Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Ball on September 30, 2006, 06:25:36 AM
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Hello,
What is the best plane for a new guy? What would you recommend that i fly?
Thank you.
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I'd recommend the spits. They are a good all around plane, kind of a jack of all trades.
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I recommend a P-38 or P-51. They're not as hard to fly as a P-47, but they're harder than a Spitfire or Hurricane and therefore will make you a better pilot eventually. I started out on an Me-109 in a different game, then moved on to P-40 when the developer added it and then P-38. If you want to have instant success, by all means choose Spitfire. Just know that the plane will do a lot of the work for you, and you'll probably never become as good of a pilot as someone who learned on a tougher fighter.
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Hello Ball, welcome to Aces High! :)
As good plane to start in, I usually recommend the Spitfire Mk8 or Mk9 or a F6F.
They have a good overall performance and forgive the odd mistake. They also are both able to be flown in various "styles", from strictly BnZ to stallfight. They are in no way a "crutch" - to fly them well and successfully still will require effort without being too frustrating though. Also, its less about what you fly, its more HOW you fly it.
That doesnt mean you cant start out in other planes - whats more important than the plane choice in itself is the fact that you should STICK to one plane for the beginning. That will enable you to learn its strenghts and weaknesses, to get a feel for the edge of the envelope of performance. At the beginning its already hard enough to remember what your opponents plane is able of, let alone keep the comparison to your own if you switch constantly.
You can find a short rundown on almost any plane in the set at
Sodas Aircraft Page (http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm). For more detailed performance charts and comparisons, check out Dok Gonzos Page (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php).
A good page to get started on flying and fighting tactis as well as lots of other info, tips and more is Hammer's Net Aces (http://www.netaces.org). Also, if you play online, come by the Training Arena for practical help from Trainers or Vets. If you want to set up a training session with a Trainer, just email us at trainers@hitechcreations.com. Let us know when youre available (time zone!) and what your ingame name is. It also helps if you give some additional info on what youre using as controller and what youd like to work on.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
you'll probably never become as good of a pilot as someone who learned on a tougher fighter.
I started to learn this game in a Spitfire Mk5 ;).
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I'd recommend the spits. They are a good all around plane, kind of a jack of all trades.
Agreed.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I started to learn this game in a Spitfire Mk5 ;).
I think our Lady friend is calling out "Benny" to prove a point..... where do ya want the flowers sent to Benny? :D
...back on topic... Schatzi has the best advice. Starting with the "easier" planes will help you get started. The spits, and the F6F are planes, that like Benny says, "do the work for you" will give you a chance to fly and work on learning some manuves, watch and learn what enemies are doing and so on because your spending all your time trying to keep your plane in the air.
Once you have a fell for things and start getting kill more often than one a night :) you can move up to the planes that are a bit tougher to handle.
Good luck, and welcome to Aces High...your new addiction !
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Schatzi--They have a good overall performance and forgive the odd mistake
wow !! I fly the F6F alot, and I do make alot of "odd mistakes"... coincidence?... I think not!:D
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
wow !! I fly the F6F alot, and I do make alot of "odd mistakes"... coincidence?... I think not!:D
:D
If you want to *force* yourself to "loose" those mistakes.... may i recommend flying P40B, C202 or SpitMk1?
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Well, I respectfully disagree. I became a "hot rock" a lot sooner doing it the hard way than I would have flying a Spitfire. A good P-47 pilot can always hop in a Spitfire and kick butt in it ("wow, this is easy!"), but a good Spitfire pilot can't just hop in a Thunderbolt and expect to not come to ruin. In short, a P-47 pilot knows just about everything a Spitfire pilot knows, and a lot more besides.
Roman soldiers trained with forty pound shields and six pound swords, so that when they went into battle with twenty pound shields and three pound swords they would consider them very light indeed.
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I tend to agree with Benny... too many stay in the 'easy mode' aircraft long after any their training wheels have been lost, stifling normal skill progression.
No matter what you decide, stick with one aircraft when you are learning the game, it will take less time if you do that.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Roman soldiers trained with forty pound shields and six pound swords, so that when they went into battle with twenty pound shields and three pound swords they would consider them very light indeed.
I fully agree. But if you cant CARRY a 40 pound shield and give up because things are just to hard, youll never fight at all.
