Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Amigo on September 20, 2006, 02:50:31 AM
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Can the ENY limitations be done away with?
Curious what folks' take is on that. Fire away, though please keep it civil.
Premptive strike: I'm just asking a simple question, you sensitive bunch of irritated nipples.
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No it can't be done away with for all the reasons why we have it.
From all the posts that I have read, I think that the ENY formula needs to be tweaked and I believe that HT and Pyro feel the same and are already looking at it and we will see a change in the near future.
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I agree with Slapshot, there is a need for the eny limiter. It definately needs to be tweaked but that will take some time for the arenas to settle in. HTC has already said that it will be looked at but it would be hard to make any change this close into the new arena setup.
I think the switching limitation problem should be addressed before the eny problem, if we were free to bounce from side to side without the time limits it would help settle down the eny problem.
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so long as people insist on not evening up the sides then I guess something has to be done.
can you imagine a football game with 20 guys on one side a 1 on the other?
What kind of a guy would see that and then join the team with 20 players?
What kind of people are we getting in AH?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Someone suggested (I believe Edbert did) ... that one should be able to ALWAYS switch to a lower numbered country without the time penalty ... and I completely agree with this concept.
Team A = 50 people
Team B = 40 people
Team C = 30 people.
People from Team A could switch to Team B and Team C without the time restriction.
People from Team B could switch to Team C without the time restriction.
People from Team C could NOT switch to Team A or Team B until the time restriction has been met.
People from Team B could NOT switch to Team A until the time restriction has been met.
This would allow those who want to voluntarily help balance the arena ... do so without restriction.
Some might say ... "Well, some would jump just to get the W1N TH3 W@Rz perks".
Rubbish ... I can't ever recall a country that was outnumbered to ever get a reset ... and in grand scheme of things ... so friggin' what ... its ONLY 25 measly perks in each category ... 25 perks is chump change.
Balance or the ability to balance is the only thing that should matter.
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Im on the low side A.
Switch to side b to find the CV.
now i can switch right back to side A
Also time limit is only 1 hour, and your country is save in each arena.
HiTech
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Is there still a lower limit on the number of players before ENY starts?
As for balancing sides -
Will never ever happen, look at the attempts -
1) Perk multiplier
2) ENY restrictions
3) Lower side swap times
None really worked, so why should this new format?
All that is happening now is guys get in an arena and stay there in case they can't get back in.
So the caps are in a way contributing to the side imbalances, at least in the LW1 arena.
Was a bold move having the EW/MW/LW arenas but I think the caps are having a detrimental effect.
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Originally posted by hitech
Im on the low side A.
Switch to side b to find the CV.
now i can switch right back to side A
Also time limit is only 1 hour, and your country is save in each arena.
HiTech
I'm sorry HiTech, I thought it had stayed the same as it was before.
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Originally posted by hitech
Im on the low side A.
Switch to side b to find the CV.
now i can switch right back to side A
Also time limit is only 1 hour, and your country is save in each arena.
HiTech
True ... I forgot about the CV "spying" aspect ... darn.
But its nice to hear that the time limit is now 1 hour ... thanks for that.
Edit : HT for clarification ... you are keeping track of each person's time in a country in each specific arena ?
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Switching sides to the "low population" side just isn't an option in my case, even though I'm prone to root for the underdogs. :)
1. I fly for a squad, who in turns flies as part of an Alliance of several squads. This is my absolute favorite aspect of the entire AH world. If I switch sides, I miss out on that. Convincing the entire Alliance to switch with me on a whim, to satisfy a temporary population imbalance? Ain't gonna ever happen. We're Knights, and that's that.
2. I actually enjoy simulating allegiance to Country. Sure, it's a completely ficticious country, but it's fun to be "loyal" to my country in the game and adds to the AH experience.
So if my squaddies are on a server where we outnumber the opposition, even by ridiculous numbers, that's too bad. I'll dogpile right on there. And as has happened already several times, usually I'll come into a situation where ENY is 29 and I have about 5 cruddy aircraft to choose from. Hence my curiousity about if this was going to be removed or at least highly modified from current conditions. Since the format change, I have been FAR more limited in what planes I can fly, more often. And that absolutely detracts from my enjoyment of the game.
