Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on October 02, 2006, 08:54:47 PM
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Lets say you or I while driving,ran stop sign
And hit a vehicle crossing broadside with enough force to partially eject two people out of the driver side window killing them.
What would happen to you?
Would you be arrested? Charged with anything?
Now keep in mind you RAN through the stop sign and that part is without question
If its just you or me or any old Joe hell yes. Arrested on the spot
Apparently not if your an NJ State trooper.
Latest news I've heard is he wasnt on an emercancy call. and he did run the stop sign. and was NOT on an emergancy call
Now I have all the respect for law enforcement people in the world. I sure as hell wouldnt want to do their job.
But I do see all to often Cops, who think the rules of the road do not apply to them. Driving at high speeds and running lights only to see them pull into the station when their shift is over or to stop as a coffee shop.
Im sure the idea is. Well who is going to give him a ticket?
But by the same token. If they screw up and the outcome is death.
As it seems to be in this case. Sorry but this guy has to get booked,proccessed and charged just like the rest of us.
Ad insult to injury. The guy got to return to work the next day.
Two Teen Sisters killed in Crash with trooper (http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/local/capemay/story/6794368p-6662362c.html)
To make this story even sadder. The two girls were the only children of the parents.
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Bullet to the back of the cop's head...
Then charge the wife $0.23 for the cost of the hydrashock to the taxpayer.
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Accidents happen, sad but true. Anyone here never accidentally ran a stop sign? The degree of negligence should determine the punishment.
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Yes. He should be accidentally shot in the head.
To eject 2 people from a car is no accident.
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Originally posted by lukster
Accidents happen, sad but true. Anyone here never accidentally ran a stop sign? The degree of negligence should determine the punishment.
Sure I have. and if a Cop caught me I'd be read the third degree and be ticketed.
And if because I ran the stop sign two people were killed I'd be arrested booked, charged proccessed and convicted.
So far this guy hasnt even gotten a ticket
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Just to clear this up. If in NJ, you drive through a stop sign without stopping and hit another car and kill the people in it you can be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign. Unless of course there are other contributing factors which caused you to fail to stop at the stop sign. Such as DWI, or excessive speed. If the only offense committed was the failure to stop, then thats the only offense that the driver can be charged with. People very rarely get arrested and charged with a crime when the only original offense is a motor vehicle violation, police officer or not. We don't know the complete circumstances of the incident with the NJ trooper, but I'm sure the hydrashock to the back of the head might be a little much.
I'm not sure we would be discussing this as much if it were someone other than a police officer involved. I think each and everyone of us has made a mistake or broken the law when it comes to driving. Unless it turns out the the trooper was doing something so horrible as to warrant our contempt, lets leave the capital punishment for the people who actually commit crimes. Perhaps a prayer for the girls family is in order as well.
Dred, what crime to you think the trooper should be charged with?
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I had a funny incidient back in 1993. It was around 10pm, and I saw this car weaving in and out of traffic. The closer it got, you could tell he was tailgating like something fierce, and cutting people off. He rode my a** for 4 miles, because he was boxed in by myself and the car in the slow lane (not deliberately, traffic was just not forgiving). I flipped this car off for about 2 of the miles (at times, I could NOT see headlights). He cut off the car in the slow lane (he in fact, grazed and hit this car, I heard it). He pulled up to the side of my car I saw it was a Wayne County Sheriff. He flipped his lights on NOW, and motioned me to pull over (I had not broken a civil infraction).
As I pulled into a driveway of a business, the car that was HIT, pulled in as well. The Sheriff got agitated and told the other guy to "get the hell out of here and it didn't involve him". He had the gull to ask me "Do you know why I have pulled you over?" I said: "We'll let's see I watched a car cut NO LESS Than 10 cars off, you rode every cars a** in front of you with blatant disregard. IMO, you have broken more than 8 moving violation codes. Furthermore, you hit this guys car and I heard it. The way I see it, if this is either one of us (pointing to the pissed off guy) we're not only losing our license, we're looking at LEAST jail time. You didn't EVEN have your light bar OR siren on, while breaking all of the said violations in the pitch black of darkness."
He continued to be a d**k and I mentioned my neighbor (at the time a Captain at a local PD) and that I would be talking both him and a lawyer. This d**k had the balls to write me a ticket for flipping him off! The other guy and myself exchanged phone numbers because he was pissed off and wanted Wayne County to repair the damage (fender and bumper pad slightly dented and scratched).
I get home and go right next door and have about a 20 minute discussion with my neighbor. He could not believe this guy wrote this ticket. He said he knew a couple of WCS's and would get more dirt on this guy, because something was not right. He even asked me "Are you telling the truth, this is mindboggling." I gave him the other number and told him "Go ahead right now, call this guy. I'll wait here, and watch the reaction." He hung up the phone and had a look of fear on his face. "This guy is a badge?!", he exclaimed.
I called the other driver and informed him of my court date. He showed up on the said date, and my case is called in front of the magistrate. The magistrate even does a double take "Cited for flipping off an Officer of the Law". He asks the a**hole "what happened?" The Sheriff is telling lie after lie to protect his cushy job.
I finally had enough after 3 minutes of drivel and called the other guy up. I spent about 2 minutes setting up what ACTUALLY transpired. The magistrate then asks who the gentleman who this person is standing up with me, and I told him "this is the guy who's vehicle was hit". The magistrate called me up to the bench "You are off the hook, in fact, hand me your copy of the ticket." He called the Sheriff back to his quarters and cancelled an hours worth of cases (you should have heard some pissed off people!).
About a week went by and I talked to my neighbor and told him what had happened. He said "He was fired and lost his license for 4 years over this. He will also NEVER carry a badge again."
Now, with this tool. He should be charged with Vehicular Manslaughter. The only thing seperating a Cop from a Civilian is the "ability to arrest for a misdemeanor."
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Would I be arrested? No
Charged? No
If no other factors were present, I would be given a ticket for "failure to obey a traffic signal." Maybe....maybe..... "Driving without due care and attention."
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Originally posted by Toecutter
Just to clear this up. If in NJ, you drive through a stop sign without stopping and hit another car and kill the people in it you can be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign. Unless of course there are other contributing factors which caused you to fail to stop at the stop sign. Such as DWI, or excessive speed. If the only offense committed was the failure to stop, then thats the only offense that the driver can be charged with. People very rarely get arrested and charged with a crime when the only original offense is a motor vehicle violation, police officer or not. We don't know the complete circumstances of the incident with the NJ trooper, but I'm sure the hydrashock to the back of the head might be a little much.
