Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rolex on October 21, 2006, 03:57:12 AM
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(http://hells-angels.us/ah/cd.jpg)
Anyone want to take a guess why this CD costs $800?
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It has Combat Tour on it?:p
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Is it worth 800$ though?
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Originally posted by Rolex
(http://hells-angels.us/ah/cd.jpg)
Anyone want to take a guess why this CD costs $800?
its from the future and it is owned by opec?
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it's an autographed copy of my Musical Blasphemy CD.
My main concern is how did you sneak it out of my underpants without my knowing it??:huh
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has all the porn ever made on it?
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It has the video of Pam Anderson/Lyndsey Lohan/Hillary Duff/And myself on it?
:D
:aok
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Because its a Microsoft product?
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
It has the video of Pam Anderson/Lyndsey Lohan/Hillary Duff/And myself on it?
That actually lowers the value. Sorry to be the one to tell you :(
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Four VBS1 modules on a dvd ?
The entire VBS1 dvd costs $1300.
http://virtualbattlespace.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=46&osCsid=d1385ff3e9b472fb64817e20c8ed929d
So, who here paid $1300 for a pc game ?
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Im going to have to say that it is from the future, and contains information about terminators
(http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/9208/infogramesterminatorskulloa1.jpg)
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Its the smallest CD in the world yet can contain the same amount of information as a normal CD
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I'm with the Lan man on this one.
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I know, I know. It says property of the U.S Govt on it.
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because the person who made/owns it said "this here cd is gon' be werf $800 bucks!"
I win again! damn it feel good to be a gangsta! can you feel that?! I have exorcised the demons!!! woowooo!
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it contains the instructions to silence megadud, thereby saving all of humanity as we know it?
i'll take it. 800 is a steal.
:cool:
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Originally posted by Suave
Four VBS1 modules on a dvd ?
The entire VBS1 dvd costs $1300.
http://virtualbattlespace.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=46&osCsid=d1385ff3e9b472fb64817e20c8ed929d
So, who here paid $1300 for a pc game ?
I'll bet the government buys em for $130,000, plus tax.
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Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope...
It's an audio cd, but the music isn't what's special. It's the quality of the sound. It's a quantum leap.
Without going into a deep explanation of how CDs and CD players work, suffice it to say that they really are a marvel of exacting manufacturing tolerances at the micron level, particularly error correction.
This CD is made from solid glass, will last for generations without dregradation and is not subject to surface material degradation and reading error problems that present imperfection of audio CD sound that come with multilayer, plastic CDs.
Standard CDs are made of different layers of material and are subject to warping and surface degradation from exposure to heat and UV. CDs don't last forever, contrary to popular belief. Data readability can start to degrade after 5 years, depending on the quality of the blank CD.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope...
It's an audio cd, but the music isn't what's special. It's the quality of the sound. It's a quantum leap.
Without going into a deep explanation of how CDs and CD players work, suffice it to say that they really are a marvel of exacting manufacturing tolerances at the micron level, particularly error correction.
This CD is made from solid glass, will last for generations without dregradation and is not subject to surface material degradation and reading error problems that present imperfection of audio CD sound that come with multilayer, plastic CDs.
Standard CDs are made of different layers of material and are subject to warping and surface degradation from exposure to heat and UV. CDs don't last forever, contrary to popular belief. Data readability can start to degrade after 5 years, depending on the quality of the blank CD.
so whats on it?
:confused:
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Originally posted by JB88
so whats on it?
:confused:
The best of Yoko Ono:)
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A recording of Johann Sebastian Bach's "Air on G String" that's closer to live sound than anything that has ever existed - and will remain that way forever.
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i've only got 13 dollars and 42 cents on me.
will you take a check?
:cool:
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Originally posted by Rolex
A recording of Johann Sebastian Bach's "Air on G String" that's closer to live sound than anything that has ever existed - and will remain that way forever.
