Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FALCONWING on October 07, 2006, 03:22:09 PM
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I know there has been a lot of arena imbalance in numbers...wide swings and uneven numbers...
I hear a lot of folks asking people to move to other countries to distribute fairly...but honestly this doesnt work well for a few reasons:
1) human nature
a: People generally like having an advantage
b: People like flying with specific others who dont want to switch
2) There are THREE countries...so evening out numbers doesnt mean that they will then fight each other equally...instead one country may now get ganged by 2x its numbers so why give up an advantage for what may result in disadvantage.
3) Numbers swing widely and chasing them is like herding cats
Honestly i see that happening now...Bish have more numbers..Knits/Rooks have a larger number of their folks fighting the bish...this works for me...in fact it makes more sense then jumping to to other countries and constantly having to adjust your game to be fair to others.
But it is still a bad solution soooo.....
Could ENY (or similar system) be programmed to work like this...
1) Number of occupied enemy airfields affects eny (i.e. country with base advantage is proportionally penalized) (may keep base taking to a minimum) So if country A has 40% of available fields..its ENY will be higher then country that only has 20% even if it has less numbers of players
2) ENY varies with number of enemy in flight against each specific country. so if country A + B are ganging country C...then they BOTH suffer the same ENY that is not solely based on their individual number in flight but is based on their COMBINED numbers in flight against a specific country. AND country C (even though it may have more numbers then either country A or B) has an ENY that reflects numbers of enemy actually in flight against it.
3) ENY varies depending where on the map you are fighting! (YES there would be zones)
How will this help??? Well this will encourage more even distribution around the whole arena. If i can get better planes flying against Country A vs Country C...then my human nature will opt for that area of the map. If ganging country B is my goal...then the ENY will limit me accordingly...and probably dissuade some from wanting to be there with me.
(This is not supposed to be a grief thread or flame opportunity...just an idea to try and make gameplay better)
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war is not supposed to be fair.
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Originally posted by john9001
war is not supposed to be fair.
To quote HiTech roughly, he said once that while war is neither meant to be fun or fair, a war GAME is supposed to be fun, AND fair.
This isn't a war, noob.
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you calling me a "noob"? that is a personal attack.
i guess you are one of the "elite" :lol
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Great suggestion,
wipass
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Not even. If you truly believe that this is a war, then you are a complete noob.
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I wrote a huuuuge post just now. Heck, re-wrote it twice.
Decided not to post it. I was afraid of feelings being hurt, or gosh forbid horizions expanded.
Let's all just assume it was well thought out, and made many valid points with some humor sprinkled in here and there.
Basically I disagreed with most of what FALCONWING posted. The # of fields thing is interesting, but moot.
So let's all agree how wonderful I am, and how insightful my (almost) post was and how horribly wrong FALCONWING is.
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john9001
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 4777
Stang
Senior Member
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 3159
stang is the least dweeby by almost 2 years, i'll agree with whatever stang said.
PS: Lute for president.
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But this is a war then, right Bat?
:rolleyes:
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im agreeing with you dummy. :D
the longer yuo play and post on these forums the more of a dweeb you are, hence, between you and john90210 you are the lest dweeby, therefore agree with what ever youre saying.
PS: Lute for president.
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:aok
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
john9001
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 4777
Stang
Senior Member
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 3159
stang is the least dweeby by almost 2 years, i'll agree with whatever stang said.
PS: Lute for president.
B@tfinkV
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 2046
Hmm, 2000+ posts in 10 months, where does that put you on the Dweebness scale?
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Originally posted by MOSQ
B@tfinkV
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 2046
Hmm, 2000+ posts in 10 months, where does that put you on the Dweebness scale?
Bat is the "Neo" of dweebyness. He can manipulate the dweebyness at will and turn it upon itself!
:)
EDIT: for horrible spellin
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i think all you "noobs" are off topic.
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i respect Lute not getting personal and respect that he does not care for my idea:aok
but do others see merit in this concept?
it would dissuade "hordes" and encourage even gameplay spread across a single map. it would work with human nature instead of against it.
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:D grits
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
it would dissuade "hordes" and encourage even gameplay spread across a single map. it would work with human nature instead of against it.
Nothing will ever "dissuade hordes" other than skill and since 90% of the 'virtual' pilots here will never put in the time or effort to learn..... nothing will ever "dissuade hordes".
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Originally posted by DipStick
Nothing will ever "dissuade hordes" other than skill and since 90% of the 'virtual' pilots here will never put in the time or effort to learn..... nothing will ever "dissuade hordes".
Gotta agree, Dip. Too many take the easy way and miss a lot of good stuff on the trip. :(
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FALCONWING: It apears to me you are masking the situation.
I.E. The game can be about war tatics, stratagy, where to fight,what country your country attacks. Your system removes some of those stratigy items.
