Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Neubob on September 19, 2006, 05:29:34 PM
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I'm currently trying to reconcile with my wife(I did a divorce thread a couple months back when it was at its worst). I'm 29, she's 22, we've been married for about 15 months. We've been separated for about 3 of those months, but seeing each other regularly. The cause of our problems has always been jealousy. We haven't given each other much tangible reason to be jealous, it's just in our blood. As an observer once told me, there'll always be a third person in your relationship--somebody, anybody that just by living and breathing, will cause friction. It's usually been stupid crap. She's got ex-boyfriends, whose mere existance on this planet pisses me off. I have ex-girlfriends. We never met any of each others former significant others, of course, so it's strictly imagined--which may make it worse yet. But now, the problem has taken on a bad twist. She's just informed me that it's either her, or my mother. I pick one, and quit communicating with the other ( I'm allowed holidays, but no more frequently than that). Plain and simple, wife or mom.... Thing is, I'm close with both my parents, always have been, and such a change, while theortically concievable, is impossible to visualize. Yes, I'm mad that she could even ask for such a thing, but I love her, and I'm supposed to be able to do anything for her, right?
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The cause of your problems is immaturity....by both parties.
Neither one of you are ready for a long-term, significant relationship.
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That kind of jealousy isn't healthy and it will turn love to hate in a heartbeat. Faced with that situation I'd wish her well and call it quits. Good Luck Neubob, you're going to need it either way the situation works out.
asw
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Go with Mom...send that wench down the road!!!!
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This is just me, but if you have really close ties to your family (parents) they should come first.
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If you have to do anything for her, then she should do the same to you, that's how I understood the contract. having never been married though, i'm not sure. I wish you good luck sir.
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Originally posted by Stringer
The cause of your problems is immaturity....by both parties.
Neither one of you are ready for a long-term, significant relationship.
Agreed
Consider it a blessing that you realized this just wasnt meant to be befor the years passed and children arrived.
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Originally posted by Stringer
The cause of your problems is immaturity....by both parties.
Neither one of you are ready for a long-term, significant relationship.
yup.
You both need to grow up. With each other is another matter.
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Women are horrible creatures. They can make u feel great, youll be stronger faster smarter in all ways better then you have ever been in ur life. BUt then they can make u miserable, and turn u in to garabage. Its messed up that shes making u choose, why doesnt she like ur mother? What happen that she has problems with ur mom. Another thing is she just might be a power freak and just might want to hold that over ur head. U could always say fine i wont talk to her and lie, but thats just adding more problems into the mix.
I would get a nice muscle car(black or blue camaro) and disappear. Drive away and never come back.
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Originally posted by Stringer
The cause of your problems is immaturity....by both parties.
Neither one of you are ready for a long-term, significant relationship.
I third this notion.
No way either of you are ready to be with any one person for any length of time.
You pick her and alienate your mother..... you will loose both in the (very near) end. If you are giving each other ultimatums like that, you do not belong together. Period.
Go back to the repetative routine and drama of dating and breaking up and stay close with your family. Consider a mail order bride from a heavily catholic South American nation or from the middle east where they never talked to any male beyond immediate male family members. Or speak english.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
You pick her and alienate your mother..... you will loose both in the (very near) end. If you are giving each other ultimatums like that, you do not belong together. Period.
Go back to the repetative routine and drama of dating and breaking up and stay close with your family. Consider a mail order bride from a heavily catholic South American nation or from the middle east where they never talked to any male beyond immediate male family members. Or speak english.
I'm not giving ultimatums. For that matter, I'm don't let my jealousy go to my head. It's there, occasionally, but I think twice before ever letting it affect my behavior. I try to treat her with kindness and respect, and more than anything, understanding. Yes, I do insist on maintaining a relationship with my folks. They're not perfect but they gave me life, afterall, to say nothing of everything that they've given me since.
I did envision myself with her for the rest of my life. She was always stubborn and spoiled rotten, but in my mind, I turned those flaws into qualities I adored. She was perfect. I trusted and cherished her, and believed she would grow into a wonderful partner and mother. She always had brains, if not rationality. I figured it was just a matter of time before reason prevailed.
This, however, makes my head spin. I cannot answer her because it dignifies the request. I will not ask the same thing of her because I think it's silly. At the same time, I'm horrified of losing her for good. If nothing else, the separation taught me that I don't want that.