I would not pay 800 for some bach garbage, give me some beethoven biotch or some michael bolton. A michael bolton CD that sounds great forever is priceless.
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Originally posted by JB88
so whats on it?
:confused:
The new Evanescence album, "The Open Door" :)
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Originally posted by Rolex
A recording of Johann Sebastian Bach's "Air on G String" that's closer to live sound than anything that has ever existed - and will remain that way forever.
Who?:confused:
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Lemme guess, you need to have special 'monster brand' power cables on your stereo.
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Originally posted by dmf
Who?:confused:
More commonly just simply referred to as "Bach"
Air in the G string (http://search.aol.com/aolcom/redir?src=audio_search&requestId=d79f1be483e1f730&clickedItemRank=7&userQuery=Johann+Sebastian+Bach+air+on+G+string&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marischen.com%2Faudio%2FWedding%2F45.mp3)
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Originally posted by Rolex
"Air on G String"
It's porn guys. at least it sounds like straight porn.
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Originally posted by Golfer
It's porn guys. at least it sounds like straight porn.
:rofl
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Kenny G is on it. Playing the longest note.
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never mind
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Originally posted by Rolex
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope...
It's an audio cd, but the music isn't what's special. It's the quality of the sound. It's a quantum leap.
Without going into a deep explanation of how CDs and CD players work, suffice it to say that they really are a marvel of exacting manufacturing tolerances at the micron level, particularly error correction.
This CD is made from solid glass, will last for generations without dregradation and is not subject to surface material degradation and reading error problems that present imperfection of audio CD sound that come with multilayer, plastic CDs.
Standard CDs are made of different layers of material and are subject to warping and surface degradation from exposure to heat and UV. CDs don't last forever, contrary to popular belief. Data readability can start to degrade after 5 years, depending on the quality of the blank CD.
Is the CD's only merit that it is made of glass, or was it recorded at a different sampling rate other than 44.1?
Glass can be scratched very easily. A standard CD recording is only 44.1 kHz and only 16 bits. 16 bits is not good for dynamic range.
There is no way that CD is worth $800.00 and there is no way that it's sound is better than a high bit, high kHz recording on a hard drive or digital tape recording.
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Thank Nuke we all here have the "Word of Nuke" coming down from heaven to explain the physics of Nuke's World, i.e., glass can be scratched very easily...
Nuke, if you had any experience in, or understood the science of materials and the technology of CD manufacturing and particularly players, you would know that the semi-clear acrylic layer now used affects reflectivity of the laser, causing...
Never mind. A thimble can't hold a liter of knowledge.
You're right. Have a nice day.
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If that CD were perfect physically, but was still "dumbed down" as it was mastered into a 44.1 kHz, 16 bit representation of the original recording, then I can't see how it would be worth $800.00. No way anyone that knows anything about digital recording would buy it.
It's still just a 16 bit digital recording that is lower quality than the master recording it was made from.
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Rolex, I squelched byebye the first day he posted here... He hasn't ever contributed anything, and every time I get curious about his posts they turn out to be the same old derogatory nonsense he's spouting here.
He's one of a mere handful of people who post here that you can plonk and never worry about missing something insightful. It's a shade account used for nothing but fairly mean and nasty trolls. I thought skuzzy would have kicked him a month ago because pretty much his first 10 posts were 10 consecutive personal attacks, but I guess he hasn't crossed skuzzy's or any of the MPs line. I thought his first entire day's worth of posts would get scrubbed because he never posts anything but nasty comments. Even the one "positive" thread he started about photography was simply a follow-up of his nasty postings in two previous threads on photography.
Plonk him and don't worry about it. He's not worth a milisecond of your time.
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Rolex: A super incredible glass master that costs $800 is kinda like a new type of horse saddle. It's neat, but I'll just use a car that's cheaper and faster.
Digital storage on HDs, Flash memory, etc can contain the exact same digital information without any risk of 'warpage' either that would affect playback. If you're talking about long term archival, meh... Once it's digital and part of a living storage (eg, not tapes), moving it from medium to medium is cake.
