Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: soupcan on October 29, 2006, 11:27:31 PM
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MW arena sometimes has some really great battling going on.
However when 1 country starts getting overwhelming odds the
overall gameplay suffers.
As an example on Oct 29 at approx 19:00 CST MW had:
bish -11
knight-23
rook-38
over the course of the next hour 15 more players logged on
and all decided to play for the rooks.
I don't get it, not 1 of these 15 guys thought "hey this is a little
out of wack, maybe i should fight for the bish for an hour".
numbers then became:
bish-8
knight-24
rook-53
which becomes even more laughable when the majority of these 53 rooks
are hitting the bish.
Are players so tied to their chess piece that they would rather "fight"
(and i use the term loosely) 7 of US against 1 of THEM? And do these
same people think this is good action?
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This needs work for the new arenas to "work"
Usually Rook, but in this situation, I would definitely switch sides...sigh...
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I think it should just be two sides: Queens and Pawns... then nobody would want to be on any side :lol
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The higher the advantage, the more loyal the players, for the most part.
The return of ENY, once HT sorts that out, will hopefully improve things. I cannot wait. :t
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I'd want to be a queen!
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bish-8
knight-24
rook-53
Yer.... bit of a bugger that
I (rook) looked in and logged out. I looked in because LW blue was being rolled similarly by a load of bish. Twas after midnight UK so went to bed.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I'd want to be a queen!
Come lay on mit couch. Zee meaning of the zee thought ist very interesting. vhy do you use zee vord "Want" misconceptualy ?
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Yeah Soup, good points made, especially after last night which was crazy! When I logged in around 1030pm (Italy time, +6 EST), it was still late afternoon for most. When I got in there it was heavy Rook populated and with only 3 bases left for a reset I just stayed til then. Once the reset all the AK's jumped to Bish as they were still ow numbers. Even when we jumped and were helping out you, Helm, Goth, and Lazer we were still outnumbered roughly 3 to 1 with 20 Bish, 40 Knit, and 60-70 Rook most the time. The lame part was is the steamrolling they did porking troops at every field for what seemed like 4 sectors. In under 2 hours we were down to about 12 bases already.... what is that 4... 5 resets this weekend? Well whatever, I leave here in about 8 days and will be stateside again and will be on 'normal' time for my fellow AK's! :aok
Was fun Soup... see you in the skies!
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Originally posted by soupcan
.....
Are players so tied to their chess piece that they would rather "fight"
(and i use the term loosely) 7 of US against 1 of THEM? And do these
same people think this is good action?
In a word, yes.
Be careful...having gone down this road before, I have found that questions like this are met with "how dare you tell us how to play," "you're trying to punish us for being organized," and "we have ALWAYS been ."
If you ask again, you may be held down and tattooed on your forehead with "Ignore me I'm a furballer."
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this is happening in most arenas... the only slightly stable is LW's because once over a certain amount of numbers the odd 20 or so more doesnt really matter, and the two low sides often end up attacking the stronger one.
the other night someone from EW called into both LW arenas asking for knit help since they was down to last few bases and only had something like 12 plays vs 24/20 or so rooks/bish. I joined in and started well thought out missions, with diversions from the real attack, however i kept loosing connection so my goon would drop almost as soon as getting to the base :mad: :lol
they held back the reset though.
maybe if you see the numbers are very low, try PM'ing friends you know that are in other arenas? or even joinging LW1/2 and asking around? A few will probably leave and come over. It might help.
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I was in the MW too yesterday as a Knight.
Rooks outnumbering Bishops and Knights. Rooks far ahead in fields. Bishops near to be resetted.
I decided to help the Bishops by sweeping over a Rook base.
I like this kind of informal alliance. :)
What would help in this are 3 different icon colors for 3 different countries.
We can identify friendlies. Why not 2 different enemies?
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Originally posted by Zwerg
We can identify friendlies. Why not 2 different enemies?
If you pay attention to chesspiece in icon, the two are usually pretty distinguishable.
I have in the past "worked together" with red icons, either with agreement on chat/private, or through simply helping the guy and obviously not attacking him, hoping he returns the favor.
Three country fights (with or without alliancing) are always fun :).
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two things...
I agree that people should switch to balance the fights (I do) and...
The numbers totals don't allways have anthing to do with good fights. I was a knit and we had superior/even numbers over the rooks at the fight I was at for instance... the rest of the players were all avoiding each other in any case.... you couldn't have found em on the dar if you wanted to.
numbers are local...that is all that counts. If the fight is even then it is good if the numbers are even and no one is fighting even fights... it is a bust.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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It probably has a lot less to do with loyalty to a country than it does with the quest for the "easy button".
The assumption that people are choosing a country strictly from loyalty is flawed in that it allows little or no consideration for the fact that some log on with the country with greater numbers in order to ensure they have the advantage.
The assumption that people log on for a real fight to see how well they fly is left over from a long gone era of flight sims when flight sims were very different from other games in their player base. The day when flight sims like Aces High and previously Air Warrior were populated by aircraft/warbird/history enthusiasts who were looking to fly and fight like the real fighter pilots of history did are gone. Sure, some of the diehards from the "old days" remain, and some of the new players fit the old mold, but a large number do not, probably a good sized majority. Expecting "gamers" to look for or work for an "even" game is probably asking too much. ENY limiting was something of a solution, although it brought about plenty of its own issues.
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Funny thing is the current setup has actually increased numbers lop-sidedness, and it's the one thing that has been pointed out over and over again.
It's still the number one problem/sympton of the current setup HT has yet to (or wont) comment on.
I actually suggested that if you were a member of one of the lower sides and you try to login into a capped arena you should be allowed in.
If you are a member of the highest numbered side you get bounced to the other arena as it is now.