Aces High is a *game* and should be a fun passtime. Making things too hard at first might work for some, but not for all. Sure, flying P40B will teach you a lot, since its very probable youll pay for every mistake with your virtual life - but frustration is *hindering* learning processes. Also, its hard to judge for a complete newbie to flight sims (as i was btw) what moves work or dont work in a general sense, if they maybe just dont work in the specific plane/situation youre flying.
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I'm sorry i didn't mean to start a fight.
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Originally posted by Ball
I'm sorry i didn't mean to start a fight.
LoL, dont worry. Were "discussing", not fighting. :) This just shows that the question you asked isnt as easily answered as one might think. There are a lot of different approaches on how, why and with what means to go about learning this game.
I hope you found the answer to your question in this thread? If not *we* have to apologize and will try to clarify.
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Ball I'm a 4 monther and I'd say Schatzi is right. I started out in the 38 because I have just loved the plane from the first time I saw it. I stalled a lot and its a big target if you're not pretty well versed in ACM. I dropped back to a 51 but couldn't resist trying to turnfight with it and again got my prettythang handed to me regularly. Fortunately for me I joined a squad and a lot of the more experienced guys helped me out a lot learning those planes but I haven't been flying them lately and have dropped back to the spit for MA and whatever is called for in the special events I fly. If I had to do it over again I'd start with a spit and work my way up.
Regardless either way you go I'm sure that most of the people here wish you the best. Get setup with a trainer in the TA as soon as you can because that will help you a LOT. Oh and if you ever see me in the TA feel free to give me a shout and I'll fly with you. Can't teach you much more than the basics but I'm a really good target
The best thing you can do is ask questions.. LOTS of questions. You'll always get an answer. Oh and lastly.. film your fights and review them. See what you did that set you up right or wrong and learn from it :aok
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Originally posted by Ball
I'm sorry i didn't mean to start a fight.
It's not your fault Ball. Schatzi always argues with everybody. :cry
:rofl
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i reccomend P-38 tog et the training wheels off because it easy to takeoff easy to fly but tough to master.:cool: Then switch to the Yak9u for further training for if you can get 2 or 3 kills in that plane you can get 3 or 4 in any other.
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I do NOT recommend going straight to a spitfire. I did and it screwed me up a bit. You'll be too used to flying easy and when it comes time for another plane you'll be screwed. Spits can do amazing things and turn with a hurri 2c and zeke for a few moments. Problem is all spits are easy except the Spit 1, 8 has a pretty good turn and normal roll. I would recommend if ANY spit, a 9 or 8, 16 just has super fast roll and is dweebish
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are you calling me a dweeb sir? ;)
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Ball,
A couple of questions for you.
1. Have you ever flown a flight sim before?
2. Does level bombing sound enjoyable?
3. Do you want to just step in and dogfight?
Each of the planes they have listed will do you fine. Each has strengths and weaknesses(sp). If you have never flown a flight sim and need some basic flight training and gunnery skills I would suggest a P-38. The guns are center mounted making convergence less of a worry and the torque effect isn't as bad as some of the other planes.
If you have basic flight skills down and some experience in a flight sim then you need to ask yourself what kind of learning curve do I want? Spits, Hurri, Zekes will get you into fights easily, are somewhat forgiving and you can "yank" the stick to a point and still get some kills. You can learn alot of ACM in these planes and have some fun along the way. If you want to take the harder road and sometimes less traveled and have abit of patience then grab a p51, 109, 190. These will have you spending more time keeping your "E" and teaching you not to just dive in, yank the stick and go in circles unti someone wins, because most the time you won't win this fight. I think you can learn alot of finesse in the energy fighters. IMO a person that can learn in an E fighter can play in a turn and burn fighter fairly easily. The opposite is not always true. P47, F4U, and some others are quite unforgiving to a new pilot and I really would suggest something else besides these planes.
If you are intersted in bombing and flying the big planes then all of the above doesn't really apply. I used to know guys in here that spent 90% of there time flying B-17s and loving every minute of it. If you saw thier scoring you would see maybe an hour a month total in a fighter and then they didn't score very many kills vs deaths. This is fine as this game offers choices to everyone :D
I would say that if you decide to give the E fighters a whirl to start don't be afraid if you are getting frustrated to jump in a turner just go whack someone and then come back.
Don't be afraid to contact the training corp and set up some time learning the Aircraft and the basics. These guys/gals are damn good at what they do and can help you out alot!
Welcome to a wonderful game than can pose huge addiction problems and become an intergral part of your life :p
S!