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By the way, all CDs are mastered from glass masters. Even microscopic scratches can effect the sound quality.
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Yup, you're spot on, eagl.
Also agree with you, Chair. The concept was the designer wanted to keep things for his grandchildren to hear. He'll have to store a player to read it too, since CD players won't likely be around then ;) They still plan on commercializing it to reduce costs, but I think it's destined to be novelty forever.
Sony and Philips don't want CDs to go away for a long time. Sony makes over $300 million/year just on IPR for the CD. A five-person office counting and recording deposits. Any idea how much work it takes to make $300 million in traditional manufacturing? What a business. :)
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Rolex, I was asking you legitimate questions. You didn't post anything about the CD other than it was made of glass and:
1. It's sound quality was a quantum leap
2. It would not be subject to surface degregation
3. It would last for generations
4. It contained music that sounded as close to live as possible and would last forever.
All I was pointing out was that unless the CD was not just a standard 44.1 kHz, 16 bit recording, then it's sound quality could never be a quantum leap.
And being made of glass, how could it not be subject to scratches?
If you take my post as an insult or as being mean, so be it.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
I'll bet the government buys em for $130,000, plus tax.
You'd bet wrong xmarine.
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Just like any other CD it's priced that way because RIAA needs the profit.
Which is the only reason why we've been paying $20 for $5 net value product for the past 15 years.
And as much as I hate to say it, Byebye has a point - if it's 16-bit PCM it will sound exactly the same with a common cd.
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Yep. Cassette tapes are actually more expensive to make, yet compact disks and dvds are more expensive.
The entertainment industry has reaped the benefits of recent technological progress, certainly not the consumer.
The music industry has gone downhill much since the advent of the CD. That's largely because the music industry is now owned not by people who like music. But by corporations who have a vested interest in media, like sony for example.
Remember rock bands?
I mean bands that weren't manufactured for radio or mtv ?
Heck it wasn't long after the CD came out, the early 90s, a lot of good, new and innovative electronic music could only be found on vinyl records at local private owned record stores (something that doesn't exist anymore).
The new music industry wasn't interested in improved music. Much like walmart now controlls the manufacturing sector. The new music industry thought it more profitable to decide what the consumer wants.
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Originally posted by Rolex
This CD is made from solid glass, will last for generations
Even if I throw it against the wall like I do my el-cheapo cds?
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Originally posted by eagl
Rolex, I squelched byebye the first day he posted here... He hasn't ever contributed anything, and every time I get curious about his posts they turn out to be the same old derogatory nonsense he's spouting here.
I'm not the one spouting nonsense. I actually know what Im talking about.
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Rolex, I'm so sorry that I do not understand the manufacturing requirments needed to create that glass CD. I guess I am stupid or something.
Can you explain to a stupid guy like me how that glass CD is a quantum leap in sound quality? And, why is it more durable than a plastic CD?
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It's not a quantum leap in anything, Rolex was dramatically overstating the benefits with the enthusiastic disregard of science that only a dedicated audiophile can bring to a discussion.
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Air on a G String is the Bach equivalent to porn music...well sex music anyway.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Yup, you're spot on, eagl.
Also agree with you, Chair. The concept was the designer wanted to keep things for his grandchildren to hear. He'll have to store a player to read it too, since CD players won't likely be around then ;)
So why would he try to store things on a glass cd that can only be played on a CD player? Do your grandchildren like to listen to old 75 rpm records?
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The Compact Disc format is NOT the "great medium" that folks strive for. Vinyl is still the best.
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Audio Mastering facilities make these as well - in a slightly cheaper form - Glass Masters. I have a $500 Glass Master of a CD that I produced last year. You basically pay for a 'die' that is used to create additional duplication runs. Too bad it needs to be remastered lol.