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I don't know what you expect to hear besides what's already been posted. There's a reason everybody so far has said about the same thing.
If the two of you can't work your way through this in a civil and reasonable manner (asking your spouse to cut off contact with their parents is not reasonable) it's not meant to be.
Bail.
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Neubob,
If you stay with this woman, your life will be ****ed. Irrevocably and irretrievably. The issue has nothing to do with your mother, it has to do with your wife's need for power and control over you. Her need to control will NOT end with you cutting ties to your Mom.
Get out of the relationship, and stay out of it.
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Neubob,
We wont claim to know you...but based on what you've said and what we've all basically echo'd...we're just the 3rd party in all this. We're on the outside looking in. We cant claim to understand the emotions and such.
You asked, we answered!
I'm sure your logical mind agrees yet the heart doesnt want to acknowledge that.
We've all been strung up by some girl having a grip on our hearts who we knew just wasnt going to work out. Everyone deals with it in their own way
Good luck to you
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Originally posted by Tarmac
If the two of you can't work your way through this in a civil and reasonable manner (asking your spouse to cut off contact with their parents is not reasonable) it's not meant to be.
Bail.
I didn't expect to hear anything different. When I ask, it's not always to get advice, it's sometimes just to hear my own beliefs reaffirmed. This whole thing has caused me some grief. It helps to know that there are others out there, distant and anonymous as they may be, that can empathize and nevertheless maintain a cool head. It helps me to, as Lepaul said, let the logical side prevail. That's why I ask.
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Fair enough. I figured that's why you were asking, I just wanted to make sure you also had figured out that's why you were asking. :)
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Neubob, might I suggest a Christian marriage couselor? If the idea of a *Christian* counselor offends you, there are plenty of non-christian marriage counselors as well.
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When my wife and I first got together, we couldn't go anywhere without running into some babe I knew.
Still do, I'm very social, but she doesn't get offended by who I know. She always just smiles at them with a grin like "You had him but I kept him" type of chick thing. That is Confidence, always trumps insecurity which is the root of jealousy.
18 years now, not bad. You gotta be open enough to allow each other to actually have had a life before each other, or as posted before, move on till you find that one.
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B**ch making you choose between her and your mother? She's not worth the bruise on her bellybutton when you kick her to the curb.
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Man, that sucks. I almost went out with a girl like that once. . . We were dating and i ran into one of my Ex-GFs and said hi. Im still friends with almost all of them...im still in high school though so that may nt be to many by yalls standards...back on topic, she got all withdrawn and stuff during and after tha meeting, even after i introduced her. She wouldnt even hold my hand after that. Then on the car ride home she gave me an altimatum much like yours. said If you wanna go out with me, you will have to lose all your little friends (talking bout my friends who are girls). I thought it over for a night. I really wanted her, she was smokin hot, but i wasnt going to give up so many friendships for one girl who obviously wasnt mature or secure enough to deal such a relationship.
you just gotta weigh your options. Woman who cant cope with a guy that obviously has a life, or parents who have provided for you and will no doubt continue to provide.
Id go with tha rents...just my two cents.
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I'd tell the girl to go pound salt. You never go against mom no matter who it's for. Tell her to grow up, maybe smack her around a bit, then simply go have her cook you dinner. When I find a girl that's what I'm going to do:D
OK seriously, sounds like a crappy situation. I'd definatley tell her your not gonna stop talking to your mother though, that's just crazy!
Oh also I think Scherf is 100% right. I had a girl like that once.
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Cut the umbilical chord. You are probably unhealthily close with your mom.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Cut the umbilical chord. You are probably unhealthily close with your mom.
Just so it gets saved.
We aren't all still mad at our parents, bud.
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Haha, Golfer, you're still mad from the other thread.
Of course you're not mad at your mom Golfer, you need her to be there to comfort you when your abrasive personality runs off any acquantinces or friends you might have.
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next thing she'll tell you you're not allowed to post photo (http://www.leeshoagiehouse.com/images/abouthoagie.jpg)s of sandwiches (http://jdsaenz1.tripod.com/) on teh 'tardnet:furious :furious :furious
u--->:furious :furious<----her
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Believe this, there are better women in your future, one who wont drive you nuts or force you to choose between your family and her.
