Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fariz on August 26, 2001, 01:33:00 AM

Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Fariz on August 26, 2001, 01:33:00 AM
My squadmate Leon was on the bussiness trip to Baku, so we met and spend a whole evening discussing tactics, planes etc.

While I was flying he was surprised that I am using gun zoom all the time in fighter. I told him, that all vets in AH using it regularly, because it greatly increase accuracy. But then, when I started remembering if I ever read it on forum, I found out that is it more my assumption than a knowledge.

So I am really curious if many people using gun zoom regularly and if they think it increased their gunnery percent. Will apreciate answers.

Thanks,

Fariz
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Karnak on August 26, 2001, 01:39:00 AM
I don't use it so much to improve my accuracy (frankly, my accuracy stinks), I use the zoom to be able to better see what my oponent is doing.

The more I know about what he is doing, the better my chance of positioning myself for the kill.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Nash on August 26, 2001, 01:46:00 AM
Yeah for me it's a position thing and not a gunnery thing. When the bad guy is within 1k I don't use zoom.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Dead Man Flying on August 26, 2001, 01:47:00 AM
I rarely use zoom once a fight gets down and dirty.  There are several reasons for that.

(1) I tend to shoot only under 300 yards.  At that distance, planes are already large enough to allow for accurate aim without having to zoom.

(2)  Zooming at that distance means that little stick inputs result in large relative movement changes in the gunsight view.  If the other plane is jinking around or otherwise being a nuisance, this actually leads to decreased accuracy for me, not greater.

(3)  Decreased SA resulting from a decreased field of vision.

On the other hand, I use zoom mode for long distance sniping.  If the other guy is attempting to run away and is, say, 500 yards out, I'll zoom way in for precise long distance shooting.

-- Todd/DMF
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 26, 2001, 01:50:00 AM
lol
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: flakbait on August 26, 2001, 01:55:00 AM
I only use zom to find out what's going on at a long distance. Once I'm within 4k I kill the zoom so I can see more of what all is going on. With vehicles I zoom constantly to find out where I am, where the enemy is, or what I'm shooting at. In the air I'll rarely use zoom, but when I'm driving a vehicle I use it constantly. Someone once asked for tips on SA and gave a list of what he did. One of those items was zooming in on a target to shoot. Some people can't do that because everything seems magnified, including control response. What you would normally see as a small lift of the nose suddenly becomes a sharp jerk up. Once he stopped zooming in to fire he got a little better.

I don't:
Zoom to fire in any aircraft
Use padlock
Use combat trim
Use auto-takeoff

I do:
Zoom to shoot from gunner positions/vehicles

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think my maker wants to hear from me right now. I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond

 (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/sig/delta6.jpg)
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: eskimo2 on August 26, 2001, 04:57:00 AM
I zoom.

eskimo
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Eaglecz on August 26, 2001, 05:52:00 AM
Hi Fariz

I use zoom only when im in position to fire, i cant see target clr on that green background. Usualy useing only small zoom, and sometime im loking around me with it in furball.

Look at some pic of old planes guys and you will see big aiming cross like a pilots head .. thats it . aim cross wasnt 5x5 cm  :rolleyes:

Orel
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Kweassa on August 26, 2001, 06:46:00 AM
I seem to recall reading the "normal" field of vision and the size of objects represented as it would be in real life is actually not our 'normal' state but rather when we use gun zoom. (use zoom, move head a back a bit and that would be probably the actual realistic field of vision)

 It seems only natural to use gun zoom.. I'm already a terrible gunner using gun zoom. Imagine what I'd be like without one  :)

ps) Besides, I use historic gunsights, and with  reduced object size rate(the 'normal' AH cockpit), the hairs and crosses blur out the aim instead of helping it.  :p
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Ghosth on August 26, 2001, 07:50:00 AM
(Shudder)  Zoom in the middle of a fight? Never!

If I'm 800 back on the deck of a pony and it's looking like it may take a while THEN I may zoom & try to get a hit.

Thats the only time I'd even consider it.