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Originally posted by hitech
Im on the low side A.
Switch to side b to find the CV.
now i can switch right back to side A
Also time limit is only 1 hour, and your country is save in each arena.
HiTech
:)
Cool only 1 hour..
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Originally posted by Amigo
Switching sides to the "low population" side just isn't an option in my case, even though I'm prone to root for the underdogs. :)
So if my squaddies are on a server where we outnumber the opposition, even by ridiculous numbers, that's too bad. I'll dogpile right on there.nd as has happened already several times, usually I'll come into a situation where ENY is 29 and I have about 5 cruddy aircraft to choose from. Hence my curiousity about if this was going to be removed or at least highly modified from current conditions. Since the format change, I have been FAR more limited in what planes I can fly, more often. And that absolutely detracts from my enjoyment of the game.
And yet you fail to see that your behavior absolutely detracts from other's enjoyment of the game? Or do you just fail to care, in spite of your "root for the underdog" nature?
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Originally posted by Amigo
So if my squaddies are on a server where we outnumber the opposition, even by ridiculous numbers, that's too bad. I'll dogpile right on there. And as has happened already several times, usually I'll come into a situation where ENY is 29 and I have about 5 cruddy aircraft to choose from. Hence my curiousity about if this was going to be removed or at least highly modified from current conditions. Since the format change, I have been FAR more limited in what planes I can fly, more often. And that absolutely detracts from my enjoyment of the game.
It detracts from the fun of the game for the other players by getting dogpiled on also.
If They have to live with being outnumbered by ridiculous numbers, why should you not live with only being able to have ridiculous numbers in limited planes you can fly ?
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Here is a simple solution one that would work if done. Instead of a ENY limiter under its current situation which we all agree needs to be fixed. Listening to the never ending BS line switch side answer.:furious It SOLVES NOTHING IN THE LONG RUN!! People siwtch side well that side now outnumbers the other therefore more people siwtch sides more and more trying to balance everything. :rofl Does nothing to be add confusion into the situation that is not needed. What is needed is real answers to the current problems not temporary fixes that does not solve the situation but onlay maybe for a few hours to a week at max. The simple answer is simply. Sometimes the best answer to things is the simpliest. INcrease the current arean to say 300 and limiting the amount a country can have on at one time. Each country allowed to have 100 people max within a given arena. If you were a Bish/KNight/Rook in that Arena last and that country has the max wehn you log an option pops up and tell you there is already 100 of that country on and if you would like to fly for a different country. If you click another country you log and if not you have to pick another arena. Something along those lines is simply. Now people let us here real solutions and the switch country side that has gotten old and useless and a bit stale.:furious
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Originally posted by Urchin
And yet you fail to see that your behavior absolutely detracts from other's enjoyment of the game? Or do you just fail to care, in spite of your "root for the underdog" nature?
I see. You're telling me that the artifical game mechanic of ENY can be overcome with a behavior change! Now we're getting somewhere.
It's MY bad behavior because my favorite thing in AH is flying with my Alliance buddies, and it's MY bad behavior because all 20-30 of them are not going to collectively agree to switch sides to appease a temporary population problem. Got it.
Explain to me why an artificial limiter needs to be put in place to control a "behavior", when now we're being told we can modify our behavior to overcome that same artificial limiter? A paradox, isn't it?
How about removing the artificial limiter from the equation entirely, and relying on behavior to correct imbalances then? After all, this is the complimentary inverse of your "solution". Here's how it might look:
"Hey there fellow Bishops in MW! We are getting SQUASHED in LW2, badly outnumbered, and we need immediate help or we're going to lose the late war. Please come help".
Population fixes itself, in the total absence of the Almighty ENY - The Great Equalizer.
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Originally posted by Amigo
I see. You're telling me that the artifical game mechanic of ENY can be overcome with a behavior change! Now we're getting somewhere.
