Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1K3 on October 02, 2006, 11:41:03 AM
-
5- Flamebaiting, trolling, or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed.
-
"The gunman in the Amish school shooting tied together the feet of most female students and allowed boys to leave the building before shooting his victims execution style, police say."
-
See Rule #5
-
Hmm said a gunman not a gun killed them. Maybe they should stop allowing citizens to purchase rope too. Which brings to thought, what kind of car did he drive to the school?
If you make guns illegal, only criminals will have guns. You? You'll be found laying next to the phone, wrapped in the cord.... were you trying to dial 911??
Really no offense but.....
Thank God Texas has CCW!
-
I thought Amish are not allowed to have guns. Guns are "modern tools" right? :D
-
I have evolved a bit past the gun debate. this is at its core, a matter of one human being doing horrible harm to other innocent undefended human beings. Children, young women from the sound of it. There is no gun debate here. Not from me.
-
Originally posted by 1K3
I thought Amish are not allowed to have guns. Guns are "modern tools" right? :D
for someone reason that smiley looks out of place. just me.
Who said the gunman was Amish?
You're right Yeager, :aok
-
See Rule #5
You know, it's odd. There has been access to firearms in the US for over 200 years and yet it's only in the past 20 years or so that we have started seeing such incidents take place. Make that 50 years for the rare "crime spree" like from In Cold Blood.
Since a piece of steel with some wood doesn't have any psychoactive powers over someone's free will, perhaps there is something at work in society beyond guns? No gun, and the same guy is instead bringing those girls a batch of cupcakes today I suppose.
Frankly, I can honestly see more of a link to popular culture for these types of things, including television and video games. The gun situation has remained the same, HS social pressures have hardly changed I suppose -- angst, social outsiders and the A-list. "Children can be cruel..." is not a new saying. What has changed has been the glorification of mass violence and using mass violence as revenge.
Take the action hero movie where the hero's family is killed in the first 15 minutes and 1.5 hours and 100 bad guy bodies later he's snuggling with the hot new love interest -- burning exploded building in the background -- dead baddie hoincho at his feet with all of his problems behind him. Now take the glorification of violence for the already predisposed and substitute the family-killing gangland criminals for kids that made fun of me or rejected me; add the chance to take part in celebrity culture through infamy by going out with a bang and here's what we get.
Shootings like this are a symptom of a sick culture, at some levels and extremes. Guns are a tool. Make the tool go away, if you remotely can, and the sickness remains.
We accept the bad with the good where the 1st Amendment is concerend, just like we do in so many areas. I support this, warts and all. Look at how many people the "Turner Diaries" helped kill. We realize that the diesel fuel and fertilizer didn't make the federal building explode on its own, nor the Turner Diaries which clearly and directly influenced McVie. We blame the sick criminal for that act. How many people will the latest ******* movie put in the hospital? [edit: Movie title that starts with "Jack" and ends with slang for "Donkey"... little too PC here with the word filter perhaps :)] How many underage pregnancies will MTV lead to this year by showing 12-year-olds how cool it is to hook up with the local hotties.
To bring up that comparison I've used before, I'm sure more underage drinkers died from alcohol this weekend than died in this shooting. It's a continual, grinding body count. There is a lot less media attention with these though (unless it's one of the all to common mutliple DUI death scenarios). I know for a statistical fact, and through personal experience, that when my son reaches HS age he will be at far more risk from alcohol than firearms. Risk and all though, we accept that.
But, where firearms are concerend personal responsibility always seems to take a back seat. Let's look for a firearm bandaid instead of trying to solve the actual problems leading human beings to committ these acts.
[edit: one reason is that firearm prohabition allows politicians to seem to be doing something about the problem without having to undertake the monumental, uphill battle involved with actually solving the root sources of violence in our society today (drug addiction/prohabition; inner city poverty; free speech rights vs. responsibilities vs. entertainment revenue; etc.) The results are half-assed measures suitable for the ignorant and those who influence them, that ultimately do next to nothing to solve the actual problems.]
