Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mugzeee on September 19, 2006, 02:29:37 PM
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NOT!!!
I been reading several post from a certain sect of people that presume the hoard is gone from AH2. I have flown LW and EW during peak times enough now to get a feel for it. And i have seen the hoard plenty. Albeit the hoard is less players, it is by proportion the same ratio.
In the EW it's a different feel with things happening at a slower pace. But the numbers still accumulate in one place. These 1v1s yall claim to be so abundant are few and far between when the EW is at or near capacity.
Just two nights ago the Bish were hoarding at A60 A61 area. Eventually the Rooks responded and we had a good battle. The Bish won out in that battle because of numbers mostly. The only difference in this example is that in today’s EW arena things happen sloooooooowwly.
Last night in the LW1 arena the Rooks hoarded against the bish in the same ole fashioned way of the old MA. Once again we see that the players flock together.
This is never going to change, for it is human nature. To think that it will is foolish.
The following is an interesting reply to an idea Midnight had some time ago.
Originally posted by hitech
Thanks a lot for the idea midnight. Obviously you have put some thought into it.
But have a few issues.
1 Im becomeing more convinced perks are not the way to balance the arena.
Primarly because it is not fair to new users. And the perk system is realy desiged to limit the choice of each user as to how often they can fly some planes. When you try make it a balancing issue you suddenly have created a big economic system And where it would lead becomes very unpredictible results.
2nd your idea of reseting all to 1000 would create a huge cry from those who have been saveing perks. Next it would remove the goal of the new guy to want to to earn points to try out the 262.
3rd with this "use a local multiplier based on a 4 sector area" you suddenly are complety changing the issue at hand.
Basicly I am not against consentration of forces in the arena. That is a very valid war tactic and infact it is a fundemtal doctren that the attacker must have a numbers adavantage. When all sides are equal each country has the choice of how to allocate there forces i.e. in a group to go on attack/ or spread out/ how ever they wish. I do not see this as an issue. With a country imbalance 1 country could still dominate 2 different 4/sector areas while the others putting up adefense would have the same limitations as the large country but only in 1 area, and hence you are back to square 1. More numbers in a country would still be an advantage.
The issue is all about country balance not consentration of forces.
And to put it simply, fairly equal numbers between sides makes a better a game and is lot more fun for every one. I realy can not think of one game either board game/sport/computer game any type game where each side is not equal. It apears to me to be a fundimental game concept.
HiTech
Last night in the LW1 around 10:30 PM, Rooks 36 Bish 18 Knights 12. I have seen the same imbalance in the EW several times already.
Looking at the evolution of AH2 over its existence, we clearly see an effort to "Balance" sides. First we got the perks. Next it was an ENY limiter. And now we have the current setup. The efforts have worked to some degree but it is far from balanced now, or then for that matter.
Without actually deciding for the player which country they will fly for, or what area of a given arena you will fly in, you will never be able to balance the sides...ever!
While many online games implement an auto balance system, (Deciding what team you will be on at login to balance the teams) this certainly wouldn’t work for AH2.
Seeing that a lot of players feel that switching countries to balance sides at will, would be a good idea.
Why wouldn’t it work?
Because of the cries that players would have about not being able to fly on the same team or arena as their squad mates or buddies?
How would this really be so much different that what we are doing now? (Player caps and all)
The current ENY limiter only dictates what we fly and (Contrary to HT’s propaganda Sorry HT,) has done very little to balance sides or game play for that matter. We still saw huge imbalances in the old MA. A given country would roll the other by shear means of numbers regardless of what plane’s they had to choose from. We are already seeing imbalances in the new arena format of 2 to 1.
I still reflect on the Zone system and see it as a viable solution to balance the sides and control the numbers in a given area of the arena. By nature it is much more subtle and just as effective. I believe this system would ( IMO, based on seeing it at work in another game) allow for a much smoother transition towards side balancing as well as game play balancing by.
1. Not rewarding a country with superior numbers by way of letting the majority of them attack in one place could go a long ways to balancing sides. Because in effect you prohibit them from benefiting solely by way of a numbers advantage, thereby making-switching sides seem more appealing.
2. A zone system by nature addresses the hoard in any given area of play from the onset.
edit. I mistakenly stated that we were in LW1 when in fact we were in LW2.
Thanks for the heads up Hondo
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I haven't seen the same thing you have and I have been playing more lately than I have in years.
I never wanted 1v1 fights tho... I want 1v2 or 2v3 or 5v7 or 5 v5 or whatever... I want a furball that you have to keep track of more than 1 other plane. I have found that I ahve about a ten times more likely chance of finding some spot in EW where a good fight is...
Also... there is no real runway diving or "high cap" vultures at the fields... all slum behavior in my opinion... do that in EW and you are asking to get whacked... no risk free behavior.
I will say that the current map is really bad and should be modified with closer fields or removed.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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since the split i have not tried any arenas except early war.
i love this game still, possibly more.
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Fights seem more even and challenging now.
Especially in the EW.
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the horde may be down but it's certainly not out. the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight. it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist. fortuitously there is a solution. it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight. last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.
after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.
then it became evident why. the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.
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^^^ LOL
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well they can now go to an unpopulated area in an unpopulated arena and take bases..hopefully thet will find out it aint fun unless someone trys to stop you
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Yes the hoard is still there but there is a huge difference between a 40v40 hoard fight (old MA) and a 10v10 hoard fight (new arenas).
The smaller in numbers the hoard is the more the fight evolves around the skill of the individual pilot.
The higher the numbers the more effective is the "cherry pickin lala". There is just so many planes a person can track in his head. Once that number is exceded the cherry pickers start to rule the game.
The MA hoard fights where about who was the better cherry picker.
Cherry pickin doesnt involve ACMs. In fact it discourages ACMS as all you wana do is shoot and flee.
Now that the hoard is smaller it is much more possible to track all the planes involved and hence one gets more room for ones ACMs.
I dont know maybe its just me that has a very low situation awarness since I cant keep track of all the planes in a old MA hoard furball.
Tex
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Originally posted by storch
the horde may be down but it's certainly not out. the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight. it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist. fortuitously there is a solution. it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight. last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.
after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.
then it became evident why. the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.
Ran into the same thing in Mid-war last night. As soon as a couple of us upped and shot a few down, they never returned. but moved to another undefended base.
They never even attempted to fight us, other then one poor vulch run that the guy almost augered in on. It was toolshelds at all costs.
I didn't get it, and still don't, but to each his own I guess.
That being said, the fights to be found are better and more equal for the most part both in numbers, aircraft and pilot ability.
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No-brainer work-around to the localized system that prevents hording:
The horde simply takes off from various surrounding bases and all arrive, once in the air in their ride of choice, at the single target. We did this as far back as AH1 for missions, well before things like the ENY limiter existed, due to FH down at base X, or ord down at base Y, etc.
Those same folks who engage in those types of missions will always be on the lookout for the path of least resistance, and a localized system aimed at keeping those numbers from organizing, would realistically only force them to take one additional step.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Yes the hoard is still there but there is a huge difference between a 40v40 hoard fight (old MA) and a 10v10 hoard fight (new arenas).
Tex
I guess our definition of an hoard differs. I never considered evenly balanced opposing forces to be a hoard.
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Mugzee, All I have to say is, what LW1 arena where you in last night? Rooks where out numbers 2 to 1 all night by both Bish and Knits. We had a Perk Bonus of over 3 for awhile, Temps only cost 16 and 262 were under 100 perks to fly for awhile. Just confused as to where you think you were, cause it sure wasn't LW1 arena.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
No-brainer work-around to the localized system that prevents hording:
The horde simply takes off from various surrounding bases and all arrive, once in the air in their ride of choice, at the single target. We did this as far back as AH1 for missions, well before things like the ENY limiter existed, due to FH down at base X, or ord down at base Y, etc.
Those same folks who engage in those types of missions will always be on the lookout for the path of least resistance, and a localized system aimed at keeping those numbers from organizing, would realistically only force them to take one additional step.
If said collective resources has enough fule to make the trip, then yeah.
But the idea of a zone system is to cause said players to be short on fuel by the time they make the trip to said congragation. Instead they would opt out of the long flight to fight a local battle. Thats the idea anyhow.
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Originally posted by storch
the horde may be down but it's certainly not out. the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight. it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist. fortuitously there is a solution. it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight. last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.
after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.
then it became evident why. the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.
But we still had fun after they left right? We could meet in the middle of the 2 fields without flying all that way.
Hoarding is always going to be a part of this game, nothing you can do about it exept take the attitude Storch expresses here. When confonted with a hoard, kill them.
