Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NATEDOG on November 16, 2001, 10:22:00 AM
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The "Stella" awards rank up there with the Darwin awards. "Stella"
Award: In 1994, a New Mexico jury awarded $ 2.9 million U.S. in damages to 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who suffered third-degree burns to her legs, groin and buttocks after spilling a cup of McDonald's coffee on herself. This case inspired an annual award - The "Stella" Award - for the most frivolous lawsuit in the U.S.
The ones listed below, are clear candidates. All these cases are verging
on the outright ridiculous and yet (in the good old USA) with the right
attorney you could win anything! (see OJ trial)
1. January 2000: Kathleen Robertson of Austin Texas was awarded $780,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running amuck inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little bastard was Ms. Robertson's son.
2. June 1998: A 19 year old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car, when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.
3. October 1998: A Terrence Dickson of Bristol Pennsylvania was leaving a house
he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up, because the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation. Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. Mr. Dickson sued the homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of half a
million dollars.
4. October 1999: Jerry Williams of Little Rock Arkansas was awarded $14,500 and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in it's owner's fenced-in yard, as was Mr. Williams. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog may have been provoked by Mr. Williams who, at the time, was shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun.
5. May 2000: A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson
of Lancaster, Pennsylvania $113,500 after she slipped on a soft drink and
broke her coccyx. The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson threw
it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument.
6. December 1997: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware successfully sued
the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom
window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms.Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses.
7. And just so you know that cooler heads do occasionally prevail:
Kenmore Inc., the makers of Dorothy Johnson's microwave, were found not liable for the death of Mrs. Johnson's poodle after she gave it a bath and attempted to dry it by putting the poor creature in her microwave for, "just a few minutes, on low."
The case was quickly dismissed.
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I love this country... but I truly hate lawyers that twist reason and rational thought into knots to take advantage of the law for their own benefit.
Still; this funny toejam. :)
Thanks Nate! I needed a laff.
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LMAO :D
The beagle and pellet gun story sounds familiar. When I was a kid we had 2 German Sheperds next door who would bark at anything that moved and were annoying as hell. We had a noisy screen door on the back porch and everytime someone walked out they would start up. Taking a cue from Pavlov, my dad stationed a Crossmaster 760 beside the door. Everytime he or I opened the door, we would stick the muzzle of the BB gun and pop em a good one. Sure enough, after a few weeks of that all we had to do was open the screen door and they would immediately stop barking and run inside the doghouse. That Pavlov was a smart guy.
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Some of that toejam can't be true, can it?
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Originally posted by Kratzer:
Some of that toejam can't be true, can it?
Only in America ...
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LOL! Natedog's post prompted me to stop by http://www.darwinawards.com (http://www.darwinawards.com) where I stumbled across this little gem: Cable Cut (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2001-23.html)
It is not a particularly impressive story, but I feel the Darwin Awards page doesn't do it justice. I know this because we were talking about it just last night.
In the Northwest, we have a microbrew chain called "McMenamins (http://www.mcmenamins.com/)". They specialize in buying landmark type places and converting them into bars. Some of these sites are quite spectacular. On of the bars they opened is called the "Rock Creek Tavern". Its located out Old German Town Road in the middle of nowhere. The building is 100 years old and the view is quite nice on a summer day.
One day, two customers came in that did not speak English (outside of the word "beer"). They were acting a bit odd, but the serves could not tell if they were drunk or not because the language barrier prevented them from detecting slurred speach. They decided to err on the side of caution and refused to serve the gentlemen drinks. This infuriated them and they got quite obnoxious as a result.
They inevitably realized that they weren't going to be served and stormed out. They took off in their car, and proceded down Germantown road. A patron of the "Rock Creek Tavern" had pulled out behind them and was following them out toward the highway. The car lost control and took out a power pole. One guy got out with a pair of pruning shears (the Darwin Award nominee) and was promptly killed. The other took off running across a field into the woods and was never found.
AKDejaVu
[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
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THe Dog or Cat-in-the-microwave story is a well known urban legend. That makes many of the others in the list, if not all of them, suspect. It's not that it couldn't happen...
Don't go blaming lawyers: these are jury awards in civil cases. It is consistent with these ridiculous tort awards that they're usually given by juries (and then overturned on appeal). Don't fear the lawyers in civil suits as much as the juries.
