Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: whels on September 07, 2006, 11:30:19 AM
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guess its time to follow up and take donut out of rotation.
Rooks have taken all of FT again, 3 bases and 25k mountains, make it
near impossible to retake. so 3/4s of clients now out of FT fun.
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maybe some joint Bish/Kinght ops to return it back to normal this evening?
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I'm in.
Lemme know.
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Originally posted by whels
guess its time to follow up and take donut out of rotation.
And what would be improved by that? Still no FT Iīd guess
And by the way, the only reason those "heroes" (who turned out to be exactly the names I have suspected) capture FT bases is ATTENTION. If people wouldnīt cry without end whole day long, it would be no fun to them & it would happen less often. When FT is up, I fly there a lot. But when I saw how things went a few hours ago, I did not up (spoiling their vulches) and now I just fly elsewhere. I donīt like what happened, but i donīt let my fun be ruined by a few *insert inappropriate language here* If Iīd whine on 200, I would give them just the thing they are looking for...
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ive switched countries twice so far to help put things back in order, let me know, im game.
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Some guy said in the morning after rooks captured all FT:" With 3 A-bases in FT, the rooks can't get reset, "
Is that true? how many bases reset this map?:(
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Skuzzy could simply reset the arena and have FT start all over again ... very simple resolution.
That should be SOP ... one country takes all 3 FT bases ... as soon as Skuzzy finds out ... he reset the arena and it all starts over again.
Lusche ... there will always be FT griefers, regardless if you pay attention to them on not.
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Originally posted by whels
guess its time to follow up and take donut out of rotation.
Rooks have taken all of FT again, 3 bases and 25k mountains, make it
near impossible to retake. so 3/4s of clients now out of FT fun.
Exactly what the air Quake, greifers want Whels. Kinda tough with the inmates running the asylum these days :(
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i'll be on about 530-6pm est. is that a good time to get things rollin?
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Originally posted by ghi
Some guy said in the morning after rooks captured all FT:" With 3 A-bases in FT, the rooks can't get reset, "
Is that true? how many bases reset this map?:(
Map is reset at 3 bases left, there is no tactical reason to take FT. It is just griefing, that is all.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Lusche ... there will always be FT griefers, regardless if you pay attention to them on not.
I wont disagree about that
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If one fails to defend bases, one loses same. With all the furballers that were at FT when I was I would think they should of been able to defend if they were so inclined. Unless they had all logged or went to other areas of the main of course so there was nobody to stop the toolshedders.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
If one fails to defend bases, one loses same. With all the furballers that were at FT when I was I would think they should of been able to defend if they were so inclined. Unless they had all logged or went to other areas of the main of course so there was nobody to stop the toolshedders.
So you'd qualify as a griefer then?
The notion of FT as I understand it, was a place where the fighter guys could duke it out with other fighters, generally on the deck in one big furball. Having to contend with vulchers, toolshedders and formations of buffs wasn't really the idea.
Again it speaks to the crowd that is determined to ruin other folks fun just because. FT isn't neccesary to capture the map so there is no need to take the bases, yet folks like yourself see some need to interfere there with the fun of others.
Your words speak volumes about the MA mentality these days however. Kinda sad really.
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If it's so hard to capture, then how did a single country conquer the entire FT in the first place? Were your own horde guys somewhere else hitting empty bases? Pleas for help to defend FT fall on deaf ears?
*snicker* Man, it sucks, don't it?
Just like it sucks when people defending other bases asks for help to all the guys in FT to come down and help defend bases, and the FT guys just merrily ignores it all and have their own fun, leaving the rest of the country under the bloody grip of the enemy horde.
Comes around, goes around.
Like Nightshift says, just make a Bish/Knit Co-op and evict all them Rooks outta FT.
....oh wait.. this sounds like 'strat' thingy or 'tactical' thingy. FT guys hate strat/tactical stuff.. they like furballs, right? So FT lovers can't possibly start any organized co-effort to deal with a common enemy who took away their playground.
Yup, you guys are on the right track! When one country starts conquering FT with force, run straight to the boards and cry about it. Maybe the developers will instantly intervene and solve all the problems for all the FT lovers (who obviously don't love it enough to try and take it back with organized force of their own)
*snicker*
Man, my cynics hormone levels are way high tonight.
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The notion of FT as I understand it, was a place where the fighter guys could duke it out with other fighters, generally on the deck in one big furball. Having to contend with vulchers, toolshedders and formations of buffs wasn't really the idea.
Like a bird sanctuary?
Again it speaks to the crowd that is determined to ruin other folks fun just because. FT isn't neccesary to capture the map so there is no need to take the bases, yet folks like yourself see some need to interfere there with the fun of others.
Because the birds can't defend their own nests? Geez, were they chickens?
Your words speak volumes about the MA mentality these days however. Kinda sad really.
Indeed. Perhaps we should ask HT to put an electrical fence around the bird sanctuary some folks like to call 'Fighter Town' . That'd protect all the chickens, since it is apparent the chickens can't do it themselves.
While we're at it, I want to ask HT to put around a force field around my plane. It's no fun when I get shot down. It seems somone always has some need to interfere with my fun. I mean, who are they kidding here? Do they actually expect me to protect myself from getting shotdown?
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I'm going to show my noobness here and say I thought it was kind of a gentlemens rule to leave FT alone as far as land grab. If that's so taking it was pretty bogus in my humble opinion.
Look I don't care how other people play but I do see both points of view between the furballers and the hoardes. My preference is air combat with somewhat matched planes and learning how to fly and fight well enough to earn the respect of other 'pilots'. I'm happy to go along with a base capture if the knights have one going and there's some decent air targets to play with.
Let the groundpounders have their fun but if there are some unwritten rules of conduct those should be respected and adhered to by ALL parties. That's in my NOT so humble opinion.
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And again, your words speak volumes Kweassa.
We're both clearly looking at the game differently. My wishful thinking is clearly just that, as your way it also clearly the way it is.
To you it's war, to me it's a game. In a war anything goes. In a game you can expect a bit more of the players.
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Why do you need to take FT Kwessa and Lyel??
As many have said it has no strategic value.
You say the furballers should defend it, WTF furballers are there to furball not defend FT from aholes that cant find any fun with the rest of the map.
Just like it sucks when people defending other bases asks for help to all the guys in FT to come down and help defend bases
Again what you are saying is, I want them to play my game or I will take their game away and force them into my game. Pathetic!
You guys just can't stand it, when given the option most people would rather fight in FT than play your win the war balony.
That is exactly how your game has changed HT. :aok
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To you it's war, to me it's a game. In a war anything goes. In a game you can expect a bit more of the players.
What I see is a bunch of people who lost a base they like, and can't deal with it.
I really don't care about the existence of FT, although I do think making a separate "sanctuary" in the game map is an indicator that the strat system of the game is strained to the limit that people who primarily look forward to aerial combat alone starts thinking they need special protections to have fun. However, what I do find interesting is how people lose FTs in the first place. How many people does it take to defend Fighter town? Did the Bish and Knits not have enough people to stop Rooks at all?
Another thing I note is the utter lack of problem-solving mind. Obviously Rooks took it by force. They ruined the fun. So now what? Nobody's gonna try take it back? Seeing how people start mentioning the developers as a solution to a problem that happened in the game, due to the players' own fault, is what makes me laugh.
In the end, it comes down to this.
1) FT is just another field in the map. Great for having dogfights. But it's still capturable. So accordingly, some people captured it.
2) Some people don't like it. For reasons unknown, they can't capture it back.
3) So they come down to the forums and start discussing ethics. FT guys are good guys, FT conquerors are bad guys. I like this base. It's no fun when I lose it. Someone else takes the base, so that someone is a badsport. He ruins my fun.
The last time I checked, it was the players that were supposed to stand up and fight to defend bases they liked. And it was the players who had to retake lost bases. Not the developers.
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Nope hasn't changed in the least, the exat same stuff was happening in AW when I started playing over 16 years ago.
HiTech
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Originally posted by whels
guess its time to follow up and take donut out of rotation.
Rooks have taken all of FT again, 3 bases and 25k mountains, make it
near impossible to retake. so 3/4s of clients now out of FT fun.
That would be 100% Whos there to fight nwhen you own it all?
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Kweassa,
from what i heard, when FT was taken, it was like 60+ rooks online, vs
15to 20 knits and Bish. i imagine Bish n Knits were off doing other things on the map.
so 30 or so Rooks could take FT very easy n quickly.
now they got 3 close together bases, surrounded by 25k mountians. makes it very easy to defend, cause with 3 bases within 2 miles of each other, no way to retake without vastly more #s. couple 3 262 goon hunters pickin off c47s trying to climb over the range way easy.
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Why do you need to take FT Kwessa and Lyel??
Firstly, I don't take FT bases because I'm usually up to my neck in trying to defend other bases in more serious conditions.
Secondly, even me or Lyel actually wants to take FT bases, our reasons are our own.
Thirdly, do you ask everyone who shoots you down, "why do you have to shoot ME down? Aren't there other people to shoot down?" Obviously not, I presume. (or do you?)
In this game, people fly and fight. It's the way the game is played, so no one asks stupid questions like "why did you shoot ME down when there were others". I expect the same thing to apply to bases.
As many have said it has no strategic value.
So?
You say the furballers should defend it, WTF furballers are there to furball not defend FT from aholes that cant find any fun with the rest of the map.
This line takes the cake.
So you like the place you are having fun, but you're so into your own fun that you don't want to waste any time trying to stop someone else from ruining it? You are truly a fitting member of the bird sanctuary.
Even a three-year old kid's first reaction to someone who tries to take away his toys, would be an attempt to hold on to it and try to protest by throwing a tantrum.
Let's say you're right. FT-conquerors are a-holes. But they don't give a shi* what you think about them. You can complain here all day and they won't change a bit.
So keep on calling them names. Since your fun is so important that even an attempt to stop someone from ruining it is unacceptable, I'm sure all that name-calling will change the a-holes from taking your bases... let's say, in about 1 million years.
Again what you are saying is, I want them to play my game or I will take their game away and force them into my game. Pathetic!
Nah. I find this is way more pathetic;
"Mom! This kid in school, Bobby, he took away my toy. Make him stop! Waaaaaaaaaah"
Try punching Bobby in the nose. You may be sent to the Principal's, but Bobby sure won't try that stunt again.
You guys just can't stand it, when given the option most people would rather fight in FT than play your win the war balony.
Well, technically I'm not those guys, due to the reasons explained above at the first quote. But let's say I'm one of those guys.
I'd say to you;
"Yeah? So? What are you gonna do about it? You'll do what, huh?"