It could be totally transparent to prevent people swapping sides to get into an arena then swapping back to their original side once in.
{edit} Thinking about it, that wouldn't work either - you would get a second arena with a bigger numbers of players from the bounced country.
But whats worse -
One arena slightly out of whack
or
two arenas out of whack.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I'd want to be a queen!
I thaught you allready were.
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Can't fault Kev here
"Funny thing is the current setup has actually increased numbers lop-sidedness, "
and
But whats worse -
One arena slightly out of whack
or
two arenas out of whack.
any advance on 4 ?
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kev.. no matter how unbalanced the overall numbers are....
I am finding more good, fairly even fights in a night than I did in a week or two of the old MA 3 potatods all hiding from each other gameplay.
Lots of good, lasting fights to be found in the early and mid war arena with peer pressure actually working some for a change.
lynx... I do not claim to know what happens in euro time. I am sorry if it doesn't work out for euros... perhaps no holds barred after a certain U.S. time? I wouldn't want to be part of that but... I am not a euro.
unrelated... why do you suppose there is no euro game to compete with AH?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Well lazs would have to say -
a) It may be working for the EW
b) "Sometimes" works for the MW, but as has been shown in this thread, more often it isn't.
c) Isn't working in the LWs
I would guess as the numbers of arenas increase so will the numbers problem.
Basically a fix for the old MA has resulted in the same problem but magnified in 3 out of 4 arenas.
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that doesn't make sense kev... we are all finding better fights except the mega squads who never wanted good fights to begin with..
No matter how many people we get... smaller arenas are healthier.. that is the point. people get to know each other better so tend to be a little more polite and less into griefing..
I say that if the problem is getting worse for you then you are probly part of the original problem and are taking that attitude with you into the new arenas.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Game against my long time on-line allies and fellow Pigs?... nah. This is HTs problem to address, not mine.
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Originally posted by lazs2
that doesn't make sense kev... we are all finding better fights except the mega squads who never wanted good fights to begin with..
No matter how many people we get... smaller arenas are healthier.. that is the point. people get to know each other better so tend to be a little more polite and less into griefing..
I say that if the problem is getting worse for you then you are probly part of the original problem and are taking that attitude with you into the new arenas.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
We are all finding better fights?
Pretty broad brush there, suggest you re-think as it's patently untrue.
Part of the problem - Perhaps, if that means the option of not getting into one LW arena because of caps and booted into another where my country is vastly outnumbered, yup I'm part of the problem.
Please don't give the old well theres the MW and EW arenas - If I wanted to go there I'd go there first.
In all honesty - Our squad has started doing our squad nights in the MW because we can't our our "mega-squad" LOL (10 guys or so out of 32 online squad night) into the one of the LW arenas.
An NO we won't switch sides, so it works for and against us depending on numbers.
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How about this:
Players that have never, ever changed countries are logged into THEIR country when they login.
Players that have switched countries in the past (this could have a threshold set on it along with a time span) would be assigned to the country with the least number of players on it.
This way the free agents would not have to log in, see the numbers, and switch countries....it's done for them.
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Originally posted by Donzo
How about this:
Players that have never, ever changed countries are logged into THEIR country when they login.
Players that have switched countries in the past (this could have a threshold set on it along with a time span) would be assigned to the country with the least number of players on it.
This way the free agents would not have to log in, see the numbers, and switch countries....it's done for them.
Would work with one addition -
Once in the arena disable their ability to switch sides again, just to prevent people logging in under one country then switching once inside.
If they want to change they have to logout of the arena and take their chances when logging back in again.
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Originally posted by lazs2
that doesn't make sense kev... we are all finding better fights except the mega squads who never wanted good fights to begin with..
No matter how many people we get... smaller arenas are healthier.. that is the point. people get to know each other better so tend to be a little more polite and less into griefing..
I say that if the problem is getting worse for you then you are probly part of the original problem and are taking that attitude with you into the new arenas.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
LOL!!!! it really doesn,t get any better than this. the best entertainment on the web!! does ht read this guys stuff?
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Lazs is a highly respected PR officer, show him some courtesy! :furious
:D
the best way to help is to BALANCE THE SIDES. its not hard, just type {dot}country 1,2 or 3, which ever has the least numbers.
in the old MA i understand people wanting to fly for one country, but now... you can be knights in LW1 and Bish in MW, both at the same time.
Its nobody's ffault but the players if there is unbalance.
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i don't know how assigning players who frequently switch to even numbers is helping anything, they already do that willingly, they are not the issue. the issue comes into play when there is a large number imbalance and people refuse to switch. whatever the reason it doesn't matter, people who refuse to switch are part of the problem when it comes to number imbalances. eny was designed to combat this, and guess which people have a problem with that. so you can assign all the reasons you want to not switching, yet the problem remains. HT in the past has tried to implement features into the game to keep numbers more even, yet that too is met with many complaints. so what is left for things to try, just auto assign everyone like in almost every other game that i can think of? ya, that would go over well. it just seems many avenues regarding this issue have run their course and it comes down to the community to make this issue right. a quick glance at the bbs and i'm sure that won't work either.
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Geez -
When are you guys going to realise -
For whatever reason it doesn't appear like most people want to change sides.
Various incentives have been tried none have worked.
So take it as a given it isn't going to happen.
The question should be -
How should the arenas be setup so we can get as balanced numbers as possible in each one, given that most won't change sides.
It obvious the current setup DOESN'T.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
Its nobody's ffault but the players if there is unbalance.
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So it's still on me to play fair.
I can't expect HTC to fix it as there are too many folks who as SaVaGe pointed out, want the easy button. There is comfort and safety in the horde.
