Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on October 24, 2006, 12:09:41 AM
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Seems to me the whining and complaining far outweighs any contstructive ideas on how to 'fix' things.
HTC has been very clear in what they are trying to accomplish. What they can't fix is how the community is operating, which is apparently two fairly disctinct camps of the furball v base taker/war winners.
Instead of griping about whichever side you don't like. How bout shutting up with the whining and offering some ideas on how we can get the community to coexist and actually play together, since this is just a game and meant for fun for everyone.
To that end, what do you think would help put the factions back on the map together.
I posted a while back my idea. In essence it involves being able to create a map that funnels the fights together in different parts of the map. Limiting what is capturable and making the strat part of the game take more of that teamwork folks are so fond of speaking of.
Satellite fighter fields and multiple VHs would help as well. Instead of being able to hit a field, kill the VH and manned acks, while setting up the vulch pattern to discourage any defense, there would be fighter strips a short distance away for defending fighters to get up to try and defend the base.
Folks speak of 'this is war'. Well check any history and there were always seperate fighter strips for that very purpose. You couldn't wipe out an entire airfield complex because the planes were dispersed at different fields in proximity to each other so that if one was getting hit they could launch fighters from the others.
Furballers sure don't mind defending a base if they can at least get their wheels up before getting vulched by 15 LA7s. Allowing those fighter strips means a defense can be mounted.
Also add VHs and camoflage their placement. Again for the 'this is war' crowd, historically it was one pass over an airfield as the ack was murder. Now ack is down in one pass. So much for a defense. Imagine the LTARs and their Osti's of doom, knowing they can get rolling from a spot that isn't known to everyone on the other side. Also add camoflaged manned ack sites, multiple 50s and 20s, 88s or whatever. Give the defenders a chance to defend. Make taking a base a real accomplishment taking real coordination and effort, not just that quick kill the VH and manned ack, set up the vulch and kill the town bit we have now. Give folks on the defending side a reason to feel like it's worth mounting a defense
My dream for AH is a setup that forces the crowds together. Give the furballers a reason to escort the bomber types, knowing they'll get the fight they love at the other end while covering the bomber and fighter bomber types who can show their skills against heavy ack and better defended targets.
I know that folks must have other ideas, but I'll be honest. I'm so sick of the whining and complaining, I'm about to bust. Put the energy into constructive ideas to make the game better and to help HTC move it forward.
Way too many good people around here for there not to be good ideas too.
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What you speak of takes some effort some if not alot of people arent willing to do. Its much easier to comlpain point fingers and act like whatevers wrong is "their" fault. You're right, its sad and a bit played out to say the least. You have my full support on something like this Dan. I wonder how many others are willing to step?
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How do you fix or offer suggestions to get more people on outside the peak times? Three arenas all as boring as an 8 player H2H arena.
I've offered constructive suggestions via email but got no response.
There used to be a community, but now there's a just a bunch of disenfranchised whiners. That won't be fixed until us "old" guys cycle out of the game and are replaced by a new subscriber base who accept the current status quo as the "norm".
You might be frustrated with the whining, but I'm frustrated watching the old community wither and fade, fuelled by an increasing grumpiness.
These are the suggestions I emailed in:
1. Rotate the arenas each day so there is only one available from Midnight Central US time until 7am. EW one day, MW the next, LW the next and so on.
2. Add another Arena if by some miracle numbers go over 250 in that time period.
3. Have some sort of browser that allows you to see where your squaddies are before you enter an arena. If you like being in a squad that is. I know that is increasingly unfashionable.
4. Do something to decrease load times when switching arenas.
5. Close Arenas as soon as a "war" is "won".
6. To foster more participation in the TA offer maybe 5 perks to be applied to the category of your chosing per hour spent helping newbies. This will help bridge the communication gap between newbies and oldies. This won't motivate people who could care less about perks, but may encourage some of the more mouthy players to give something back.
I hope that is a the sort of thing you were after.
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Actually, the best way to get more business from a different timezone is to have more customers from a different timezone. I don't see any way to generate that other than promoting the game more in that timezone ... if people in that timezone like and can afford the game.
Perhaps a NZ AH commercial would do the trick. :D
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The customers are there Arlo. There's usually 80-150 people logged in, it's just that they're split across three arenas, and each arena tends to be a bit unbalanced as well.
I've done everything I can to pimp AH in NZ, plaguing several sim and gaming forums for the last 3 or 4 years. I've given up though. It all comes down to IL2 having better graphics, and the type of people who play IL2 seriously seem to be introspective nerds who don't want to "put it out there" in a MMOG SIM in case they suck. As opposed to the outrageously extrovert nerds who play AH of course.
I've brought guys in and nutrured them during their two week trial, but a lot of them become bored with the concept of AH2 (no idea of "community"), and a surprising number can't cope with the volume of traffic their SA needs to handle.
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Originally posted by palef
How do you fix or offer suggestions to get more people on outside the peak times? Three arenas all as boring as an 8 player H2H arena.
I've offered constructive suggestions via email but got no response.
There used to be a community, but now there's a just a bunch of disenfranchised whiners. That won't be fixed until us "old" guys cycle out of the game and are replaced by a new subscriber base who accept the current status quo as the "norm".
You might be frustrated with the whining, but I'm frustrated watching the old community wither and fade, fuelled by an increasing grumpiness.
These are the suggestions I emailed in:
1. Rotate the arenas each day so there is only one available from Midnight Central US time until 7am. EW one day, MW the next, LW the next and so on.
2. Add another Arena if by some miracle numbers go over 250 in that time period.
3. Have some sort of browser that allows you to see where your squaddies are before you enter an arena. If you like being in a squad that is. I know that is increasingly unfashionable.
4. Do something to decrease load times when switching arenas.
5. Close Arenas as soon as a "war" is "won".
6. To foster more participation in the TA offer maybe 5 perks to be applied to the category of your chosing per hour spent helping newbies. This will help bridge the communication gap between newbies and oldies. This won't motivate people who could care less about perks, but may encourage some of the more mouthy players to give something back.
I hope that is a the sort of thing you were after.
Still up to us palef. Just because we suggest something doesn't mean it's going to get acted on. But if we can present ideas like we're adults as opposed to spoiled children, I'd assume we might get a more sympathetic ear. (not implying anything regarding your post btw. Just referencing the whining again)
Certainly what you are suggesting is worthy of looking at in some form I'd think. I know the browser to see where squaddies are has been mentioned a few times.
And this still is a community regardless of the few trying to deconstruct it.
Not to get overly serious, but in the 14 months since I lost two of my kids in an accident, this silly game has in many ways saved me from going crazy. Slipping CorkyJr on and diving into this made up world took me away from the craziness that goes on and continues to go on in the aftermath of that. Corky and AH allow me to step out of that real world stuff and slip into the history and the flying that I've dreamed about and loved since i was a kid. That escape has helped keep me sane. And alot of the credit for that goes to the good people in this game who I enjoy 'seeing' when I log on.