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Originally posted by Dichotomy
...snip....
I thought it was kind of a gentlemens rule to leave FT alone....
....snip...
Key word being "gentlemen."
Simple courtesy -- respecting the rights and comfort of others -- is rare enough in the real world, so its going to be rare in here.
So we either kill the ord, kill the troops, or run co-op missions to restore the balance of the Force(s).
No reason to let the few barbarian spoilsports that deliberately pee in the backyard pool ruin our collective days.
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Indeed sim :(
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commentary:
shrug......
anytime there are more than 350/400 people online the game generally sucks. Thats why I like late night/early morning online play. 150-250 people makes for a much better environment to enjoy.
Crap, when theres 500+ peeps online I just log.
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Kweassa,
from what i heard, when FT was taken, it was like 60+ rooks online, vs
15to 20 knits and Bish. i imagine Bish n Knits were off doing other things on the map.
so 30 or so Rooks could take FT very easy n quickly.
now they got 3 close together bases, surrounded by 25k mountians. makes it very easy to defend, cause with 3 bases within 2 miles of each other, no way to retake without vastly more #s. couple 3 262 goon hunters pickin off c47s trying to climb over the range way easy.
Sorry to hear that whels.
But since most people also object to any kind of more powerful side balancing or anti-hording systems, I'm afraid there ain't a thing we can do about it.
Well, we can always start asking the developers to intervene everytime something that we don't like happens... but ..
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So we either kill the ord, kill the troops, or run co-op missions to restore the balance of the Force(s).
No reason to let the few barbarian spoilsports that deliberately pee in the backyard pool ruin our collective days.
... and during the course of such action, it'd ruin the fun for other people who will in turn, be forced to the receiving end. Who's the fun-ruining spoilsport now?
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just saying.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Key word being "gentlemen."
Simple courtesy -- respecting the rights and comfort of others -- is rare enough in the real world, so its going to be rare in here.
So we either kill the ord, kill the troops, or run co-op missions to restore the balance of the Force(s).
No reason to let the few barbarian spoilsports that deliberately pee in the backyard pool ruin our collective days.
No kidding Simaril.
I cant believe that some are quiting (or atleast saying so) over this!
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Who said they were quiting??
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check the news you want to hear thread by Hubsonfire
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No one is quitting. You can't quit AH. It has no pity...no remorse, and it won't stop until you are dead!
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Filth and I know the score. Once an addict always an addict.
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Kwearsa, I think I called you an idiot in the past.
I think I was right.
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Kwearsa, I think I called you an idiot in the past.
I think I was right.
Bugsbunny, you're a nobody to me.
I am right.
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NOW CHILDREN!!!
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Originally posted by mars01
You say the furballers should defend it, WTF furballers are there to furball not defend FT from aholes that cant find any fun with the rest of the map.
I see dumb post.
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HTC reset the bases in FT , and disabled C47s/M3s/jeeps,
Thx, nice job!:)
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(beat me by one second GHI)
<<<>>> HTC
(edit: which brings up the point that FT fields are not just like other fields on the map, and the people that have been arguing that they are are/were wrong)
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:aok
Thank you
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Originally posted by Kweassa
....oh wait.. this sounds like 'strat' thingy or 'tactical' thingy. FT guys hate strat/tactical stuff.. they like furballs, right? So FT lovers can't possibly start any organized co-effort to deal with a common enemy who took away their playground.
Yup, you guys are on the right track! When one country starts conquering FT with force, run straight to the boards and cry about it. Maybe the developers will instantly intervene and solve all the problems for all the FT lovers (who obviously don't love it enough to try and take it back with organized force of their own)
*snicker*
Man, my cynics hormone levels are way high tonight.
I correct me if I'm wrong, but a good deal of guys that like to goto fighter town are guys that "been there, done that" in the land grab portion of the game. I do believe that this group is more than capible and willing to take THAT land back. And as said before, it's a huge map, plenty of other land to take. I think it's childish for a group of guys giving a country a bad name to take all of fighter town. Heck, I think even the BK's would agree and participate in taking it back. :t
edit: (darn it they beat me to it, WTFG HTC :aok )
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Originally posted by WMLute
(edit: which brings up the point that FT fields are not just like other fields on the map, and the people that have been arguing that they are are/were wrong)
How are they different?
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Originally posted by ghi
HTC reset the bases in FT , and disabled C47s/M3s/jeeps,
Thx, nice job!:)
There is a God !!!
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Who made the map? Ask that person what the intent of those 3 bases is.
That should settle the arguement
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IIRC, they did state it. anyways....~S~ HTC. Thanks for the action taken.:aok
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Originally posted by ghi
HTC reset the bases in FT , and disabled C47s/M3s/jeeps,
Thx, nice job!:)
HiTech!
Thanks for being open to this approach!
(If nothing else, it will reduce BBS server load considerably when donut is up....)
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Originally posted by Donzo
How are they different?
they are the only fields on any map in rotation that you can't up anything that carries troops. I would call that different. I would further say that it shows that those 3 fields were indeed for huge furballs, and not to be bombed, and / or captured.
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Originally posted by ghi
HTC reset the bases in FT , and disabled C47s/M3s/jeeps,
Thx, nice job!:)
WTG HT. :aok
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Originally posted by WMLute
they are the only fields on any map in rotation that you can't up anything that carries troops. I would call that different. I would further say that it shows that those 3 fields were indeed for huge furballs, and not to be bombed, and / or captured.
Is this new?
Can't they still be captured from the outside?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
leaving the rest of the country under the bloody grip of the enemy horde.
Heh, now you all have to admit, that's funny.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Kweassa
What I see is a bunch of people who lost a base they like, and can't deal with it.
It seems to me that everyone lost.... even the rooks. FT is known as a place for pilots that like furballs. Any pilot, any team. So one team capturing the other two bases in fact hurts furballers on their own team. I'd hate to know I thought so little of my own team mates and Squad.
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Originally posted by Shuffler
It seems to me that everyone lost.... even the rooks. FT is known as a place for pilots that like furballs. Any pilot, any team. So one team capturing the other two bases in fact hurts furballers on their own team. I'd hate to know I thought so little of my own team mates and Squad.
Understand, it is as much a desire to grief the other side as it is to force thier on countrymates to come and fight the war with them.
I am sure you have heard it said on country channel, "Furballer are wasting resources"
Moot point anyways, GOD has acted!
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Originally posted by Kweassa
If it's so hard to capture, then how did a single country conquer the entire FT in the first place? Were your own horde guys somewhere else hitting empty bases? Pleas for help to defend FT fall on deaf ears?
*snicker* Man, it sucks, don't it?
Just like it sucks when people defending other bases asks for help to all the guys in FT to come down and help defend bases, and the FT guys just merrily ignores it all and have their own fun, leaving the rest of the country under the bloody grip of the enemy horde.
Comes around, goes around.
Like Nightshift says, just make a Bish/Knit Co-op and evict all them Rooks outta FT.
....oh wait.. this sounds like 'strat' thingy or 'tactical' thingy. FT guys hate strat/tactical stuff.. they like furballs, right? So FT lovers can't possibly start any organized co-effort to deal with a common enemy who took away their playground.
Yup, you guys are on the right track! When one country starts conquering FT with force, run straight to the boards and cry about it. Maybe the developers will instantly intervene and solve all the problems for all the FT lovers (who obviously don't love it enough to try and take it back with organized force of their own)
*snicker*
Man, my cynics hormone levels are way high tonight.
Just lost a lot of respect for you Kweassa.
Lambo
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Originally posted by Donzo
Is this new?
Can't they still be captured from the outside?
It IS new. Pyro just did it today after he reset the FT fields back to their proper owners.
And yes, troops can still be brought in from other fields, but with 20k walls, and a multi sector flight, it makes it much harder to be done.
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Originally posted by BugsBunny
Kwearsa, I think I called you an idiot in the past.
I think I was right.
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA now thats funny. No offense Kweassa, but that was just delivered so well.
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when ever some tards take all the ft bases the ft guys shoud spend the week killing barracks and to make that easer send some bombers to the grunt training. that will keep the barracks dead longer. of coarse if some of the ft guys would take 5 mins out of vultching and keep the barracks dead in ft its doubtfull the tards would ever take and bases in ft.
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Originally posted by WMLute
And yes, troops can still be brought in from other fields, but with 20k walls, and a multi sector flight, it makes it much harder to be done.
But not imposible , last week on Fester's map i killed 2 rook M3s at A21, 10k hill without spawn, 1 sector away from closest base
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Originally posted by FiLtH
No one is quitting. You can't quit AH. It has no pity...no remorse, and it won't stop until you are dead!
Ain't that what I told you a while back?:D
Hell, I'm not flying right now, but the itch will come, and I'll scratch. I haven't even cancelled my account. You know it's bad when you pay for 60 days and don't fly.
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Originally posted by ghi
HTC reset the bases in FT , and disabled C47s/M3s/jeeps,
Thx, nice job!:)
That gives me hope. I might come on back soon. Thanks HTC.
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Who made the map? Ask that person what the intent of those 3 bases is.
I made/designed the map. F6Bomber implemented it with the AH1 map building toolset. He and others of my squad had input and review at each successive stage in the building.
The full and only intent of "Fighter Town" was to have a place where furballers could go and have fun without any strat considerations. This was intended to reduce some of the impact of the strat vs furballer, endless conflict, in game and on the boards.,
The design parameters were (I know some of these sound cynical but they are factual):
Able to take off in a N1K and HO someone from another base in 5 minutes or less
Place the town so close to the field that field ack covers town
Make fields large so as to practically prevent all hangars being down at once
Place additional ack (if allowed) at the field to deter vulching
Isolate the fields from the strategic map area
Position fields so that it is near impossible to "sneak" capture from outside airbases.
We reviewed and considered all sorts of possibilities to prevent the towns being taken - even including placing them under water (not possible). In the end it was decided that it was up to the player base to appreciate the concept or otherwise.
The only answers that I have identified to the problem, that is the point of this thread. is either player behaviour has to be modified through peer pressure or HTC have to make a decision to keep their customers happy and simply reverse FT captures as they become aware of it.
BTW in development it was never referred to as Fighter Town. I am not a furballer by nature. I always called it the "Hole". It was easy to name the map in reference to this. Also the map you play on was one of the late betas not the finished product. It was all that we could find after the map was deleted from our drives after having languished for so long unused. This one came from an old backup we had originally forgotten. The finished product had a better clipboard map, shore batteries, corrected spawns and some repositioning of bases. C'est la vie.
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Originally posted by whels
guess its time to follow up and take donut out of rotation.