I'm not sure we would be discussing this as much if it were someone other than a police officer involved. I think each and everyone of us has made a mistake or broken the law when it comes to driving. Unless it turns out the the trooper was doing something so horrible as to warrant our contempt, lets leave the capital punishment for the people who actually commit crimes. Perhaps a prayer for the girls family is in order as well.
Dred, what crime to you think the trooper should be charged with?
Another issue is damn well on the front burner with this: HE CAUSED TWO PASSENGERS TO BE EJECTED!!!!!!! He was "speeding, reckless driving, unable to stop in a safe assured distance, and failure to obey a traffic sign."
VEHICULAR MANSLAUGHTER to answer your question.
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I agree with Mash. Cop was in his own mind above the law....excessively speeding and with blatant disregaurd for the law(he knows those roads) killed 2 young women........................ ... fry his bellybutton in uniform and those who helped him keep his job!
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If he was'nt reponding to a call with lights on, and he ran a stopsign, he should be charged with 2 counts of manslaughter.
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Masherbrum, you are apparently taking your very bad experience with one law enforcement officer and projecting onto this situation. As stated we don't know the full facts yet. Correct two people were ejected. You would like to charge the officer with speeding, reckless driving, unable to stop in a safe assured distance, and failure to obey a traffic sign. And vehicular manslaughter. I'm guessing the you deduced the appropriate charges from the facts that two people had been ejected from the car, I'm guessing that because you typed it in all in caps before you listed the charges. I would like to address these one at a time if I may.
1. Speeding. The article didn't mention anything about excessive speed. Apparently you believe that because the girls were ejected that the officer must have been speeding. What if the speed limit on the road was 50 MPH? Fast enough to cause an ejection. (just for your info passengers can be ejected at any speed)
2. Reckless driving. In NJ to convict on this charge there must be wonton disregard of life or property.
3. Unable to stop in a safe assured distance. We have no such statute. Careless driving would be as close as we would get.
4. Failure to obey traffic sign. So far from what we know this is the charge that the officer will be charged with.
5. Vehicular manslaugter. Right now this charge doesn't fit.
The problem with your thinking is that its contagious. A police officer does something wrong, and right away you would like to string him up without having the facts of the case. All we know for sure is that the officer failed to stop at a stop sign. But before you have all the facts you and some others here are calling for his head. Now I'm sure that here in NJ there are going to be some people of influence with the same knee jerk reaction that you have. Maybe they had a poor excuse for a cop treat them badly as well. Guess what happens next. Justice goes out the window. This officer gets tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Maybe the person conducting the investigation bows to pressure and does not what is legally correct, but what some of the reactionaries think is just.
Now let me say for the record that if this guy was doing something that would elevate the the motor vehicle charge to a criminal charge (and excessive speed could do that, but it would have to be extremely excessive), then yes. Lets have a trial and get justice for the girls family. However, if his only violation is infact failure to stopat a stop sign, then thats what he may be charged with. And may our prayers be with the family of the girls who died. Unfortunately in this state, we have an over abundance of people who think like you do, so if I had to guess, my guess would be that charges will be forthcoming.
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i dont run stop signs & i'm offended:mad: :mad: :furious :mad:that you're suggesting i do
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Originally posted by Toecutter
Masherbrum, you are apparently taking your very bad experience with one law enforcement officer and projecting onto this situation. As stated we don't know the full facts yet. Correct two people were ejected. You would like to charge the officer with speeding, reckless driving, unable to stop in a safe assured distance, and failure to obey a traffic sign. And vehicular manslaughter. I'm guessing the you deduced the appropriate charges from the facts that two people had been ejected from the car, I'm guessing that because you typed it in all in caps before you listed the charges. I would like to address these one at a time if I may.
1. Speeding. The article didn't mention anything about excessive speed. Apparently you believe that because the girls were ejected that the officer must have been speeding. What if the speed limit on the road was 50 MPH? Fast enough to cause an ejection. (just for your info passengers can be ejected at any speed)
2. Reckless driving. In NJ to convict on this charge there must be wonton disregard of life or property.
3. Unable to stop in a safe assured distance. We have no such statute. Careless driving would be as close as we would get.
4. Failure to obey traffic sign. So far from what we know this is the charge that the officer will be charged with.
5. Vehicular manslaugter. Right now this charge doesn't fit.
The problem with your thinking is that its contagious. A police officer does something wrong, and right away you would like to string him up without having the facts of the case. All we know for sure is that the officer failed to stop at a stop sign. But before you have all the facts you and some others here are calling for his head. Now I'm sure that here in NJ there are going to be some people of influence with the same knee jerk reaction that you have. Maybe they had a poor excuse for a cop treat them badly as well. Guess what happens next. Justice goes out the window. This officer gets tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Maybe the person conducting the investigation bows to pressure and does not what is legally correct, but what some of the reactionaries think is just.
Now let me say for the record that if this guy was doing something that would elevate the the motor vehicle charge to a criminal charge (and excessive speed could do that, but it would have to be extremely excessive), then yes. Lets have a trial and get justice for the girls family. However, if his only violation is infact failure to stopat a stop sign, then thats what he may be charged with. And may our prayers be with the family of the girls who died. Unfortunately in this state, we have an over abundance of people who think like you do, so if I had to guess, my guess would be that charges will be forthcoming.
I am NOT using my past case in this. The two aren't similar. It just reminded me of that story is all, bizarre, etc.
If you think they were BOTH ejected out of the Driver's side WINDOW at 25mph, yer off of your rocker. He hit that minivan to bruise his torso, with a BR vest on. I've been to the Ford Crash Barrier Building while a 25 T-bone was simulated, and 1 year later a 55mph T-bone was simulated. 25 mph was a walk in the park. The 55? It would suck, even if belted in. I have also seen my share of accidents from a "ride along" standpoint with my former neighbor, and just being a motorist.
I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Again, HE should get what WE WOULD, 2 counts of Vehicular Manslaughter. This isn't a "roll through a stop sign", this is BLOWING the sign completely.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Again, HE should get what WE WOULD, 2 counts of Vehicular Manslaughter. This isn't a "roll through a stop sign", this is BLOWING the sign completely.
