Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on September 20, 2006, 01:47:59 PM
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I was driving my wife's mustang today and notice the bellybutton end on it was more loose than usual. As I was filling up I pushed down on the trunk and it sank down like nothing and then bounced.
I'm not familure with a car like this so is the rear suspension supposed to be loose?
Is the front supposed t be tighter because it is still very stiff.
2002 Mustang GT Conv.
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Its that American design/manufacturing mentality of having a log axle rear end instead of an independent suspension. I curse at Ford everytime I go from my BMW to the wife's 05 mustang when I start taking corners....:mad:
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mustangs will always have a solid rear axle, because it's the merican way.
some time in recent history, ford was going to bring out a mustang with front wheel drive and full independent suspension, but market surveys said mustang owners would not buy it , so ford renamed the FWD car something else and put together a "mustang" with a solid rear axle.
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Originally posted by john9001
mustangs will always have a solid rear axle, because it's the merican way.
some time in recent history, ford was going to bring out a mustang with front wheel drive and full independent suspension, but market surveys said mustang owners would not buy it , so ford renamed the FWD car something else and put together a "mustang" with a solid rear axle.
I've heard it is because that the log axles (solid rear axle) is about 10 times cheaper than independent suspensions. Cheaper costs means more corporate profit...
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Guns, are you sure the shocks aren't bad? All the Mustangs I've had any experience with always had pretty stiff suspensions.
BMW's are for yuppies.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by john9001
mustangs will always have a solid rear axle, because it's the merican way.
some time in recent history, ford was going to bring out a mustang with front wheel drive and full independent suspension, but market surveys said mustang owners would not buy it , so ford renamed the FWD car something else and put together a "mustang" with a solid rear axle.
The 03 and 04 Cobra's had a IRS. a good deal of the folks who own them take the IRS out sell it and put a solid axle under it. IRS is great for turning but not worth a bent nickle for a drag strip.
Gunslinger....When the car rebounds does it continue to bounce or does it settle down?
Robert
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well its hard to tell from a desription like that. but it kind of sounds like you have a broken shock mount. while the shock does not really hold the car up spring does 90% of that work it does controll the movment of the spring. if you push down and let go the car should not bounce on the springs. a worn out or broken spring and or spring will allow the suspension to move with out damping. this would cause poor handling including massive oversteer and a very bouncy ride.
of coarse even the omni potant bmw would do this with worn out or broken shocks.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
it sank down like nothing and then bounced.
Yes it bounced! Any other car I'd call the shocks bad on it but from my experience usually you replace all 4 of them, not just the rears. The front seem nice and stiff, no bounce at all, but the rear sink and then bounce once it springs back up.
I was just curious if this was normal to 02 Mustang convertables.
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"Any other car I'd call the shocks bad on it but from my experience usually you replace all 4 of them, not just the rears."
I've seen just the rears go before; not on a Mustang, but it can happen.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I was driving my wife's mustang today and notice the bellybutton end on it was more loose than usual.
So thats what they're calling it these days....the ol "driving the mustang"....lol those crazy kids!
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Originally posted by SmokinSS
The 03 and 04 Cobra's had a IRS. a good deal of the folks who own them take the IRS out sell it and put a solid axle under it. IRS is great for turning but not worth a bent nickle for a drag strip.
Gunslinger....When the car rebounds does it continue to bounce or does it settle down?
Robert
99 and 01 Cobras also had IRS.