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Originally posted by ByeBye
I'm not the one spouting nonsense. I actually know what Im talking about.
You were half correct - do you actually work in the recording industry since you know what you're talkin about?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
It's not a quantum leap in anything, Rolex was dramatically overstating the benefits with the enthusiastic disregard of science that only a dedicated audiophile can bring to a discussion.
Haha... :)
I'm not a dedicted audiophile. I didn't make it or have any financial interest in it. I thought it was a novelty and not worth the effort put into it.
The science has nothing to do with format. CD players have error correction because CDs have errors and reading errors are common. If there were no errors, there would be no need for error correction. It is not a perfect media and reading errors occur from degradation of the non-transparent acrylic layer.
The developers claim that after ten years of development, they are able to produce a structure of glass and a data impression technique that does not have reading errors, does not have the acrylic degradation from UV, humidity, heat, scratches, disc deformation, warping, etc., and it is the best quality portable media today.
If you don't think it so, then fine. I don't care. You are directing your drama at the messenger.
Oh, and by-the-way... since being in an anal retentive mood is becoming fashionable here, a quantum leap is simply moving to another level, literally and figuratively. Going from commonplace errors to no reading errors by a properly functioning player is moving to another level of consistency.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
The Compact Disc format is NOT the "great medium" that folks strive for. Vinyl is still the best.
Yup that is true. A new vinyl on a good turntable gives better and less digital sound. I read somewere a week ago that they are selling more and more vinyl again. Looks like it may do a small comeback outside the nightclubs.
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Electro and most rap genres have always stuck to vinyl, as far as I can remember.
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Originally posted by Rolex
A recording of Johann Sebastian Bach's "Air on G String" that's closer to live sound than anything that has ever existed - and will remain that way forever.
That's a big statement. The master is better than the glass CD. I doubt a glass CD will last forever.
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Especially if you have kids that like to play frisbee
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Originally posted by Rolex
Haha... :)
I'm not a dedicted audiophile. I didn't make it or have any financial interest in it. I thought it was a novelty and not worth the effort put into it.
The science has nothing to do with format. CD players have error correction because CDs have errors and reading errors are common. If there were no errors, there would be no need for error correction. It is not a perfect media and reading errors occur from degradation of the non-transparent acrylic layer.
The developers claim that after ten years of development, they are able to produce a structure of glass and a data impression technique that does not have reading errors, does not have the acrylic degradation from UV, humidity, heat, scratches, disc deformation, warping, etc., and it is the best quality portable media today.
If you don't think it so, then fine. I don't care. You are directing your drama at the messenger.
Oh, and by-the-way... since being in an anal retentive mood is becoming fashionable here, a quantum leap is simply moving to another level, literally and figuratively. Going from commonplace errors to no reading errors by a properly functioning player is moving to another level of consistency.
Sorry rolex... this is out there with buying bridges and real estate in florida.
Digital is digital is digital. The sample rate is the same. CD's are fairly low density digital media as well, so errors are not that common unless you scratch the hell outta them.
Have these guys even heard of flash media? And who the heck still uses CD's anyway!
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Originally posted by Vulcan
And who the heck still uses CD's anyway!
I do.. they are shiny!
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Rolex, i'm not trying to bust you bubble, but..
The CD will not sound better than a regular (fresh) one with the same data on it.
Its a *digital* copy. It may not degrade as quickly as a plastic CD, but you'd be better off just saving the content on a harddisk and make a CD copy every now and then.
I've heard of people preferring single-mode optical fiber over multimode to transport digital data in their sound systems to "reduce jitter".
I also know people who cool down the CD because it "will make them sound better" because the reflective qualities supposedly are better at low temp.
It's totally wrong, but that doesnt stop their zealotry ;)
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Originally posted by Rolex
Thank Nuke we all here have the "Word of Nuke" coming down from heaven to explain the physics of Nuke's World, i.e., glass can be scratched very easily...