Rooks have taken all of FT again, 3 bases and 25k mountains, make it
near impossible to retake. so 3/4s of clients now out of FT fun.
im confused, if its near impossible to take it back...how did teh horde take it in the 1st place?:huh
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well I played FT for the first time tonight and thought it was incredible. Got my tail handed to me repeatedly but one of the best MA nights I've ever had. Opinion... rework the rest of the maps to have this feature on all of them. I think it really would cut down on a lot of the conflict.
Nice work sir
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Thanks Dantoo
There you have it guys and gals...
No more speculation. The designer just told you what the intent was.
Any questions?
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I must admit a little bit of confusion. We were always told in the past that HTC did not want to "split the community" in the MA by giving special rules or treatment to one area of the map or the other.
Similar reasoning for not creating a "furball arena" separate from the "war arena."
Guess that went out the window. "Split the community" has been sanctioned. So I must ask, why not go all the way? Since the attempt has now "officially" been made to separate the community into an "furball area" that should not be touched by the "war", what is the point of having both on the same map at all? Seems to me rearranging the bases in the DA, restructure of the AvA (which would actually upset me very much), or perminant opening/renaming of the Backup Arena would make just as much sense as this move, if not more.
Originally posted by Dichotomy
I think it really would cut down on a lot of the conflict.
Because, no, I don't believe this will stop either the griefing or the resulting whining. Unfortunately, too many people get off on either or both.
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when ever some tards take all the ft bases the ft guys shoud spend the week killing barracks and to make that easer send some bombers to the grunt training. that will keep the barracks dead longer. of coarse if some of the ft guys would take 5 mins out of vultching and keep the barracks dead in ft its doubtfull the tards would ever take and bases in ft.
LOLH Ice, you read my mind. I logged in for the sole purpose to do just that.
Then I got a nice suprise and saw HTC reset the map and removed the griefer element by disableing strat. Well I went to FT like a moth to a bug light.
I have to say I have not had that much fun in AH since the AHII beta nights. HT thank you for giving us a place to fight even if it was only for tonight.
FT was incredible, I finally logged, hip pockets sagging - sa shot and fully spent. That was awesome!
I have to say, Donut is by far the best map we have. Even with fighter town raging there were fights going on, on all the fronts. That tells me we finally have a map that everyone can play at any time. WAY TO GO DANTOO-GRAND SLAM!
I am not a furballer by nature. I always called it the "Hole".
Furballers will no longer be called furballers, we are now called Holers LOLH :D
What a blast - thanks again HTC!
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WTF are you talking about E25280.
FT and Donut were a complete success tonight and no the community was not split. It was fighting side by side sharing an arena where every game play style was allowed. How in hell can you be disappointed with that???
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They're just bait to me. Let them try to take FT while I'm around....(haven't been on in 3 days cause of school and work :(....on the upside, my birthday is tomorrow, the 8th...I'll be 18 finally....send me presents! lol
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Originally posted by mars01
WTF are you talking about E25280.
FT and Donut were a complete success tonight and no the community was not split. It was fighting side by side sharing an arena where every game play style was allowed. How in hell can you be disappointed with that???
Not disappointed, confused. I believe you misunderstand my point. Whether on the same map or not there are now in effect two entirely separate games going on. Which is fine. I just thought that in the past it was stated this was not what HTC wanted.
My point is, this is a half measure when the full measure is obvious. Furballers want to furball 24/7 without being griefed. Win the war types want to have full run of the map, even if their chosen course goes through a "furball" area.
The half measure implemented still allows the griefing to occur. Griefing = whining on the BBs. I have to assume whining on the BBs = annoyance for HTC, or he would not have made this move.
The full measure would preclude any griefing. No griefing, no whining, ostensibly everyone would be happy doing their thing.
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Originally posted by E25280
The half measure implemented still allows the griefing to occur. Griefing = whining on the BBs.
No, that's just whining, plain and simple.
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Well your wrong to think we can't coexist on the same map as one community and it was proven we could tonight. No troops, no ords = no griefers. All that happend was the fight ragged on and a big part of the community that was not happy, is.
Honestly I would play the land grab game more if there were a fighter town on every map. It's a nice change of pace when I have saturated my SA and had my fill fighting and I don't have to leave the arena to do it.
Then when I have had my rest taking bases I could go back to fighter town etc. Split the arenas and I can't do this as easily as picking a field.
Also you are wrong in thinking having a fighter town splits the community. It doesn't. Just because there are two different styles of play here, doesn't mean the community is split. Without the fighter town there are still two styles of game play. One (strat) is totally accessable the other (Holers) is not so much.
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Originally posted by mars01
Honestly I would play the land grab game more if there were a fighter town on every map. It's a nice change of pace when I have saturated my SA and had my fill fighting and I don't have to leave the arena to do it.
Then when I have had my rest taking bases I could go back to fighter town etc. Split the arenas and I can't do this as easily as picking a field.
Fair enough. I guess I have never had a problem switching between the AvA and MA depending on what I felt like doing, so switching "furball" vs "war" arenas seems more logical to me.
Glad all had fun tonight. Hopefully at some point this weekend I can join in by flying a little instead of only browsing the BBs. . .
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Originally posted by E25280
I must admit a little bit of confusion. We were always told in the past that HTC did not want to "split the community" in the MA by giving special rules or treatment to one area of the map or the other.
Similar reasoning for not creating a "furball arena" separate from the "war arena."
Guess that went out the window. "Split the community" has been sanctioned. So I must ask, why not go all the way? Since the attempt has now "officially" been made to separate the community into an "furball area" that should not be touched by the "war", what is the point of having both on the same map at all? Seems to me rearranging the bases in the DA, restructure of the AvA (which would actually upset me very much), or perminant opening/renaming of the Backup Arena would make just as much sense as this move, if not more.
Because, no, I don't believe this will stop either the griefing or the resulting whining. Unfortunately, too many people get off on either or both.
I don't think having 3 bases set aside from the other 150 or so messes up the building battlers TOO much:furious
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WTH??????? TURN IT BACK!!! I CAN'T DOGFIGHT IN C-47 ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
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Let's see. When's the last time Skuzzy reset the arena over player request?
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None, to the extent of my knowledge over all the years I've spent with AH.
Unless the arena settings were haywire or some kind of error occured, the MA always existed as it was. Nobdody could say anything that would make HTC fiddle with the rotations or reset it on purpose, just because a special group of people found it against their own interests/ What happened inside the MA stayed inside. The players took care of it. They've DEALT with it, like it or not. All the bad and grievous stuff like ord being wiped out, fuel busted down to 25% at all frontline fields (way back), CVs being left unprotected, people hiding CVs, suicidal jabos, tard runs, hording, losing HQ bases, all dars going down... etc etc.. nobody influenced HTC, until now.
Then comes the "special interest group". People who can't stand the strat aspect of the MA. People so engrossed in their own fun, that they find it appaling even to try and defend or take back the fields they hold so dear. Despite the fact every base in MA terrains are supposed to be capturable, nobody should be allowed to interfere their own definition of fun. Therefore, everybody else who ain't a 'furballer' should stay out. They come straight to the boards, throw a tantrum, and voila, the map is reset. Troop transports are removed from the game.
Maybe HT just got tired. Maybe a new rule is being written about running the MA. Whatever it is, one thing's clear is that its an unprecedented event - the whiners won over HT.
It's interesting to think about what will come next. First, the whiners ask for a special place which serves their own definition of fun. The map makers bend over, the maps are accepted.
Then, they want that special place to be turned into an official whiner sanctuary, free from every outside influence. A place where they don't even need to defend what they hold dear. Shut out rest of the MA, play the AvA game, and don't let anyone who disagrees enter the borders. Now, they got that too. The removal of troop transports has turned FT into the official Hitechcreations Bird Sanctuary for Endangered Species.
What's coming next?
Special admission cards required to enter whiner sanctuary?
It's interesting to watch and see what new bends and curves they'll request next. And to think all them people are the same guys who post in the BBS whenever someone else whines about how some people are ruining their fun.
E25280 nailed it on the head - a bunch of people asked for special treatment, and they got it. Whining seems to work now. If something's against your own interest, gather a bunch of people and start crying about it. In the end, they might install a very special sanctuary for you too.
Me?
I'm thinking about asking for a "jets and rockets" sanctuary. All those damned high perks and base capturing ruins my chances of having pure aerial jet-lag fun in the game. I mean, three or four fields where people only up 262s and rockets aren't gonna ruin anyone else's fun, right? Why should my own request be turned down when the other set of whiners got their own?
While we're at it, let's also request for an "Early Bird" sanctuary. Only early war planes allowed, no Lgay Spit16 tards allowed. I'm sure that'll be popular. It wouldn't bother anyone - all us early war plane lovers will stay there.
..
Buncha bullshi* hypocrites.
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Kweassa, I think youmay be misreading things a bit.
HT doesnt give in to whining...just browse the boards and you'll see plenty of whines with no intervention. He DOES think very carefully before making any changes in game mechanics, sinec as he's said before there are often unanticipated effects to even minor changes. Every decision I've seen him make was based on its effects on gameplay, never once based on whines. After all, the FT whines at their worst hardly registered compared to the anti-ENY!!!
Anyway, arguments about FT have been going on since, Oh, 6 hours after its debut. A couple things ought to be obvious.
1. Everything about them SCREAMS that they were designed to be outside the main strategic flow. When HT approved THIS map, he approved the implications of the design as well. That means that HT expected the Donut itself to be a dogfighting center from the beginning.
2. Any talk of "the capture battle flowing over fightertown" as a natural event is bogus, plain and simple. FT captures are deliberate griefing attempts, except for the ONE time (IIRC) that a FT base was the final capture of a reset.
3. "Cant bother to defend their bases" is also bogus. FT captures essentially always occur during low number times, when a dozen guys can completely cap and vulch nearly unopposed. When there are only 40 on a side, and no nearby bases, you cannot defend against an implemented cap.
So it seems to me that what happened was NOT HiTech giving in to whiners. It seems to me that after months of watching the community wrangle, watching the effect of a few griefers repeatedly subverting the obvious intent of the map -- and seeing that subversion likely to continue each and every rotation -- he acted to defend the majority from the few who were trying to screw things up.
Think about those few who glitched the system by using the film recorder in game to find enemy GVs. When that minority subverted the game's obvious intent, HT fixed it FOR THAT REASON, and not because the majority shines about it.
And it doesnt mean that the community is splitting. Its one map, for crying out loud!
And while we're at it, take a look at the plane distribution on this map. When all 3 bases are up, a good 25% of all players are in the donut having a blast. Do you really believe that 8 guys at 2AM should have a right to take that away from such a large gang of players?