If you are fortunate enough to be close to your family, cherish that, and let her walk. Kick her in the bellybutton if she doesnt walk fast enough.
There are better babes out there.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Cut the umbilical chord. You are probably unhealthily close with your mom.
I talk to her a couple times a week. Ask her how she feels, and let her know that I'm fine. Beyond that, I may tell her an anecdote or two about my day 2-3 minutes tops. She lives 2 hours away and I visit about once every 2 months or so.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that... On the other hand, if it is too much, the woman I love could at least nurture whatever independance she thinks I oughta have--not impose it with an iron fist.
The more I think about this, the more rediculous it sounds.
Originally posted by Debonair
next thing she'll tell you you're not allowed to post photo (http://www.leeshoagiehouse.com/images/abouthoagie.jpg)s of sandwiches (http://jdsaenz1.tripod.com/) on teh 'tardnet:furious :furious :furious
u--->:furious :furious<----her
Now for that, I WILL not stand!!!
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Dude seriously, find another woman. You are wasting your time on this one, already sounds like you have wasted a year or more of your life. There are just too many wonderful women in this world to waste your time on the whackos.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
your abrasive personality runs off any acquantinces or friends you might have.
Only the ones I'd never want as such in the first place.
I won't comment further seriously on this because if you knew me in the least you'd realize how much of a jerk thing talking about mothers is...no matter how tongue in cheek.
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Now...good man Neubob. Just as long as it's never your mother-in-law you talk to several times a week ;)
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Make sure your on the phone with your mom when your kicking her out your door :D
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Genesis chapter 2:24
"for this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be united with his wife, and they will become one flesh".
no woman is good enough for me or my brother. I chose my wife when that problem reared it's ugly head. the reason for my choice was because I had sworn an oath, I stood before everyone that was important to me and before God and said she's the one. we have been married since 1977. my brother is on his fifth wife. I don't suspect she'll stick around much longer either. my brother in law is also a momma's boy, he's on wife number three. thank you Lord. I was made with strong character and have always gone my own way. I feel bad for you. you grew up in a period where women are smart etc. and men are idiots. look how we are portrayed in the popular culture.
you are 29. buck up. do you know what it means to be a man? become a man.
she had boyfriends? that pisses you off? why would that bother you if it's "had" as opposed to has?
just saying.
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Originally posted by storch
Genesis chapter 2:24
"for this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be united with his wife, and they will become one flesh".
This scripture does not imply disowning one's parents, especially within the context of the expanded family unit of the Hebrews of the time. What it states within its context is that your spouse is now your primary relationship, but not your only relationship.
Anyone who would insist that either partner disassociate themselves from their family is utterly self-absorbed and completely clueless as to the resentment such a demand will generate. What you have here is teenybopper level powerplay. I have boots that are older than 22 years. There's a lack of maturity in this lady that she wears like a badge.
Do not give in. Is she offering something in return, some sort of compromise? Probably not, and I doubt she would live up to any agreement. Bad relationships always get around to a place where one of the two makes unreasonable demands... You're there.
Define the rules, then adhere to them. If she is determined to make your life miserable, fine, move on and don't look back. If this woman actually loved you, she would never pull this nonsense.
In all probability, she will never change. Let her be some other sucker's problem. You're young and there's lots of life to be lived. Live it with someone who actually cares about you.
Staying in a relationship such as this one is destructive. I went through that hell more than 20 years ago. One day, it dawned on me that nothing was worth the grief I was getting and simply quit wasting my life. My second marriage is about as good as it gets. My wife puts me first, I put her first. After 15 years, I have a great model for comparison, and the first marriage is viewed as a transitory train wreck, but it made me appreciate what I have now. My ex has been through two more husbands and several engagements. She's still completely self-absorbed and manipulative. She completely deserves to be her....
Move on, my friend. It's not going to get better.
Here's some other scriptures to ponder, from the proverbs of King Solomon:
"It is better to live alone in the corner of an attic than in a great house with a contentious woman." Proverbs 25:24
"It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and angry woman." Proverbs 21:19
My regards,
Widewing
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You are a young man in the prime of your life, STAY SINGLE AND ENJOY IT for awhile. Going out and getting laid, or just going out again to mingle where the evil creatures hang out can do wonders... the 'rebound'.
