Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bj229r on September 21, 2006, 06:42:11 AM
-
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060921-123316-5086r.htm
The Federal Election Integrity Act was approved on a nearly party-line 228-196 vote. Republicans backed the bill 224-3, with three nonvoters; Democrats opposed it 192-4, with five nonvoters. They were joined in opposition by the House's one independent member.
The bill, which faces an uncertain future in the Senate, is part of a Republican effort to complete before the November elections a package of proposals aimed at curbing illegal immigration and its effects on ordinary Americans.
The so-called "Voter ID" bill, aimed at stamping out voter fraud, would require voters in federal elections to provide picture identification by 2008 and provide proof of U.S. citizenship by 2010. It was among the recommendations made last year by the bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform, headed by former President Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, a Republican.
"Effective voter registration and voter identification are bedrocks of a modern election system," they wrote in their final report.
But Democrats, siding with groups that work on behalf of minorities and illegal aliens, called the bill a "modern-day poll tax" and said it would place an insurmountable burden on voters and infringe upon their voting rights.
A Republican cited a study by Johns Hopkins University that found 1,500 dead people who had voted in recent elections. Mr. Hoyer belittled the study, saying no criminal convictions for voter fraud had been won in any of those cases.
Mr. Bilbray pointed out that such convictions might be obtained if proper identification were required.
-
I agree. The dead should be able to vote also . :)
-
Republicans backed the bill 224-3, with three nonvoters; Democrats opposed it 192-4, with five nonvoters
speaks volumes concerning who relies on voter fraud to get/stay elected and who doesn't ...
why are the dems worried about the illegal immigrant vote? since when can an illegal vote?
-
Picture ID or Proof of Citizenship constitutes a poll tax? Unfair to minorities? Frankly, I don't see how...Am I missing something?
Unfair to illegal aliens? Unfair to acknowledged criminals who aren't even citizens of this country? Why, 'cause border-jumping nationals of a foreign government don't get to vote in the US? That's just plain funny....:rolleyes:
I like the idea. Voting is a priviledge, and a sacred duty, and not to be trifled with, nor to be made available to sneaky little felons who are defined by their blatant disrespect for the law.
Perhaps the Democratic Representatives feel we should extend Federal Voting Rights to...the entire human race, and let the globe decide how the US should be run. Let's call the Iranians, Syrians and Chinese first...then things'll get right around here, don'tcha think?
-
if someone can't scrape up a picture id, then they don't deserve to vote
the ONLY reason someone would be against this is the fact that they rely on voter fraud for their numbers
I thought we did this already ... I have to show my drivers license at the polls
-
It's not like it's hard to get a picture ID either. They are cheap. Anyone who doesn't have one(who can get one) is just too lazy to go to their local DMV and wait in line.
-
The fact that ALL the Republicans are for this and ALL the Democrats are against it tells me that the OP is leaving something out.
Unless you truly do think that the Dems are all dependant upon illegal votes...
-
Originally posted by Rameusb5
Unless you truly do think that the Dems are all dependant upon illegal votes...
BECAUSE THEY ****ING ARE!
-
Originally posted by ASTAC
It's not like it's hard to get a picture ID either. They are cheap. Anyone who doesn't have one(who can get one) is just too lazy to go to their local DMV and wait in line.
This was an issue in a southern state recently and the dems played the same race card. This was AFTER it was proposed to have a mobile ID processing unit that makes FREE ID cards for voting.
I'm still waiting to hear from the oposition on this board on how this is a modern day poll tax.
-
If the REAL ID Act of 2005 is finalized and passes, a picture ID is going to be required to board an aircraft or enter a federal building anyway. I see no problem with having to have one to vote.
-
Why is it some people are okay with this "official ID" stuff, yet when you watch those old movies with the Nazi guys saying "Give me your papers!" it's always viewed as bad?
I'm not against this sort of measure because it's too much of a hassle (it isn't). I'm against it because it's unamerican.
As with so many issues, just enforcing the laws which are already in place would cure the problem the new measure supposedly solves. "It's not too much of a hassle" isn't a very good reason to support a new law when, once passed, that law will probably never go away.
J_A_B
-
Isn't it obvious that using photo ID is a procedural necessity? How else can you determine that the voting requirements are met? How else do you keep the vote legitimate? BTW, I've been required to show photo ID since I was old enough to vote! What is the big deal?
-
unfair to the self concious ugly:furious :furious :rofl :rofl
-
mexico requires photo ID and a fingerprint to vote.
They also shoot poeple trying to cross their southern borders.
lazs
-
Hehe,..I remember in eight grade in the town I grew up in, the Vice Pricipal made naer daily speeches from the steps overlooking the courtyard area.