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Originally posted by Dinger:
THe Dog or Cat-in-the-microwave story is a well known urban legend. That makes many of the others in the list, if not all of them, suspect. It's not that it couldn't happen...
Don't go blaming lawyers: these are jury awards in civil cases. It is consistent with these ridiculous tort awards that they're usually given by juries (and then overturned on appeal). Don't fear the lawyers in civil suits as much as the juries.
Thats why I always preach to folks when they elect Judges in certain courts (some are appointed in higher courst, but district they are elected) make SURE you know what type of major cases these judges ALLOWED the juries to award such claims...there are WAY to many liberal judges in the country, that's why we've come down this path of doom in my opinion.
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And just to clarify, I do not mean "Liberal Judge" in the political affiliation dept., I mean as in "too liberal of judgement" or in the case of a jury, a judge can overrule a jury award.
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Lol....
Here in good old germany these poeple will not get a single buck....
Only lough of the crowd....
:D
Jv44 (Andreas)
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http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/lawsuits.htm (http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/lawsuits.htm)
Another urban legend victim.
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Originally posted by JV44:
Lol....
Here in good old germany these poeple will not get a single buck....
Only lough of the crowd....
:D
Jv44 (Andreas)
Yep, sad that America has come to "Who's got the better lawyer". :(
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heard this guy
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003766 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003766)
is suein the golf course for setting their ball washers too high :)
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Liberal as in "Adhering blindly to the Liberal Tradition according to which the constitution was written in the 18th century."
Poor founding fathers read their Blackstone, who praised above all the virtues of a trial by jury of peers in civil and criminal cases. So they enshrined it in our constitution. Meanwhile, the British figured out that it wasn't so useful in civil cases (and in many criminal ones), and gradually reduced its usage.
But we're stuck with it as part of our bill of rights.
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actually i don't think the problem is the jury system but who is sitting on it. the compensation for jury duty is so low that it is a hardship for most working people(even if you are unemployed you can't draw unemployment benifits while on jury duty so you lose income) so basicly your jury is made up of people not smart enough to figure out how to get out of jury duty.
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...and they think they are striking a blow for the little guy against big, bad corporate America. Not very bright.
bowser
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Originally posted by NATEDOG:
The "Stella" awards rank up there with the Darwin awards. "Stella"
Award: In 1994, a New Mexico jury awarded $ 2.9 million U.S. in damages to 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who suffered third-degree burns to her legs, groin and buttocks after spilling a cup of McDonald's coffee on herself.
oy :(
small clue here on why she won. Turn your water heaters up (at your own risk by golly-in fact, just pretend you did it) to 150 or higher if it will go that high. In about 24 hours you're going to have some REALLY hot water for your family. So hot that toddlers will be endangered. So hot that anyone taking a shower while the dishwasher is running might lose a few layers of skin in the seconds that it takes to move out of the spray.
Now, the coffee given to the poor lady was hotter than that. 180 degrees in fact. And, poor lass, she spilled it. And suffered 3rd degree burns. and need plastic surgery to repair the damge to her groin area.
So, by all means, decry silly awards from juries for they ARE out there. Just make sure they are silly in the first place. (omg! I have to READ!?!?)
Tex
there goes that 4th star :)
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I don't drink coffee, but most of my friends that do prefer it hot, and usually complain to the restaurant if it's not.
I have no problem with large judgments in a case of a defective product or hiding a known danger but there comes a time where people need to think for themselves.
just look at some of the stupid warning labels that are on products.
when I bought 'water-wings' for my son they actually had a label that said "not to be worn around the ankles". I think that as a society we could probably do with out anybody who would need such a warning
[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]
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FYI, 140 is considered so hot it will burn the throat and lungs.
If you drank 180-degree coffee you'd probably die; at the very least your throat and stomach would be very badly damaged. If you spilled it on you, you'd suffer severe burns. Liquid at such high temperature is well past the point of being "safe". McDonalds was clearly in the wrong.
J_A_B
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Yeah, let's settle for 20C degree coffee.
:)
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funny you say that J_A_B, cuz everyone else at that McDonalds WAS drinking the coffee, so I find it hard to believe that the coffee was that hot.