I feel like I owe it to those folks and the game to do what I can to try and make it better. I strongly believe we can make the community better then ever if we focus on moving forward and remembering this is just a game, filled with good folks, trying to have fun. Remembering that and realizing that it isn't serious like the real world is also important to getting folks to approach the game with a better attitude about it.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Not to get overly serious, but in the 14 months since I lost two of my kids in an accident, this silly game has in many ways saved me from going crazy. Slipping CorkyJr on and diving into this made up world took me away from the craziness that goes on and continues to go on in the aftermath of that. Corky and AH allow me to step out of that real world stuff and slip into the history and the flying that I've dreamed about and loved since i was a kid. That escape has helped keep me sane. And alot of the credit for that goes to the good people in this game who I enjoy 'seeing' when I log on.
I've been around a while and your story isn't unique. I have a Kiwi friend who took to AW3 for an escape after he lost a son and he came to AH when the squad we were in changed over. He says the same things that you do about this community helping him through those times, and I've since had my own children including one who spent the first 2.5 years of his life crippled by asthma (16 hospital stays, all life threatening) and another who has Down Syndrome.
Without the escape of this game I may have gone postal in real life instead of with virtual bullets in cartoon skies. I LOVE the fact that I am interacting with real people in real time from all over the world and I can kill them as required - virtually. We're not alone. :)
A lot of the people who were part of the community have faded away and the rate of attrition is either accelerating or I'm just too stupid to be able to figure out how to find them. I find that a little sad, and I think the recent changes have contributed to that.
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Originally posted by Slash27
What you speak of takes some effort some if not alot of people arent willing to do. Its much easier to comlpain point fingers and act like whatevers wrong is "their" fault.
Well said i think. Its easier to ask "HTC" to fix things and present you success ans fun on a platter then to put in some effort yourself.
Yes i know, we pay 14.95 a month to have fun. Agree. So do I, but i still try to give something to this community, make it a better one. Everyone can do something - even if it is just being respectful to other members of the community and maybe think not only of yourself but also of whats being around you. Because it is *OUR* responsibility as a community to make this game "work" - HT just provides the "hardware".
Guppy, WFGF , my thoughts and prayers are with both of you. Hang in there!
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You guys talking and making sense, be careful, newcomers might start to think we got something good going here!!!:O
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totally agree guppy.
Yesterday when i logged in I was subjected to a bunch of guys all whining on 200 about what other games they could play because AH is now totally unbearable for them.
Must have been 3-5am for a bunch of old GV drivers sobbing into the bottom of their glasses because they couldnt find a fight.
AH is primarily a WW2 flying experience.
off peak is still a problem when lw1 gets full and the others have no players in but this is for a duration of about 2 hours between 3-5pm GMT....
just get on with it.
Bruv
~S~
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Well is there really a problem?
Is HTC's client base growing or shrinking?
I think its still growing, and it seems he expects its going to grow some more.
Is the populace of all the arenas now equal to the populace of the old main? well the answer seems to be yes it is.
Was the spilt driven by a fued between "furballers" and "land grabbers" or "shed killers"?
Well according to HT it was not.......... he just wants us to be "nice soldiers" (tm ACCS) and give his expanding client base more choice. (EW, MW, LW)
I think that what we all have to come to terms with is that the average age and therefore level of maturity of our players gets younger every year.
With this the game play objectives and the desire for instant (rather than earned) stimulation is higher. Hence gameplay changes.
Further the community becomes less "Band of Brothers" and more "Lord of the Flies" in the manner in which it conducts itself.
We here are infact the "vocal few". Indeed we are a community within a community. We are obviously passionate about AH to some extend but we also clearly have "agendas" regarding it and it is these that conflict.
This is particularly the case when the game development slows up. When upgrades or developments (that develop game play) are slowed right down then folk can get bored.
It becomes more the "same old same old". Then our conflict of agendas mixed with our passion becomes conflict within the community. There is less hope that the next change may bring help to our agendas. Rational debate becomes name calling and attempts are made to win debates by ridicule and sheer peer pressure.
If the community is to be co hesive, positive and forward thinking then it has to accomodate all the agendas. It will be subject to conflict whilst one agenda want dominance over any other.
So find a place or gameplay set up that means that
land grabers can win wars
furballers can find fights
shed killers can bomb sheds
vehicle drivers can fight in the mud
and all contribute to an arena wide (or multi arena wide) sence of community.
and meet the needs of HTC's ever expanding, less mature client base.
Whilst not requiring a level of investment that would wreck HTC's business.
Cos if HTC's client base is expanding, then he has no real need to do anything other than what he is doing
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Don't be so negative. We're in a period of transition. Lead by example and wait until the dust settles. :cool:
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good ol' guppy.
a few suggestions
manned 88mm and 37mm ack at every town and very accurate 37mm auto ack at every town.
a VH in every town.
a town to take down at every Vbase and port.
the ability to up jabos/attack platforms from every VH and port.
mostly inaccesible towns with either steep grades for vehicle approach or sand traps where the vehicles must slow down to a crawl.
in excess of 30 troops to capture a base, and lastly the ability to up as an individual grunt with an M1 Garand and a .45/ MP40 and a P38 from the barracks as a last ditch town defense, each town having it's own garrison.
then when one team wins the war they really won the war.
I would then auto rotate the maps every second day irrespective of war win or no.
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Palef, just FYI. I never saw that email. Here is a guideline. If you do not here back from me (support@hitechcreations.com) within 24 hours (weekdays) of sending an email, you can safely assume I did not get it.
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Air Warrior went through the same growing pains.
Patience Lads!
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Originally posted by Hajo
Air Warrior went through the same growing pains.
Patience Lads!
where is it now? ;)
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"Further the community becomes less "Band of Brothers" and more "Lord of the Flies" in the manner in which it conducts itself."
That is simply the best "short & sweet" and "directly to the point" analogy made yet.
And the rest of your post Tilt is superb as usual.
And a big Guppy for expressing his thoughts in an effort to spark some type of improvement with the community.
*For the 80% of those who think they do that when they post please note the complete lack of whining, blatant threat to cancel the account and spastic use of massive exaggeration to make ones point.
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I think we can see loads of very well intentioned suggestions in the wish list section.
I always return to gameplay as the aspect i would wish to develop further.
For me the ideal gameplay model is one where every one interacts and achieves satisfaction doing so whilst being somewhat representative of the roles played by their rides during the conflict historically.
I note that the strategic model within AH is now largely ignored. Buffs are not hitting factories to deplete the resources of the opposing side.
Generally buffs are being used to directly attrit field resources only being used agin strat for point farming.
Land grab is focussed upon airfield aquisition......
Gameplay has moved to a model which is based upon stopping your opponent from taking the field against you. (killing hangers, porking troops, vulch capping bases)
This may be very viable for a win but is poor on fun factor.
Its in effect negative gameplay.
I would like to see stuff that promotes positive gameplay.
Buffs must have targets that mean something, change something and influence the "war" its what they live for. However the effective ness of buffs should be cumulative and not instant One formations of B24's (ie one player) should not be able to take out a whole airfield and make it useless to ac. (it never happened in WWII why should it here?)
For me there should be more hangers per field ....... many more. making the existing few harder gives poor reward to the buffer........... he wants to destroy something....so let him.
Just make him destroy more or indeed cause more buffs to attack to be effective.
Move towns further from airfields and add towns closely linked to vehicle fields and ports. Put vehicle fields (and their new towns) very close to those towns linked to airfields. This is to remove the need to vulch cap an air field in order to capture. It also tends to change the buffs focus toward the town its self and the local vh field protecting it.
