Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cav58d on September 09, 2006, 06:42:59 PM
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http://www.collingsfoundation.org/tx_f-4dphantom_training.htm
WOO HOO...I wonder how much this has gotta cost
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Would be an awesome flight.
I bet its around 25-30k.
Fuel costs alone would be around $10,000/hr.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Would be an awesome flight.
I bet its around 25-30k.
Fuel costs alone would be around $10,000/hr.
At $3 a gallon, probably more like $6,000/hour. The flights will probably last around 45 minutes or so. At least thats about how long *incentive rides* lasted when I was in the AF.
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if you're buying jet-a at $3.00/gallon PLEASE let me know where this magical place is.
On another note I ran into these guys a few weeks ago. They had a B-24, B-25 and B-17. A few nice kids and one british 'lad' had an entire summer traveling in these airplanes. Wish I knew about programs like that when I had summers off!
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And what's cool is that F-4 is about 5 miles down the road from me...hehehe
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Fuel costs alone would be around $10,000/hr.
How could USAF afford this?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I bet its around 25-30k.
Russkies were (maybe still are) offering a 2 weeks trip to Moscow, 1-3 flights in Mig-29, Su-27 or even Mig-25 for 10-20 k.
Go figure.
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Originally posted by Golfer
if you're buying jet-a at $3.00/gallon PLEASE let me know where this magical place is...
Jet-A is $3.35 around here (i wish i had the need), but a lot more in your area, i think (100LL is about the same, though:huh :confused: ). I wonder what kind of deal they get buying wholesale fuel
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Hey Boroda,
Am I still invited?
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Jet A was around $4.25 at Bowman Field (Louisville, KY) in July.
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Originally posted by Golfer
if you're buying jet-a at $3.00/gallon PLEASE let me know where this magical place is.
On another note I ran into these guys a few weeks ago. They had a B-24, B-25 and B-17. A few nice kids and one british 'lad' had an entire summer traveling in these airplanes. Wish I knew about programs like that when I had summers off!
The B-17, B-25 and B-24 were at the Frontiers of flight a few months ago it was 300-500$ a ride, I didn't bother paying for a ride in those pieces of scrap metal though
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I'd imagine that given you're on allowance that it's a pretty significant investment. Surprised you would jumpseat on a chitbox 737-300 and call some pretty fair restorations scrap metal.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Fuel costs alone would be around $10,000/hr.
Why don't you learn some facts before you talk.... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Golfer
I'd imagine that given you're on allowance that it's a pretty significant investment. Surprised you would jumpseat on a chitbox 737-300 and call some pretty fair restorations scrap metal.
He is just trolling for a response.....
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Originally posted by Bodhi
He is just trolling for a response.....
He hooked a fair sized largemouth too didn't he.
:p
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Why don't you learn some facts before you talk.... :rolleyes:
I was using a bit of estimation + inflation. For the filming of the movie Top Gun, the Navy let the studio use F-14s for the price of fuel. The Navy charged $10,000 per hour per F-14 filmed.
I know the J-79s on the F-4 are smaller, but they are probably less fuel effecient too. Plus fuel costs have gone up since the late 80s.
So I'm sticking with the answer of $10,000/hr.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I was using a bit of estimation + inflation. For the filming of the movie Top Gun, the Navy let the studio use F-14s for the price of fuel. The Navy charged $10,000 per hour per F-14 filmed.
I know the J-79s on the F-4 are smaller, but they are probably less fuel effecient too. Plus fuel costs have gone up since the late 80s.
So I'm sticking with the answer of $10,000/hr.
Again, provide facts.... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I was using a bit of estimation + inflation. For the filming of the movie Top Gun, the Navy let the studio use F-14s for the price of fuel. The Navy charged $10,000 per hour per F-14 filmed.
I know the J-79s on the F-4 are smaller, but they are probably less fuel effecient too. Plus fuel costs have gone up since the late 80s.
