Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rameusb5 on September 19, 2006, 09:44:59 AM
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Hello. First of all allow me to introduce myself. I come from the World War II Online community. While there, I was a member of a bomber squad called the 617 Dambusters. We performed bombing raids on the German factories on a nightly basis. Unfortunately, the bombing part of that game is pretty boring, with only one bomber per side to use, and the Allied bomber is either the DB-7 or the Havoc (which you guys know as the A20 or Boston).
I am looking for a new game to get into, and saw an advertisement on the Military Channel for Aces High. I have downloaded the game and flown around offline for a couple of days to get an idea of what the game is like. So far, it looks ok. I do like that there are multiple "heavy" bombers to chose from, including the Lancaster, which I have a personal attachment to (after all, my old squad was the Dambusters!). :)
I've also looked around the forums for a bit to see how the strategic layer of the game works. So far I haven't found that much information, so I thought I'd be lazy and ask for a link to where I can get info on exactly what strategic bombing does in this game. I also have some questions I'm hoping you can answer for me. I like to find out as much about a game as possible before I spawn into the multiplayer arena. Otherwise I waste peoples time and resources asking stupid questions or wasting equipment.
Ok, so here are my questions:
1. Are there bomber squads in the game?
2. Do bombers have any kind of impact on the game? Does bombing an airfield or town result in anything?
3. Do people coordinate to form bomber flights that are escorted by fighter pilots, or is this game more of a "free-for-all" type of game where you have to fend for yourself most of the time?
4. Is it possible for mutiple people to crew the same aircraft? If so, how many? Is this common? I would love to be a gunner for someone to start out.
5. Can I ALWAYS fly a bomber (any bomber), or do I have to earn perkpoints as a fighter pilot first? I don't mind starting out with a "puny" level bomber and working my way up to the big boys, but I'd rather not have to invest a lot of time in a fighter plane just to spawn a bomber later on. (WWIIOL is like this)
Thanks in advance for your answers!
Rameus
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Originally posted by Rameusb5
Ok, so here are my questions:
First off, welcome to AH, I'm sure you'll have a good time. While I've never played WW2OL, I hear that AH is vastly better in everything apart from the ground war :)
1. Are there bomber squads in the game?
Yes, there are several, as well as hundreds of squads that do everything, with fighter wings, GV guys, and bomber pilots... The best thing to do if you're looking for a squad, is to post in the squadron forum down bottom of the forum menu ;)
2. Do bombers have any kind of impact on the game? Does bombing an airfield or town result in anything?
If you bomb an airfield, different things will happen, depending on what you destroy, but these effects include disabling vehicles, aircraft, and loadout options. Bombing the 'strat' objects like factories and cities effect the repair times of airfield buildings.
3. Do people coordinate to form bomber flights that are escorted by fighter pilots, or is this game more of a "free-for-all" type of game where you have to fend for yourself most of the time?
Yes, many people form missions, which you can do yourself as well, where you can choose the target and planetypes used in the mission. Popular missions are those with bombers and escorts ;)
4. Is it possible for mutiple people to crew the same aircraft? If so, how many? Is this common? I would love to be a gunner for someone to start out.
Yes, you can join any plane as an observer. If that plane has gunner positions, the observer can control them :) You can only have 1 gunner/observer to a plane though...
5. Can I ALWAYS fly a bomber (any bomber), or do I have to earn perkpoints as a fighter pilot first? I don't mind starting out with a "puny" level bomber and working my way up to the big boys, but I'd rather not have to invest a lot of time in a fighter plane just to spawn a bomber later on. (WWIIOL is like this)
Eeewww, that sounds boring! In AH you can fly any ride you like, there are no restrictions, apart from limiting uberplanes like the me163 to one field (no bombers are limited), and of course, the perk planes (the only buff that's perked is the Ar234, and the perks to use it need to be earned in a bomber). Perks have 3 categories, fighter, bomber and vehicle, and to earn them you need to use that respective vehicle.