It's MY bad behavior because my favorite thing in AH is flying with my Alliance buddies, and it's MY bad behavior because all 20-30 of them are not going to collectively agree to switch sides to appease a temporary population problem. Got it.
Explain to me why an artificial limiter needs to be put in place to control a "behavior", when now we're being told we can modify our behavior to overcome that same artificial limiter? A paradox, isn't it?
How about removing the artificial limiter from the equation entirely, and relying on behavior to correct imbalances then? After all, this is the complimentary inverse of your "solution". Here's how it might look:
"Hey there fellow Bishops in MW! We are getting SQUASHED in LW2, badly outnumbered, and we need immediate help or we're going to lose the late war. Please come help".
Population fixes itself, in the total absence of the Almighty ENY - The Great Equalizer.
Because it is better getting dogpiled by Spit Is than it is La-7s, P-38s, P-51s, P-47s, Spit 16s, ... etc.
It's called making it kinda fair and fun for all involved ... terrible concept ... right ?
I could bet the ranch if the numbers shoe was on the other foot and you were not only getting pummelled by superior numbers but they were all flying La-7s, P-38s, P-51s, P-47s, Spit 16s, ... etc ... you would sing a different tune.
Urchin hit the nail on the head but I felt compelled to reply.
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Yes SlapShot
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Originally posted by Amigo
I"Hey there fellow Bishops in MW! We are getting SQUASHED in LW2, badly outnumbered, and we need immediate help or we're going to lose the late war. Please come help".
So you want other people to change their behavior in order to fix a problem caused by you and your friends?
Nice.
I like your proactive shoving of responsibility onto other people.
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HT, is there any interest in a setup where, unless the timer has expired, you could only go to the country with the lowest numbers? (not unlimited switching)
I would think that would prevent the spying issues of unlimited switching, but I don't know if that would be as easy to impliment as we might think. I've seen numbers fluctuate pretty wildly within an hour.
Anyway, a 1 hour timer now is a lot better than 5. When did that change?
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Hub reread my post on the low number switch problem with slight additions.
Im on the low side A and time has expired.
Switch to side b to find the CV.
now i can switch right back to side A even thow time limit inplace because they are low numbers
We changed it to 1 hour monday.
HiTech
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Ah, I see what you're getting at now. Short timer's probably the best compromise then.
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Originally posted by Amigo
I see. You're telling me that the artifical game mechanic of ENY can be overcome with a behavior change!
Exactly.
Originally posted by Amigo
It's MY bad behavior because my favorite thing in AH is flying with my Alliance buddies, and it's MY bad behavior because all 20-30 of them are not going to collectively agree to switch sides to appease a temporary population problem. Got it.
Then maybe we really are getting somewhere.
Originally posted by Amigo
Explain to me why an artificial limiter needs to be put in place to control a "behavior", when now we're being told we can modify our behavior to overcome that same artificial limiter? A paradox, isn't it?
Not as I understand the meaning of the word, no. The "artificial limiter" was put in place to induce people to change their behavior. That is the purpose of the "artificial limiter".
Originally posted by Amigo
How about removing the artificial limiter from the equation entirely, and relying on behavior to correct imbalances then? After all, this is the complimentary inverse of your "solution". Here's how it might look:
"Hey there fellow Bishops in MW! We are getting SQUASHED in LW2, badly outnumbered, and we need immediate help or we're going to lose the late war. Please come help".
Population fixes itself, in the total absence of the Almighty ENY - The Great Equalizer.
Here is how the answer would probably look "Sorry man, we are DOMINATING the LW1 arena! Weve got twice as many as the other two sides combined! Why don't you come over here and play?"
There is a reason the ENY exists, and it is because people wouldn't even up the sides without it. Even then, HT & company had to dramatically lessen the effects of it as it was first implemented, because all the tears threatened to flood the planet.