Some girls can give you a serious buzz, once that buzz wears off and stuff goes to poop we're always trying to get back to that "buzz", all the reasons you hooked up with her in the 1st place. Sometimes when the buzz is gone, its gone forever, replaced with contempt.
Heroine addicts call chasing that 1st great high as "chasing the dragon", sometimes you catch that Dragons tail, sometimes the dragon turns around and fries your as5 with it's ugly hot breath. The trick is knowing when to dowse the flames, dust yourself off and start over.
All girls dish out copious amounts of poop, these comes a time to take a good long look at this girl and ask yourself if you want to put up with her crap forever. This time its your mom, who is next? a female boss? old friend?
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well sir neither of those two biblical references imply divorce.
every relationship is a power struggle of sorts, some in subtle ways others more overtly. on some issues you prevail, others you acquiesce.
not knowing or caring to know the particulars of the problem allows for only a general response anything else is speculation. there is another way if there is a mutual interest to save the marriage, that would be to seek professional counselling.
what WW states is correct IMHO, you both need to know that each of you places the other first. it's just like being friends don't go looking for friends, be a friend. in time if you're lucky you might have a few true ones. start with your spouse, be her friend first. as WW points out it may prove to be in vain but you did give your word and those are words a man is expected to live up to. even today a man is only as good as his word.
be a man, live up to your word. if she bails that's another story. let it be her choice.
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I see your point Storch, and as I mentioned earlier, my 'problems' with her exes are mine, and not insurmountable. I do not let them get in the way of our happiness, I deal with them, and I expect that they will be dulled by time and wisdom.
The ultimatum, however, is not the stuff of a 'wife', it is the stuff of a taskmaster. I have no problems choosing her as mate, and letting my family, slowly but surely, withdraw into the perepherie of my life--as they should by this stage of my life. I DO, however, take issue with her giving me conditions that I can either adhere to, without compromise, or go the other way. She told me that people who love one another suffer for one another. I agreed, adding, that nobody who loves another would ask him to suffer in such a manner, when so many options exist.
Yes, Storch, I stood before a huge crowd and uttered those same words. I did not, however, agree to dishonor and spit upon the second 2 closest people to me in my life. It is not even so much the fact that it's mom and dad. It is the principal, the mindset that can generate a cold, calculating ultimatum with no thoughts as to the consequences, or the magnitude.
In response, I told her I'd do it if she did it to her mom and dad. She threw it back in my face, saying 'why should I? My parents are fine.' Well, maybe they are, and maybe mine are insane. Regardless, they are the only ones I have, and at their age, given the reasonably limited contact I have with them, given what they'd done for me, throwing them to the curb is not something I will do just because I was told to, in a stern manner.
When she smartens up, which may take years, I think she will realize that a man who would comply with such an order is NOT somebody who would go on to be a good mate. By then, it will be far too late.
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Are you letting an 22 yr old spoiled brat dictate your life? you? an 29 yr old man?
You sir are whipped beyond disbelief. She know exactly what shes doing, she knows that she has you twinned around her finger, shes just trying to find out how far she can push you.
Send her packing today, or you will be her ***** forever.
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Oh, I don't think you're the first or last to go through the pangs of jealousy. It is common at your age, but there is hope in knowing that many people do grow past it to discover the peace of having someone who has no questions, or you have no questions or fears about, even for a second.
The trick is to not become a serial jealot until you're eaten alive by the poison of it so it can happen. When you find that person, you become an oasis for each other from all the insanity of the world and get to dole out advice... ;)
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neubob, the very nature of the relationship guarantees that she will try to excert dominance over you. the henpecked husband is proverbial and every woman attempts to henpeck her man. my people have a saying the goes something like once you allow a woman to get on your back you will never get her off. don't allow her to saddle up.
this does not mean shout, pout or hit. it means simply stating with word and deed that I am a man. I am the man of this house and I am the head of this family.