Charon
-
Originally posted by Charon
You know, it's odd. There has been access to firearms in the US for over 200 years and yet it's only in the past 20 years or so that we have started seeing such incidents take place. Make that 50 years for the rare "crime spree" like from In Cold Blood.
Since a piece of steel with some wood doesn't have any psychoactive powers over someone's free will, perhaps there is something at work in society beyond guns? No gun, and the same guy is instead bringing those girls a batch of cupcakes today I suppose.
Frankly, I can honestly see more of a link to popular culture for these types of things, including television and video games. The gun situation has remained the same, HS social pressures have hardly changed I suppose -- angst, social outsiders and the A-list. "Childern can be cruel..." is not a new saying. What has changed has been the glorification of mass violence and using mass violence as revenge.
Take the action hero movie where the hero's family is killed in the second scene, and 45 minutes and 100 bad guy bodies later he's snuggling with the hot new love interest, burning exploded building in the background, dead baddie hoincho at his feet, with all his problems behind him. Now take he glorification of violence for the already predisposed and substitute the family-killing gangland criminals for kids that made fun of me or rejected me; add the chance to take part in celebrity culture through infamy by going out with a bang and here's what we get.
Shootings like this are a symptom of a sick culture, at some levels and extremes. Guns are a tool. Make the tool go away, if you remotely can, and the sickness remains.
We accept the bad with the good where the 1st Amendment is concerend, just like we do in so many areas. I support this, warts and all. Look at how many people the "Turner Diaries" helped kill. We realize that the diesel fuel and fertilizer didn't make the federal building explode on its own, nor the Turner Diaries which clearly and directly influenced McVie. We blame the sick criminal for that act. How many people with the latest ******* put in the hospital? How many underage pregnancies will MTV lead to this year by showing 12-year-olds how cool it is to hook up with the local hotties.
To bring up that comparison I've used before, I'm sure more underage drinkers died from alcohol this weekend than died in this shooting. There was a lot less media attention (unless it's one of the all to common mutliple DUI death scenarios. I know for a statistical fact, and through personal experience, that when my son reaches HS age he will be at far more risk from alcohol than firearms. Risk and all though, we accept that.
But, where firearms are concerend personal responsibility always seems to take a back seat. Let's look for a firearm bandaid instead of trying to solve the actual problems leading human beings to committ these acts.
Charon
Beautiful. :aok
-
Cowards.
If you want to off yourself, just eat the barrel. There is no need to take others with you or make some sort of statement. :mad:
-
well put charon..
ripley... schools are gun free zones... that is why you see so many crazed people go there to shoot the poor teachers and students who are harmless to them. It is allways nice to know that you have the only weapon around right?
Places where guns are freely allowed like gun stores and shooting ranges and police stations and parts of military bases are not popular places for crazed shootings.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Places where guns are freely allowed like gun stores and shooting ranges and police stations and parts of military bases are not popular places for crazed shootings.
lazs
:rofl
:aok
-
Charon,
Very well said sir.
Ripley, try looking something up. Upon actual research you'll find that the Amish have a history of total non violence, it's a part of their particular beliefs. Given that factual situation anyone deciding to "pick on them" or target them for anything knows he has a society that is steadfast in the refusal to defend themselves. Kind of what some of Congress lesser cranially gifted folks are trying to make the rest of the country into.
Of course that is kind of counter to your juvinile attempt to be sarcastic and make fun of the loss of life from criminal action.
-
See Rule #2, #5
-
This is truely sad...I just saw on CNN that this piece of watermelon bound 10 girls, ranging from the ages of 6-16, and had them facing the blackboard as he shot them point blank into the back of their skull execution style...My heart goes out to all the family and friends, and I really hope this scum bag is burning in the fires of hell right now...
rip
-
guns have been around longer than the amish, probably by over 200 years i'd bet
-
See Rule #5
And such nutjobs are still a minute risk factor in a population of 300 million. Not so if you are criminally involved in the inner city drug trade, but by and large firearms are not a realistic concern for most Americans. But, we want 100 percent pure safety of course.