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
Mugzee, All I have to say is, what LW1 arena where you in last night? Rooks where out numbers 2 to 1 all night by both Bish and Knits. We had a Perk Bonus of over 3 for awhile, Temps only cost 16 and 262 were under 100 perks to fly for awhile. Just confused as to where you think you were, cause it sure wasn't LW1 arena.
My mistake sir...we were in LW2 as LW1 was to near capacity for all 10 of our guys to get in.
From 9:45 PM till 11:00PM est Rooks had numbers of a 2:1 ratio. Yes i was there. I also noted the Bishop with 18 players were attacking Rooks who had 36 players at that time. I was a fun battle. Meanwhile Knights with 12 players were almost exclusively attacking the Bishop front uncontested.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
...snip....
I dont know maybe its just me that has a very low situation awarness since I cant keep track of all the planes in a old MA hoard furball.
Tex
For me, it isnt just the SA, Even with good SA, if you're in the middle of a fight with new guys ariving every 10 seconds, sooner or later one of them is going to have a kill shot. Good SA just means you see them coming!
I like the smaller fights because its now POSSIBLE to get into it long enough to see things develop. In the old MA, I learned to choose situations that allowed me to get kills quickly and with (relative) safety...since I couldnt kill FAST enough to fight in a huge mass of enemies. Now that fights are different, I'm finding more ACM deficiencies and geting more chance to work on them.
I'm also getting to know people in my arenas better...though getting to know ME might chase them out....
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I got on about 7pm PST which would be 10pm your time, so I guess when you logged off a ton of Bish and Knits logged on. Was approx. 90 bish and 90 knits and around 50 Rooks on when I logged in. Wasn't my intention of calling you a liar. Just curious if you typed in the wrong arena is all. Apperantly there was a mass exedus of Rooks and a big influx of bish and Knits at 10pm est.
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
I got on about 7pm PST which would be 10pm your time, so I guess when you logged off a ton of Bish and Knits logged on. Was approx. 90 bish and 90 knits and around 50 Rooks on when I logged in. Wasn't my intention of calling you a liar. Just curious if you typed in the wrong arena is all. Apperantly there was a mass exedus of Rooks and a big influx of bish and Knits at 10pm est.
oops apparently you read before i had a chance to edit. We must have been typing at the same time. Sorry sir many apologies. We were in LW2
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No biggie, Still love ya man. :D
Also i agree with most everything you posted btw
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
No biggie, Still love ya man. :D
Well..i guess that makes two of us then..well maybe three. My wife says she does...but?? ;) :D
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Wife understands??? About flying?? uhh yeah right :p
:aok
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Originally posted by storch
then it became evident why. the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.
WRONG!!!!!!!
They were rook bases :t
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The majority of people in this thread do not know how to spell 'horde'.
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Originally posted by storch
the horde may be down but it's certainly not out. the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight. it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist. fortuitously there is a solution. it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight. last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.
after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.
then it became evident why. the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.
There you have it.
The horde CAN be defeated.
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Actually i believe it was Shane that first used the term in AH...and he spelt it Hoard! We are just tryin to keep the tradition :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
I will say that the current map is really bad and should be modified with closer fields or removed.
I play during early morning US times, and finding a fight was no problem even with the low numbers. And then we got this map. No fightning, just people trying to sneak bases and pad their score. I hope this isn't what ew turns into because I've had more fun since the change than I've had in months.
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Originally posted by Engine
The majority of people in this thread do not know how to spell 'horde'.
The majority of people in this thread do not play the ant farm game.
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Cherry pickin doesnt involve ACMs. In fact it discourages ACMS as all you wana do is shoot and flee.
[/B]
Are you really saying that booming and zooming is not a valid ACM?
Only a handful of planes in WWII were meant for yank and bank. Most were definitely B&Z. Just about everyone but the Japanese realized the advantages of this early on.
Face it, in air combat altitude is life. Don't blame the guy up high for taking advantage of the fact that you let yourself get into a very bad situation.
I've always wondered why all the fights in AH seem to take place at under 1,000 feet and why only a handful of people religiously cling to the high ground (how I wish I had the willpower to be one of them).
PS Lazs, there is vulchin going on in the EW. My very first hop had me coming face to face with a cheatin' little ME-110 divin on the runway with cannon a blazing. Granted, after he augered he did request that we all sit around the campfire and sing "Kumbaya" in the spirit of fellowship that you keep telling us the new setup has engendered, but I passed. I was afraid he'd shiv me as I was tuning up the guitar
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baine... the bad behavior is gonna take a while to beat out of the mega squad types.
I have noticed that the mega squads have all but deserted the EW as their "tactics" don't work as well and.... people just laugh at em anyway... They are finding that when people do notice em.... it is in a negative way. and rightly so.
B&z may have been a valid tactic but a whole lot of the fights ended with acm. We aren't trying to recreate (i'm not anyway) the sheer boredom of WWII air combat with its one hour per year of action are we?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I have found that the spirit of the gameplay has improved for the most part, just look at 200 in EW or MW a lot of
and GF.
The problem is that the old MA was around long enough to influence a large number of players that only know the HO, vulch, horde mentality. Until these people see that it is unacceptable (by the communities standards) it will continue. There will always be the individual who just has to see their name in lights and will do whatever it takes to get that "bozo landed x kills" kill message.
To me it has always been about the fight be it air combat, or base capture. I have never enjoyed being part of the swarm, or milk runnin just no challenge in it for me.
Just my .02
SIK1
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I have found that the spirit of the gameplay has improved for the most part, just look at 200 in EW or MW a lot of
and GF.-SIK1
I've seen a few more, too...but I realize, that it's simply because more of the older hands are flying the EW. I'm seeing just as much trash on 200 as I've ever seen in the old MA. Just splitting into 3 arena's won't change a persons' mentality; And the additional fact is, trying to instill it through a PC monitor is only going to add you to a person's insult list. A PC isn't gonna jump up and kick the ***** out of you, for insulting somebody on ch.200, and people realize that the worst that might happen to them is a warning from HTC, or a loss of radio privileges. Nobody's afraid of getting squelched. It's not like going out in public, like a bar, or a hockey,football,or basketball game, where the insulter might get a bloody nose or a black eye. All you can do is try to use your calm and wit, show that it is a community game, and not just an AI without soul or emotion.
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The worst that happens is they are no longer playing, and it has happend many times.
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I was amazed at my first sighting of a mega skwad. I did not know that so many dweebs could be so densely packed into one small suffocating space at one time. Since the change, the mega skwads are all but dead. I wonder if the mega skwad was a prime motivator for breaking down the old MA model? I did get the feeling that the mega skwad was a giant force of perversion but thats just me :aok
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
I have found that the spirit of the gameplay has improved for the most part, just look at 200 in EW or MW a lot of and GF.-SIK1
I've seen a few more, too...but I realize, that it's simply because more of the older hands are flying the EW. I'm seeing just as much trash on 200 as I've ever seen in the old MA. Just splitting into 3 arena's won't change a persons' mentality; And the additional fact is, trying to instill it through a PC monitor is only going to add you to a person's insult list. A PC isn't gonna jump up and kick the ***** out of you, for insulting somebody on ch.200, and people realize that the worst that might happen to them is a warning from HTC, or a loss of radio privileges. Nobody's afraid of getting squelched. It's not like going out in public, like a bar, or a hockey,football,or basketball game, where the insulter might get a bloody nose or a black eye. All you can do is try to use your calm and wit, show that it is a community game, and not just an AI without soul or emotion.
Originally posted by hitech
The worst that happens is they are no longer playing, and it has happend many times.
And this is something that is good for the entire community and we all can live with. TY HT.
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On another note: If HT were ever to setup a Zone system, the maps would also have to be designed around the premise that there be gaps from zone to zone. This would aid in preventing zone overlap issues.
I know its a long shot. But i can dream.
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Hmmm...lets review what actually happened with storch and company.
BoPs logged into the only unpopulated arena...the EW.....LW1 was maxed out again and LW2 was 50 players...
BoPs had 40 players on...the bish were heavily outnumbered but with us there country numbers were about even...knits had the least.
Bish were down about 8 bases to the rooks...so BoPs using EW planes took them back....It was a linear progression and only a handful of rooks tried to stop us....best i could tell they were furballing outnunmbered nits up north. What they did do was insult us continuously on ch 200.
We finally took about 3 rooks fields in rook territory and they porked the one base with troops nearby. (it was the dumb map with the towns far away from the bases) we then took several more bases with about 5 bops on each base by driving m3s)
even with even numbers the rooks wouldnt mount any resistance.