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check the springs on the rearend, it doesn't sound like the shock would be causing that to me. you can actually take the shock completely off and it won't be that loose. If I were you I would look to make sure there is actually a spring on it, then check and make sure it's not messed up. secondly I would look at the shock mount area and make sure there's no cracks or anything like that in the area. maybe a loose/missing nut somewhere. If I had to bet, I would bet on the spring being gone or broken. sounds goofy but I've known people who had similar problems and go check and there actually missing a spring, I swear those things fall off somehow :) . Secondly, the main reason the mustang/camero's have always had a solid rear axle is that the majority of people who own them use them for 1/4 mile drag monsters, they market the stang and chevy the camero towards the 1/4 mile crowd as a cheap car that you can turn into a beast for very little $$. If they were to switch to an independant rear end then most of the parts would cost 5 times the ammount. generally speaking a mustang, especially an early 90's late 80's mustang is a great buy if you are looking for a 1/4 miler that you can buy reasonbly cheap and turn into a beast for a few grand more. Just take a 92 mustang and throw a crated up V8 in it and a shiftkit and your set. anyway good luck on the stang, let us know if find the culprit. If your still having problems figuring it out, run it down to your local garage and have one of the people out back working come take a quick look at it in the parking lot, most of the time they'll figure out whats wrong and won't even charge you sense its not in there garage but in the parking lot. I have a 68 camero and anytime I need to get under my car to work on something or to inspect something I just run down the street to discount tire and have throw it up on one of there lifts, I started building that car about 5 years ago, so needless to say I'm on a first name basis with most the people there :)
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"99 and 01 Cobras also had IRS."
yeah and that's basically why the cobra was about 10k more then the regular GT. the brand new stock GT's with the V8's were around 25k or so, I bet you payed well over 35k for the cobra with the messed up/very expensive rearend, of course it will handle only a little bit better on the road, but on the track it really kicks the car's arse, especially when you are trying to buy new parts for it or to change something out in the rearend. that was probably the dumbest thing ford has done :)
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"The 03 and 04 Cobra's had a IRS. a good deal of the folks who own them take the IRS out sell it and put a solid axle under it. IRS is great for turning but not worth a bent nickle for a drag strip. "
I still don't get it, why would you want to pay the extra money for a cobra with IRS and then scrap it off and buy a solid rear axle, why wouldn't you just save the $$ and buy a GT, that's the only difference between the 2, that and goofy hoods that are supposed to have a very basic ram air system but unfortunately doesn't work
of coarse the year that they offered the supercharger it was a deal :) almost forgot about that, I think it was in 03 or 04 that they offered that in the cobra, man those things would run out of the box
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I've heard it is because that the log axles (solid rear axle) is about 10 times cheaper than independent suspensions. Cheaper costs means more corporate profit...
Yep more corp profit, cause the price of the mustang desont get cheaper.
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Originally posted by Iceman24
I still don't get it, why would you want to pay the extra money for a cobra with IRS and then scrap it off and buy a solid rear axle, why wouldn't you just save the $$ and buy a GT, that's the only difference between the 2, that and goofy hoods that are supposed to have a very basic ram air system but unfortunately doesn't work
Theres a lot more diffrences when you think.
First IRS Cobras were only 5K over GT. And that included more power(260 vs 320),better engine(aluminum block), 32Valves, 7000 RPM redline,13" brembo brakes,etc etc .. Weight balance of 53F/47R and IRS was about 1" wider then solid axle in GT. Plus many more. Theres a reason why most GT owners upgrade with Cobra parts and not the other way around. The only people i know that put solid axle in their cobras were hardcore drag racers.
In 2007 mustangs, diffrences are even greater and worth every penny.
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Originally posted by Birddogg
Theres a lot more diffrences when you think.
In 2007 mustangs, diffrence is even greater and worth every penny.
I feel that the current 4.6 is over engineered, dual cams, only 300 horse??
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Originally posted by Birddogg
Theres a lot more diffrences when you think.
First IRS Cobras were only 5K over GT. And that included more power(260 vs 320),better engine(aluminum block), 32Valves, 7000 RPM redline,13" brembo brakes,etc etc .. Weight balance of 53F/47R and IRS was about 1" wider then solid axle in GT. Plus many more. Theres a reason why most GT owners upgrade with Cobra parts and not the other way around. The only people i know that put solid axle in their cobras were hardcore drag racers.
In 2007 mustangs, diffrences are even greater and worth every penny.
Eagl has a 98 TA that he autocrosses and espouses the virtues of the solid rear axle. Hopefully he'll come in tonight and tell ya how his car beats many IRS cars in his class.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I feel that the current 4.6 is over engineered, dual cams, only 300 horse??
GT engine makes 300HP.
Cobra engine makes around 500HP. (its basically the same engine as in Ford GT only with iron block)
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Eagl has a 98 TA that he autocrosses and espouses the virtues of the solid rear axle. Hopefully he'll come in tonight and tell ya how his car beats many IRS cars in his class.