And if we failed to stop at a stop sign and there were no other factors involved such as DWI or excessive speed, then we would get a summons for failure to stop at a stop sign. I am in no way saying he should get special treatment. He should be treated as the rest of us. I can assure you that the have been many fatal accidents in this state where the only offense commited and charged was failure to stop at a stop sign.
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What would have happened if the girls ran the stop sign and killed a cop? There would be all out war to convict them and ruin their lives. That's exactly what should happen to him plus a little more because he's a cop and should know better.
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Originally posted by rpm
What would have happened if the girls ran the stop sign and killed a cop? There would be all out war to convict them and ruin their lives. That's exactly what should happen to him plus a little more because he's a cop and should know better.
Actually you are way off the mark here. There are many instances of police officers killed in the line of duty due to motor vehicle accidents, there is one in particular that I am thinking of and the person who struck the officers was charged with a motor vehicle violation. On the other hand a few years back a volunteer fireman in New Jersey killed an elderly couple on the way to the firehouse responding to a call. He struck them broadside as he was going through an intersection. I believe he was charged with a motor vehicle violation. I dont remember an uproar calling for criminal charges against him.
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Originally posted by Toecutter
Actually you are way off the mark here. There are many instances of police officers killed in the line of duty due to motor vehicle accidents, there is one in particular that I am thinking of and the person who struck the officers was charged with a motor vehicle violation. On the other hand a few years back a volunteer fireman in New Jersey killed an elderly couple on the way to the firehouse responding to a call. He struck them broadside as he was going through an intersection. I believe he was charged with a motor vehicle violation. I dont remember an uproar calling for criminal charges against him.
usually when a fire engine is responding to a call they have thier lights blaring.
if this was negligence on the officers part, it should be treated in the same light as if it were a civilian. if it was carelessness, as rpm said, he should know better.
i didnt see where it said what the status of the call was one way or the other so i dont think that it is a good thing for me to make a snap judgement being so far away from the fact, but it should most certainly be at least as circumspect a view as it would be in any situation and with anybody.
we have cops fly down our road like lightning all the time. i get tired of complaining. i imagine that it's bound to happen down here eventually.
that bothers me.
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Originally posted by Toecutter
Just to clear this up. If in NJ, you drive through a stop sign without stopping and hit another car and kill the people in it you can be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign. Unless of course there are other contributing factors which caused you to fail to stop at the stop sign. Such as DWI, or excessive speed. If the only offense committed was the failure to stop, then thats the only offense that the driver can be charged with. People very rarely get arrested and charged with a crime when the only original offense is a motor vehicle violation, police officer or not. We don't know the complete circumstances of the incident with the NJ trooper, but I'm sure the hydrashock to the back of the head might be a little much.
I'm not sure we would be discussing this as much if it were someone other than a police officer involved. I think each and everyone of us has made a mistake or broken the law when it comes to driving. Unless it turns out the the trooper was doing something so horrible as to warrant our contempt, lets leave the capital punishment for the people who actually commit crimes. Perhaps a prayer for the girls family is in order as well.
Dred, what crime to you think the trooper should be charged with?
Hmmm this is a tough one.....shot in the dark here but how about negligent homicide?
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I think that some info might be missing. First of all, I trust half of what the papers print. They always seem to screw up the facts. Secondly, I wasn't there. Who are you going to believe? And third, not to put any blame on the victims, but in order to be ejected in a side impact, were they wearing seatbelts? It's an unfortunate accident. Everyone is going to suffer and nobody will feel better in the end.
Just look at the two owners of that night club in R.I. They are responsible for 102 deaths and one gets 4 years with 2 to serve. The other gets probation. Innocent until proven guilty.
Just my .02
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Originally posted by Toecutter
Just to clear this up. If in NJ, you drive through a stop sign without stopping and hit another car and kill the people in it you can be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign. Unless of course there are other contributing factors which caused you to fail to stop at the stop sign. Such as DWI, or excessive speed. If the only offense committed was the failure to stop, then thats the only offense that the driver can be charged with. People very rarely get arrested and charged with a crime when the only original offense is a motor vehicle violation, police officer or not. We don't know the complete circumstances of the incident with the NJ trooper, but I'm sure the hydrashock to the back of the head might be a little much.
I'm not sure we would be discussing this as much if it were someone other than a police officer involved. I think each and everyone of us has made a mistake or broken the law when it comes to driving. Unless it turns out the the trooper was doing something so horrible as to warrant our contempt, lets leave the capital punishment for the people who actually commit crimes. Perhaps a prayer for the girls family is in order as well.
Dred, what crime to you think the trooper should be charged with?
Running a stop sign, (failure to Yeild)
Reckless Driving
And at the very least
Death by Auto
thats what I and any other civilian would be charged with
As a police officer, He above all should know better.
The fact that he killed two people warrants my contempt
Just as it would if anyone else did it
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Lots of interesting posts here, not many that have any merit but they are "interesting".
Arizona would handle this in this manner, I assume that it will be similar in the state this collision happened in.
Since there are fatalities involved there will be NO citations issued at the scene. The investigation will be completed to a far higher degree than that for a minor collsion to include scale diagrams, speed computations and impact velocity.
Once the investigation is over, it is likely the Officer would be arrested on charges of vehicular manslaughter or depending on factors like possible speeding or other gross negligence, second degree murder. These are NOT citable offenses as they are felonies and tickets are issued for civil infractions and misdemeanors only.
Just on the basis of what the article said and not the shrill screaching of many posters here, my guess would be second degree murder rather than manslaughter, if only because the offender was a Police Officer who would have a higher expectation of behavior behind the wheel.
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My 1st question: who here is traffic accident reconstruction trained?
The only way to determine if charges should be filed is after a thorough review of the collision report, there are too many contributing factors we don't know... and the media wont report. Was the vehicle in good working order?, posted speed?, P/F speed?, was there any unusual condition on the roadway?, time of day, weather, other vehicles / pedestrian actions, was the stop sign limit line clearly marked, was the stop sign clearly visible, what traffic control applied to the other driver, was the roadway asphalt, concrete, did it crown, if so, where and how much, corrective lenses?...on and on.
