Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on September 07, 2006, 08:27:28 PM
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I don't fly that often anymore, but when I do, I expect my joystick to be a reliable link to Aces High. If there is one thing that cannot be tolerated, it is betrayal by that vital transmitter of piloting intentions.
Having used several joysticks over the years, I've always preferred the least complicated but reasonably capable twisty, the most recent since January 2004 being a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
Its ergonomics were the most comfortable ever. Felt just right. But there was one teeny problem ... it rarely finished a session without incessant tweaking. From the beginning its rudder was the weakest feature ... never wanting to give full range on the right rudder. In spite of frequent checking and fine tuning in Windows and Aces High control settings, the stick often did not do what was expected of it.
Finally the sensitivity and general control ranges remained elusive ... no matter how often and how carefully they were adjusted, controls froze at crucial points with the inevitable pranging in and easy scores for unwitting opponents who just happened to be flying in the general area.
Ultimately I pondered the full qualifications of the joystick, reviewed its history of deception and unreliability, and judged it unfit for further human consumption. With dignity and maturity, I carefully unplugged the miscreant, calmly placed it on the floor, and stomped it into oblivion.
Who, me, childish? Mayhap. But wow, did that feel good! Finally I felt at one with the joystick, even if it was through my foot.
For years other wiser Aces Highers have maligned such joysticks and for years I had naively defended them, probably because I haven't been flying enough to fully realize their insidious character defects.
In their defense, computer game controllers possibly have more user generated stress than any other mechanical devices known to humans. It's amazing any equipment can take the torque and pressure generated by sweaty hands in mortal cyber combat.
Many joysticks of whatever brands have short lives, and many models come and go. The truly userproof joystick may not have been invented yet.
Just for grins I tried flying with a mouse and keyboard like the old days of Air Warrior -- how did we ever do that?
Now, after again reviewing Aces High pilot recommendations, I have a Saitek Evo coming next week. I am optimistic.
Admit it -- have you ever disposed of a joystick with terminal force? In reading joystick reviews, it was interesting to see in subtle terms how many times even reviewers have done that. What is more frustrating than a control that isn't controllable?
Disclaimer: My experience may or may not reflect your experience with this product, and no warranty or condemnation explicitly or implicitly may predict or reflect any experience you may have with it. This is just one experience history shared in hope of enhancing the general welfare of Aces High participants.
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Halo, I feel your frustration.
I own a Saitek Evo, but its not my cup of tea after using a full CH Setup at home (I'm at college, so the twisty stick is great for the small room). A brand new Evo is smooth and wonderful, just keep it clean so that you don't get any friction, which is what I"m having now.
While I've never purposely destroyed a stick, I have decided with some to start testing their limitations with more force. What I'd do is start yanking and turning harder than ever, until the whole thing just up and snapped.
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i used to use a saitek ST90 (budget POS). it eventually just stopped working, i guess the chip shorted out. it cost me a great fight and i was really pissed off, so naturally, i went to a cupboard, got out some hefty french bangers, or firecrackers, whatever you call them in the US lol (bangers being the only reasonable way of obtaining gunpowder in the UK without a firearms licence), and i tore em all open, emptying the powder into the join on the stick, which i had forced open. i also managed to find an old shotgun cartridge from clay shooting i guess, so i emptied the gunpowder from that into it as well. took it out into the garden, shoved it on a rock in the garden, splashed a little bit of petrol under the thing and chucked a match onto it.
the petrol burned for a bit, melted the bottom, and within a few seconds the stick blew to smithereens. it doesn't quite have the finesse of your brutal stomping, for which i have tremendous respect, but, the technical approach can often produce some immensely satisfying results when it comes to vengeance on computerised equipment :D
needless to say the explosion was great to watch, although cleaning up the bits of shattered and molten plastic was a drawback. was well worth it though :lol
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Yeah, I've killed 3 or 4. I have a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force now. It ain't CH level gear, but it ain't $300 either. And since I have not flown since very early July, I can't really justify the CH stuff anyway. Hell, as bad as I fly, I never could justify CH stuff, even at 20 hours a week.