Rocket
P.s. If you hadn't noticed you probably asked the hardest question you can ask around here. Everyone has their own choices and opinions. Read through, absorb everything you can and you will be able to make well informed decisions at the minimum :)
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Niki. Decent speed, decent turn, decent visibility, very decent guns and an obscene amount of 20mm ammo. Something else that should be considered for "My First Plane" is over the nose visibility for deflection shots and the Niki's pretty good in that area. My only concern would be some negative training from all the ammo...this could lead some new guys to believe "spray and pray" is a valid gunnery technique. The advantage though is that you have plenty of ammo to refine your gunnery skills.
Mace
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109K-4,really nothing else need to be said.Slow scissors fight a properly flown 109 will win against most any plane in the game and will destroy all american planes without exception.
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Rocket... I think you had the best answer to his question overall
Sir :aok
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I seen Ball in action today , and he's really good :) Thanks again matie
Really best all around plane in game is Spit 16 IMO and it's a hoot for me to fly .
Wat's wrong with comfort planes btw ? I "work" hard enough at my RL job :P hehe . I just want to have some laughs and chat while being with guys that feel the same .
Question for Ball , do u have a mic yet ?
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Originally posted by Creton
109K-4,really nothing else need to be said.Slow scissors fight a properly flown 109 will win against most any plane in the game and will destroy all american planes without exception.
With all due respect, the K-4 (or any 109 for that matter), although very capable, isn't a beginner's aircraft. Flying qualities, compression, slats, marginal visibility, crapy over the nose visibility...actually crapy forward vis all together makes this plane more challenging and probably discouraging for new pilots. Your comment about a slow scissors is debatible, but the K-4 isn't really a plane I'd recommend to a beginner.
Mace
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rumer has it Ball = furballs shade .
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no crap, get a life man.:huh
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Actually, it is not a shade and i have been freely admitting it is me when asked - this is not a new account it is just my normal one renamed. Since yesterday i have even put it in my squad name to save any confusion.
It is interesting to see the attitude of people towards players who have handles they do not recognise in the MA, been getting some big time abuse, i even got put down for landing kills - as if i wasnt allowed or something. I got challenged to DA 3 times yesterday, as Furball i can only remember 1 or 2 times ever. Also someone in the SEA Arena PM'd me after i asked if i still had time to up, and basically told me to **** off because it is a closed event. It is a nice change to have the friendly helpful attitude towards a newbie.
thanks, all.
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Originally posted by Ball
Actually, it is not a shade and i have been freely admitting it is me when asked - this is not a new account it is just my normal one renamed. Since yesterday i have even put it in my squad name to save any confusion.
It is interesting to see the attitude of people towards players who have handles they do not recognise in the MA, been getting some big time abuse, i even got put down for landing kills - as if i wasnt allowed or something. I got challenged to DA 3 times yesterday, as Furball i can only remember 1 or 2 times ever. Also someone in the SEA Arena PM'd me after i asked if i still had time to up, and basically told me to **** off because it is a closed event. It is a nice change to have the friendly helpful attitude towards a newbie.
thanks, all.
Welcome to Aces High, Ball ;).
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Originally posted by Ball
Actually, it is not a shade and i have been freely admitting it is me when asked - this is not a new account it is just my normal one renamed. Since yesterday i have even put it in my squad name to save any confusion.
It is interesting to see the attitude of people towards players who have handles they do not recognise in the MA, been getting some big time abuse, i even got put down for landing kills - as if i wasnt allowed or something. I got challenged to DA 3 times yesterday, as Furball i can only remember 1 or 2 times ever. Also someone in the SEA Arena PM'd me after i asked if i still had time to up, and basically told me to **** off because it is a closed event. It is a nice change to have the friendly helpful attitude towards a newbie.
thanks, all.
Dear god, yet another name to fear...
And as to the 109s, yes, those are not begginers planes. I made the mistake of trying, and have still yet to learn a thing because I am constantly shot down. Still love them, but cannot fly them (Ask furbie/ball, he pwned me in a G14 with a TBM)
I like the P-40E, simply because of the ammo compared to a 109K which I was used to.
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Originally posted by Ball
Actually, it is not a shade and i have been freely admitting it is me when asked - this is not a new account it is just my normal one renamed. Since yesterday i have even put it in my squad name to save any confusion.
