Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on October 12, 2006, 11:58:51 PM
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brilliant ad campaign.
MAC v. PC (http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/)
(http://images.apple.com/getamac/images/indextop20060501.jpg)
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I see a businessman and a slob. I don't think that's what Apple wants me to see, but all the same, it's what I see. To my eyes, Apple is calling its own product cheap and sloppy.
The picture is interesting because, as far as the market goes, the PC is the successful product and the Mac is the pauper. Even though i probably don't see the picture as Apple intended, it's still an accurate metaphor.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by JB88
brilliant ad campaign.
Not really, basically they're belittling the other 97% of the market. Not a great way to win business. All it appeals too is existing Mac zealots. Not a great way to grow your business.
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A slob? LOL
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I work on a Mac with OS X and I like it a lot.
My home Computer is a PC and my MAC at work blows it out of the water.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
I work on a Mac with OS X and I like it a lot.
My home Computer is a PC and my MAC at work blows it out of the water.
Macs moved to intel and their OS is not a lot different from Linux.
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http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/
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Now that MACs have the same hardware, the only thing that makes them different is the OS. Why would I give up nearly all the software I have on my PC (mainly games :)) just so I can run MAC OS? Why would I buy a MAC and then put WinXP on it?
I am a controls engineer. ALL of the software I use is for Windows. None of it is available for MAC. Therefore, all 50 or so PCs in my company and all PCs of our customers are Microsoft. When a customer isn't using Microsoft (i.e. for database servers), they have UNIX/LINUX servers.
If software companies start making apps for both MAC and WinXP, or better yet, for just MAC, and Apple sells the MAC at competitive prices, then they just might get my $. Until then, I am stuck with Windows both at work and at home.
MAC fans can scream out how great MACs are 24/7, in the mean time, the rest of the world will keep working and playing games on their PCs :)
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My home computer is a PC and my PC at work blows it out of the water.... my solution is to buy a better home PC.
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I don't know anything about computers.. we have PC's at work and I had to learn microsoft programs.
I play AH.
I don't want to learn new programs and I want to play AH.
I don't really care what mac does at this point. I have never even seen one other than in movies.
lazs
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Can you play Aces High II on a MAC?????? If not, then MAC sucks!!!!
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Originally posted by streakeagle
and Apple sells the MAC at competitive prices
Well actually they are competitive and in some cases even cheaper now, but you are right, they didnt use to be.
As for the argument on who is the best... ive given up on that a long time ago. Both have their strongpoint and are pretty much equal. If i had to choose then it all depends on what models I had to choose from.
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I have an old PowerBook G4 mac at work (+ 4 PCs), and I ordered a Mac Mini for home just about a week ago. The OSX is far superior to Windows in usability, configurability and maintainability. The Darwin BSD is a cool thing, reminds me of my (now dead) trusty old FreeBSD server.
If it wasn't for AH, I could easily see myself switching to OSX on my home computer.
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My dad really loves his G5 imac. My 12" powerbook G4 is ok but i would love to have the 17" macbook pro with dual boot but that machine is really too expencive to justify.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Can you play Aces High II on a MAC?????? If not, then MAC sucks!!!!
dunno. you can run windows on them now...skuzzy?
did any of you follow the link?
i can't believe that noone here finds those commercials hilarious.
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You can run windows on the newer intel macs and get the same performance as on a pc with similar specs so yes.. you can rin AH2 on a pac computer. No more emulating needed.
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Ironically, QT won't run properly on my machine.
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Using Parallels, you can actually run windows apps from inside Mac OS X. With boot camp, you can dual boot to Windows or Mac OS. I read a recent article that compared similar spec Intel Core Duo Macs and Dells and found that the equivalent Mac was actually slightly less expensive. It was a first, traditionally the Mac cost more.
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From the beginning, Apple has cost a premium. There usually have been satisfactory and sometimes superior alternatives for less money.
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Right, and as I said, that appears to be changing.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Right, and as I said, that appears to be changing.
Apple will never be able to compete pricewise with the "PC" until they open their hardware sales to third party vendors once again.
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Never? Gotcha.
http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33576
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Originally posted by lukster
Apple will never be able to compete pricewise with the "PC" until they open their hardware sales to third party vendors once again.
Well they already are competitive so thats not completly correct. If you are thinking about accesories then you have a point. Not all of those have drivers for OSX.