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I've killed a few. My current stick is an X-45, and I've recently busted the rudder on the throttle while whipping a Hind or Apache around a tight corner in Gazala. I had a gunner and managed to keep the ship aloft long enough to tell him to bail, but it still left me witha broken rudder. I took it apart, and it's a tiny little piece that I'll drill into to fix it, but...
It's always just one little tiny piece, right?
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I killed my Logitech Extreme 3D a few years ago gunning for a squaddy and snap...limp stick:( Squadmates said give it some viagra but I knew it's days were done.
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I too am guilty of murder against a Logitec 3d Extreme... And have since vowed that no other logitec device may enter my house (having also had trouble with a USB headset).
I am on a full CH rig (568 combat stick, pro pedals and pro throttle). Other than buying the Logitec due to low finances I have been a CH only simmer since 1992 when I discovered CH.
My only complaint (and I hear this from others) the pro pedal drags a brake on the right pretty consistantly, it can not be calibrated out. I don't get it... But it only matters on the ground.
(if anyone knows a solution the CH Pro Pedals dragging brakes, PLEASE POST).
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Snapped the stick right off my old Logitech Wingman Warrior in '96 playing AW. Not to be deterred, I nursed my spit back to safety flying with the tiny little nub left at the huge base of that thing. The Wingman Warrior had like a 10-inch base with the joystick on the right and the throttle lever on the left. Also on the left was a large red twist knob for games like Mechwarrior 2 (which rocked). That stick had to have weighed 3 or 4 pounds!
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i fixed my first stick (microsoft something or other) with a sledge hammer. i was out $40 but i felt alot better afterwards. :D
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I've killed a few. By far, the most frustrating sticks/throttles/pedals were the Thrustmaster stuff. I had the F16 FLCS and the F22 Pro stuff...
All overpriced crap with way way way too much tweaking and cleaning and bother.
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yep the logitech is comfortable .. but, i gotta recalibrate the rudder every time i log in!
who knows how often the rudder starts flappin' on me after that and i just chalk it up to "too many beers"
but as long as i fly with it, if someone say "you suck" i can just blame the stick lol
i do tend to "hang on the rudder" so when priorities permit( some extra cash) its ch pedals for me and this twisty goes in the closet
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
but as long as i fly with it, if someone say "you suck" i can just blame the stick lol
That right there is the problem with CH.. YOU CAN'T BLAME THE STICK! Every time I die, I know it was a failure on my part. The stick always does as I tell it.
Although sometimes I make myself feel better by just blaming the squad :noid
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Originally posted by Sandman
I've killed a few. By far, the most frustrating sticks/throttles/pedals were the Thrustmaster stuff. I had the F16 FLCS and the F22 Pro stuff...
All overpriced crap with way way way too much tweaking and cleaning and bother.
I have a TM Afterburner II that I have glued back together on at least 2 occasions (Gorilla Glue: Miracle worker of the 21st century). My only issues today are: 1 very worn out hat button.
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They probably sell aftermarket switches if you want to look into that, Scrap. If it's like my squaddy, they probably sell em bulk too.
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Originally posted by Halo
Now, after again reviewing Aces High pilot recommendations, I have a Saitek Evo coming next week. I am optimistic.
The Evo is a very good joystick. I have both a standard and wireless one sitting in my closet. I would've kept using them hadn't they been replaced by my X52.
If anybody wants the wireless one, just pay shipping.
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There's a reason they're called LogiCrap.
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used to kill thrustmaster stuff every 6 months or so.
Ch is a bargin when you take into consideration how well it works and how...
It frigging doesn't break... you can break 10 hundred dollar sticks and the CH would still be working. the CH is the best bargin in a stick I have ever had.
Did I mention that there is no frustration? How much is that worth?
lazs
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Back in AW days I used Msoft P-Pro, and its roll axis pot got dirty. I spent about 2.5 hours carefully taking it apart, laying all the pieces out in order for easy re-assembly. sprayed it with cleaner, let it dry & re-assembled- no probs.
2 days later it started spiking again, but even worse. I lost a very important fight and was quite unhappy. Unplugged the unit while cursing Mr. Gates and his profit margin Then I took it outside to my concrete porch & while holding only the cord, I slammed the unit into the concrete repeatedly until the unit measerued about 3". Spent 1o minutes sweeping up the debris, proceeded down to Best Buy & bought a Saitek which lasted about 9 months but was simply placed into the garbage.
