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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on September 10, 2006, 08:02:47 PM

Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 10, 2006, 08:02:47 PM
Recently got this in the mail.


dont know how true it is that it was sent into an editorial or not as it was one of those "forward to al your friends" deals.
but it sums it up pretty nicely anyway

Let's say I break into your house

"A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!! It explains
  things better than all the bull you hear on TV.
 
  Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country
  protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of
  illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect
  its  own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and,
  once here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand
  the thinking behind these protests.
 
  Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me
  in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds
  and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've
  done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest
  (except for when I broke into your house).
 
  According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must
  add me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other
  benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do your yard work  
 because he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).  

 If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will  
  picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there.
 It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and
  I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest, um, except
  for well, you know...(the breaking in part).
 
  And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction
  of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being
  accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah,
  and I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me.
 
  Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!  Only in America....if you agree,    
  pass it on (in English). Share it if you see the value of it as a good simile If not
  blow it off along with your future Social Security funds."
_____________________________ _____________________________ __

Just adding in some figures I read in an AP article

12 million Estimated ILLEGAL immigrants in the U.S.

850,000 ILLEGAL immigrants who enter the U.S. each year

2,300,000 Citizens who became naturalized U.S. citizens
between 2000 and 2003 (its not like we're not letting anyone in..LEGALLY)

5 percent of U.S. jobs estimated to be held by illegal immigrants.
 (hmmm, wonder what would happen to the unemployment rate if that 5% were being done by LEGAL US Citizens )

14 percent Estimated portion of construction jobs held by illegals (Looks like not all of those jobs are those that nobody else would be willing to do)

12 percent Estimated portion of food preparation jobs held by illegals (see above)



State By State Counts (http://cdn.digitalcity.com/newsinteractives/ap/2006/immigration/immigrants.swf)
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Neubob on September 10, 2006, 08:08:24 PM
This country's biggest enemy is its own fetish for political correctness.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: AWMac on September 10, 2006, 08:16:05 PM
Beat that and I'm frikken Laid Off...with a Death in the Family.

Mac
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: SMIDSY on September 10, 2006, 08:53:46 PM
immigrants need to go through the citizenship process, people who illegally work in america should have the option of becomming citizens or get kicked out.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: BlueJ1 on September 10, 2006, 08:56:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SMIDSY
immigrants need to go through the citizenship process, people who illegally work in america should have the option of becomming citizens or get kicked out.


Isnt that why they are illegal to begin with? :)
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: doobs on September 10, 2006, 09:39:57 PM
Enter  my house uninvited, you will leave via body bag. with police escort, send in the demonstrators. will raise value of my house.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 10, 2006, 09:47:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SMIDSY
immigrants need to go through the citizenship process, people who illegally work in america should have the option of becomming citizens or get kicked out.


If they came here illegally.....then no they shouldnt have the option to become a citizen. Just coming here illegally makes them criminals.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: rpm on September 10, 2006, 10:09:29 PM
I live in Texas. We have a well known theft deterrant system.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Masherbrum on September 11, 2006, 12:37:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
I live in Texas. We have a well known theft deterrant system.


Steely Dan's?
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: rpm on September 11, 2006, 12:39:57 AM
Smith & Wesson
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Masherbrum on September 11, 2006, 12:42:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Smith & Wesson


Relax Cowboy!  :D
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Shuckins on September 11, 2006, 06:31:46 AM
Increase the size of the border patrol by an order of magnitude.

Undoubtedly expensive, but should bring the problem under control.

It's kind of tough for a nation to maintain its security when its borders are like a sieve.


rpm...I'll see yer Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson and raise ya Mr. Browning, Mr. Remington, Mr. Winchester, Mr. Ruger, and Mr. Taurus.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Nilsen on September 11, 2006, 06:37:27 AM
Enter my house and ill throw a sanction and four fluffy pillows smack on your face! :mad:




If that doesnt make you leave ill simply beat you to a bloody pulp. :)
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Neubob on September 11, 2006, 07:57:11 AM
Shoot them on sight.

As a preemptive response, I'd like to say that we'd only be Hitler if we shot them while trying to leave.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: lazs2 on September 11, 2006, 08:39:12 AM
I doubt that you can ever make an illegal proof border but it should be strengthened.

My solution remains that you simply arrest every employer... big and small and make mandatory jail time a part of every conviction.

If no employers will hire illgal aliens we will have no more illegal aliens.

lazs
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: lazs2 on September 11, 2006, 08:40:48 AM
A good example would be to change the story to....