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we all pay for it through higher product and insurance costs.. you truly don't think these settlements harm the corporations do you?
there should be an intelligence test during jury selection. otherwise as it is now the lawyers just have to pick stupid jurors to pad their case..
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What's even more amazing is that Mickey D's coffee has always and still is served in styrofoam cups.
Them things will melt right quick at 180degrees.
140 is pushing it.
I find it hard to believe the cup stayed in a solid state at those temperatures.
-SW
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That Coffee was always hot as hell. I used to ask for them to put some ice in it, otherwise it would be 15 minutes before I could drink it. I think in the Stella case there were plenty of complaints on file before the injury.
It is too easy to file and even win frivolous lawsuits today, but corporations (where applicable) do have a "human life/injury" value on their products and practices. At the point your death(s) costs more than the fix is where the fix will occur. Tough luck for you.
What’s needed is intelligent reform in this area. If there is a sticker with a pictograph saying/showing "don’t dry your hair in the shower with the hair dryer," and you do, then that’s your fault. If, however, they know the dryer will short out x number of times and cause a fire, but it’s too expensive (say 20 cents a unit) to change until enough people die, then they should be reamed. And belive me, such cold equations are a reality in business.
Charon
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Originally posted by NATEDOG:
funny you say that J_A_B, cuz everyone else at that McDonalds WAS drinking the coffee, so I find it hard to believe that the coffee was that hot.
here is just ONE link for you to peruse at your leisure. :)
http://www.monttla.com/KUFM/1999/5-25-99%20comm.html (http://www.monttla.com/KUFM/1999/5-25-99%20comm.html)
Tex
there ARE more
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This stuff makes me sick, all this BS and My mother who has 3 back surgeries from the same surgeon all of them bad, leaving her crippled, she even had another doctor who would testify(pretty rare), and she couldn't get a lawyer because in California the max you can get for malpractice is 250grand!!!! No lawyers wanted to "waste their time for so little money"! We tried and tried and couldn't even find a bad lawyer!
Now my mom is 100% disabled, and lawyers pull toejam like this!
[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Gtoraii ]
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small clue here on why she won. Turn your water heaters up (at your own risk by golly-in fact, just pretend you did it) to 150 or higher if it will go that high. In about 24 hours you're going to have some REALLY hot water for your family. So hot that toddlers will be endangered. So hot that anyone taking a shower while the dishwasher is running might lose a few layers of skin in the seconds that it takes to move out of the spray.
Now, the coffee given to the poor lady was hotter than that. 180 degrees in fact. And, poor lass, she spilled it. And suffered 3rd degree burns. and need plastic surgery to repair the damge to her groin area.
So, by all means, decry silly awards from juries for they ARE out there. Just make sure they are silly in the first place. (omg! I have to READ!?!?)
Tex
Texter - let's get the facts straight, before all this Fahrenheit nonsense bacomes really scarily confusing, OK?
Water boils at 212F (SWulfe - styrofoam will not melt at 180F that's just BS :rolleyes: ). Therefore 212F is the temperature at which the coffee is brewed. Same goes for tea. Myself, I pour staright from a kettle into a mug and that's my drink there. If it's too hot to drink - I'll wait for it to cool.
Those styrofoam caps are there to prevent just that - cooling! Most people (gasp) prefer hot coffee not some lukewarm crap - that's why styrofoam is there.
It's pretty obvious that in this case McD lawyers were too arrogant and stupid and in the case of 81 year old lady vs. TheBurger Joint the jury went after "The Golden Arches" just because in this case they could...
The whole thing was discussed here before anyway but Tex - you need to get a plumber into that house of yours - if a dishwasher knocks your whole water supply off it's feet there's something seriously screwy there. Get a plumber man and children won't be scared anymore to wash their hands :D
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The lady still didn't deserve $2.9 million. That's possibly more money than she made in her lifetime of working.
Lawsuits like this aren't about punishing the company for a mistake, it's about greed. Greed of the lawyers and greed of the victims. The victim should be compensated for medical expenses, lost wages (this could get huge if the person can no longer work because of the accident), and a small amount for mental anguish. The lawyers do need to be paid for their services, but some percentage of an outrageous sum of money is pure greed on their part.