The rights of 75 million or so gun owners infringed because on the rare occasion some nut job chooses a gun and a public spectacle vs. a rope or hands like the sexual serial killing nutjobs prefer, or a couple of extra party shots like the irresponsible mainstream drinker citizen prefers, or a can of gasoline and a match like those who really like to mass kill prefer.
But hey, we have to live in a perfectly safe world, because such a thing can obviously exist, right... In that spirit, I can only commend the EU effort to make driving perfectly safe. Sucks if you like a zip along on the autobahn or drive a motorcycle, but WTF. I imagine many of your fellow citizens could care less about that, since driving only needs to perform a functional service moving a person from point a to point b. Have fun with that. (I'll open a new link on that one, since it's worth its own discussion).
Charon
-
Originally posted by Mickey1992
Cowards.
If you want to off yourself, just eat the barrel. There is no need to take others with you or make some sort of statement. :mad:
I was just saying that to my friend. Of all the people, this guy picks some of the most peaceful people. I also read he was a "trucker" and not Amish.
-
Wonder what the killer's motive was? Or if he even had one.
Anti-religious perhaps? Did their horse and buggy cause him to have to down-shift? Or did he just pick the most helpless group around knowing that the chances of one of them knocking his brains out was absolutely nil?
How courageous of him.
His head should be stuck on a pole and left for the crows to pick clean.
-
I'm confused???
Are we allowed or not allowed to post articles without adding some point of discussion? Or are some allowed to post in this manner and others not?
Pretty inconsistent monitoring?
Could someone make this clear, once and for all?
-
Lemme clear it up.
No canadians allowed vato!
There that simplify it enough for ya?
:p
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Charon,
Very well said sir.
Ripley, try looking something up. Upon actual research you'll find that the Amish have a history of total non violence, it's a part of their particular beliefs. Given that factual situation anyone deciding to "pick on them" or target them for anything knows he has a society that is steadfast in the refusal to defend themselves. Kind of what some of Congress lesser cranially gifted folks are trying to make the rest of the country into.
Of course that is kind of counter to your juvinile attempt to be sarcastic and make fun of the loss of life from criminal action.
Hilarious! :rofl Will your next lecture be on the financial and economic benefits of the current Island of Atlantis?
-
See Rules #2, #4, #6
-
See Rules #2, #4, #6
-
how can we tell?
-
If you do not like the moderation, then leave.
I do not care for people who think ther opinion is so important as to start a flame fest where one should not be started. Just because you have an opinion does not mean anyone else cares to hear it. Please check your arrogance at the door.
Yes, lets start a gun debate in a thread about the death of children. If you think it appropriate, let me know. I happen to think a person wanting to do that is pretty low.
One more shot like those and you are both gone. So, if you want to continue berating me on this public forum and expect me to just sit here, then think again.
-
I think that at some point we will have to admit that it was a mistake to make schools "gun free zones" and allow teachers with concealled carry permits to carry firearms.
That may stop the cowardly shooters but... the nutjobs will still exist and still seek attention for their pathetic lives in their attention grabbing deaths.
My prediction? at some point guns will be allowed in schools and the shootings will pretty much stop.. at that point... guys will either burn or bomb or simply drive a truck through the schoolyard at 90 mph killing dozens.
If one nutjob manages to kill dozens with a truck then many will copy... these pathetic weirdos have no imagination at all. They all copycat and the media plays right into their hands by allmost lovingly... going over their pathetic lives and thus.... giving them meaning they never had.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
I think that at some point we will have to admit that it was a mistake to make schools "gun free zones" and allow teachers with concealled carry permits to carry firearms.