Nuke, if you had any experience in, or understood the science of materials and the technology of CD manufacturing and particularly players, you would know that the semi-clear acrylic layer now used affects reflectivity of the laser, causing...
Never mind. A thimble can't hold a liter of knowledge.
You're right. Have a nice day.
Okay, I accept your personal attack. Now, would you like to argue over some facts about CD's and digital media?
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Originally posted by ByeBye
The master is better than the glass CD.
Originally posted by ByeBye
By the way, all CDs are mastered from glass masters.
tick, tick, tick...
I'll bet it still isn't sinking into your brain yet, is it?
Cheers,
Your friend, Rolex.
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Only problem is that a digital master is identical to the copy. :rolleyes:
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I always thought that the master was analog in order to preserve everything in the original
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Back in the day, and still today - some will master specifically to 1 inch or 2 inch tape - When you buy a CD, you see a 3 letter form where A is analog and D is digital:
ADA
AAD
DAA
ADD
First is recording, second is mixing, third is mastering.
Digital mediums are hard disk based(Pro Tools, Logic, RADAR)
Analog refers to reel to reel tape, usually 2 inch.
It hardly ever stays digital in the mixing process - they are using an analog board or a summing mixer to warm the signal and return it back to hard disk.
99% of every record now will see some digital path, even if it is to edit.
Some producers or bands will stick with the same formula for sonic continuity.
Nowadays, digital seems to be getting warmer, but analogue will never be replaced.
As far as mastering goes, it will eventually go to a CD Redbook format, or a 24bit audio file stored for duplication. The glass master is the die for duplication machines, both sonically and sometimes visually for the print.
There is no difference between a glass master and a file stored on a hard disk so far as sonic quality goes.
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Originally posted by Black Sheep
As far as mastering goes, it will eventually go to a CD Redbook format, or a 24bit audio file stored for duplication. The glass master is the die for duplication machines, both sonically and sometimes visually for the print.
There is no difference between a glass master and a file stored on a hard disk so far as sonic quality goes.
What I was trying to get out of Rolex was the type of format that his glass CD was. If his glass CD was only a 16 bit redbook CD, then the original master recording was most likely superior in sound and the $800.00 glass CD sort of pointless.
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well that is basically true - it IS sort of redundant - but since hard drives can get wiped, there are always at least 10 Masters filed or floating around for security.
What he may be referring to is a 24 bit Master with a very high sample rate for accuracy. Only a few players will play them without having to dither and resample.
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Well, I apologize. I overestimated just how much Nuke and others know about how CDs work at the hardware level. You're looking at it from a higher level, like Newtonian physics vs. quantum mechanics.
Transferring anything, digital or analog, to another media is never perfect, and reading it is never perfect. With CDs, we're talking about transfering the data to a media using a geometric shape and the mechanical manufacturing transfer process is not error free. It's not like copying non-audio data machine to machine.
The glass master is used to make a metal stamper to press CDs. The glass master is not a perfect reproduction, but close enough. Yes, it too has errors, but the analog result is imperceptable to the human ear - they happen too fast. However, every step down the chain will introduce more imperfections.
Those CDs are read by analog mechanisms and digitized by gating. The raw error rate is surprisingly high and both encoding and error correction are used on all CDs to bring it to a manageable level. A data disc has an extra layer of error correcting code (ECC) which uses about 13% of the space; that is not used for audio, so the player provides error concealment or suppression circuitry to reduce the effects of misreading.
Audio CDs are read at 1x speed, so there isn't any time to go back and check if that 0 was really a zero, or the 1 was really a one, like is done on data discs. If you have a lot of things looking like 0.1 or 0.2, or 0.9 or 0.8, it's manageable. But when you get things looking like 0.4 or 0.6 hundreds of times during that unique read, those are hidden from you and massaged at the analog stage so you won't notice them much. But they are there.
