Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: doobs on October 11, 2006, 02:00:59 PM
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Just happened, small plane or helicopter hit a apartment building,on the upper west side
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it was small palne on 72nd street, plane hit building and crashed down to the sidewalk.
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I came home from school today and was flipping around on tv and found out that there were uncomfirmed reports that a plane had hit a building in NYC...I hope this was an accident after the 9/11 attacks and I only live 20 mins from nyc and I can see the smoke from the roof of my house and many of my family live in nyc....please keep the people in nyc in your thoughts and prayers.
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10 11!!!:noid
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11 11?
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Is it overcast in NYC today?
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It looks to be a helicopter...Here in Connecticut we are IMC...Im sure NYC is the same...I have flown the hudson river cordor many of times, and when you are flying under the class B airspace it is crazy as can be...I cant imagine flying it today with these wx conditions...I am sure this is just a very unfortunate accident...It's pretty damn scary that most of us will never know when our last day will be
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Originally posted by Stang
Is it overcast in NYC today?
METAR KLGA 111851Z 10013KT 9SM OVC018 18/13 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP118 T01830128
1800 feet, and these guys are flying 800agl and below....unfortunate accident
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They are saying now that it was definatly a small fixed wing airplane.
THey found the landing gear on the sidewalk a few moments ago.
So far they say its NOT a terrorist attack, however that could change.
They are reporting that the A/C was on visual flight rules and not on instruments.
2 bodies have been found possibly the pilot/ passanger.
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wow! CNN just announced that fighters will be scrambled to CAP major citys!
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Originally posted by cav58d
wow! CNN just announced that fighters will be scrambled to CAP major citys!
Thats SOP for this kind of "incident" until its confirmed that this was an accident.
with all the different eyewitness accts they arent 100% sure just yet
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Hmmm a anonymous police source has told nbc that the plane made a HARD 90 degree right turn..
its totally specualation at this point but, it could have been several things to cause this from suicide to mechanical problems or maybe a medical problem.
only time will tell exactly what happened
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I'm betting on a lone loony - like the young kid who crashed a small plane into a building shortly after 9-11.
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On the ground here not far from Camp David. Had some military jets fly by a while ago but didn't see what they were.
Dulles departures look stopped...had a few heavies takeoff and appear to fly right back toward IAD. CNN.com showed a small fire but now that people will 'calm down' because it isn't a terrorist thing hopefully it'll be back to Business as Usual.
In fact just over my shoulder a hawker just departed so hopefully we'll get out of here too.
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Just saw this on the news here...
I hope that this is just an accident and nothing else...
Goodluck to all of us
Later All
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Just heard what I think to be A-10's fly over my house...Although its not entirely common, we do have the 103rd fighter wing out of Hartford, and I did see two A-10's fly over my house yesterday...
Pretty freaky when you put on the local news and there is a white bar scrolling below the picture saying fighter jets have been launched as a pre caution, do not be concerned if you see them...
Everytime I have flown the Cordor it has been down the Hudson...I have never seen anyone over the East River, because I believe that gets into LGA and Kennedy Airspace...I'll have to dig up the old TAC and check er out
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Originally posted by Golfer
On the ground here not far from Camp David. Had some military jets fly by a while ago but didn't see what they were.
Dulles departures look stopped...had a few heavies takeoff and appear to fly right back toward IAD. CNN.com showed a small fire but now that people will 'calm down' because it isn't a terrorist thing hopefully it'll be back to Business as Usual.
In fact just over my shoulder a hawker just departed so hopefully we'll get out of here too.
KFDK?
based on what you know about the NYC airspace, what frequency would be the best to get from the liveatc.net archive?
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Scary, I only heard one F16 at lunch at 12:30 today, I live about 5 miles from Buckley AFB anyhow so I feel fairly safe.
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Okay MSNBC is officially the worst station ever....they are now claiming it may be something more than they first thought because "clearly this pilot should have been in full contact with atc"...they even went as far as pulling out a nyc tac chart....goddangit I hate news anchors trying 2 talk aviation whent hey know watermelon about chit
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It might be something more - even if a lone kook.
