Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FUNKED1 on September 04, 2006, 01:12:42 PM
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Nice historical reference on the Iraq war. I thought I'd share. :)
Link (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline)
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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typical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)
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Hi Funked,
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Nice historical reference on the Iraq war. I thought I'd share. :)
Link (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline)
You're telling us Mother Jones is against the war (name a war, any war) and that they don't like President Bush? Now that is shocking. Next thing you'll be telling us they are in favor of drug legalization, easy immigration, abortion on demand, enviornmentalism and free love. What's next, a fantasy snuff-movie where the President they hate more than the Taliban gets assassinated? Whoops, too late...
Personally, I'm getting a little tired of BDS. He's far from being my favorite politician either, but in a world stocked with Chiracs, Ahmadinejads, Putins, Al-Bashirs, Assads, Jong-Ils, etc. etc. ad infinitum, making out Bush to be the biggest of the bug-bears is just absurd.
As one wag put it, regarding a picture of protestors outside the White House carrying a sign that said: "George Bush / Adolf Hitler" can you tell the difference? I can't." his comment was "Had they tried that outside of the Reichstag during the reign of the aforementioned German dictator, they would quickly have learned the difference."
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
typical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)
Who sent you with this message funked? I don't think you really know what the word messenger means anymore. Quit trying to hide behind "ad homininem". It's getting old. So is your newly self serving attempt at righteousness.
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YOU GUYS NEED TO THANK GOERGE BUSH FOR SAVING YOU. SADDAM *INSANE* HAD MIG25S BURIED IN THE DESSERT THAT WERE JUST WAITING TO ATTACK AMERICA AGAIN. PLUS HE HAD SOME MORTOR SHELLS THAT HE WAS GOING TO LOB AT US TOO. SO I FOR ONE AM THANKFUL THAT WE HAVE SOUCH A INTELIGENT PRESIDENT AND I DONT" CARE WHAT THEM LIBRULES SAY, CAUSE BUSH DOESNT ANSWER TO THEM, GOD TELLS HIM DIRECTLY WHAT TO DO. BESIDES FUNKED, WHY YOU SO HATEFUL??? WE ARE WINNING THE WAR IN IRAQ, DEFENCE SECRETERRY RUMSFIELD SAYS THE INSURGENCY IS IN ITS LAST THROWS. OUR TROOPS WILL BE HOME BY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!
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To all of you messengers:
If you were ever to deliver a bad message in person with a smile on your face, you would learn the difference between an "ad hominem attack" and an appropriate response.
Get over yourselves already. That goes for any of the "THIS LINK SHOWS HOW RIGHT I AM IN MY BELIEFS!!!!" posters. The truly ironic thing is that people like funked will go that extra mile to make fun of a religioius "zealot" without realizing the irony.
Stop being a zealot. Stop trying to "piss the other side off". You're not delivering a message, you're sending one. Big difference. And, the message you're sending has nothing to do with the politics involved, but rather the level of response you merit.
You've hopped in with the likes of nuke and weaze funkypants. Congradulations.
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You know...
Your Military is not against this war.
When the troops start whining that it's too costly, then there is a problem.
Nothing was ever won overnight.
Besides do any of you have any idea how stupid it seemed to be out there patrolling the Arabian Gulf stopping smugglers for 10 years trying to enforce the BS sanctions. It was almost as useful as patrolling the carribean in this war on drugs. At least after we do finally pull out. That stupidity will be at an end.
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You have been promoted to the rank of Capt. Obvious, politicians lie?, golly gee... no way!! This is not new, news, or anythng but SOP.
Dums & Repubes are filthy liars & hypocrites because they are PAID FOR, little more than $20 crack ho willing to compromise themselves to get what they want..
The "party" bank rolled them into office and expects, no... demands, that all free thinking about whats best for "the people" be replaced with the "party line". Cant everybody see that plain as the nose on their face?, supporting either one of these parties is nothing more than a choice of which flavor of bullcrap smells the least offensive.
Neither party has demonstrated the ability to traverse change, they have both FAILED repeatedly.. yet they have all the $$ and have purchased loyalty along the way ensuring one of the 2 will carry on the traditions of failure we're all used to.
Pointing out El Prez is a liar, his administration is retarded, they've screwed up, yadda yadda is only a job description for whichever party hack happens to soil the office. When Bush is gone, the next hack will take over and be just as incompetent. ..