Get on their 6, ride em, (lag pursuit) wait till you've got a nice steady shot at 250 or less, bang,bang,bang. Look for next target.
 :)
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: SKurj on August 26, 2001, 08:26:00 AM
I just zoom to see what that baddie is up to.  I will sometimes zoom, when the badguy is running from me and i am sprayin at extreme range +)

I almost always use zoom to some degree when gunning a buff.


SKurj
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Nomde on August 26, 2001, 08:47:00 AM
I never use that blasted thing, distorts the scenery . Besides, real men (p47 dweebs) don't need it   :D

Nomde
63rd FS/56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"

"What's this button for?!?"

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: Nomde ]
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: GunnerCAF on August 26, 2001, 12:13:00 PM
I don't use zoom to shoot in a fighter, but I do all the time in a GV.  You have 2 forward views, default and foward.  My default view is in the default position.  My foward view is elevated, and I use an elevated sight.  My foward view is also moved foward as far as possible.  This way I can see the sight better.  I only use it when I am taking aim for a shot.

Gunner <CAF>
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: AKDejaVu on August 26, 2001, 01:19:00 PM
I never use zoom in a fighter.

AKDejaVu
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Buzzbait on August 26, 2001, 01:52:00 PM
S!

If one of the best in the Arenas uses zoom, I think I better start considering it.   :)
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Swoop on August 26, 2001, 03:05:00 PM
Moved my seat position all the way back in every aircraft.  Set zoom level so's I still get a fairly wide field of view.  Mapped zoom to a joystick button so I can zoom in and out at will during combat.  And I do.

The biggest shock is after having flown a bomber (zoom set to max for bombing) and then moving back to a fighter and forgetting to back off the zoom level.

 (http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: Swoop ]
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Rude on August 27, 2001, 04:47:00 PM
Never use it
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Pei on August 27, 2001, 04:51:00 PM
I almost never use zoom. Then again i couldn't hit a barn doot at 10 yards so maybe I'm missing something....
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: AKSWulfe on August 27, 2001, 04:56:00 PM
I use it all the time for shooting.

Of course I don't zoom all the way in though, I zoom in far enough so the bottom of the screen is the same as the line that runs through the Fw-190's dashboard.
-SW
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Animal on August 27, 2001, 05:02:00 PM
I used it for shooting.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Nash on August 27, 2001, 05:05:00 PM
I may have totally misunderstood this, but isn't the zoom view what your vision would really be like, and the unzoomed mode we have now is a concession for the limited field of view that the zoom gives?

If that's the case, I'm not sure why people don't use it unless it's some kinda joystick inconvenience thing. Because there are certain distances where only with zoom you can clearly see the aspect of the bandit, and are able to see a break to the left or right, climb, whatever... which helps you get into position. It would be crazy not to want to see what the other plane is doing unless this view is either unrealistic or its too troublesome to use zoom. I mean, once you get in close enough to be tangled up - zoom is useless and uneccessary anyways.

So... why are those of you not using zoom, not using zoom? Am I wrong? Is zoom unrealistic? Or is it some key mapping thing? If neither, do you just not want to be able to see at distances we are supposed to physically be able to see from?
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Karnak on August 27, 2001, 05:14:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash:
I may have totally misunderstood this, but isn't the zoom view what your vision would really be like, and the unzoomed mode we have now is a concession for the limited field of view that the zoom gives?

That is correct.

Any snobbery about "real men don't use it because its a cheat and they didn't have it in reality" should be rejected.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: SOB on August 27, 2001, 05:20:00 PM
When in a fighter, I only use it to see ground targets more clearly.  I've always thought it would screw me up more than help me...maybe I was wrong.

I use it all the time when I'm gunning tho'.


SOB
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: funkedup on August 27, 2001, 05:51:00 PM
I zoom for tracking shots or if I can't see him clearly (if it's dark or if he is green on a green background).  Also in the CT and TOD I zoom to ID planes with no icon.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: BlauK on August 28, 2001, 07:32:00 AM
I use gunsight zoom mostly for taking a better look at the clipboard map  :) ...very seldom in dogfight, maybe sometimes when trying to disturb a 700yds enemy with mgs. I zoom almost always when strafing GVs though.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Maniac on August 28, 2001, 07:46:00 AM
Use zoom at 1k and greater distances to see if hes turning or not...

Sometimes when shooting running ACīs that dont turn up good graphics wise towards the ground/water.