You let your brother live in the house if he cleans it and makes dinner and mows the lawns and washes the cars and such..

He hires an illegal to do all that for fifty cents an hour and puts him up in the garage to live.

lazs
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: red26 on September 11, 2006, 09:37:43 AM
I would like to see a wall like the one that was in berlin be put up on both sides then we could put perahnas in the Rio Grande. And on top of all that since I read in here were two border patrol agents went to prison for trying to get a fuy that crossed the border they were given sespentions for chasing him and given prison time for shooting him when one of the officers had already tried to take him down the illegal won the battel wile his parner was on his way to help him out on foot as the guy niticed the officer running toarwd him he turned and actied like he had a gun so the officer shot at him and hit him. that officer is geting something like 20 yrs for shooting the illegal. The outher officer is getting like 15 for assulting him.
 I think we need to put hired guns on the border. Just regular guys with guns payed well.

Yall can call me a tard if yall want to.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Goomba on September 11, 2006, 12:27:58 PM
Each and every living American citizen is a son or daughter of an immigrant family.

The difference between us and these criminals is...we (or our families) had the basic decency to ask permission first.

And (I'm proud to say) no handouts were required, just work.  Had the same demands been made and met back then, we'd all be speaking Sicilian.

New legal citizens are the strength and lifeblood of this nation, to be welcomed with pride.  Criminals are...well, criminals.

Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: red26 on September 11, 2006, 12:35:33 PM
We are being invaded and Washington dosent even stop to think about it.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Reynolds on September 11, 2006, 01:54:48 PM
I say we solve this while satisfying our PC fetish. Put a sign up every 10 feet that says "This is provate property of the united states of america, and any tresspassors will be shot". Then when they sneak in, SHOOT THEM! They come into our country illegally, they do so at their own risk, and it should then be LEGAL for any US citizen to kill any illegal immigrant so long as he can prove they are illegal, and do so not in cold blood, but to protect our country (The intent can be proved by whether or not anything is taken from the dead alien, or whether the body is disturbed in any way other than it having been shot). Thats how I say we do it.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 11, 2006, 02:25:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I doubt that you can ever make an illegal proof border but it should be strengthened.

My solution remains that you simply arrest every employer... big and small and make mandatory jail time a part of every conviction.

If no employers will hire illgal aliens we will have no more illegal aliens.

lazs


Lazs.....if Mexicans all had decent paying jobs in Mexico and could provide for their families there......do you think they would be leaving their home country to immigrate to another one?
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: lazs2 on September 11, 2006, 02:35:47 PM
elfie... if they had the economy that would support that kind of standard of living there may even be some Americans sneaking across the border to work in mexico.

I doubt that they would be treated well... mexicans shoot people illegaly crossing their southern border.

But... who cares?   There is nothing that we can do about their political system or economy and probly we shouldn't.

My solution involves the simple arrest of the criminals on our side of the border be they mexican or American.

And... it would work.

When you get mexicos politics and economy fixed we can talk about that then.

lazs
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 11, 2006, 03:05:36 PM
Quote
When you get mexicos politics and economy fixed we can talk about that then.


Their crappy economy is the root cause of them wanting to move here.

I agree that the employers hiring them are just as criminal as those sneaking across the border. I just dont agree that the employers are whats causing them to move here. Fix the crappy Mexican economy and your average Mexican will have no reason to pack up his family and move to another country.

I see the problem as partly ours (employers) and partly theirs (crappy economy), not just a one sided deal.

I dont think America should be the one to fix their economy though, we can help....I have no problems with us extending a helping hand, but it's their problem, not ours and Mexicans should be the ones to fix it.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Lye-El on September 11, 2006, 03:39:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I doubt that you can ever make an illegal proof border but it should be strengthened.

My solution remains that you simply arrest every employer... big and small and make mandatory jail time a part of every conviction.

If no employers will hire illgal aliens we will have no more illegal aliens.

lazs


I have to agree with Lazs. It would be much cheaper than hiring thousands more border patrol agents. After the fines the community service could be mowing grass and working on the corporate farms for a couple of months.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 11, 2006, 03:51:01 PM
I think mandatory jail time would go a long ways toward stopping employers from hiring illegals.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Dichotomy on September 11, 2006, 04:05:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Increase the size of the border patrol by an order of magnitude.

Undoubtedly expensive, but should bring the problem under control.