Moving to intel prolly has made sure that they have gotten cheaper and faster innards in their machines that are pretty much standard stuff and not like before when so much of the innards had to be made just for apple.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Never? Gotcha.
http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33576
Just because they beat Dell's prices on one machine doesn't mean I can't build the same cheaper. I am surprised to see them beating Dell on anything though, will take a closer look.
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I used to be right there with ya on the matter, lukster, but the times they've been a changin'.
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I suspect they have included Windows Server with the Dell product. You can save a lot of money by buying a Dell with Linux. I'm going to spec a Dell myself and give the quote.
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Since they didn't mention the proc speed I picked the lowest. Only a ROM DVD for the Dell, no RW avail for this model but it would cost less than $100 to add one.
I see they listed 3 proc speeds, will respec.
Looks like their prices are current at least on the lowest priced one. Dell is a bit cheaper than the Apple listed though.
I don't believe many buy dual xeons for a desktop which is why I first thought that was a server. I'll have to check their pricing on core 2 duo systems.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/
Now that was some funny watermelon right there:aok
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I'll tell you this...if you use the Adobe video editting products, the PC versions require a monster of a system...if you have the Mac...wow, night and day difference
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Absolutely, LePaul. I've been in the Graphic Arts business since before computers... when we switched over, it was Macs all the way. Still is... for what Nef and I do for work, the Mac cannot be beat.
Everybody else here at the Lab has to get Critical Updates almost weekly... our Macs never need it. I've used PCs and Macs equally over the years, and can honestly say that Macs have always been more stable.
You can't play AH on a Mac... that is a drawback. ;)
Mac has always had a lame marketing strategy, that's for sure. I'm not one of those "slobs" that they seem to target, and if I were not already familiar with Macs, those ads would steer me completely away.
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You can play AH on an Intel Mac.
I tried a Mac in the 8.x days, but went back to a PC because of the apps I wanted to run. OSX has some nice features, so I have both now.
I don't have to be on only one side of the fence or the other, a la Mac vs. PC. I'm on both sides.
For me, the ability to switch languages of the OS almost instantly is one of those nice features that Windows can't do. There are many other clever touches to OSX and built in features and abilities that require you to buy or find 3rd party software. Video conferences using iChat and iSight camera seem like a generation leap above anything available for PC.
As far as security, well, I don't really care if it's from a smaller market or built into the OS architecture, the end result is that there has still, to this day, never been a virus or worm for Mac. That is probably the only absolute you can say. Any thing is all about user preferences.
Cost analysis of either cannot simply be made based on hardware, you have to consider the additional cost of PC software that is already included in OSX. You don't need to buy MS Office for a Mac. With OSX and todays Apple line-up, the analogy to buying a Mercedes or buying a Chevy is appropriate.
I wouldn't post my opinion about Macs if I didn't own one. Call me strange, but I also don't give an opinion about movies I haven't seen or books I haven't read... ;)
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/
p.c. -MIDGETS?!
mac - yah. midgets!
LOLOLOLOLOL
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Originally posted by Rolex
You can play AH on an Intel Mac.
I tried a Mac in the 8.x days, but went back to a PC because of the apps I wanted to run. OSX has some nice features, so I have both now.
I don't have to be on only one side of the fence or the other, a la Mac vs. PC. I'm on both sides.
For me, the ability to switch languages of the OS almost instantly is one of those nice features that Windows can't do. There are many other clever touches to OSX and built in features and abilities that require you to buy or find 3rd party software. Video conferences using iChat and iSight camera seem like a generation leap above anything available for PC.
As far as security, well, I don't really care if it's from a smaller market or built into the OS architecture, the end result is that there has still, to this day, never been a virus or worm for Mac. That is probably the only absolute you can say. Any thing is all about user preferences.
Cost analysis of either cannot simply be made based on hardware, you have to consider the additional cost of PC software that is already included in OSX. You don't need to buy MS Office for a Mac. With OSX and todays Apple line-up, the analogy to buying a Mercedes or buying a Chevy is appropriate.
I wouldn't post my opinion about Macs if I didn't own one. Call me strange, but I also don't give an opinion about movies I haven't seen or books I haven't read... ;)
well stated rolex.
:)
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Originally posted by Rolex
to this day, never been a virus or worm for Mac. That is probably the only absolute you can say.
Urban legend...