Put these three groups further from the normal front line than the airfield. Such that it is easier for defenders to recapture than it was for the invaders.
Make towns bigger infact double them up per field but put them together.
Remove the link between supplies and barracks (new)such that re supply is always an option if the ride (M3, Jeep, C47) is available.
Make it possible to re supply towns. (new)
Vastly increase the number of barracks at vehicle fields making it very difficult to pork troops at vehicle fields.
Increase puffy AA at airfields....significantly like 5 times.
Change town AA to gguns.
Increase manned guns at Vehicle fields particularly those covering map rooms.
Create a spawn matrix for vehicles that operates like a road network around the terrain.
Do not spawn vehcles toward air fields...........spawn vehicles toward towns (v spawns from airfields will only be to the linked town) and other vehicle fields/ports and their towns (from other vehicle fields/ports).
Create a period after capture where the field cannot be used and yet cannot be re captured. Say 5 to 10 minutes(new). During which stuff repairs as it normally would.
Make the terrain viable for time to target/action delays set distances that allow a reasonable time from spawn to target that folk can manouvre with prior to action yet not take too long to get there.
Overlap the radar ranges more............
OK what does all this do...............
Well in my opinion..........
Focus is moved from the airfield to the town and the vehicle fields/ports.
Big Buffs will tend to attack towns and vehicle fields/ports more, and be rewarded. The land grab will be very dynamic but biased to land forces and defences who rely upon the support of buffs to deplete the towns.
Fighters will now travel to fight over/near towns not their own air fields. Air superiority must be required to allow buffs passage.***
Ground attack will still be focussed agin enemy vehicles and town objects but have serious work cut out trying to stop infantry deployment from vehicle fields.
Towns will be the focus where all forms of combat merge.
The dead time after capture will allow for forces to gather to counter attack, dead times will prevent, cheap sneak recaptures, they will prevent steam rollering a map.
*** this is a whole other topic but if buffs do not need to worry about air superiority over their target then all game play balance is lost IMO.
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Originally posted by Tilt
the community becomes less "Band of Brothers" and more "Lord of the Flies" in the manner in which it conducts itself.
Heh. Best description I've yet seen.
My take: We're about two months away from things being more or less normal again.
We've now passed through the trembling anger stage where those who are upset try to get HTC to change its corporate mind and reinstitute the old system.
We're in the middle of the self-examination stage. Those people who value large squads more than simulated air combat are dropping out. Hate to see anyone go, and hope that most or all of them will come back once they start to miss it.
We're starting to see the BBS return to its usual self. Heck, someone just started a chute shooting thread.
While the change has been truly dreadful for the AvA arena, I think one of the reasons is that the other arenas have become so comparatively pleasant. I've been to all of them now (finally ventured into LW last night). People say hello, they salute you, compliment your flying or gunnery when circumstances warrant, and occasionally even apologize for ganging. Haven't heard any foul language on VOX. We used to get a lot of people in AvA who were just sick and tired of the rudeness in the MA. Now we don't. (If you don't believe that we are entering a kinder, gentler period, note that Storch just apologized to someone who got picked.)
So: Not to worry, is my view. Fundamentally, most of us want to fly airplanes against real people....or we'd be playing one of the men-in-tights games. This is still far and away the best of the games that allow us to do this - and now we're doing it with just a bit more class than we were doing it a couple of months ago.
- oldman
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Have manable ack in town also!
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I have allways liked the idea of having huge cities for each country that took massive amounts of bombs to kill.. when the city/cities died... end of war.. reset.
the fluffers could bomb the cities and the guys who liked to escort could and the rest could just fly fighter sweeps between the airfields and.... furball. The fields could have very accurate and deadly ack to take down any fluff dumb enough to fly low enough over one to hit one.
the only way the furballers and the toolshedders can get along is if they have no real affect on each other and... rarely interact together.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Oldman731
(If you don't believe that we are entering a kinder, gentler period, note that Storch just apologized to someone who got picked.)
You're living dangerously--putting "Storch" and 'period" in the same sentence. (j/k:D )
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Originally posted by Tilt
Air superiority must be required to allow buffs passage.***
*** this is a whole other topic but if buffs do not need to worry about air superiority over their target then all game play balance is lost IMO.
I can't agree with you more here. I hate focussing on such a specific issue within what otherwise is a multifaceted problem, but this one, IMHO, is key.
I remember a reading a story Ken Walsh told about B-24's getting jumped by Ki-43's and the bomber pilots screaming over the radio for help. In AH, we'd laugh at something with the durability of a zeke and 2X12.7mm attacking a formation of buffs...
We need a situation where taking unescorted bombers anywhere is a suicide mission, or at least a very dangerous undertaking that guarantees high loss rates (as it was in real life).
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"I'm so sick of the whining and complaining, I'm about to bust. Put the energy into constructive ideas to make the game better and to help HTC move it forward.
Way too many good people around here for there not to be good ideas too."- Dan
I've given out alot of ideas. Im tired of trying. The community is looking sad because it is sad.
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Gameplay has moved to a model which is based upon stopping your opponent from taking the field against you. (killing hangers, porking troops, vulch capping bases)
This may be very viable for a win but is poor on fun factor.
Its in effect negative gameplay.
I would like to see stuff that promotes positive gameplay.
Buffs must have targets that mean something, change something and influence the "war" its what they live for. However the effective ness of buffs should be cumulative and not instant One formations of B24's (ie one player) should not be able to take out a whole airfield and make it useless to ac. (it never happened in WWII why should it here?)
For me there should be more hangers per field ....... many more. making the existing few harder gives poor reward to the buffer........... he wants to destroy something....so let him.
Just make him destroy more or indeed cause more buffs to attack to be effective.
I think this is absolutely key, along with the changes that Dan has recently rebroached to funnel the action. Personally, I'm a big strat guy... but not in AH. In fact, I would be playing a lot more in the new arenas (which are a lot more fun now when I have played) if I didn't recently make the "mistake" of finally purchasing Rome Total War. A bit busy putting the Gauls to the blade these days :) It's also a bit easier to play with the mouse in one hand and the baby asleep on the other arm...
There is no real "strat" game in AH -- more a version of tactical tic-tac-toe and that got boring about age 5. I know that I would participate actively in a real strat model with some added complexity and nuance where you were encouraged to have tough fights, in some historical combat context (platforms required to be used in the way they were in WW2 for success) and have each attack mean a bit more than it does now. It would also provide a natural tie in to th concepts that will be at play in the CT. For example, it might be cool to have those truck convoys etc. and trains that were once so exciting years ago when first added have some real significance :) There is so much underdeveloped/undeveloped potential in this area that it's hard to imagine HT and Pyro are fully satisfied with "AW 2007".
Charon
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It seems to me that all of the animosity ... i.e. furballers vs toolshedders vs GVers... really comes down to Base Capture and how Base Capture is accomplished.
Here's a thought on base captures:
GV Bases: capturable only by GVs, with the exception of the LVT. If the GV Base is upon a shoreline...the LVT may capture this GV Base. If the GV Base is one sector, or more, Inland from the Shoreline, only M3s and Jeeps may be used to capture.
Airfield Bases: capturable only by C47, with the exception of the LVT which may capture Airfield Bases upon a shoreline. If the Airfield Base is one sector, or more, Inland from the Shoreline, only the C47 may capture.