Hope all that helps, and welcome to the game, it is vastly better than WW2OL flight dynamics and action wise ;) you're bound to enjoy yourself :aok
Thanks in advance for your answers!
Rameus
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What he said... plus it's free for 15 days, I strongly suggest you try it out :)
PS: Welcome to the madhouse!
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One other wrinkle -- we have multiple arenas, split by timeframe.
So, in the early war period, Ju88s and Bostons are the main bombers; to get Lancasters there, it costs perk points (which you earn by successful missions). in later arenas, the lancaster doesnt cost anything...but the fighters are a lot nastier to fend off.
Gunning is more than half the fun in bombers, and some guys are scary good at killing attackers. (Not me!) Fortunately for the bombers, most attackers get lazy and come up from the 6 o'clock.....which isnt too good for their health.
Just be aware: AH has a pretty realistic flight model, and it can take a long time to learn the game. There's a lot of depth, a lot to learn, and lots of new things to try.
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Yea sign up join the rest of us knuckel heads..........:rolleyes:
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also, getting to altitude in bombers can take alot of time. just be prepared for that.
gunning is sort of hard to explain. some people will gladly accept a gunner, others will get angry if someone even asks.
1 bit of advise: don't just sit in the tower asking over and over "anyone need a gunner?" it can be a bit distracting and annoying for some.
it is best to just get up there yourself and get a feel for the plane and gun positions. F3 and F5 external views are critical to survival as a bomber gunner.
is it somewhat a free-for-all in the MA, but there are organized actions, just not scheduled or going on all the time.
as for what to bomb, towns @ airfields must be destroyed to capture. there's a bunch of buildings there. but as mjr. biggles said there are many different things to bomb and different reasons.
check out netaces.org
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The two biggest differences between WW2OL and AH are flight model and game play structure.
AH has a vastly superior flight model. They arnt even in the same ball park.
AH has a game play that is much more free form. Its 3 nations at each other. If players want to organize them selfs its up for them to make it happen. If players just want to fly around and furball its up to them.
This can be both a frustration for a WW2OL player and nice freedom.
Its just different give it a shot.
Bombing does have impact. Inorder to take a field the town must be destroyed. This can be done with bombers or JABOs. Inorder to help the effort of taking down the town the fighter hangers can be destroyed. Inorder to protect a CV from bombers the bomber hangers can be destroyed. Ordenance, troops, radar, ect can also be destoyed but that is more suited for JABOs.
AH also has the Special events arena that runs scenarios and snapshots. These are in a historical setting with a much higher level of organization. Scenarios are very well organized with COs, chain of command, ect and even in the upcomming BOB scenario radar opperators. Snapshots are smaller and a bit more adhok organized but still have mission based game play.
Tex
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I played WW2OL from its start and for three years after. I'd bounce back and forth between it and AH. Two years ago I left WW2OL and stayed here at AH just when it went to AH2.
Its alot of fun here. Two of the best things this game has over ww2ol is the variety of aircraft, and the ability to talk to other people in the game.
I just re-joined WW2OL this week to see how it was. Since rejoining it Im remembering why I left in the first place.
As for bombing strats in here, they are fun to go bomb, and it gives you good scores, but from what Ive seen it doesnt affect the game much. However bombing towns are neccessary to capture bases. And sometimes if there is alot of resistance, you need to bomb the bases too.
When going on a bomb run, its best to ask others in the area what needs hitting. Some guys like to have the fighter hangers left up so they can vulch planes trying to take off, and will let you know that if you kill the fighter hangers on them. Since the hangers, fighter,bomber,and vehicle, all come back up so quickly, its best to make sure a town is flat first, then if capture attempts are being thwarted by the enemy upping there, kill the hangers.
Theres alot of us in here who like to do missions. Some like to set up capture missions, some like to do realistic mass bomb drops on a target. You will need to fly with a few folks to see what you like best. Then join a squad and have fun.