I have used both and must say that today, even after Apple finally figured out what to do with extra mouse buttons and scroll wheel, Mac has nothing over PC. Boot Camp may boost market share for short period until users figure out that Windows run on PCs as good as on Macs if not better. ;)
Heck, in terms of OS Linux has bigger market share...
U.S. Mac Market Share
1Q 2005: 3.8%
1Q 2006: 3.6%
Worldwide Mac Market Share
1Q 2005: 2.2%
1Q 2006: 2.0%
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I mistyped something (early morning...).
I meant to say: "There are many other clever touches to OSX and built in features and abilities that don't require you to buy or find 3rd party software."
Having a small market share is not a bad thing if you have one less item available than there is demand for.
If it's an urban legend, please set me straight. Can you point me to evidence of a factory configured Apple machine ever being compromised by a virus? Thanks.
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Many, many viruses. I used to clean up WDEF and NVIR infections all the time.
Oh, you probably meant OS X. It's rare, but they happen.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5224924
http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/02/macosxleap.html
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/osx.leap.a.html
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Originally posted by Rolex
If it's an urban legend, please set me straight. Can you point me to evidence of a factory configured Apple machine ever being compromised by a virus? Thanks.
Ever heard of OSX/Leap and such?
Anyways, if it would be so secure there would be no need for sites like
http://www.securemac.com/
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Can you play Aces High II on a MAC?????? If not, then MAC sucks!!!!
I do.
Regards,
hap
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Urban legend...
I have used both and must say that today, even after Apple finally figured out what to do with extra mouse buttons and scroll wheel, Mac has nothing over PC. Boot Camp may boost market share for short period until users figure out that Windows run on PCs as good as on Macs if not better. ;)
Heck, in terms of OS Linux has bigger market share...
U.S. Mac Market Share
1Q 2005: 3.8%
1Q 2006: 3.6%
Worldwide Mac Market Share
1Q 2005: 2.2%
1Q 2006: 2.0%
I read on a Mac Owners site, Mac has a slightly larger market share in the computer world than Mercedes or BMW has in the auto world. Don't know if it's true. I read it just the other day.
hap
p.s. I really love my iMac. Runs AH wonderfully. I'm very happy. I bought it about a month ago. PC is in the closet.
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Well, there it is. The first Mac OSX virus. Thanks for the info.
Really runs great, Hap? No problems now?
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Originally posted by Rolex
I mistyped something (early morning...).
I meant to say: "There are many other clever touches to OSX and built in features and abilities that don't require you to buy or find 3rd party software."
Having a small market share is not a bad thing if you have one less item available than there is demand for.
If it's an urban legend, please set me straight. Can you point me to evidence of a factory configured Apple machine ever being compromised by a virus? Thanks.
Actually theres quite a few things you HAVE to buy third party, IPSEC VPN clients and a Novelll client just of the top of my head (being a networking guy).
OS X is just a pretty gui on top of BSD. Because Apple control the patch releases it tends to be somewhat behind in security and flaw patches compared to linux and other unix systems. Because of this it is more susceptible to attacks that have been fixed elsewhere. IIRC the Zone-h results for 2005 showed OS X had a higher proportion of attacks than OS X had market share.
Have a look here: http://www.zone-h.org/index.php?option=com_attacks&Itemid=43&filter=1
As for virus's and worm's, theres been those. Theres also been a lot of undocumented attacks which have not been in a 'attack-for-dummys' form like we see on PC's. These attacks have been used to comprimise Macs. See the recent wireless issues as a good example.
And last but not least, the built in browser blows chunks. If you think IE is bad, you ain't seen nothing til you seen Safari. Its not RFC compliant. I laugh when some mac user whines to me about a website not loading - and I tell them to try firefox and it works perfectly.
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“Trojans, viruses, incompatibilities I feel. Something terrible has happened. Young Vulcan is in pain. Terrible pain”
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/30/007_yoda~Yoda-Posters.jpg)
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Hell, the first distro virus I ran into were on macs.
When Macs were compelled to go from the (absolutely excellent) Microsoft Word 5.1 to Word 6.0, a suite of Macro viruses fallowed. I ran into entire labs that were infected with mac word 6.0 viruses.
Right now, the Mac "no virus" thing is a lot of media hype: the viruses/worms out there for PCs right now serve a purpose: to create huge zombie botnets that can be involved in wholesale crime like Identity theft or DDoS extortion. Obviously, macs don't qualify for much interest there.