So I'm sticking with the answer of $10,000/hr.
That $10,000 an hour probably includes maintenance costs.
if you're buying jet-a at $3.00/gallon PLEASE let me know where this magical place is.
F-4's burn JP-4, not sure how that equates to Jet-A. (The fuel designation may have changed since I was in the AF) It would be my guess that the US gov't gets a decent discount for buying huge volumes of fuel.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Again, provide facts.... :rolleyes:
Those are facts, validate them yourself if you want.
I think I get the picture now though. You must have been some enlisted wrench-turner in the airforce, so you think you know alot about jets. Just because a janitor cleans toilets doesn't mean hes a hydraulic engineer.
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You must have been some enlisted wrench-turner in the airforce, so you think you know alot about jets.
It might surprise you to find out just how much those *enlisted wrench-turners* know about the jets they work on. ;)
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Of course, because they're going to tell you how much they know (every chance they get).
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Shrimp I might not agree with the guy about anything but I promise you he is in posession of enough knowledge to make him credible. Much more than I can say for you using PFM to present conclusions.
Mechanics actually have to know how things work from a mechanical and engineering point of view. Pilots don't. You clearly don't.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Of course, because they're going to tell you how much they know (every chance they get).
I dont do that and I was one of those enlisted wrench turners you so obviously disdain. ;)
I do provide input on the things I do know as long as I know for sure they are no longer classified. :)
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Well, of course bodhi obviously comes across as an aeronautical genius in this thread, with his amazing posts like "Prove it (followed by a smiley face" and "Provide facts (with yet another smiley face)".
Golfer, your posts seem like they are made by a 15 year old kid. Thats just really how they come across to me. The reason I say that, is that they contain very little or no useful information. You mostly just reply that you think the other person is wrong, but never with any contradicting information.
But I guess if I wanted people to think I knew everything about jets and planes, I would act that way too.
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Originally posted by Elfie
I dont do that and I was one of those enlisted wrench turners you so obviously disdain. ;)
I do provide input on the things I do know as long as I know for sure they are no longer classified. :)
Don't worry elfie, nothing on the Sopwith Camel is classified any longer.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Don't worry elfie, nothing on the Sopwith Camel is classified any longer.
If I had worked on Sopwith Camel's I would probably have arthritis so bad I couldnt type by now, my eyesight would likely be so bad I would be wearing *pop bottle* glasses if not dead already. :D
I did however work on F-4E Phantom II's at Seymour Johnson AFB North Carolina from 81 - 83 and F-15A/B's at Elemendorf AFB Alaska from 83 - 87. My particular line of work was the aircraft weapons system. Which included loading munitions; testing, repair and preventive maintenance of the weapons system.
While working the F-15's I loaded 20mm cannon ammunition, AIM-7 and AIM-9 air to air missles along with 20 lb practice bombs (designation escapes me atm) and 2000 lb GP bombs.
F-4's were another story, I was certified/qualified to load over 30 different munitions including cluster bombs, chemical bombs, small tactical nukes, GP bombs, air to air missiles, air to ground missiles, laser guided bombs and 2.75 in rocket pods.
Also while working F-15's I spent one year in shop maintenance where I was involved in phased inspections, annual gun inspections, base level repairs on missile launchers, bomb racks, pylons and guns.
When I got assigned my own load crew, my crew set a base record for a Combat Turnaround. We loaded 4 missiles, 940 rnds of HEI ammo, removed the 4 missiles, in 13 minutes. AF standard was 45 minutes for that same load. Someone said we set an AF record with that CT but no one was ever able to verify that.
I was also cross trained as an APG (aircraft crew chief) *B-Man* where I assisted in launch/recovery operations including refueling. I even got to launch an F-15 a time or 2.
I was also the first weapons specialist to be qualified for *hot pit* refueling operations at Elmendorf.