It's kind of tough for a nation to maintain its security when its borders are like a sieve.


rpm...I'll see yer Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson and raise ya Mr. Browning, Mr. Remington, Mr. Winchester, Mr. Ruger, and Mr. Taurus.


<---- I just release the hound.  Slower and the screams of pain and agony are very satisfying :)
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: lazs2 on September 12, 2006, 09:27:03 AM
elfie... you are overcomplicating.. it matters not what the economy there is..

If there are no jobs or benifiets here then they will not come and the missery will stop.   they die trying to get here and they are treated worse than slaves in the 1700's were...

And... it is all the fault of the criminal....yes criminal...employers.  Many politicians are just now beggining to see the truth in this.

Many states are moving to criminalize more the hiring and to cut off benifets for illegals.

It will work but... the democrats do not want to lose such a potential socialist/commie voting block so they work against it.

the democrats lost the working man so they have to create a new underclass to be dependant on them.

lazs
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: fd ski on September 12, 2006, 11:07:09 AM
lazs is right and some of you need to see a doctor...
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: JB88 on September 12, 2006, 11:10:30 AM
yep.  it IS the employers.  cut off the head.

i have been asking alot of questions lately about civil suits.  would it be possible to approach it from that angle i wonder?
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: lukster on September 12, 2006, 11:22:09 AM
Unfortunately it's not just the democrats working against solving the problem. Too many businesses are profiting from this cheap labor making the republicans reluctant to act as well. I think both parties are trying to prevent it becoming a central issue come election time. It's up to the people who are fed up to make it an issue.

Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
elfie... you are overcomplicating.. it matters not what the economy there is..

If there are no jobs or benifiets here then they will not come and the missery will stop.   they die trying to get here and they are treated worse than slaves in the 1700's were...

And... it is all the fault of the criminal....yes criminal...employers.  Many politicians are just now beggining to see the truth in this.

Many states are moving to criminalize more the hiring and to cut off benifets for illegals.

It will work but... the democrats do not want to lose such a potential socialist/commie voting block so they work against it.

the democrats lost the working man so they have to create a new underclass to be dependant on them.

lazs
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: lazs2 on September 12, 2006, 02:43:42 PM
I agree... the republicans are not doing as much as they can... they don't want to be seen as the mean man who is tossing the poor helpless family out of a job....

You can imagine how the socialist media would play all those illegals out of work with no benifets can you not?

The tears!   the horror!   truth is... it will be rough on these criminals at first... both American and mexican but... it has to be done... the longer we wait the bigger the problem is.

You can't blame mexicans for pouring in....  we say no but we do yes.... we hire em and we give em as many services for free as the most insane ice bear country would do.   they are being victimized by our greed and apathy.

They are not to blame so much as the people who lure them here with jobs and free benifiets that they are not entiltled to.

lazs
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2006, 03:26:40 PM
Quote
elfie... you are overcomplicating.. it matters not what the economy there is..


The crappy Mexican economy is at the heart of the illegal immigration issue. With a strong, vibrant economy, and wages that allow Mexicans to provide for their families, the Mexicans have no reason to pack up and move to another country.

Canada has a strong economy, but if Canada had an economy similar to Mexico's.....we would have the same type of illegal immigration along our northern border as we have on our southern border.

You want to treat the symptoms, without taking care of the disease. In this case the symptoms are illegal immigration and employers hiring illegals. The disease is a weak Mexican economy and a porous border.

IF...Mexico had a strong economy.....do you believe Mexicans would still be coming here in droves?
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 12, 2006, 09:17:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
The crappy Mexican economy is at the heart of the illegal immigration issue. With a strong, vibrant economy, and wages that allow Mexicans to provide for their families, the Mexicans have no reason to pack up and move to another country.

Canada has a strong economy, but if Canada had an economy similar to Mexico's.....we would have the same type of illegal immigration along our northern border as we have on our southern border.

You want to treat the symptoms, without taking care of the disease. In this case the symptoms are illegal immigration and employers hiring illegals. The disease is a weak Mexican economy and a porous border.

IF...Mexico had a strong economy.....do you believe Mexicans would still be coming here in droves?


Is why I keep saying.
Make Mexico a State.
and let the Donald trump types loose down there to develop it.

Problem solved inside of 10 years
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Neubob on September 12, 2006, 09:32:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Is why I keep saying.
Make Mexico a State.
and let the Donald trump types loose down there to develop it.