But, if you're talking targeted thievery, well, there's no reason for anyone to notice a machine's actually infected....
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Instead of showing the square guy in a suit, they should have used a South Park WoW type.
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I've been a PC user for the last few years, passing by mac's in places like Comp USA and other retail stores...thinking about what I've heard from other PC users, and from media. Thought about trying one, then passing it off as a random thought, and going on my way.
But then, I think about the problems I had on my first machine running Windows Me, And I wonder If Apple could have made as much a mess of things.
Now I hear Microsoft wants to release Vista, which has a built in function that shuts your computer down if it detects a "pirated" program. Sounds like Vista won't run at all, in that case.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
HHAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR
lol
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Originally posted by Nilsen
“Trojans, viruses, incompatibilities I feel. Something terrible has happened. Young Vulcan is in pain. Terrible pain”
Honestly nilsen, 99.9% of Mac users haven't got a friggin clue. They're all 'Macs don't get virus's haha we' so superior'.
Last week one of our tard mac users complains to me hes being asked to authenticate to our firewall. He wasn't, it was our SSL-VPN over wireless. We use an open wireless network secured by SSL. So his mac had decided to attach itself to this network without asking. If had been a nasty person and put a web server up with nasty mac exploits he would've been screwed.
Mac users are fine as long as they're on someone elses network.
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You certainly don't want to get too close to them. You might catch some of that superio... oops, too late. ;)
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Like I said... I don't know anything about macs or much about computers in general but..... I won't buy one at this point.
they sound ok but I don't need a dual boot or a computer that can imitate the one I am using now... I don't know if the prices are coming down but I know there are hundreds of places I can buy a PC for cheap and people know how to fix em.
I am not for swimming against the stream at this point cause the PC works fine for me and there is less to think about.. I am probly the average computer owner.... not some graphics artist... you would think that graphic artists are half the planet the way mac touts their supperiority to these people.
I don't want to learn a new operating system. I don't want to have to buy a certain type of hardware or software.
lazs
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macs pwn
u pc guys r all teh old fat foureyed 'tards in poorly tailored cheap siuts
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Originally posted by Rolex
You certainly don't want to get too close to them. You might catch some of that superio... oops, too late. ;)
As opposed to catching a decent dose of ignorance? Right rolex?
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Originally posted by Rolex
You can play AH on an Intel Mac.
I tried a Mac in the 8.x days, but went back to a PC because of the apps I wanted to run. OSX has some nice features, so I have both now.
I don't have to be on only one side of the fence or the other, a la Mac vs. PC. I'm on both sides.
For me, the ability to switch languages of the OS almost instantly is one of those nice features that Windows can't do. There are many other clever touches to OSX and built in features and abilities that require you to buy or find 3rd party software. Video conferences using iChat and iSight camera seem like a generation leap above anything available for PC.
As far as security, well, I don't really care if it's from a smaller market or built into the OS architecture, the end result is that there has still, to this day, never been a virus or worm for Mac. That is probably the only absolute you can say. Any thing is all about user preferences.
Cost analysis of either cannot simply be made based on hardware, you have to consider the additional cost of PC software that is already included in OSX. You don't need to buy MS Office for a Mac. With OSX and todays Apple line-up, the analogy to buying a Mercedes or buying a Chevy is appropriate.
I wouldn't post my opinion about Macs if I didn't own one. Call me strange, but I also don't give an opinion about movies I haven't seen or books I haven't read... ;)
HI bud:)
You are not correct. http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/02/macosxleap.html
If macs were as popular as Intel/ibm then they would be inundated with worms, trojans and virus................
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Originally posted by Debonair
macs pwn
Why? Because it comes with Starbucks E-coupons?
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Been doing some reading about this. I'm not an expert on computer security, or computers in general - it's not my line of work.
But, looks to me like there still hasn't been a virus for OSX. A virus is something that replicates and spreads from infected machines, correct? This was a proof-of-concept worm, as I understand it. The user was socially engineered to download the malformed image file via iChat and the file did nothing. It didn't delete files or do anything. The "infection" rate was listed in the range of "0-49." The vulnerability was patched.
I have no illusions that any system is impervious. However, the statistical chance of virus infection to a typical consumer OSX user remains at 0 today. Maybe that will change tomorrow.
Also, hacking the html of a website hosted on an OSX machine is not the same as OS.