Why does it bother you to see all those people have fun? Why should anyone feel so strongly about the rights of the few griefers, and feel so little for the rights of the many who love the donut?
Nothing bullsh@, nothing hypocritical at all. This one isnt hard, bro....its self evident.
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1. Everything about them SCREAMS that they were designed to be outside the main strategic flow. When HT approved THIS map, he approved the implications of the design as well. That means that HT expected the Donut itself to be a dogfighting center from the beginning.
A seggragated dogfighting sanctuary impervious to outside influences by practically eliminating all elements for tactical capture?
Or simply a part of the map that is clearly more advantageous to a certain type of fighting, and yet still influenceable when the limiting conditions can be overcome by collective effort?
That's a big difference between the two. I've always viewed the FT as the latter, never the first. No place in the map should just be separated from the rest to serve a specific purpose of a certain interest group.
2. Any talk of "the capture battle flowing over fightertown" as a natural event is bogus, plain and simple. FT captures are deliberate griefing attempts, except for the ONE time (IIRC) that a FT base was the final capture of a reset.
An explanation that is so conveniently self centered. Anything that's fun for you can be as much grieving as any for someone else, on the receiving end. It's all relative - no matter how dweeby a cherry picker can be, we got no right to dictate what we think is fun over others.
Granted, you guys are merely separating yourselves and not dictating your own methods to others. However, you also have this peculiar attitude in general that your own fun and passion towards AvA fights must be defended at all costs - even if it means shutting off a certain part of the map and claiming it as your own.
Then, in the same sense, perhaps someone else should request that the rest of the game map excluding FT should be declared as an all-strat zone - no individual flying, no hording on whim, every movement on the map be coordinated by players. Any reckless, individual flying at the all-strat zone will be considered as an outright attempt to grief people who enjoy strategic aspect of the game.
You think that's fair?
3. "Cant bother to defend their bases" is also bogus. FT captures essentially always occur during low number times, when a dozen guys can completely cap and vulch nearly unopposed. When there are only 40 on a side, and no nearby bases, you cannot defend against an implemented cap.
How is it bogus when the very words came out from one of your very own? Look at mars01's comment. He clearly states in those exact words that furballers are at FT to furball, not defend anything. This clearly implies that despite conditions are given that FT may be adequately be defended, you people will still refuse to be bothered by defending anything, does it not?
So it seems to me that what happened was NOT HiTech giving in to whiners. It seems to me that after months of watching the community wrangle, watching the effect of a few griefers repeatedly subverting the obvious intent of the map -- and seeing that subversion likely to continue each and every rotation -- he acted to defend the majority from the few who were trying to screw things up.
What makes you think you're the majority? Because you guys are more vocal in the BBS?
Think about those few who glitched the system by using the film recorder in game to find enemy GVs. When that minority subverted the game's obvious intent, HT fixed it FOR THAT REASON, and not because the majority shines about it.
In that case, HT fixed a bug.
In this case, HT allowed the community be split up in the MA by with virtual inaccessibility.
Call it what ever you want - intentional griefing, or just trying legitimate capture against bases where there are people. HT took one preference of how people play the game, which was totally legitimate by MA rules and standards, and removed it from the FT as a no-tresspassing zone by removal of critical game element.
In the end, no matter which way you look at it, of the two different preferences in how people want to play in the MA, HT picked a side, and made a special arrangement.
Nothing bullsh@, nothing hypocritical at all. This one isnt hard, bro....
Not really. It is quite elaborate from the beginning to the end. It shows how much the self-proclaimed 'vets' are self-centered with obvious hypocritical double standards in judging what is right or wrong, when their own interest is involved.
The FT being overrun sucks. I never disagreed with that.
Nor am I one of those people who screw FT over. Having your favorite battle zone being ruined sucks, anyone understands that.
But there are plenty of things that can happen in the MA that sucks. Plenty of people come to the boards in protest about how some people are ruining what they think is fun. Everytime those posts are up, the vets show up ridiculing the protester, saying how they should just deal with it. Post funny internet photos of wine bottles and cheese.
When it comes to their own interest, an isolated event such as this comes up (I mean really, how often does the FT get conquered by one side during the entire span of the map?) and immediately they run to the boards and start a flogging contest on how tardly everyone else who don't share the same sentiments are.
What makes you guys so special that your own fun should be protected over others? I don't know what the hell the FT conquering boys were thinking, but I'll bet they had plenty of fun conquering it, driving out everyone else and claiming sole dominion. I don't give a shi* about its ethics because capturing territories is a way this game is played. They played by the book, aided by favorable circumstances in player numbers, and earned the right by conquest as any other field in the game could be.
Now, that's been blocked. No fun for the FT-busting boys.
So their way of having "fun" is not important as your own?
If this ain't blatant hypocrisy, then I don't know what is. HT probably decided on the most effective and immediate method to soothe the whiney buggers, and perhaps what he did was good. Frankly it's his game so he may do whatever he wants it. No, I got no beef with HT.
The only beef here's with the hypocrites, and I accuse them of their double standards and bigotry in general matters concerning AH.
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
im confused, if its near impossible to take it back...how did teh horde take it in the 1st place?:huh
Once one country has taken all 3 bases, troops n bombs have to be flown in from another base... over the 25k mountains. That's what makes it hard.
I'm surprised that the furballer Rooks allowed this to happen... I mean, it ruined their fun too.
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I don't understand HT action ... the players should have corrected this using the game dynamic as is, it was not a bug needing a divine intervension.
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You guys should write a book. :D
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it just proves that prayers do not go un-answered :D
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kweassa,
I'm not looking to get a 1v1 here, but you seem way more stoked than the situation warrants. This isnt a crisis!
You cant claim to be a neutral observer with your previous posts; you have taken a pretty aggressive anti- furballer position. You also seem to be really loose with the "you guys" accusations. That's the logical equivalent of saying the entire rook country captured FT....So just because I think HT did a good thing here doesnt mean I'm part of some anti base capture union headed by Mars and Lazs.
Honestly -- whats is the big deal if one map in the rotation gives a special nod to air to air guys? That's all this is!
Well, you're right that the FT bases can be defended (they usually are), and that they can be recaptured -- though it takes extraordinary effort. Can you recall anything else that triggered a multi-country cooperative capture raid? The guys who like the donut ARE willing to do a lot to keep it functioning.
What makes HT intervention appropriate?
Just this: a small segment of the AH community gets off on jsut busting chops. (That smallness is what I meant to contrast against the "majority" in my last post. Even so, count the planes in FT sometime -- a huge plurality of players prefer that donut, whether you like it or not.)
Anyway, that small group of griefers can use very little effort, if timed right, to deprive a very large chunk of AH their fun. Reparing that takes an inordinate amount of corrective effort, especially when the griefers can do it all over again easily. Then, they get to sit back and watch the anguish that was theuir goal all along.
Look, Kweassa... you yourself said
originally posted by Kweassa
....I really don't care about the existence of FT, although I do think making a separate "sanctuary" in the game map is an indicator that the strat system of the game is strained to the limit....
So if the game construction we call the strat system is off a bit, why the heck should a game construction like no capture vehicles in FT be a big deal?
Or to put it differently --
If you think the FT advocates should be expected to cooperatively climb 25K mountains to get FT back, why the heck shouldnt it be right to expect the nonFT griefers to have to do that instead? After all, jsut like we could do that to RE-capture the bases, YOU still can do that to TRY to capture them!!!!
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kweezy.... you sure seem to convert from arrogant and cynical and condencending to angry and pouty and profane....
seamlessly... congrats.
What is it about a FT that can't be captured or gets reset when it does that bothers you? Is it that it is a place where people can do something dirfferent than whorde? is it that it offers choice?
Wastes resources? What? It is a place where anyone can go and do something a little different... I seen lots of landgrab guys in there having a good time. It is a place where people can sharpen up their sa or just have an hour or two of mindless fun...
or not.
You can fly one or ten sorties there and then go somewhere else on the map and do something else... it is simply more choice not less.
Fields being far apart is a "sanctuary" for whorde types and strat types... their whining have changed good maps in the past.
The FT only "affects" you if you go there or.... if seeing other people having fun bothers you. If you can't grief it or revel in it when someone else does.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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This subject is getting stale. Someone should start a HO thread to pull attention away from Fighter Town. :)
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Kweassa
Over the past couple of weeks I've watched the argument rage between the (now) 'Holers' and 'strat' guys. I've also gone on record as saying to other furballers that, while I didn't agree with the delivery, I understood the message.
As the game grows the dynamics change. I think HTC did a GOOD thing here by giving the guys that desire pure air combat a place to go and get into it quickly. I'd like to see this addressed on different maps as well as I personally got a great deal of enjoyment out of it last night.
Regardless of wheter HTC has said in the past that they won't give in to the demands of a few I would think just by observation of the map last night it shows that the strat guys were doing their thing and the furballers were doing their thing. Everybody was doing what they WANTED TO DO and getting value for their entertainment dollar.
This is a smart business move by HTC. As the customer base evolves and grow you might have to change your initial business strategy to maximize your customer base. My business is steel fabrication but recently we've seen an opportunity to get into aluminum which as recently as 12 months ago we said we weren't interested in. Guess what? Aluminum sales made up for 10% of our net profits for this fiscal year. Okay apply that here. A strategic decision was made, possibly as an experiment, but I think so far a successful one that will A) keep the large part of the customer base happy and B) reduce or hopefully eliminate the fights on these boards.
Look I'm never going to agree to ad nauseum attacks on this or any other board. They are pointless, childish, and really solve nothing. But in THIS case I do think the Holers had a point. Possibly delivered in an abrasive and non diplomatic way at times but a valid point nonetheless.
I'd recommend that everybody back off and lets see where this map change takes us now and into the future.
For me as a noob this offers me the opportunity to decide when I log in each night if I want to join a team in taking a base or do I just want to go up and have Mars, Laz, or somebody else hand my butt to me in the air.
I just got extra value for my (actually) $16.02 a month. I'm happy and as a newer customer I see that something I'd like added to my service has been done.
This time it's not just my opinion. It's a belief.
Warmest regards sir.
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Why do you care Kweassa??
You have the rest of the map to cherry pick, potatod, jerk off or what ever you call what you do. So take the rest of the map and go do it and quit crying. All we asked for were 3 bases on the entire map where it's just about the fighting.
What is so wrong with 3 bases being given up so that a large part of the community can play the game they choose to play.
Honestly if there were a FT on every map, I would get my Furballing fix and then eventually want a change of pace and might pick up the strat game a little bit again. And the beauty of it would be, when I get bored taking bases I could go back to what I love in an instant, without flying around hoping to run into someone that wants to fight, without finding a great fight only to have the potatod be right behind me and ruin it. I dont have to look at a map and search as if for the holy grail just to find a decent fight, which many times comes up empty.