Ports: capturable only from the sea via LVT, or PT Boat (not a new idea putting troops on PTs). Ports would not be capturable from the ground via GVs (including LVT if the LVT launched from a GV Base), nor from the air via C47.
Before any capture attempt can succeed, the City Strat for that Zone must first be reduced to 50%.
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charon... exactly... the toolshedders and former (LOL) relaxed realism guys... like to say that their strat game is some form of extreme chess or something when in reality... it is as you say, tic tac toe.
others have said it to.. resets are just starting all over and nothing more.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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by patches1
Before any capture attempt can succeed, the City Strat for that Zone must first be reduced to 50%.
I think this is a great idea. Loads of missions from this 1 single concept and thats before the land grab even start.
20k and 30k bombers. Fighters struggling for alt to intercept. Escorts doing escort stuff. Fake raids on cities for a high alt fights. Diversions to allow bombers to make it in. High alt fighter sweeps because that dar bars inb from 3 sectors out and the 3 sector NOE jabo raids lol.
ummm down side...guys that don't know how to kill high alt bombers posting 50 gazillian whines about bullet proof bombers. Deadly accurate tail gunners...blah blah.
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That IS a great idea!
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Palef, just FYI. I never saw that email. Here is a guideline. If you do not here back from me (support@hitechcreations.com) within 24 hours (weekdays) of sending an email, you can safely assume I did not get it.
Fair call chief.
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and former (LOL) relaxed realism guys
Im a former RR guy...I dont do "strat game" as you call it...so you can quit with your stereotyping sir.
RR was all about fun as i remember it...even if it was in a fully gunned b17 turning/looping around otw to spit factory...but that was fun. imo of course
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toolshedders and former (LOL) relaxed realism guys... like to say that their strat game is some form of extreme chess or something
Originally posted by killnu
Im a former RR guy...I dont do "strat game" as you call it...so you can quit with your stereotyping sir.
[/b]
What killnu said. The previous statment is just dumb.
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Agreed. most of us started in RR. I know i went kicking and screaming to FR.
Any number of us AH 'vets' were RR vets long before we went to FR including a certain BK CO who was hanging out with the Nomads in RR as +Uber, +Dead etc :)
It was about fun at that point too.
The RR/FR debate from a bygone era has nothing to do with what we're talking about now.
And I'd hate to derail any thread trying to come up with ways to improve the community by ressurecting old AW stuff.
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Before any capture attempt can succeed, the City Strat for that Zone must first be reduced to 50%.
Here's an idea I posted in June 2003, that sums up the concept, with my rational.
My fantabulous strat idea
The current version of strat in AH is seeing a lot of discussion lately. As with many, I find the recent changes to be a step backward. It was this very “big pork” concept which finally drove me out of AW after 8 years of playing.
Obviously, I’m not a strat guy in AH -- furball all the way. However, that does not mean that I don’t like tactical and strategic gameplay. Truth be told, I probably spend more hours playing games like Civilization 3 than I do AH. In fact, I can’t recall ever playing AH or AW for 18 hours straight like I have DOS Empire or Civ 1- 3 or a variety of wargames, so it’s not like I dislike strat in general. It’s just that the strat in AH, in spite of an excellent selection of tools to play with, leads to the least common denominator, steamroller style of play that keeps my interest about as much as tic-tac-toe. So, what can be done with the already excellent set of tools to add more variety, challenge and opportunity for both furballers and strat guys alike without forcing too much change in individual gameplay preferences? What could get a guy like me interested in AH strat? Here’s my idea.
1. Building upon the current zone setup, have strategic targets deep in each country’s territory that act as an on off switch for base capture (you could use existing facilities or change the current map layout to better suit the concept). In essence, each target would influence the airfields in its zone. If the strat target was up, then the fields would be invulnerable. Once the strat target received a certain amount of damage, the fields would be damageable and captureable as they are now for a set amount of time, say one hour. This would be indicated by a change in color on the map. The strat targets could not be rebuilt, but would automatically come up after the allotted time. Consider this the impact of industrial attrition that makes the “invasion” possible in the first place.
The strat targets could be set up to highly encourage the use of heavy bombers with more physical area, heavy low altitude AAA and their distance from the front lines earlier in the “war.” This would give the heavy bomber guys a real war-winning role. Bomber mission(s) would have to be organized, planned and escorted to open the drive into enemy territory. Conversely, the LW guys could hitch on the leather underwear and spend time flying high altitude anti-bomber patrols with some assurance of actually seeing regular action. Would this force someone out of their heavy P-51 to fly a bomber if they don’t want to? Perhaps, from time to time, but I rather think there would be standing bomber squads on call planning and executing these missions regularly if they had a stronger reason to participate.
2. Once the strategic target is hit, the airfields could be made invulnerable again if a truck convoy, barge or train reaches the airfield. These would have to be stopped at any cost, leading to an attack mission where some of the jabo horde would have to fly interdiction. Elements at the airfield like fuel, etc, could be rebuilt by a c-47 or M-3 with a more favorable ratio than currently exists. This would lead to the attackers having to fly some C-47 intercept missions as well as the defenders. You could also add a marshalling yard (trains), barge port (barges) or supply depot (trucks) at a size and distance and adjusted AAA that would make them primary targets for medium bombers where speed and load would count. Hitting one of these targets would slow down the resupply interval for that type of transport. You could also add bridge targets for divebombers, with some increased bomb dispersion for fighter jabos to be more historically accurate (IMO) and actually give someone a reason to fly a JU-87/88, Val or Dauntless (A-24). Dropping a bridge could block a river from barge traffic or cut a road or rail line. These should be heavily defended (AAA) as they were in real life. Bridges of Toko-Ri anyone?
Once captured, the airfield would be linked to the capturing country's associated strat and supply zone.
3. How about a land war? Required a land assault to take the large airfields, but leave the small bases open to land or C-47 capture.
4. In general the current jabo capture style would remain the same, but various adjustments as discussed in other threads and a few of my own could lessen the sheer numbers aspect that exists now. More dispersed fuel targets. How many WW2 airfields had a big central fuel dump vs dispersed, camouflaged 55 gallon drums in the woodline (at least for the axis)? Adjustments on survival time requirements after the hit for the hit to count in order to counter the kamikaze hordes. Having a fuel or hanger hit take out the premium aircraft, but leave 1942/43 era aircraft flyable, perhaps from remote grass “spawn” fields around the main airfield. More mannable acks. Vulnerable Jeeps with a .50 that could spawn from a remote vehicle spawn point (even when the main VH was down) and drive to the field (give the defenders something to do and even give the vulchers some added action squashing the cockroaches ). Of course, with changes 1-3 you could leave jabo as it is now and still have a more entertaining strategic game.
Well, build on it, ignore it or tear it apart. I believe these changes would bring some real strategy and tactical planning/operations to AH that I would actually like to participate in on a regular basis. It would make capture harder, but then there would actually be some challenge for the serious strat player and a worthy companion to the excellent A2A ACM simulator which is where the game really shines. Obviously, the maps would have to be readjusted. I would imagine that the strictly jabo guys would always be able to find a vulnerable zone to attack, the bomber guys a zone in need of hitting, and the furballers as much if not more opportunity to find a fight. The milkrunners on a Pizza or Trinity might be out of luck more often, but there’s always offline play.