Hey anything is possible..
I beat some grandma in a Porcshe on the parking lot.. Does that count? :D
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Originally posted by Birddogg
Hey anything is possible..
I beat some grandma in a Porcshe on the parking lot.. Does that count? :D
I bet it was a grocery loading contest, wasn't it? LOL
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
I bet it was a grocery loading contest, wasn't it? LOL
LOL:rofl
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Gun,
I beleive the shocks are shot. If it were a spring the car would set lower at that point.
I own a '06 stang with a solid rear. Main difference between IRS and Live axle is the Live Axle will upset the car on a rough corner where the IRS will generaly be more stable in that situation.
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Originally posted by Birddogg
GT engine makes 300HP.
Cobra engine makes around 500HP. (its basically the same engine as in Ford GT only with iron block)
that 5.4 started out in the lighting some years back, it hasa blower more boost equals more power. I just hate that ford didnt bother to make a new engine for the gt. It either shows u how good the engine is or how lazy they are.
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Your rear shocks might be worn out...
Mustangs often have soft rear suspension 'cause *in general* a softer suspension aids overall traction (even if it makes the car handle like crap) and mustangs have traditionally been balanced too nose-heavy, making them prone to rear wheelspin and loss of rear grip. Loosening up the rear suspension can help with overall grip at the expense of making the car handling more sloppy.
That said, the shocks should prevent it from being bouncy so your shocks might be worn out.
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Regarding solid rear axle vs. IRS, the solid rear axle will quite often offer an advantage on the track, at the cost of trickier handling qualities. Road and Track repeatedly compared the f-body cars to the mustangs and although the new IRS mustangs handled "better" than the f-body in terms of ease of driving over bumps and uneven pavement, the f-body still soundly trounced the mustang even when the mustangs finally got a horsepower advantage.
Go to ANY SCCA autocross event, and compare the performance of stock mustangs against stock f-bodies... If you can find any stock mustangs competing that is. The f-body cars simply destroy the mustangs on the track so almost nobody races mustangs in SCCA stock classes and nobody actually wins driving them either.
The only drawback to the solid rear axle is axle hop under acceleration (controllable with suspension tweaks), axle hop under braking (controllable by skilled driving and/or suspension tweaks), and quirky handling when accelerating or cornering over uneven pavement or bumps. Even then, the solid rear axle will often come out with higher overall performance than the IRS.
Almost forgot... You can get a bulletproof solid rear capable of handling a LOT more power and torque than the stock IRS, and to my knowledge they don't sell an IRS upgrade capable of handling as much power as commonplace solid rear ends. You can spend only a couple thousand bucks and get a solid rear end that can handle well over 1000 hp. I don't know if there is an IRS swapout that can take that much power but if there is, there is no way it is nearly as cheap.
Track results do not lie... Yea everyone WISHES someone would develop an IRS that matched the last generation of solid axles in terms of overall grip and track performance, but it hasn't happened in US auto designs. Most car designers realize that the last bit of performance isn't worth the handling tradeoff so they go with a more comfortable and predictable IRS wherever feasable, but again track results show that the solid rear axle typically beats the IRS in comparable cars.
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Yea, Mustangs dont compete much with Camaros and TAs in autoX because the way classes are divided makes Mustangs less competetive. Heres why:
1. 99-01 cobras dont make enough low end torque to pull em fast enough out of tight little corners of autoX courses.
2. GTs lack power compared to camaros and vettes
3. 03-04 Cobras have a supercharger and cant complete with camaros and TAs classs, so they fall into Vette class.
I think 2005/2006 Mustang GTs suits the F-class much better. (300HP, good low end power, improved suspension, etc).
Check who won the F-stock class here
http://www.scca.com/Event/Result.asp?Ref2=291
I know there are some cars with solid axle that have little problem overtaking IRS cars. But theres also alot of IRS cars that outperform solid axle. Most people who opt for solid axle in road racing do it because of cost and reliablity. Mustangs and IRS is still pretty new compared to how long the solid axle has been around.
There are race ready IRS suspensions hitting the market that are designed ground up for racing and can be bought and put in any 2005/2006 mustangs. It all looks very interesting, guess we will have to wait and see how it all goes down.