my mom is like any other man's mom, to her I can do no wrong and though I'm 50 and she's 68 she knows what's best for me. she lives five minutes from my home and I see her a few times every week. we entertain every weekend especially during the summer. she and dad usually visit on sunday. she is always welcome here and my wife tolerates her and behaves civilly but there is a seething tension between them that places me in the role of referee. early in our marriage my mom was openly hostile to my wife. both are strong willed assertive community minded leader type women. both are self employed and used to having their way, except with me. during one argument between them my wife pretty much expressed what yours has, I suppose it's common enough. I made it perfectly clear to my wife that while my family was now her and later our children that my mother was my mother and she was to be treated with respect and deferrence in my home. I expect my wife to treat my extended family the same I treat hers, with respect, consideration and love. my father in law came to be one of my very best friends and his passing last october grieved me deeply, not a day goes by that I don't think of him. her mom lives about 20 miles away, I see to her needs around the house, I help out with maintenance other stuff as the needs arise. I took the long way around the barn to explain that my actions in dealing with her extended family set the tone for how I expected mine to treated, in short I lead. prior to all of this after the big fight was over and on our ride home I told my wife that she would never speak that way to my mother again, that if she did she then decided that she no longer wanted me in her life and that I would take care of my obligations and move on, but that in effect she was leaving me. We laid down some simple rules and we have abided by them.
we treat each other with respect, we treat our kids with respect and we treat each other's families with respect. it's worked pretty well but it could have gone either way in the beginning.
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That Mom thing is just stupid. If your wife wants you to minimize your bonds with your own mother, then you should try to put up a similar term. I guess she doesn't realize properly what this means to you.
So, either maneouver, or disengage.
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Neubob
Your wife is being unreasonable. That's rarely a good attribute for a partner.
I could understand your wife's demands with more ease if your mother was constantly interfering in your relationship. But, even then, when you truly love somebody, you don't demand such sacrifices.
See a marriage guidance counsellor.
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Thanks for the wisdom, guys, all of you. Like I said before, it was more for the purposes of affirmation than anything else. As dumb and blind as I am, there is a limit to everything.
Again, thank you.
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Neubob....Jealousy is the worst thing we can manifest up in our minds during a relationship, and I think at one point or another we are all guilty of it...If you two deemed you loved eachother so much that you wed, I would hope to hell that any extrenal physical or mental relationship with another would not be an issue...Will there be guy's that want to have sex with your wife? Ofcourse there will be...Will it make you mad beyond belief? You beter your bottom dollar...but 9 out of 10 times you need to just let it slide, and trust in your love, and trust in your marriage...As much as I hate it when im at a bar with my girlfriend, turn around to talk to a friend, and next thing I know some dude is trying to buy my girl a shot, in the end, I know that I am the one who she is coming home with...guys are guys...I am sure we have all (knowingly, or maybe not) had conversation with a female who is involved in a relationship, where we were hoping for more...
How long were you two dating before you married? I think your wife is asking something of you that is completely unfair...No one should have to abandon their mother for their wife...If you and your mother are very close, how is it psychologically going to screw you up...What happens when your parents grow a little older, and really need you? Do you really want your kids to grow up without a set of grandparents (notice I said a set, because im sure if you had children they could see your wife's parents all the time right........)
I dont think you can even debate what to do...We are talking about your mother....The woman who has dedicated her entire life to making your world better everyday.....
What is your wifes major problem with your mother? If I were in your situation, I would ask of my wife to reconcile with my mother, and if that was not possible, then I would end the relationship
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Dont be afraid to end it if you have too...Theres just to many people who stay in relationships because they are scared of having to find someone new, and it is far better to take your chances and end a relationship, rather than take your chances and stay in an already bitter marriage....
and comeone....You are on online fighter pilot....once your single you know how many girls u can get? lmao
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Originally posted by Yeager
There are just too many wonderful women in this world to waste your time on the whackos.
However in my experience the whackos tend to be much more fun in the sack.
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Originally posted by Stringer
The cause of your problems is immaturity....by both parties.
Neither one of you are ready for a long-term, significant relationship.
Perfection here. Couldn't agree more. My added advice, do NOT reconcile.
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Originally posted by cav58d
What is your wifes major problem with your mother? If I were in your situation, I would ask of my wife to reconcile with my mother, and if that was not possible, then I would end the relationship
I have asked, but it's never worked. Even before they ever met, the wife was convinced that they(my parents) would hate her. It was a fear that she constantly told me about. Of course when they did meet, almost a year after Irina and I got together, Irina, the then future wife, took every sign, word, gesture and joke to mean that they do, in fact, despise her. They never dispised her. They showered her with gifts, tried to become friends with her, drank withher, laughed with her...no matter, everything they did was somehow underhanded. One time, I remember, after visiting them at their home, my mother tried to give us some food to take home with us. I didn't hear the end of it. It was as if my mother was trying to invade our lives, take charge, subjugate the wife, take over her roll, everything. She as just trying to give us food. My mother, besides being that, is also a grandmother to my nephews. She does stuff like that, and I value it. And if it's not valued, it should, at the very least, be taken for what it is, and not read-into fifteen layers deep. Nevertheless, that was a slap in the face, and so were countless other acts. The bottom line--the ideas that Irina had to begin with never changed. She just found ways to reinforce her beliefs. She's a master of convincing herself that she's right, and there's no way to convince her otherwise.