That may stop the cowardly shooters but... the nutjobs will still exist and still seek attention for their pathetic lives in their attention grabbing deaths.
My prediction? at some point guns will be allowed in schools and the shootings will pretty much stop.. at that point... guys will either burn or bomb or simply drive a truck through the schoolyard at 90 mph killing dozens.
If one nutjob manages to kill dozens with a truck then many will copy... these pathetic weirdos have no imagination at all. They all copycat and the media plays right into their hands by allmost lovingly... going over their pathetic lives and thus.... giving them meaning they never had.
lazs
You are an optimist in the extreme, lazs.
Much more likely is that in an election year our representitives will be crawling all over themselves to prove who can make our schools safer and arming teachers will certainly not be among the proposed solutions (at least not by any who don't wish to be crucified in the media).
No, rest assured that the result of this recent random batch of shootings will be less freedoms for us all in some form. Pretty much Dems and GOP alike are all about solving problems that don't really exist with more government and less freedoms.
-
Sam, just a nit, but politicians are not about solving problems. They are more about finding ways to put bandaids on issues. Take a look at anything a politician does and you will find it is not about attacking the root cause of the issue, but rather a reactionary measure to cope with the result of the issue.
-
It is rather alarming that the number of these types of shootings has skyrocketed in recent years.
The gun control conversation really doesn't have any relevance here. Gun control or no, these psychopaths will find SOME way of obtaining a firearm and using it on the public.
The real question is, why do these idiots do this? I'm guessing that someone knew this guy and knew he was mentally "off."
-
I think we are experiencing the "too many rats packed into a box" scenario.
Humans are overpopulating and thus nature is kicking in the insanity trigger where selected humans start going insane and killing other humans for no sustainable reason.
Asteroid? Earth here, where are you :rolleyes:
-
It looks now like this guy was trying to copycat the pedophile that killed the girl a couple of weeks ago in the other school standoff. Apparently he had tools and supplies to facilitate that, and admitted it in one of his notes.
Charon
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Sam, just a nit, but politicians are not about solving problems. They are more about finding ways to put bandaids on issues. Take a look at anything a politician does and you will find it is not about attacking the root cause of the issue, but rather a reactionary measure to cope with the result of the issue.
That's pretty much my point, Scuzzy - I should have said it better. They *claim* to solve issues so that you'll vote for them. I'm looking for a candidate who's platform is doing as little as he can get away with and being an obstruction to others who are trying to "solve problems".
It is rather alarming that the number of these types of shootings has skyrocketed in recent years.
Um, define "skyrocketed in recent years." Kinda like shark attacks skyrocketed last year. Only they didn't. If you mean fanatical media coverage has gotten worse, making the problem seem worse, yes. But in reality school violence is is pretty steady over time. Statistically, school shootings resulting in death is such a minor issue it's barely worth discussing. Here's (http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/shooting/shootings.html) an objective report from after Columbine - the last time people went nuts over school safety.
If you're really interested in keeping children safe, let's talk about backyard swimming pools.
-
sam.. perhaps I am too much of an optomist but I have heard talk of allowing at least the principal to be armed and... the trend seems to be toward allowing armed guards in schools... these schools are not targets.
I also agree that the politicians are not about solutions but about what appears to be an attempt at one.
I do not agree that a politician would get crucified if he suggested arming qualified teachers. I think that parents everywhere are asking that some protection be provided for their children.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
I do not agree that a politician would get crucified if he suggested arming qualified teachers. I think that parents everywhere are asking that some protection be provided for their children.
lazs
I just don't have any confidence that a politician expressing this as an option would get any kind of a fair treatment in the national media.
Maybe someone smart will tone it down a bit and simply suggest that if every classroom still had a nice, hefty wooden paddle the teachers would have a fighting chance against a gunman stepping through their doorway.:D
-
Laz,
It doesn't matter if "they" let the principle be armed or not. I figure that just about all of them would refuse it anyhow.