What were the bops really doing?? we were cutting up and laughing and telling jokes on ch 200. we were having fun. we could care less about how much we accomplished vs hanging out with each other.
Bottom line is this...they (storch and the BKs) dont want to have to do anything organized...they dont want to fly against bad numbers...they dont want to pork....they just want to whine.
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I know the stream of tears is probably making it difficult for you to read, but we didn't make fun of you in this thread. That was storch, and storch's opinions are his own. He most certainly doesn't speak for us.
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first of all prey beast do not use the moniker "storch" in the same sentence with "bk" hell make it the same paragraph especially when followed by a conjunction. secondly all you guys did was die die die. while you guys were laughing the six of us killing 40 of you were doing the same thing so in retrospect if you guys have fun dying and we have fun killing, it's a good thing.
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Originally posted by storch
the horde may be down but it's certainly not out. the long on membership but short on skill squads still do their level best to grief a good fight. it's true that this is less so in the EWA none the less it does exist. fortuitously there is a solution. it's called four members of the rook team who like to fight. last night a squad boasting 90 members in their roster was stopped cold by four to six rooks who were in a fighting mood.
after watching them drop like mayflies at the end of mating season for a few minutes the area they were attacking was suspiciously quiet.
then it became evident why. the highly skilled destructors of inanimate objects had switched to attacking undefended nit bases.
Was good pickins, wasn't it? :rofl Good winging bro.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
Hmmm...lets review what actually happened with storch and company.
BoPs logged into the only unpopulated arena...the EW.....LW1 was maxed out again and LW2 was 50 players...
BoPs had 40 players on...the bish were heavily outnumbered but with us there country numbers were about even...knits had the least.
Bish were down about 8 bases to the rooks...so BoPs using EW planes took them back....It was a linear progression and only a handful of rooks tried to stop us....best i could tell they were furballing outnunmbered nits up north. What they did do was insult us continuously on ch 200.
We finally took about 3 rooks fields in rook territory and they porked the one base with troops nearby. (it was the dumb map with the towns far away from the bases) we then took several more bases with about 5 bops on each base by driving m3s)
even with even numbers the rooks wouldnt mount any resistance.
What were the bops really doing?? we were cutting up and laughing and telling jokes on ch 200. we were having fun. we could care less about how much we accomplished vs hanging out with each other.
Bottom line is this...they (storch and the BKs) dont want to have to do anything organized...they dont want to fly against bad numbers...they dont want to pork....they just want to whine.
It's they WAY you do it. Remember "Quantity does not mean Quality". We stopped you guys stone cold at 16. But what we were joking about is exactly what transpired. You went from being shut down by 5-6 Rooks at 16, to hitting and capturing undefended bases. Come on man, you probe until you get NO RESISTANCE and then you exploit it. That isn't an insult, it is a well known fact as I have been (and others) playing for over 4 years.
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Probe??
we went in a straight line til we had no troops.
you all porked trops and we had to change trgts to one that had troops nearby....
we were vulching your base until i called the guys off to start working a25 town...we took it soon after that and you all began whining about "why did we start attacking an undefended base"....ummmm..i have no idea why equal numbered rooks would insist on continuing a fight at 16..but you did...we just werent interested in deteriorating into a furball.
look you want to furball...i have never insulted you for that....go furball..i dont care. it was squad night and we were having fun...sorry your idea of fun is to disrupt ours...since we had fun past 11pm est then we were successful :aok
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and one other thing..we took over 10 rook bases...not sure how you think you "stopped us cold"? yes we ran out of a supply of troops at the end. gratz for figuring out how to prevent a base take....4 years huh?
and ill say it again KARAYA as i typed that night while you and storch were insulting us:
if you think you can beat me 1v1 then lets go to the DA...loser doesnt play for a week we can alternate planes...
you quit typing on ch 200 after i typed that..i asked several times...i am asking again so you may show me your skillz:lol
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
and one other thing..we took over 10 rook bases...not sure how you think you "stopped us cold"? yes we ran out of a supply of troops at the end. gratz for figuring out how to prevent a base take....4 years huh?
In all seriousness. What is the fun in capturing 10 bases, and apparently undefended ones at that?
I was flying Knits in MW yesterday and guys on Knits were doing it too and there were less then 100 in the arena. I asked what the thrill was, but I couldn't get an answer.
Again I'm asking seriously as I don't get what the appeal would be if there are few defending against it, and even no defense at times.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
In all seriousness. What is the fun in capturing 10 bases, and apparently undefended ones at that?
I was flying Knits in MW yesterday and guys on Knits were doing it too and there were less then 100 in the arena. I asked what the thrill was, but I couldn't get an answer.
Again I'm asking seriously as I don't get what the appeal would be if there are few defending against it, and even no defense at times.
The fun is seeing how long it takes the whiners to respond and put up said defense.
Little secret here... Undefended bases are undefended because said defenders aren't defending them. Think about it. The pendulum swings both ways.
Then we get to come here in the BBS and watch the whines that likely lead us to the current arena set up as well.
Did HT do something in the change that prevents a country from defending a base?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I know the stream of tears is probably making it difficult for you to read, but we didn't make fun of you in this thread. That was storch, and storch's opinions are his own. He most certainly doesn't speak for us.
I do hope you mean tears from laughter...because it was stortch doing all the whining.
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The BK's, who rarely have anyone on, at most maybe 3 or 4 guys, are the cause of all problems in the game.
Thanks for giving us so much credit.
;)
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I was referring to all the panic posts where there was no end of trembling fingers and threats to cancel their accounts... which, incidentally, never came to fruition.
With regards to storch... it is what it is, but it's not my problem.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
The fun is seeing how long it takes the whiners to respond and put up said defense.
Little secret here... Undefended bases are undefended because said defenders aren't defending them. Think about it. The pendulum swings both ways.
Then we get to come here in the BBS and watch the whines that likely lead us to the current arena set up as well.
Did HT do something in the change that prevents a country from defending a base?
So your intent is to try and get the other guys to fight? So you don't drop the VH and FHs quickly so they can up? You just flatten the ack and the town so you can take it but you hope the other side races up after you've set up the vulch pattern? Help me here. How is that fun again?
I wasn't whining about it, as it's certainly your dime. I was seriously curious as to the appeal.
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I went intpo EW last night and started film right from the start. Though i would experience this kinder gentler EW arena for meself. Started film as soon as i logged in.
I waited for things to load up and uped an F4F..only to be attempted vulched by a 109 and a 110... 3 times in a row. :D
They did manage to kill me but not on the runway. (303s and all)
Finally got off the runway and went a lookin for a fight. Found a high 109 and waited for him to come down. He did eventually.
Started to set up the overshot and he bit on the bait...which ended in a nice rolling sissors fight untill he knew he was had.
He opted for the "Extension" (Ran) outa icon range.
As i started to head back to base a 109 returned witha Pee40.
Pee40 jumped me with the 109 not far behind.
I Caused the overshot on the pee40 and cut him in half... Now i had a 109 and a hurri on me six. The shortly skint me hide.
Though to me self...Just like the old MA cept it took 45 mins for all this to transpire! And i was heading right for the fights, not wasting any time :rofl
Was aboring experience overall.
The surprising part was the Attempt at vulching me 3 times in a row.
NOT!!!
No surprise at all. perfectly expected.
Tonight i logged on in EW and started film again...withing 30 seconds a CH200 Smack down was in full swing between 2 players soon to be joined by 2 more.
I was so surprised to see such behavior in the kinder gentler Arena. :confused:
NOT!!!