Just because he wasn't responding to a call, doesn't mean he didn't observe something, lots of activity is self generated (or pro active)
When it comes to "Emergency vehicles" & collisions, sometimes the courts allow departments to handle it "administratively", they recognzce that emergency vehicle collisions are part of doing business. While he may not get charged by a court, if he violated dept policy he could buy mass days, lose rank (pay), get fired, or otherwise be punished. On top of that he faces civil liability.
People used to always complain we took too long to get there, and of course that we're always driving too fast..
In Cal the police are technically not allowed to speed unless rolling "code 3", very few calls are assigned code 3, maybe 2%... yet *some* officers will haul-ass anyway to get there, risking all kinds of trouble. Many dept policies restrict code 3 speed to 10 mph over the prima facia speed, and thats it.
Other officers dont give a rats sphincter, if you call in your GFs being raped and its not a code 3 call, these guys will drive 25MPH if its posted, coming to complete stops, obeying every traffic law.. taking their sweet time to get there following "the rules" The only reason they'll speed if to assist a fellow officer, citizens are not worth the risk.
So pick your poison, you want the cops to get there fast, or obey every mundane traffic rule when your safety is in question.
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Originally posted by Toecutter
Now let me say for the record that if this guy was doing something that would elevate the the motor vehicle charge to a criminal charge (and excessive speed could do that, but it would have to be extremely excessive), then yes. Lets have a trial and get justice for the girls family. However, if his only violation is infact failure to stopat a stop sign, then thats what he may be charged with. And may our prayers be with the family of the girls who died. Unfortunately in this state, we have an over abundance of people who think like you do, so if I had to guess, my guess would be that charges will be forthcoming.
OK my opinion. Forget the reckless driving.
He ran a stop sign. Inand of itself a relitively minor offence.
But it did cause the death of two people.
The one by itself is one thing. But once it causes the death or injury of someone.
The end result is what. IMO elevates it to a criminal offence.
Reguardless of who was driving
At the very least he should be charged with Death by Auto
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Originally posted by Obie303
I think that some info might be missing. First of all, I trust half of what the papers print. They always seem to screw up the facts. Secondly, I wasn't there. Who are you going to believe? And third, not to put any blame on the victims, but in order to be ejected in a side impact, were they wearing seatbelts? It's an unfortunate accident. Everyone is going to suffer and nobody will feel better in the end.
Just look at the two owners of that night club in R.I. They are responsible for 102 deaths and one gets 4 years with 2 to serve. The other gets probation. Innocent until proven guilty.
Just my .02
How about one dedicated tot eh families of law enforcement?
The Family Badge (http://www.familybadge.org/index.cfm/act/newsletter.cfm/category/national%20police%20news/menuitemid/68/MenuGroup/Home/NewsLetterID/15275/startrow/6.htm)
Doesnt matter if they were wearing their seatbelts or not.
Had they not been hit they wouldnt have been ejected.
just saying
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
My 1st question: who here is traffic accident reconstruction trained?
The only way to determine if charges should be filed is after a thorough review of the collision report, there are too many contributing factors we don't know... and the media wont report. Was the vehicle in good working order?, posted speed?, P/F speed?, was there any unusual condition on the roadway?, time of day, weather, other vehicles / pedestrian actions, was the stop sign limit line clearly marked, was the stop sign clearly visible, what traffic control applied to the other driver, was the roadway asphalt, concrete, did it crown, if so, where and how much, corrective lenses?...on and on.
Just because he wasn't responding to a call, doesn't mean he didn't observe something, lots of activity is self generated (or pro active)
When it comes to "Emergency vehicles" & collisions, sometimes the courts allow departments to handle it "administratively", they recognzce that emergency vehicle collisions are part of doing business. While he may not get charged by a court, if he violated dept policy he could buy mass days, lose rank (pay), get fired, or otherwise be punished. On top of that he faces civil liability.
People used to always complain we took too long to get there, and of course that we're always driving too fast..
In Cal the police are technically not allowed to speed unless rolling "code 3", very few calls are assigned code 3, maybe 2%... yet *some* officers will haul-ass anyway to get there, risking all kinds of trouble. Many dept policies restrict code 3 speed to 10 mph over the prima facia speed, and thats it.
Other officers dont give a rats sphincter, if you call in your GFs being raped and its not a code 3 call, these guys will drive 25MPH if its posted, coming to complete stops, obeying every traffic law.. taking their sweet time to get there following "the rules" The only reason they'll speed if to assist a fellow officer, citizens are not worth the risk.
So pick your poison, you want the cops to get there fast, or obey every mundane traffic rule when your safety is in question.
He ran a stopsign. even the police admit that.
He was on patrol and not responding to an emergany call.
Even the police admit that.
In NJ unless an officer is responding to a call they subject to and are expected by law to follow the exact same rules of the road as anyone else.
He Ran a stop sign.
Because he ran a stop sign two people died.
I dont see what other contributing factors are needed
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One of my friends told me this.
The only vehicle that can actually blow through stop signs and red lights is the postal truck because it's federal.
All emergency vehicles, police, ambulances, fire trucks, ect. must yield and get approval from other drivers before they can proceed.
I highly respect the police, but if this sweetheart was in a rush just because he had to take a dump or something and killed to innocent people, he should face some severe punishment.
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x0847Marine,
There is insufficient information in the article to do anything but discuss running a stop sign (or failure to yield from a stop sign) and the fact that a collision happened with 2 fatalities.
The one thing most seem to be stuck on is that there was no citation at the scene. As I already stated citations are issued for misdemeanors and civil infractions. Since there were fatalities a ticket is rather unlikely. Most likely is some form of vehicular manslaughter or second degree murder charges will be filed. I say charges as each fatality would bring it's own charge even though it's the same incident and act involved. If that Officer was issued a ticket he would likely go down and plead no contest immediately as that would prevent him from being tried for a higher charge from the same collision due to double jeopardy protections. Outside of civil rights violations that is. Those don't have double jeopardy protections.
Anything else really is just pure speculation since no one of us was there, has not been to the scene and is not privy to any of the photo's, measurements and investigation interviews.
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i have never ran a stop sign or a red light. i have however, when appropriate exceded the speed limit.
driving is a skill, not a privilege.
