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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on October 07, 2006, 05:28:32 PM

Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: JB88 on October 07, 2006, 05:28:32 PM
link to download (http://download.windowsvista.com/preview/rc2/en/download.htm)


i've never tried out a beta OS...

i am using a dell e1505 laptop with an intel 1.67 mhz duo core and a gig of ram.


what do you think...good idea or bad idea to try?
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: moot on October 08, 2006, 05:22:54 AM
Isn't Vista the one with excessive DRM imbedding?
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Nilsen on October 08, 2006, 05:28:44 AM
I would try.. you can always go back if you dont like it.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: DiabloTX on October 08, 2006, 05:29:57 AM
"windows vista" ------>search button.

You'll find Skuzzy's dissertation on why he thinks vista is a nightmare.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Skuzzy on October 08, 2006, 07:26:28 AM
In case any of you are not aware, MS has created a new department (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/oct06/10-04SoftwareProtection.mspx) which seems innocent enough, but makes you wonder what is really going to happen.

I am not touching this OS with a ten foot pole.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: moot on October 08, 2006, 07:30:11 AM
Is Vista the only MS-OS for DX10 games?
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 08, 2006, 09:33:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
In case any of you are not aware, MS has created a new department (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/oct06/10-04SoftwareProtection.mspx) which seems innocent enough, but makes you wonder what is really going to happen.

I am not touching this OS with a ten foot pole.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gentlemen, that statement above is why Skuzzy makes the big bucks.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: lukster on October 08, 2006, 10:35:06 AM
I hate playing the devil's advocate but the new anti-piracy scheme really isn't all that much different from what we have in XP from what I've read.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Mini D on October 08, 2006, 10:48:04 AM
I don't actually mind anti-piracy code built into an OS. I do believe you should pay for the things on your PC that you actually like. Call me old fashioned.

What I don't like is the way the window opens up for Microsoft to charge software companies for licensing rights. Don't pay us? Your software won't work on our OS. They already get the developers with the development suite fees and the "Microsoft Certified" fees, but there's just sooo much more to be had.

I see this as hurting a company like HTC that gives the software away for free and charges for server time if they require any kind of licensing process.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: lukster on October 08, 2006, 10:53:43 AM
From what I've read the anit-piracy feature only works with Vista itself for now. The MS press release indicated that other MS products would eventually be included. There was no mention of including third party products. I think it much more likely that a company would pay MS for the privledge of protecting their product rather than pay for your product to run in windows. That would surely drive many to Linux.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 08, 2006, 10:56:22 AM
The only thing I don't like about it is the minium system requirements, and the fact that its so new the hackers are gonna have a field day with it until service pack 2 or maybe even 3 comes out say in about 5 years?

The anti Piracy thing I kinda like, cause it kinda helps to stop theives.

I heard some people the other day already talking about the anti-piracy code breaker thing for vista when it comes out, so apprently theres already one made and waiting.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: lukster on October 08, 2006, 10:59:50 AM
Of course MS is claiming it to be more resilient to hack/spyware/virus attacks. Only time will tell.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: mipoikel on October 08, 2006, 11:07:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy


I am not touching this OS with a ten foot pole.


So how you are going to give support for AH players who use vista if you dont touch it. Lets say about 1-2 years from now. :D
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Nilsen on October 08, 2006, 11:14:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
So how you are going to give support for AH players who use vista if you dont touch it. Lets say about 1-2 years from now. :D


Outsourcing.. when you call HTC in 2 years you will speak with mr. India-Na Paki-Stani.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: wooley on October 08, 2006, 02:11:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
So how you are going to give support for AH players who use vista if you dont touch it. Lets say about 1-2 years from now. :D


This is a good point.

Vista is not going to be adopted en-mass by the business community anytime soon.  They will continue with XP-Pro or 2000 at least until all the early adoptors have completed beta testing - round about the release of Service Pack 1.

The thing that will drive sales of Vista are consumer PC's - Joe Public buying a new machine from Comp USA or PC World. And whilst many of us would be comfortable removing Vista and installing a different operating system of our choice, the vast majority of people wouldn't know where to begin with that.

These consumer level users will - I assume - make up the majority of AH subscribers and as they renew PCs they'll find themselves on Vista without much choice.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Vulcan on October 08, 2006, 03:18:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dmf
The anti Piracy thing I kinda like, cause it kinda helps to stop theives.


Actually it doesn't. All it has done is caused legitimate users headaches. It was a minor speedbump to software pirates.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Skuzzy on October 08, 2006, 03:23:14 PM
Ok, let me clarify.  I, personally, will not touch it with a ten foot pole.  I still have Windows 2000 on my office system and have no trouble supporting XP.