While I do have detailed knowledge of the F-4E and F-15A/B weapon systems my knowledge of other aircraft weapon systems is general in nature. I had to have general knowledge of the weapon system of every aircraft in the USAF inventory for WAPS testing. (promotion testing)
I didnt over do things with this post did I? :D
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
You mostly just reply that you think the other person is wrong, but never with any contradicting information.
Thats because I don't know what the F4 fuel burn is. If I did...I would say so. If I was in fact like you I'd just use PFM and voila...I'd have fuel burn numbers.
I like to use real data and information instead of choosing to rely on PFM for my information.
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Well, of course bodhi obviously comes across as an aeronautical genius in this thread,
While I dont know all of Bodhi's qualifications, I do know that he runs his own buisiness doing restoration work on warbirds. So he definately has more aeronautical knowledge than your average Joe.
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Calculating for inflation, and using information provided for the maintence and flying cost the of F4 Phantom (from this site http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/F-4_Phantom_II#Costs), to fly an hour in the F-4 Phantom would cost $8,752.
Though this site lists the 1980s cost (for just the fuel) of filming the F-14s in Topgun as $7,600/hr.
The Navy made available to the film makers technical advisers; about 20 fighter pilots; the aircraft carriers U.S.S. Enterprise and U.S.S. Ranger; Miramar Naval Air Station at San Diego, and a small fleet of $37 million F-14 jets, charging, Mr. Scott said, only for the planes' fuel - $7,600 for each hour in the air.
That cost, extrapolated for todays inflation, would be $12,776/hr.
So theres the figures bodhi and golfer. I think I might go ahead and start pretending to be an airplane expert on this board too.
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how'd I get dragged into this? All I did was say don't use PFM to gather numbers. I didn't say your estimates were that far off since I have no data.
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[COLOR=dd0202]FLAMEWAR!!!1oneone[/COLOR]one :O :O :O :mad: :mad: :furious :furious :furious u all suk!!11:o :D OMFG i like teh flame wars
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Why is it not hard to picture debonair responding to a takeoff clearance something like...
"zOMFG!11!!!1oneoneone KlE4R 4 Tak30fF l33t!"
phonetically :)
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Calculating for inflation, and using information provided for the maintence and flying cost the of F4 Phantom (from this site http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/F-4_Phantom_II#Costs), to fly an hour in the F-4 Phantom would cost $8,752.
The figures I saw showed an F4E phantom carrying just below 2k gals in fuel internally. Based on range and reserve, roughly going to use up 1300 - 1500 gals in an hour. Use the high and then say $3.50 for Jet fuel (going rate in COS) and I come up with $5250 dollars..... NOT $10000.00.
Don't you worry though, if time permits, I will dig into the F4 Phantom Manuals I have and see what the burn rate is and post the actual numbers. Also will talk to a few Phantom pilots I know here in town and ask what their recollection is.
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
So theres the figures bodhi and golfer. I think I might go ahead and start pretending to be an airplane expert on this board too.
Pretend all you like, you are doing a crappy job so far and everyone knows it. As for me being an expert???? LOL, no, not even close. But I will tell you this, before I make a post here stating a fact, I'll damn sure know the fact and provide where to source it. Know-it-alls and aviation do not last long, they are usually involved with a smoking hole.
All in all, post facts with back up info. It's simple and makes you look like you know how to source the information you use, instead of just spouting out your arse...
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Man...My intentions for this post was to simply talk about how kick arse a ride would be! Too bad aquaturd completely hijacks and then proceeds to attack two respected members of our community who by all measures, have proven to us that they are educated more than your "average joe" in aviation...
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Those are facts, validate them yourself if you want.
I think I get the picture now though. You must have been some enlisted wrench-turner in the airforce, so you think you know alot about jets. Just because a janitor cleans toilets doesn't mean hes a hydraulic engineer.
You have obviously never heard of the old saying, "The aircraft belongs to the crewchief...Pilot's just borrow it"