Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1K3 on September 18, 2006, 02:19:41 PM
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Yamato vs Musashi
On blue print, which ship is the best. Which ship took more punishment from torps/bombs/rockets?
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The best battleship class to ever sail was the Iowa class.
One Iowa prolly could have taken on either of those Japanese tubs and won.
Check out this cool page for info on Both (http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm)
(http://www.hndme.com/BB62NJ.jpg)
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On blueprint?
USS Montana Class
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i13/mentalguy/Montana_Class.png)
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Go Team America!
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Battleships were outdated by WWI and were totally annihilated by carrier fleets in WWII. So they were nothing but megaexpensive symbols of naval power at best.
The US navy knew it and that's why also the Iowa class was put to mothballs for decades. They were only revived later because of lack of suitable cruisers and the fact that they had cost an arm and a leg to build with little to no use under the hood.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Battleships were outdated by WWI and were totally annihilated by carrier fleets in WWII. So they were nothing but megaexpensive symbols of naval power at best.
The US navy knew it and that's why also the Iowa class was put to mothballs for decades. They were only revived later because of lack of suitable cruisers and the fact that they had cost an arm and a leg to build with little to no use under the hood.
Who cares, they're effin' cool.
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Well since they were sister ships. It's hard to make a statment on which one was the best.
That's like comapring the Nagato and Mustsu.
Or the Bismark and Tirpitz.
Or the Missouri and New Jersey.
Or the South Dakota and Alabama.
Or the Arizona and Pennsylvania.
Or the Texas and New York.
As far as how much punishment.................. You have to also look at where the punishment was as much as the number of hits. 5 hits by bombs that glance off armour or explode topside are not going to do as much damage as one that explodes punching a hole below the water line, or hitting an ammunition magazine.
But I will go out on a limb and say.
The Shinano , the third sister of the Yamato clan. She was converted to a carrier during her construction because of the Japanese carrier losses of 1942/43. Although she was sunk on her maiden voyage without launching one aircraft. She had the potential to be the best. Also this was the largest
aircraft carrier ever launched until the CVN USS Enterprise in the early 60's.
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No offence but,
Seems to me he asked which ws better between the Yamato vs Musashi.
I dont see anywhere where he mentioned a comparison between either of those and any American tub.
So I dont see how they even enter the discussion
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Battleships were outdated by WWI and were totally annihilated by carrier fleets in WWII. So they were nothing but megaexpensive symbols of naval power at best.
The US navy knew it and that's why also the Iowa class was put to mothballs for decades. They were only revived later because of lack of suitable cruisers and the fact that they had cost an arm and a leg to build with little to no use under the hood.
Seems to me they proved quite useful in supporitng invasion troops
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
No offence but,
Seems to me he asked which ws better between the Yamato vs Musashi.
I dont see anywhere where he mentioned a comparison between either of those and any American tub.
So I dont see how they even enter the discussion
None taken, in fact you're correct. I was trying to make the point it's hard to determine which one is best because they are sister ships. Same class , basically same blueprints. I just got carried away in the examples.:)
However I still fail to see the point of the question. It's almost like asking which H2 hummer is better based on VIN#s
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Seems to me they proved quite useful in supporitng invasion troops
They did provide marginal support with the few guns they carried. Then again, most battleships were hunted down and sunk in WW2 by carrier fleets.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
They did provide marginal support with the few guns they carried. Then again, most battleships were hunted down and sunk in WW2 by carrier fleets.
Oh yeah? What US battleships were sunk after December 7th?
In fact most sunk that day went on to fight the rest of the war.
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Oh yeah get a life tard the US is not the entire planet.
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fruity!
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Oh yeah get a life tard the US is not the entire planet.
Nice way to admit your wrong.
And the US is the only part of the planet that maters. Where is finland again? Oh yeah, no one cares. :D
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
They did provide marginal support with the few guns they carried. Then again, most battleships were hunted down and sunk in WW2 by carrier fleets.
I dont call 2000 pound+ shells *marginal* by any means. Just ask any survivors on the recieving end of those shells ;)
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To answer the question;
Musashi was sunk by repeated aerial attack during the Battle of Leyte Gulf on October 24, 1944. After being hit by an estimated 17 torpedoes and 20 bombs.
Yamato was hit by successive waves of US carrier based aircraft and sank after absorbing 5 - 10 bombs and at least 10 torpedo hits.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
To answer the question;
Musashi was sunk by repeated aerial attack during the Battle of Leyte Gulf on October 24, 1944. After being hit by an estimated 17 torpedoes and 20 bombs.
Yamato was hit by successive waves of US carrier based aircraft and sank after absorbing 5 - 10 bombs and at least 10 torpedo hits.
Ahhh Honorable Diablo-san. The question was which one is the best.? Not just which one took more punishment...........
What kind of freakin question is that!!!:furious
;)
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Neither. But at a head to head contest I'd give it to the Yamato only because one of the guns of the rear turret on Musashi was rendered useless by a failed "shotgun" ammo experiment, thus 9 guns vs. 8 guns.