The speeches were in Mexican, but most of us understood it anyway. It was all about how the Mexicians would rise to power and take over from the White people of the state. And how Texas would again be part of Mexico.
It was about how they had already secured the city council and how any illegal could come to the city without fear of being sent back. He discussed how they could protect everyone moving there.
Part of how it as accomplished was through the use of dead people's ID's. When an illegal came to to vote, they would simply register him/her as some dead person. The votes would count. No one would audit, as they had already gain control of the local government.
His message was to tell thier p[arents about this so they could get as many familiy members and friends to move there as fast as they could.
Now that happened in 1967-68. When I asked about why the VP of the school could get away with making those speeches, I was told the board of directors of the school district had ordered those speeches to be made. So if the VP wanted to keep his job, he had to make them.
I also found it odd the press never once came to any school campus to report about those speeches. My parents tried to get media attention drawn to these things, but no one ever showed up or even called about it.
Odd that.
-
skuzzy... you are not implying that the media in the U.S. has an agenda that is counter to good reporting?
lazs
-
If the dead cannot vote, then how will Chicago elect anyone?
I'm on the fence about this issue. It says that by 2010, the requirement for voting will expand to being able to prove US Citizenship at the polling place. A drivers license is not an adequate proof of that, in fact I have many resident alien friends who have drivers licenses here.
This would appear to mandate that you present a birth certificate, passport, or military ID at the polling place. I think this could have a chilling effect on democracy by raising the 'price of admission' for people we should be reaching out to as voters. The young generations are not as engaged in the democratic process as in the past. This may reflect a gradual shift away from a representative democracy and a shift towards concentrating the power of the country in the hands of a small group.
I do not believe this reflects the intentions of our founding fathers. I would rather that existing vote fraud laws be enforced rather than creating new laws and barriers. This is no different from proposing new laws against firearms to "fight crime" instead of enforcing the existing and more than adequete laws already on the books.
I urge those of you who share my opinion on the fallacies of gun control to re-examine this legislation with that in mind to see if these new laws still do what you want them to, then ask yourselves some hard questions.
-
Damn, I thought I came right out and said it. The media thing was secondary to schools allowing the administrators to stand up in front of students and preach 'death to the white man'.
I must be slipping.
This law will not fix anything anyway. In 68 illegals were voting. All the folks running the show had to do was assign a dead person's ID to them so they could vote. No one called foul. Hell, no one even knows it was happening.
How is a picture ID going to help? All they will do is provide one to the voter from the same dead person's file. Sheesh. It will just cost the legitimate tax payer more money.
-
Why would one perceive the act of presenting a verifiable identification as unamerican?
The legislation requires that a valid photo ID (just a driver's license) be presented in order to cast your vote. The ballot is still secret and, in many local municipalities, showing your DL is required to vote anyway.
When the idea of national ID cards is floated, it always brings out the 'big brother' arguement, but this idea seems to be purely procedural...just mandating uniformity. Also, it's intended to guarantee the validity of votes...which is no laughing matter.
Considering the impact of illegal voting, illegal immigration, espionage, etc...I have no problem with being sure that people who are claiming priviledges are actually supposed to be entitled to them.
This approach still keeps identification issued at the state level, not federal.
-
Skuzz,
I'm just guessing, but my hunch is that the legislation relys on the increasingly tight requirements for getting a DL. Here in Jersey, they use a point system, and I had to do some hunting to find enough document points to renew. It's a LOT harder to get an illigitimate DL here now than it was 3 years ago. A dead man can't produce a recent bank statement, US passport or property tax bill.
By relying on tighter state-level DL issuance requirements, the legislation would simply help assure that votes are cast by people who are legitimate; i.e....citizens, residents,...and not dead.
I'm not suggesting that it's foolproof, just that it appears to be a step in the right direction to making certain that the sanctity of our voting system doesn't get violated by guys like your school VP, and the sort of person he endeavored to recruit to take over the country (or at least Texas, The Great Republic of :D )
-
Let me clarify. What the little school dictator was telling his followers was that everything was in place then.
He was right. If you are an illegal in South Texas, you can get a driver's license, be able to vote, get a job, get health care, and not be a U.S. citizen.
No amount of state or federal law will change that, as the people who are in control are sympathizers.
-
Originally posted by ASTAC
It's not like it's hard to get a picture ID either. They are cheap. Anyone who doesn't have one(who can get one) is just too lazy to go to their local DMV and wait in line.