I can't change it. Country cap limits would be about the only thing that could help if people aren't going to change on thier own. But chances are that will only increase the whining about not being able to play their way.
So I can't worry about it anymore. I do my part by going to low numbers side with my squad.
Not sure what else I can do outside of that.
I'm still finding all kinds of fun, and I'm still not quitting :)
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Originally posted by pluck
i don't know how assigning players who frequently switch to even numbers is helping anything, they already do that willingly, they are not the issue. the issue comes into play when there is a large number imbalance and people refuse to switch. whatever the reason it doesn't matter, people who refuse to switch are part of the problem when it comes to number imbalances. eny was designed to combat this, and guess which people have a problem with that. so you can assign all the reasons you want to not switching, yet the problem remains. HT in the past has tried to implement features into the game to keep numbers more even, yet that too is met with many complaints. so what is left for things to try, just auto assign everyone like in almost every other game that i can think of? ya, that would go over well. it just seems many avenues regarding this issue have run their course and it comes down to the community to make this issue right. a quick glance at the bbs and i'm sure that won't work either.
Yup :aok
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Originally posted by Guppy35
So it's still on me to play fair.
I can't expect HTC to fix it as there are too many folks who as SaVaGe pointed out, want the easy button. There is comfort and safety in the horde.
I can't change it. Country cap limits would be about the only thing that could help if people aren't going to change on thier own. But chances are that will only increase the whining about not being able to play their way.
So I can't worry about it anymore. I do my part by going to low numbers side with my squad.
Not sure what else I can do outside of that.
I'm still finding all kinds of fun, and I'm still not quitting :)
..... and Yup! :aok
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haha, I never had so much fun getting gangbanged. :lol :aok
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Originally posted by Kev367th
We are all
An NO we won't switch sides, so it works for and against us depending on numbers.
And that there is the root cause of the problem.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
And that there is the root cause of the problem.
Actually the root of the problem -
People live in a fantasy land.
I would think by now that someone at Grapevine would have realised that for whatever reason(s) the majority of players won't switch sides.
Once that is realised and accepted you then logically move onto -
How do we set the arenas up to get a balanced number of players in them.
Rather than -
How do we change the ways of 100's of players.
It's far easier to tinker with arena settings than change the ways people play the game.
Having to accept that there may be one arena that ends up lopsided no matter what can be done.
But at least its better than 3 or more lopsided arenas.
MW - I'll bet once ENY is re-introduced the numbers will drop again.
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Originally posted by lazs2
lynx... I do not claim to know what happens in euro time. I am sorry if it doesn't work out for euros... perhaps no holds barred after a certain U.S. time? I wouldn't want to be part of that but... I am not a euro.
unrelated... why do you suppose there is no euro game to compete with AH?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
The time difference here is 5 to 8 hrs ahead. Worse time for EU players is early morning when it's 1am to 5am US time. Midnight for me is early evening for you. Player numbers are decent then.
If 1 arena is capped out with 1 side outnumbering the others then it follows that the next arena gets lob sided also. Example:- 150 bish 70 knights 90 rooks. Next arena 100 rooks 80 knights 35 bish and repeat that all the way to TA.
Brits good at inventing and making stuff but absolutely useless when it comes to marketing. You lot have a tendency to see the potential and make good of it.
I did think about buying "fighter Op's" some 5 years back when warbirds was about to ditch it. Didn't take it past the "think" stage.... British
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Originally posted by LYNX
The time difference here is 5 to 8 hrs ahead. Worse time for EU players is early morning when it's 1am to 5am US time. Midnight for me is early evening for you. Player numbers are decent then.
If 1 arena is capped out with 1 side outnumbering the others then it follows that the next arena gets lob sided also. Example:- 150 bish 70 knights 90 rooks. Next arena 100 rooks 80 knights 35 bish and repeat that all the way to TA.
Brits good at inventing and making stuff but absolutely useless when it comes to marketing. You lot have a tendency to see the potential and make good of it.
I did think about buying "fighter Op's" some 5 years back when warbirds was about to ditch it. Didn't take it past the "think" stage.... British
Good example of what I have been saying for a while -
The current setup has taken the old MA occasional very lopsided sides and magnified it across most arenas on a daily basis.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Actually the root of the problem -
People live in a fantasy land.
I would think by now that someone at Grapevine would have realised that for whatever reason(s) the majority of players won't switch sides.
Once that is realised and accepted you then logically move onto -
How do we set the arenas up to get a balanced number of players in them.
Rather than -
How do we change the ways of 100's of players.
It's far easier to tinker with arena settings than change the ways people play the game.
Having to accept that there may be one arena that ends up lopsided no matter what can be done.
But at least its better than 3 or more lopsided arenas.
MW - I'll bet once ENY is re-introduced the numbers will drop again.
Just curious Kev. Why won't your squad switch as needed to help the cause?
I'm of the opinion that established squads, of which yours is one, help set the tone for everyone. The notion of loyalty to a chess piece seems to be secondary to the friends in a squad. Why not just make it, as we do in the 80th, low numbers is where we start, and go from there?
Not meant as a shot, just wondering what the thinking is?
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Just curious Kev. Why won't your squad switch as needed to help the cause?
I'm of the opinion that established squads, of which yours is one, help set the tone for everyone. The notion of loyalty to a chess piece seems to be secondary to the friends in a squad. Why not just make it, as we do in the 80th, low numbers is where we start, and go from there?
Not meant as a shot, just wondering what the thinking is?
Various reasons Dan, some of which are a little too controversial to go into on the BB's.
Shall we just say there are specific reasons why we would never go back to a certain country, even temporary. Last visit to them left a bad taste.
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Some incentive for side balance is already in the game, based on perks. It has limited effect. So, what are some other ways?
