Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mad0Max on October 26, 2006, 02:35:59 PM

Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Mad0Max on October 26, 2006, 02:35:59 PM: I see that there are alot more problems with HTC, AH, and the forums than I thought.

So the question is this. With so many complaints and issues related to the split areas, treatment of paying customers, and quality of the game, should'nt everyone just stop for a minute(including HTC) and take a look at the complaints seriously for a change? People usualy have valid complaints and usualy can be quite irate when they post them so everyone should expect that and not give the typical reply of "stop complaining"

Stop fighting, listen to what some people have to say. The simple fact that there arent as many paying people online now with this wacky setup is a clear indication that something is going wrong.

I'm asking for people to take a good look and for HTC to say to their paying customers that this is the way the game is going to be from now on if HTC is not going to listen, or not going to try and help with the issues at hand. If this was an off the shelf game that we hosted on our computers at home than I would understand this mentality, but its not. AH is a MMOLG and HTC gets it's money from it's monthly customers, so we should have some say in which direction the game is headed.

I dont hate HTC, I dont hate the community, I just want the numbers back to the way they were before all this, when I could log on and see 650 out of 750 people in the main arena plus people in other arenas as well, those were the days where I didnt have to spend a half hour flying somewhere just to get shot down at the end of my trip. I really miss being able to spawn, get airborne and be in a fight with-in a few minutes if that.

But whatever, flame on.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Stang on October 26, 2006, 02:54:55 PM: And flamed you shall be...
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: RTR on October 26, 2006, 03:15:14 PM: I kinda suspect there is at least as many (if not more) online now as there was before. Only difference is they are spread over more arena's.

The old MA was stale and had become a daycare. It's dead Jim.

I have just recently (in the last few days) been able to spend some time online. I have to say, I like the changes.

RTR
Title: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: Soulyss on October 26, 2006, 03:27:19 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Mad0Max
AH is a MMOLG and HTC gets it's money from it's monthly customers, so we should have some say in which direction the game is headed.

Just because we pay for the service that HTC provides does not equal us having a say in how HT runs his bussiness. We are not share holders here... a closer analogy would be comparing HTC to somthing akin to a utilities company... we give them money and they provide a service for that. We have the choice to take our money elsewhere if we do not feel that the service is worth the cost. Or I suppose you can think of it as a subsription to a magazine... just because you pay them doesn't mean you can edit the issue, or write the articles.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: hubsonfire on October 26, 2006, 03:34:28 PM: Something to keep in mind, is that the most vocal types, both in game and on the boards, are a minority among HTC's entire customer base, and HTC is, and has always been, by my reckoning, far more interested in the happiness of its entire customer base, than it is with the comparatively small group who are represented on the forums.

FWIW, I haven't played any game where I got to order the developers around, and I haven't played one where the minority ruled. I don't think HTC's any different in that regard.

Yes, for the most part, I like the changes. Not saying things are perfect, but I think they're better than they were.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: DaPup on October 26, 2006, 04:55:40 PM: I still don't like some of the changes but after playing a little more lately I must admit that I'm beginning to come around.

I took a look at myself as a business owner and asked what I would do in Dales situation. I certainly don't think that Dale was at his desk in the morning drinking coffee and wondering how he could upset a portion of his client base. I would imagine that they had many discussions about what changes to make and why they needed to make them.

I'm sure that they are looking towards their future with these changes. I sat back and wondered what I would do if I noticed a part(s) of my company where I was unhappy with either the performance or products that I offered and if I would have the spine to risk some unhappy customers. The answer is yes, I have switched product lines when I felt it was the right thing to do regardless of some of my customers initial reactions.

Sometimes you must risk short term stability to attain your long term goals, especially in a business. I know they have a firm belief that they are heading in the right direction and I trust them to give me the best WW2 online sim game that they are capable of.

I've had issues that were on my PC end and called Skuzzy and he has helped me out, they are hands down the most customer friendly company I've ever encountered on an online game.

The game is really what you make of it not HTC, they supply the product but you must supply the fun.

just my $.05 (inflation)
Title: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: Max on October 26, 2006, 05:19:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Mad0Max
I see that there are alot more problems with HTC, AH, and the forums than I thought.