I wondered how long it would be before beetle showed up again. Just like clockwork.
-
sam... I agree that the liberal media would do it's best to make the politician look deranged for suggesting that schools protect their students.
I just feel that parents and citizens might just brush em off.
I think that when it was suggested that sky marshals be reactivated that the general sentiment of the liberal media was to try to paint it as dangerous and insane. Polls showed that they were not in touch with the public.
Imagine if we had vouchers and the private schools all advertised that most of their teachers were trained concealed carry permit holders and were mostly armed at all times.
I would bet that they would increase enrollment not decrease it.
I am not sure that the present lot of public school teachers are worth saving tho. If the cease to exist when vouchers come in then that may be for the best.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Laz,
It doesn't matter if "they" let the principle be armed or not. I figure that just about all of them would refuse it anyhow.
I wondered how long it would be before beetle showed up again. Just like clockwork.
Yeah he should take the handle roach, seems he is just as nasty and hard to get rid of.
-
Wow he did come crawling out from under his rock.
-
Originally posted by Samiam Um, define "skyrocketed in recent years." Kinda like shark attacks skyrocketed last year. Only they didn't. If you mean fanatical media coverage has gotten worse, making the problem seem worse, yes. But in reality school violence is is pretty steady over time. Statistically, school shootings resulting in death is such a minor issue it's barely worth discussing. Here's (http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/shooting/shootings.html) an objective report from after Columbine - the last time people went nuts over school safety.
If you're really interested in keeping children safe, let's talk about backyard swimming pools. [/B]
I wasn't referring to school shootings in particular. I was referring to people "snapping" and going to some random public place and shooting it up. Maybe it's just me, but these kind of things seem to be happening more often than they used to. I don't remember these types of incidents happening in the '60s and '70s... During the '80s, it seemed like it happened quite a lot (once a year?)... I blame MTV...
-
nutballs tend to be copycats. they go in cycles. for a while it was skyjacking.
You guys remember skyjacking? seems you couldn't go a month without one for a while... all nutjobs and all copycats.
the media plays into this scenerio by giving the nutjob his fame.... it is sickening the way they dwell on this nutters life allmost.... lovingly... they spend allmost no time on the victims.
If the nutjob were to be analized as being effeminate and gay or whatever on national tv every time one happened... there would be less copycats.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Rameusb5
I wasn't referring to school shootings in particular. I was referring to people "snapping" and going to some random public place and shooting it up. Maybe it's just me, but these kind of things seem to be happening more often than they used to. I don't remember these types of incidents happening in the '60s and '70s... During the '80s, it seemed like it happened quite a lot (once a year?)... I blame MTV...
Statistically, this is more perception than reality. Again, I blame 24hr news media who have no incentive to excercise discretion. Heck, based on paying attention to the news you'd think amercians mysteriously dissappearing in Aruba was an epidemic if you weren't paying very close attention.
In the 60's and 70's, national TV news was limited to 1/2 hour per day and there was a war, and oil crisis, and a horrible economy to report on. If some nutjob walked shooting into a public placed and killed two people somewhere in Idaho, it might have gotten 30sec of play on the 6:00 news. Today the same nut will get non-stop 24/7 coverage for three weeks.
But it's hard to blame the media when this is obviously the news that people want.
-
I'm not sure about other schools, but mine has (or had, I haven't seen him this year) an armed police officer on campus. It's not in the ghetto, or slums, or anything like that. Behind the school are houses with very high market value as far as I know. Put one or two police officers in schools at all time, trained, certified police officers.
-
See Rule #16
-
Pongo,
You are the kewl.
PongoSee Rule #16
-
Its been a pleasure knowing ya toad!
-
I don't think he'll PNG you for that.
I could be wrong.
-
This is what the Amish are about:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/04/amish.shooting/index.html