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I ran one once becasue it was somewhat hidden and I didn't see it. My wife saw it though which is the only reason I know I ran it.
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A humorous aside to an otherwise grim thread:
I know someone who was in the middle of nowhere. There was an intersection that had a convenience store on the other side, the road was clear with no traffic, and he decided "to heck with it" and ran the red light. Immediately as he ran the light, a police car was in the process of coming out from behind the other side of the store and he knew he was busted. As fast as he could, he pulled off the road and coasted to a stop. He popped the hood, jumped out of the car, and started looking at the engine. Casually, he popped the throttle return spring off and continued inspecting the engine while the police car pulled up.
"Whew, that was scary!" he told the officer as he walked up.
"What's that?"
"I tried to stop back there, but the car just powered on through the intersection. Man, I sure am glad there wasn't any traffic!"
As the skeptical officer watched, this guy suddenly "noticed" the throttle return spring and re-attached it in front of the office.
"Holy cow, that must have just popped right off. Yikes!"
The officer gave him the eyebrow, but ended up letting him go with an admonishment to watch those signals. My friend was pretty convinced that the officer knew exactly what happened and had decided to reward his creativity. As far as I know, he's straightened up and flown right since. Sometimes a glimpse of purgatory is more effective then being thrown into the brimstone.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
In NJ unless an officer is responding to a call they subject to and are expected by law to follow the exact same rules of the road as anyone else.
He Ran a stop sign.
Because he ran a stop sign two people died.
I dont see what other contributing factors are needed
OK my last post on this, maybe this one will have some "merit." First even if a police officer is responding to a call they are subject to the rules of the road. Which means even if going to a priority call, ex. lights and sirens on, they have to stop at controlled intersections to make sure the way is clear before proceding. Right now all we know is that he failed to stop at a stop sign. If there are no other circumstances other than that he may be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign.
Mavericks post is pretty much right on the mark with the way the investigation would precede, and why no summonses were issued at the scene. However, if the only offense committed is failure to stop at a stop sign, then he will be charged with that offense. If it turns out the there are other contributing factors such as excessive speed or DWI or perhaps something else, then the charge will be elevated to a criminal charge.
Everyone who is posting here and calling for blood seems to have the opinion that this officer willfully failed to stop at the stop sign. There are not enough facts about the case yet to determine that. There could many reasons why he failed to stop. If it was willful or due to other egregious factors then, yes charge him.
My whole problem with this thread began with people calling for blood before knowing the facts of the case. Calls for vehicular manslaugter, hydrashocks the back of the head. Hey, Lukster failed to stop at a stop sign once, should we have him charged with attempted vehicular homicide?
There seems to be a whole segment of society that is ready to condemn a person just because he or she is a police officer. That seems to be what is happening here. As I said before, I don't think we would be having this discussion if this were not a police officer.
Either way, justice may not be done in this case anyway because of the amount of people in this state who are like minded to some of the posters here, and will react before being presented with all the facts.
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Two people are DEAD, Two Innocent civilians went to the Hospital. Vehicular Homicide aside, The State of New Jersey is gonna lose a ton of money over this.
If you THINK "failure to obey a traffic sign" is the ONLY charge this guy's gonna get, you're couldn't be more wrong.
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Masherburn,
Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?
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Then it's out of his control. He didn't have the ability to stop his car.
But if that's not the case, I'd charge him with Murder, first degree, 2 counts, with intent for execution. But that's just me.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Masherburn,
Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?
That has about the same probability of him then and there deciding to attempt to enter paradise with 2 carloads of civilians.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Masherburn,
Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?
Why weren't his LIGHTS or SIRENS on? By LAW, this must accompany a speeding officer to SIGNAL to the traffic. To NOT do so, is Negligence. There is no such thing as "I forgot, I didn't have time, etc."
This has more bearing on the possible prevention of this then ANYTHING else.
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:lol
Wow Laser, you really are reaching. "Saying" the word intent does not make the situation true no matter how much you wish it to be so. That's one of the things about a criminal investigation like Murder in the first degree. Having intent, or willfull evil mind to do the dastardly deed. That is one of the things you must prove in first degree murder. There is a much more "lenient" level of proof required for vehicular manslaughter or even 2nd degree murder in some states. Highly more probable choices for charges in this case.
Masherburn, lights and siren are emergency devices to be used in performance of his duties. Now lets go back a minute and re-read the bit I posted that you are aluding to here. Here' I'll quote it for you.
"Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?"
Please note the circumstance I said: "the brakes had just catastrophically failed". This obviously takes it out of the realm of intent wouldn't you say? Had the siren and lights been activated would the sound and lights magically stop his car? Would they have magically stopped the other car? Would the other driver have had any warning at all? Is the intersection out in the open, over the crest of a hillside for the other car? There is no information to indicate that any "opticon" light signal equipment was either on the vehicle, at the intersection or functional. Besides, it does NOT respond instantly. There was also no indication in the article that the Officer was speeding in excess of the posted limit.
I bring all this up for one reason only. I am NOT excusing his actions. I am also not going to condem him until the facts are known. Not supposition based on an article which is grossly incomplete with the facts of the situation nor what ifs or what you "think" happened when you were not there and haven't even seen the scene much less done ANY investigation.
In short there is virtually NO information here as to what exactly happened to cause the collision. Merely posting allegations just to justify your unhappiness does not make them accurate. Wait until the investigation is done. Then if you don't like it you can respond with your own special version of reality. :rolleyes:
This wasn't TV with a prepared script in controlled circumstances bound to a writers own perspective and completed in one hour of TV time. This was real life and to do things right in an investigation takes some time.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I dont see what other contributing factors are needed
Well experience tells me there's much much more to a collision than a simple "he ran a stop sign".
Imagine you rear end someone at a relatively slow speed, tossing their unrestrained infant off the seat killing him... charge you with murder or manslaughter because it was your fault? pay no mind to the fact the kid was riding illegally?...and the driver shares responsibility?
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My son missed a stop sign and it cost him and his sister their lives. I don't believe for a second he meant to miss it. It was dusk, the intersection has had numerous accidents in the past. They died and my family has to somehow live with it.
That being said, i take great offense at the 'bullet in the back of the head' comments.
I sometimes wonder how the woman who was driving the Jeep Cherokee that T-boned my son's car, lives with that, even knowing it was my son who missed the stop sign.