LOL at least you could add an S to your ID. You'd be twice of what you're now ;)
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I started to learn this game in a Spitfire Mk5 ;).
me too :aok
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No one has mentioned the Ki-84. I chose it as my starter plane from several recommended by a friend and after reading Soda's writeups. I can't say I'm doing well in it but I attrtribute that more to my lack of skill than to the airplane. It doesn't seem to be hard to fly and manuever but then the only others I've flown in AH are the 109F and the Tempest and I found both harder to fly.
Did I make a bad choice?
I have found it tends to shed critical parts in high speed dives but usually not below 475-500mph.
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Spitfire MkV is and always will be the best starter plane.
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Originally posted by Condor
Did I make a bad choice?
[/b]
No.
I have found it tends to shed critical parts in high speed dives but usually not below 475-500mph. [/B]
That is one of the reasons i usually dont recommend it. The others are rather crappy guns, bad high speed handling (ie throttle work required!) and it isnt very durable when shot at (catches fire easily). Also, to turn well, the Ki needs working the flaps.
It however does turn well (low speed + flaps) and is very good in the vertical. Well flown its among the most dangerous planes in the set.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
Spitfire MkV is and always will be the best starter plane.
I agree as in it is the best handling Spit of the bunch. I usually forgo it in recomendation because of its now reduced boost and mainly the low ammo load - with a low hit% its hard to get more then one kill with it.
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with a low hit% its hard to get more then one kill with it.
it's not about the kills, it's about learning to get kills.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
That is one of the reasons i usually dont recommend it. The others are rather crappy guns, bad high speed handling (ie throttle work required!) and it isnt very durable when shot at (catches fire easily). Also, to turn well, the Ki needs working the flaps.
It however does turn well (low speed + flaps) and is very good in the vertical. Well flown its among the most dangerous planes in the set.
All true (although the guns really aren't that bad....except when compared to Hizookas). Note that Widewing first found that it is very important NOT to use combat trim in the Ki84, and this can make it even more difficult for a new player to use.
That said, I'm convinced that the Ki84 is the best close-in dogfighter in the game.
- oldman
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Schatzi,
I knew more or less how you would respond since you have encouraged me before. I didn't realize the guns were crappy or that flaps use was so critical. That's kind of limiting since thety can't be deployed much above 160mph.
I was hoping to get some other input but this thread is becoming a discussion of which Spit is best. Of course, maybe that is all the input I need. Perhaps I should have started with a Spit.
I think I'll stick with the Ki for now. I'm getting kind of attached to it. Besides it and I have a common trait. I also tend to fall apart under extreme stress.:) Besides, the Spits have that funny trun and bank indicator.
What I really wanted to fly was the La-7 but that gets booed every time it's mentioned. It was one of my favorite WWII fighters long before I joined the sim world and I found it fairly easy to fly in my brief experience with IL-2. In spite of it's rep I got shot down a lot in it too. I've just gotta learn to fly.:)
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Oldman,
Thanks for the tip on the combat trim. I use it all the time. I thought that was the best way to start out. I'll have to try not using it. Does anyone else have tips on how to get the most out ofthe Ki-84?
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
it's not about the kills, it's about learning to get kills.
Sometimes its also about not getting frustrated.... :)
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Condor:
Keep using combat trim for now. You have much more other stuff to worry about for now.... combat trim vs manual isnt going to make a difference for you (yet). Basic maneuvers, speed/Energy management and timing are a lot more important.
The La is much like the Ki IMHO. A great performer, but not very easy to fly well. Sure, you can HO-n-run in the LA, even get kills and/or rank that way... but thats not what i mean. If you ever have run across guys like Shane or HARR flying the La, youll know what i mean. In the La7, even more then the Ki, throttle work is critical, also flaps. Then its a beast in a close up stallfight, that can use its superior accelleration whenever it wishes to.
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Sometimes its also about not getting frustrated...
The spit v is the easiest plane to fly and the easiest plane to learn AcM in.
Most new pilots don't understand technical jargon and do not wanna understand it.They just want the eastiest plane to learn in which since AH-1 has to be the Spit MKv.
I was hoping to get some other input but this thread is becoming a discussion of which Spit is best.
I thought it was a thread about which is the best learning plane.Next to a spit v it would be an A6m-2.
Keep using combat trim for now. You have much more other stuff to worry about for now.... combat trim vs manual isnt going to make a difference for you
Learning manual trim from the beginning helps the new cadet accelerate in his or her learning ability.Anyone who disagree's only does so because then the Cadet will not b as easy to kill and getting kills and wtg's for those kills is what it's all about to some.