A fast-spinning disc being read by a moving laser will always exhibit read errors. They are common and frequent on pressed and non-pressed CDs. Gaussian effect increases the read errors and it should be obvious that greater material clarity of the suface will reduce read errors since brightness and darkness across the read path is wider.
When you extract digital data through DAE or in raw form from a CD or VCD, stuff happens. All things being equal (format), the faster you run DAE, the greater the number of ticks and pops - bit errors - you will encounter.
If you think all subsequent digital copies are exact, then try making copies of copies of copies of CD-Rs on different drives with different writing software. In theory, it's just zeros and ones, right? The data will be there, no doubt. But in practice, the reading errors of that data at 1x speed will compound until degradation is evident to the ear as a reduction of sound brilliance.
For example, here are differences at the analog line output between a pressed CD and a CD-R. This data is directly from the redbook people - Philips. They should be the same, if digital is digital, right?
Line Out
Amplitude Linearity
On pressed CD: 1.5 dB (20 Hz - 20 kHz)
recordable CD: 2.5 dB (20 Hz - 16 kHz)
S/N-ratio
On pressed CD: 81 dB (84 dB A-wtg)
recordable CD: 80 dB (82 dB A-wtg)
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise
On pressed CD: 65 dB (1kHz)
recordable CD: 55 dB (1kHz)
Channel separation min.
On pressed CD: 70 dB (20 kHz) min.
recordable CD: 65 dB (16 kHz)
Those numbers are pretty good, but why don't they match? Why is CD-R playback inferior to that from a pressed disc if digital copying is exact?
Well, How about errors during data impression to imperfect media?
A glass CD, manufactured with fewer errors than an industry-standard pressed CD, will have less error correction being performed by the variety of drives out there and provide better archival quality of the data for subsequent copying.
I'm done. For those who are so darn sure I'm spouting nonsense, perhaps you don't know enough to even know the difference?
Cheers
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Rolex, you never answered anything specific or even posted a link about that particular glass CD that you had an orgasm over.
All I was saying....in fact asking was: is that glass cd that you posted about just a regular 16 bit, 44.1 kHz recording ?
I was also pointing out that a glass scratches and when that cd scratches, it will have errors too.
You said that it would not suffer from dregation of the surface materials, not have read errors resulting from surface degregatiopn, that it contained sound that was closer to live than anything that ever existed and that it would remain that way forever. None of that is true.
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Rolex, in a way, you're right. A CD player reading from your glass master will have an easier time to extract data from it, with fewer cases of the error correction kicking in. The signal from the laser is still analog at this point and mechanical (bits on a CD are just holes, after all) quality of CD manfucaturing plays an important role.
Noone refutes that using CD-Rs to write stuff on wont produce such a pristine analog "signal" on the resulting cd copy. If you keep copying over the same data from cd-r to cd-r, eventually, even an error might remain undetected and subsequent copies have a flipped bit stored to them.
But the point is that if you use a harddisk to store the CD image, and make a CD-R copy every now and then when your currenct copy is worn out, it would be sufficient to produce a readout which matches the original CD 1:1.
The difference is, eventually, even your master will be worn out.
Copying data in digital systems, however, have a significant smaller chance to accidentally flip a bit during that process than any analog system - even if it has a better signal quality to begin with.
Every single transistor in computer systems regenerates the signal. As long as the signal is adequate on the input side you receive a fresh signal as output.
For most of it's service life, the signal quality of a CD-R is "good enough" to still deliver an exact digital copy.
You're talking hardware, we're talking software here :)
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Yeah what the industry really needs is a totally revamped digital audio standard, not 16-bit pcm cd's made expensively from glass.
But I'm sure RIAA is rubbing its hands together looking at the concept - if some moron will pay $100 for massproduced glass cd they can keep on selling the same old crap and get 80% more profit over it. :aok
Which of the following samples do you think comes from cd and which dvd-audio?
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/AYRc5FIG05.jpg)
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/AYRc5FIG06.jpg)
And how much better would the cd sine wave look coming from a glass cd?