Regards.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Westy MOL on August 28, 2001, 07:51:00 AM
I zoom in for a better FOV better almost all the time. Escpecially when going after bombers. But I back off if I get into a scissors or slow turn fight with another fighter. Especially down low - although I've not done so quick enough quite a few times and I've augered in by accident  :)

 Westy
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: milnko on August 28, 2001, 10:11:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SOB:
When in a fighter, I only use it to see ground targets more clearly.  I've always thought it would screw me up more than help me...maybe I was wrong.

I use it all the time when I'm gunning tho'.


SOB

Same here I use it only for locating ground targets.

I USED to use it all the time too, but Drex and I were talking and he suggested I stop using it to gun with.

My gunnery improved.

Zoomed in view makes the smallest moves to my control stick seem enormous.

Plus I don't like the tunnel-like vision even if it's for a split second, as I will often check six in between bursts when firing on a target.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Wlfgng on August 28, 2001, 10:17:00 AM
I sometimes use zoom to see the opponents' aspect.  In close I don't use it due to restricted field of view.
I also use it to better locate ground targets from high up.. once I'm in on him I stop using it.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Rude on August 28, 2001, 10:34:00 AM
Nash....

You probably have a valid point...it at least sounds good :)

I do not use it due to the fact that my gunnery suffers...the lead and aiming points are different when zoomed...in addition, my js is set up such that when zoomed, I'm just not as smooth as when unzoomed. Perhaps I was zoomed in too much?

In all honesty, I never gave it much of a chance...perhaps I should map it to my js and give it a shot?

If you have any zoom settings advice, I'm all ears....and btw, thanks! :)
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2001, 12:41:00 PM
Never even entered my mind to use zoom for ATA combat, until I saw Udie doing it at last years con...it throws my peripherial, combat awareness off, so I just live with lousy gunnery, but end up flying home alive because of leaving it where it is due to SA.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Nash on August 28, 2001, 03:50:00 PM
Heya Rude. Nah... I can't gun with it in most cases. When I'm getting close enough (say 1k or less) zoom is no good for me. But at say 1.5k and greater, you can clearly see what the bandit is up to only if yer zoomed. So I use that to get into better position (about 1/2 way zoomed in). Once he's within' 1k you don't need it to see what he's doing, and I find it impossible to hit anything when zoomed in unless he's flying perfectly straight. But at those greater distances it *really* helps you to position yourself for the fight.
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: hblair on August 28, 2001, 04:03:00 PM
I never zoom in a fighter, except for boom & zoom, but that's a whole 'nother topic.  :)
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Rude on August 28, 2001, 04:42:00 PM
Thanks Nash...will give it a shot...especially if it helps me kill you and that pesky niki you drive around in :D
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: Rocket on August 28, 2001, 04:56:00 PM
I zoom to see where the con is going when I am closing in.  I don't use in guns range, like Rude it really messes my aim up.  I usually end up over correcting back and forth.  My gunnery sux bad enough let alone zooming.  That and I can't track the con close as he changes from straight view to up/angle or angle view.  But it is helpful as all get out setting up the con from a distance  ;)

S!
Rocket
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: AKSWulfe on August 28, 2001, 05:02:00 PM
I have my zoom customized so that on the 190A5 the line that runs through the dashboard is just above the bottom of my monitor. It's not nearly as jittery/bouncy as the default position and doesnt' restrict your vision as much.

The zoom is universal across all planes, so if you want to try my setting just quickly launch a 190A5 offline and set it up that way.

I only use it because I have a 15" monitor, damn near impossible to see things sometimes.

I only use zoom when I'm closing behind a bogey or have some shot from behind him or 90degrees into his topside.

Otherwise I use default forward head position because it simply allows for faster view transition.

I have the zoom key mapped to the red thumb button on the X35T, so I can easily zoom in and out.
-SW
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: mason22 on August 28, 2001, 05:02:00 PM
<mazda>  "zoom zoom."
Title: To zoom or not to zoom
Post by: eskimo2 on August 28, 2001, 06:17:00 PM
I think it gives a realistic veiw and helps gunnery in many situations.  I use zoom in ground attack and longer air to air shots.

eskimo