As laz, et-al have mentioned, FT gives the AH community choices. Choice is good in a game.
For me as a noob this offers me the opportunity to decide when I log in each night if I want to join a team in taking a base or do I just want to go up and have Mars, Laz, or somebody else hand my butt to me in the air.
HEhehee Last night was your night bud, my SA sucked, I was over controlling my plane for the better part of the night. I was pure bait LOL :D and loved every minute of it. :aok
CHOICE IS GOOD!
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Originally posted by Dantoo
I
The design parameters were (I know some of these sound cynical but they are factual):
Able to take off in a N1K and HO someone from another base in 5 minutes or less
Place the town so close to the field that field ack covers town
Make fields large so as to practically prevent all hangars being down at once
Place additional ack (if allowed) at the field to deter vulching
Isolate the fields from the strategic map area
Position fields so that it is near impossible to "sneak" capture from outside airbases.
:lol A subtle yet sarcastic comment on the state of the AH nation. Well said Dantoo :aok I was ambivalent about this terrain until I read this. It is now my absolute favorite.
Cheers,
asw
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Kwe is just sour grapes cause, as the "Founder of the New Perk Agenda" and the "Founder of the UTSTAFF Movement", these personal agendas haven't made a blip on HTCs radar.
Its OK for him to bring forth proposed changes which he believes will better the Aces High experience, but damn all those others who have other agendas.
FT is NOT UN-CAPTURABLE. It can still be captured, but only using resources outside of the 20K mountains. That will make it extremely difficult for griefer to take bases ... if they decide to try at all. Griefers usually look for the easy way out.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
FT is NOT UN-CAPTURABLE. It can still be captured, but only using resources outside of the 20K mountains. That will make it extremely difficult for griefer to take bases ... if they decide to try at all. Griefers usually look for the easy way out.
Now it is just as hard to capture the it first time as it is to recapture it.
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1. Everything about them SCREAMS that they were designed to be outside the main strategic flow. When HT approved THIS map, he approved the implications of the design as well. That means that HT expected the Donut itself to be a dogfighting center from the beginning.
Never saw a design for the map.
Acctualy I didn't ever get a chance to see this map in any way until it was already being tested in the backup arena.
The not getting to see it is entirerly my fault, and is corrected for future terrains.
Some one please dig up my comments about the map right after it was released, and see if my concerns at that time were well founded?
HiTech
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Bugsbunny, you're a nobody to me.
I am right.
We are both right. I am very happy about that :rofl
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Originally posted by hitech
Some one please dig up my comments about the map right after it was released, and see if my concerns at that time were well founded?
HiTech
Isn't the point for everyone to try to piss everyone else off? This means donut is good, right? :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
So you'd qualify as a griefer then?
The notion of FT as I understand it, was a place where the fighter guys could duke it out with other fighters, generally on the deck in one big furball. Having to contend with vulchers, toolshedders and formations of buffs wasn't really the idea.
Again it speaks to the crowd that is determined to ruin other folks fun just because. FT isn't neccesary to capture the map so there is no need to take the bases, yet folks like yourself see some need to interfere there with the fun of others.
Your words speak volumes about the MA mentality these days however. Kinda sad really.
I only qualify as a griefer if you are one also. I was there in Ki-84s and Corsairs.
Unless you concider yourself superior somehow and all those that don't follow your Shining Path are a sub-level varient of a cartoon plane player. Yeah, I know...you do.
And now per Mars you get to be refered to As Holers.
Regards
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Originally posted by Lye-El
I only qualify as a griefer if you are one also. I was there in Ki-84s and Corsairs.
Unless you concider yourself superior somehow and all those that don't follow your Shining Path are a sub-level varient of a cartoon plane player. Yeah, I know...you do.
And now per Mars you get to be refered to As Holers.
Regards
cleary you don't know corky at all.
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Semper in Excretio, Solumn Profundum Variat
eeeekkkk ! detch01 it's disgusting :D
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Proof is in the pudding.....
Corky is a well known AH Pilot with Honor and Class
You are.. ummm.. what's your name again??
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Originally posted by hitech
Never saw a design for the map.
Acctualy I didn't ever get a chance to see this map in any way until it was already being tested in the backup arena.
The not getting to see it is entirerly my fault, and is corrected for future terrains.
Some one please dig up my comments about the map right after it was released, and see if my concerns at that time were well founded?
HiTech
You did say ...
Originally posted by hitech
cav, if the donut map were to leave, it is because it creates sutch a rift between the different type of players.
In your comming in here saying the sky is falling, you will be exasterbating that issue, hence if anything you would be acctualy promoting the posible demise of the donut map.
Finaly Skuzzy does not make the dissions of what maps we use and do not use. There for skuzzy was not going to boot it. Nor would he have said he would be.
HiTech
and in the same thread ...
Originally posted by hitech
Some what true but My view point is now.
Give the customer what he wants, not what he asked for.
HiTech
So you made the right decision ... you kept donut and now you have taken steps to prevent the griefing of FT ... WTFG !!!
You gave the customer what he wants.
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Originally posted by straffo
Semper in Excretio, Solumn Profundum Variat
eeeekkkk ! detch01 it's disgusting :D
LOL it is - but it's also true.
asw
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Btw as I've seen tonight this map doesn't solve the hording phenomenon it even accentuate it !
All I've seen was :
-3 hordes on each country (obviously not facing each other as it would have been dangerous for the horde-warrior).
-an hamster wheel in the middle.
Fortunatly Cerberos,Wilbus,Apar and Hajo where having fun in one part of the map,I killed , got killed and it was fun it remembered me how this game was played before the AW invasion.
Salute to Cerberos,Wilbus,Apar,Hajo I had not such a fun since a long.
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cav, if the donut map were to leave, it is because it creates sutch a rift between the different type of players.
I could be missing something but......the only rift I see being caused is by those who claim their countries *resources* are being wasted at FT. Those people are angry that others arent helping them to *win the war*.
You just dont see the FT folks screaming for the Strat folks to come to FT to help.
Those observations are from the game, not this BBS where discussions can get rather heated.
HiTech I hope you never take the Donut map away from us. Many of us love donut map and look forward to it in the rotation far more than any other map.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
I only qualify as a griefer if you are one also. I was there in Ki-84s and Corsairs.
Unless you concider yourself superior somehow and all those that don't follow your Shining Path are a sub-level varient of a cartoon plane player. Yeah, I know...you do.
And now per Mars you get to be refered to As Holers.
Regards
Having known Dan/Slack/+Tiff/Corky/Guppy35 for nearly 8 years now, at least, I can say you could not possibly be more wrong if you had gone out and made every effort. The guy is one of the few true gentlemen of the game and of the community. And he always has been. I count myself VERY lucky to call him friend. He's the LAST person I can think of who would be a griefer.
With regards to the subject at hand, there's no doubt at all who the griefers are in this situation. Anyone who would be so thoughtless as to capture the FT area of the donut map is without a doubt a griefer.
I play the game both ways, I play the base capture side as well as the furball side. What truly pisses me off is for people (and there are some here in this thread, and they know exactly who they are) to DEMAND that I go and do what THEY want to do with MY time, and those people who would intentionally try to prevent others from playing their side of the game by doing something so thoughtless and stupid as bombing, vulching, or capturing bases in a small area that contains 3 bases of absolutely no real strategic value.
To go and either bomb, vulch, or capture those three bases at FT because the people there won't do what you want only shows ignorance and arrogance.
As a Rook myself, I'm saddened that some Rooks did something like that, but knowing some of the Rooks and how upset they get because this map comes around and some of us like to spend OUR TIME at FT, it does not surprise me at all. I will say there are Knights and Bishops that would do it if they had the chance. I hope none of my friends were involved.
I'll say this, I'll be the first to say that if/when I do get time to come back, if the same thing happens again, I'll be among the very first to help organize as many furballers, or "a"holers, as possible to conduct retaliation raids.
Like I said, I play both as a base taker and as a furballer. I'll be damned if I'll tamely submit while some griefer decides to force me to play the game he/they want.
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from wat i hear the FT was reset. When the TT at 25k is taken it isn't reset. On that map there is almost no other GVing. That means that a portion of the AH comunity is being left out for the 6-2 next days. Is there some way that we could get resets if TT is taken.
I'm not good with map names but there is a small map with a land mass in the middle. If i'm correct each team has a large base and a vbase that spawns to a town in the middle. On this map could we have ord disabled at the large airbases. I get tired of being bombed with 300ft lancs. Even if we can shoot them down they come right back because of all the kills to be had.
Can u disable ord at those base and possibly troops. TY
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Straffo.......you and Wilbuz had me in tears I was laughing so hard. Then...I read on text chk6 from cerberos. LOL It was a great time.
Gents...if you want proof of griefers here is some that will be backed up by Wilbuz.
Wilbus, Cerberos and I were on at the same time. We asked where each other was and we decided to find a Bish and knit base close so that we could fight. Now mind you the decision on which bases we were going to up from were on channel 200. The bases were 199 Knit and 36 Bish. After a few minutes of having great fights Lancasters show up to hit the Fhs at Bish A36 field. Wilbuz and I both over 200 berated this person for spoiling a fun time away from anyone else on the map. Apar logged on then it became a two on two...then Straffo showed and JEBUS for the knits. Now we have a great 3 0n 3 battle......until.......until ...on this isolated part of the map....someone decided we were having to much fun. All of us logged in disgust. A36 fhs were down and the field was vulched. Party over.
I don't want to dictate how the game should be played. Not my style. Everyone pays their 15 dollars to play and should use the game as they see fit. Want to horde...do so. Want to capture bases hell go ahead your money. Consideration? Priceless.....and very rare.
Consideration....example..... you've a flat tire on your automobile, you're not upset because people pass by and don't offer help. You don't expect any. You know they've got important things to do. Besides...you can change the tire easily. Then...from nowhere someone stops to offer help. Not asked for, they just offered their help. Consideration.
I guess this sometimes is a me first community? All styles of play are available. Play as you like....but consideration for others in the game would be nice also.
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I DID like Kweassa's idea about an FT with just early war planes :aok
Also--the maps with the big gv fights in middle consume a similar % of each countrys' peeps, it's just that there is no dar-bar to advertise it--and the same azzwipes come in and capture all the bases to try and force the 'non-contributors' to come down and help them battle buildings. As does Virgil, I do the strat thing some days, dogfight in jug other days-- and if some 14 year old puke tries to FORCE me to help him battle buildings by taking away my fun--I'll log or join other side for remainder of evening.