Problem solved inside of 10 years


Then the illegal immigrants will start pouring in from central and south America.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2006, 09:54:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Then the illegal immigrants will start pouring in from central and south America.


The border is alot shorter there, can keep the same number of BP agents that we have now, move them farther south and have alot better coverage on the border. :D
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2006, 09:56:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Is why I keep saying.
Make Mexico a State.
and let the Donald trump types loose down there to develop it.

Problem solved inside of 10 years


I think the idea has it's good points for sure. However, that idea would never fly in our PC world today. Well, it might fly like a lead balloon. ;)
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2006, 10:02:27 PM
Actually.......


If military force wasn't used to make Mexico the 51st state........instead, diplomacy is used and the Mexican's willingly joined the Union. I think that would fly in our PC world.

Developers would go nuts in Mexico creating all kinds of jobs.

Dred....you're a genius!!

Drediock for President!! :D
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Arlo on September 12, 2006, 10:38:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Smith & Wesson


See your S&W and raise ya a Colonel Colt (*sigh* If I still had mine). :cry
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: wooley on September 13, 2006, 02:20:21 AM
America is not the only country struggling with the problem of illegal immigrants and 'asylum seakers'. Most Western European countries also face huge influxes.

If its any consolation, they're handling the problem just as badly.

As a legal immigrant to the US, let me tell you the level of beaurocratic incompetance you face trying to get a green card or citizenship makes the illegal route seem mighty tempting sometimes.
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 13, 2006, 02:36:09 AM
Quote
As a legal immigrant to the US


Thanks for asking first! :)
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: JB88 on September 13, 2006, 03:23:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by wooley
America is not the only country struggling with the problem of illegal immigrants and 'asylum seakers'. Most Western European countries also face huge influxes.

If its any consolation, they're handling the problem just as badly.

As a legal immigrant to the US, let me tell you the level of beaurocratic incompetance you face trying to get a green card or citizenship makes the illegal route seem mighty tempting sometimes.


no doubt.  

so let's create a very simple system of checks and measures for short term visits of no more than two years with a formal request for citizenship required for an extension.  perhaps it is required that this be accompanied by the sponsorship of a naturalized american citizen.  

this might actually increase the contact between guests and immigrants and remove the standard barriers between divisions within society.  

7 years, no serious problems, you get to stay.

if not.  come for two years, take your experience home.  make it a better place.
crazy?
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: lazs2 on September 13, 2006, 08:54:12 AM
elfie...  are you suggesting that we go to war with mexico and take it away from them?

Are you suggesting that we meddle in their economy and force them to have the same system as canada and the U.S.?

We can't do anything about their economy.... least not overnight... but we can stop the hiring and the benifiets overnight.

Perhaps if they had to stay in mexico they would think about improving their own country?

They have the resources they need only to gather the will.

lazs
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Angus on September 13, 2006, 09:51:50 AM
You can't break into my house.

(It's not locked :D)

But if you would, and in a threatening manner you're in fer a knuckle sandwich and/or some injuries :D
Title: Let's say I break into your house
Post by: Elfie on September 13, 2006, 02:09:32 PM
Quote
elfie... are you suggesting that we go to war with mexico and take it away from them?


Heck no. That's why I said that Dred's idea would never fly in our PC world. I thought he meant military action.

Quote
Are you suggesting that we meddle in their economy and force them to have the same system as canada and the U.S.?


No I'm not suggesting meddling in their economy.

Quote
We can't do anything about their economy.... least not overnight... but we can stop the hiring and the benifiets overnight.


Quite true that we can't fix their economy overnight, and also true we CAN stop the illegal hiring and benefits......and we SHOULD. (We agree on this much)

Quote
Perhaps if they had to stay in mexico they would think about improving their own country?


I suspect the average Mexican has very little resources to do anything about changing their own country.

Quote
They have the resources they need only to gather the will.


Iirc, Mexico has some pretty significant undeveloped resources, including oil. It requires cash to develop those resources and Mexico is a rather poor country.

What we could do, is extend a helping hand to Mexico to assist them in improving their own economy so their citizens wont want to pack up and move here. I'm not saying do things for them. Doing it for them will teach them nothing and not having learned, how would they then maintain what we had built?

Get the economic *experts* together to see what areas of the Mexican economy can be improved quickest and easiest, start there since that will give the fastest return on your efforts, then go from there.

I dont have specific answers on how to fix their economy. I just dont have that kind of knowledge. Fixing/improving their economy should be up to them though. Others can provide help in the form of cash investments and consulting.