Take this date, 9-11-01 and turn it upside down
you have 10-11-6:noid
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fox was worse just now, had a fat ex cop talking aviation and he isnt even a pilot....screaming about unrestricted airspace. Pretty obvious he has no clue how flightplans and airspace work. Yet he is screaming and trying to scare people.
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Doesn't seem too serious, building looks in no danger of collapse, at least. The floors below will be screwed due to water damage, and the ones above due to smoke, but otherwise it doesn't seem like a terrorist attack. At least, not an effective, competent terrorist. My guess is that this was a sad accident.
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It was Yankee pitcher Cory Lidle's plane, reports say he didn't survive.
Sure made some here flinch though.
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Originally posted by cav58d
Just heard what I think to be A-10's fly over my house...Although its not entirely common, we do have the 103rd fighter wing out of Hartford, and I did see two A-10's fly over my house yesterday...
Pretty freaky when you put on the local news and there is a white bar scrolling below the picture saying fighter jets have been launched as a pre caution, do not be concerned if you see them...
Everytime I have flown the Cordor it has been down the Hudson...I have never seen anyone over the East River, because I believe that gets into LGA and Kennedy Airspace...I'll have to dig up the old TAC and check er out
And Migs do BFMs over mine :P
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wow i cant watch the news ne more...these people r freaking retarded
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Cirrus SR-20. Plus, he may have busted class bravo. You can watch the flight on Passur:
http://www4.passur.com/ewr.html
Set the clock there for October 11th, 14:30 pm, then click on the first
aircraft that departs Teterboro. Of interest, didja know that, according to the POH, the only way to recover from a spin in that plane is to deploy the parachute?
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Just called these 2 guys over at AOPA:
Suggest follow up from others also.....
Chris Dancy
Media Relations Director
301-695-2159
Kathleen Vasconcelos
Media Relations Specialist
301-695-2158
Told them get their tulips in gear - that all the major networks were doing hatchet jobs with guys on TV who had no background in aviation.
Wolf
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good wolf...as im sure you have flown the cordor many times, we both know this reporting is dead wrong, and im nervous that these mistakes may lead to the closing of the cordor because dumb *** news scaring everyone
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Is this near another one of those "VFR corridors" that are 500 feet tall and over water? NYC has a few of those on the charts that make me shake my head. Looks unnerving, found out about 'em when that tour plane crashed a couple years ago.
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Aren't these the planes with a ballastic chute recovery system?
Heard on the radio he'd declared an emergency and might have been turning back to the airport.
Sad
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It sais alot about the world when this is the huge headline at all the online newspapers here while yestedays planecrash here with 4 deaths and todays train crash in France is pushed way down on the front page.
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Cory Lidle's passport was found at the crash site and the aircraft was registered in his name.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
It sais alot about the world when this is the huge headline at all the online newspapers here while yestedays planecrash here with 4 deaths and todays train crash in France is pushed way down on the front page.
I don't recall terrorists flying a french train into the side of buildings and killing thousands lately, can you link me to the story?
It's big news because every single New Yorker thought "terrorist" for a moment when they first heard about the crash, and just about everyone else wondered "Is this 9/11 again?" for at least a few seconds. News is about what sells, and people see patterns where none exist. They see "Plane crash in NY" and can turn into big dumb animals, the media knows how to make money on this. It's basic business.
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What were Thurman Munson's last words?
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Given the pilot, it's going to continue to be "big" news for days to come.
Charon
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Originally posted by LePaul
Aren't these the planes with a ballastic chute recovery system?
Heard on the radio he'd declared an emergency and might have been turning back to the airport.
Sad
Yes it is. I get a chance to fly one possibly next week. My wife saw this today , heard the type of plane it was and was on the pohone to me right off. Saying" Isn't that the type of plane your flying soon?" Said yes. She said she'd rather I didn't. I assured her there are no tall building where I will be flying. She wasn't impressed with that answer.
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I too have flown the corridor many times..the Hudson that is, not the East river. To go up the East river you have to do a 180 right about where the accident took place or you break LGA airspace. The East river is very narrow and should really only be flown in a helicopter. I sure hope they don't shut the Hudson down because of this idiot.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
What were Thurman Munson's last words?