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I'm not good with map names but there is a small map with a land mass in the middle. If i'm correct each team has a large base and a vbase that spawns to a town in the middle. On this map could we have ord disabled at the large airbases. I get tired of being bombed with 300ft lancs. Even if we can shoot them down they come right back because of all the kills to be had.
Slayr
The map you are talking about is D'Isles.
The problem at D'Isles is that all the airbases that fringe your TT area are tactically important and very much so. To do as you ask is in fact taking important flexibility from a very large player group and would be intolerable. The situation you have described is one of the reasons Donut was designed like it is.
The Hole in the Donut is totally different. There is absolutely no tactical advantage in capturing or operating from the bases there in any normal circumstance, so disabling troop carriers inconveniences no player with what I would perceive as an ordinary interest in the game.
The other map that features a Tank Town is similarly handicapped. The designer made the vbases there tactically important by allowing gvs to spawn out. This means to a strat player they represent a threat or opportunity depending upon circumstances. Simply removing the outward spawns would render its TT completely harmless and it would be gladly ignored by the regular Strat players.
The TT on D'Isles was an addition as it was upgraded to AH2 standard. It was an add-in attraction or bonus that can't be isolated without a major reworking. I could design a map that would cater to TT and FT afficionados as well as strat players but believe me that won't happen in any hurry. The whole experience is sooooooooooo negative but I won't bore you with that.
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Ummm Dantoo please look at my map in the "It's been a bit but I'm back at it"
I've tried to make it all fit togeather let me know what you think. And anyone else... I should have included (New map) in the title :)
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Originally posted by Donzo
Is this new?
Can't they still be captured from the outside?
uhoh.......
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I could design a map that would cater to TT and FT afficionados as well as strat players but believe me that won't happen in any hurry. The whole experience is sooooooooooo negative but I won't bore you with that.
That is soooo true.
Every new map that I have seen come out ... the developer(s) take so much un-called for watermelon from inconsiderate people berating their map design.
I can bet the ranch that this type of behaviour has stopped many who thought about making a map ... and as Dantoo has said ... those who have made maps will never make another one.
Making a map is no small task considering the tools that one has to work with.
Cudos to Flayed for bringing his map to the BBS to "ask" what could/should be done to make the map fun for everyone. Maybe he will move forward with his design ... if he is treated with respect and gratitude for making the effort.
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dantoo... I actualy understood what you said there about the difference between TT and FT and why!
I say this because, other than Fester... I have never understood what the map makers were trying to do.
I never understood what kind of gameplay or gameplay balance they were trying to achieve. I would love to talk to you about this someday.
I realize that the way strat works.... if it changes in some way... it makes any map design work completely differently but... we haven't had anything new in years so far as "strat".
I am not being sarcastic when I ask why the mapmakers go to such lengths to make it so that it is difficult for large groups to fight each other... why they largest distance allowed between fields? It seem that it a guarentee of really bad gameplay for all but those who would win bases by huge hordes or by "sneak" neither of which is much fun for anyone except possibly them. Why have maps where it is so easy for 500 fighter planes to all hide from each other?
Is it "historical"? I realize that the normal fighter pilot only every spent a couple of hours real time, or none... every actualy fighting but.. This is a game... it is supposed to skip to the good parts I thought.
I would be interested in talking to you in private if you prefered.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Yup we sure had some great fights. Balor was a late arrival to the knit team aswell so we were, in the end, 4 vs 3 dedicated people who wanted to fight. Unfortunatly some Knit idiots decided we did indeed have to much fun, and of course, decided it would be best to low level bomb the entire bish field.
Thanks...
Hajo, Apar, Straffo on the Bish side aswell as Cerberos, Balor and Jebus on our knit side. We'll have to do it again some time soon :)
As far as my an Straffo's discussion goes though... that yellow bastige owes me a kill
And to add to the discussion some, this is probarly the worst map IMO.
I've always been a dedicated fighter jock in AH, that is what I enjoy flying. I enjoy the fights where skill is a part. In FT, there isn't all that much skill needed. Take off, cherry pick a few low cons and then, eventually, get cherry picked your self. The hamster wheel keeps turning and the hordes I guess... are satisfied.
Unfortunatly those of us who have been here since the early days may not agree with this gameplay but it is the way it has turned. More to the "Quake" style rather then "Aces" style as it started out as.
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lazs really happy to chat to you about it anytime. Give me a call when you see me on.
Willy FT is only for those who actually want to go there. If you don't want to be the "Ace in the Hole" then that's cool. The map caters as best as it can for most styles of play. That was it's design purpose. You are still finding other fights on this map and you always will. I saw you landing 5-6 kills a few times tonight. You're too good to be jumping in there anyway :)
What no map will ever do is be everything to every person. That is why a variety of maps is required. This is just a single map in a series. The reason it is so controversial is that it is the first to fence of an official furball that never ends and that furball, as far as strat goes, is totally pointless. It is not pointless however to the fine folk that get in there and shoot the livin' crappo out of one another. They are having fun their way. Lots of fun, I think, judging by the temper of the posts on this board. Good on them. I have my fun other places on the map.
I will say one thing about this map and the HOle. It gave me the biggest laugh I have ever had in AH. I watched a guy spawn a tiger, drive it out of the vh, turn and charge straight over the 5000ft cliff down into the water! Lord help us!
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dantoo.. a few of the things you say are a tad disconcerting like "I'm not really a furballer" and telling wilbus that he really is "too good to go there".
Not sure how you meant that.. you do seem to realize at least that it is fun for some and... in all fairness... you are the one who provided the opportunity.
In your opinion is the whorde and the sneak a legitimate gameplay feature that is worth preserving? in other words... do you feel you have to have a lot of far apart fields so that there is no real chance of furball or even fights happening there and spoiling the whorde or sneak?
It just seems to me that closer fields offer the most choice for everyone?
Addmitedly.. I am looking at it from the viewpoint of someone who rarely is on more than 2 hours at a time in a 24 hr period.... I couldn't care less about the fields except as a place to fight... unlike wilbus... I see the field capture thing as the hamster wheel... I can come back the next night and often.... the fields are back where they were 24 hours ago or... at least close enough that there is no real difference...
I have probly seen 3 resets in the entire time I have been on AH2 and they were pretty anticlimatic... I had no real interest in them or even.. who won it... I certainly don't need the 25 perk points that equal about 10 minutes of normal furballing for me... I don't use em in any case enough to care.... I have 25,000 fighter perks... they are petty worthless to me. especialy in an arena where the best planes are 10 times better than the worst allready without any perks involved.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Willy did fly into FT...picking in Ki84 as usual :p
Just for people who tend to categorize players...I'm in dantoo's squad and we play strat (milkrun lol) with the squad and others most of the time. We use all planes, vehicules and weapons of the game to capture the "best" fields around to win the war. I don't care about the 25 perks, wich represents a landed hurricane ride, but some players need a goal, and winning the war isn't the main AH goal ?
But when US players are on (300+), I switch mask and turn into the evil furballer ! cause strat is useless against the horde (especially when you see the flood on channel2), and I better enjoy a good fight all cannons bazin, or I join ghi's mission If I feel like bomb the crapaud out of thing !!!
My point is that you can be a strat player, furballer, gv battle geek at times, so an arena where you can have all that things packed in is the best !!! That was Dantoo's ambition I think, but it looks like players just can't let other players play how they want. I'm one of them, I caught myself yelling at some player who wanted to capture v bases, saying "v bases on this map are useless !!" but a vbase still counts in the field totals, so do FT bases.
Maybe HT can put FT fields out of the totals in final victory ?
(PS : KOTH is a blast)
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Well yes I do spend some time in FT (or PT as I call it now, as in Pickertown). It does give me some quick plessure from time to time, but it doesn't last for very long.
PT is good for some quick action I agree on that, but the problem I have with it is that more often then not there are too many people there and too few willing to fight in any other place of the map.
However, as has been stated, it is only one of the maps in rotation.
Personally I much prefeer the small old maps. Why? Cause they give good, concentrated action, large or even massive furballs with less pickin then in PT. Of course pickin is very common in all furballs, that is part of the furballs and that is part of what makes it fun. I guess one problem I have with PT is that the fields are all 5k.
PT is good for one thing though, perk scorewhoring. Just passed 10k today thanks to the lil MC.205. 6 sorties 300 perks
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Originally posted by Noir
But when US players are on (300+), I switch mask and turn into the evil furballer ! cause strat is useless against the horde (especially when you see the flood on channel2), and I better enjoy a good fight all cannons bazin, or I join ghi's mission If I feel like bomb the crapaud out of thing !!!
Freudian slip ?
Droping frogs on your enemies , that's weird !
PS: I'm realy yellow Wilbuz tonight ... to much irish coffee ... I lowered with success my kill ratio and died stupidly countless of time .. before my stomach deciced to get ride of the alcool I've put inside ...
Now I feel ... dead ?
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LOL Straffo!
Irish Coffee is good that's for sure but might wanna take it a bit easy with it ;)
Hope you feel better soon :)
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lazs - Willy and I are old friends, gentle dig at his gripe, nothing in it. Interesting to see the back of this thread has a heap of guys posting here that I have great respect for. That is the only reason I am posting in it myself just by the way.
My comment that I'm not a furballer is an accurate self description. I'm not. I find furballs completely mind numbing. I can't maintain interest beyond about a minute. Finding myself in one, I usually either leave or fly straight level and slow so somebody can have the fun of shooting me. If the game was about exclusive furballing I wouldn't have bothered to stay a day. I am a special events afficianado. MA is mostly just a practice room for me, but I really enjoy the situational challenges of strat play. All that said, I know and completely understand that others have different and legitimate outlooks. Lately I am trying to walk a few yards in the other guy's shoes and furball a bit, but I find myself gritting my teeth and de-focussing with glazed over eyes just the same.
It is a way over-simplification to categorise players as strat and furballers. There are other types and lots of in-betweens. AH caters to all of them to some degree or they wouldn't be here.
The Hole in the Donut caters to whole group of guys n gals that crave high intensity, high speed, of the moment, entertainment. I do respect them but tend to sit back and watch them holding onto my bottom lip slowly stretching it down. I probably mis-categorise it as the difference between chess and checkers.
However there are others it caters to as well. It is a tremendous place to take the new guy and start to stress and demonstrate the needs of SA and positioning. All the guys that scream "I got no check 6" might profitably spend some time in there just learning survival rather than shooting with cannon and mouth.
Perhaps the people that constantly complain about the planes all the others are flying might find some value in the Hole. Here they might concentrate on looking for the weaknesses in the La7, Spit 16, C202 etc..