Hopefully I'll be living in Amsterdam by then... when the Puente Hills fault goes off @ 7.0+ down the asscrack of Los Angeles and the govt grinds to a halt for 5 days, the rioting and chaos seen New Orlenes will look like camp snoopy.
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swims away slowly
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i think this pond is fished out.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Poorly composed and spelled ad hominem diatribe which completely avoids addressing the subject at hand.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
YOU GUYS NEED TO THANK GOERGE BUSH FOR SAVING YOU. SADDAM *INSANE* HAD MIG25S BURIED IN THE DESSERT THAT WERE JUST WAITING TO ATTACK AMERICA AGAIN. PLUS HE HAD SOME MORTOR SHELLS THAT HE WAS GOING TO LOB AT US TOO. SO I FOR ONE AM THANKFUL THAT WE HAVE SOUCH A INTELIGENT PRESIDENT AND I DONT" CARE WHAT THEM LIBRULES SAY, CAUSE BUSH DOESNT ANSWER TO THEM, GOD TELLS HIM DIRECTLY WHAT TO DO. BESIDES FUNKED, WHY YOU SO HATEFUL??? WE ARE WINNING THE WAR IN IRAQ, DEFENCE SECRETERRY RUMSFIELD SAYS THE INSURGENCY IS IN ITS LAST THROWS. OUR TROOPS WILL BE HOME BY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!
:aok :aok :aok
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I gather funked isn't going to bother pointing out the lies and inaccuracies of the "timeline" if it doesnt serve his agenda.
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I didn't realize we had so many military historians and tacticians here. Whew, I'm glad we do, now I have someone to talk to.
Heres my real opinion on the subject. I'm in favor of fighting a counter-insurgency war against Al Qeada. I also realize that it is extremely costly in terms of all kinds of resources to wage this type of war.
First, the U.S. needs to win the support of the local population. They do this by providing them with safety and supplies. Safety being the key.
Secondly, one can never have enough translators. The locals are the ones who are able to report enemy combatant movements, booby-trap locations, caches, etc. You have to be able to communicate to find this out. But if retribution begins to be displayed on these locals for helping Americans, intel soon dries up.
So, to sum it up, you have to win the 'hearts and minds' of the indigenous population, show them that their new way of life is better, and keep them safe. And if all these things come to pass, they will help you. But if you make them angry, hurt them or do not protect them, you will fail.
The U.S. has done ok so far in Afghanistan, but nowhere else.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
First, the U.S. needs to win the support of the local population. They do this by providing them with safety and supplies. Safety being the key.
So, to sum it up, you have to win the 'hearts and minds' of the indigenous population, show them that their new way of life is better, and keep them safe. And if all these things come to pass, they will help you. But if you make them angry, hurt them or do not protect them, you will fail.
yes, the terrorists have been "winning the hearts and minds" of the local population in iraq by killing them with car bombs, :rofl :rofl :rofl
sorry, but in spite of what the democrats and CNN say Al Qeada is losing.
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How many posts has Funked used the Ad hom. I win the argument card this week.... If only Kerry had been elected we would be so much safer right Funked?
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Originally posted by T0J0
How many posts has Funked used the Ad hom. I win the argument card this week.... If only Kerry had been elected we would be so much safer right Funked?
Running around, mindlessly regurgitating anything and everything just to get a rise isn't the same as presenting an intelligible argument. In such cases, calling somebody a fool is not an ad hominem, but rather, an accurate description.
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:confused: :rolleyes: :rofl :O :t :noid
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Originally posted by john9001
yes, the terrorists have been "winning the hearts and minds" of the local population in iraq by killing them with car bombs, :rofl :rofl :rofl
sorry, but in spite of what the democrats and CNN say Al Qeada is losing.
Obviously the U.S. and the terrorists are using two different methods to fight the war. The U.S. is trying to rebuild infrastructure while the terrorists are trying to break it down.
But then again, maybe the methods arent so different. Smash infrastructure until the population surrenders, then build it up in a fashion that you like.
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Originally posted by T0J0
How many posts has Funked used the Ad hom. I win the argument card this week....
I think funked needs to get laid. And not by an FDB MIRNF.