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I dont believe that ENY shoudld be elimanted all to together but it does need to be tweeked. Everyone has listed good reasons as that it is in here. Me ENY use to never effect me due to the fact I fly mainly Hurricanes unless doing squad ops and another aircraft is needed. But I already posted something about the current ENY of the Hurricanes. My biggest issue with the ENY is this. I should have something to up that present some sort of fight aginst LALA, Spitfires (except Spit 1 & 5), and P-51s instead of being limited to Spit and Hurricane MK 1, in other words aircraft from the Early War Arena. So it needs to be tweaked but I have yet to hear a solid arguement for to be done away with altogether.
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You do. You have numbers.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so long as people insist on not evening up the sides then I guess something has to be done.
can you imagine a football game with 20 guys on one side a 1 on the other?
What kind of a guy would see that and then join the team with 20 players?
What kind of people are we getting in AH?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Can't imagine a football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and or a soccer game having 3 sides either.
This "balance" you elude to is unattainable in a 3 sided system that leaves any front unattended.
So for the love of stop making this comparison.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Can't imagine a football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and or a soccer game having 3 sides either.
This "balance" you elude to is unattainable in a 3 sided system that leaves any front unattended.
So for the love of stop making this comparison.
Actually, Mugz, that's HT's analogy. He's always going off about that "games should be fun and fair" nonsense.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Can't imagine a football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and or a soccer game having 3 sides either.
This "balance" you elude to is unattainable in a 3 sided system that leaves any front unattended.
So for the love of stop making this comparison.
well said sir!:aok
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ok... so if a game has three sides then it is fair if one side has twice the numbers?
Do you guys let go of each others hands long enough to salute?
Do you actually defend the concept of team play IN A GAME where one team has double the numbers?
or... are you saying that if there were only two sides in AH you would support any measure in order to even up the sides?
your position is untenable.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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i disagree slapshot. choice or the ability to choose is what matters. seems we are losing the choice. which brings me to ask. where are the big maps?
S!
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Originally posted by DadRabit
i disagree slapshot. choice or the ability to choose is what matters. seems we are losing the choice. which brings me to ask. where are the big maps?
S!
You haven't lost choice ... it's just been refined for you.
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lol
fancy way of saying here's your choice. take it.
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Originally posted by DadRabit
lol
fancy way of saying here's your choice. take it.
Yup ... go to the "wishlist" forum ... there are numerous amounts of planes that people would like made available ... but they aren't ... so they have to choose what HTC has made available.
Same thing here.
Pop-up blocker !!! ... :p
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:rofl :D
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Seriously, DadRabit...
We're looking at two different but important values -- tradition/loyalty to a country, and teh game's need for balance. Both are good things, but they're in conflct right now. Unfettered choice of country has created serious (sometimes massive) imbalance.
It would be great if everyone had free choice of country. It would be great if everyone faced equal overall odds in equal planes, because who wants to get ganged every single place they take off?
It would be great if everyone chose in a way that kept the game fair and balanced -- but they havent.
Bluntly, your freedom to choose country has deprived others of their right to an even playing field.
How would you suggest the conflict be resolved?
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but this problem occurs at "peak" times right?
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"tradition/loyalty to a country"
what country? i doubt you could offhand name more than 3 people in your "country" that arnt in your squad.
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also, does this problem occur during small maps? big maps?
i'm here to have fun gentlemen. been here i believe over 6 years now and i not leaving. i wish i had all the answers but i dont. i just call em as i see them. the one thing i like about ah2 is i can get into any ride i want and there are lots to choose from.
back to the maps issue, i believe the larger maps allow more choices. if a base is being vultched i up somewhere else. hard to do that with small maps. thats the problem i have right now is its the same old small maps. we need to put the larger maps back into rotation.
i have fought with and against alot of folks in ah2 and its a blast.
bring back the large maps. fix the eny. go out and have fun.
as for the "peak" times.i stated in another post. can the problem be solved by change with the times?
S!
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I believe that the reason for the arenas using the small maps is directly related to the max population being allowed in each arena.
I think max population per arena is 250 people ... so with that limited amount of players on a large map ... people could spread out so far, that for the most part, it would not promote/generate fights ... but rather promote/generate milk-running ... which is not what HTC wants to have happen.
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so were stuck with small maps because of the change?