What I am saying is that even if you give them the tools doesn't mean they will pick them up, but if they do, there is no telling what they might create for themselves. Making a map that offers a variety of situations for a variety of player types is no easy feat. You can't make one that is perfect for everybody.
On fields being close together. There are a number of considerations. Firstly, yes you are right, HTC have a preferred distance between fields. I might presume that this was derived from long experience. Fester was the first to push that boundary and he made some folks happy by doing so. I can tell you though that there is a fair cadre that are frustrated by fields being so close. In the strat world it means you have to have numbers to influence a section of map where fields are close together. If grossly uneven numbers are required to effect any result then there is little happiness on any side.
By numbers I wish to qualify that I don't mean a local and temporal superiority gained through teamwork. I mean just having a large advantage in side numbers on the server for an hour or more. It's not a great deal of fun for any side when one country has a huge numbers advantage. It follows that if you need such to influence strat progress on a map it isn't a fun map.
The dynamics of the MA game change constantly as player numbers and quality change with the minutes. Trying to design a map for low numbers, high numbers and grossly unbalanced numbers is a challenge. Trying to cater for as many player preferences on top of that is quite a job of work.
Rgds.
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Dantoo...
very well stated post and I understand exactly what you're saying. I enjoy the fighter town aspect of the doughnut map A LOT!! because as I've said in an earlier post it gives me the option of logging on for 30 minutes and flying against people who want an air war but I also enjoy the option of base capture.
My thoughts are to see if there is a logical and reasonable way to modify existing maps to include FT and TT to give the members this option.
I'm not against the strat rats in any way, shape, or form. Again, as I've stated previously, if I 'know' I've got 2 to 4 hours to play for whatever reason I'd probably be interested in joining a mission in the MA.
To me its all about options available when you log on.
Am I going to take my $16.02 and go home if this isn't heartened to? Nope.. I'm having fun nonetheless but I've thoroughly enjoyed the last few days having the option to find a quick air battle no matter how many times I've gotten capped or joining a mission if I have the time.
Nonetheless I do believe my $$ are well spent and will not gripe publicly if I find something to my distaste. That's what PM's are made for IMHO.
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Just to clearify, I hate FT :)
But I love furballs. Flying fighters is what I play AH for.
I've gone through every single aspect of AH over the years part from dedicated long time Buff pilot.
I've done field capturing, strat porking, train porking, porking , furballing etc.
I've come to figure out (quite a few years ago actually) that I much prefer to more reaslistic way of flying, I love flying to live, fly to land.
Furballing endlessly is fun, but not forever, not for more then an hour or so and I can understand the people who don't fly much enjoy the FT alot.
It is not for me though even though I have spent quite some time there these past days as I can not find action anywhere else.
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wilbus.. perhaps if you had gotten into the spirit of FT and not been a picker in a ki84 yourself you would have seen a different aspect of it? You could fly a good early war plane down low and see how that worked. I did ok and had a blast.
dantoo... I am sorry but your last post left me cold. What I see is someone who thinks the things I do are mind numbingly boring while I end up not even blinking for a hour....
At the same time... I see what you like to be doing to be as much fun as a board game or..... high tea... or... a nice chat with the book club... climbing and listening to the drone of AH engines while doing nothing for an hour drives me crazy... I would rather even do the dishes.
You claim the difference is between chess and checkers..... I think the strat is too simplistic to be even considered checkers but... if we use that analodgy... I would say it is more like checkers and checkers where you are the only player.. in the "strat" game... the other player is in another room playing checkers with himself... you both have buddies cheering you on tho and even helping you move.... just no opponent.
Your experiance with festers map is frustration but... that is the oppossite of the chatter I see and hear on 200 and here... it would seem that festers envelope pushing is very popular with just about everyone else but the people you know. Look at the action..
That is the real test... look at the people and where they go... the fights on festers concentrate on the close fields... people go to the fights.... when a good fight is found it goes for hours with no one trying to take anything... until someone spoils it by taking out the FH..
And that is the rub...it is very hard to find another such fight on most maps after that one is spoiled.
I really do believe that most people only get on for an hour or two at a time and I just don't see how a week long strat to win the war helps anyone. I believe that most people came here to have air combat not play some kind of board game with really weak goals and tools.
The cheapest board game has better strat so....
Oh... I get told all the time... "make a map if you think you can do better"... Truth is... I couldn't... I can barely open my email... I also have too many hobies as it is.. But... this is the best I can do... give input. Those that think I am wrong have only to look at festers map... it is far and away the most popular with the least grumbling.
If I could... I would take the pizza (or some of the others) and move the fields to the 3/4 distance for the most part and I bet they would all be just as popular as Festers.
your ft is a great and unique idea... I had suggested something allmost exactly the same years ago but... my idea would only differ in that I would make it an "early war only area".
I love your FT but..... I like Festers map better even than that.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Festers map is exelent, as are some others. It is just the FT map I don't like.
As far as me pickin in a Ki84 in the FT I am not sure what you base it upon. I have flown maybe 4 sorties in the FT in the Ki84.
The rest have been in PJ's, 205's (quite a few in the 205) and some other early planes. Hell, I even took up a 202 in the FT the other day, flew 4 sorties and landed all (with kills) but even that didn't bring me much fun.
No matter if you are a picker or a pick-e you will end up both pickin and being picked there, there are no alternatives, that is the way it has been designed.
I understand why people like it, I just don't like it myself nor will I learn to like.
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Originally posted by lazs2
wilbus.. perhaps if you had gotten into the spirit of FT and not been a picker in a ki84 yourself you would have seen a different aspect of it? You could fly a good early war plane down low and see how that worked. I did ok and had a blast.
Uhm... that was an interesting lil attack...
I am not interested in getting into the spirit of the FT, I've been here too long, been there, done that sort of thing. I leave it to those who haven't passed that state yet. I get most fun out of flying "realistic" which I why I wait for CT to be relased. The MA is nothing but a training arena for me in prepartion for much more enjoyable scenarios, and hopefully the CT.
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Originally posted by lazs2
You could fly a good early war plane down low and see how that worked.
Stopped in there for a bit yesterday during the daytime. Took Lazs' advice, went down low in an early war plane (A6M2 - hey, I'm a dweeb, OK?). I did not see a lot of other early war planes there. At least 80% of the planes I saw were Spits, Mark9 or later.
Having said that, it's true that it was a lot of fun.
- oldman
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lazs I am sure you didn't understand a thing that I wrote. This is why this medium is as next to useless for communication. I am out of this one.
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90% of all kills in furballs are picks -- rarely are you killing a target that was spending his E manuevering against you, whether the pick takes place at 400ias or 100ias is irrelevant.
There is no better SA workout than FT especially if you're coming back to the game and want to shake the rust of as quickly as possible. The advice some are giving about flying early war planes is horrible. Fighting Spit16s and LA7s create a much more challenging environment because the closing speeds are so much higher and the lethality better punishes my mistakes. If everyone shows up in Wildcats it waters the whole experience down.
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wilbus... tell yourself that you are more experianced and as such.... above fighting in a furball on anything like a furball... tell yourself that you fly realisticaly if you like.
You do not. If you did you would be in the AvA and you would get maybe.... 200 kills in 5 years like the best aces of WWII.... you would allways fly in formation with a wingman and allways, allmost allways, climb to 20,000 ft.
you don't fly realisticaly.... you pick and chose the realistic elemnts that suit the way you want to fly and the elements that best excuse you being able to have fast, good climbingt planes so that you can cherry pick... that is fine but.... at least admit it.
We all pick the parts of realism that we like and go with that. for me the only "realistic" parts that interest me is flight model and gunnery... I have allways wanted to see how the old WWII planes would have performed aginst each other.
Dantoo... you are right of course. I don't think we would do that well in an email either. If you would like tho...you can email me your phone number and I will call you some time at your convienience.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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hornet... I have no idea what you are talking about.. the early war planes are the best experiance... Have you tried em in there?
You have to come in low and head for a clump of planes. you can easily dodge at least one or two of the timid la7 or spit 16 guys who then set themselves up to be chased down or picked by like minded timid guys.
I believe that the hurri, Fm2,109e/f, and hellcat do well down low as does the spit 5 and 8/9 I probly kill 2 or three la7's for every one that finaly gets that lucky head on shot or makes it's 3rd pass at me while I am engaged with 3 other cons.
The late war planes don't strain anything.... you either dive in and run away or you spend too much e and another late war plane that is higher e chases you down and kills you.
You are of course welcome to dive in and out of the furball in a late war plane or... straff the runway... but why bother? you can do the exact same thing in the MA.
I guess if you are really worried about your score or stats then the FT is something different tho.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
You claim the difference is between chess and checkers..... I think the strat is too simplistic to be even considered checkers but... if we use that analodgy... I would say it is more like checkers and checkers where you are the only player.. in the "strat" game... the other player is in another room playing checkers with himself... you both have buddies cheering you on tho and even helping you move.... just no opponent.
Lazs, if by "strat" game you are talking purely the bombing of cities, training facilities, HQ etc. from 30K feet, I can see your point. It would be like Golf -- only really playing against yourself, the other guy can do little to affect you.
But the base-capture aspect is more than that. There are opponents. They greatly affect your success. And I think the checkers and chess analogy is not completely off. In checkers you win by jumping all your opponent's pieces, i.e. kill him off is the only goal. Not a bad comparison to furballing for the sake of the fight. In chess you have a goal of capturing the king. You do not have to destroy all of your opponent's pieces to do so, and even a numerically weak player can pull off a win if the strategy is correct. Not a bad analogy to the base capture game where it can be anything from a horde capture overwhelming the base, to 3 guys tying up the 12 enemy cons while the 4th sneaks an M-3 into the town. On the other side, how many hordes have been held up for hours because someone like Ghi takes advantage of their lack of coordination and shoots down the C-47 within sight of the base over and over and over and over again?
I know base captures and base defenses are not your style or to your liking, but it is far from the tedium you make it out to be. It just depends on what you are after from the game.
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I find I'm with wilbus here. I make an attempt to land every plane I up unless it's almost an impossibility that I would make it back to base then I fight it out and die. I don't do this for score or anything but it feels wrong to me to up a plane with no intention what so ever of trying to make it back alive. If I wanted to do that type of thing I would hook up the lan cable with my family and play Unreal 2004 for a bit.
Fighter or pick town what ever people want to call it is fun for a bit but I don't like staying there for more than an hour or so, it's just the same over and over and over. At least outside of it there is a chance that you may come across a different situation, it may take time but they do happen.