Around here it's simply impossible to "live" without 2 forms of ID; no bank account, no Apt, cant drive, cant cash a check.. even the "NO ID" check cashing places wont do it until they make you one of their ID cards.
I would venture to guess that most citizens have found its nearly impossible to get by without any ID and are so used to hearing "Can I see your ID please?" , it would be 2nd nature when going to vote.
Either way Repubs / Dems are out for themselves first, not the country.. and I'm sure they'll craft laws to help themselves as much as possible while trying to screw the other side out of votes.
-
Well, anything that does come along to put an end to that (and I surely hope it will) has my total support.
The parasitism has got to end...soon.
-
This would appear to mandate that you present a birth certificate, passport, or military ID at the polling place. I think this could have a chilling effect on democracy by raising the 'price of admission' for people we should be reaching out to as voters.- Chairboy
I totally disagree. I think of it as step 1 for each person in doing their civic duty to help insure the vote is legitimate. What we are trying to protect here is the integrity of the vote, and the confidence the legitimate voter can have in this process. If someone feels chilled by this, maybe they have good reason...
-
If you want a legitimate vote, you would need to eliminate votes from South Texas, much of Southern California, parts of New Mexico, and probably others.
Otherwise, its all tainted. And there is nothing that will be done about it. And I am not sure there is anything that can be done about it, short of sending in the military and declaring marshal law.
But all of that would have to be from the outside. South Texas (I cannot speak about the oterh areas) is a safe haven for illegals.
-
I guess it would be more precise to say "more legitimate" Scuzzy. I didn't know it was that bad out there. However, working towards the eventual goal is a worthy effort, and you have to start someplace... we certainly should be able to stop some fraudulant voting this way.
-
(http://www.freakingnews.com/entries/500/876CHJG_w.jpg)
-
I suppose they can use an 'X'. Most cannot write anyway. They may not even have to though. Some of the paperwork is already signed for them.
-
WHat we need is not more laws...but a military coup...and marshal law...then maybe voters and politicians alike will appreciate what our founding fathers tried to do for us.
But before normalcy can resume:
Party affiliations should be outlawed (look at all the recent votes there is no bipartisanship)
Lobbyists should be outlawed.
Donations to canidates can only be made by private citizens. ANd a cap of $5000 on top of that.
No political ads for or against any canidate by a corperation, group or individual.
Thats just a start.
In my opinion most Americans don't deserve to vote anyway. If you can't even find your hometown or state on a map, then you have no business having a say in anything that goes on here.
-
ASTAC: Check out 'Starship Troopers' by Robert Heinlein. Different from the movie.
-
Funked?.......
-
Why not require a SSN? Those are given by the federal authorities right?
Over here we are given a unique "SSN" at birth, and we are required to positively identify ourselves by using a government approved ID when voting.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Why not require a SSN? Those are given by the federal authorities right?
Over here we are given a unique "SSN" at birth, and we are required to positively identify ourselves by using a government approved ID when voting.
In the states you can have a Social Security # and NOT be a citizen, same as a drivers license---I.D. is a nice start, and I THINK proof of citizenship is required by 2010.
Note--the 'poll tax' bs by John Lewis doesnt hold water---there is money in the bill to PAY poor for poor people to get state-approved I.D. (seems like they'd need that anyhow to cash their welfare checks:cool: )
-
Yes but how many illegal immigrants have SSN's? And how many dead people have active SSN's. ;)
If votes were linked to SSN's it would be much harder for local governments to commit voter fraud without the federal government finding out.
Or am I completely off the mark here?
-
According to Greg Palast: "The federal government reports that 300,000 voters were turned away from the polls in 2004 for lack of "proper" I.D. Not lack of I.D., but lack of proper I.D. In New Mexico, for example, voters who excluded their middle initial on their driver's license but included it on their voter registration lost their vote. But not everyone is asked for I.D. Experts for the US Civil Rights Commission calculated that a Black voter is 900% more likely to have their ballot left uncounted than a white voter."
So without introducing a uniform, mandatory federal ID card that is deliberately matched to the voter registration, ID card checks can -- and no doubt will -- be used a tool for dodgy vote challenges. The ID card also needs to be difficult to forge, or else it'll be useless at stopping illegal immigrants.
300,000 reported cases of improper ID taking away votes, versus Johns Hopkins' 1,500 dead people fraudulently adding votes: both are wrong, but it seems that only the dead people are going to be addressed by the current bill.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Yes but how many illegal immigrants have SSN's? And how many dead people have active SSN's. ;)
If votes were linked to SSN's it would be much harder for local governments to commit voter fraud without the federal government finding out.
Or am I completely off the mark here?