Comin' down!
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Well Sixpence, Im sure the MP-Number brigade will whack that post.
Lame joke. Maybe you should ask Santa for some "tact" :)
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Is this near another one of those "VFR corridors" that are 500 feet tall and over water? NYC has a few of those on the charts that make me shake my head. Looks unnerving, found out about 'em when that tour plane crashed a couple years ago.
Actually the floor of the class B is 1,100. I generally fly it at 8-900, helicopters fly at lower Alts. The Hudson is a really neat trip. You basicly keep to the right, flying S. you stay over the East shore and when you make the turn N. past the "Lady" you stay on the Manhatten side. As I said before, the East river is just to confined for fixed wing. I don't go there. I can't imagine why this instructor took Lidle up in there.
My Daughter is going to school in the Bronx and I was planning on going down soon to take Her and some friends for the Hudson tour. I just got off the phone with her and I'm now planning on doing the trip sooner. Wx permitting in the next few days. This might be my last chance. I'll add the pix to the ones I have from Meigs.:(
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The east river part is a little bit tight, but I just talk to La Guardia Tower and they let me have a little bit of Class B to pop a 180 or just transition through their airspace and outside the B to wherever i'm going next.
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Originally posted by Dnil
fox was worse just now, had a fat ex cop talking aviation and he isnt even a pilot....screaming about unrestricted airspace. Pretty obvious he has no clue how flightplans and airspace work. Yet he is screaming and trying to scare people.
Well, to be fair, it was FOX News.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Well Sixpence, Im sure the MP-Number brigade will whack that post.
Lame joke. Maybe you should ask Santa for some "tact" :)
For those who don't get the joke, the catcher yells "comin down" on the pitcher's final warm up pitch, he then throws down to the SS(a practice throw for base stealing)
btw, you hear he got traded to the angels?
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Edited
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Originally posted by Golfer
Raider you're a tasteless moron. That's about the only way I can politely say anything.
well that was before I looked on CNN.com Yankees guy died
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Edited
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Originally posted by Golfer
Bullchit.
a yankees pitcher did die in the incident
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I call BS on your "excuse", Raider, not on the Yankee.
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PnG Please htc
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We know, mentioning Osama bin Laden and an aeroplane crash in NY is well....completely tasteless though. You might not have intended it to be but it went right down the toilet.
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Raider, just apologize and withdraw your comment if you can still edit it.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
The east river part is a little bit tight, but I just talk to La Guardia Tower and they let me have a little bit of Class B to pop a 180 or just transition through their airspace and outside the B to wherever i'm going next.
That's the way it should be done. He was not in contact with LGA evidently and was probably doing the 180 at a low altitude..not the way to do it.
The Hudson is no problem. once you get South of the lady there is lots of room for a 180. Up the East river unless you are talking to LGA...Just don't do it.
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Isn't this the way those Cleveland indains pitchers died?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Raider, just apologize and withdraw your comment if you can still edit it.
In a way I did apologize but people kept instigateing it
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On what planet does this:
Originally posted by RAIDER14
well that was before I looked on CNN.com Yankees guy died
Count as an apology?
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Edited
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Originally posted by Golfer
I won't miss you if you're gone, Raider.
Happy jumpseating you little P.I.T.A.
if I'm gone??:huh
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An eyewitness described the plane as 'wobbling'. Sounds like slow flight. Low altitude + slow flight sounds like stall territory.
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Originally posted by Golfer
I won't miss you if you're gone, Raider.
Happy jumpseating you little P.I.T.A.
Golfer you need to lighten up. It was an honest mistake and you are protesting way too loud. No one knew who was flying the plane and everyone on this board speculates. Your outrage seems a little thin.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Isn't this the way those Cleveland indains pitchers died?
Oh, wait, that was pier pressure
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Edited.
He deleted the original post that made me mad and as such I did the same.