I think the best way would be for an adaptive system (basically a control system -- like a thermostat for your furnace) that adds incentive until the imbalance goes away.
You could do the following every 15 minutes. If a side has 10% more players than the middle-player side, add five perk points to all its perk aircraft and add 5 perk points to its two lowest-ENY non-perk aircraft (making them perk). If a side has 10% fewer players than the middle-player side, subtract 5 perk points from all its perk aircraft (eventually making some of them non-perk).
It's like a thermostat in that, as long as there is imbalance above a threshold, changes are pumped into the system. Once there is no imbalance, no changes are made. If there are imbalances over threshold the other way, changes are done in the other direction.
It is a self-balancing system. It is based on perks, which is already a part of the game (so no radical rethinking is needed on players' parts). It enhances the use of perks and ENY. It will help with diversifying the planes people fly. It might be easier to put it into the Aces High system as the system already has code in it that adjusts perks periodically.
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Perk costs already go up and down depending on numbers.
In fact if your ENY'd you can't get perk stuff anyway (wouldn't matter if a Spit 14 cost 1000's of perks, you still couldn't up one), so it doesn't seem like your idea would make any difference at all.
Still say the answer is a way of setting up the arenas to get balanced numbers in them, while still letting people fly for their chosen country.
No I don't know how.
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Originally posted by soupcan
Are players so tied to their chess piece that they would rather "fight"
(and i use the term loosely) 7 of US against 1 of THEM? And do these
same people think this is good action?
No doubt SOME are, in fact there are some skwads that will kick you out for playing another chess-peice even if your reasoning was to make the game more even. But I think a lot of what you are seeing is the fear of a virtual death.
Log onto the arena and see one side with more numbers already attacking a weaker opponent and join the side with numbers? Only reason I can think of other than a dictator for CO is that you'd rather fight with a horde over some scraps than have to go into a heads-up even-steven fight. I think that mentaility fits a large percentage of the players.
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This will never happen ...
Still say the answer is a way of setting up the arenas to get balanced numbers in them,
as long as this is true ...
while still letting people fly for their chosen country.
True balance can only be achieved by us choosing to balance ... and there is a very large contingent that has made it quite clear that switching sides to achieve balance is out of the question and will never be an option.
The only other way true balance can be achieved is via HT coading in a mechanism that will distribute people evenly across an arena but this would be violated ... while still letting people fly for their chosen country ... which I don't think he would even consider/
So what you are asking for is truly impossible.
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Kevin, the answer is simple, stop dynamically gerimandering the arenas. The old MA wasn't perfect but some squads did move about to side-balance.
As it is setup right now, the only way an arena would maintain balance is by a fluke. HTCs only option would be to dynamically assign pilots to a country everytime they logged in, effectively disbanding every squad in the game. THAT would be the absolute undoing of the game in one fell swoop.
You cannot make the world a fair place no matter what you do. There will always be better players, people who have more friends that want to fly with them at any given time. Perhaps HTC should try more carrot and less stick with this behavior modification experiment. Granted the stick works but it reminds me of the old joke "The beatings will continue until morale improves!" Instead of figuring out new ways to punish those with a numerical advantage, or those who want to fly as a group, - FOR SOME - (many could care less) the appeal of perhaps even higher perk multipliers could help encourage side balancing.
I still say the real answer to this is a robust, separate furballers and GVers arena for those not wanting to win the war.
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Well just about the rest of the squad chimed in so I might as well add to the sentiment they have voiced here.
In general the fights I've found lately have been far better than what I had grown used to in the old system. The single biggest change has been the increase in arena community I have seen. I've actually had some great banter and conversations with people I just got done fighting. Hell, someone actually apologized for ramming me the other night. Didn't really bother me when it happened and I was surprised as hell to get an apology for it. Was actually kinda humorous. Was looking behind me @ a spit switched to forward view and all I can remember seeing on my FE was a giant "F4U" icon. Turns out a squaddies was dragging the F4U and was trying to clear my tail and took him right into me. The F4U aplogized, I told him not to worry about it and we both had a good laugh over the matter.
I'm talking more and meeting more people in the new arenas more and more often. People that I remember and will say hello to next time I log on. The arena is what we make of it gents, it's up to us. HTC has provided a place and format where we all can have a lot of fun. Now it's up to us to make it such a place.
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
I still say the real answer to this is a robust, separate furballers and GVers arena for those not wanting to win the war.
And how is this the answer? All it does is suggest that there is really only one style of play for the 'masses' while the others need to take their ball and go elsewhere.
How does this help?
There has to be a way to make this game something where all the styles of play interact and in essence need each other to make the game fun.
Anyone claiming furballing is the only way is wrong, just like someone claiming winning the war is the only way is wrong.
Both involve cycles with goals at the end. One involving air combat where the cycle ends with someone winning the fight, or in essence a small war. The fight is then reset and they try again.
How is this different from 'winning the war' where the conclusion of the 'war' involves starting over again at the beginning?
Define places on the map that are intregal to winning the war, but will take combined air, ground, sea, tactical air, bombing, etc to 'win', not just massive hordes attacking nothing.
This has to be doable.
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Dan,
When ya say "The rest can go play elsewhere" that isn't what I mean. There are a couple of different camps of style of play.
What I was looking for was a way that both camps can have pretty much exactly what they want. What I am stressing is that without the large MA, Aces High is nothing more than a box game that you pay $179.40 per year for.
I really DO want the furballer guys to have a great time as us win the war types have had for ages. If I was bored enough, I might even join the furballers arena. I have been to fighter town and tank town a few times.
I believe that HTC could do the large arena with a great deal of success simply because no-one else is doing it. The large MA of 2 months ago was the reason we had so many new subscriptions and the arena began a new growth spurt.