I definitely tried to make her happy. Made the phone calls more rare. Made the visits more seldom. Nothing was enough. Nothing short of a total break. At that I draw the line. Again, not even so much because I need my folks or they need me, but because the request is not indicative of the love and respect I think I deserve from her. I would never ask her to ditch her folks, as idiotic as I find them to be sometimes, I understand that they are unique and not to be trifled with. Incidentally, her contact with her parents is at least 5 fold what mine is with my folks. It can be irritating, occasionally, but, at the end of the day, I'm glad she has that much more love in her life.
At this point, my mother is a fascist who's bent on destroying me, my marriage and my wife's sanity. They haven't spoken in months, and yet the evil that my mother, my entire family, for that matter, represents, grows daily. Irina's brain is in the process of nuclear fission. The chain reaction has begun, it's heat and explosive potential is growing by the nanosecond, and there's no stopping it.
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Perfection here. Couldn't agree more. My added advice, do NOT reconcile.
Well, as far as maturity goes, I'm not about to vouch for my ageless wisdom. I have a ton to learn, without a doubt. I dealt withmy jealousy and, for the most part, tamed it. Nevertheless, I didn't make ultimatums, I didn't resort to blackmail. All I asked for was peace, for which I made plenty of changes, both inside my mind in my life as a whole. Was I ready for this? Perhaps not. I doubt that most people are ready for marriage when they engage in it. It is something you grow into, to a certain extent. Make all the conclusions you want in this regard, but the issue here is an untenable situation brought on by an unacceptable request. My major fault here was my inability/unwillingness to make the choice I was asked. If that's immature, then so am I.
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BTW, did I mention that she owns a Chihuahua?
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Chihuaha alone means you need to move on.
I still think there's something more you're not telling us. You only talk to your mother a few times a week, for 2-3 minutes, and that's too much for your wife?
Either way I echo the others in this thread. You need some time alone, preferrably doing something productive that will keep your mind busy. It's easy after a separation to start forgetting the bad and aching for the good.
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Originally posted by Engine
Chihuaha alone means you need to move on.
I still think there's something more you're not telling us. You only talk to your mother a few times a week, for 2-3 minutes, and that's too much for your wife?
Either way I echo the others in this thread. You need some time alone, preferrably doing something productive that will keep your mind busy. It's easy after a separation to start forgetting the bad and aching for the good.
No, Engine, apparently 1 time a month is too much. Whatever information I'm withholding is just detail describing just how ugly it got, and to what depths the both of us sunk trying to bring this absurd problem to some resolution. I am certainly guilty of trying to defend my parents' intentions towards the wife. I should not have been defending anyone, ever. For once she became convinced of their guilt, the decision is final and without potential reprieve. Any defense was tantamount to treachery on my part, for which I am now paying.
As for time alone, doing something productive. I think my status as a first-year law school student gives me plenty of distraction from everything. I currently live alone, I go to class, study 4-6 hours a day on top of that, and, in my idle time, talk to you guys try to make sense of the rest of my life. All things considered, I have little to complain about.
Things could always be better, but they could also be far worse.
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This whole, "lovelife advice from the intarnets", thing is kinda silly. Sad too, but mostly silly.
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Personally, I would have countered with your own ultimatum.
It's been my experience that they'll never accept yours, so you basically put the ball back in their court.
Something like "Ok, I won't talk to my mom ever again, as long as you sex me up every day"
As a BDG (Bitter Divorced Guy), I have to say I'm pretty sick of the BS that most women think they can get away with. My personal favorite is when they make you a "list" of things they want you to do around the house...
...for some reason, they never like the "list" I give them back of stuff I want them to do in the sack! :D
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Is your wife's last name LaFave?
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I'm going to need to see some pictures before I can give proper advice. (Not your mom sicko)
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Tried telling mom to mind her own business?