Having a SSN does not indicate citizenship. Permanent Residents and those with a work visa are legal aliens who also have a SSN, pay taxes, are subject to a military draft if called (student and Permanent Resident visa holders) and other responsibilities, but cannot vote. Citizenship is required to cast a ballot.
-
Rolex, I have personally witnessed illegals voting. Here is how it worked the day I witnessed it.
A truckload of people are brought to the voting station. None of which can speak English. When they get to the entry point, they are directed to another stand which spaeks thier language. If you stood and just watched, the illegal would make be asked a question by the person.
Then a moment later the person would hand the illegal a card. One of them dropped the card as he passed me and I picked it up. It was a completed instruction list, in thier language, on how to vote and who to vote for.
I was going to say something, but then realized I was being eyeballed my about 8 different people of the same ethnic persuation. One of the them approached me and asked if there was a problem. I handed the card back to the individual and said "Nop", and commented, "Nice to have the help cards ready for people.".
He returned the comment, "It just explains the importance of voting and how the machines work." I returned, "Oh, good isea" and left it at that.
No telling where I would be today had I told him I understand exactly what was on that card.
Now that was a long time ago (early 70's). I am sure the process has been improved since then.
-
Skuzzy, change is hard when people behave in ways that show they accept the status quo. Being outnumbered isn't an excuse. I'm not insensitive to your dilemma in this situation, but I can say I've been in similar situations before, and my self-confidence always allowed me to survive unharmed even though I spoke up loudly.
Our forefathers risked all to give us liberty....sometimes its worth some risk to defend it.
culero
-
Culero, had you been there, you would have a better understanding. It was very clear the officials running that station were very much aware of what was going on. Any noise I would have made would not have made any difference.
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Any noise I would have made would not have made any difference.
Not True!
It would have made a difference in your physical well being :)
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy Then a moment later the person would hand the illegal a card. One of them dropped the card as he passed me and I picked it up. It was a completed instruction list, in thier language, on how to vote and who to vote for.
Believe it or not something similar happened to me in the last election. I was walking up to the voting center and a woman approached me and asked if I was a Democrat (which I am). I was a bit surprised, but said yes. She offered me a slip of paper similar to the card you described which people and issues I should vote for. I told her I was quite capable of making my own decisions and walked off.
It made me a bit sick that people try to do stuff like that. I'm sure in their own minds they're "helping," but as far as I'm concerned, they can go fark themselves.
-
He returned the comment, "It just explains the importance of voting and how the machines work." I returned, "Oh, good isea" and left it at that.
No telling where I would be today had I told him I understand exactly what was on that card.
Now that was a long time ago (early 70's). I am sure the process has been improved since then. - Skuzzy
Just last Presidential election, I saw Democrat operatives (for lack of a better word) passing out folded pamphlets to black people. This was in Pompano Beach Florida. I saw one laying on the ground nearby and picked it up. On the front was printed "Black Voter's Guide" and inside it told who or what to cast the vote on for every single item. I was under the impression that this is legal if they are kept far enough away from the poll entrance, but I remember wondering what kind of outrage there would be if someone were handing out a "White People's Voting Guide." Anyway, I think it speaks to the issue...
-
I don't doubt for a second that you saw it, Skuzzy. It's too bad that one, basic requirement for voting can't be adhered to. Maybe 'too bad' is too weak; it's disgraceful.
There must be a huge difference between seeing it first hand and reading or hearing about it. Like a dagger to the heart, I would imagine.
We have people voting who shouldn't be voting, and people who should be voting not voting for candidates who aren't worthy of being elected in the first place. It's like a bad movie.
-
All the illegals at work have ID cards and stolen SSN#'s already. They can vote all they want. The only illegals who don't have ID's already are probibly too lazy to vote anyway.
That said, last time I voted (in FL) I had to show my ID.
The only way to keep illegals from voting is to keep them out in the first place.
-
Originally posted by Rolex
I don't doubt for a second that you saw it, Skuzzy. It's too bad that one, basic requirement for voting can't be adhered to. Maybe 'too bad' is too weak; it's disgraceful.
There must be a huge difference between seeing it first hand and reading or hearing about it. Like a dagger to the heart, I would imagine.
We have people voting who shouldn't be voting, and people who should be voting not voting for candidates who aren't worthy of being elected in the first place. It's like a bad movie.
I did not elaborate on how I felt about that situation. But to sum it up. I felt like I was in a police state. I wish it were just a bad movie as the reality of it really hit hard.
-
pretty sure I have to show some ID when I vote... it's such a non-issue, it doesn't even register in my memory. So you have to pull out your driver's license when you vote.. SO WHAT?!