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Originally posted by Atoon
Then I took it outside to my concrete porch & while holding only the cord, I slammed the unit into the concrete repeatedly until the unit measerued about 3".
Hahah.. Thats how i do it too. on the porch and let it rock.. :rofl
Anyways, CH stuff lasts, and although i never took it to the porch, it did fly across the table and room couple times. Still works great, and i hope it last me for many years to come. And even if something brakes, its easly fixable.
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I snapped an MS Sidewinder. I forget how, probably something stupid. I fixed it with superglue, but the fix would last for only about a month. Finally bought another one and used it until I got a TM Cougar. Been using it for about 3 years now.
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Originally posted by Kurt
...if anyone knows a solution the CH Pro Pedals dragging brakes, PLEASE POST.
Kurt, I find that if you exert extra pressure on the bottom of the pedals while taxiing, either with your heels or your toes, it helps to keep the brake from dragging. It's almost like you're putting the pedals into a slightly negative position, if you get my drift.
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Originally posted by Halo
Its ergonomics were the most comfortable ever. Felt just right.
I've always felt that way too....
1/4 of me want to gut various joysticks for parts, use clay, plaster and resin and mold my own joystick handle just to see if I can do it. maybe some day after winning the lottery and I have all that free time. :lol
but on topic, no I never have... only stick that went "bad" took back to BB with the 2 year thingy, and when they were out of stock talked them into upgrading to an x45. still have / use the throttle part of it with my CH. :aok
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What Dux said about the pedals, mine do it too but it's only the right one. When playing something like MSFS it says when/which brakes are engaged and it's always the right side, maybe a better spring or something to kep it down.
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Originally posted by Mathman
I snapped an MS Sidewinder. I forget how, probably something stupid. I fixed it with superglue, but the fix would last for only about a month. Finally bought another one and used it until I got a TM Cougar. Been using it for about 3 years now.
kevor34 snapped the throttle off an X45.
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Back when AHI became AHII all the sudden I was out of the loop my computer couldn't handle AHII . So there was no way to get my fix except fly WBsII until I got a new computer. I felt like I had been banished from the US and sent live in Madagasgar.
I hadn't been in the arena for even an hour and I pulled my X45 joystick right out of the socket trying to follow a spit through a turn......... There was no blackout in the program. I just kept pulling on the stick and POP. Now I wasn't even able to play crappy ole Warbirds II.
It was probably a karma thing for flirting with IEN in the first place
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My cougar came close to being run over by a jeep.
The thing was about 3 years old but almost new in that I barely used it, started playing again, and in a month the the throttle pot went wonky.
for a 300$ stick its a POS.
so much wobble in the center its hard to calibrate, and there is no way I am spending another 300 to 600 to upgrade the POS.
thrustmaster, I won't buy another stick from them and I have owned the original one that looked like phantom stick, a F16 FLCS, an F22, and now the cougar.
CH is the way to go, even if I have to copy Laz's rubber band setup!
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Originally posted by Kurt
(if anyone knows a solution the CH Pro Pedals dragging brakes, PLEASE POST).
i adjusted the dead band, or dampener, one of them.
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I flew AW for a few years using Logitechs Wingman Warrior stick. It worked fine but when AW3 came along and they added the fightertown arena I had some problems.
On two occasions while fighting the likes of Drano, Big-T and DD among many others, was a great arena, I was left with a limp stick after having it break off at the base. When I was offered a new one for free from Logitech I accepted it, made a great target at the range.
It's been CH gear ever since.
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As a postscript I should add I got Logitech keyboards for both my computers and they've worked great for years. Again, it was the outstanding ergonomics, at least for my preferences.
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Mainly, it's the pots in Logitc joystick that are total crap. Any other product of theirs works fine.
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Received my Saitek Cyborg Evo joystick direct from Saitek, $30 including shipping. Been flying with it a couple days. Nice stick.
Took me awhile to program all the buttons from scratch, but the customization is worth it.
So ... fabulous ... to again have aircraft do exactly what I want without a load of doofus from a joystick.
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Murder? Childish? Huh? When our beloved pets are near the end of thier days, we do the humane thing, no matter how difficult, and allow them to move on sans pain.