While I am all for anti-piracy, the scheme MS has in mind is far more intrusive than I care for and like most things MS, the story they are giving is not the entire story.  I can see some serious intrusion being done from MS.

wooley, American business will have no choice but to adopt Vista if they want to continue thier support contracts with MS.  Pretty much covers the Fortune 500 companies.

Yes, Vista is the only way you will get DirectX 10.  It will not be available for any other Microsoft OS. The initial DX10 games will not run on any other version of DirectX.  The developers appear to have been persuaded to do it that way (knudge-knudge-wink-wink).
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Vulcan on October 08, 2006, 04:55:48 PM
Given the problems with XP WGA I'm going to enjoy the fireworks that go off with Vista. All the people with legit copies that don't work, all the people that find it phoning home (or trying too).

I foresee class action lawsuits in Microsofts future.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 08, 2006, 06:38:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Actually it doesn't. All it has done is caused legitimate users headaches. It was a minor speedbump to software pirates.


Your probally right, I havent had any headaces yet, just had to click a couple of things to us eteh updates, but if I ever do theres always linux.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Sweet2th on October 08, 2006, 06:56:43 PM
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole? i would tackle it and not let anyone near it if i were you.Vista totally rocks for a OS.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Billy Joe Bob on October 08, 2006, 06:59:25 PM
is it stable???? i would like to download it because my XP is acting twitchy and i have been eyeballing vista for a long time
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Sweet2th on October 08, 2006, 07:02:38 PM
yea it is stable.It simplify's things so well and makes operating a computer even easier than XP.

It's stable i have been running it for well over 6 months now.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Billy Joe Bob on October 08, 2006, 07:06:28 PM
ok woo ... and do games run faster on it??? my bf2 is laggy as hell
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Roscoroo on October 08, 2006, 08:54:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sweet2th
yea it is stable.It simplify's things so well and makes operating a computer even easier than XP.

It's stable i have been running it for well over 6 months now.


its stable ????? What the hell have you not been running or trying to do with it ????

Vista never idles the Cpu cycles .. its ussing mass amounts of ram ... my fps in AH is almost 1/2 of what it is on the "Same" pc running w2k . so far 10% of my fav games/programs dont work correctly in vista .. I cant run my AV program succesfully now .... it still has a "thinking stutter/stall " that I cant stand ..

Simple yes ... but come problem time its a pain . (Have you tryed editing the registry yet ? )  

Is it Ready for us Gamers ??? NO WAY .

its nothing but eye candy at the moment still .  

I should get RC2 tommorrow (i get the official test beta cd's )
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Billy Joe Bob on October 08, 2006, 10:54:50 PM
in PC gamer a while ago they said on a lower end pc that it was faster than XP on a high end one
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Sweet2th on October 08, 2006, 11:15:28 PM
The version i downloaded from a private source had some issues.The version i got from Billy Gates is werking fine.I mainly use it for the video production process in which it makes editing film a dream.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Billy Joe Bob on October 08, 2006, 11:55:55 PM
will it be fine for bf2 and the like?
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Skuzzy on October 09, 2006, 06:55:46 AM
It requires far more RAM than XP or 2K.  Double your computers system RAM amount so you are able to do the same things as you were doing with XP/2K.  If you are a gamer, you probably should consider 4GB of RAM to be the minimum you need, especially if you enable Aero.

The OS is not ready to be used in a production environment.  That is to say, if you value your data, you should wait.  Games will run slower.  Most applications will run slower.

This is another one of those OS's like XP was when it was released.  I recall many people saying how wonderful it was.  5 years later, patches are still coming out for the OS.  Vista will be worse.

Vista also takes more control away from you.  Like Rosco said, wait until you try to fix a problem.  And there will be many problems to fix.  I wonder if RC2 will have the full DRM enabled.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: JB88 on October 09, 2006, 07:03:38 AM
so what exactly are the differences between xp and vista then?
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: J_A_B on October 09, 2006, 08:22:15 AM
There are applications available over the net which remove WGA if you have it on your system.  WGA is essentially spyware.


I have no intention of 'upgrading' to Vista (and I use the term 'upgrade' loosely, as that OS represents a serious downgrade in most aspects) until my current operating system no longer runs the programs I want to run.  I expect this will be several years from now at the very minimum, as nothing I'm interested in is DX10-only.

J_A_B
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Easyscor on October 09, 2006, 10:07:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
I hate playing the devil's advocate but the new anti-piracy scheme really isn't all that much different from what we have in XP from what I've read.
Depends, true if you're using MS Media Player 10.

The problem I see for XP users is on the MS website.  They say they intend to stop support for XP in ~5 years and I'm sorry now I didn't boodmark the page.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: lukster on October 09, 2006, 10:10:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
so what exactly are the differences between xp and vista then?


