Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: ScorpCH on October 15, 2006, 02:22:40 AM
-
i have flown almost every plane in the MA; ponies, la's, spits, 109s, 190's and the works but out of all the 38 seems to be my favorite (thanks to some training from delirium). the guns are nose mounted which eliminates the need for convergence. its not the greatest diver but if you no how to prevent it you can really get some speed behind her. plus if you get the flaps out, little trim, and work the throttle you can turn with a spit. with dual engines its climbs like a rocket. when it comes down to it, the only disadvantage is her big arse making a big target! :D
when i get on someone's 6, most of the time in a 38 i can stay on their 6, but when someone gets on my 6 i cant shake em in a 38 for some reason, not unless i do nothing but turn the enemy which is not smart against a spit, hurry, a6m ect...
some of you more expereince 38 pilots out there might have some better evasive manuvers and i was just wondering if maybe you could share some with me.
-
dont let them on your 6 in the first place, best evasive maneuver in the book! :D
seriously, work on your SA, never let them get nehind you, and keep an energy advantage so that you can climb away or go vertical more easily:aok
-
Originally posted by ScorpCH
i have flown almost every plane in the MA; ponies, la's, spits, 109s, 190's and the works but out of all the 38 seems to be my favorite (thanks to some training from delirium). the guns are nose mounted which eliminates the need for convergence. its not the greatest diver but if you no how to prevent it you can really get some speed behind her. plus if you get the flaps out, little trim, and work the throttle you can turn with a spit. with dual engines its climbs like a rocket. when it comes down to it, the only disadvantage is her big arse making a big target! :D
when i get on someone's 6, most of the time in a 38 i can stay on their 6, but when someone gets on my 6 i cant shake em in a 38 for some reason, not unless i do nothing but turn the enemy which is not smart against a spit, hurry, a6m ect...
some of you more expereince 38 pilots out there might have some better evasive manuvers and i was just wondering if maybe you could share some with me.
I suggest you hit the Training Arena and get with Widewing. Also, look in the training forums and you'll find films by Murdr and Ack Ack on flying the P-38. You may have to use the search function in the Training forum to find them as they may not be on the front page. You need to use the vertical plane in the P-38, and not do horizontal turns. Also you need to make sure you use your opponent's torque against him when you do turn, so that the torque of his engine causes him to stall first. When I'm in a position to use an advantage in climb (called the "rope") I almost always climb in a right turn and watch for the other guy to start wobbling.
In the arenas, look for some of the guys who fly the P-38, like CorkyJr. He flies the G model a lot and knows how to fight with it really well. the guys in the 475th (if they're still active), the 479th, and the 80th FS are good P-38 pilots, and those are mostly P-38 squads.
-
Originally posted by ScorpCH
when i get on someone's 6, most of the time in a 38 i can stay on their 6, but when someone gets on my 6 i cant shake em in a 38 for some reason, not unless i do nothing but turn the enemy which is not smart against a spit, hurry, a6m ect...
some of you more expereince 38 pilots out there might have some better evasive manuvers and i was just wondering if maybe you could share some with me.
Biggles said it; don't let them get on your six...
It's about 10x easier to stay on someone's six than it is to shake them off.
The greatest skill a pilot can develop is good Situational Awareness. The second greatest skill a pilot can develop is mastering the dynamics of the merge.
First, you have to recognize the threat, and secondly, you have to place yourself in a position to minimize the threat, or better yet, neutralize the threat. Recognizing the threat after the enemy is already on your tail is far too late.
It's not possible to spell-out how to evade an enemy that is camped on your six. This is learned by experience. You have to be well versed on what your aircraft is capable of, and you must know what the enemy fighter is capable of. You need to recognize your relative E states. Ultimately, you have to force the attacker into making a mistake (overshoot, blackout or some other avoidable error).
My suggestion is this: When you detect someone closing from behind or maneuvering for your six, turn into him. Don't go for an HO and don't give him that opportunity. This is where having good merge skills comes into play.