So where is the emrald city so many are eluding to we call the "Adult simulator"
I fully expect the "Slum to be in full swing IF all of the arenas max out. ;)
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funny how typed commentary about 30+ guys attacking against five or six defenders with vultching and all that other nonsense is considered whining.
the fact remains that 30 or more members of your squad showed up with greatly superior altitude and every other advantage including models with far better turning ability and fire power and yet you were easily beaten down and taunted for it. I don't recall typing or seeing a single rook whine. there were a few rook taunts though. ask any player on the rook team if they have ever heard me ask for my six to be cleared in a fight. I purposely look for big red dar bars that have little or no green to fight in then I jump into inferior cartoon planes to go play. I'm under the impression that by doing so I might have the opportunity to learn and to also improve my game.
the minute you fellows saw that you could not prevail even with your horde, much to your credit you went and enjoyed "success" ( this liberal use of the word causes me to laugh) against other offensive cartoon buildings elsewhere.
what perplexes me is if you are offended by players such as myself and you clearly know where I'm playing why not take it out on me?
in any event I'll agree with you that we did have fun and since by your own admission you guys had fun then I can only conclude that we are all getting our monie's worth.
just saying
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
Probe??
we went in a straight line til we had no troops.
you all porked trops and we had to change trgts to one that had troops nearby....
we were vulching your base until i called the guys off to start working a25 town...we took it soon after that and you all began whining about "why did we start attacking an undefended base"....ummmm..i have no idea why equal numbered rooks would insist on continuing a fight at 16..but you did...we just werent interested in deteriorating into a furball.
look you want to furball...i have never insulted you for that....go furball..i dont care. it was squad night and we were having fun...sorry your idea of fun is to disrupt ours...since we had fun past 11pm est then we were successful :aok
I never porked anything that night. We weren't whining at all, just laughing that undefended Knight and Rook bases were being captured. If that is YOUR idea of fun, then......great. I enjoy a challenge is all. Milkrunning for me isn't fun. There never was an "equal amount of Rooks at 16". 5-6 Rooks stopped you guys in your tracks at 16.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
I went intpo EW last night and started film right from the start. Though i would experience this kinder gentler EW arena for meself. Started film as soon as i logged in.
I waited for things to load up and uped an F4F..only to be attempted vulched by a 109 and a 110... 3 times in a row. :D
They did manage to kill me but not on the runway. (303s and all)
Finally got off the runway and went a lookin for a fight. Found a high 109 and waited for him to come down. He did eventually.
Started to set up the overshot and he bit on the bait...which ended in a nice rolling sissors fight untill he knew he was had.
He opted for the "Extension" (Ran) outa icon range.
As i started to head back to base a 109 returned witha Pee40.
Pee40 jumped me with the 109 not far behind.
I Caused the overshot on the pee40 and cut him in half... Now i had a 109 and a hurri on me six. The shortly skint me hide.
Though to me self...Just like the old MA cept it took 45 mins for all this to transpire! And i was heading right for the fights, not wasting any time :rofl
Was aboring experience overall.
The surprising part was the Attempt at vulching me 3 times in a row.
NOT!!!
No surprise at all. perfectly expected.
Tonight i logged on in EW and started film again...withing 30 seconds a CH200 Smack down was in full swing between 2 players soon to be joined by 2 more.
I was so surprised to see such behavior in the kinder gentler Arena. :confused:
NOT!!!
So where is the emrald city so many are eluding to we call the "Adult simulator"
I fully expect the "Slum to be in full swing IF all of the arenas max out. ;)
You did all this to prove some kind of point to people who have no control over how the game is setup? What an impressive display of futility.
YOU GO GIRL! :aok
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
and one other thing..we took over 10 rook bases...not sure how you think you "stopped us cold"? yes we ran out of a supply of troops at the end. gratz for figuring out how to prevent a base take....4 years huh?
and ill say it again KARAYA as i typed that night while you and storch were insulting us:
if you think you can beat me 1v1 then lets go to the DA...loser doesnt play for a week we can alternate planes...
you quit typing on ch 200 after i typed that..i asked several times...i am asking again so you may show me your skillz:lol
I continued typing, I never stopped. Cut the facade.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I never porked anything that night. We weren't whining at all, just laughing that undefended Knight and Rook bases were being captured. If that is YOUR idea of fun, then......great. I enjoy a challenge is all. Milkrunning for me isn't fun. There never was an "equal amount of Rooks at 16". 5-6 Rooks stopped you guys in your tracks at 16.
indeed and as you posted earlier it was great fun. I enjoyed winging with you. it was very competent and effective work. to the other rooks players with us defending A16 on 18sep. it was one of those fights that I hope for every time I log on.
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falcnwing I responded to you regarding your invitation and you said you were busy having fun with squad night. I asked you again last night and you ignored me. I don't have anything to prove but if you want to go to the DA just say when. K is correct we continued interacting with you the whole time. it was funny really. I apologize if you took it personally I was sort of throwing verbal elbows in a game of six on one, even though I was scoring.
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Ummm.....karaya then when shall we meet to DA? if i missed your reply then please allow me to see it here.
Storch..i never challenged you to to DA...when we were initiially attacking 16 and you guys were vulched and up in m16s you did ask me to DA...and i did reply as you said,,,the Karaya challenge was about 1/2 hour later after incessant whining.
Here is a tip....MAKE SOME FRIENDS....FLY WITH THEM....LAUNCH OUT OF AIRBASES AND KILL PEOPLE NO MATTER WHAT THE ODDS..LAND EM AND CONGRATULATE EACH OTHER...its more fun then taunting on ch 200...you may develop the respect i think you are looking for.
i die alot..many times against terrible odds...i defend hopeless bases...i just dont get on ch 200 and look like an idiot by yelling at guys who are "too organized".
We hit the rooks because they had superior numbers ...the knits were hopelessly outmanned...im glad you guys upped resistance..more fun and more kills...nothing worse then capping an abandoned base.
but dont pretend 5 rooks halted our advance with superior skill...we had the town ded and the one goon got kilt and a clever rook porked the troops...well done indeed...exactly how i would have played it. to that rook...it appears fromyour respnse you didnt know what actually stopped us and that is too bad. you should have been congratulating that guy on country ch instead of looking like a dork on 200:lol
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sooooo.. what you are saying is that... if there is any opposition... you can't take a base with the tools you have?
I hate whordes... they have ruined the game and made it so that there is no community for those in em except each other.... they are anti community.. they won't switch to help gameplay..
Their best moves are against Ai and not other players... their "community" is their 90 buds and the ack and toolsheds and the occasional CV. They might as well be playing offline.
The BK's and others switch countries... we get to know more people... we fly with em and aginst em. No mega whorde squad could ever do that...
You guys are in a self impossed rut... that's ok.... it's just that the rest of us don't want anything to do with it.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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what ever trips your trigger falcnwing. given the way your squadmates die in synchoronous leads me to believe you need those huge numbers. then again I might be wrong there may truly be some genious to your game play. I thought I held the patent on stylistic augering, you fellows put me to shame.
come back with all 90 BOPs. let's see if we can round up 15 rooks to stop your well oiled toolshedding machine. this time repeatedly.
personally I don't think 180 of you have what it takes.
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yep... I think everyone can see that the reason they are so upset is that they really can't play any kind of AH without an overwhelming advantage...
Their whole style of gameplay is based on them having the overwhelming advantage and they both defend and deny that behavior in every thread...
strange stuff....
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... I think everyone can see that the reason they are so upset is that they really can't play any kind of AH without an overwhelming advantage...
Their whole style of gameplay is based on them having the overwhelming advantage and they both defend and deny that behavior in every thread...
strange stuff....
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
a third person who is seeing the light.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
a third person who is seeing the light.
Lazs ... is the "light" ... ;)
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as in "weight" no doubt
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just my 2 cents......
1) LEAVE THE SQUADS ALONE
2) Increase the arena CAP
3) Fix the ENY settings or do away with them all together.
Of all of the threads that I have read, this is the overall solutions that most people want.... if you can get passed all of the mud slinging, trash talking, insults, etc.
Small and large squads are what make this game fun. For those that dont want to join a squad, that is your choice, but the vast majority of us have... and want to keep it that way.... Some squads dont mind changing countries, but some (ours included), dont want to.... however with the way the game is currently set up, its actually being discussed..... its just sad that its came down to this.
Again, this is just my opinion.....
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Originally posted by storch
as in "weight" no doubt
:t
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Some squads dont mind changing countries, but some (ours included), dont want to.... however with the way the game is currently set up, its actually being discussed..... its just sad that its came down to this.
Yup ... just imagine if your squad and others had taken this into consideration before ... "however with the way the game is currently set up, its actually being discussed" ... and tried to do something about "balance" without HTC now having to intervene to get people/squads to start thinking/talking about.
2) Increase the arena CAP
Check out my thread ...
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187937
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Gameplay
Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High. The arena terrain is divided into three countries, with each country starting with an equal number of fields, towns, cities, task groups, and a single headquarters for each country. All countries have an equal amount of territory at the beginning of a war.
The map is broken up into zones, with each zone having an master field. The master field controls the ownership of the factories which supply all other fields in the zone.