So far though in FT one of the best and worst fealings I've had was when I was flying a Spit-1 down low. It started out as a fairly even fight lots of green and red, I had even managed to get a kill with the BB's and then POOF NO MORE GREEN AT ALL!!!!! :eek:
The good feeling was that I had lasted longer than most other countrymen in that mess with a, well less then uber plane but at the same time seeing 25 red icons all around you and 10 of them on your 6 well thats the not good feeling lol.
I managed to make about 4 or 5 over shoot me but as one of the rebel pilots in one of the original star wars movies said "There's to many of them!!"
Oh and well said e25280 thats also how I see it.
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You're full of it lazs and quite obviously have no idea of what you are talking about.
AvA is emtpy pretty much every time I go online so it is no option. My hopes are for CT.
I fly more then fast planes only, sorry if you can't accept my way of flying or enjoying AH, it's quite obviously not the same as yours but don't tell me I am lying, it only makes you look even more foolish.
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wilbus... you said you did one thing... "flew realisticaly" and then.... it turns out that you do no such thing.
or at least... you are very selective as to what type of realism you like. It is every bit as realistic for a guy to have a low alt turn fight with one or more opponents as it is for a lone hunter to cherry pick opponents.... both happened.
You have no exclusive claim on realistic behavior either.... in fact... most fighter pilots didn't think about the odds that much... they figured that they would win regardless... they did what we/you would call stupid moves just as often as they did sneak moves in fast planes.... they did stuff like climb up to their enemy while in plain sight.
Your form of realism (fly to survive) was no more common than pilots who flew with abandon. To fly with survival as the goal..... in a game fer crisakes.... is pretty funny.
BTW... what is your handle in the game?
e23576964 I am sorry but... there really is only a couple of ways to capture fields... sneak or whorde. To compare what the strat girls do here to chess is an insult to anyone who has ever played chess.
The only legit comparisson is that it can be slow and tedious. In a furball... you have to think much more quickly and you have to judge the e states of multiple enemies while knowing yours along with the performance parameters of all the planes involved.
Why bother to have so many planes in the game if you were only going to do strat? You would only need to know basic things about each and even less about how they compared.
It just seems laughable that the strat girls and timid B&Z types all strive so hard to convince themselves and others that they are doing something that takes skill and some kind of machiavelian ability....
Time has shown that all these people eventually abandon those pursuits because... they are boring.
The fight is the thing.... everything else is an excuse to get into a fight.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Well one can't very well fly realisticly in the MA. Too bad you don't know what I mean about it as you seem to have a need to "mark" words.
Do I love fights where I am outnumberd? Yup I do, love em to a certain degree. What I don't like is the ever upping and dying then upping and dying in the FT.
I don't like the FT although I have flown in it now since the map came in rotation. I don't like it, no matter what plane I fly... infact, I hate the damn thing. It takes away those things I consider fun about AH, don't ask me why I even fly AH while it is in rotation as that is a question I can not answer.
You quite obviously know nothing about my way of fighting even though you try to talk as if you did, not sure why I even bother with this kind of discussion, it's a waste of time. You go fly your way, I will fly my way and hopefully we will both get some fun out of it.
I'm out of this discussion.
Ps. My ingame ID is Wilbuz.
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Originally posted by lazs2
It just seems laughable that the strat girls and timid B&Z types all strive so hard to convince themselves and others that they are doing something that takes skill and some kind of machiavelian ability....
If I'm a girl you're a homo.
fair enought ?
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My opinion about LTARs leveled up :aok
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To be honest, as mach as I love fighting, and I actually prefer to be outnumbered and lower than the bad guys, I don't like FT anymore. I did when it came out cause it was easy to find a fight. Now, everysingle time I get into a fight in the FT, it ends with a cherry pick. Either the guy I am fighting gets picked, or I am. Maybe I am too stupid to keep trak of 20 other planes while fighting 1 or 2 guys, but even if was able to keep trak of them, you cannot tell me you could dodge all of them.
Then again, I can stay at the edge of the mess and kill a few after a turn or two, but that is not fighting. Thats the same as cherry picking. Only its not obvius because your victim was able to make a turn or two.
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Originally posted by lazs2
my idea would only differ in that I would make it an "early war only area".
With the C-47 disabled one can infer that the late war birds can be disabled easy enough on a per field basis also. I would like to see this happen. I think it would encourage more "dogfighting" instead just getting a fast bird, hold the trigger down, and dive in type environment.
Of course it would then be as popular as the A vs. A. because if it required a modicum of ACM a lot less people would be there as the playing field would be more level.
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Originally posted by lazs2
hornet... I have no idea what you are talking about.. the early war planes are the best experiance... Have you tried em in there?
You have to come in low and head for a clump of planes. you can easily dodge at least one or two of the timid la7 or spit 16 guys who then set themselves up to be chased down or picked by like minded timid guys.
I believe that the hurri, Fm2,109e/f, and hellcat do well down low as does the spit 5 and 8/9 I probly kill 2 or three la7's for every one that finaly gets that lucky head on shot or makes it's 3rd pass at me while I am engaged with 3 other cons.
The late war planes don't strain anything.... you either dive in and run away or you spend too much e and another late war plane that is higher e chases you down and kills you.
You are of course welcome to dive in and out of the furball in a late war plane or... straff the runway... but why bother? you can do the exact same thing in the MA.
I guess if you are really worried about your score or stats then the FT is something different tho.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
If you want challenging fights it is better to encourage your enemies to fly the best planes available. Yourself upping in a slow early war plane makes sense - a high skilled thrillseeker would desire such a constraint - but if your opponent also comes at you in a similar early plane type...that waters down the challenge you face to win, as that airplane cannot kill you as easily as a Spit16 or Niki can.
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Originally posted by lazs2
e23576964 I am sorry but... there really is only a couple of ways to capture fields... sneak or whorde. To compare what the strat girls do here to chess is an insult to anyone who has ever played chess.
As you so often do, ignore the clearly spelled out point and throw an insult instead. I expected no less.
The only legit comparisson is that it can be slow and tedious. In a furball... you have to think much more quickly and you have to judge the e states of multiple enemies while knowing yours along with the performance parameters of all the planes involved.
I disagree with your assessment. If you are in a fast and furious furball, you are not thinking, but rather acting and reacting. If you stop to "think", you get picked. I'm sure it took you a long time to get there, but you instinctively know what to do and just do it without thinking. Good for you. But for me, simply acting and reacting is not my kind of entertainment. The "rush" wears off for me after a while.
When planning / executing a base capture, you don't have any idea what you might or might not run into. The uncertainty builds suspense/tension. Maybe no one ups to defend, in which case the capture is routine and boring. Maybe another squad ups to defend, and it turns into a 45 minute back-and-forth fight. When we play base defense, will we outlast the attack, or will we get overwhelmed? We don't know. That is what is fun to me. In Fighter town, you know what you are going to get - lots of planes to shoot at and who will shoot at you. Again, fun as an occasional diversion for me, but not enough to keep my interest forever.
Why bother to have so many planes in the game if you were only going to do strat? You would only need to know basic things about each and even less about how they compared.
You truly show your ignorance here regarding plane use in the world beyond the furball. No need to elaborate. Besides, if this was truly your goal, you would chose a plane that does nothing particularly well so you could put that knowledge to the test. Instead you usually fly the plane with a tighter turn radius than the majority of the planes you find in FT, then stay low and slow inviting others into a style of fighting in which you have the advantage. Pot meet kettle.
It just seems laughable that the strat girls and timid B&Z types all strive so hard to convince themselves and others that they are doing something that takes skill and some kind of machiavelian ability.....
Continuing with the show of ignorance. There are plenty of good fights and good fighters in the "wider world". True, some aren't willing to fight and run, but then, those usually aren't playing the base-capture game. They're vulching and score-whoring, which is different. And how would the "timid B&Zrs" differ from the cherry pickers found in the furball? What is the "Machiavellian" skill required to furball at all? Another pot meets kettle moment.
The one skill that is required for the base capture game is the ability to work with others. Usually this means being civil toward them - something you show here on the BBs that you are not interested in. In the furball you are free to do whatever you want regardless as there is no goal that requires cooperation to achieve. Fine for some, others prefer interaction beyond shooting at targets. It isn't an "earth shaking" ability, but one you choose to ignore. Again, you limit yourself while accusing others of the same.
Time has shown that all these people eventually abandon those pursuits because... they are boring.
Your opinion, many have a different one -- something for some reason you are unable to accept.
The fight is the thing.... everything else is an excuse to get into a fight.
But you don't even need the excuse, which to me is one-dimensional thinking. You enjoy the "action flick" of the furball, I prefer the "suspense thriller" of the base capture. You enjoy the world against yourself, I enjoy the cooperation with others toward a common goal. To each his own -- room for all.:aok Again, why you can't accept that is beyond comprehension.
But, I don't even expect you to read this, let alone expect you appreciate there are opinions other than your own, so this is my last post in this thread. I doubt I could make any of this any clearer, so no point in trying.
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straffo...if you pretend to be a girl and I buy it... I probly am a homo at that point.
e2569886557... No, you are missing the point... even while you are part of it. I have no interest in the field capture... what you think is gripping, suspense filled drama of "who will give out first" is nothing more than the "defenders" being guys looking for a fight.
so long as the fight stays decent... the fh's stay up and the field is not totaly capped.... I will take off and kill the attackers. When it get's boring, I leave and go to another field and let you have it.
It is just as bad when I go to what looks like a good fight... I don't feel the tension you feel.... just bored... when I get there after a long boring flight... I find that the big red bar is gone... nothing there but green planes and ded FH's and... some flaks.. If a plane comes in... it takes 5 or 6 of these machievelian "attackers" to mob him and kill him after taking 10 times longer than it should.
hornet... the best planes in the FT are anti ft... they simply do what they do in the rest of the MA.... It is easy to defeat one but difficult to dodge too many of em... they will without fail clump up and come at you Head on in a group all firing cannon or... wait till you or anyone is tied up to take a sissy little kick and run.
There is safety in numbers tho.. the fight stratifies... the furball is low with a layer of pickers.. the pickers may or may not be able to set up a shot in the swirling mass but.. if he tries to use any acm... tries to turn... his late war monster becomes a coffin for the other pickers waiting... since he is much easier to pick for them than someone who can dodge.
I think it would be more fun if the FT were early war only... the rest of the arena is allready nothing but late war... and why not? lots of areas in the war had less than the latest and greatest planes.
lazs
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Originally posted by hitech
Nope hasn't changed in the least, the exat same stuff was happening in AW when I started playing over 16 years ago.
HiTech
Amen your spelling impairedness. Same ole crap just different idiots doing it.