Glad to see ya here!
And best of all...the planes are almost always available for you to fly without flying an hour to target :)
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ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!
It's been over an hour and this guy has not been told that bombing has no place in this game! It's all about furballing and advanced ACM's!
Welcome Rameusb5 .
If you like bombing it boils down to this:
AHII offers you many different bombers.
AHII offers you many targets to drop bombs on.
Bombing can be fun.
But beware. There are certain things that, while they can be bombed, should never be bombed. For example: If there is a large low-level fight occuring between two bases, you should never bomb the fighter hangers on one of those fields. Doing so would label you a "Griefer" or "Toolshedder".
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Wow, thank you guys for the quick and detailed answers! This was what I was hoping for. In other sims, the bombers seem to be the "red-headed stepchildren" of the game. It sounds like bombers can be quite important.
WWIIOL (and some of the other games I've played) have pretty advanced flight mechanics, so I'm not too worried about that. I'm not saying either is better (I really have no opinion on the matter since I've never flown in real life). But in the few hours I've had to play offline it seems pretty straightforward. (It reminds me of warbirds in a lot of ways).
I think I'll definately log in and try out the game. Look forward to seeing you guys in the air.
S!
Rameus
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Originally posted by Rameusb5
(It reminds me of warbirds in a lot of ways).
That's probably not entirely coincidental. ;)
From the "Difference between Aces High and Warbirds" thread...
Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
That's probably not entirely coincidental. ;)
From the "Difference between Aces High and Warbirds" thread...
LOL, I didn't know that.
Explains a lot then... I must say I rather prefer the AH bombsights to the WB ones... :D
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I think it is Revor............. :O :noid
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Rameusb5
I dont want you to get too high expectations. While Bombers DO play a role in this game and ARE important to the base taking process you will quickly notice that the focus of the player base is fighters.
Note that I say the focus of the player base. Once again the arena is there and it becomes what we make of it.
Most players are into fighters.
You will find that most fighter pilots rather go off fight another fighter then escort a bomber pilot.
This is why it is important to find a squad to fly with. If you find a squad that has a similar view on the game play as you do then you and that squad will help each other out.
Im not saying that the players arnt team playing Im just saying that there are many players that play the game the way they enjoy it and within that area of game play they do team work.
In fact you see more cross squad team work here then in other games simply because of the built in voice chat. Everyone is on the same voice chat not split over tons of different TS2 and/or VENT servers.
Tex
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Thanks Tex. I appreciate the candor.
To be honest, I kinda figured as much. Teamplaying is not something that is inherant in ANY game. Squads are usually the way to go in this situation. I'll start playing later tonight or (more likely) tomorrow, and then start fishing around for a bomber squad.
I just wanted to see how bombers were treated in the game. In WWIIOL, they were not very well respected. In a community of thousands of players, we probably had about 20 dedicated bomber pilots total (for both sides).
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I finally left ww2ol because I have never encountered a game with so many bugs and loopholes in my entire life (Other then windows, that OS is a joke not a game). I was allied in the BEF, only thing I really cared about then was the ground aspect. Finally got fed up and came back to AH, never going back to ww2ol again.
When the ENY values were set for limiting aircraft, most of our squad went to ww2ol. But after a while, most came back since they hated that game with a passion for the reasons stated above. Theres a few of them still there, but they are not interested in coming back :(
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Okay.. here's my version of answers. I hope you can take it as another set of differing opinions. I've tried to keep it as objective as possible.
1. Are there bomber squads in the game?
- Yes.
2. Do bombers have any kind of impact on the game? Does bombing an airfield or town result in anything?
- I'm sorry to say 'not really'.
