pounds of bombs and armor has only one chance.
Now lets address the low-level dweebs. They are easy to shoot down with planes. Come in, strafe and egress. Ground vehicles have no egress. Sit and take it. Knowing this, every no skill looser of a tank battle will go get a box of Lamecasters and carpet bomb the battlefield. Our ground defense against Bombers is so lame it isn't funny.
Now for the tactical low level bombing, that is somewhat different in that there is precedence for that other than "I can't hit crap with a Tank so I will just carpet bomb them" mentality. If I am defending a base and low-level buffs come in to destroy the VHs or other tactical target salute to you mate. If I am alone I might get one or maybe two on the first pass if they are low. I can kill two of them and they can still drop bombs. Hummm.
We need better ground defense.
Nothing is going to change the dweebs carpet bombing GVs with heavy bombers. Nothing is going to stop dive bombing Lamecasters doing the pop and drop. As long as HTC allows it, the no skill dweebs will use it.
My posts are from the point of view of a ground vehicle player. Most if not all the other posts are from people that are primarily flyers. So I am a bit more annoyed at the lame use of bombers. It has less of an effect on flyers. Usually the first building destroyed at an airfield is the VH hanger. And we only have one of them, not 3 or more. At a V-Base we have 3 hangers and two auto flaks and one manned flak. All of which can be taken down by the worst pilot in the air with 1 microburst of cannon fire. After all, Flak batteries have paper armor and are not entrenched or in any way protected.
We need better ground defenses period. That will solve the Buff problem.
LTARsqrl <>
:aok
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
3 words for the phoneticaly impaired....plo-est-i
Hitting a LARGE OIL REFINERY/FIELD is much different than rolling a formation to hit a Tiger. If yer gonna use HISTORY, apply it to the game as well.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
You are so right. Low level buffs avoid the hoards and furball clusters. But most of the time, that is where all the fighters are. If I am flying Buffs, I fly around enemy cons so as to give me the best chance for a successful drop on my objective.
As for the one bomb drop skill, let us take a look at that for a moment.
In a ground vehicle, I am sending a 37mm projectile towards a vehicle traveling from 200 to 500 miles per hour in varying directions. This projectile must come into contact with the vehicle to damage or destroy it.
In a Bomber, in the worst case, I am dropping a bomb on a vehicle that might be moving at best 25 miles per hour. Now I don't need to hit this vehicle, just get anywhere near it, say 50 to maybe 250 foot or more kill radius.
Now a skilled armor driver can sometimes maneuver enough to avoid the kill zone, just as a skilled buff driver can avoid Flak rounds. One major difference is the Ostwind can't get above falling bombs but a buff can easily get above Ostwind fire. Buffs have 3 vehicles with which to drop thousands of pounds of bombs and armor has only one chance.
Now lets address the low-level dweebs. They are easy to shoot down with planes. Come in, strafe and egress. Ground vehicles have no egress. Sit and take it. Knowing this, every no skill looser of a tank battle will go get a box of Lamecasters and carpet bomb the battlefield. Our ground defense against Bombers is so lame it isn't funny.
Now for the tactical low level bombing, that is somewhat different in that there is precedence for that other than "I can't hit crap with a Tank so I will just carpet bomb them" mentality. If I am defending a base and low-level buffs come in to destroy the VHs or other tactical target salute to you mate. If I am alone I might get one or maybe two on the first pass if they are low. I can kill two of them and they can still drop bombs. Hummm.
We need better ground defense.
Nothing is going to change the dweebs carpet bombing GVs with heavy bombers. Nothing is going to stop dive bombing Lamecasters doing the pop and drop. As long as HTC allows it, the no skill dweebs will use it.
My posts are from the point of view of a ground vehicle player. Most if not all the other posts are from people that are primarily flyers. So I am a bit more annoyed at the lame use of bombers. It has less of an effect on flyers. Usually the first building destroyed at an airfield is the VH hanger. And we only have one of them, not 3 or more. At a V-Base we have 3 hangers and two auto flaks and one manned flak. All of which can be taken down by the worst pilot in the air with 1 microburst of cannon fire. After all, Flak batteries have paper armor and are not entrenched or in any way protected.
We need better ground defenses period. That will solve the Buff problem.
LTARsqrl <>
:aok
Awesome post, sums up any issues I have as well.