When a master field is captured, the factories will supply all fields in the zone owned by the capturing country. Each country has a primary zone which contains the country HQ, and this zone cannot be captured.
hap
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Wow lazs..try to read...
we didnt have troops....only reason we didnt take the base...
we used the exact same airbase we used to attack 16 and took the next base because we could drive an m3 there...darbars were equal....the base fell..they were too busy typing to adjust their defense one field to the right..i can undersatnd why their best defense remains typing on ch 200 =)
i have never seen a few guys who had equal roster numbers so happy that a base didnt fall after 7-8 had and another did right after...maybe you should try to find an objective in the game....BTW ghi stops base takes alone all the time:aok :lol
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wow falc... have you ever considered that you and your mega squads may simply be....
insignificant?
Maybe the reason that you get so little opposition is because, all the people who like to whorde as a gameplay feature are allready in a mega squad?
And why not? I mean, nothing stops people who think like you from being one of you.... you will take anyone with a mouse and an ant like personality.. you allready have anyone who would enjoy that type of gameplay.
That no on opposes you because... besides you and a few other mega squads... no one cares if you take undefended bases? If you win the war... Who cares? It resets... no one remembers your effort... your individual efforts (if they exist) are lost in the whorde...
Other whorde mega squads with as restrictive country switching rules are are busy avoiding your whorde and taking undefended bases of yours... it is a hamster wheel that only you and a few others are interested in...
Think about it..... you don't meet any opposition because no one really cares if you take fields and.... a whorde is no fun to fight... you run if you meet opposition so why "organize" to fight you? You are no fun to fight... more fun to just find somewhere you aren't...
Think about it... you come to us... we don't come to you...
5000 or more players and those who would put up with your style of gameplay are numbered in the hundreds.... you are the minority... most everyone else simply avoids you except on rare occassions when there is nothing else to do or... new guys taking off from the fields you are whording.
You try to legitimize this behavior by both dennying that you do it and bragging about how well you do it in the same breath.
The more you defend your position the more people see what you are.
The rule of no changing countries takes the cake tho...
Why won't you allow your people choice? what are you afraid of?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Zone limits spread game play....its not a theory............ its been done and it worked................ it spread game play.
but
when there is a side imbalance some folk (on the bigger side ) have to travel further.
but
they can split up squads trying to launch from the same field.
but
if the mission planner design is not "interfaced" with the zone limit missions can get wrecked
but
they are a waste of time in arenas with low numbers and misbalanced sides
fighter towns would have to be in the "master zone" (a group of fields free of limit)
however
(IMO) they are better at gameplay and side balancing than anything we currently have
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Originally posted by lazs2
5000 or more players and those who would put up with your style of gameplay are numbered in the hundreds.... you are the minority... most everyone else simply avoids you except on rare occassions when there is nothing else to do or... new guys taking off from the fields you are whording.
You dont dont know this................... anyone could argue that the majority of "subscribers" have natural sheep/horde tendancies and indeed it is the vocal "experten" who are the minority..............they would not know this any more than you but they would be equally credible.
You may argue the purity of your cause but do not assume it is held by a majority.
Hordes feed from and grow from pack/herd instincts they are faceless and do not lend them selves to growth of the individual.
They are the orcs, the borg, the body snatchers, their natural order is that of the ant or the locust.
They graze they do not hunt.............
They are even harmless if left alone.............
unless they find a leader............ and then they get organised
and the tool they use to organise themselves is??????
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lasz, I have a question for you...
5000 or more players and those who would put up with your style of gameplay are numbered in the hundreds.... you are the minority...
Where are the other 4,250 that don't fly 6-8 hrs. a day in U.S. time? I would think that every single server would be full almost every day, If we had that many active accounts. This isn't an attack; I was just curious as to where you got that number.
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Originally posted by lazs2
wow falc... have you ever considered that you and your mega squads may simply be....
insignificant?
Maybe the reason that you get so little opposition is because, all the people who like to whorde as a gameplay feature are allready in a mega squad?
And why not? I mean, nothing stops people who think like you from being one of you.... you will take anyone with a mouse and an ant like personality.. you allready have anyone who would enjoy that type of gameplay.
That no on opposes you because... besides you and a few other mega squads... no one cares if you take undefended bases? If you win the war... Who cares? It resets... no one remembers your effort... your individual efforts (if they exist) are lost in the whorde...
Other whorde mega squads with as restrictive country switching rules are are busy avoiding your whorde and taking undefended bases of yours... it is a hamster wheel that only you and a few others are interested in...
Think about it..... you don't meet any opposition because no one really cares if you take fields and.... a whorde is no fun to fight... you run if you meet opposition so why "organize" to fight you? You are no fun to fight... more fun to just find somewhere you aren't...
Think about it... you come to us... we don't come to you...
5000 or more players and those who would put up with your style of gameplay are numbered in the hundreds.... you are the minority... most everyone else simply avoids you except on rare occassions when there is nothing else to do or... new guys taking off from the fields you are whording.
You try to legitimize this behavior by both dennying that you do it and bragging about how well you do it in the same breath.
The more you defend your position the more people see what you are.
The rule of no changing countries takes the cake tho...
Why won't you allow your people choice? what are you afraid of?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Just shows how out of touch you really are -
Squads are recognised (at least in Bishland) for their effort, whether it be a base take or field pork, whatever.
Very, very, few times up until the change were bases taken undefended, especially at prime time and on small maps.
In fact when the LCA formed some of us Bish squads made it a point to try and be at any field they arrived at, or intercept them on the way.
Can't be that insignificant considering the time and effort you put into trying to discredit/belittle large squads.
It was actually fun to try and stop the LCA's, thats gone now.
As for 5000, another figure out of the blue?
As to the title of the thread -
Nope the hoard isn't dead, it's alive and well just in smaller numbers, but ratio wise (attacker/defender) very much the same.
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5000 is out of the blue.. I would say that HT has more than the 500 or so that show up at prime time tho... I have seen rankings in the in the 2-3k range... where are those guys?
I think I made my case for the minority thig tilt. At least so far as wanting to participate in the whorde.... not that many are part of it even durring prime time U.S.
there are close to 600 on and, unless it is mega squad nite... no more than a hundred of so are milkrunning... all at different undefended or lightly defended fields.
If I were wrong.... the "missunz" would attract hundreds when announced... the potatod is somewhat forced by the leader of each mega squad... as you say... left to their own the cattle would be oblivious and graze.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I've seen rankings in the 5k range IIRC
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Originally posted by lazs2
5000 is out of the blue.. I would say that HT has more than the 500 or so that show up at prime time tho... I have seen rankings in the in the 2-3k range... where are those guys?
I think I made my case for the minority thig tilt. At least so far as wanting to participate in the whorde.... not that many are part of it even durring prime time U.S.
there are close to 600 on and, unless it is mega squad nite... no more than a hundred of so are milkrunning... all at different undefended or lightly defended fields.
If I were wrong.... the "missunz" would attract hundreds when announced... the potatod is somewhat forced by the leader of each mega squad... as you say... left to their own the cattle would be oblivious and graze.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Used to get 600+ on at prime time, now lucky to see a shade over 400, I wonder why?
Ypu, I've always wondered where the 2k-3k rankings come from also.
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I've heard it said that no more than 10% of the player base is on at one time. Take into consideration the trial players, the long timers who don't play much, and all of the current active players across the planet, and numbers in the thousands doesn't seem all that unlikely.
I notice one of my rankings, captures, is up around 3700. I have no captures, and imagine that there are more than few players who don't have captures, so that could mean hundreds of people tied for that rank?
I believe I saw over 600 logged in over the weekend. During a weeknight in the fall, I think it's normal that peak numbers are down somewhat. The problem with trying to justify or argue against any sort of change with just the arena numbers, is that that's the only figure we can see. HTC, OTOH, has access to all the numbers, all the trends, all the cancelled and reopened accounts, etc. This bbs is an overwhelming minority of the player base, whether we choose to accept this fact or not. Saying, a majority of people support idea X, without any sort of figure to validate that statement, holds about as much water as Krusty's claims.
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kev... looked to me that in prime time there were 600 on last nite... maybe not a record but... close to one. The numbers I see are allways 500 or more... about the same as before seems like.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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just logged off one player had a rank of 4185, there are indeed a lot of players now. I wonder how long before it breaks 10,000?
went in for a look in all arenas theese were the highest three in there at that time.
US7OUT2 score = 4083
Johnny70 score = 4531
CTKid score = 5065
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Massive missions when used are tools to change the point of attack..........
we will see a pair of large darbars over a certain area..........this then reaches a form of stalemate either because a mass attack has been repelled or (more often) because both sides have porked each other to stalemate and neither side can capture....................
Then missions go up attempting to gather folk to new targets usually unprotected ones in order to spring a surprise attack.................