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Originally posted by BTW
Golfer you need to lighten up. It was an honest mistake and you are protesting way too loud. No one knew who was flying the plane and everyone on this board speculates. Your outrage seems a little thin.
BTW....Some of us do live in the tri state area...Many of us lost loved ones on 9/11, and many of us have flown the hudson river cordor...
Im sorry, but when a thoughtless comment is made like that, yea, its going to spark some emotion
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Grown men taking the internet serious.:D
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I don't recall terrorists flying a french train into the side of buildings and killing thousands lately, can you link me to the story?
It's big news because every single New Yorker thought "terrorist" for a moment when they first heard about the crash, and just about everyone else wondered "Is this 9/11 again?" for at least a few seconds. News is about what sells, and people see patterns where none exist. They see "Plane crash in NY" and can turn into big dumb animals, the media knows how to make money on this. It's basic business.
Yeah.. but I still expected Norwegian media to focus more on a local accident than on a foreign one. Pick any US newspaper that would have a small planecrash in a foreign country as a headline over a larger one in America.
Yes I see that it may have been seen as a terrorist act in the first couple of minutes, but even if it was then it should still be "less inportant" than a local accident.
This is why I said that it sais alot about the world we live in these days.
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Sixpence, cut the crap. You're not funny nor is this unfortunate accident.
Even as a Red Sox fan this is a horrible thing to happen and my heart goes out to Lidle's family and friends. You never want to see someone die so young, especially with a young 6 year old son who will never get a chance to know his father.
This accident hit pretty close to home with me as I'm a huge baseball fan as well as a private pilot. The quotes from Lidle when he talked about General Aviation safety are almost the exact same words I use when people tell me what I do isn't safe.
Regarding the accident itself, I've never seen so many unknowledgable people covering the news in my life. You think they could have hired a guy from a local FBO to at least get the facts out there. The one I love hearing now is that they still don't know why he didn't deploy the 'chute when he was having problems.. I'm not incredibly familiar with the system but I'm sure that below 1000' in those small VFR corridors would be too low for it to work other then to slow the plane to a stop.
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given that you have slightly more than a passing aquaintance with any topic, you'll find that media coverage of that topic is comprized mostly of half truths, myths & poorly drawn conclusions mixed in with correctly spelled proper nouns.
the fact that you pay attention to begin with makes me think that your frustration, now that it happens to be your turn to suffer this indignity, is self inflicted.
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Originally posted by moose
Sixpence, cut the crap. You're not funny nor is this unfortunate accident.
lighten up francis
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The plane crashed into the condo of a Mets coach.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061011&content_id=1709422&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym
Set conspiracy theories to stun!
Pretty crazy coincidence, though. Glad nobody was home.
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even 3rd base coaches in mlb make enough to live in $1,000,000 condos! Third base coaches! Damn, I am picking the wrong profession
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even worse, that lotto winner had the nerve to move into the 'old money' neighborhood
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Teh NTSB et al.
NTSB Identification: DCA07MA003
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Wednesday, October 11, 2006 in Manhattan, NY
Aircraft: Cirrus Design Corp. SR-20, registration: N929CD
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On October 11, 2006, about 2:42 PM eastern daylight time, a Cirrus SR-20, N929CD, crashed into an apartment building in New York City. Both people on board the airplane were killed and the airplane was destroyed by impact forces and post crash fire. No fatalities occurred on the ground. Substantial damage occurred to several of the residences in the building. The pilot and owner was New York Yankee player Cory Lidle, and a California based flight instructor was with him. The flight was operating under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The flight had taken off from Teterboro Airport in New Jersey and appeared to be sightseeing around Manhattan.
Parties to the investigation include the Federal Aviation Administration, Cirrus Design Corporation, Teledyne Continental Motors, Ballistic Recovery System and Hartzell Propeller. The engine and propellers have been shipped to their respective manufactures for NTSB led teardowns and examinations. Instruments of interest have been sent to the NTSB headquarters for further detailed examination. The on-scene portion of the investigation has been completed. The following groups have been formed: airworthiness, operations, witnesses, powerplant, radar, aircraft performance, and weather.
seems a bit different from other investigations...:O :O :mad: :mad: :furious :furious :furious :noid :noid
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what part seems different?