Imagine the marketing potential of a Fighter arena? I don't see either camp as a 'lesser' entity but as I said before there is a CLEAR disconnect between both play styles. Both Arenas would have an opportunity to petition for certain rules/restrictions that would enhance that style of gameplay.
I don't believe the old MA was perfect but It HAD one thing my beloved Pacific Fighters will never have... Large scale battles. Right now I could join any of some 50 - 128-player rooms on the net (Il2-AEP-PF-FB) The reason I don't play that game only is because of my squad and my squad could stay here because we could all fly together, no rolling planeset (Only reason we left WB) And we could do all of this because of the scale of the MA!
I don't gripe for the sake of griping, I am doing so to say there ARE other solutions to reach the goal of keeping this game healthy. I believe we ALL want that. You cannot say that the arenas are not now even more unbalanced most of the time BECAUSE of the split.
I say if you're gonna force a split, do it based on player preference, not arbitrary numbers... That way everyone is happy. Like I said grapevine... More Carrot, less Stick!
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Originally posted by lazs2
unrelated... why do you suppose there is no euro game to compete with AH?
because AH is in a niche market..... hence the reason we have to pay per month, unlike the millions that play HL2 / BF2 etc?
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Mr No Name: Apears that head still isn't sore.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Mr No Name: Apears that head still isn't sore.
HiTech
LMAO well, at least I haven't resorted to guaranteed PNG statements! I am just making suggestions I believe to be helpful, nothing more. Better to voice an opinion before I stop writing checks, right?
I'd like to see the game stay healthy so that I can stay here. I am sure you have received some letters on this very matter. (One of mine included!)
I mean, I am not here trying to organize a boycott or posting links for others to join a different game... No sir, I am making suggestions BECAUSE I would like to stay. :D
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Various reasons Dan, some of which are a little too controversial to go into on the BB's.
Shall we just say there are specific reasons why we would never go back to a certain country, even temporary. Last visit to them left a bad taste.
I'm going to call BS. There are 2 countries, and you had an issue with people (or just a single person) on one, so you won't help the other?
Like many people, you've arbitrarily settled on some idiotic rationale or other, and that's why we have severe imbalances.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'm going to call BS. There are 2 countries, and you had an issue with people (or just a single person) on one, so you won't help the other?
Like many people, you've arbitrarily settled on some idiotic rationale or other, and that's why we have severe imbalances.
people build friends in countries from day one they join AH... i have more people i can trust on knits... and maybe some on bish (due to a brief stint with Hornets)... rooks ive never had much luck with.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Like many people, you've arbitrarily settled on some idiotic rationale or other, and that's why we have severe imbalances.
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If you want to know what is wrong and why, you need only read this thread. The reason nothing will change is people in this thread, who represent both sides of the issue, say the same thing: "YOU are the problem, and if only you'd see things my way, and change how YOU play, everything would be fine and balanced". And they offer no middle ground.
And so, nothing will change, each side blames the other, and no compromise or progress will happen.
Combine that with the never ending quest for the easy button, and you get the recipe for long term gloom and doom.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Like many people, you've arbitrarily settled on some idiotic rationale or other, and that's why we have severe imbalances.
I love the way the other side resorts to name-calling when they have lost the intellectual argument.
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CVH I thought I offered some decent alternatives.
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If calling a spade a spade is what you consider to be "losing", I feel sorry for you.
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:rofl
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Originally posted by Soulyss
The arena is what we make of it gents, it's up to us. HTC has provided a place and format where we all can have a lot of fun. Now it's up to us to make it such a place.
exactly!
:aok
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i dont mind fighting as the underdog, hell im a knit for god sake..... being outnumberd is great for working as a team, and getting perkies.
i dont really like being on the side with too many players, and i dont like hitting the side with less numbers... hell i went EW today (and sucked like ive never sucked before!) because both LW's was 2 sides ganging the one with least numbers.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'm going to call BS. There are 2 countries, and you had an issue with people (or just a single person) on one, so you won't help the other?
Like many people, you've arbitrarily settled on some idiotic rationale or other, and that's why we have severe imbalances.
Well even with relatively even numbered sides ( B 40+/R 50+/K40+) you still dont get what you'd like to class as fair and balanced.
Look at tonights LW1, this wasn't for a minute or so, was like this the 3 hours I was there...
(http://www.cyberonic.com/~kreed/map.jpg)
Sort of blows the even numbers = fair and balanced theory, doesn't it.
Was basically 50 Bish v everyone else.
The reasons are valid why we wouldn't goto this certain country, whether you like it or not.
No it wasn't a single person but the attitude of some of the larger more veteran squads.
Put it this way - it's the only country I've seen deliberately thin out a cap to try to encourage uppers so they could vultch some more.
And beleive it or not each country has it's own particular feel and character to it.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Well even with relatively even numbered sides ( B 40+/R 50+/K40+) you still dont get what you'd like to class as fair and balanced.
Look at tonights LW1, this wasn't for a minute or so, was like this the 3 hours I was there...
(http://www.cyberonic.com/~kreed/map.jpg)
Sort of blows the even numbers = fair and balanced theory, doesn't it.
Was basically 50 Bish v everyone else.
The reasons are valid why we wouldn't goto this certain country, whether you like it or not.
No it wasn't a single person but the attitude of some of the larger more veteran squads.
Put it this way - it's the only country I've seen deliberately thin out a cap to try to encourage uppers so they could vultch some more.
And beleive it or not each country has it's own particular feel and character to it.
I've flown them all, for months or years at a time, and I'm still calling BS. As I said, you picked your rationale for not helping solve the problem, and that type of mentality is why we've got one.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Sort of blows the even numbers = fair and balanced theory, doesn't it.