Missions and most squads are actually tribal by instinct and behaviour.......they have (usually competant) leaders that have garnered respect through their deeds............
actually horde instinct kicks in after the mission has launched..........other members of a country follow it in for easy pickings. A big mission is a safe to follow.
The local dar bar grows to a greater size than the original mission.
A whole country does not move en masse to this new local. Horde instincts actually resist this because even within a country several "hordings" will be taking place, missions will overlap some firing off before others achieve their objective.
Hence the mountain orcs do not always co operate with the river orcs...........
The red ants do not always work with the black ants.................
Horde instincts are actually those instincts held by individuals....they feed off the group snatching defensless or defeated scraps........they garner safety in numbers and satisfaction by association rather than participation.
Equally if the horde fails, individuals can blame the group and not them selves...........for horde members it s "win win"
Horde behaviour is that of the group......an orc alone is a very nervous creature......but a horde is fearless..........confident that it can consume all.
I do not believe anyone who says he/she has never sucumbed to this behaviour we all have it within us............... some more than others
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Kev: Your evaluation is incorect.
Since the change the number of people online has generaly risen. (I even look at these numbers almost every day)
And it has deffinatly risen at peek times.
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The number has risen to experience asspain and **** of a game (we must all like pain and aggraviation)..way to go HT. If there was another place to go and fly like the game used to be I and probably alot of others would be there in a minute.
The more replies I read from HT the more I se a spoiled little rich kid who appears to be playing favorites.
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I see someone who wants to maintain and grow his customer base and add to a game that many of us, his customers, feel is the best game we have played online.
I think your post is out of line.
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Originally posted by lazs2
wow falc... have you ever considered that you and your mega squads may simply be....
insignificant?
Hmmmm. If the BoPs are insignificant, why do they trouble you so???
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pup..i don't recall askin you ******...
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lol, reread my post...the part where I said I think, if you are allowed to express your opinion how come I can't. ...love the asterisks also, very mature :aok
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jollyFE: I do not recall asking you either.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Your evaluation is incorect.
Since the change the number of people online has generaly risen. (I even look at these numbers almost every day)
And it has deffinatly risen at peek times.
Thanks,
I'm still a little 'fuzzy' after being away for 5 weeks+, but I was sure the numbers were higher.
Guess I'll find out this weekend, at least then I can definately recall seeing 200+ on each side.
Would you agree -
a) The hoard is not dead, just smaller, but the overall ratio of attack/defend is about the same.
b) Arenas are more unbalanced than ever, especially LW not so much the others.
c) ENY is wildly outta wack now.
d) Did the minimum numbers in an arena for ENY to start, lower or disappear?
Thanks
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KEV: Min number for ENY to kick in starts lower.
Anseres to others questions, read my splash in the pool post.
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Hitech
Does total # of player hours played also look good?
If I shouldn't ask this I know what to do ....wink
999000
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Originally posted by Solar10
Hmmmm. If the BoPs are insignificant, why do they trouble you so???
Bingo
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Originally posted by hitech
KEV: Min number for ENY to kick in starts lower.
Anseres to others questions, read my splash in the pool post.
Could you tell us what it is now?
Splash in pool - Couldn't find it, but remembered reading something along the lines of waves and waiting for them to die down.
I think someone correctly pointed out this isn't so much waves, but tsumanis.
Dunno, I realise you are trying to improve things, but in all honesty for the most part you have made a bad situation, worse.
Just stepped out of LW1 - B:101, R:61, K:61.
Read a post about one of the others earlier today - B:0, R:13, K:1
I hope theres a lot of tweaking and refinements in the works, because as it stands now, its a cluster.
I would sincerely hope that any refinements/tweaks do not further put any pressures on squads, this seems to be the major outcry.
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Originally posted by hitech
jollyFE: I do not recall asking you either.
HiTech
Didn't you?? Didn't you provide a BBS and a sticky thread? Just exactly what kind of customer attitude is that, mr. addink? Sycophants and others who agree with you are...appreciated. Those that disagree are...belittled.
You need an attitude adjustment.
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Kev: its either 49 or 50
rshubert: it was doing nothing but holding up a mirror to jollyFE.
Here is the sequence.
JollyFE
The number has risen to experience asspain and **** of a game (we must all like pain and aggraviation)..way to go HT. If there was another place to go and fly like the game used to be I and probably alot of others would be there in a minute.
The more replies I read from HT the more I se a spoiled little rich kid who appears to be playing favorites.
Pub
I see someone who wants to maintain and grow his customer base and add to a game that many of us, his customers, feel is the best game we have played online.
JollyFE
pup..i don't recall askin you ******...
Me:
jollyFE: I do not recall asking you either.
Or are you saying that jollyFE has the right to say things, but I can not say the exat same things?
Now I do belive I should try adhear to a hire standard then the average poster on this bbs. But there are times in my opion, that a point can be made better by other meens.
The whole point of the response was because jollyFE was totaly out of line, when he thinks he gets to post his oppion, and then when someone else post theres on the same topic he jumps in with a very rude comment,(just like mine was) to try stifle the counter opinion. All my response was doing was providing the exact same respect to jollyFE, as he was giving pup. Hence trying to point that idea out to jollyFE with the exat same response he had just given.
And I realy defy you to find me ever belittling some one for disagreeing with me. That is exatly what jollyFE was trying to do, not myself.
So now I assume you agree jollyFE post was out of line, if you do not go back and read our bbs rules. If you do agree they were out of line, lets take a look at my posible options.
1. I could just moderate the post.
Right now I under stand that emotions are higher than normal do to the change, hence I have let basic emotion type stuff in post slide some for the time being, if I would have moderated it, you probably would just say , he did it because someone disagreed with him.
2. I could have just Ignored it.
Once again i'm now accussed of not answereing questions, even thow jollyFE orignal post was not a question.
btw this is what I had decided to do untill jollyFE proped up with his responce to Pub.
3. I could have given a detailed responce .
So exatly how am I suposed to respond to being called a rich kid? And do you realy think any of my personal life should come into any of these discusions? We have stated many times our resones for making the change, the simple fact is jollyFE dosn't agree, but wrather than stating why he dosn't agree he attacks me and pub for disagreeing with him.
So now in all sensarty rshuber, how would you respond to jollyFE?
HiTech
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jolly???
Oh, I get it... It's like when someone is really really bald with one of them heads that shines like chrome and everyone calls him "curly"
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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1. I could just moderate the post. -HiTech
Yeah, why don't you try that once in a while? I suppose if there were 10 threads demonizing YOUR buddies, they'd be closed in a heartbeat. Let's see, if I start a BKs ot storch are Evil thread, let's see how long it lasts. Keep playing favorites. Shows your character.
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Actually, "civility" is an indicator of good character.
hap
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Civility went out 15,000 Laz posts ago.
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USRanger: How many post do you think there are demonizing me at the moment? How many of those have I moderated? Don't belive I have moderated any,.
I can only think of only 1 moderation I have done since the change, (might have forgot) And I moderated both sides.
And next time you quote me, please include the entire context of the single statment.
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Plz review your Rules 4,5,8, & 18. Do they not apply anymore?!? It appears not. I'm not attacking you, just asking you to enforce your own rules.
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Originally posted by USRanger
Plz review your Rules 4,5,8, & 18. Do they not apply anymore?!? It appears not. I'm not attacking you, just asking you to enforce your own rules.
I already explained why. And it is exatly what you didn't quote.
And just to be clear, you have accused me of playing favorites correct?
HiTech
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This is something that has ALWAYS bothered me, and it REALLY needs to be addressed NOW!!!!!!1.
Why is it "Ding Dong, the Witch is dead"????? Wouldn't it Flow Better if it were "Ding Dong, the Witch is gone"?????? Damit, why do the **** with me like this?
-Sik
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BTW that'd probably clear out the last 10 threads pretty well, saving you bandwidth!:D I come to the forums for info and to get the scoop on the latest happenings, not so you can let people bash me and my squad over and over and over and over zzzzzz. All I'm saying is don't play favorites. If you are gonna have rules, plz enforce them.
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I don't really know if you have "favorites", ok. I do think some people get away with a helluva lot more on these boards than others.
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USRange: Just to prove my case, rember mars01. He would typicly be on the laz side of the issue, notice he is PNGed?
My point is, your more than welcome to disagree with me, on the current relaxing of the rules.
But also please take a close look at the posts over the last 1.5 weeks, then you try do the moderation for your self. If you realy try do it fairly, which side do you realy belive would require more moderation, the people for the change, or against it.
So if your argument is, I have let the none laz side of the issue get away more than laz, I might tend to agree.
