Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 47Hooker on October 02, 2006, 08:39:45 AM
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First off, I KNOW...it's been hashed out before, but this is really ruining this game for me. I have read a "because you saw it" reply elsewhere, but how can you not see it? I try to pull up/down and avoid, but keep getting taken out by people ramming me. Yet sometimes they FLY OFF?!!?!?! THAT is what bothers me. This game is pretty much as real as it gets behind a screen....except for collisions.
Argue all you want about how it is right now, but you cannot argue with physics. Two similar (delicate) objects collide at a closing speed of 600 to 800 and one gets destroyed and the other escapes unharmend.:rolleyes:
I have been on the "good end" of a collision a few times as well. The other guy loses a wing and I keep on trucking....it's BS. We BOTH should be confetti.
I play this game because it is pretty damn realistic. I don't like fantasy games or I would be playing World of Warcraft.
Two aircraft hitting each other head on at high speed results in two completely destroyed aircraft. Anything else is FANTASY.
Still don't think so? I challenge you this: Find me just ONE account of two real aircraft colliding HEAD ON at cruise speed and having anything other than complete destruction of both aircraft result. Just one......anyone?
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I think the "you saw" explanation gets people confused. Rather, your computer put out different data than his. Lets look at this as if it weren't an online game.
You're flying along and this guy turns into you. You try to pull up, but his wing scrapes through you. You go down and he flies off.
Now, pretend you're the other guy. You turn in on this guy flying level. You realize that you're about to bash your wingtip into him, so you wildly roll the aircraft. You get the message he collided with you and fly off.
Now figure in net lag. The amount of time that it took for that guy to roll his wings is much longer than how long it took to send that data along the internet and have your computer process it. You computer doesn't know he rolled, detects the collision, and provides you with damage.
If collisions were "realistic" in the terms of physics, the guys with the crappy internet would just be buzzing around mowing people down by flying in their own sector. How would you like to see a guy pass as much as 300 yards to your right (he watches himself go through you on his screen) and you suddenly explode? That would generate many many more whines than the current system.
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Originally posted by 47Hooker
First off, I KNOW...it's been hashed out before,
Yes it has, thousands of times. It is what it is and HT has explained why it's that way. Only so much realism can be coded into the game and the internet is what it is.
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Until the past couple of months I never saw a collision that looked like I should have survived and the other guy died. But recently its happened twice. One was a 90 degree deflection right in front of me..he went past..then blew up and it said he collided.
The other was where we were in a close fight and he just missed me (my view) but apparantly his end saw him get too close. He died, I didnt feel a thing. I get the damage in relation to what I see. If it looked like a hit..Im diead or damaged. The other guy might not have seen it as such.
The best thing to do is, if you can see his spinner, slow down and let him whiz by rather than go for that shot.
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ok, quick explanation:
if you collide with someone, it means that you've collided with them on your screen, ie, your PC has registered that you've gone and rammed someone, or they have rammed you.
now, if you collide, and they dont, it means that on the other guy's PC, you flew close to each other, but he didnt register any contact, this is due to inevitable internet lag, (you can only go as fast as the speed of light ;))
imagine what would happen if both players took damage from a collision?
imagine you're duelling with someone with a bad connection, and on his PC, he registers a contact. now on your screen, you may well be 100 yards apart, but my your new rules of 'everyone takes damage in a collision' you would collide too!
it wouldn't be fair if you died for no reason other than the other idiot ramming into you on his PC would it? it is the way it is a for a reason, and that reason is fairness ;)
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The most important thing to understand about collisions is that what you see, and what your enemy see's are two diff. things.
Because of Internet lag the fight you are watching on YOUR monitor, and the fight your enemy is watching on THEIR monitor are not the same fight.
YOU might see the planes collide. THEY might see a near miss.
So when you ram into someone and they fly off undamaged, it's because YOU saw a collision, THEY saw a near miss. The way it is setup is the only way it can be done.
(also note, when you have a bad guy on your 6, they are generally closer than they appear due to lag. That d600 con on YOUR front end is probably d400 on THEIR front end.)
My advice would be to quit doing Head On attacks. 99% of the complaints about collisions are from pilots that fly straight at their opponent guns blazing and end up ramming into them.
Work on ACM and how to out fly your opponent. It's very hard to get rammed by an enemy when you are behind them.
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Lute the simple way to avoid HO collisions is to blow him up befor you hit him :)
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Learn to avoid HOs and you will never collide.
I get max one collision message 50 hours of game play if not even less.
Its your screwup if there is a collision so you can avoid it.
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Learn to avoid HOs and you will never collide.