Nope, it does clearly indicate that the root cause of the unfair gameplay is the result of player activity though. It also clearly proves what so many of us have been saying...the majority of players (maybe a higher majority in LW) do not want "fairness", they merely want the safety of the gang.
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yayyyy!!! edbert gets it finally!!! ding ding!
people are people so why should it be...you and i should get along so awfully??? - depeche mode
hehehehehe
seriously...logged into MW other night...numbers fairly even but knits/rook with major fight that occupied most players...i could:
1) jump to knit/rook but end up imbalancing numbers
2) milkrun knit/rook hoping to pull some off but end up with the country i attack having an equivalent of a gangbang against them.
so i goto lw2 (actually directed there by randoomizer)...bish undermanned...but for the life of me cant find any decent fights...overall numbers too low and i get bored of chasing darbars....
i pop out and manage to sneak into lw1...bish heavily outnumbering others but fights abound!!!! all our fronts under attack..woot!!! so i stay and have a good time though our advantage seems quite high numberwise...eny is in effect but la5 is fun!
so yes edbert...the root problem is that people only have a short period of tiime to find fun... and equalizing numbers but not finding fun is not fun....
LW1 and LW2 need to be fixed though...we will never have stability in numbers with a randomizer distributing folks around...MW is the best right now because at least folks can log in and know what will happen. remmember that before the arena changes there were even numbers in the MA...so balancing an arena is something that the community is capable of given the right tools and situation.
what would help squads would be cross arena vox...that would rock hitech..then if guys couldnt necesaarily get into all the same arena they could still "hang out" together:aok
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Originally posted by calan
I think it should just be two sides: Queens and Pawns... then nobody would want to be on any side :lol
But the queen is the most powerful chess piece...
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Originally posted by LYNX
bish-8
knight-24
rook-53
Yer.... bit of a bugger that
I (rook) looked in and logged out. I looked in because LW blue was being rolled similarly by a load of bish. Twas after midnight UK so went to bed.
Logged in last night (knight) saw similar situations in both LW arenas.
First. I thought I'd been kicked from the one arean that had more numbers to the LW arena with less numbers.
Dont remember the excact brakdown of numbers but next to nothign was going on on the knit-rook front and it looked like the bush had two fronts going. Knits were hording bish on that front and looked like a similar situation might be going on on the Rook-Bish front.
Took two flights against rooks to see if I could stir up a good fight But nothing doing.
Switched arenas to see if there was a better fight going on there. But the situations was there the knits were being horded.
Waited a few min to see if a green darbar grew anywhere to provided even a decent chance of a good fight. But nothing.
So I logged off.
I had no desire to be part of or victim of the horde gangbang all night long
And Yes I have loyalty to a chess peice.
Like it, dont like it, agree with it, or dont agree with it. I dont really care.
But when I join a side I decide that is my side and these are my enemies. In this case its the enemies are Bish and Rook.
For me it adds to the imersion level.
Now this isnt a whine but just personal feeling and opinion.
I dont like the new setup and find myself playing less and less.
The problem in my eyes seems to be that maybe before there were too many people to cram into one arena.
Now weve gone too far on the opposite direction where there are too many arenas for the number of people that play
My suggestion would be to reduce the amount of arenas by half.
And just have 2 MAs and get rid of the Early and mid war arenas
Orrr.
Have 2 LW MAs and 1 Early to mid war Arena
If the playerbase grows. you can always add more arenas
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Originally posted by Messiah
But the queen is the most powerful chess piece...
Not in AH... unless they were relegated to flying 262's :)
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
yayyyy!!! edbert gets it finally!!! ding ding!
people are people so why should it be...you and i should get along so awfully??? - depeche mode
hehe
"Can't we all just get along!" - Rodney King 1992
Hee heee hee
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hmm... ya know it is not the overall numbers that make for good gameplay...
It is good gameplay that makes for good gameplay.. the whordes who insist on flying with all their "friends" ruined gameplay in the old MA... it didn't matter that the numbers overall were even most of the time..
there was never a good fite because their idea of gameplay was safety in numbers and sneak. It was two or three whordes circle jerking at undefended feilds... if a real fight broke out they did there best to end it with suicide runs on the FH's or the CV.
boner claims my posts about the current gameplay are funny... seems most everyone here that isn't married to a chess peice and the gameplay of "numbers is everything" is agreeing that we are finding more and better action and that the people, for the most part, are more fun and polite to fly with.
I flew with overlag yesterday... helped him out even... what is wrong with that? If you never switch you never get to talk to your nemisis.
If you ever flew with a country and it left a bad taste then it was probly because you wanted to have things your way kev.
I flew with the knits... when they just wanted to take a field I moved to the next fight... no big deal... when the numbers were more even I "helped" by killing lots of red planes... that does not mean I was there to help take the field... when red planes stopped upping... I left. no big deal...
In the old MA slum it was allmost impossible to find an area where there was real action... the more on.... the worse it got. The more that got on the more they huddled together like little girls and hid from each other while runway diving in late war planes that are immune to ack.
laughable.... they caused the problem and now they want to continue it and have more opportunity to do it...
Where the hell did these type of simmers come from?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Funny indeed Falc, this is what we've been saying all along...that the players were the root cause of the unfair gameplay...glad you've come to see it that way too.
Originally posted by lazs2
Where the hell did these type of simmers come from?
That's just it Lazs...the new generation of AHer is not a simmer...they're gamers.
What I don't understand is the mentality where some see that trouncing some players with overwhelming odds and giving your opponent little chance to win is somehow fun in the first place. To me, I always thought gaming was more akin to sporting, where the playing field is roughly even. THAT is where the fun of defeating your opponent comes from (for me at least), and even when you get beat you know you had a sporting chance and it makes you want to learn more or try harder next time. Steamrolling bases and hiding in the horde is no more fun than being steamrolled or ganged by the horde; again, speaking for myself only.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Where the hell did these type of simmers come from?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
First-person shooters.