It's still just an OS, not a social or political belief system that should cause someone to rise up in contempt for those who choose it.
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All joking aside, out of the box security on OS X is dramatically better than any currently shipping incarnation of Windows.
Four letters:
SUDO
By default, root access is disabled for a user. If you want to do something that requires higher access, you use sudo to create a 'security session' so that x can do y and whatnot. You authenticate on a per-use basis instead of a per user basis.
Result? People aren't browsing the web as administrators with with leaky Internet Explorer sessions begging malsites to use ActiveX to move in.
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Yes Rolex, Mac security is 'security through obscurity' more than security by design although the base (unix) is better than windows for example.
15 years ago, Macs used to be way better than IBM compatibles. They had more power, superb GUI and set of powerful applications, reason why small businesses mainly publishing and print shops went with it.
Today, Mac has nothing over other platforms. The only thing that keeps Mac usage alive are all the little shops which won't or can't switch over ($$$), small group of fanatical yuppy followers, teen girls who exchanged barbie dolls for iMacs and small groups of people who fall for Apple superb marketing. More of a fashion statement than anything else.
Once Mac market share falls under critical percentage in small and mid size graphic shops (Windows is gaining there ever so slowly) and perhaps for that reason Adobe drops Mac support altogether, Mac will die.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Been doing some reading about this. I'm not an expert on computer security, or computers in general - it's not my line of work.
But, looks to me like there still hasn't been a virus for OSX. A virus is something that replicates and spreads from infected machines, correct? This was a proof-of-concept worm, as I understand it. The user was socially engineered to download the malformed image file via iChat and the file did nothing. It didn't delete files or do anything. The "infection" rate was listed in the range of "0-49." The vulnerability was patched.
I have no illusions that any system is impervious. However, the statistical chance of virus infection to a typical consumer OSX user remains at 0 today. Maybe that will change tomorrow.
Also, hacking the html of a website hosted on an OSX machine is not the same as OS.
It's still just an OS, not a social or political belief system that should cause someone to rise up in contempt for those who choose it.
Once again you show signs of listening to Mac propaganda.
First, the most successful PC virus's have also required user interaction. The most prolific virus's out there right now as we speak are email borne virus's that require user interaction.
Second, the next range of virus's came via web sites or IM (usually redirecting to a website). Over the last year there has been a lot of exploits found in both OS X and Safari that could be used against a Mac user. Just like the recent wireless issues discovered.
If you read some security whitepapers, especially those that cover white/black hat conferences you soon see that its fairly easy to comprimise a consumer OS X system.
I've had first had experience with Mac's doing odd things, generating traffic they shouldn't be. Doing stuff that would indicate they've been comprimised *including sending non-user-generated outbound smtp traffic* (oh look zombie-bot).
What is the users reaction? "Its a Mac we don't get virus's".
Thats why I have so much contempt for Mac's, their users are not only smug, but in general they're fairly ignorant on the subjects they're talking about.
Just recently I had another ***tard Mac user running Parallels on their system introduce a PC virus into our network. Luckily we have our network segmented with the Mac users in their own VLAN with IPS/GAV running over their traffic that goes into other parts of the network. Thus the virus was isolated to the ***tard segment.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Four letters:
SUDO
By default, root access is disabled for a user. If you want to do something that requires higher access, you use sudo to create a 'security session' so that x can do y and whatnot. You authenticate on a per-use basis instead of a per user basis.
Result? People aren't browsing the web as administrators with with leaky Internet Explorer sessions begging malsites to use ActiveX to move in.
Yeah, and unless all your precious data is owned by root, your files can still get pwnd.
Or worse yet, security deamon vulnerability for example:
Impact: Malicious users may grant themselves rights to manipulate arbitrary files or perform other privileged actions.
Description: Authorization Services allows unprivileged users to grant certain rights that should be restricted to administrators, which may lead to privilege escalation. This update addresses the issue by adding restrictions to which rights unprivileged users can grant themselves.
And there are hunderds of examples.
The only thing which makes Mac relatively safe is rarity.
Same thing Linux fans were preaching long time ago, now, after thousands and thousands boxes got rooted, they're way more humble...
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Personally I like my Texas Insturments desktop calculator for all kinds of nifty things. I use a PC, but have nothing against the Mac or someone wanting to use one.
Should I buy a Ford or a Chevy????? lemme see....................