Come to the TA and look for a Trainer on the roster. If none are online at the time, send an email to trainers@flyaceshigh.com and ask to set up a practice/training time.
Beyond the above, I suggest a lot of practice. Nothing can replace experience. Record films of your flights and review them from both inside and outside the plane. Remember that you can learn from every fight, win or lose... Except maybe my son-in-law, who sullies my name everytime I let him fly in the MA when he visits ;).
My regards,
Widewing
-
My fav is a slow scisors to get them in real close and then snap it into a quick stall-spin. 2 or 3 revolutions and they usually overshoot and zoom up and away, just recover and dive out.
Occasionally they'll dive away (depending on the alt you start at), puts you in a good position to follow if they do.
Might take a few hits, but if you're hauling it around quick enough, you can usually get out of it with just a couple of holes and no real damage.
-
Big barrel rolls, with rudder slipping and a ton of aileron/elevator use.. You want to create as much drag as possible, to hopefully get the guy to overshoot. Don't forget the flaps.:D
When Im avoiding a shot, my plane is stalling the majority of the time. The 38 has a real nice snap-like stall that is quite easy to recover from.:D
Just put time into it, get ready to die a lot. Thats the best way to learn whatever suits your style.
-
hit the silk?
-
thanks so much everyone, i knew i could count on the die hard 38 pilots out there. i emailed the trainers for a little 1v1 and hopefuly that will help cause i am confused on the whole barrel roll thing. i had a f4u1 in the mid war arena today that got on my 6 when i was heavy for a cv and was forced to drop my ords. i when into a dive until he was 600 out then cut throttle and when almost vert. then i rolled over and nosed down again, and repeated. guess it was like a vertical scissors, but what ever you call it it made him bleed his e and he nosed down and ran and i persued. after a small series of head on deflection shot from him i managed to kill his engine on one of the passes. with him dead stick i kicked on the wep and got outta there instead of gunning him down. was a great fight, specialy since he was trash talkin on 200. definatly put a smile on my face :D
-
Originally posted by Lazerr
Big barrel rolls, with rudder slipping and a ton of aileron/elevator use.. You want to create as much drag as possible, to hopefully get the guy to overshoot. Don't forget the flaps.:D
When Im avoiding a shot, my plane is stalling the majority of the time. The 38 has a real nice snap-like stall that is quite easy to recover from.:D
Just put time into it, get ready to die a lot. Thats the best way to learn whatever suits your style.
Do you have rudder function mapped to your uber-mouse?
;)
-
:lol
-
My recommendation is the slow speed scissors. If you don't know what I mean, download this film.
[Link] (http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/josh/P-38%20Stall%20Fight,%20Maximum%20Power.ahf)
Originally posted by Benny Moore
never throttle back in combat unless you are going over four hundred miles per hour and cannot pull out of your dive before hitting the ground. If you need to bleed speed, simply pull back on the yoke. This is a much more efficient way of ridding yourself of excess speed. I never, ever throttle down in combat unless I am fully compressing. Even in my stall fights - especially in my stall fights - I have as much power as I can muster, and to my ears the sound of my war emergency power failing is the knell of doom.
-
I find that if I disperse my plane parts as far as possible, they can't follow all of me down to the ground. With luck they'll chase the wing parts while the cockpit pod falls safely to earth with me in it.
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
I find that if I disperse my plane parts as far as possible, they can't follow all of me down to the ground. With luck they'll chase the wing parts while the cockpit pod falls safely to earth with me in it.
:)
-
lol.. not enough buttons on ze mouse, use keyboard for flaps/rudder/guns.
Im good with both hands...:aok
-
The best defensive on the 38 is the E-burning rolling sciscors.
The only planes that can follow you on it is the high end turn and burn planes (n1k, zeros,early war planes).