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Originally posted by lazs2
In the old MA slum it was allmost impossible to find an area where there was real action... the more on.... the worse it got. The more that got on the more they huddled together like little girls and hid from each other while runway diving in late war planes that are immune to ack.
laughable.... they caused the problem and now they want to continue it and have more opportunity to do it...
Where the hell did these type of simmers come from?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
lol lazs....the old ma had the best fights and nonstop action 24/7. while i can respect Hitech's decisions to experiment with the game arenas to increase subscriber base...im afraid i cant let you and the other 5-6 guys who nonstop post this drivel to rewrite history...not only was there nonstop fun and fights...but up to 600+ people a night loved it!!! the only little girl i can see is you..because you cant handle the dynamics of such an arena and your silly attitude that anything better then a woobiecane or fm2 is "easy mode" prevented you from finding out why so many loved it!!!
the best thing, that i do miss, was that we didnt have to take it upon ourselves to create battles...they were there 24/7...what i see now is guys on ch200 having to orchestrate fights..."ok 2 of you change to knits and then we will lift off a1--->a5 and dont fly above 5k" "hey now you have more guys on then we do...tell them to stay out til we are done...i just want a 1v1" (i love that btw..always have to bite my lip..we have dynamic opne arenas but guys will tell others to stay out) the guys in EW/MW know exactly what i mean...i hope this corrects itself and fights just occur like they used to.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
If you pay attention to chesspiece in icon, the two are usually pretty distinguishable.
[...]
Autsch! Nach ca. 5 Jahren Aces High tut dat richtig weh! :o
I think I'm a dolt.
:confused:
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Originally posted by lazs2
If you ever flew with a country and it left a bad taste then it was probly because you wanted to have things your way kev.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
If you'd actually bothered to read on you would have seen one of the reasons -
They deliberately thinned out the cap at a field to try to get some uppers so they could vultch some more.
Another one -
When they were vulching a field a squaddie snuck a goon in (after a 75 mile flight) and took it, to be met with howls of derision about it stopping them vulching.
Next day we swapped BACK to Bish.
As usual you read what you want to without getting the bigger picture.
I'll put a suggestion to you -
If we are to have equal numbers the ONLY way to ensure fairness is to go to only 2 countries.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
lol lazs....the old ma had the best fights and nonstop action 24/7. while i can respect Hitech's decisions to experiment with the game arenas to increase subscriber base...
Isn't that off the mark a bit? The arenas were changed specifically because the numbers and their social impact in generating a slum atmosphere.
I haven't seen anywhere that HTC has made the changes to ramp up the subscriber base.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
I'll put a suggestion to you -
If we are to have equal numbers the ONLY way to ensure fairness is to go to only 2 countries.
You can have balance with 2, 3, or more sides.
It just takes a (to me.. benevolent) dictating auto-balancer that forces side changes.
There's a reason many games that do not even let you onto a side when you join the game. You join as a spectator. If you try to join an unbalanced side, it simply refuses you, until you pick the side that needs help. You can also switch with just 2 keys as the numbers unbalance in the opposite direction. On top of that, there's no motivation to prefer a side in AH, because all of the same equipment is available to all sides (la7 dweebs are universal).
also, all 3 sides engage in the same behavior that left a bad taste in your mouth. I fly for all 3, and I've seen all 3 do it. Rampant dweebery is a population problem, and not limited to the shape of your icon.
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This batch of Merlot(:cry ) is turning into vinegar:lol
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The arenas were changed specifically because the numbers and their social impact in generating a slum atmosphere.
While this is 100% correct.
The outcome should be more fun in the long run, which = more subs.
HiTech
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sorry falc... for one thing... I don't think anyone here thinks you are "LOL" no matter how much you type it...
for another... if you thought the old MA was 24/7 action then it is simple to see why we are having trouble understanding each other since we have such different ideas of "action" and what is consists of.
For me...3 whordes all circle jerking undefended fields to the tune of a couple little generals and "fighting" a bunch of buildings and the occasional newbie babby bird stuttering his way up off the capped runnway to be vulched by La7's and other late war planes that are virtualy immune to ack... to me... that is not really.... "action" but.. that was what we had.
600 people all hiding from each other in hope that a dozen of em might find some newbie to gang or runnway vultch is not my idea of an action packed multiplayer arena.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
sorry falc... for one thing... I don't think anyone here thinks you are "LOL" no matter how much you type it...
for another... if you thought the old MA was 24/7 action then it is simple to see why we are having trouble understanding each other since we have such different ideas of "action" and what is consists of.
For me...3 whordes all circle jerking undefended fields to the tune of a couple little generals and "fighting" a bunch of buildings and the occasional newbie babby bird stuttering his way up off the capped runnway to be vulched by La7's and other late war planes that are virtualy immune to ack... to me... that is not really.... "action" but.. that was what we had.
600 people all hiding from each other in hope that a dozen of em might find some newbie to gang or runnway vultch is not my idea of an action packed multiplayer arena.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
absolutely priceless -----circle jerking :lol --600 people hiding from each other:huh -- fighting buildings :rofl this guy is truely a treasure!!!!!
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Originally posted by lazs2
sorry falc... for one thing... I don't think anyone here thinks you are "LOL" no matter how much you type it...
for another... if you thought the old MA was 24/7 action then it is simple to see why we are having trouble understanding each other since we have such different ideas of "action" and what is consists of.
For me...3 whordes all circle jerking undefended fields to the tune of a couple little generals and "fighting" a bunch of buildings and the occasional newbie babby bird stuttering his way up off the capped runnway to be vulched by La7's and other late war planes that are virtualy immune to ack... to me... that is not really.... "action" but.. that was what we had.