I know what my life has been like since my kids died. I can imagine there is no greater punishment for that cop then having to live with the knowledge of what his missed stop sign caused. That will be a far greater punishment then anything the law can hand out.
BTW I have the accident reports and they are very detailed and very difficult to read considering it details the last seconds of my son and daughter's lives. The state patrol in Minnesota is responsible for doing all of them and they were/are very thorough.
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Cops have always been some of the most dangerous and arrogant drivers on the road. Not all of course, but too many. For some reasons they think the law really wasnt written to be applied to them, only others.
I remember years ago, when I worked night shift, a state trooper used to pass me up every night as I drove up the highway to work. I would be doing 70, he would fly by me doing at least 85. Night after night. One night, a coworker decided to jump on his tail and follow him at that speed. The trooper then backed of, got behind my friend, pulled him over and asked for his license to issue a ticket. My friend then asked for his badge number, said he would be talking with the head of the state patrol over his driving. The cop got pissed, but handed back his license, told him to slow down and walked away.
In MN a few years ago, a Minneapolis cop was responding to a call at night, driving through a neighborhood at high speed with NO lights and NO siren. He ran through a stop sign and broadsided a pickup with two young men in it. He drove the pickup well up into a nearby yard on the corner, where the two young men died.
The cop wasnt charge with any crime. I thought he should have gotten life in prison.
In the case sighted in this thread, the cop should get life in prison.
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Originally posted by Dago
Cops have always been some of the most dangerous and arrogant drivers on the road.
Politicians?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Politicians?
I didnt say they were the only dangerous drivers.
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I keep hearing excessive speed being used as a reason for not stoping at a stop sign...anyone else find something funky with that statement?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Masherburn,
Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?
Failure to use hand brake ?
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Crown Victorias don't have hand brakes.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Masherburn,
Just for the sake of arguement, since there is no real information available to anyone yet, what would you charge him with if it turned out the brakes had just catastrophically failed on his car?
I notice you keep misspelling my handle, but back to this.
IMO, he still had ways to SLOW the car down, IF "brake failure" occurred.
1.) Take the foot off of the gas.
2.) Throw it in Neutral
3.) If there is still enough distance, downshift from OD, to D, and maybe 1st.
To me, this is natural, I'm sorry. Boxboy, Shamus will be familiar with this area.
I had a 1996 F-150 on 31" BFG Mud Terrains. I was driving down Telegraph Rd (M-24) with my wife (fiance at the time) to go to the Popmart U2 concert at the Palace of Auburn Hills.
The speed limit is 50 North of I-696. I kept seeing this ******* in a minivan deliberately, getting in the far right lane to "hopefully beat the car in front of me off the line". For 4 lights we played the game, he "tried" forcing his way into my truck, I never relented, my wife was asleep on the way there (nothing new). I had a 5.0l and a Manual. Now it starts to drizzle, this is Halloween.
I'm confident in my driving skills, even then. This hugahunk decides he's going to cut off the Escort in the next lane to the left. He got in front of us both and DELIBERATELY slammed on his brakes just South of Square Lake Rd. He was a good 1/4 mile from the car in FRONT of him. The van in front of me panicked and slammed on the brakes. I had enough foresight to already look to the driver's side mirror and see the Escort lay off and allow me enough room to get over. Without blinking, I downshifted from 5th to 2nd (I had to froce this into 2nd) and got off of the gas and brake. I had all four lanes clear to the left of me, and went all the way over as I went through the motions of a rubber burning fishtail. The driver of the Escort got out at the light and wanted to literally beat the watermelon out of this guy in his minivan. I thanked the Escort driver for what he did and he said "He had thought I was going into oncoming, or at least spinning out."
Had I slammed into the van in front of me, someone would have died. It comes back to responsibility to know the limitations of your vehicle and what it can do. Most of these Metrosexuals drinving Land Rover Discoveries, Range Rovers, Escalades, Denali's, etc have NO concept of what these vehicles CAN DO to a car in an accident. They drive them LIKE cars, speed along, and think they will have enough room, and BOOM! I have a Jeep CJ7 on 33" tires, I have had this since June. I have been CUT OFF deliberately more times than I care to count, and still flip everyone one of them off, because they lack the common sense to realize they will get f**ked up in an accident situation.
So again, he could have done a number things on top of "blowing" the sign if "brake failure" occurred. God gave us a brain to use. I tend to use mine.
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I was speaking hypothetically, like he had just discovered that his brakes were gone.
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<>
so you like to "play games" on the road. thats a good way to make the TV news. I don't play games on the road. if someone wants to play i back off and let them find somebody else to play with. My sheet metal is more important than my ego.
all todays cars have duel braking systems, the purpose is to prevent "catastrophic" brake failure, it means the car has two brake systems, the odds of both systems failing at the same time would be very high, you also have the "parking" brake which takes some skill to stop a car with but it can be done.
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driving is a skill, not a privilege
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Didn't know about that two systems thing.
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Originally posted by john9001
so you like to "play games" on the road. thats a good way to make the TV news. I don't play games on the road. if someone wants to play i back off and let them find somebody else to play with. My sheet metal is more important than my ego.
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driving is a skill, not a privilege
I do NOT allow any chitty drivers in front of me. I'm sorry, but I do NOT play games on the road. Bottom line, my ego of driving is the lack of tickets I have had, and the driving skills I have.
BTW, in the above incident, I must point out, for two lights I "let off" and gave this dolt opportunities to get in front of me (I left it out due to NOT writing a novel). He wanted to "be first". After two lights, I got tired of it. No games. Nice hijack attempt though.
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(http://photos8.flickr.com/7636043_7b15a3fdf8.jpg)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
My son missed a stop sign and it cost him and his sister their lives. I don't believe for a second he meant to miss it. It was dusk, the intersection has had numerous accidents in the past. They died and my family has to somehow live with it.
That being said, i take great offense at the 'bullet in the back of the head' comments.
I sometimes wonder how the woman who was driving the Jeep Cherokee that T-boned my son's car, lives with that, even knowing it was my son who missed the stop sign.
I know what my life has been like since my kids died. I can imagine there is no greater punishment for that cop then having to live with the knowledge of what his missed stop sign caused. That will be a far greater punishment then anything the law can hand out.