My very first joystick was a MS Sidewinder. The stick was nothing fancy, but some pets are not fancy at all and you still grow to love em.
We had many fine times together. But then I started noticing things. Skips in the rhythm, stalls in the reaction. I knew it was getting old. Time was running out for my friend. Why is it they never last as long as we do?
One day, in the middle of a fight, the unbelievable happened. It did not return to center. It did not move at all. Locked in a death grip it just sat there. I could see it was time. And I was so close to that kill.
I did the only humane thing I could. I picked it up off the table and slammed it into the sheetrock of a wall in my home office and walked away.
A few days passed. My Wife asks when I was going to fix the wall. She never gives me much trouble about things of this nature. So, out of respect for my departed buddy. I spent a few hours in the garage.
My Wife was sitting in the living room, hearing me with a hammer in the home office, got worried. She walks in, and I look at her and report, "There, fixed."
I had made a wood frame and put it up on the wall around my departed buddy.
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lol Skuzzy :D
My MS Sidewinder is still working perfectly.
I have found them impossible to destroy. Ive had several of them so i should know.
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Originally posted by Halo
I don't fly that often anymore, but when I do, I expect my joystick to be a reliable link to Aces High. If there is one thing that cannot be tolerated, it is betrayal by that vital transmitter of piloting intentions.
Having used several joysticks over the years, I've always preferred the least complicated but reasonably capable twisty, the most recent since January 2004 being a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
Its ergonomics were the most comfortable ever. Felt just right. But there was one teeny problem ... it rarely finished a session without incessant tweaking. From the beginning its rudder was the weakest feature ... never wanting to give full range on the right rudder. In spite of frequent checking and fine tuning in Windows and Aces High control settings, the stick often did not do what was expected of it.
Finally the sensitivity and general control ranges remained elusive ... no matter how often and how carefully they were adjusted, controls froze at crucial points with the inevitable pranging in and easy scores for unwitting opponents who just happened to be flying in the general area.
Ultimately I pondered the full qualifications of the joystick, reviewed its history of deception and unreliability, and judged it unfit for further human consumption. With dignity and maturity, I carefully unplugged the miscreant, calmly placed it on the floor, and stomped it into oblivion.
Who, me, childish? Mayhap. But wow, did that feel good! Finally I felt at one with the joystick, even if it was through my foot.
For years other wiser Aces Highers have maligned such joysticks and for years I had naively defended them, probably because I haven't been flying enough to fully realize their insidious character defects.
In their defense, computer game controllers possibly have more user generated stress than any other mechanical devices known to humans. It's amazing any equipment can take the torque and pressure generated by sweaty hands in mortal cyber combat.
Many joysticks of whatever brands have short lives, and many models come and go. The truly userproof joystick may not have been invented yet.
Just for grins I tried flying with a mouse and keyboard like the old days of Air Warrior -- how did we ever do that?
Now, after again reviewing Aces High pilot recommendations, I have a Saitek Evo coming next week. I am optimistic.
Admit it -- have you ever disposed of a joystick with terminal force? In reading joystick reviews, it was interesting to see in subtle terms how many times even reviewers have done that. What is more frustrating than a control that isn't controllable?
Disclaimer: My experience may or may not reflect your experience with this product, and no warranty or condemnation explicitly or implicitly may predict or reflect any experience you may have with it. This is just one experience history shared in hope of enhancing the general welfare of Aces High participants.
I broke several in my playing days. I'd get pissed after I died a few times.
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When I evacuated for hurricane Katrina, one of my biggest worries was protecting my dog. Places don't allow dogs inside and I wasn't going to leave him outside to die of heat exhaustion. I had many of arguments with restaurant , store, and bank managers. During all this I formulated a plan. My dog looks to me for everything. I am his protection. I could NEVER leave him waiting if I wasn't returning. I made up my mind, if for some reason in the chaos if I had to leave him *I* would put him down. Just thinking about it brought me to tears, but there is no way I'd have him waiting for me if I wasn't returning.
Thank God that didn't happen and he is pestering me as I write this.
Ehem - sorry for all that. The idea of putting down pets is still raw with me.
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BTW, glad your dog is still with you, but this thread is about putting down joysticks, not animals.