Every Cadet i have helped set up trim control and showed the usage of has accelerated in learning faster than normal.Tr1gg is a perfect example of this.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
it's not about the kills, it's about learning to get kills.
First you get ze keelz... zen you get ze respect... zen you get ze vimen!
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zen you get ze respect
in a video game......o......k then
First you get ze keelz
Not always.If a cadet wants to learn to b a good fighter in aces high, one should fly all the fighters on the list in the hanger starting with the A6m-2.Fly each plane for a week or 2 weeks, at the end of that time frame you will know the psitives and negatives of that aircraft.After that plane work your way down the list.By the time you get done flying the Yak-9u you will have a way broader outlook and know how to approach, set up, and fight every fighter you encounter.
All the Acm moves are the same, it's just that each fighter does those moves differently than the others, some better than others.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
in a video game......o......k then
you didn't seem to do too badly in that department did you??? :rolleyes:
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Well Sweet2th, looks like we disagree largely on this subject.
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Well Sweet2th, looks like we disagree largely on this subject.
Thats not a bad thing now is it? you have your way and i have mine.
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Keep using combat trim for now. You have much more other stuff to worry about for now.... combat trim vs manual isnt going to make a difference for you (yet). Basic maneuvers, speed/Energy management and timing are a lot more important
Schatzi,
Thanks for adding the yet. It's reassuring. You've seen me fly so I have confidence in your opinion of what I need to work on. I know I'm still at the very basic skills level.
Actually I'm not reconsidering the use of combat trim so much as my choice of planes. The message I'm getting is that the Ki-84 is harder to fly than I realized at first. I happen belong to the same school of thought as you. A new pilot should learn to fly in an easy plane and then move up to the more difficult. That's how real pilots do it and that's how we approach just about everything else in life.
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Originally posted by Condor
Schatzi,
Thanks for adding the yet. It's reassuring. You've seen me fly so I have confidence in your opinion of what I need to work on. I know I'm still at the very basic skills level.
Actually I'm not reconsidering the use of combat trim so much as my choice of planes. The message I'm getting is that the Ki-84 is harder to fly than I realized at first. I happen belong to the same school of thought as you. A new pilot should learn to fly in an easy plane and then move up to the more difficult. That's how real pilots do it and that's how we approach just about everything else in life.
Condor, if you have fun with the Ki-84, there is no reason to ditch it whatsoever. Its a good plane. As long as you dont get frustrated with your progress in it, all is as it should be :).
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The message I'm getting is that the Ki-84 is harder to fly than I realized at first.
When taking 50% to 100% fuel load out in the Ki-84 drain the Center tank first, the majority of the fuel is stored there, draining it first will allow the Ki-84 to be way more nimble.With fuel management and the use of elevator trim the Ki-84 is very hard to climb against, and it's second in climbing to the G-2 or a K-4 109.
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Originally posted by Ball
Hello,
What is the best plane for a new guy? What would you recommend that i fly?
Thank you.
I think you should stick with the SE5 since you did such good work in it Albert :)
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I'm migrating to harder to fly planes now (P-51D is a favorite and when I'm ready to die now, I'll go to the P-40). But for my money, the Niccki and LA-7 have given me the most enjoyable learning experience on AH because I could jump right in and be somewhat successful. The Niccki has some dangerous cannons with lots of ammo, and it climbs well and does well in furballs. The LA-7, while lacking rounds, has good cannons that shoot through the nose and when you piss off a good enemy flyer, you can usually get on the deck and outrun him/her to save your life. Then when they're getting low on ammo or fuel and head for the barn, you can try to chase them down to spoil their run. Yes, I know it's not the best sportsmanship, but it's great fun for the new flyer (and the number of "sportsmen" out there seems to be dwindling).
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Originally posted by Creton
109K-4,really nothing else need to be said.Slow scissors fight a properly flown 109 will win against most any plane in the game and will destroy all american planes without exception.
+1
oh and
:noid :noid :noid
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LA7 had ALOT of cannon rounds.
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True, but only if you are light on the trigger! No spray 'n pray...
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
Not always.If a cadet wants to learn to b a good fighter in aces high, one should fly all the fighters on the list in the hanger starting with the A6m-2.Fly each plane for a week or 2 weeks, at the end of that time frame you will know the psitives and negatives of that aircraft.After that plane work your way down the list.By the time you get done flying the Yak-9u you will have a way broader outlook and know how to approach, set up, and fight every fighter you encounter.