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which way is east?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
typical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)
May be typical. But he's right
BTW
Im IN
this thread has no place to go but down
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I just have to jump in here and personally thank our saviour George Bush. Because of him today you can walk the streets of Baghdad and feel the gentle brush of flowers that the Iraqi people are showering American's with. Today the middle east is a more stable region because of him. I thank him also for capturing the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks and making the world a safer place for all of us.
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
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Originally posted by T0J0
If only Kerry had been elected we would be so much safer right Funked?
Straw Man (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) is just as bad as argumentum ad-hominem, guess he wins again. ;)
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Originally posted by rpm
I just have to jump in here and personally thank our saviour George Bush. Because of him today you can walk the streets of Baghdad and feel the gentle brush of flowers that the Iraqi people are showering American's with. Today the middle east is a more stable region because of him. I thank him also for capturing the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks and making the world a safer place for all of us.
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
You mean it was safe for you to walk in Baghdad before the war? Really?
They only started kidnapping/killing Americans after the war started?
As far as making the rest of the world safer I couldn't care less. As long as we are safer here that's all that matters to me.
Let the rest of the world deal with the "Islam is Peace" crowd they have.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Funked, you went way way left . I don't think you are far from listing "warcrimes committed by Israel" and presenting engineering theories that prove the WTC collapse couldn't have been caused by aircraft, and the pentagon attacked itself, etc...
what has that school done to you?
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Originally posted by Momus--
Straw Man (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) is just as bad as argumentum ad-hominem, guess he wins again. ;)
As a side note, I think that's it's amazing with what predictability a person's geographic origin dictates his/her beliefs, at least on these boards. Instead of posting an opinion, it almost suffices to say: 'I'm from ________', and let the readers connect the dots. Works almost every time, and the bigger the issue, the more predictable the answer.
.....Carry on, gentlemen.
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whats this thread about ?
:rolleyes:
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I didn't see the whole timeline, my mistake.
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Originally posted by Neubob
As a side note, I think that's it's amazing with what predictability a person's geographic origin dictates his/her beliefs, at least on these boards.
And another. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.htm)
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Momus your rules and logic are worthless here. But thanks for keeping score. I think I'm like 12-0 in this thread.
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Do you consider omission of relavent events to be a "lie" Funked? I do and this "historical reference" you linked is full of them. Not a single mention of the many violations by Saddam of the terms of his surrender. I'm sorry but your "nice historical reference" isn't.
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Momus, Neubob didn't even specify the precision of said predictability.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Funked, you went way way left . I don't think you are far from listing "warcrimes committed by Israel" and presenting engineering theories that prove the WTC collapse couldn't have been caused by aircraft, and the pentagon attacked itself, etc...
what has that school done to you?
I don't usually reply to ad hominem arguments (would rather discuss the thread topic than discuss me, and personal attacks are contrary to the forum rules) but I'll make an exception. You're absolutely correct. I have become a pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-tax, anti-pc, anti-affirmative action, pro-property rights, pro-family values, anti-big government, pro-national defense, pro-free trade, anti-environmentalist, liberal.
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Originally posted by Momus--
And another. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.htm)
Posting links has become a very popular short-cut to conversation... I wish I could master the art when speaking to people one on one. Instead of answering the question of how the weather is that day, I could just refer them to a website that explains why the question is silly.
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I think he's just trying to provide a service to people who don't understand how to construct logical arguments.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I think he's just trying to provide a service to people who don't understand how to construct logical arguments.
Logical arguments to what? Your initial post was nothing but another link, dropped like a steaming road-apple for all to gawk at. If you'd actually said something other than 'gee guys, look at this!' there might have been something to talk about. As it stands, you didn't, and the fact that Momus is in general agreement with the pre-digested rhetoric within said post, he ran in to support the cause, armed, as usual, with more links and enough smugness to make Dick Chaney look like Little Bo Peep.
Personally, I take no offense to your core beliefs (I'm assuming I understand you correctly). Hell, I even agree some of the time. I just think it's silly when you take a website and flash it around like some logo-heavy machine-pressed picket sign at political rally.
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Originally posted by Neubob
...and the fact that Momus is in general agreement with the pre-digested rhetoric within said post, he ran in to support the cause
You're ascribing to me an argument I didn't make, which is a straw man fallacy yet again.
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Originally posted by Neubob
Logical arguments to what?...