Why not make the lawsuits work for the rest of society? Take tobacco lawsuits for example. Instead of paying smokers and their lawyers gobs of liquid cash, make the tobacco companies put their "punishment monies" into cancer research. That'd be a lot more beneficial than giving someone who smoked 2 packs a day for 40 years $10 million.
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This basically sumarises the lawsuit against McDonnald's (or any corperation):
In 1993, McDonald's was unsuccessfully sued over a car accident in New Jersey. While driving, a man who had placed a milkshake between his legs, leaned over to reach into his bag of food and squeezed the milkshake container in the process. When the lid popped off and spilled half the drink in his lap, this driver became distracted and ran into another man's car. That man in turn tried to sue McDonald's for causing the accident, saying the restaurant should have cautioned the man who had hit him against eating while driving.
I guarantee the lawyers didn't even try to sue the person driving the car for one very simple reason: he didn't have enough money. In any accident such as that, lawyers will look for a big dollar victim to sue... anyone even remotely related.
I find that tactic so sleazy its simply amazing.
Perspective: A guy down the street owned a tow truck service. One day just after an ice storm, he got a call from someone that had just ran into the curb and needed to be towed. He said he'd only do it if the person had cash... and the person said they did. When he got there, the person only had a check and the tow truck driver got pissed, so he took the guy's car and left him standing in a snow storm.... wheelchair and all. The plantiff in that case was awarded a modest settlement... because it was a tow truck company.
Later the same tow truck company owner got in a disagreement with one of his drivers. To resolve the argument, the owner decided it would be prudent to gouge out the employee's eye. Once again... a modest settlement.... with the court also ordering the tow truck company owner to give up the buisness.
What happens to a company worth billions vs one worth thousands is noticeably different.
AKDejaVu
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...."What about the temperature of McDonald's coffee? After the verdict in Stella's case, investigation found that the temperature of coffee at the local Albuquerque McDonald's had been dropped to 158 degrees Fahrenheit."
And now there is another useless WARNING on the side of the cup..... there are so many warnings on so many things now, that we don't even pay attention to them anymore..... it's like car alarms, when the first came out, everytime one went off, everyone came running, and now, no one cares.
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Originally posted by -lynx-:
Texter - let's get the facts straight, before all this Fahrenheit nonsense bacomes really scarily confusing
Hmm, I'm not confused. Never maintained that brewing temperature was the problem but that serving temp was. Did that confuse you? F=C*1.8+32 is fairly easy. :)
Also, you missed the point about the shower or else you have 4" pipes throughout your domicile. I don't. <shrug>
Tex
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Originally posted by Nifty:
The lady still didn't deserve $2.9 million.
Agreed, but what she asked for was 20k. To pay her medical bills. Having been in that situation (I was dosed with ACN, a form of cyanide) I asked the offending company (A Greek shipping outfit) to pay my medical bills that totaled about 5k I think. They forced it to court and a Judge awarded me about twice that even after the lawyer took his 33%. <shrug> Willing to bet that if it wasn't a maritime case with all the rules involved there I would have gotten a ton more from a jury trial. No telling what the guy that was with me and nearly died would have gotten.
Thing is, at some point, it has to be punitive else the Borg like corporations run rampant over folks. Regular, AH flying, working folks. Or old ladies in sweatpants riding in the car with their sons.
Tex
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Originally posted by J_A_B:
McDonalds was clearly in the wrong.
If you try to drive with a recently purchased cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup between your legs then you should forfeit the right to sue if you spill it.
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If you try to drive with a recently purchased cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup between your legs then you should forfeit the right to sue if you spill it.
Blue Mako
As the site texter posted above states (which seems to have been ignored) it's not that simple. I'll repost it. Some facts to base opinions on can be found at: Facts and Fiction (http://www.monttla.com/KUFM/1999/5-25-99%20comm.html)
Charon
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"If you try to drive with a recently purchased cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup between your legs then you should forfeit the right to sue if you spill it"
Who was trying to drive? If memory serves, the lady who sued McDonalds was a passenger in her car. McDonalds sells this product through their DRIVE THRU, so obviously it SHOULD be safe if the car strikes a bump. It's not like she was attempting to steer the car AND drink at the same time.
Think about this for a minute--she had third-degree burns where it spilled on her. In non-medical terms, this means she spilled coffee in her lap and it BURNED HER SKIN OFF.