Charon
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Originally posted by Charon
Here's an idea I posted in June 2003, that sums up the concept, with my rational.
Charon
fantastic ideas there.... ive always wished for strat targets to be more like real life..... clumped together. IE a big city, with the other strat targets around it. This protected by at least 3 bases and murderous flak. I always thought that damaging the strat factories should be what damages the strat at the field, NOT being able to pork the field itself (its too easy, and too short of a flight).
porking the base strat, should be only half of what is required to fully pork it. Bombing the main city (300mile round trip) and the strat targets within down to at least 50% is needed before local fields on the front feel the damage.
This way, "furballers" can have there fun, because the bases are never fully porked, but they HAVE to protect that main city. The bombers would also have to fly within properly organised raids, allowing them to meet people that like this style, and constantly fly with them, creating a friendly comminuty within that.
Heavy bombers will only be uppable from large bases, and large bases are not the front line bases... this would stop (or reduce) the suicide buff'ers at the fields. and will also cause bombers to have to run lower speeds/ or max fuel.
Med bombers only uppable at med bases, which are close to the front line. These are used for base defence against gvs.
Front line bases are small bases, with only fighter/attack planes. mini FT at every front line base......
another aspect could be created would mimic what P47s did over germany, flying a attack mission to damage roads/rail, and to try and get the LW into the air and fight/die. Damaging railroad depots, or killing supply trains would slow down resupply of bases. (ie killing the supply trains can have the same result as bombing city, but you would have to do it every 5minutes)
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Originally posted by Overlag
The bombers would also have to fly within properly organised raids, allowing them to meet people that like this style, and constantly fly with them, creating a friendly comminuty within that.
Heavy bombers will only be uppable from large bases, and large bases are not the front line bases... this would stop (or reduce) the suicide buff'ers at the fields. and will also cause bombers to have to run lower speeds/ or max fuel.
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea, but is the typical player in the community going to be willing to (1) put together 4-6 sections of buffs with 4-6 escorts (2) take the hour or more that it would take to fly the mission?
I think the biggest reason that the fight in the MA takes place below 12K is simply because people aren't patient enough to climb to altitude. B-17's didn't drop at 28K feet for ease, and certainly not for accuracy--they did it for survival only...They made up for the accuracy with massive numbers, blankets of ordnance, and a pretty low expectation of what a "successful" mission was (30% of all bombs within a certain distance of the aimpoint IIRC). Our targets, for the most part, are point targets.
One of advantages (to some of the players) of the current set up is that you don't necessarily have to engage in team play to create a decisive effect on the virtual battlefield. You can take up a set of bombers, drop all the hangars, and shut down a base all on your own--or fly a fast plane and pork a field all on your own.
Would the game sustain itself if achieving all those effects was much more difficult and required large amounts of "team" play?
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Originally posted by Stoney74
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea, but is the typical player in the community going to be willing to (1) put together 4-6 sections of buffs with 4-6 escorts (2) take the hour or more that it would take to fly the mission?
I think the biggest reason that the fight in the MA takes place below 12K is simply because people aren't patient enough to climb to altitude. B-17's didn't drop at 28K feet for ease, and certainly not for accuracy--they did it for survival only...They made up for the accuracy with massive numbers, blankets of ordnance, and a pretty low expectation of what a "successful" mission was (30% of all bombs within a certain distance of the aimpoint IIRC). Our targets, for the most part, are point targets.
One of advantages (to some of the players) of the current set up is that you don't necessarily have to engage in team play to create a decisive effect on the virtual battlefield. You can take up a set of bombers, drop all the hangars, and shut down a base all on your own--or fly a fast plane and pork a field all on your own.
Would the game sustain itself if achieving all those effects was much more difficult and required large amounts of "team" play?
i dunno, id just perfer to see the heavy bombers, used in the role that should be used in.... i almost cry every time i see a lancaster drop 14x1000lbs over a GV spawn then auger into the ground :lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
the only way the furballers and the toolshedders can get along is if they have no real affect on each other and... rarely interact together.
Its not the only way. I find I get along with furballers, toolshedders, GV'ers, and whatever other lable I missed. Is it really that hard?
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Originally posted by lazs2
others have said it to.. resets are just starting all over and nothing more.
its the fight to get to that point people do resets for.....its also about changing maps... sometimes i remember fighting even harder than normal just so we could get rid of a map we didnt like lol
Originally posted by lazs2
I have allways liked the idea of having huge cities for each country that took massive amounts of bombs to kill.. when the city/cities died... end of war.. reset.
the fluffers could bomb the cities and the guys who liked to escort could and the rest could just fly fighter sweeps between the airfields and.... furball. The fields could have very accurate and deadly ack to take down any fluff dumb enough to fly low enough over one to hit one.
i like it, which is unusal! However wouldnt that remove the need for fighters? ;)
Originally posted by lazs2
the only way the furballers and the toolshedders can get along is if they have no real affect on each other and... rarely interact together.
thats silly. If you furballers are so elite then surely you can down 3 slow moving objects? furballers could be part of "base" capturing if it wasnt to do with toolsheding/vulching, if it was a ZOC type thing?
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Originally posted by Slash27
Its not the only way. I find I get along with furballers, toolshedders, GV'ers, and whatever other lable I missed. Is it really that hard?
I try to get along with all sorts that prefer all sorts of game style, so long as we respect each other's character and differences. That in itself has proven difficult for some. I feel that there are those that, if it were possible, would do everything they could to have HTC cancel the subscriptions of those who's difference in game-style conflicts with thier own-- hence the "I wish you would quit/go away/go play another game" statements I've seen pop up.
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maybe some of you fellows take what is typed in your direction far too seriously.
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Originally posted by storch
maybe some of you fellows take what is typed in your direction far too seriously.
to be honest..... so do you :p
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rest assuredly, I do not.
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At this point, I think only Darwin can fix things, and we're awfully short on large predators in these parts. Pity.
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Originally posted by storch
rest assuredly, I do not.
yeah.......
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190164
:p
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not at all bothered by that or taken anywhere near seriously
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One suggestion to help the community.
Make it possible to land and pickup downed pilots. While we're at it one GV could pick up a disabled driver. Just watch what happens.
I've mentioned before that the game doesn't reward the person who brings supplies and provides support.
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Originally posted by thndregg
I try to get along with all sorts that prefer all sorts of game style, so long as we respect each other's character and differences. That in itself has proven difficult for some. I feel that there are those that, if it were possible, would do everything they could to have HTC cancel the subscriptions of those who's difference in game-style conflicts with thier own-- hence the "I wish you would quit/go away/go play another game" statements I've seen pop up.
Getting old isnt it?
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It got old a year ago, Slash.:(
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Originally posted by Overlag
i dunno, id just perfer to see the heavy bombers, used in the role that should be used in.... i almost cry every time i see a lancaster drop 14x1000lbs over a GV spawn then auger into the ground :lol
I totally agree with this, and I think this type of gaming the game is exactly what (sorry for speaking for you) Corky is talking about. Personally, I'd love to see formations of 12 or more sets of bombers with tons of escorts, as long as we had notice they were on the way--fight's on! It'd almost be like an instantaneous FSO mission.
The only problem is it takes patience on the part of the players--a commodity that IMO is lacking among a large portion of the community. That's why my own personal hope is that CT can provide that type of play. The people that like that kind of play will have the opportunity, hopefully, to indulge in some more immersive play. I'll come back to the MA when I want to mix it up at 2,000 feet off the deck...