The basic strategical model of the game is kept pretty simple. The Main Arena doesn't really have a 'sophisticated' economical model which controls overall situation of the war. There are map objects such as factories or refineries, but hitting them on the long term isn't really as effective as it might sound. This game is farely deep into the tactical part of aerial warfare, and this limitation comes from the fact that AH started out as a very small-scale tactical simulation, where the "warring environment" was never really meant to be more than just a "spice" to the aerial combat aspect of the game.
Therefore, the bombers in the game bear a role which more resembles that of a large-scale tactical jabo, rather than a true strategic bomber.
However, the good news is HTC is currently working on a revolutionary new format of MMO gameplay which combines historical roleplaying with aerial combat simulation. It is now entering a closed-alpha phase of the testing, and many AH gamers are eagerly waiting its arrivial.
I'm pretty confident that when that new format arrives, there will be plenty of large-scale strategical raids reenacted in the skies of virtual Europe.
3. Do people coordinate to form bomber flights that are escorted by fighter pilots, or is this game more of a "free-for-all" type of game where you have to fend for yourself most of the time?
- It is definately more 'free-for-all'. However, there are regular scenarios and events in which players reenact historical events, where cooperation and planning is done one a massive scale.
4. Is it possible for mutiple people to crew the same aircraft? If so, how many? Is this common? I would love to be a gunner for someone to start out.
- The basic system allows maximum two players aboard a single aircraft. This applies to all vehicles in the game including planes, tanks, and bombers. With bombers a player can divide their role between the 'pilot' and the 'gunner', who has control over three bombers that form a single formation. One exception would be the ships, which multiple people can man each of the defensive posts the warships have available on board.
Having a gunner on board a bomber is fairly uncommon, as most people are eager to fly bombers or fighter planes by themselves. However, if you ask your teammates, there is always someone who needs a gunner around.
5. Can I ALWAYS fly a bomber (any bomber), or do I have to earn perkpoints as a fighter pilot first? I don't mind starting out with a "puny" level bomber and working my way up to the big boys, but I'd rather not have to invest a lot of time in a fighter plane just to spawn a bomber later on. (WWIIOL is like this)
- Unlimited - plain and simple. The only bomber which is limited by perkpoints is the Ar234 jet-bomber, for obvious reasons.
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I've played WWIIOL some and played lots of Aces High. For air combat, I like AH much better for many reasons, but I do find the flight models to have a roughly similar level of realism, so if you can fly well in WWIIOL, you'll be well on your way here. The bombsight in AH is much simpler than that in WWIIOL from what I remember.
Flying bombers in AH is a lot of fun, in my opinion. They can be very useful for shutting down bases and levelling the nearby town (which is necessary for capture), and for anti-shipping. Also, defending yourself as a gunner of your own bomber is fun.
The flight dynamics are very realistic, so the fights are realistic. In the AH main arenas, there isn't the same level of recreation of the WWII environment, though, that is present in WWIIOL -- no half-scale Europe, for example. However, this is a huge advantage if you want to get into combat without very long delays.
Then, if you want very realistic air battles (much, much more realistic air battles than WWIIOL in all respects), where bombers play a very critical role, I suggest you check out scenarios. You can get general information on scenarios by clicking on the link in my signature line.
Here are a couple pictorials involving level bombers (where I was a pilot of one):
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/downfall_2006/frame2_pictorial.html
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/stalins_fourth/frame2_pictorial.html
There are many more pictorials here that involve bombers (as just about every scenario involves them critically):
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/scenarios.html
If this looks interesting to you, show up as a walkon for the Battle of Britain 2006 scenario and see if you can get a bomb-pilot spot. If you can't and what to just check it out, sign on as a gunner for a bomber. You can get information on this scenario, too, clicking on the link in my signature.
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Brooke, thanks for the info. I will definately check out the BoB scenario.
I logged in last night and tried out the game. First, I checked out the AvA arena, as that seemed to be more up my alley (I'm kind of a historical nut). Unfortunately, nobody was on, but I used the time to figure out the radio and stuff.