I don't know what all the differences are but it does have nice "glass" interface, a 3d mode for switching between running apps, and is reportedly more hardened against spyware and viruses.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Nilsen on October 09, 2006, 10:28:30 AM
Do you have to type in username and password to install stuff on vista?


I wish they had gotten rid of the registry, and as far as i remember that was their original plan with vista.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Makarov9 on October 09, 2006, 10:53:54 AM
Nilsen, I didn't put a password so it just pops up asking you to make sure you want to install things. Not sure if you have a password if it'll pop-up everytime.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Nilsen on October 09, 2006, 11:10:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Makarov9
Nilsen, I didn't put a password so it just pops up asking you to make sure you want to install things. Not sure if you have a password if it'll pop-up everytime.


Ah ok

That feature (given that you use a password) actually gives you better security. A welcome addition for me atleast.

I dont care about the bling it may come with and i hope you can turn off all the eye-candy i vista like you can in XP.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Mustaine on October 09, 2006, 11:22:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ok, let me clarify.  I, personally, will not touch it with a ten foot pole.  I still have Windows 2000 on my office system and have no trouble supporting XP.

While I am all for anti-piracy, the scheme MS has in mind is far more intrusive than I care for and like most things MS, the story they are giving is not the entire story.  I can see some serious intrusion being done from MS.

wooley, American business will have no choice but to adopt Vista if they want to continue thier support contracts with MS.  Pretty much covers the Fortune 500 companies.

Yes, Vista is the only way you will get DirectX 10.  It will not be available for any other Microsoft OS. The initial DX10 games will not run on any other version of DirectX.  The developers appear to have been persuaded to do it that way (knudge-knudge-wink-wink).
few questions Skuzzy... would I be correct in assuming HiTechCreations will not be writing new coad for Aces High in DX10, sticking with 9 for the games functions? side related to this... if Vista is going to be that hard for smaller game developers to intergrate with, is HTC looking into developing the game for any other platform (linux) orsomething else in the future, and dropping M$ altogether? (I know this is a tricky question, as the whole reason games are made for M$ compatibality is the prevelance of the OS... but what if Vista flops in the consumer market?)


second, i don't know all the anti-piracy things they are planning, but would one have to be concerned about CD's they own and being easily able to make MP3's of them and things of that nature in Vista?


thanks
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 09, 2006, 12:18:11 PM
MS is playing things right into Linux's pocket. Anyone tried the latest Ubuntu linux lately?

Windoze apps run mighty fast on Wine or crossover office. No wonder they're lobbying like crazy to make Linux illegal.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Skuzzy on October 09, 2006, 01:43:57 PM
Vista has backward compatibility to DX9, so it is no problem for us.  All it means for us is we cannot develope for DX10 until it is the only thing in the marketplace.  Have to figure that will be a good 5 to 6 years out.

Yes, the anti-piracy thing has a potential wide range of impacts.  How about being able to copy a purchased DVD/CD?  I have to really wonder what impact it will have on HD as well.  HD and BluRay DVD's already have some substantial protection mechanisms, but then MS adds more on top of that.

Lot of questions which have not been answered.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: vorticon on October 09, 2006, 01:57:18 PM
"The problem I see for XP users is on the MS website. They say they intend to stop support for XP in ~5 years and I'm sorry now I didn't boodmark the page."


dont intend on supporting a OS when its nearly 10 years old?

:cry
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Skuzzy on October 09, 2006, 02:49:30 PM
MS always terminates the service/support for an OS.  They did it for 2K and there are still many 2K users out there who are not having any issue at all.

They will kill support for XP, but it does not mean the OS stops working.  I'll hang on to Xp until it either stops running my applications, or a better OS comes along which can run my applications.


All this talk about Vista,....anyone seen the pricing?

in U.S. dollars, for full versions/upgrades
Vista Ultimate: $399.00 / $259.00 (combines Business and Premium)
Vista Business: $299.00 / $199.00 (no Media Center, more management tools, very similar to XP Professional)
Vista Home Premium: $239.00 / $159.00 (Aero support plus Media Center)
Vista Home Basic: $199.00 / $99.00 (no Aero support)

You folks outside the U.S. will have separate pricing which, oddly enough, does not correspond to the U.S. pricing.

MS will be spending just shy of $1 billion U.S. dollars on the ad and marketing campaign for Vista.  Wonder where they got that budget from?  Oh yeah, from all us mooks who paid too much for thier OS.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Nilsen on October 09, 2006, 03:18:26 PM
I guess 6 months from now you wont be able to buy a computer without Vista tho. Atleast not any leading brand puters, and I doubt they will cost more because Vista is loaded on them.