I didn't mean you, I meant the people whose attempts to refute the facts in my (admittedly flawed) link consist solely of arguments which suffer from the fallacies outlined by Momus and myself.
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Originally posted by Momus--
You're ascribing to me an argument I didn't make, which is a straw man fallacy yet again.
Actually, Momus, I don't agree with you. You may argue for Funked's standpoint, you may argue that the approaches of the others are fallacious and rhetorically impotent, you can even argue against my declaration that geographic location is a major factor in generating an opinion. You may argue none of all of these things. It doesn't matter to me.
My only argument, for which purpose I use the context of this thread only out of convenience, is that you're being silly. Whatever arguments I ascribed to you I did out of an intuitive (perhaps flawed) belief that you side with Funked on this matter in general, and not just on the matter of which arguments are relevant and which are two-dimensional distractions.
In short, I find the profuse usage of links funny, in this and in all cases.
So there.
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Originally posted by Neubob
My only argument, for which purpose I use the context of this thread only out of convenience, is that you're being silly.
Appeal to ridicule (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html) doesn't work either I'm afraid.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Appeal to ridicule (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html) doesn't work either I'm afraid.
As there was never a viable debate here, and my appeal to redicule was never designed to discredit any alleged claims from your side(since, by your own admission, you made none), I'd like to move to redesignate this 'appeal to redicule' as a plain and simple 'mockery'.
Is mockery allowed, given the absence of any coherent subject matter?
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This is getting rediculous now.
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agreed. I need to go to class.
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I don't usually reply to ad hominem arguments (would rather discuss the thread topic than discuss me, and personal attacks are contrary to the forum rules) but I'll make an exception. You're absolutely correct. I have become a pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-tax, anti-pc, anti-affirmative action, pro-property rights, pro-family values, anti-big government, pro-national defense, pro-free trade, anti-environmentalist, liberal. - Funked
Easy does it there, Funked. my post was in no way "ad hominem." I haven't attacked you at all. Nor would I, for your beliefs. I have no comment on your post per se', because this one, like your other post on the elements of fascism, is to be found repeated all over the liberal blogosphere. I merely noted what (appeared to me) to be a gradual change in your politics over the years.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Since the Ad Hom reply is being so thoroughly overused, especially in cases where the reply isn't actually Ad Hominem, I Just thought I'd try to expand the field of replies by giving you three more choices:
AD HOMINEM ABUSIVE - An informal fallacy where the opponent attacks
the man rather than the argument.
AD BACULUM - An informal fallacy in logical argumentation that is no more
than an argument by intimidation. The strength of the argument is on the basis
of "might makes right."
AD MISERICORDIAM - An informal fallacy where the opponent appeals to pity.
AD VERECUNUDIAM - An informal fallacy where the opponent appeals to the
multitude.
There are a few more informal fallacies in argumentation, but that should be sufficient for a month or two of replies.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Seagoon
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As one wag put it, regarding a picture of protestors outside the White House carrying a sign that said: "George Bush / Adolf Hitler" can you tell the difference? I can't." his comment was "Had they tried that outside of the Reichstag during the reign of the aforementioned German dictator, they would quickly have learned the difference."
:aok
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Easy does it there, Funked. my post was in no way "ad hominem." I haven't attacked you at all. Nor would I, for your beliefs. I have no comment on your post per se', because this one, like your other post on the elements of fascism, is to be found repeated all over the liberal blogosphere. I merely noted what (appeared to me) to be a gradual change in your politics over the years.
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You're right, I used poor wording there. Sorry.
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Originally posted by Neubob
Posting links has become a very popular short-cut to conversation... I wish I could master the art when speaking to people one on one. Instead of answering the question of how the weather is that day, I could just refer them to a website that explains why the question is silly.
LOL Agreed.
Personally I think you should make your arguement. then post a link supporting your arguement Rather then to make your arguement for you
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Funkypants... love you bro
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
You're absolutely correct. I have become a liberal.
I had to remove the smoke screen a bit but now that you finally came out of the closet don't you just want to run down to Starbucks and chug a moca latte with the lunchroom gang! All that copy and paste all over the many forums has to make a guy thirsty!
TJ
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quote by funked from a gun thread by MT.....
"(I'm a lefty)"
lazs
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The way that the world was cajoled into kicking Sadam's bellybutton is almost as unfortunate as the fact that it had to be persuaded to do so.