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fellas in ww2 the tanks where lucky {german} to have a flak panzer or two, and most of the time time the only aircover they got was nme aircover, that said I like to think im pretty good in an ostwind, and if I can see a lanc coming chances are ill get that lead plane just as hes dropping, the rest is just dumb luck if he misses I live and fire as he passes, if I die then its back to the ole' tower.....only thing i can say is when you see that dweeb running low in his lancs drive as fast as you can to whatever side hes less apt to turn, and fill his belly with 37mm.:aok
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Yes but often there was other cover for them to hide in, trees, buildings, the like which would cause their attackers NOT to drop. If they didnt have a target in sight, they wouldnt drop. Also, the tactics in this game are horrid. Perk the Lancaster, perk the 17, perk EVERYTHING excpet the A-20, the SBD, the Japanese dive bomber and the Stuka. AND the same way you less perks if you ditch, you lose less perks if you are killed by an enmy than if you crash thanks to dive-bombing. Also incorperate the whole if angle=X then you blow the s%$& outa yerself. AND, evden better, make people chose their bomb-drop altitude (Withint 1000 feet), and if you are outside of that altitude, the bombs detonate early, OR late. So yeah, make level bombing HARDER, MORE COMPLICATED, MORE SOPHISTICATED, MORE REAL!!! And dont say "I <3 bombers, so you SUCK!!!" NO! I fly bombers too, and these things would only make it more fun for us REAL guys. Hell, my boys fly tight, we fly real, and yet we still have fun. WTF is up with that?!? (<--- Sarcasm) So yeah, make bombing HARDER, but make it easier to get perk points. Make Heavy bombers exclusive, so only those dedicated to bombing will actually do it. There. I like that idea.
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Here is the problem with that idea. Fly a perk fighter around and watch the "Wanna Bees" swarm you like nobodies business. You want to see a hoard then look behind you.
Buffs are easy kills from the air. Perking buffs would just be putting a price on their heads. Where it might reduce the lame Buff drivers, the real Bomber Aces would pay the price.
The only correction that in my opinion needs to be made is bombs can only be dropped from the F6 position and only after being in the F6 position for 5 seconds. The other thing and might I add the most important thing is to give bases and ground units some effective Flak weapons to work with. You know, such as the 8.8-cm Flak 41 or the 5-cm Flak 41.
LTARsqrl <> :D
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Well, im saying make people pay for bombers. Dont make them worth any more to an enemy, just make them cost.
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Same result.
LTARsqrl <>
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Same result.
LTARsqrl <>
How so? If you get no more perks for killing BUFFs then than you do now, why would you swarm them more in the future? I think, I know this is going to be rejected, but in the beggining of the game you have to decide: Fighters or Bombers, and if you chose fighters you can only fly A-20s, SBDs, Ju-87s, and that Japanese dive bomber for bombing, and if you pick Bombers, you can only fly like P-40s, and other real HIGH ENY fighters. And if you decide to switch you lose ALL of your perk points.
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
Wrong Kurt. I actually appreciate buffs that climb to alt. It has some realism. But I've had it with bomber boxes circling a field and attacking at low level. There's no incentive to not do it. Buff Boxes are free.
But this is an elegant solution.
(hint) FIX the Buffs. Eliminate dive bombing Lancs, B17's and B24s. Perk the formations.
arnt bomber pilots punished enough?
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Reynolds, do you ever listen to people on VOX. They don't kill perk rides to get perk points. They kill players in Perk rides just to cause that player to loose his perk ride and thus perk points. They swarm perk rides just to grief the Perk driver. :aok
LTARsqrl <>
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Let the Ostwinds and M-16's spawn like buff groups. You spawn 3 Ostwinds or 5 M-16's to deploy for base defense.
Oh and make sure they are slaved together so that no matter where they are placed on the base they all focus on one target.
Problem solved.
(In case somebody misses the sarcasm. The idea of spawning 3 buffs with no perks is not working.)
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
Let the Ostwinds and M-16's spawn like buff groups. You spawn 3 Ostwinds or 5 M-16's to deploy for base defense.
Oh and make sure they are slaved together so that no matter where they are placed on the base they all focus on one target.
Problem solved.
(In case somebody misses the sarcasm. The idea of spawning 3 buffs with no perks is not working.)
I like it! And perhaps replace the 37mm with the 40mm Bofors that the ships have.
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Yup, another request to beef up air defense capabilities. :D
LTARsqrl <>
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And how many of you will climb to 25k to get a couple 17s? 3 at most.
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Originally posted by Reynolds
And how many of you will climb to 25k to get a couple 17s? 3 at most.
i wouldnt climb upto that sort of alt as id get moaned at by the other side.....
thats the problem in this game, you get moaned at if you are low........ and you get moaned at if you are high.
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I got to watch a lanc formation divebomb a neigboring gv base last week. I've heard people complain about it, but hadn't seen it until then. It was like watching a car accident. I knew I needed to move and do something about it, but was too stupified and curious to do anything but watch.
I know for a fact that when I started flying lancs (about a year ago, I think?), I couldn't do half the things this lanc pilot was doing without ripping a wing off or loosing my drones. Today, I'll still fly high and slow (20+K & 200 indicated) so I won't loose a wing or loose my drones before I land. Did the code change to allow a lanc to fly like an attack plane? Or did I miss something in my training?