HiTech
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Which side of the fence they are on should not matter. If they (and I!) as individuals, violate the forum rules with a post. It should be moded or, if bad enough, PNGed. This is the only pc game I've ever played, so I don't know what other game forums are like, but this has degenerated to Junior High. Like I said, I come here for info, not to be bashed by some "gentlemen":lol I've never met or talked to, starting thread after thread insulting me & mine. I won't do it to others, I should be able to expect the same.
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USRanger: I agree with your concept. Put also please understand that when somthing controversial comes up like our last change if I were to ridgedly enforce the rules, I would be accused of just moderating all posts that disagreed with us.
In fact your first post on this issue.
Yeah, why don't you try that once in a while? I suppose if there were 10 threads demonizing YOUR buddies, they'd be closed in a heartbeat. Let's see, if I start a BKs ot storch are Evil thread, let's see how long it lasts. Keep playing favorites. Shows your character.
Would be moderated under the srict interpations of the rules. You attact my personal character.
HiTech
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Ranger...in all seriousness, I disagree with a lot of what HT does. But how can't anyone see that he has chosen the only fair avenue of moderation in light of all the emotion tied to the current vhanges?
HT, i you for being objective and fair.
I do however have concerns about Non related threads.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=188065&referrerid=7566
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=188107&referrerid=7566
Looks like things are certainly getting personal and out of hand.
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Mugzeee: I see the same stuff,I just don't think the timing is quite right yet , and also I see the emotions calming for most people at the moment, not continuing to build.
I.E. Once the dust settles,stronger moderation will be back.
HiTech
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Yes those are the two threads that really stuck out to me. HT, if I violated the rules w/ that post, yes, it should have been moded. 2 weeks ago, I wouldn't have said it, but now it's a free-for-all, where anything goes, so why not? Next time I'll re-word it differently. Maybe as a question? Like I said HT, I'm not attacking you, but my squad is being repeatedly attacked by the same individuals over & over with no interference. Actually, I'm glad Junior High wasn't this bad. Imagine the self esteem issues!!:) If it is too much to ask of you to enforce your own forum rules, plz tell me & I'll drop it.
Very Respectfully,
USRanger
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If it is too much to ask of you to enforce your own forum rules, plz tell me & I'll drop it.
Not to much to ask at all, just don't get in the "I demand mode" thats when things start breaking down.
And understand that my resones for not doing so also must be wieghed.
HiTech
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Ok.. I could be wrong but it sure seems to me that the guys against the change have been the most vitriholic.
If I am wrong and I get out of line.. I am sure that someone from HTC will tell me... they have in the past.
Point is... look at my posts in here.. they really haven't existed much till the just before the change and after it.
Sure... lots of posts over the year but... I realize that the general is populated with a whole lot of really sensitive thin skinned types so have pretty much kept my brand of humor and... whatever you want to call it... to the Oclub where people aren't quite so delicate.
I felt that the changes and... the way that those who felt betrayed and suicidal over it were getting away with one hell of a lot more than was ever seen before and felt that I could respond in kind... Their "sensitivity" was on vacation so far as this subject was concerned..
Even so... I think this has been healthy... A lot of stuff came out of it... people blew off steam. I even tried to duck out of one thread.. the main one... when I said that we had all shot our wad and it was getting repetitive... I was accused of not having my points refuted and not having an answer! silly...
healthy I say... the rest of the communityu is seeing what makes up the guys who have killed gameplay and....
THE RULE
I didn't make up the rule... the rule is what is making fun of your squad and your friends. your sticking to it no matter what it does to the community and you is what is making you look the way you accuse us of making you look..
you guys are your own worst enemy. (something the BK's have been accused of in the past and not without some justification I might add)
Now... you guys seem to be saying that rather than try to make things work like some other squads and one hell of a lot of individuals are doing....
that you don't care about anyone but yourselves and will never bend, even under pain of death.....
THE RULE alligence to the dildo shaped icon is more important than the other players and the community.
That is the way I see it.
I would be just as "mean spirited" to any of the mega squads that took your attitude... it is you and THE RULE that is making you the target.
I will go on vacation sunday for a week...
I think that I will slink back off to the Olub after that... I will probly not be posting here much... you can probly not hear much from me if you can get your drones to refrain from poking me with sharp sticks.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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And understand that my resones for not doing so also must be wieghed.
What exactly are your reasons for letting two threads that are only bent on squad/player bashing go? I thought y'all were worried about the unhealthiness of the game. Letting crap like that go is not very healthy for the community, no matter which squad/player is being attacked. That is where my original post about playing favorites comes from. Why should they be ok for now, with a promise of stronger moderation later? What, after another 10 threads of player bashing run their course? Just so everyone knows, I wouldn't even let a whole page of I Hate Laz threads go without griping. It's not good for anyone, especially your business. Why would someone thinking about subscribing even bother after seeing how people are treated in this game? All they would see on this forum now is a bunch of internet tough guys bashing other players on just about every thred from the last 2 weeks. Not a good way to attract new people. But what do I know, my squad ruined the game for everyone. HT, ty for responding to me.
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ranger... the thread you pointed to I did not start. I thank you for offering to defend me against "I hate laz" threads but...
I don't want or need your defence. There have been such threads in the past.. they are generaly taken in the spirt of fun.
Hell... storchita is the guy starting the thread not me and... He used to hate the BK's more than anything else in the world.... if it wasn't for you guys and the way you play... we still would be top of the list.
Look at how kind he is to us in the threads? Who is he meaner to... you or us? Look at some of the things your guys have said to me and some of the other players...
even allowing for your sensitivity... you don't seem too upset unless the insults are directed at you. Maybe I am wrong but that is how it appears.
emotions are high... some feel that they finaly got a breath of fresh air and others feel that their world has collapsed.
I would ask you to look and see that it is the ones who feel that their world has collapsed that are the most vitriholic.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I would say no member of my evil squad has ever started a thread attacking any player. Ever. No you did not start the thread(s) in question, but you sure were ready to fill all of them with endless posts of how "bad" we are. I've notice the only ones bashing us on all these threads are people that belong(ed) to the other countries. I don't remember any Bish ever saying we were ruining their game, horders or loners. In fact, I don't remember ever once running into you in'game over the last 3 or so years, ever. So how did we ruin your game? You're never even around us. We are a large base-taking squad in this game. I believe, at least on the Bish side, most squads are about taking bases. Base taking was a large part of this game. It was supposed to be. If not, there would have been 1 uncapturable base per country, with no GVs, no bombers, no bombs. I know you are a pure-furballist and we'll never agree. I just don't see why you have to make endless posts condemning my squad when we are just playing the game the way it was made to be played. You continuously cry about us hording and all that, yet I've never seen you lead/take part in 1 single counter attack or base defense. Base taking is a part of this game, pure and simple. We will continue to do so no matter who whines. That is what we are into. It is not evil. It is not something we are or should be ashamed of. It is the part of the game we like best. We are allowed that option. It is no better or worse than pure furballing, just different. Like I said, I don't remember ever encountering you, so how did we ruin your fun?
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Ok... I guess that I will never get through to you. I don't give you credit or blame you for the current state of affairs.
You guys weren't even original. It started with some joint operations by other squads. they steamrolled bases and made it kinda unfun but not the end of the world.
when it got bad was when other mega squads, like yours jumped in from other countries and did the same thing on a semi regular basis.
even that would not be bad if you guys had fought each other but that isn't what happened is it?
What happened is that you all milkran undefended or unorganized fields and avoided the other mega squad milkrunners. it was a hamster wheel supreme... if you seen an opportunity to gang bang you took it no matter what the people at the fight wanted.... if you felt that you weren't getting enough attention you bombed FH's or CV's (I say "you" in the broad sense... you were not alone in such behavior)
I see things improving and I see other squads trying to get things back on track but I see yours being stubborn and peevish...
THE RULE....
no matter how you avoid talking about it... it's out there now and it is indefensible so far as good gameplay and fairness is concerned. you won't bend for the good of the community... I happen to think that you will regret it. I happen to think it is worth bringing up when you guys make a preachy post about how good you are for a community you don't even know.
I watched some of your gameplay recently and ended up even more confused... you coulda went to another arena where there were more tools for "base capture" MW (sorry MW guys) has room....
You want to be less of a target? try being part of the solution instead of the problem or... show me another squad that is being as stuborn and peevish as yours.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Lazs. I for one would really appreciate it if you could just let the "Rule" thing die.
Reading your last 2 or 3 post's has all the makings of keeping the fire alive. Can you see that if you re-read what you type?
Is it possible to turn it off?