2nd your system does absolutly nothing to create a force to equal the numbers in the countries. (i.e. Imbalance might be exatly what you wish)
And that apears to be your goal, and my GUESS would be you wish to do so, so that you can continue to promote your own airforce. And want to try come up with a work around where you can validate totaly imbalanced numbers by some other means, and hence still do not have to look at the imbalance problems airforces like yours creates.
2) There are THREE countries...so evening out numbers doesnt mean that they will then fight each other equally...instead one country may now get ganged by 2x its numbers so why give up an advantage for what may result in disadvantage.
Got to love the cause and effect here. Are you realy trying to state that having more numbers in your country is a disadvantage. I would say that is one huge stretch.
HiTech
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Im sorry you seem to view me with suspicion....its really very disappointing and disheartening...
my "airforce" was always on the lower number country for the last 2-3 years and grew probably because of the fact there was such an imbalance. in fact there were very few "BoP Bashing" threads before your change and I dared to question the change. My "Air force" never jumped to the easier countries and were always in the midst of the worst parts of any map.
I agree that my post does not have a way to "make" people jump countries to even out numbers. As i have posted...i dont think that people will do that. That is my postulate. Until you decide to move to two countries, it will never make sense because there is always a third country that can screw up the "balance".
Instead my post was trying to come up with a system that would try to even out the playing field given the fact that people won't on their own even out an imbalance.
And yes having numbers CAN be a disadvantage...though i will agree that in general it helps...
If country A has 150 players and country B & C both have 100 then Country A suffers an ENY. Now if Country A is being ganged by country B & C, then it has to fight EVEN numbers in flight WITH the restrictions that an eny provides. Other night we were being ganged AND having to fend off
other country's cheap 262's beacuase the individual country numbers being the only thing to dictate ENY. Now if 25 of country A jump to country C..it doesnt stop the gangbang...it helps with eny but not the fact that there is blood in the water and other countries are pressing for reset.
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lol, A kill has been recorded.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
Now if Country A is being ganged by country B & C, then it has to fight EVEN numbers in flight WITH the restrictions that an eny provides.
Falc, be honest, that almost never happens. What usually happens is the path of least resistance is taken and the two larger countries gang up on the smallest in the race to the reset. What you refer to might happen 1% of the time in the MA.
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Stang
I am being honest.
Been happening most nights in LW..and overall i think that ganging the bigger country is the way to go.
But what about when countries are equal (say 100 each)..are you telling me that the fights across the map is equal? No...one country gets ganged most often...usually which ever one has least fields or less offensive minded players on. Should there be no ENY recognition that one country is fighting a disproportianate number of players in the arena???
But enuf...you are right..."A Kill Has Been Recorded":aok
I have been exposed for who/what i truly am...
A dishonest, crafty, egocentric, suspicious guy who cares so little about the game that he would purposefully create imbalances so he can build his own empire at others expense. This is obviously due to the fact that I have been a complete failure outside of the virtual world and this i all i have to fall back on...
well played sir;)
HiTech please feel free to close this thread. I will refrain from trying to make anymore suggestions for game improvement...was a mistake.
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my "airforce" was always on the lower number country for the last 2-3 years and grew probably because of the fact there was such an imbalance. in fact there were very few "BoP Bashing" threads before your change and I dared to question the change. My "Air force" never jumped to the easier countries and were always in the midst of the worst parts of any map.
FALCONWING: Please do not confuse my post as bop bashing. I have never stated the Bops wanted to always be on the country side with numbers. Nore do I belive game play like the Bops "win the war" stratagy is a bad thing. Nor do I belive coradinating tatics as a bad thing.
This is exatly the same as I view the laz type game play, I do not belive wanting to just find the closest fight is a bad thing either.
I allso do not belive country or squad loaylty is a bad thing.
All have there place In AH.
But problems arise when any of the above are taken to excess.
For instance lets look at what I view as Laz's ideal arena taken to exess.
Air starts 5k off deck. No bombers,no scoring , artifical box aound the play field, that if you run you are blown up. All planes turning style planes, with no planes faster than others.
This would create one fast paced, continues quick action furball. But what are the side effects.
1. New players would burn out fairly quickly.
2. Will to live dimisish greatly.
3. You never get that successfull feeling of beating the odds, and living to tell the tail.
4. You have very little time to socialize with other players.
So while some furballers would say, hey thats all good stuff, I belive AH would be dead long ago if thats all it was.
It is my belief that creating an "Air force" like the Bop's is a also form of exess.
So I don't view your post as "suspicion".
I do view it as you put
1. Loyalty to "Air Force".
2. Loyalty to "Country"
3. Creating a Sudo realy Air Force, with simalar rules.
4. Creating one of the larger Air Forces in AH.
Above the need for ah's over all game play.
And your post while not stating the above resones I see it as an attempt to try put your rules above AH's game play. I also do not think that you are trying to do this dilibertaly (I.E. I do not believe you think My way or AH be damed)
I view you more like,
These would be your thoughts.