All the Acm moves are the same, it's just that each fighter does those moves differently than the others, some better than others.
pretty decent way of going about it, true it would be a broader outlook, not to keen on letting players "assume" after only a week or 2 weeks that they would be positively sure on how to approach, set up, and fight every fighter they encounter.
my personal view: it would take a minimal of 4 to 6 months to TRULY know all the positives and negatives of a single aircraft type, and then even sometimes the characteristics might get changed up.........after this one must find their way thru the countless hours of fights to gain the necessary experience to figure they have seen just about every type of match up possible while flying this plane, from here is when it might be time to step up to a different ride, only to start over again. Hardly anyone does this type of thing anymore, though. Most pick a favorite ride, and casually jump into other plane types from time to time and read up on what others post about the different plane types and gather their on conclusions, this is until they crack down hard and decide to TRULY learn all they can AT their own possible pace..........
how do you think all them godly type top notch fiter pile-its in the game got so good? I promise you they took longer than 2 weeks in 1 plane type
now a question? how would say a bf109F4 fly a Hi yo-yo BFM differently than say a P-51D?
Sweet2th, I guess we disagree also, but it is a good thing to get different perspective views of training-practice/game play/one's thought process.........
back to my opening line: pretty decent way of going about it, true it would be a broader outlook,
~SALUTE~
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/one's thought process.........
<---- This thought process is brought to you in part by,
Royal Blunts ---Next time your rollin your own, make it a Royal Blunt.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/902_1159944025_big_watermelon.jpg)
A real BIG shout for the guy named HO-Say down the street can't forget him.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
that the plane will do a lot of the work for you, and you'll probably never become as good of a pilot as someone who learned on a tougher fighter.
That statement is incorrect. Just because you can do good in a Spitfire doesn't mean you won't be able to do as good in a plane that is a little more difficult to fly. ACM is ACM no matter what plane you are in. It is the pilot not the plane that makes the kills.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Well, I respectfully disagree. I became a "hot rock" a lot sooner doing it the hard way than I would have flying a Spitfire. A good P-47 pilot can always hop in a Spitfire and kick butt in it ("wow, this is easy!"), but a good Spitfire pilot can't just hop in a Thunderbolt and expect to not come to ruin. In short, a P-47 pilot knows just about everything a Spitfire pilot knows, and a lot more besides.
Again, another incorrect statement.
ack-ack
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I was going to keep this 2 cents but most of the responses in this thread have been from experienced flyers. Maybe the experience of a newbie will be helpful. I picked the Ki-84 thinking that, although it was not as easy to fly as a Spit, it was not much harder. Some of the responses in this thread convinced me to climb out of the Ki-84 and try a Spit last night. I now know that the Spit isn’t just a little easier to fly but is a lot easier to fly than the Ki (at least for a newbie like me). I have no doubt, as Schatzi and others have said, that the Ki is one of the most effective fighters in the sim when flown properly. That qualifier “when flown properly” however, is critical to a new sim pilot like me. My first priority is to learn to fly period, and after my experience last night I think I’m more likely to accomplish that in a Spit. I deliberately did maneuvers that would have put the Ki in the dirt (at least with me as the pilot) and learned the Spit is a lot more forgiving than the Ki. The Spit will actually pull out of a dive when I want it to. I ended up as a lawn dart quite a few times in the Ki because it wouldn’t. A split-S in the Ki often became a well drilling exercise. I did split-S in the Spit at altitudes I would never attempt in the Ki and had much better control of the altitude at which I exited the dive. Stalls in a Spit are much less abrupt vs. the Ki and seem much less likely to result in spins. From my limited experience spin recovery is easier in a Spit. I only crashed the spit once last night. I would have been taking off again many more times in the Ki if I had been flying it like I flew the Spit. And before someone says it, I know what I was doing last night was not “learning to fly properly”. But new pilots make mistakes and it’s a lot less frustrating if I can recover and keep the plane in the air. It also permits me to try whatever I was doing again while what happened is fresh in my mind. I’ve had more than enough practice taking off after crashes or being shot down and it wastes a lot of time I could be spending on other skills.