Respectfully
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Laz2: While I agree fairly well with your assestment.
Please stop beating your head into a wall, because I think we both agree do to the recentent changes certain things have become inevitble. So no use continuing to pushing it in there faces, you just might be slowing down the inevitble.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Laz2: While I agree fairly well with your assestment.
Please stop beating your head into a wall, because I think we both agree do to the recentent changes certain things have become inevitble. So no use continuing to pushing it in there faces, you just might be slowing down the inevitble.
HiTech
:O
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And the inevitable would be....?(For HT only plz)
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Originally posted by hitech
Laz2: While I agree fairly well with your assestment.
Please stop beating your head into a wall, because I think we both agree do to the recentent changes certain things have become inevitble. So no use continuing to pushing it in there faces, you just might be slowing down the inevitble.
HiTech
Every month I see this deduction for $14.95 for hitech creations. My total time in game over the last 15 months works out to about 37 bucks an hour.
I'm in the last cycle of a flightsimmer. HT knows the cycles. Looks as though from reading here and on other threads I might just drop back a couple of steps and find a fight.
Rumor has it, they're popping up again :aok
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Nopoop,
There have been some really great evenings in the EW. Good fights, good comraderie on boths sides of said fights; good times had by all.
However, it isn't a lock. The old behaviors that made such a mess out of the MA still rear their ugly heads from time to time. Overall though, I've very happy with the change.
The MA had pretty much choked off the old edge of your chair, sweat in your eyes, adrenaline rush fights. You can still find those in the EW now; not every night, not every flight...but they're there... and it's worth it. The trend I've noticed is that lower numbers produce more fun.
I'm thinking of trying the MW next week. Numbers are generally lower in there and I have a feeling that is a key to good fighting.
In the early glory days of AH 50-60 in an arena made for really good times. That seems to be the average in the MW so I'm going to check it out, even though the EW planeset is more to my liking.
BTW, HT, I think you should probably slide the P-38 and the Fw-190 out of EW into MW. Just my .02; the style they encourage is not a real good fit for EW.
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BTW, HT, I think you should probably slide the P-38 and the Fw-190 out of EW into MW. Just my .02; the style they encourage is not a real good fit for EW.
That goes for the HurricaneIIC, C.202, ME-109F as well. If they were introduced in the time period, leave 'em.
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Hurricane IIc-
First flew 6 Feb 41
Entered service - late spring 41
Definately EW arena.
Be much easier if they just said -
EW - 1940/1
MW - 1942/3
LW - 1944/5
No subs, no stand-ins.
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CC, Kev, my thoughts directly. P-38's and FW-190's were flying in late '41-early '42. They were P-38E's and F's, and FW-190A-3's and A-4's. The problem with the split, is that it shows how incomplete(read:unprepared) AH was for an EW arena. To be even close, you would need:
Fairey Battle.
Gloster Gladiator.
Brewster F2A.
Boulton-Paul Defiant.
Armstrong-Whitworth whitley.
Short Stirling.
Vickers Wellington.
Bell P-39D.
Boeing B17B,C,D,E.
B-25C.
Lavochkin LaGG-3.
MiG-1 and 3.
HE-111.
Do-17Z.
Fiat Cr.42.
Seatta S.200
Henschel HS-123
Ju-52
.....
I'm not trying to post a wishlist. I'm just trying to point out that we have an insufficient planeset to make EW truly enticing.
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Both our Spit IX (1942) and 190A5 (1943?) shouldn't even be in the EW arena, unless, I guess they are just there to flesh out the pitiful planeset.
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For those that don't know me, the following are just my thoughts and contributions to the topic. They are not demands issued to HTC with the business end of a credit card pointed at them.
I love EW. These are just my personal thoughts on making it better. You may agree or disagree and it won't bother me.
Anyway.
Without the success of the EW arena, there would be no reason for HTC to even consider expanding the EW part of the planeset as listed above.
Those aircraft would see little if any use in the old MA. Those aircraft would be a clear waste of resources.
Now that we have an EW there might be incentive for working on this part of the planeset.
It's possible/probable the dividing lines between EW/MW/LW will see some tweaking. Date of service is just one possible determinant. Performance (climb/top speed) is another way to sort them into reasonably competitive groups.
The P-38G (11/42) and the Fw-190-A5 (6/43) are not good fits in our present EW. Their performance clearly outclasses, by a large amount, almost every other plane in the EW planeset.
They are used primarily as energy (B&Z) fighters there and like it or not most people that enjoy the EW planeset are probably turnfighters. In short, these planes are used primarily to cherry pick the kind of fights that most people come to the EW to find. Both of these aircraft are much better fits with the MW planeset.
The Hurri II OTOH fits right into the planeset by performance standards. It's merely a competitive airframe amongst many. It's the guns that set it apart; it has become the La-7 of the EW, used by those that just want to blow through with guns blazing. I'd simply perk it pretty steeply and leave it in. (As an aside, wouldn't bother me in the least if all perks were reset to zero since we are hopefully starting an entirely new version of AH playstyle.)
As for the others mentioned:
C-202 (11/41) Leave it. Good airframe balanced by weak guns; it fits.
Bf-109F-4 (6/41) Leave it. Another good airframe, average guns and it clearly fits the timeframe of some of the most interesting (to EW fans) air battles of the war.
Spitfire IX (7/42) This is another one on the line, leaning MW. It's performance is better than most of the rest and it has very good armament for the time period. I'd probably perk it pretty high and see how that worked first. If it became unbalancing, I think it could be moved to MW without much problem.
In summation, yeah, the EW could use more EW aircraft. It seems obvious to me though that unless there is demand it would be a waste for HTC to spend the time to make them. The EW arena provides the necessary demand IF it remains a popular arena.
I think it's undeniable that most go to the EW to turnfight. As a result, I'd move the energy fighters to the MW. Clearly, the P-38G and Fw-190A5 are being used that way in the EW; move 'em out.
To control the HO-only crowd, I'd perk the Hurri IIC pretty heavily. Because the Spit V, vis-a-vis the rest of the EW planeset, borders on an energy fighter by performance I'd perk it lightly.
Just my thoughts. Feel free to disagree.
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leaving on vacation.. wrote some posts before I read this thread.
Forget about the rule. It's out there one way or the other. I won't bring it up again.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I want to apologize to HT on the BBS in public, my last post was done in public and not very professional. If I wanted to voice my opinion to HT I should have done it in an e-mail. I was just annoyed by all the posts which vilified my squad and buddies.
So HT I would like to take back my post earlier in this thread. I still don't agree with both the changes and how they were implemented, but it ain't my game so I will deal with it. So far out of the 3 arenas I have found the EW the least painful.
By the way, what number makes a horde in the new arena set up.
JollyFE
(the jolly in my name doesn't refer to my nature but my job. Combat rescue Helicopter Flight Engineer HH-60G USAF aka the Jolly Greens)
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I'd have to agree with you on almost everything, Toad. The real problem with the planeset(It was really bad in the old AvA and scenarios) Is the fact that we have later model Stand-ins for the proper aircraft.If the P-38G was in fact an E or F model, Such as what was used in N.Africa, Or the 190 was an A-3. The only thing is, we should not discount any plane's because of they're ability if they fit the time period. The HurriII is well armed, but it's not a turn fighter.If it came into service near the end of our 'EW' period, so if it belongs, unfair advantage or not, we should keep it.
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Originally posted by hitech
Laz2: While I agree fairly well with your assestment.
Please stop beating your head into a wall, because I think we both agree do to the recentent changes certain things have become inevitble. So no use continuing to pushing it in there faces, you just might be slowing down the inevitble.
HiTech
And this is?
If it's splitting large squads, or MAKING them changes sides, or MAKING them spilt across sides, I think your wrong.
If they can't get in as a whole to one arena, they'll go to another.
People ask for adaptation, best get ready for it if your in the EW or MW arenas.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Actually i believe it was Shane that first used the term in AH...and he spelt it Hoard! We are just tryin to keep the tradition :D
nuh uh... if anything, i know how to spell. and use the proper words in proper context. :aok
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The HurriII is well armed, but it's not a turn fighter.
Next time I'll proofread a little better. Meant to say It's not THAT uber.
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Originally posted by Shane
nuh uh... if anything, i know how to spell. and use the proper words in proper context. :aok
:rofl :rofl I wondered where the heck you have been. ;)
Welcome back.
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Originally posted by Shane
nuh uh... if anything, i know how to spell. and use the proper words in proper context. :aok
Where the Harr have you been?
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Harr isn't bad 3 on 1. He's not very good, either. :)