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Agreed. most of us started in RR. I know i went kicking and screaming to FR.
Any number of us AH 'vets' were RR vets long before we went to FR including a certain BK CO who was hanging out with the Nomads in RR as +Uber, +Dead etc :)
It was about fun at that point too.
The RR/FR debate from a bygone era has nothing to do with what we're talking about now.
And I'd hate to derail any thread trying to come up with ways to improve the community by ressurecting old AW stuff.
I don't think it might be considered derailment. I began virtual life in FR. It is interesting to note RR arenas were over-populated nightly. I gather that says something for the type of people who flew back then. Although it might also say something for the type of people that might show up in the furture.
IMHO if HT was after the big bucks he'd already have RR arena's. As he could have filled them nightly. He hasn't and surprise-surprise, lots of folks have actually taken the time to learn to fly. And yes, RR was the easy way out and lots of bomber pilots might be flying fighters if it was here today.
THE only thing I that I've ever had a question about is the statement concerning:
"We made this change because it will allow us to support an unlimited amount of players in a much healthier online environment that gives us better long-term growth. The single MA has grown to the point of being unhealthy. This is not a subjective evaluation, it is quantifiable and they are numbers that we look at every day. It's obvious that we simply cannot keep pumping more players into a single arena without hitting a stagnation point. "
I haven't been able to figure what's unhealthy about 500 players up having fun together. Sure, there are some folks that will be complaining on 200. I don't happen to spend much time listening to that channel as I always had enough fun talking within my own Country and with my Squadmates. There always seemed to be fights available just about anywhere. Don't get me wrong. I talked with other Countries members from time to time to say Hi to friends or respond to a good fight. So the statement above confuses me. How many makes it unhealthy?350? 500? 650? How is it quantified? I suppose if the only reason someone got up was to complain about something not going their way it's always been easy enough to mute them. The same goes chl 200 or even these boards. When someone realizes their petty whines have little value they normally fall in line with the rest of the community or leave the game.
What is more odd is another arena has been added. That adds more dimension to the game for some. They can go play in an EW or MW arena. Ok, we had the CT which could be considered one of those. But, we got another one. What makes it so odd is both of the new arenas get almost the same participation as the old CT got. The majority of the folks STILL lean toward the LW. To the point that a second spill over arena was neccessary. What does that mean?
If I had any worries at all it would be that "a community life style" appears to have changed over the years. The Community as a whole used to address concccerns through peer pressure. I don't see that happening anymore. Pity. It really is a great game. Leave bias at the door, get up and enjoy the game for what it is.
Ren
The Damned and a Player of AH2
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
If I had any worries at all it would be that "a community life style" appears to have changed over the years. The Community as a whole used to address concccerns through peer pressure. I don't see that happening anymore. Pity. It really is a great game. Leave bias at the door, get up and enjoy the game for what it is.
Ren
The Damned and a Player of AH2
I think we (the community as a whole) simply got too large to do that, and I shudder to think what it's like for the guys who are completely new. AW was my first venture into the online world, and at times, I was absolutely baffled. Even today, the kind of behavior I see on 200 at times (me a seasoned AH veteran of 5 years) still pisses me off, but it seems ingrained in the minds of many. Those guys have no idea who we are, and they don't care. That's how they've acted, likely because they saw someone else act that way, and that's all there is to it. Hopefully that kind of behavior will die off, but only time will tell.
Regarding the rest: as a former RR dweeb, I can describe my actions and feelings in the FR arena pretty succinctly- ****ing clueless. I loved the game, but I had 0 idea what to do, or how to do it. Seems to me that there are lots of guys starting out these days who are pretty much in the same position. While an RR arena to help them get on their feet and get going seems like a good idea, I would think that there would be the same division between the 2 subsets of the community that existed in AW. That kind of thing, while amusing to those who remember it, probably would only agitate AH players who hadn't already survived the standard AW taunting.
Anyway, that's how I'm seeing things.
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Don't get me wrong. I don't neccesarily advocate an RR arena as I am old school FR. To most FR guys RR was an arcade game. But, there was a difference. There was no animosity of RR players by FR players. However, it did seem to have it's niche and brought alot of players to the game who would have moved on to easier games.
Anyone from the old days should remember taunting was more of a good natured affair. Yes, there was always one or two who went overboard but normally peeer pressure stopped it. We'd up a couple of buffs with fighter escort and go pork the spit factory or some back field. It'd be a fight in and out. Normally everyone made it. The reason was tactics. Recently I flew one of the scenarios. Bombers escorted to hit some target. They never made it. Reason? Tactics. It's no different than the old days. If you flew with 4 guys on a sweep and someone got in on an enemy then 2 stayed up to cover and 2, max, went down and took care of business. The same with the bomber escort mission. The flight was jumped by coalt and maybe a few higher fighters. Within a few minutes 75% of all escorts were on the deck. Instead of pushing the enemy down they followed them and the bombers got hit by a smaller group and died.
That's why I say the issue lays with our community. Let's face facts. There are tons of bomber pilots flying around because they just love to take a ahour to get to a reasonable altitude, try and bomb (and yes HT made it sooooo easy to bomb...) then get shot down most of the time. Think about the history of fighters. I wanna be a fighter pilot!! It's cool! You can't cut it. So it becomes, I want to be a bomber pilot cause Im still a pilot and I'm doing something for my country. Hmmm, still don't have the coordination to do that...so it becomes...I wanna be a navigator or gunner on a bomber. Why? Because its alot better than being a mud marine, etc. Now take this game or any other flight game. Did you join up with AH because, "Hey! What a great game! I wanna be a bomber pilot!!!" How many people do you know that walked in the door and jumped in a plane started in a B-17? Did you?
Hubs right about folks being clueless. First you gotta learn to fly. While doing that you gotta learn the rules of conduct within the game. If all you hear is garbge on 200 then you think I guess this is how we're supposed to act. Meanwhile, you barely get off the ground and die from someone you never saw before. "What?, you say", "You really can see behind you? Wow!" So now you get up a few times and die alot. This fighter thing might be a bit too much but durn he game is awesome so I guess I'll try out bombers. Yeah, bombers I can get a little high shoot people down AND i can actually hit a target I bomb every once in a while. they don;t ask why they ccan shoot someone down. If they did they might find out those guys they shoot down are the same guys who they were a month ago. They were getting killed all the time by other fighters so those folks would go after the bombers. With no tactical training they just run up the bombers 6 and became easy targets for the bomber driver. When they run outa idea guess what....they too become bomber drivers. Wait!! Lets try out GV's....yeah, thats right....cool!!!!
My thoughts are our community isn't doing much to help new guys get up to speed. Trainers try and get them so they don't die every flight. At least they have a fighting chance to become decent pilots. But, the older squads get too picky about who they bring in and you end up with squads made up of guys who never learned anything picking up new guys who know even less. The final result is you get big squads of clueless guys running around trying to have fun. Then it becomes, "you bastige! you interupted my fight"! "How dare you". Or, how bout this one..."you cheated! There's no way you can fly like that". If yer clueless, then there must be some explaination so cheating sounds about right.