I think I'll take divebombing lancs like I do spawn camping and airbase cap (vulching), it's something that's going to happen. It's part of the game. Key word there is GAME[/i]. It's just a game. If I didn't like the game, then I would stop playing.
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Once again.... the same Nit-Wits doing the carpet bombing today.... but today it only took 4 sets to hit my Osti while they all lost a few bombers! :rofl Dweebs!
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Originally posted by Sketch
Once again.... the same Nit-Wits doing the carpet bombing today.... but today it only took 4 sets to hit my Osti while they all lost a few bombers! :rofl Dweebs!
Now, lets not get on the carpet bomber's case. As long as he was level when he dropped, that is okay.
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Originally posted by Reynolds
Now, lets not get on the carpet bomber's case. As long as he was level when he dropped, that is okay.
He was not level... Only a few do it while they are level, besides, if they HAD to do it level they wouldn't be able to hit anything. :rofl
If you ever carpet bomb me Rey I will just laugh, at least I died by someone with a sense of humor! :rofl :aok
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Here is the problem with that idea. Fly a perk fighter around and watch the "Wanna Bees" swarm you like nobodies business. You want to see a hoard then look behind you.
Buffs are easy kills from the air. Perking buffs would just be putting a price on their heads. Where it might reduce the lame Buff drivers, the real Bomber Aces would pay the price.
The only correction that in my opinion needs to be made is bombs can only be dropped from the F6 position and only after being in the F6 position for 5 seconds. The other thing and might I add the most important thing is to give bases and ground units some effective Flak weapons to work with. You know, such as the 8.8-cm Flak 41 or the 5-cm Flak 41.
LTARsqrl <> :D
Nop, cause the real buff guys will not be found at 3K. Not many fighters above 10K alt.
Now please go tell y our squadies to stop vulching FT please.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Yup, another request to beef up air defense capabilities. :D
LTARsqrl <>
I agree with you Squirrel, base defense sucks right now, especially at V-Bases. This weekend I and a few other AK's were bouncing back and forth between three v-bases trying to defend. All that was coming in were Diving Bomber Formations, sometimes 3 or 4 sets at a time. One individual (he shall not be named) responded from a comment from me that he had plenty of moves and could kill me other ways if he wanted to... yet he logged right after most likely knowing I was going to hunt him down. It is bad when a set of Bombers at 1.5k can't get hit by auto-ack, and they just roll on through and flatten the place... Base defense really needs to be beefed up.
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(http://history.acusd.edu/cdr2/WW2Pics2/82638b.jpg)
(http://www.ww2guide.com/ploesti2.jpg)
(http://warsite.freeservers.com/images/lancaster_dambusters.jpg)
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Math, ploesti eh? low, indeed.....
http://www.b17sam.com/ploesti.html
http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/09_ploesti.html
http://www.ww2guide.com/oil.shtml
http://ploiesti.net/page12.html
http://www.ploesti.com/
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Originally posted by Sketch
If you ever carpet bomb me Rey I will just laugh, at least I died by someone with a sense of honor! :rofl :aok
Fixed it. Also, im only saying this because I have only seen dive-lancs once, as when im on the ground, I have the incredible luck of only once having encountered a lancaster, when im in the air im usually in a fighter too busy with some spit-tard to notice anything else, OR im in a bomber, and therefore at least 16,000 feet up. And I dont TECHNICALLY carpet bomb, (Never in a Heavy unless im carpet bombing a town) but when I am in, say, a 110 or an Il-2, my aim is so bad, I release several bombs on one target (I dont salvo, I adjust my aim with every bomb.) but thats only in attack planes. I am trying to master level bombing at low alt. with no bomb-sight, so you might get carpeted by an A-20! lol.
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Originally posted by Reynolds
Fixed it. Also, im only saying this because I have only seen dive-lancs once, as when im on the ground, I have the incredible luck of only once having encountered a lancaster, when im in the air im usually in a fighter too busy with some spit-tard to notice anything else, OR im in a bomber, and therefore at least 16,000 feet up. And I dont TECHNICALLY carpet bomb, (Never in a Heavy unless im carpet bombing a town) but when I am in, say, a 110 or an Il-2, my aim is so bad, I release several bombs on one target (I dont salvo, I adjust my aim with every bomb.) but thats only in attack planes. I am trying to master level bombing at low alt. with no bomb-sight, so you might get carpeted by an A-20! lol.
:rofl That's cool, I use those the same way
Do you here something whistling? Sounds like it's getting closer...:confused:
:aok
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Originally posted by Sketch
:rofl That's cool, I use those the same way
Do you here something whistling? Sounds like it's getting closer...:confused:
:aok
Ill admit, the only reason I drop 4 bombs per pass with the A-20 is because of my lack of skill. But I make a point of noting which one got closest, so I know what I did right, and what needs to be fixed. So far, event with 4-bomb-spreads, I have yet to kill a GV with an A-20 :(