So the question is this. With so many complaints and issues related to the split areas, treatment of paying customers, and quality of the game, should'nt everyone just stop for a minute(including HTC) and take a look at the complaints seriously for a change? People usualy have valid complaints and usualy can be quite irate when they post them so everyone should expect that and not give the typical reply of "stop complaining"

OK. QUIT complaining.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: wolf8u on October 26, 2006, 07:18:38 PM: I wonder if McDonalds would change there menu back to the way it used to be, or if theyed just say Burger king is down the road. :t
Title: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: BugsBunny on October 27, 2006, 09:10:30 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Mad0Max
The simple fact that there arent as many paying people online now with this wacky setup is a clear indication that something is going wrong.

LW1:220
Lw2:170
MW :60
EW :45

Total: 495 (k, close. I dont remember the exact numbers)

For a Thursday night, not bad at all.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: lazs2 on October 27, 2006, 09:48:36 AM: some of us are playing more now than ever before... some of us really like to be able to fly early war planes without every HO newbie in a Lala7 or spit 16 fighting with 10 of his buddies to see who gets the lucky head on kill shot on us.

Some of us like not having the fighter hangers or cv taken out at the first sign of a good fight... some of us like to fight even numbers and guys that can do a little acm because they cared enough to learn.

Some of us like the fact that adults will switch sides to balance and don't milkrun undefended fields and call that "strat".

Some of us can't figure out why you just don't go to the late war arena where all those things still exist and be happy.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: Simaril on October 27, 2006, 10:03:52 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Mad0Max
...snip...

The simple fact that there arent as many paying people online now with this wacky setup is a clear indication that something is going wrong.

...snip....

HT -- who actually SEES and analyses the numbers -- has said that there has been steady growth, and that the numbers are HIGHER since the change. For example, he noted that one thursday in the last couple weeks had higher numbers than any in the past quarter. Last night I saw very good numbers in MW, best overall totals I can remember.

There is not a crisis.

HT is NOT ignoring us. He's made multiple adjustments when we're made suggestions that HE thought were good.

Do not confuse the confident application of a specialist's judgement with "not listening to the customers." When you need any specialty service, you dont take a poll -- YOU go to someone who knows what they're doing, and you give them the respect they've earned by getting good results in the past.

Treat HT that way too. I cannot think of ANYONE with more experience in online MMO simulations, and in running those businesses. You liked AH2 before the changes...so obviously his past decisions worked out well. Do you honestly think that the advice from interested amateurs should outvote the guy who's done it all, and who has the greatest interest in the product's success?

I'd hope none of us are that arrogant
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: storch on October 27, 2006, 10:10:39 AM: I like the changes very much. I believe the changes to be the single most significant and beneficial change HTC has implemented as long as I've been a subscriber.

the only people who seem dissatisfied are the toolshedders and the euros. the euro concerns I consider valid.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Airscrew on October 27, 2006, 10:28:24 AM: I am playing more now than I have in a long while. I actually got to fly a Spit 1 in the EWA and didnt have to worry about La's or P-51s. except for AvA I've never flown the Spit 1 in the MA.
I also have channel 200 up. People are saluting each other, discussing the fights, giving help. The change is good, its just going to take awhile for everyone to adjust
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: uberhun on October 27, 2006, 11:44:14 AM: I have never seen so much "wine production" with this change to the arenas. This game is a "Take it or leave It" product. All this @#$P about it was so much better before. Hitech is running a business, I am sure he did his do dilligance and research before he made the change. I for one like the change. "Because it is change". The old MA was so predictable. You new exactly what would happen day in day out. It was freaking boring. Eventually Combat Tour will be out, and that will more then likely test our abbillities in the cockpit. So maybe You "Ernest and Jullio Gallo" types should get some flight time in the early and mid arenas. to acclimate yourselves for the inevitable. I believe the segmenting of the MA is partly for that reason. my $.02 :furious
Respectfully
Title: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: Shuffler on October 27, 2006, 11:50:37 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Mad0Max
The simple fact that there arent as many paying people online now with this wacky setup is a clear indication that something is going wrong. snip

And you base this on??

Although I had misgivings about the original change, I do really like it now. With the quick adjustments and the attention to feed back that HT has shown..... I fear my addiction to Aces High will continue unabated.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: pluck on October 27, 2006, 11:59:54 AM: the only crisis that exists is in the mind.
Title: test
Post by: Triumph on October 27, 2006, 01:06:26 PM: test
Title: Re: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: whels on October 27, 2006, 01:40:30 PM: Quote
Originally posted by BugsBunny
LW1:220
Lw2:170
MW :60
EW :45

Total: 495 (k, close. I dont remember the exact numbers)

For a Thursday night, not bad at all.