IMHO until the community starts thinking of this as a game again instead of being a " I was gang banged and you're no good so let's settle this in the DA" or some other such BS and just get back up and have fun it won't matter how many people you have up in an anera. People forgot to have fun. Nasty to everyone around aint fun its stupid. Try helping the new guys. Alot don't know much about nor start in the Ta and are pretty much lost from the moment they get up. Give them a chance to become a pilot like you were and enjoy the fact they got up and tried their best to give you a fight.
The Community makes the game what it is. The community has to fix it when it burps. Splitting up arenas is a bandaid not a fix. Until we change our mindset nothing will change.
Ren
The Damned and an AH Player
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I remember when FR in AW had like 30 people in it nightly. We were an RR squad back then, and a few of us decided to give FR a try. We messed around in there a bit until we finally started getting better. Then the rest of the squad came over.
After a while, many other squads made the move to FR. We usually had a couple hundred people in there.
I don't remember there being any disputes between FR and RR. Except for an occasional comment about RR being a training area for future FR pilots. It was like two different games. I can't remember anyone from RR. I just didnt know any of them.
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Originally posted by Patches1
Before any capture attempt can succeed, the City Strat for that Zone must first be reduced to 50%.
(You are on the right way of thinking But the idea still need work.....)
So what? what can force me to land grabing if i am a furballer? who cares for 1 more field (take it or lost it ? ).
What can force bombers go real High (as in reality) and fighters go High to
intercept them as in reality, as was designed) if they have nothing to loose ?
ONLY ONE ( 1 ) thing can force you go High (as in rearlity) and kill bombers..
When you have to protect your lovely Spit Factory (or lala).
Dont you protect it ? No Spit.
Hordes of Spit Dweebs will take off to protect their ride with any kind of cannon fighters (as in reality ) and hordes of ponys jugs lightings will intercept them where they was designed for, HIGH. (as in reality).
JUst put spit factories deep inside nmy territory (inside cities) ...
and let the real War begin.....just imagine
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Good post Ren. Lot a truth in it.
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Originally posted by nopoop
Good post Ren. Lot a truth in it.
Agreed, excellent post Ren!
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Originally posted by Stoney74
I totally agree with this, and I think this type of gaming the game is exactly what (sorry for speaking for you) Corky is talking about. Personally, I'd love to see formations of 12 or more sets of bombers with tons of escorts, as long as we had notice they were on the way--fight's on! It'd almost be like an instantaneous FSO mission.
The only problem is it takes patience on the part of the players--a commodity that IMO is lacking among a large portion of the community. That's why my own personal hope is that CT can provide that type of play. The people that like that kind of play will have the opportunity, hopefully, to indulge in some more immersive play. I'll come back to the MA when I want to mix it up at 2,000 feet off the deck...
i think the main problem is the way HT deals with the furballers.
the HQ was, at one point a valid target, that had levels of damage that could be only slight... ie 1/4s. That was good, if the mission didnt do full damage maybe just darbar would be down etc.
However as the bomber missions got larger and better planned, the "fighters" of the game, instead of following suit, and creating larger defencive wings, and "fighting" (that thing they want so much) just whined on the BBS instead. HQ went to a 100% or nothing target, and support of hitting probably dropped 90% in one day. From that point on, support for large bombing raids on other strat targets started to fall also.
We STILL get the constant attacks (not in game, on the bbs) about bombers being so strong, etc etc etc... and its got to the point i RARELY get intercepted in this game, when back in 2003 you would probably not return from many single person (3 plane) runs... let alone a 3 to 4 person raid with escorts.... even those used to be risky. Now, one bomber can fly basically anywhere on the map and not feel troubled in anyway. But then if we hit our targets its "ch200: OMG the dam toolsheders spoild my game", while they all fly around on the deck unable to defend anything.
my point? well BOTH ends of the community are not like they used to be.
Bomber people dont feel the need for team work and large bomber escort missions (espcailly since there isnt the numbers to do it anymore).
and the Fighter people whine about it instead of fighting it, even if its now a much easier task to down bomber missions, as they are no longer "missions" in the sence that they are often single formations, flying without escort.
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Overlag your definition of a Furballer might be different than mine or your arch nemisis Lazs. What you still fail to understand is that a true furballer doesn't care about bombers. Heck I don't even bother with them, they can go right by. We don't care about HQ. We don't care about missions or winning the war.
All we want to do is fight other enemy fighters. We start "whining" as you put it when we are fighting between 2 bases and along comes the war heros to stop the fight. Fighter town is a good example of this. You'd have many there just furballing it out and for some reason griefers come along and try to shut it down. It just get's annoying.
So like I said, most of the guys you've been arguing with don't care about intercepting your bombers, or taking an airfeild. On the other hand, we don't care that you guys do it. We just want our own little spot (IE Fighter Town) to be left alone and free from the war.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Seems to me the whining and complaining far outweighs any constructive ideas on how to 'fix' things.
Way too many good people around here for there not to be good ideas too.
I'm not posting in the whine threads.
As for the second part of the quote, my ideas will never matter.
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wow ren, that was a very good post
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Originally posted by SuperDud
Overlag your definition of a Furballer might be different than mine or your arch nemisis Lazs. What you still fail to understand is that a true furballer doesn't care about bombers. Heck I don't even bother with them, they can go right by. We don't care about HQ. We don't care about missions or winning the war.
All we want to do is fight other enemy fighters. We start "whining" as you put it when we are fighting between 2 bases and along comes the war heros to stop the fight. Fighter town is a good example of this. You'd have many there just furballing it out and for some reason griefers come along and try to shut it down. It just get's annoying.
So like I said, most of the guys you've been arguing with don't care about intercepting your bombers, or taking an airfeild. On the other hand, we don't care that you guys do it. We just want our own little spot (IE Fighter Town) to be left alone and free from the war.
i thought you guys wanted to fight, and shoot planes down? yet you wont shoot down one of the easiest targets in the sky? hmm. You dont care about bombers, but you are quick to whine when they "ruin your game". Ruin theres and shoot them down.
all these comments are the reason i say DA... DA has no captureable bases and no need to bomb things.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
People forgot to have fun. Nasty to everyone around aint fun its stupid. Try helping the new guys. . . .The Community makes the game what it is. The community has to fix it when it burps. Splitting up arenas is a bandaid not a fix. Until we change our mindset nothing will change.
Damn, Ren, you had me at hello--and spot on too. :)
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Splitting up arenas is a bandaid not a fix. Until we change our mindset nothing will change.
spot on.
gameplay really hasnt changed, just a smaller scale now. that is the only difference ive seen. "hordes" still there, smaller scale for most part...HO's, cries of collsion model(myself included), "nice warps, cable puller", gang tard, runner, vulcher...its all still there.
only thing ive seen split arenas really do, is allow some of the "hangar queens" be used more competitativley in the EW and MW...good thing.
the split LW stuff...eh...dont really understand it, but I really dont care enough about it to try to understand it.
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Overlag,
Somehow I don't think you bothered to read anything I typed. No problem. But I would like to address your comments.
1) You mention the way HT deals with furballers. What is there to address? Two guys flying together see two more and engage them. They are so so and the kills don't come to either side for a while. A couple of more guys happen to be flying by and see the an opportunity to help out. They jump in but miss on the initial pass and begin turning. A couple more guys see what appears to be a gang bang of their countrymen jump into the fray. A couple die but now big deal the way the fight is going they'll be back to get revenge in a few minutes. What has developed is a good old fashioned furball. Other guys see it and jump in and it grows. Is this a bad thing? How should HT deal with these furballers?