"I see problems like Imbalance , lower arena limits,less friendly arenas then of old. But I think that we can change other things to still let me implemnt my "Air force" pryorities.
What I believe you do not see , is simply you have taken it to exess.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Nore do I belive game play like the Bops "win the war" stratagy is a bad thing. Nor do I belive coradinating tatics as a bad thing.
This is exatly the same as I view the laz type game play, I do not belive wanting to just find the closest fight is a bad thing either.
I allso do not belive country or squad loaylty is a bad thing.
All have there place In AH.
Thank you.
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HiTech: with respect i must say that i dont think you know who/what BoPs do. I believe your concept of us has been colored by other posters who say we are "hording win the war types"
I can HONESTLY say that i dont think I have been present for more then 15-20 map resets that bishops have won in the last 4-5 years. We do capture bases but they were usually occupied fields that were originally bish.
In fact, i didnt capture my first field this campaign until yesterday morning.
I respect the fact you think our numbers are excessive...but again feel free to check our rosters and see how many active members we have...i think u wil be suprised that we field about 20 players tops at most times...hardly an excessive number. squad night for 2 hours we have 35+.
So if I and my squad are not "win the war" types..then what are we? We like to fly together...we like "to do" something....thats my "magic". I give guys a place to hang out (ch 182) and "do" things (fiter sweep, base capture, resupply. sinka cv, defend a base). Again i request that you take away the ability to "win" a war. That would be no threat to our squad. Its not what we are about. Feel free to visit our website...even the private pages...you wont see one post about "winning a war"...its not celebrated as you seem to think.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
HiTech: with respect i must say that i dont think you know who/what BoPs do. I believe your concept of us has been colored by other posters who say we are "hording win the war types"
I can HONESTLY say that i dont think I have been present for more then 15-20 map resets that bishops have won in the last 4-5 years. We do capture bases but they were usually occupied fields that were originally bish.
In fact, i didnt capture my first field this campaign until yesterday morning.
I respect the fact you think our numbers are excessive...but again feel free to check our rosters and see how many active members we have...i think u wil be suprised that we field about 20 players tops at most times...hardly an excessive number. squad night for 2 hours we have 35+.
So if I and my squad are not "win the war" types..then what are we? We like to fly together...we like "to do" something....thats my "magic". I give guys a place to hang out (ch 182) and "do" things (fiter sweep, base capture, resupply. sinka cv, defend a base). Again i request that you take away the ability to "win" a war. That would be no threat to our squad. Its not what we are about. Feel free to visit our website...even the private pages...you wont see one post about "winning a war"...its not celebrated as you seem to think.
Umm..I saw you guys reset the MW map a couple hours ago-- there were more Bop's on than either of the totals of the other 2 countries-- reminds me of JG54 and the old CT
(in fairness, wouldnt have been that big a deal before the change)
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
I respect the fact you think our numbers are excessive...but again feel free to check our rosters and see how many active members we have...i think u wil be suprised that we field about 20 players tops at most times...hardly an excessive number. squad night for 2 hours we have 35+.
You have to be kidding!!! And here I thought 11 on squad night was outstanding for my squad. 35 IS a country! No offense Falconwing or to the BOP's, just amazed you guys have so many.
Lambo
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Unfortunately nowadays 35 is a country...i recognize this and am trying to adapt the squad for fairer gameplay...we try to fly LW and MW...numbers during day are bad tho and that IS where i captured the bases yesterday (tho in fairness we didnt horde a single base..3 guys per capture...mainly osties and m3s..but even then..no defense at all) Early a.m. MW seems to be a great place to score pad...
But we are not the only large squad...Knits have several equally large squads. I dont know what has happened to the rooks....their largest squad seems to have become inactive which is a shame...but before the arena change...numbers were fairly even amongst the countries...now they are very imbalanced and i dont see many ex-knits or ex-rooks as bish.
Have knits and rooks lost players???
HiTech: i have read your last post with interest and appreciate your tone and message. I will try to do what i can to help the community
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Originally posted by hitech
...artifical box aound the play field, that if you run you are blown up...
:lol
That would rule. Boom!
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Would it blow up your POS a1 wonder plane????
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Originally posted by bj229r
Umm..I saw you guys reset the MW map a couple hours ago-- there were more Bop's on than either of the totals of the other 2 countries-- reminds me of JG54 and the old CT
(in fairness, wouldnt have been that big a deal before the change)
...er...my recollection is that the squad in question was JG3.
- oldman (OTOH, my mind plays tricks these days)
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What about if the side with the lowest numbers gets some of them there fancy AI drones?
Basically make up for the lack of real players on a side with drones?
So mabye instead of ENY restrictions, the team with the lower numbers gets AI, and have their skill level be variable with how much one side is outnumbered...
ie the team with the lowest numbers gets the most skilled AI?
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It was the CT squad with Storch and Kong..JG somethin--they all flew LW