Also, the battleship more than made up for it's expensive existence by being superb AA platforms, especially in the later stages of the war.
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This is near on topic....
Yamato, Nagato, Kongo and Haruna had one last golden opportunity to get some revenge on the US Navy. They failed miserably. I urge everyone with a interest in Naval and Naval Aviation history to borrow or buy a copy of "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors", by James D. Hornfischer. It is an extraordinary book about the most extraordinary, and single greatest victory in US Navy history. Perhaps, not as important as Midway, but a victory that is, IMHO, without equal in the annals of naval warfare.
(http://www.tincansailorsbook.com/images/cover.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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I read that book 2 months ago. It's a must read.
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Didn't know Wooderson could read!:huh
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Wooderson: The older you get, the more rules they are going to try and get you to follow. You just gotta keep on livin', man. L-I-V-I-N.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
I read that book 2 months ago. It's a must read.
It's an amazing story about an incredible fight.
Picture this, the Destroyer Escort Samuel B. Roberts closes on and engages the pristine IJN Heavy Cruiser, Chikuma. At ranges down to 2,000 yards, the Roberts fired more than 600 five inch rounds from her two single-gun turrets. Over the course of 35 minutes, the Chikuma is wrecked. One main turret is out of commission, her bridge is nothing but blackened and twisted metal. Her superstructure is completely ablaze. Riddled by 5" AP, 5" AA, 5" proximity, 5" common (HE), and possibly the most devastating; 5" starshell, the Chikuma was struggling to stay alive. Meanwhile, the obnoxious little DE, turns away, utterly unscathed. The battered and burned Chikuma would later be finished off by planes from escort carriers.
This is typical of the events documented by the book.
Yep, it's a must read....
My regards,
Widewing
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The one scene that stands out in my memory is the captain of one of the destroyers conning the ship from the fantail, yelling orders down into the after steering space through a hole in the main deck.
Amazing stuff indeed.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
The one scene that stands out in my memory is the captain of one of the destroyers conning the ship from the fantail, yelling orders down into the after steering space through a hole in the main deck.
Amazing stuff indeed.
That was CMDR Evans of the USS Johnston... Received the CMoH posthumously.
After the Johnston finally foundered, riddled from stem to stern (she inflicted serious damage on 5 major Japanese warships), the aft turret gun crew fired off the last ready ammo (the magazines being flooded) and the last guys aboard went over the side.
As the DD slowly eased under the sea, a Japanese Destroyer was seen approaching at flank speed. Suddenly, the bow wave dropped and the Japanese DD slowed... The surviving crew huddled in their rafts or watched while floating in their life jackets, expecting to be machine-gunned by the DD. As the Destroyer glided by, almost silently, they noticed something unusual.
Aboard the Japanese warship, its Captain had ordered his crew to man the port side rail. In their immaculate white uniforms, the crew stood shoulder to shoulder. Someone then called the Japanese crew to attention. On the bridge, a sharply dressed officer offered a crisp salute to the Johnston and her valiant crew as his ship eased by.
Powering up, the Japanese tin can accelerated away as some of the Japanese sailors tossed canned food to Johnston's survivors...
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The US navy knew it and that's why also the Iowa class was put to mothballs for decades. They were only revived later because of lack of suitable cruisers and the fact that they had cost an arm and a leg to build with little to no use under the hood.
I think we got our moneys worth out of the Iowas after WW2.
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Originally posted by Widewing
That was CMDR Evans of the USS Johnston... Received the CMoH posthumously.
After the Johnston finally foundered, riddled from stem to stern (she inflicted serious damage on 5 major Japanese warships), the aft turret gun crew fired off the last ready ammo (the magazines being flooded) and the last guys aboard went over the side.
As the DD slowly eased under the sea, a Japanese Destroyer was seen approaching at flank speed. Suddenly, the bow wave dropped and the Japanese DD slowed... The surviving crew huddled in their rafts or watched while floating in their life jackets, expecting to be machine-gunned by the DD. As the Destroyer glided by, almost silently, they noticed something unusual.
Aboard the Japanese warship, its Captain had ordered his crew to man the port side rail. In their immaculate white uniforms, the crew stood shoulder to shoulder. Someone then called the Japanese crew to attention. On the bridge, a sharply dressed officer offered a crisp salute to the Johnston and her valiant crew as his ship eased by.
Powering up, the Japanese tin can accelerated away as some of the Japanese sailors tossed canned food to Johnston's survivors...
My regards,
Widewing
Yes, that's the part. IIRC the Japanese threw cans of tomatos in the sea for the survivors. Thanks for refreshing my memory Widewing, it truly was the most heroic of feats by any US Navy battle. And, a good majority of the crews of the DD's and DE's were the much reviled reservists.
It also surprised me to read that the DE, who's name I've forgotten, was built and commissioned here in Houston on the ship channel by Brown & Root.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Yes, that's the part. IIRC the Japanese threw cans of tomatos in the sea for the survivors. .
But did they toss them a can opener? :D