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- its with DC center
- the descirbed throughness of the investigation
- the usage of a person's name
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i wonder if this is just due to the notoriety of the event or maybe this is the straw that broke the Cirrus' back.
is SR-20/SR-22 the MU-2 of piston singles?:O :O :O
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It's the high profile nature of the event that is eliciting this NTSB response.
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maybe, but the Cirruses seem to flop out of the sky a lot more frequently than their Columbia counterparts:noid :noid :noid
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MU-2 / Cirrus is an apt comparison.
Good airplanes with a lot of pilot-error crashes.
With the Mu-2, I think it's because of some tricky procedures that really require someone to be on the ball. With the Cirrus, I think it's because they're aggresively marketing a high performance plane to low time pilots.
BTW, the Columbia is fantastic. If I had a choice between the two, I'd be in the Columbia in a heartbeat. Niiiice planes, and a much better safety record per sold airplane.
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last time i was out preflighting a plane a c-152 there was a Columbia running up nearby, man did that thing sound sweet!!! "tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick" it said, sounded more like an electric motor than a piston
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this accident had nothing to do with the aircraft type. It could have been a similar performing 182 and the outcome would have been the same.
I've seen nothing that was unsafe with a Cirrus. There is a more in depth training program being offered to buyers where you are essentially given a trained and approved CFI with the airplane. The fee is in excess of $70,000 and the CFI gets around $30k or more of that. This will hopefully draw capable and competent people to the training aspect and prevent accidents related to someone being over their head with the less-forgiving airplane when compared with a 172.
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Originally posted by Golfer
this accident had nothing to do with the aircraft type. It could have been a similar performing 182 and the outcome would have been the same.
i dont think you can post that until the investigation is over
Originally posted by Golfer
I've seen nothing that was unsafe with a Cirrus. There is a more in depth training program being offered to buyers where you are essentially given a trained and approved CFI with the airplane. The fee is in excess of $70,000 and the CFI gets around $30k or more of that. This will hopefully draw capable and competent people to the training aspect and prevent accidents related to someone being over their head with the less-forgiving airplane when compared with a 172.
zOMG:O 70 big ones?!?!
you sure it isn't just 7 grand?
i got checked out in a baby bonanza for $1500...
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Golfer, the Mu-2 comparison seemed to suggest that he wasn't criticizing the Cirrus itself. It's a fine plane, it just has a higher than usual share of pilot-error accidents, and consensus seems to be that it's because it's marketed heavily to low time pilots. The Mu-2 is another fine plane that has a high accident rate associated with training deficiencies, not the plane.
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was told around $70k.
Makes me want to get back into the Cirrus. I don't know how many clients they are allowed to have but it sounds like a heck of a gig to me.
Surely not just any joe schmoe CFI will be permitted.
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Cirrus has a program where they rebate your training costs if you use a Cirrus. That'd be about $7k, so I bet that's the actual figure.
$70k? That'd be ATP training for slooooow learners.
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That $70,000+ would be something along the following lines:
Your own assigned instructor with your own scheduling rules to take you through your private and instrument rating and additional training following that. I didn't have any timeframe information.
This is from my former boss telling me what the cirrus folks told someone he knows in his rotary. The guy he knows was so impressed with the way my boss used his airplane for both personal and business purposes he wants to buy a brand new one for himself.
That seems the meat and potatoes market for cirrus. Business and personal use folks. Self-made type men who will feel they can dig in to being a pilot who have enough money to not worry about costs of owning/operating such an airplane.
If it turns out to be true...I picked the very wrong time to get out of the cirrus financially. I did contract work with OurPlane and must say...I liked the airplane. Typically owners are people who earned everything they have and understand the value of such things. Contrast that to those born into the money who seem to have spoiled not long after having air touch them.
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thats a good decription of the victims of the fork tailed doctor killer too
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Originally posted by Debonair
thats a good decription of the victims of the fork tailed doctor killer too
"don't be silly debonair. there is no such th....aggggggghhhhh!!!" - dr. 88