BTW I have the accident reports and they are very detailed and very difficult to read considering it details the last seconds of my son and daughter's lives. The state patrol in Minnesota is responsible for doing all of them and they were/are very thorough.
Dusk is a perfect example of a contributing factor, the setting sun hits a dirty windshield at just the right spot, blinds the driver, driver gets in collision.
Time of day Roadway conditions: most roadways are of asphalt or concrete construction, crowing in the center, sloping to cement curb lines. Both types absorb leaked fluids differently... even a small amount of am dew can create a slick road, but it wont be that way later in the afternoon.
Everyone here who complains that cops drive too fast would be jumping for joy at the sight of a police car hauling-ass, against policy / law, to save them.
One guy on my shift was infamous for getting everywhere last, even to his own calls. He made a joke of it, driving like an old lady to burglary in progress, prowler there now, assault in progress, robbery just occurred.. no matter to him, complete stops, waiting at red lights, obeying every traffic rule. His response times were so bad, it started to kill our response time stats.. of course people called in to complain it was taking too long.
So like I said earlier, pick your poison; aggressive cops who will get to you, or "screw you" cops who honestly dont care if you die, your just another stiff.. just like the one last week, just like the one next week.. its not like he'll get fired for following "the rules" if it took him 5 extra minutes.
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One guy on my shift was infamous for getting everywhere last, even to his own calls. He made a joke of it, driving like an old lady to burglary in progress, prowler there now, assault in progress, robbery just occurred.. no matter to him, complete stops, waiting at red lights, obeying every traffic rule. His response times were so bad, it started to kill our response time stats.. of course people called in to complain it was taking too long.
So does that mean he is not alowed to put his lights on to respond to any off these issues? Sounds like a dept problem to me, if he is responding to something that just happened I would think he would be alowed to speed up. But you never know..
But that does not give him the rights to drive crazy just for fun, with out his lighs on when he is not responding it any one.
Maybe i am wrong, But i would want cops to actualy have to follow the laws when everything is normal.
So like I said earlier, pick your poison; aggressive cops who will get to you, or "screw you" cops who honestly dont care if you die, your just another stiff.. just like the one last week, just like the one next week.. its not like he'll get fired for following "the rules" if it took him 5 extra minutes.
So what are the rules?? Are cops alowed to speed?, I see them speeding all the time here with and with out there lights off,
I guess we should just accept ******* cops and agressive cops, and bend over and kiss there ass? Becasue the police dept cant seems to find good cops?
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As most of ya'll know I'm a state trooper here in Texas and maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
Cops aren't allowed to speed or blast thru intersections, even if on a call.
We are required to use due care at all times. Alot of times on a call I will run over 100mph without my lights or siren due to the fact people are unpredictable. I know everyone here is an expert and well seasoned driver and know to yeild to the right for an emergency vehicle, but there are the few out there that will yeild to the left, side swipe the car next to them, or stop in the traffic lane all together. Its easier to slip by without them even knowing that your there.
Accident investigation is a very detailed and time consuming process, much like doing a jig saw puzzle. There are a lot of factors not mentioned in the article that could have bearing on the situation. As mentioned the fact that charges haven't been filed lean to that more serious chages other than a traffic violation are on the way.
As for lasersailor184, do you really want to live in a place where you "get shot in the back of the head" for a traffic violation well before the facts are in? With a comment like that I sure hope your are just trolling and are not serious.
Cops are people too. We make mistakes and yes some are real jerks too. There are far many more good ones than bad. If this guy in NJ messed up, then he should be punished to the full extent of the law, but like guppy said he probably has enjoyed his last night of restful sleep because this is going to be with him forever.
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Originally posted by -Concho-
As most of ya'll know I'm a state trooper here in Texas and maybe I can answer a couple of your questions.
Cops aren't allowed to speed or blast thru intersections, even if on a call.
We are required to use due care at all times. Alot of times on a call I will run over 100mph without my lights or siren due to the fact people are unpredictable. I know everyone here is an expert and well seasoned driver and know to yeild to the right for an emergency vehicle, but there are the few out there that will yeild to the left, side swipe the car next to them, or stop in the traffic lane all together. Its easier to slip by without them even knowing that your there.
Accident investigation is a very detailed and time consuming process, much like doing a jig saw puzzle. There are a lot of factors not mentioned in the article that could have bearing on the situation. As mentioned the fact that charges haven't been filed lean to that more serious chages other than a traffic violation are on the way.
As for lasersailor184, do you really want to live in a place where you "get shot in the back of the head" for a traffic violation well before the facts are in? With a comment like that I sure hope your are just trolling and are not serious.
Cops are people too. We make mistakes and yes some are real jerks too. There are far many more good ones than bad. If this guy in NJ messed up, then he should be punished to the full extent of the law, but like guppy said he probably has enjoyed his last night of restful sleep because this is going to be with him forever.
Good post Concho, I never agreed with lasersailor's post.
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Concho++
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Masherbrum,
Sorry about mispelling your handle, I really didn't notice.
Going back to the discussion we were having. I'll quote the relevent portion as all the other stuff you put in it was off topic.
"IMO, he still had ways to SLOW the car down, IF "brake failure" occurred.
1.) Take the foot off of the gas.
2.) Throw it in Neutral
3.) If there is still enough distance, downshift from OD, to D, and maybe 1st."
Nice set of options but there are a couple things here. I don't know of any standard patrol cars that are not automatics so option 1 and 2 are not likely to result in a significant or rapid loss of speed. Option 3 might allow a reduction but only if the transmission will allow downshifting above the lower gear's normal operating speed. Some auto transmissions also do not remain in lockup allowing the vehicle to coast as well. This will again not result in any significant reduction or speed. Since we know absolutely nothing about the terrain we can't even really speculate he could have shed speed by rubbing the guard rail or terrain to the side of the road. We also don't know if either driver could have seen the other prior to actual impact, so lights and even siren may not have made any difference to the other dirvers approach to the intersection.
I brought it all up just to illustrate one simple point here. I really didn't mean to pick on you, just you were a good "foil" for the sake of discussion as you didn't go off the handle.