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Neubob,
Have you two seen a marriage counselor yet? If not, you need to before you write this off. Believe it or not.. there are going to be times when just because you and her don't have a solution for something wont mean there isn't an answer.
I think it was Saint Augustine that said "Treat every man as if his heart is breaking because it probably is".
It sounds like your wife is in emotional pain because of an issue that you have no idea about but might have a chance to be identified and fixed.
She might not feel like the primary woman in your life... or she may feel like you mother doesnt think she is good enough for you and doesnt know how to handle those feelings? Of course that doesnt mean you or your mother has done anything to make her feel that way... but she may feel that way none the less because of some other issue. This is something that a conselor might be able to identify and help bring to light so it can be addressed.
There is a REASON that she is having this problem so don't just put a label on her like "she's nuts" or "she's this or that" so you can justify saying "Oh well I tried" and give up on your marriage... you have expressed that you love her... Use your head or an experts head/experience to see if you can find out where this is really coming from. You made a vow of for better or for worse.. see a freakin doctor first for goodness sake.
It could just be immaturity... but if she doesnt defeat whatever demon it is that is making her feel that way now... she will have to later or always let it own her. That goes for you too. If you don't kick the jealesy issue.. in your own head... you'll have to later or you'll always have to fight it.
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Originally posted by Neubob
Plain and simple, wife or mom.... Thing is, I'm close with both my parents, always have been, and such a change, while theortically concievable, is impossible to visualize. Yes, I'm mad that she could even ask for such a thing, but I love her, and I'm supposed to be able to do anything for her, right?
WRONG
As my father would say
"ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR (*%()#)@ _@ MIND??
If she asked you to blow your brains out. or run your arm across a running tablesaw. Would you because you loved her and should vbe able to do anything for her??
No. Why? because its unhealthy for you.
Same thing. Its unhealthy for you.
Shes a control freak. Do not walk. Run I say RUN as fast as you can. As far as you can now.
Anyone who realy cares about you will never seek to seperate you from those you care about
I dont give a damn what kind of relationship it is. This is wrong and just plain unhealthy
Typically a control freak will not start out that way. And will usually seem like and all around good and caring person.
But eventually and gradually over time will seek to gain more and more control over you. Limiting gradually what you can do and whom you can accociate with.
Usualy starts with friends first. typically but not always under the guise they arent any good and will always point out the bad parts or parts they dont like. Often claiming THESE people ar seeking to control you.
Thhen they move on and on eventually trying both overtly and covertly often working both sides to seperate you from your your family.
they will work on your mind in subtle ways so as to make you see these people as being unhealthy for you untill you actually start to beleive it or worry that if you dont leave these people this person will leave you.
By the time you realise your trapped. your trapped.
I know someone else very dear to me headed down the same path and about to make the same mistake.
I doubt they will listen and the cost in the end will be high.
Get the hell out while you still can.
You can replace the girlfriend. Nobody can replace your family
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http://www.nomarriage.com/
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Originally posted by Rameusb5
Personally, I would have countered with your own ultimatum.
It's been my experience that they'll never accept yours, so you basically put the ball back in their court.
Something like "Ok, I won't talk to my mom ever again, as long as you sex me up every day"
As a BDG (Bitter Divorced Guy), I have to say I'm pretty sick of the BS that most women think they can get away with. My personal favorite is when they make you a "list" of things they want you to do around the house...
...for some reason, they never like the "list" I give them back of stuff I want them to do in the sack! :D
Brother.
Your a genius :aok
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Telling mom to mind her business was step one. We're about a hundred steps past that now. Did the marriage counselor bit, which calmed things for a while, but only for a while. I would be more than willing to try again, if she were open to the idea. At this point, her mind is a closed vault, with all views utterly solidified. Regardless,I will see her this weekend, and will try to bring up the idea. Her usual retort of 'what's the point', will require some new and imaginative answers.
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Originally posted by Neubob
I'm not giving ultimatums. For that matter, I'm don't let my jealousy go to my head. It's there, occasionally, but I think twice before ever letting it affect my behavior. I try to treat her with kindness and respect, and more than anything, understanding. Yes, I do insist on maintaining a relationship with my folks. They're not perfect but they gave me life, afterall, to say nothing of everything that they've given me since.