2) Im not sure anyone has ever complained about someone bombing the HQ. Perhaps on the boards but anyone who's played for anytime doesn't particularly care if the dar is up or down. New folks might but they're having enough trouble trying to stay alive to worry about it too much.
3) As I already mentioned before most new folks don't have a clue how to tactically take down buffs. (do me a small favor. Read what I wrote. It might help explain some things) The Vet's that do will take a box down from time to time since it gets too easy they get bored and go elsewhere. If you want to address anything that HT looks at is making the game easier for the buff driver. While you haven't been around all that long you might remember there was a time when people actually had to REALLY calibrate the Nordon. Somehow I remember alot of flak (excuse the pun) about that and easy calibration came back. What does that say about how much HT listens to the players?
I'm not going to go back into what I wrote before but the issue is with the Community helping the Community and fixing iself. Not with HT making a change a week to satisfy this complaint or that complaint. It's about getting up flying and enjoying all the kewl things that AH2 has brought to the table for us to play with. It's about helping the clueless learn so they can teach other noobs as the years go by. This is what keeps the game going. Not "instantaneous gratification for me or I'll whine alot". Everyone started somewhere. Everyone learned. Some learned more if they had help.
What most people are missing is that everyone has a reason for being here. Think about that for a minute. How many players do you think pay the owners, out of their own pocket, their hard earned money to not enjoy themselves? If you know anyone send them to me and I'll sign them up for the "Ren Pay-ME Foundation". I'll even set up paypal to receive their donations. Everyone who "ups" is there to have fun. They may want to fly a fighter and get into a big fight, or take a tank over and duke it out with some other guys or bomb a field. It's all good! Bombing is nothing new. Furballs are nothing new. In the old days we did fighter sweeps. We even brought em over when we moved to AH. I remember our squad ran a fighter sweep for the heck of it, just looking for trouble in the backwoods of Bishland. We lucked out and ran into a huge group of P-47's that were heavy with everything you could put on it. They were up'n to pork and take a field. Who knows where. We didn't care. We hit em and forced them to drop their ord. They got caught with their pants down and we ended up with a running gunbattle where some of theirs got back and some of ours got home. Everyone, including those who got jumped had a great time.
What people have gotten away from is there is something for everyone in the arena. Be it a big or small arena. There is every conceivable fight availalbe in the arena. And guess what...a new guy can still shoot down and old vet. Be it by accident or by being in the right place at the right time. Anyone remember their first real dogfight kill? It was a damn fine feeling right?
IMHO we need to get our thoughts in order about why we are all here. It's not just to furball or bomb or tank. It's to get up and enjoy doing all of it whenever we want to and just have fun being here. A bad day here is 100% better than a good day at work. Don't you agree? If ya wanna make it continue then instead of whining how bad it is try helping the noobs get better. I'm a trainer. The most enjoyment Iget out of the game is when I get into a fight with some dude and get shot down or limp home after a good fight then learn it was someone I had helped to learn the game. Both of us won the fight. I won because I got a good fight and he won because he learned how to do it and had a good fight. We're not talking about "let me take you into the DA and show you how good I am". It's more about "lets get together and go over some things and see if we can both learn from it". Thats what being in a Community is all about. Lets get back to our roots of why we all play the game.
By the way, not everyone is restricted to buffs, fighters, jabo or tankin. You'd surprised at how many of the old vets climb into those things for a lil different kind of fun.
You know, if you limit yourself to just one thing you're missing out on what makes it good for all. There's alot of people who fly and who also volunteer to work to help everyone learn all about the game and all facets of it. You're paying for it and it's been made available to everyone who wants help. Learning how to do it all fairly well doesn't limit you to flying a certain way. it merely opens up more opportunities to do other things and have the satisfaction of doing them well.
So, if you want to put me into some handy little niche then yes, I'm a furballer and a toolshedder and tanker and whatever else happens to trip my fancy when I log into the game. Call me anything you want but I guarantee you'll find me somewhere up flying around enjoying myself. Folks need to learn to enjoy themselves and if they find they're having trouble or want to learn something else then come on up. The people in the Community are here to help. Let's ry and remember that.
Sorry if I've been long winded but we're a Community. That's a fact. IMHO it needs to be said and we need to get bacck on track.
Ren
The Damned and an AH2 Player
Originally posted by Overlag
1)i think the main problem is the way HT deals with the furballers.
2)the HQ was, at one point a valid target, that had levels of damage that could be only slight... ie 1/4s. That was good, if the mission didnt do full damage maybe just darbar would be down etc.
3)However as the bomber missions got larger and better planned, the "fighters" of the game, instead of following suit, and creating larger defencive wings, and "fighting" (that thing they want so much) just whined on the BBS instead. HQ went to a 100% or nothing target, and support of hitting probably dropped 90% in one day. From that point on, support for large bombing raids on other strat targets started to fall also.
We STILL get the constant attacks (not in game, on the bbs) about bombers being so strong, etc etc etc... and its got to the point i RARELY get intercepted in this game, when back in 2003 you would probably not return from many single person (3 plane) runs... let alone a 3 to 4 person raid with escorts.... even those used to be risky. Now, one bomber can fly basically anywhere on the map and not feel troubled in anyway. But then if we hit our targets its "ch200: OMG the dam toolsheders spoild my game", while they all fly around on the deck unable to defend anything.
my point? well BOTH ends of the community are not like they used to be.
Bomber people dont feel the need for team work and large bomber escort missions (espcailly since there isnt the numbers to do it anymore).
and the Fighter people whine about it instead of fighting it, even if its now a much easier task to down bomber missions, as they are no longer "missions" in the sence that they are often single formations, flying without escort.
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Great post Ren. So are the others I've read from you today.
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i hated the loss of the "old" bombsite... Its too easy now.
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Originally posted by Overlag
i thought you guys wanted to fight, and shoot planes down? yet you wont shoot down one of the easiest targets in the sky? hmm. You dont care about bombers, but you are quick to whine when they "ruin your game". Ruin theres and shoot them down.
all these comments are the reason i say DA... DA has no captureable bases and no need to bomb things.
I don't whine when they kill a fight. I just move on. Unless by "you", you mean furballers in general. As for shooting them down, it's boring to me. It's unexciting and unrewarding. Either trying to intercept the dive bombing lancs. or the 30K B24s is very tedious and boring. Whether I shoot them down, or they me, it's just not enjoyable. Now swirling around in a mass of fighters, killing and dying is a blast for me. You don't understand this, just as I can't understand the fun of winning the war. We are just interested in 2 different aspects of the game. You might enjoy the occasional furball but you yearn for more. I on the other hand just want to furball and not worry about people coming along and ruining it, it's that simple.
As for the DA, personally love it. I use to live in there before they nerfed it. I probably felt then, how you feel now. I actually took a break when they did that because it just wasn't as fun without the old DA. I wrote post not unsimular to yours, although I didn't attack people as much. But after writing 2 post or so I realized it wasn't going to change and moved on. I think maybe some of the guys on here should do the same. By now HT realizes how you guys feel. Unfortunatley for you guys, no matter how long/loud you protest, it's not going to change it back.