I am not saying the Spit is the best plane for someone new to the sim because I’ve flown very few planes but I’m convinced it’s a better choice than the Ki and that most if not all new pilots will learn faster in one of the more easy to fly planes. I think I would be further along if I had started with a Spit or another easy to fly plane. When learning new things it’s generally wise to follow the KISS principle until some skill is developed. So that’s the opinion of a newbie of about 5 weeks for what it’s worth. What’s that term? Spitdweeb? I guess that will be me for a while.
:)
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Well said Condor. I think your analysis is dead on.
One of the great things about AH IMHO is that all the planes are NOT basically the same. There are real differences here. I'm not totally convinced that the Spits are the "uber rides" that many claim they are (they do have weaknesses that can be exploited) but they are definitely much more forgiving than most.
There are two swings of emotion I get concerning Spits. After several hours of flying a Dora and having to so carefully line up my shots, I can get in a Spit16 and am amazed at the "laser beam" gunnery. It is great joy to pick off deflection shots that I had no chance of making in the 190. On the flip side is getting owned by every red icon in sight and switching to the Spit in order to get "some relief" only to have the total domination of my soul continue. Now that is demoralizing and a very common occurrence for me. I am proof that the Spit alone does not make for a "uber" experience.
Yet another emotional swing is to blow the wings off some Spit with a Dora or 109G2! To me, there is no greater joy than to have some turning and burning Spit fail to escape the business end of my Dora! I squeal like a little girl! To borrow a phrase:
"I live for that!"
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
ACM is ACM no matter what plane you are in. It is the pilot not the plane that makes the kills.
ack-ack
Spot on.
I learned ACM in a Hurricane, then just adapted it to everything i fly. Worked for me.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I recommend a P-38 or P-51. They're not as hard to fly as a P-47, but they're harder than a Spitfire or Hurricane and therefore will make you a better pilot eventually. I started out on an Me-109 in a different game, then moved on to P-40 when the developer added it and then P-38. If you want to have instant success, by all means choose Spitfire. Just know that the plane will do a lot of the work for you, and you'll probably never become as good of a pilot as someone who learned on a tougher fighter.
I came to this game with 5+ years in the P-38 from another sim, and a number of tournement wins in a variety of planes. I did not jump in the P-38 full time immediately. I spent quite a bit of time in the n1k and spit9 the first few months. My goal was to get seat time to feel out the flight model and learn the quirks specific to AH.
Its counter-productive to send someone out in a non-easymode plane to learn the basics of flight, ACM, and become proficient with all the view and key controls. A n00b is going to crash and get shot down enough as it is. My view is to try to recommend the tools that will at least keep them alive the longest to maximize the experienced gained. Once they get a handle on the basics, then they can move on to planes that take more advanced strategies to be sucessful in.
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Originally posted by Ball
Spot on.
I learned ACM in a Hurricane, then just adapted it to everything i fly. Worked for me.
He has a point. He is damned scary in a TBM!
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I say use a P-38 for the training arena especially to help with takeoffs and landings. For it is probably the easiest to do it in it. Then learn basic ACM's view controls trim controls ina spit and test it in it. Then once you have that down use the Yak9u until you get a steady kill rate in it.
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Okay, I am the worst fighter pilot in the game, and I need to make 200 perks ASAP. What plane and arena?
(<--- just lost a 262 to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and is now crying in a corner desperately trying to regain lost perk points)
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if you concintrate on perk points, you'll NEVER have any. Don't fly the uber planes, as they give you no points, but don't fly the harder planes as you won't get any kills.
Fly the intermediate planes, f6, f4u1, p38g, learn to fly and fight, perk points will come along. Perk planes aren't all that great anyway as in most cases you'll draw a horde :)
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
if you concintrate on perk points, you'll NEVER have any. Don't fly the uber planes, as they give you no points, but don't fly the harder planes as you won't get any kills.
Fly the intermediate planes, f6, f4u1, p38g, learn to fly and fight, perk points will come along. Perk planes aren't all that great anyway as in most cases you'll draw a horde :)
I know, I never fly any perk planes 'cept the 262 and 234. I just want to earn back all those points I lost in one flight. I was actually thinking of flying the 38G.
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Hurricane IIC. Deadly, lots of fun, lots of points. I don't really care much about perks so I haven't checked since the change but believe you'd get more points in the LW arena since there are lots more "high value" planes like Spit 16s to kill but you're also being chased all the time by LA's, Pony's, etc. Keep your eye on your six and you'll be OK. It's been a while since I checked but I know I landed many 40-50pt flights in the MA with the Hurri so you should be able to rack up some decent points.