I did envision myself with her for the rest of my life. She was always stubborn and spoiled rotten, but in my mind, I turned those flaws into qualities I adored. She was perfect. I trusted and cherished her, and believed she would grow into a wonderful partner and mother. She always had brains, if not rationality. I figured it was just a matter of time before reason prevailed.
This, however, makes my head spin. I cannot answer her because it dignifies the request. I will not ask the same thing of her because I think it's silly. At the same time, I'm horrified of losing her for good. If nothing else, the separation taught me that I don't want that.
Here is your problem in a nutshell:
"I trusted and cherished her, and believed she would grow into a wonderful partner and mother."
You dont hope someone will grow into a wonderful partner.
If she isnt a wonderful partner now then you have picked the wrong person.
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Neu...Your obviously a bright guy, to have made it into law school....
Do yourself a favor, and re-read all the post's you have put on here, and how you describe your wife....
Is this really the type of person you want to spend the rest of your life with???? First it's your family....What's next? I dont know if your a religous guy, but if you are, is she going to tell you that you have to convert to scientology, or else! 10 Year's from now is she going to tell you that you have to move out of the United State's, or else!
Like I said, your obviously an intelligent guy...Take a glance back at how you described her in your posts (and I believe you told us the description was toned down!!!!!!!!!), and ask yourself the question...Is this the woman who I want to one day carry my children?
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O yea...I think you should post a picture too....
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Marry the one you want to be with the rest of your life, not someone who you might be able to change into someone you want to be with for the rest of your life.
Ditto on the dog thing... A yapping lapdog in my house would go into the garbage disposal the second *she* isn't looking.
Sorry hon, I haven't seen the little rat-dog anywhere...
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Originally posted by Neubob
Telling mom to mind her business was step one. We're about a hundred steps past that now. Did the marriage counselor bit, which calmed things for a while, but only for a while. I would be more than willing to try again, if she were open to the idea. At this point, her mind is a closed vault, with all views utterly solidified. Regardless,I will see her this weekend, and will try to bring up the idea. Her usual retort of 'what's the point', will require some new and imaginative answers.
If shes at the "whats the point" stage
Sounds to me like she really doesnt want to get back together. She just doesnt have the balls to say so outright. Or doesnt want to say so outright for some reason.
so she is giving ultimatums that she knows you cannot agree to.
Another possibility is, and will no offence intended. that you have been completely wussified to her and she has lost all respect for you.
She plays this game because she knows she can and get away with it.
Either way the cure is the same
Try doing a reverse.
Tell her that if getting back together hinges on you seing your mother. then forget it. its over,done. and Walk away.
If she really wants to get back together. She will immediately drop this claim and come chasing after you.
I saw a relationship "expert" on TV put it perfectly. Women like and are attracted to strong men. And by strong I dont mean physically. But emotionally and mentally
"A strong man has the same effect on a woman. that a nice set of breasts have on a man"
If youve ever had a dog you know that if the dog runs away. You dont catch it by chasing it as it will only run farther away
Once the relationship is established.
Pet comes to master, Master doesnt chase pet
Now that doesnt mean you have to be rude or overly demanding or act lke a total A-hole.
Just strong
Prsonally though.
I still think shes a control freak
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Not to sound too cynical, but I bet she's already got another dude.
No, I'm not trying to make a bad joke. I'm serious. You've been separated long enough, she isn't interested in making things work, and she gave you some stupid ultimatum designed to make it "your fault" the marriage didn't work. Sounds to me like she already has what she needs and just wants the divorce proceedings to be your fault.
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Maybe, eagl.
Although, for my own reasons, I seriously doubt it, I nevertheless don't allow anything out of the realm of possibility anymore... Not when it concerns women.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
http://www.nomarriage.com/
Holy god thank you for posting that!
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Prsonally though.
I still think shes a control freak
Well, thus far, after every period of non-communication, she's been the one to break the silence. A couple days, and she's usually back, acting nice and sweet and warm and inviting. It's a pattern that I know, and have used, but one I'm getting tired of. Of course, those first couple days after the silence breaks are also the best, in all respects. Problem is that there're no plateaus here, just sudden ups and sudden downs. Whole lot of passion, but no calmness. After a while, you yearn for that calmness.
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Dred has a point. The more you let her control you the more she will. Its strange but I have heard what he is saying from dozens of personal experiences and stories.