There may be a different Vista available here than in the US if the EU points its finger at something that needs to be left out.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Skuzzy on October 09, 2006, 03:27:59 PM
Yep, OEM's will be the first victims for sure.  To keep the cost down, you can bet they will only be offering the Home or Home Premium versions.

I hedged my bets a bit.  I already bought an extra copy of XP Pro just in case I want to build another system in the next few years and get rid of one of the older comps.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Makarov9 on October 09, 2006, 03:32:38 PM
Yea, spending $300 for a video card every two years is okie-dokie but spending $200 on an OS every 4-5 years makes you a mook. PC-DOS 4.0 for life!
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: JB88 on October 09, 2006, 03:32:57 PM
<----- I R TEH MOOK.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Nilsen on October 09, 2006, 03:36:34 PM
If memory serves me right then it wont be long until the major brands starts shipping cupons for Vista with their systems. Im guessing November or Desember.... maybe January at the latest.

I have a fresh XP Pro pack on the shelf too that was supposed to go into a selfbuildt system that never got buildt.

My old Thinkpad T23 still has Win2k on it and it works great for most things and was excellent for AH1. I think it will outlive Vista.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Mustaine on October 09, 2006, 03:37:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I hedged my bets a bit.  I already bought an extra copy of XP Pro just in case I want to build another system in the next few years and get rid of one of the older comps.
thats not a bad idea...

2 questions:

1. I have a copy, and using it right now. I build a replacement PC, I can still use that one, unless I am mistaken correct? (by building I mean not using the MB / HD / of the current system, all new fresh install, and toss the old stuff)

2. if you buy a new copy, and don't use it for 2 years or so, will it still be able to be activated that long from now?
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Nilsen on October 09, 2006, 03:44:19 PM
You can use your old copy Mustaine. If electronkic registration gives you trouble, then there is a number you can call to get a new one. You just say that you have moved the copy to a new machine
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Skuzzy on October 09, 2006, 03:51:46 PM
In my case, my Wife is going to need a new computer within 2 years.

Makar, you go right ahead and jump on that bandwagon.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: DiabloTX on October 09, 2006, 04:40:07 PM
Imagine if you had to replace the engine in your car every 4 - 5 years or even sooner.  I can understand replacing the intake or the cam every 2 years just to get more power but if GM or Ford or any of the manufacturers had a built-in "must replace" on the engine...oh the horror....
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Shuffler on October 09, 2006, 04:53:31 PM
DRM will keep me away from Vista.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Vulcan on October 09, 2006, 05:12:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mustaine
1. I have a copy, and using it right now. I build a replacement PC, I can still use that one, unless I am mistaken correct? (by building I mean not using the MB / HD / of the current system, all new fresh install, and toss the old stuff)


That depends on whether it is a retail or OEM version. If its an OEM version the license cannot be transfered.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 09, 2006, 05:30:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
so what exactly are the differences between xp and vista then?


XP has a lot of its security holes fixed and you can play games on it with 256 meg of ram and a 1 gig processor.
Vista, you can't play any games that arent designed for Vista, and none of the security holes have been fixed yet.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Roscoroo on October 09, 2006, 06:22:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dmf

Vista, you can't play any games that arent designed for Vista, and none of the security holes have been fixed yet.


your wrong ... (i suggest you test it befor making that statement)

Vista does play  games its still dx9 capable ... the problem is,,, its like running 3 operating systems at the same time on the same pc .  

other problem coming out with vista is "everything" will have to be microsoft Approved / digitally signed drivers / software ...
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 09, 2006, 07:24:44 PM
I read somewhere that everything had to be upgraded in order to play games or even install Vista. If it will run games that play on XP, then the only thing we have to fear is the stuff Skuzzy talked about and the security holes :) I bet the hackers are gonna have a fiel day with Vista.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: Masherbrum on October 09, 2006, 07:27:58 PM
I'm a Mook as well.
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 09, 2006, 07:29:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'm a Mook as well.

HUH?
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 09, 2006, 07:31:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Yep, OEM's will be the first victims for sure.  To keep the cost down, you can bet they will only be offering the Home or Home Premium versions.

I hedged my bets a bit.  I already bought an extra copy of XP Pro just in case I want to build another system in the next few years and get rid of one of the older comps.


I'll just keep getting computers from pawn shops LOL
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: JB88 on October 09, 2006, 08:46:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dmf
HUH?



"MS will be spending just shy of $1 billion U.S. dollars on the ad and marketing campaign for Vista. Wonder where they got that budget from? Oh yeah, from all us mooks who paid too much for thier OS" -skuzzy
Title: VISTA rc2 released
Post by: dmf on October 10, 2006, 03:45:04 PM
Oh, well like I said I got my computer from a pawn shop:) didn't have to buy a windows disk, just delete a bunch of garbage off this thing.