The point I wanted to make, again, was that there is far too little information in the article to really understand how this collision happened and what are the contributing factors. All we know from the article alone (assuming it was correct in what little info it had to begin with) is that there was a stop sign, the Officer appears to have not stopped and that 2 people are dead. Yet inspite of the vast lack of information many folks are already sentencing the Officer to death, life in prison or other terms of imprisonment as if the collision was a willful act and he deliberately killed those 2 people. It kind of reminds me of the scene with the witch in Pythons "Search for the Holy Grail".
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We will all be angry at this guy if he was abusing his authority by hurrying home to dinner feeling above the law without need to observe the stop sign. I get the impression that this is what some believe. We don't have all the facts and I'm confident there will be a full investigation. Hold judgement until then.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Masherbrum,
Sorry about mispelling your handle, I really didn't notice.
Going back to the discussion we were having. I'll quote the relevent portion as all the other stuff you put in it was off topic.
"IMO, he still had ways to SLOW the car down, IF "brake failure" occurred.
1.) Take the foot off of the gas.
2.) Throw it in Neutral
3.) If there is still enough distance, downshift from OD, to D, and maybe 1st."
Nice set of options but there are a couple things here. I don't know of any standard patrol cars that are not automatics so option 1 and 2 are not likely to result in a significant or rapid loss of speed. Option 3 might allow a reduction but only if the transmission will allow downshifting above the lower gear's normal operating speed. Some auto transmissions also do not remain in lockup allowing the vehicle to coast as well. This will again not result in any significant reduction or speed. Since we know absolutely nothing about the terrain we can't even really speculate he could have shed speed by rubbing the guard rail or terrain to the side of the road. We also don't know if either driver could have seen the other prior to actual impact, so lights and even siren may not have made any difference to the other dirvers approach to the intersection.
I brought it all up just to illustrate one simple point here. I really didn't mean to pick on you, just you were a good "foil" for the sake of discussion as you didn't go off the handle.
The point I wanted to make, again, was that there is far too little information in the article to really understand how this collision happened and what are the contributing factors. All we know from the article alone (assuming it was correct in what little info it had to begin with) is that there was a stop sign, the Officer appears to have not stopped and that 2 people are dead. Yet inspite of the vast lack of information many folks are already sentencing the Officer to death, life in prison or other terms of imprisonment as if the collision was a willful act and he deliberately killed those 2 people. It kind of reminds me of the scene with the witch in Pythons "Search for the Holy Grail".
All three of those suggestions would slow down the car. Hell, throwing it into Park or Reverse would destroy the tranny and slow it down. There is always an option, I'm always thinking ahead when in a vehicle. I rarely "wait til the last minute to change lanes, etc" My wife hates it.
Vehicular Manslaughter rarely carries a Life Sentence. If he made a mistake, he's already paying for it is all.
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Was watching the news about this case, the officer's mother said he was a great young man that made a mistake. Mistake's kill, as we've seen. If he gets manslaughter it's max 5 years according to the news. Sad situation all around.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Hell, throwing it into Park or Reverse would destroy the tranny and slow it down.
some if not all modern automatic transmissions have a lock out to prevent engagement of park or reverse when the car is moving.
my 5 speed manual trans has a lock out to prevent going directly from 5th to reverse.
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Originally posted by Trell
So does that mean he is not alowed to put his lights on to respond to any off these issues? Sounds like a dept problem to me, if he is responding to something that just happened I would think he would be alowed to speed up. But you never know..
But that does not give him the rights to drive crazy just for fun, with out his lighs on when he is not responding it any one.
Maybe i am wrong, But i would want cops to actualy have to follow the laws when everything is normal.
So what are the rules?? Are cops alowed to speed?, I see them speeding all the time here with and with out there lights off,
I guess we should just accept ******* cops and agressive cops, and bend over and kiss there ass? Becasue the police dept cant seems to find good cops?
Rolling light & siren, "code 3", is covered by state law & dept policy, all states / depts differ... You can call the community relations officer at your local PD and ask about their code 3 policy.
knowing that; technically, yes, that officer in Cali can use his descrition to roll code 3 to these types of calls and be covered by state law. However, department policies are much more restrictive, local governments do everything, including risking your safety, to avoid liability.
Generally policy says you cant roll code 3 unless "authorized"; by a supervisor directly, or the dispatcher who relays the the supervisors ok. An officer can always ask for permission, but its denied 9 out of 10 times. Departments vary on code 3 regs, LAPD will automatically ok code 3 runs on bank robberies and rapes in progress... my Dept did not. We rolled automatic code to injury accidents / medical emergencies, and thats about it.
My dept policy strictly stated that unless authorized code 3 by a supervisor, you shall obey any and all vehicle codes; ergo stop at stop signs / red lights, no speeding etc. Even as a burglar is in your home, the cops are technically supposed to follow every traffic rule or risk getting in trouble.
It also depends on department activity, I worked in East LA where calls relating to shootings, burglaries, assaults, attempted murders, rapes were common, no way the city wants the liability of police cars rolling code 3 with any regularity. In Beverly Hills where such things are rare, they'll assign 2 or 3 units code 3 to felonies in progress.
The reality is I drove that Corvette Engine Caprice like a NASCAR from hell, unauthorized code 3 100MPH in reverse on the sidewalk to back a fellow officer. The "P-pack" Chevys were re-chipped 5.7 liter vette engine rockets with Eagle GTs, heavy duty suspension, oil / tranny coolers.. they hauled balls.
But for you people... I got there when I got there. How fast I drove depended on what I thought my chances of catching the bad guy were. The closer I was, I flew... across town?, eh.. not worth the risk to my job. Some nights I got 20 or more calls, rushing to all of them all the time is guaranteed career disaster.
Rolling code 3 can actually be a pain, people simply do not pull to the right, and it is strictly 100% forbidden to pass on the right while rolling code; they will suddenly decide to yield as you pass, crashing into the unit. Its often easier to just roll, using the occasional lights & siren to clear intersections... which is against policy, but its done.
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Turning on the lights and siren is not some cure all for traffic. Frankly most of the time the idiots driving on the road tend to do exactly the wrong thing like stop right smack in the middle of the road or intersction. There is also no information at this time in the original thread situation to indicate that there was any chance to see the lights or even hear the siren if the patrol car had been using them at the time.
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For the benefit of the rest of the english speaking world; to "run a stop sign" means to proceed past a stop sign at a traffic intersection without heeding.
The frustration of an american trying to negotiate global english motivates me to clarify this.
:p