495 now, before changes, we approached 800 in MA. lol you consider
300 less players not bad. somewhere around a 25 to 35% loss of players.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: BugsBunny on October 27, 2006, 02:00:05 PM: Quote
Originally posted by whels
495 now, before changes, we approached 800 in MA. lol you consider
300 less players not bad. somewhere around a 25 to 35% loss of players.

Never seen more than 500 on a Thursday night after 10pm central. I ve seen close 700 on a Sat night but not during the week. In anycase, the MA cap was 750 so aproaching 800 would be impossible. Then again, they are just numbers, 100 up 100 down does not matter as long as they support your point.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Eagler on October 27, 2006, 02:11:26 PM: what airscrew & storch said..

not to mention less warping in the newly divided rooms
Title: Re: Re: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: hubsonfire on October 27, 2006, 02:44:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by whels
495 now, before changes, we approached 800 in MA. lol you consider
300 less players not bad. somewhere around a 25 to 35% loss of players.

I call BS.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: hitech on October 27, 2006, 02:54:16 PM: Here is fridays peek numbers between 10 and 11 central. for that past weeks. starting at 2 weeks before the first arena limit change.

The 693 is the first friday after the change. And the 666 was last week end.

Fri 22:00 664.5 552.5 693 672.5 553 537.5 656 666

When ever comparing arena numbers, you have to always look at same days and same times. Most people just tend to compair what they rember as the big numbers vs what they see when they log on as a low case.

But like I said in previous post, even if we post numbers people just belive what they wish.

HiTech.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Shuffler on October 27, 2006, 02:59:54 PM: Hitech :aok
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: Simaril on October 27, 2006, 03:07:19 PM: Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
I call BS.

Ditto

....oops, looks like HT called the BS while I was typing!
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: mussie on October 27, 2006, 03:20:44 PM: (http://members.optusnet.com.au/vstrom/pics/EVIL%20WITHIN.JPG)

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
666..........
Its a sign ppl

Now we know why they used the quote "The Evil Within"

Run and dont stop running.... Oh wait most ppl already do that...

:noid

LOL.... HT
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: storch on October 27, 2006, 03:33:20 PM: Hitech be da debil, an AHII id deh chartoon craick.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: stephen on October 27, 2006, 03:41:32 PM: where are you guys?!!! 4 out of five players i speak to on voice dislike this new setup,,,do you guys even fly?

ickypoo, bag O snot and rotten cheese in the ole split arena O thon,,, boredome takes holdd.....lol flamers lolol:cool:
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Solar10 on October 27, 2006, 03:42:58 PM: I wonder who the .5 is in week 1, 2, 4 and 6?

No doubt someone will make a suggestion.

;)
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: The Fugitive on October 27, 2006, 04:03:59 PM: Quote
Originally posted by stephen
where are you guys?!!! 4 out of five players i speak to on voice dislike this new setup,,,do you guys even fly?

ickypoo, bag O snot and rotten cheese in the ole split arena O thon,,, boredome takes holdd.....lol flamers lolol:cool:

and these 4 out of 5 guys your talking to are flying at the time right? :rolleyes:

I guess it can't be all that bad if you guys are STILL flying.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: lazs2 on October 28, 2006, 12:12:54 PM: so stephen... you are saying that 4 out of 5 people that can stand to talk to you are whiners?

What I see are good fights and disgust at the griefers who toolshed.. it is allmost universal in the crowd I hang around with. They all wonder why a good fight gets killed by some unhappy griefer who kills the CV for instance.

On the plus side... I have seen people turn back from killing it at the request of the other 20 players enjoying the fight.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Mr No Name on October 28, 2006, 01:48:51 PM: how many actual player hours are being logged now? having similar numbers of logins isnt a difficult feat... how long are they staying?
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: NHawk on October 28, 2006, 02:06:46 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Mr No Name
how many actual player hours are being logged now? having similar numbers of logins isnt a difficult feat... how long are they staying?
I can't speak for everyone but here is my squad's data....

This Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 32:19:28 24:44:59 18:24:55 41:37:15 117:06:37

Last Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 116:54:41 33:18:46 41:32:06 90:29:40 282:15:13

Better than a 50% drop there.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: pluck on October 28, 2006, 02:10:03 PM: i'm sure HT has no way of knowing how much people are playing:rolleyes:
complain all you want, but HT is going to do what is best for the game as a whole, not what you consider the best. did you ever stop and think that people who you hang out with in the MA are probably like minded? and would it be reasonable to assume that the people who you talk to the most share similar views. so using your "soft" and biased facts are not reliable and not objective as compared to HTC global stats. just my opinion.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: E25280 on October 28, 2006, 04:33:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
how many actual player hours are being logged now? having similar numbers of logins isnt a difficult feat... how long are they staying?

Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
I can't speak for everyone but here is my squad's data....

This Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 32:19:28 24:44:59 18:24:55 41:37:15 117:06:37

Last Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 116:54:41 33:18:46 41:32:06 90:29:40 282:15:13

Better than a 50% drop there. [/B]
From a business standpoint, hours logged are irrelevant. You do not pay by the hour.

More subscriptions is the goal, not more hours.

If the changes succeed in that, HiTech has made a wise business decision.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Mr No Name on October 28, 2006, 06:16:39 PM: Yeah but when the customers are spending less time playing eventually they may decide the fee is no longer worth paying.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Mr No Name on October 28, 2006, 06:23:18 PM: just checked my own stats... typically 40 to 50 hours per month...

September - under 14 hours

October 17 hours

LMAO
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: stephen on October 28, 2006, 06:51:14 PM: killing cv's is the whole idea behind the game, lol look if it was suppose to be a furball game there would be nothing but ftrs...griefers??? you mean the folks that win resets....and im proud to count myself among them despite your animosity to killing cv;s......:aok
Title: Re: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: Nomak on October 28, 2006, 07:50:45 PM: Quote
Originally posted by BugsBunny
LW1:220
Lw2:170
MW :60
EW :45

Total: 495 (k, close. I dont remember the exact numbers)

For a Thursday night, not bad at all.

EW & MW ...... 105 players....... 105 players who do not want to fly in a the MA. Those people I am guessing were unhappy before the changes.

Dave
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: culero on October 28, 2006, 08:16:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by DaPup
snip
I certainly don't think that Dale was at his desk in the morning drinking coffee and wondering how he could upset a portion of his client base.

Yeah, it sounds more like a "sitting at his desk after a hard day of coading, drinking scotch and wondering how he could piss the dweebs off" deal :)

culero ~g,d,rlh!~
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Major Biggles on October 28, 2006, 08:20:10 PM: I'm amazed at how some of these dweebs persist in complaining, despite the fact that HT himself has destroyed all of their sensible arguments.

They seem to lack basic common sense...
Title: Re: Re: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: jon on October 28, 2006, 10:54:01 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Nomak
EW & MW ...... 105 players....... 105 players who do not want to fly in a the MA. Those people I am guessing were unhappy before the changes.

Dave

or could some of them be toolshedders looking to make the big drop unmolested:noid

and why is there a helocopter in :noid this smilie and not an airplane?:huh
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: sgt203 on October 29, 2006, 12:06:00 AM: Laz,

I too have been at fights where there was a CV and 10-20 guys furballing and having a good time myself included.

It also, on the other hand, only takes 1 "unhappy" furballer to drop ordinace into a town and it is no longer a furball is it????

I would think the minute that happens your CV is now fair game as this has become a capture attempt...

Is it disappointing when someone sinks your CV when your enjoying your furball yes

It is equally disappointing when someone starts to try and kill the town at the base your upping from to furball

And is vulching part of furballing???

The point is each player is going to play the way they like and no amount of posting is going to change that fact..

You can post 10,000,000 times about Furballers, toolshedders, landgrabbers whatever you want to call them ( and having read alot of these posts you in fact have) and its not going to change.. PEROID...

Your or my idea of fun is not everybody elses, to each their own...

It is what it is and it is not going to change nor should it for your benefit or mine...

I am simply having fun playing the game not by your standards of what you consider fun but my own...

If I happen to kill your CV???? Too Bad defend it!!!!

If you happen to kill the town at my base and captureit ??? too bad I should have defended it...

Its part of the game like it or not....
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: morfiend on October 29, 2006, 01:08:37 AM: personal I like the change,more GF's and ~~than ever....~~
Title: STFU
Post by: x0847Marine on October 29, 2006, 03:41:37 AM: What is so hard about minding your own fluff'n business people?