I get max one collision message 50 hours of game play if not even less.
Its your screwup if there is a collision so you can avoid it.
Tex
Not entirely true.
Let's say your fighting one guy and another comes in and rams into your side. On your front end you "see" the guy fly into you. On his, he does not. You get the "you have collided" message...has nothing to do with avoiding a HO.
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Thanks for those good explanations. That answers alot. I guess my main concern is that when this does happen, it says "(whoever) has shot you down". Does that mean he/she gets the kill logged? Do they get credit for a mutual head on just because your computer saw it first?
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2 options. During the scenario in which the collision occurs, you were fired on, OR, it's simply a proxy kill. IIRC, proxies are logged as kills, but not otherwise scored (ie no points or perks, just 1 additional kill). I don't believe that collisions count as any sort of applied damage, but simply like the other guy clips a tree or object- the nearest player will wind up with the credit, not necessarily the guy you collided with, or who collided with you.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Learn to avoid HOs and you will never collide.
I get max one collision message 50 hours of game play if not even less.
Its your screwup if there is a collision so you can avoid it.
Tex
Amaizing how someone can play this game for years, and yet not have a clue about it
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my experience is that frequency of collisions seem to come and go with time played in game. Just sweat it off, part of internet play. Yeah, some people get a little too wrapped up in the game. Always been that way, I spect it always will. At least until the asteroid hits.........:rolleyes:
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When you get the message..."So&So has collided with you"
does that mean his end saw the collision?
If so why dosent So&So take damage?
Please explain
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If so why dosent So&So take damage?
He will take damage.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
He will take damage.
HiTech
Yep, but sometimes you cant see it. It could be a pilot woond or missing gear or an elevator. You know, the normal things you would expect when two planes colide in mid air or when a plane colides with a panzer. :D
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i cant even remember the last time i had a collision. but i am sure it was some ho shooting la7 dweebasaorus that did it on purpose just because he was about to be humbled by my l33tness.
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IMO, damage model needs some work in the future. Kinda funny I'm bellow at the merge, turn up, colide and lose the tailwheel.
Any plans for more detailed damage model in the near future (a year or so)?
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
IMO, damage model needs some work in the future. Kinda funny I'm bellow at the merge, turn up, colide and lose the tailwheel.
Any plans for more detailed damage model in the near future (a year or so)?
Yeah, you should talk about colisions. :O Sunday driver
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Originally posted by BugsBunny
Yeah, you should talk about colisions. :O Sunday driver
:furious It was a cat! What's your excuse? :noid
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Forum Rule #17.
User will not post messages regarding the collision model that only prove to the community that you have not read or have failed to understand the 9,999,999 post regarding this subject.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
:furious It was a cat! What's your excuse? :noid
Didn't think the old guy in the big arse 70s cadilac was going to back out his driveway at 60mph only to get in front of me and do 10mph?
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Learn to avoid HOs and you will never collide.
I get max one collision message 50 hours of game play if not even less.
Its your screwup if there is a collision so you can avoid it.
Tex
You obviously know nothing about the collision model then.
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Question about this:
Today in LW I had someone tell me, "just dive thru that formation and get really close. You can blow one up that way when they hit you..."
Isn't that rather gamey? Flying close to a buff hoping that their front-end registers a collision while you fly off undamaged?
*edit* someone said later on that only works if you have a bad internet connection as you blast by your target. Still feels wrong; taking advantage of your poor network peformance in order to score a kill, but I don't see any better options to resolve it (latency issues). In my fighter, I can avoid someone by making sure on my end, the two planes don't occupy the same space at the same time. Harder to do for someone flying a larger aircraft...
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Warspawn, a good thing to do is ignore anything you see ingame that has anything to do with collisions. What people claim to know, and to be able to do, isn't always... um, shall we say, 100% accurate.
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What, you mean that all the stuff that comes accross 200 chat isn't 100% accurate and truthful?
:lol
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Originally posted by Donzo
Not entirely true.
Let's say your fighting one guy and another comes in and rams into your side. On your front end you "see" the guy fly into you. On his, he does not. You get the "you have collided" message...has nothing to do with avoiding a HO.
I very well know that you can collide on all axis, even from the rear.
I agree that you beeing responsible for the collision when someone runs into your six is annoying.
But what Im saying is that the most common collision is the ho collision. At least thats the one I see and hear about most in game. On forums it propably never happens because here no one ever HOs.
The only collisions that are hard to avoid re the ones that are "bilnd", from under neath and six.
The collision system also makes it your responsiblity to avoid the collision as you collide if your client registers it. That means if you see there is gonna be one then there is so avoid it.
Tex