I then went to the Early War arena and flew a few flights as a bomber (and one as a P40B). The action seemed very sporadic and I noticed that bombers are really only useful IF there is a coordinated attack to capture an airfield going on (which there didn't seem to be).
But I gained a few perk points and generally had a good time. I'm guessing I'll have to get in the Late War arena to see the big furballs, which is unfortunate because I'm guessing that I'll get PWNed by 262's immediately... :)
Anyway, thank you to everyone who responded to this thread. You've been very helpful! S!
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there may be a 262 around, but they usually stay the HE11 AWAY from bombers, as for 200 perks + they are expensive, and any bomber gunner worth his while can kill you instantly from 1.2k out or farther.
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The key to finding fights is to watch those DAR bars. If you cant find anybody around, then you can soemtimes provoke a response by attacking a base, or messing around in their radar range.
Another tactic you SHOULD NOT be afraid of is to choose the side with the fewest players. We call that a "target rich environment" when you find yourslef outnumbered...and if you film you're actions, you can look at them later to see how they did what they did. There's no shortage of folks who'd be happy to teach you basic combat...which is very different than basic flying.
Remember that many of these good sticks (not me) have played this kind of game for more than a decade. It takes a good while to hold your own, but you can INCREDIBLY decrease the learning curve by emailing a trainer (trainers@flyaceshigh.com) to set up a session. Learn some stuff for an hour, then do it for a week or two...when you're ready for your next dose, set up another....I wish I had done this much earlier, but like many stubborn guys I wanted to do it on my own!
If there just arent enough people on to find any fight at all (pretty rare in evenings US EST, in my experience) you CAN try another arena.
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Originally posted by Rameusb5
I just wanted to see how bombers were treated in the game. In WWIIOL, they were not very well respected. In a community of thousands of players, we probably had about 20 dedicated bomber pilots total (for both sides).
They would probably have a lot more bomber pilots if you didn't have to endure countless hours of frustration in the POS Hawk 75 before you gained enough rank to fly the allied bombers.
I say countless because after their 3rd or 4th revision of the ranking system that basically undid any seniority I had from the early days ( I had actually gained priveleges to build missions and fly bombers ) I made a couple of efforts to gain the rank and almost always encounted uber-planes that ended my missions in short order.
Not having the hours necessary to beat the odds and actually make it, I benched the game.
Was in it from the start and endured the couple years of pain.. not even able to fly as my frame rate was .3 when an enemy A/C was close ( yeah.. 3 seconds/frame ) until I got better hardware. After that, just finding a base with an airfield near the action was frustrating.. then finding a mission with a plane I was allowed to fly ( you can't just take off willy-nilly over there ) that still had planes available.
Too many frustrations for me.
I've revisited it as they have their 'Welcome Back Soldier' campaigns but I have yet to see any changes that earn it permanent space on my HD. They finally added autopilot a year or so ago.
Don't get me wrong, though.. WW2OL is ( or was ) pretty darn impressive from the soldier standpoint. I remember the immersion level was intense. The problem is, I'm not a ground-pounder. Gimme props, some wings, bombs, and boom-sticks and I'm a happy camper.
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I can understand your frustration. To be frank, I didn't intend my thread to be a WWIIOL bashing forum. The truth of the matter is that WWIIOL is a great game IF you are a GOOD fighter pilot. The rank system definately needs work. (AH does it better. I know that CRS intends to put a perk point system in place of their current rank system)
My reasons for leaving WWIIOL are not because I dislike the game, as much as I got burned out doing the same things over and over and over again.
To be honest, I'll probably end up back there at some point. In the time being, AH seems like a bit of fun, so I'll give it a whirl.
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Join a squad. I can't emphasize it enough, especially for bomber pilots. Bombing requires a decent amount of teamwork if you actually want to capture the base, have gunners, or fly with an escort.
Head down to the squadron forum and start a thread saying what you're looking for in a squad. You can also look through the existing threads to see what groups are out there, and send some PM's.