And where did this AH drama queen sub culture come from? crying about everything all the time?... man up.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: storch on October 29, 2006, 05:55:04 AM: Quote
Originally posted by culero
Yeah, it sounds more like a "sitting at his desk after a hard day of coading, drinking scotch and wondering how he could piss the dweebs off" deal :)

culero ~g,d,rlh!~
:rofl
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Simaril on October 29, 2006, 07:06:09 AM: Quote
Originally posted by MrNoName
how many actual player hours are being logged now? having similar numbers of logins isnt a difficult feat... how long are they staying?

Alert! Logic error!
HT's numbers are for players LOGGED ON, not for players loggING on. That means the time connected IS taken into account...A guy who used to stay on for hours but now is on only for a few seconds would be likely to miss the time window HT's evaluating. By using the same measurement tool before and after the change, from a statistical standpoint he's taking time connected into account both times!!

Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
I can't speak for everyone but here is my squad's data....

This Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 32:19:28 24:44:59 18:24:55 41:37:15 117:06:37

Last Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 116:54:41 33:18:46 41:32:06 90:29:40 282:15:13

Better than a 50% drop there. [/B]

And by HT's statistical measurement, it can be concluded that for every player who reduced time from dissatisfaction, there was at least one who increased time from increased enjoyment.
Title: Re: Re: Question for everyone
Post by: dragon25 on October 29, 2006, 10:34:35 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Soulyss
Just because we pay for the service that HTC provides does not equal us having a say in how HT runs his bussiness. We are not share holders here... a closer analogy would be comparing HTC to somthing akin to a utilities company... we give them money and they provide a service for that. We have the choice to take our money elsewhere if we do not feel that the service is worth the cost. Or I suppose you can think of it as a subsription to a magazine... just because you pay them doesn't mean you can edit the issue, or write the articles.

Great point! It goes with the comment I made earlier this morning in anthor post. HTC is a company, and that company is changing things up. One can not expect to keep 100% of customers happy 100% of the time. IMHO, it's OK to voice your complaints as paying customers, but, if HT dosen't change things based on your complaints/suggestions, keep in mind we as a community and "WW2 flying geeks" (a term borrowed from my wife) are darn lucky that this game even exists.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Mr No Name on October 29, 2006, 10:41:39 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Alert! Logic error!
HT's numbers are for players LOGGED ON, not for players loggING on. That means the time connected IS taken into account...A guy who used to stay on for hours but now is on only for a few seconds would be likely to miss the time window HT's evaluating. By using the same measurement tool before and after the change, from a statistical standpoint he's taking time connected into account both times!!

And by HT's statistical measurement, it can be concluded that for every player who reduced time from dissatisfaction, there was at least one who increased time from increased enjoyment.

Sim, no logic error. What hitech gave was simply a snapshot of players logged in, not the player-hour comparison. I am looking through records of other squadmates and more or less finding the same number ratios.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: hitech on October 29, 2006, 11:25:11 AM: Player Hour, and average players online are realy the same thing, Unless your trying to make the case that A lot more players are now playing AH, but each playing less.

Mr No Name: Ill state it planely, your assertion that the change has adversly effected AH stats , is just incorect.

HiTech
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Mr No Name on October 29, 2006, 11:31:17 AM: I will certainly take your word for it sir, I can only speak for myself and my circle of friends... I assume there are others who share my experience as well.
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Simaril on October 29, 2006, 05:10:11 PM: nevermind...nonsubstantive post removed
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Overlag on October 29, 2006, 08:10:12 PM: self deleted
Title: Re: STFU
Post by: BugsBunny on October 30, 2006, 12:18:51 PM: Quote
Originally posted by x0847Marine
What is so hard about minding your own fluff'n business people?

Well? Why dont you? :rofl
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Shuffler on October 30, 2006, 01:02:46 PM: As stated on RoboCop..... " I LIKE IT"
Title: Question for everyone
Post by: Guppy35 on October 30, 2006, 01:27:12 PM: Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
I can't speak for everyone but here is my squad's data....

This Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 32:19:28 24:44:59 18:24:55 41:37:15 117:06:37

Last Month....

Time hh:mm:ss 116:54:41 33:18:46 41:32:06 90:29:40 282:15:13

Better than a 50% drop there. [/B]

My squad

This month

Time hh:mm:ss 318:05:38 09:00:00 66:44:38 17:28:35 411:18:51

Last month

Time hh:mm:ss 179:44:30 10:29:59 82:34:56 05:46:59 278:36:24

Guess we made up the difference from your squad :)

Just checked for the fun of it. This is the most we've ever flown, with the 395 hours we flew in July being second. Could be it's about the attitude going into the game too? It is what you make it.