I have a video of it in AH1 but the film viewer dont work with it no more :(
-
yeah i tried that and it works great especialy in a 109f4
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
Originally posted by Benny Moore
never throttle back in combat unless you are going over four hundred miles per hour and cannot pull out of your dive before hitting the ground. If you need to bleed speed, simply pull back on the yoke. This is a much more efficient way of ridding yourself of excess speed. I never, ever throttle down in combat unless I am fully compressing. Even in my stall fights - especially in my stall fights - I have as much power as I can muster, and to my ears the sound of my war emergency power failing is the knell of doom.
Actually, throttle control is just as important in the P-38 as flap management. The best way to control your speed in the P-38 in AH is to cut throttle and add some side slip by using the rudders to "skid" the plane. Those two big rudders act like wonderful dive brakes, especially in a dive. That's how the dedicated P-38 drivers can get their Lightnings to hit 500mph in a dive and retain control. It is also a good way to keep yourself below the compressability threshold if you dive from high altitude. YMMV of course.
ack-ack
-
ack ack i was wondering once my comp got fixed if you would be kind enough to go into the ta and teach me a bit on the 38
-
scorp, you did get my reply didnt you? Had not herd back from ya.
-
no i guess not murdr what was it again
-
Must have gotten lost in the ether....My reply last week to your email to trainers@flyaceshigh.com should be in your PM box now.
-
""""""I never, ever throttle down in combat unless I am fully compressing. Even in my stall fights - especially in my stall fights - I have as much power as I can muster, and to my ears the sound of my war emergency power failing is the knell of doom."""""""
i never throttled down either in a 38......unless i was on final.......
then i went to TA and flew with iceman24...him in a 109 of some version, me in a 38J.....intentions weree to help me figure out why i die every time i fight one of them.....or any of the other little wiggly planes. well, he helped me a lot!!(thanks dude) as we merged, and i did manage to get on his six, he started coaching me through throttle managment. i was able to very easily turn with him by chopping the throttle quite often....sometimes i had to bring it to idle.....but turning left or right, i was inside him, as loing as i kept my nose up a bit, and worked throttle and flaps........he tried looping, and the same result......when going up, just as the nose was passing the verticle plane, with the canopy facing down, i chopped the throttles, and she just fell right over.....INSIDE of him again. now i really suck in the 38...or ANY fighter for that matter, but then i'm still somewhat new in here, so i'm not saying all or any i do is right......but it did feel good to be able to keep one of those things IN FRONT of me even if it was only TA.
have fun all
-
yeah i have done that a couple of time on high end fighters like niki and ponies in the g models with great success.
-
Heya Scorp.
Another good defensive move that I've been using to great success lately is the climbing spiral. Assuming I have enough time and am not in a huge furball I can get just about any single engine fighter with this.
Since we have two engines we don't have a problem with torque pulling us one way compared to the other. So when they get on your tail go into a climbing turn and hold it. You want to be just on the edge of stalling yourself. Pull it tight enough that you're gaining altitude without slowing down too much.
Trick is to pull in the opposite direction of thier torque. I havn't figured out all of the planes but in general, the American planes pull to th eleft, and the germans to the right. That's probably not a hard and fast rule so practice.
Anyway after a while you'll notice them really having to pull hard on the stick to try and get a shot off. Look back over your shoulder you'll start to see them wobbling before or after they take a shot, or they'll just stall out completely and will fall out of the sky behind you. If they fall roll over and drop in behind them. Shoot them while they're trying to recover.
If they're wobbly but hanging in there, you can still force the issue. To stay with you they'll be pretty much out of E and you can roll them. Roll over right after they miss a shot, and go into a barrel roll. If they follow you they'll stall, if they don't you'll drop in on top of them.
Look me up in the training room if you want ot practice it sometime. I'm flying under the name Kwuest now.
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
I find that if I disperse my plane parts as far as possible, they can't follow all of me down to the ground. With luck they'll chase the wing parts while the cockpit pod falls safely to earth with me in it.
The old right boom on the left ,left boom on the right trick ?