Frivolous lawsuits have a drawback, in they cause people to want to discount legitimate claims--such as this one.
NATEDOG:
I don't think anyone drank that stuff straight down the moment they bought it--sip it, let it cool, sip it again. But NOT drink it.
Take my word for it, if you drank 180 degree liquid you'd at the least suffer severe internal burns. You might well die. I work with hot liquids on a daily basis and 140 is hotter than is safe for prolonged contact. 120 is hot enough to cause burns to delicate skin. 150 will rapidly burn even a hardy individual. 180 is excessive, no way around it.
Yes, her dollar award was excessive. Yes, another useless label on the side of the coffee cups isn't doing anybody a favor. That doesn't change the fact that McDonalds was serving a needlessly dangerous product.
J_A_B
BTW, people who "boil" water on their kitchen stove are NOT drinking 200+ degree water. I don't feel like explaining thermodynamics here so if you're further interested find a book on it.
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Originally posted by Charon:
As the site texter posted above states (which seems to have been ignored) it's not that simple.
I'm sure it's not that simple. I suppose I just think that there should be less sueing and more practise of common sense. The whole flock of "ambulance chasers" appearing here in Australia is convincing me more and more that the system of law where someone is always to blame, even if you do something stupid and injure yourself, is a product of these high money cases.
I think if they want to award damages that will hurt the corporations make sure that the lawyers don't get a percentage (or cap the slice they can take to something reasonable) and that the victim gets an award that is in proportion to the damage, give the rest of the money to a hospital that treats burn victims or something...
My $0.02.
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The truth is for every 20 bazzilion dollars given to a stupid person who was just the victim of an assisination attempt by natural selection, there are many more lawsuits that actually helps all of us.
Here is a website that tracks current, big-market class-action lawsuits: http:// [url=http://www.web-access.net/~aclark/frames45.htm]http://www.web-access.net/~aclark/frames45.htm[/url][/url]
As an attorney (criminal, not civil) I'd be the first to admit that many times the whole process is out of whack. And sometimes much harm is done by outrageous awards.
But other times companies are forced to pay for unleashing unsafe products onto the public. My step-mom got implants after a double mastectomy. DOW-Corning deserved to pay big for what she went through on top of cancer. My best friend is part of a firm suing a large auto company because an unsafe design left a mother of two paralyzed. My thoughts? Tough toejam to the company.
Hopefully, with time, a balance can be reached. Too often companies just roll over rather than fight a lawsuit. This just creates more frivolous suits. But, sometimes, lawsuits that seem silly in the beginning turn out to be caused by something serious.
Until then however, for every handsomehunk there are many more people for whom a suit is the only way to get any type of recovery for a loss.
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I'm sure it's not that simple. I suppose I just think that there should be less sueing and more practise of common sense. The whole flock of "ambulance chasers" appearing here in Australia is convincing me more and more that the system of law where someone is always to blame, even if you do something stupid and injure yourself, is a product of these high money cases.
I think if they want to award damages that will hurt the corporations make sure that the lawyers don't get a percentage (or cap the slice they can take to something reasonable) and that the victim gets an award that is in proportion to the damage, give the rest of the money to a hospital that treats burn victims or something...
Blue Mako
I agree completely. Personal injusty on the non corporate level is just as bad, especially with the ads on TV looking to drum up business: "Have you bee injured at work... /Problems with a delivery... /Too many bills to pay?..." Why no, but what can you do for me at someone else's expense?
A friend of mine was almost taken to the cleaners recently by a professional car accident victim. Always seemd to arrange to get rearended and injured, what bad luck he must have :(
Charon
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Also, you missed the point about the shower or else you have 4" pipes throughout your domicile. I don't. <shrug>
Sorry Tex, didn't mean for it to come out as jerky as it did. I have a pump driving my on-suite - heaven in the morning :)
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bah, I got to use domicile in context, made my day. ;)
Tex
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: texter ]
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I'm suing HTC for turning me into an AH junkie.
I could have realy been someone if I didn't play this game so much...
With all the cash I get, I'm going to buy the best computer system that can be found... so that I can play AH, of course.
I hope they can still afford to stay in business after I get my settlement...
Hmmm...
eskimo