Mace
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Dogfighting and the skills associated with it are like walking, climbing a ladder or building a house. Start at the bottom and work your way up.
When you learned to walk did your parents enter you in a marathon? I hope not.
When climbing a ladder do you start at the top? Nope.
When building a house what comes first the roof or the foundation? Hopefully the foundation.
A 'first ride' should be easy enough to let you do many various things in it and should be able cover the whole spectrum of maneuvers. You want to lay that foundation of basic skills, learn various maneuvers, improve your situational awareness, learn about gunnery, hit and shoot down a plane or two, and have some fun, this being a game.
Spitfires are good for that. We also have the different models that you can transition to without to much trouble which helps that foundation your trying to build. We have slow Spits and fast Spits. Land based Spits and carrier based Spits. Spits with good guns and Spits with weak guns.
Once your foundation is built and solid, you can then add the walls, that being other plane types and then learn their strengths and weaknesses. Learn what types of maneuvers or fighting style works and doesn't work with each plane.
Some people like to learn the basics of everyplane we have and their house ends up to be 80 stories with a roof. Others like to master every plane we have and that ends up being 80 stories without the roof. There is no limit there and it can take a long time to put a roof on that house. Other like to add additions off to the side and specialise in a certain crate and furnish that romm to the hilt. Still others like a simple one room house and stay in the Spitfires.
You determine what 'house' you fly in Aces High. And don't forget, you can always remodel it :)
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YAk9U
Can out manouver what it cant outrun and vise versa.
Good views make it gentle on the situation awarness.
Low ammo count forces you to learn to aim as opposed to a high ammo Nikki for example that allows you to spray and pray.
Tex
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Another good thing about Spits as a 'first plane'.
With the present arena setup of EWA, MWA and LWA you can fly one in every arena.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
YAk9U
Can out manouver what it cant outrun and vise versa.
Good views make it gentle on the situation awarness.
Low ammo count forces you to learn to aim as opposed to a high ammo Nikki for example that allows you to spray and pray.
Tex
Evil little planes those are. I saw one snap-roll and dive out so fast I couldnt think of following...:O
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Ohh yes the snap roll... I had almost forgotten about that manouver.... great in both Yak9s and La5s...
Tex
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This thread is the biggest troll I've ever seen:rofl
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At the risk of looking dumb, I have to ask; What does troll mean in this context? :confused:
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At the risk of looking dumb, I have to ask; What does troll mean in this context?
insert energizer bunny---->
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Originally posted by Condor
At the risk of looking dumb, I have to ask; What does troll mean in this context? :confused:
Using a fishing analogy, putting bait in the water and trolling around in your boat to see what bites.
Posting some rather stupid and pointless thing to see who replies to it.
Some use fresh bait, others use old stinky bait that no fish would ever think of nibbling on.
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Fuzeman,
Thanks for the answer with not attempt to beliitle me for asking. I sure bit but, then being new, I didn't find the topic pointless. I'm sure it's been dragged out too many times for those of you who have been around for a while.:)
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Well anytime you say 'best' its way to subjective and people may or may not have strong opinions on it.
My definition was the black and white of it, not necessarily saying this question was a troll.
When I was a Trainer, this question would come up quite often and in a way it is a valid question.
My usual answer was 'there is no best plane' becasue the pilot effects the fight so much.
A 'very good' pilot in a 'bad' plane usually beats a 'bad' pilot in the 'best' plane.
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Agree fuze. Also.... "best plane" for what purpose? For a low and slow stallfight? For BnZ style E-fight? For low and slow E-fight? For high alt intercept or for lawn mowing? For attacking a base? For flattening town/running CAP?.......
Aside from this really being a troll..... the question asked is a very valid one. "best plane to start in". Also, as you can see - hot topic, among players as well as among trainers. I guess the answer just isnt set in stone, its always an individual one that, taking into account a few things, everyone has to answer for him/herself.
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Have we figured out whom Ball is yet?
(haha! didn't hook me)
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Originally posted by WMLute
Have we figured out whom Ball is yet?
(haha! didn't hook me)
Reread the thread ;).
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Originally posted by WMLute
Have we figured out whom Ball is yet?
(haha! didn't hook me)
i will give you a clue, fill in the blanks: -
F U _ _ A L L
:D
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Fun mall? *** Yall? Fud Call? Fut ball?:D