600 people all hiding from each other in hope that a dozen of em might find some newbie to gang or runnway vultch is not my idea of an action packed multiplayer arena.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
im starting to wonder if you ever played in the old MA :confused: ???
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
lol lazs....the old ma had the best fights and nonstop action 24/7. while i can respect Hitech's decisions to experiment with the game arenas to increase subscriber base...im afraid i cant let you and the other 5-6 guys who nonstop post this drivel to rewrite history...not only was there nonstop fun and fights...but up to 600+ people a night loved it!!! the only little girl i can see is you..because you cant handle the dynamics of such an arena and your silly attitude that anything better then a woobiecane or fm2 is "easy mode" prevented you from finding out why so many loved it!!!
first i think theres more than just 5-6 of us, and if Lazs is a little girl then so am I :lol . There were many nights before this arena change that I sat at my pc and thought about playing. After thinking about whether I wanted to spend my time in an arena where either
A: there was 10-15 red planes all circling and vultching and blowing up buildings OR
B: spending 10-15 minutes chasing down Typhoons and P-51s, La7s that came to a field blowup strat and then take off running as soon as a plane shows up to challenge them. OR
C: I could chose to be part of the horde and go up with large mizzons and overwelm a base, did that, it losts its fun, it gets old after awhile. OR
D: Play solitare and listen to music or play HL2
I usually would pick D. except for squad night (5 active guys) on Saturday
I like the EWA just fine, I dont know why some people have a hard time finding a fight. I login around 7-8pm central during the week and play till about 10-11pm. I manage to get about 20-30 kills a night (and die too :) ) I have fun and I try to make time to play now.
and boner, the old MA (and in my opinion humble or not) was a circle jerk. 600 people online and 20 bish attack a rook base with 3-4 rooks defending while 20 rooks are attacking a Knight base and 20 Knights are attacking a bish base. I've heard em and seen it.
Player1: Ok everybody hit the town, drop your ord and deack the base.
Player2: Rgr, dropping town.
Player3: I got the goon, OTW eta 5 minutes
Player2: towns down bring in the troops
Player4: we got planes uping!!
Player1: get the LA7
Player2: M8 and M16 running to town.
Player1: somebody got ord left drop the VH.
everybody: no ord left all dropped on the town.
Player3: goon ib, eta 3mins, I got troops
Player5: anybody need troops
Player2: spit and hurri uping
Player1: ok break it off, we cant get it now.
Player4: yea lets go to A20, theres nobody there we should be able to capture that one.
Player1: ok RTB, afk
Player3: goon IB eta 1 minute, is the town down
Player3: guys?? hello
yea thats alot of fun...:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Airscrew
Player1: Ok everybody hit the town, drop your ord and deack the base.
Player2: Rgr, dropping town.
Player3: I got the goon, OTW eta 5 minutes
Player2: towns down bring in the troops
Player4: we got planes uping!!
Player1: get the LA7
Player2: M8 and M16 running to town.
Player1: somebody got ord left drop the VH.
everybody: no ord left all dropped on the town.
Player3: goon ib, eta 3mins, I got troops
Player5: anybody need troops
Player2: spit and hurri uping
Player1: ok break it off, we cant get it now.
Player4: yea lets go to A20, theres nobody there we should be able to capture that one.
Player1: ok RTB, afk
Player3: goon IB eta 1 minute, is the town down
Player3: guys?? hello
yea thats alot of fun...:rolleyes:
thats one reason i quit gooning LOL
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well since i'm new here and was gunna start taking beat down this week and haven't picked one yet, which country seem's to be at a disadvantage? i tend to like being out numbered, more people to kill
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Originally posted by lazs2
sorry falc... for one thing... I don't think anyone here thinks you are "LOL" no matter how much you type it...
for another... if you thought the old MA was 24/7 action then it is simple to see why we are having trouble understanding each other since we have such different ideas of "action" and what is consists of.
For me...3 whordes all circle jerking undefended fields to the tune of a couple little generals and "fighting" a bunch of buildings and the occasional newbie babby bird stuttering his way up off the capped runnway to be vulched by La7's and other late war planes that are virtualy immune to ack... to me... that is not really.... "action" but.. that was what we had.
600 people all hiding from each other in hope that a dozen of em might find some newbie to gang or runnway vultch is not my idea of an action packed multiplayer arena.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
lazs trust me i do LOL:D
i agree with the poster who wonders if you ever really played in the old MA? erm LOL
again i continue to question your ability to function outside of a rigid atmosphere that benefits your style of flying...there was tons of action in the old MA and while again i respect Hitech's interpretation of the direction it had taken...i thought it was fun. just a personal point of view...but since there were 500+ on with me, i assume they were having fun too...there was a certain drama that kept me from logging and had me logging in when i had any spare time at all.
and i CAN understand to a point your frustration with the old MA as it would not be amenable to your style of flying...the distances between bases are too far to take EW planes and arrive at a fight in a reasonable period of time...thats why many flew the faster planes, myself included. But whose fault is it that you have chosen to restrict yourself from flying certain planes?? and why should someone else be to blame for it?
but again to characterize all who flew in there as whorde vulching skillless pilots again makes me question how much you really know? you and others dont like to play the strat and capture portion of this game...understood...but many others did and the tactics for being successful dont need ridicule....to attack a base with intent for capture would never have worked with even numbers of attackers and defenders...it is too easy to kill a goon. the attackers will always need enough force to overhwelm the defenders...when you didnt have numbers you used suprise (noe)...all features built into this game by hitech et al. why have a feature to avoid radar detection if not to encourage the dynamic of suprise?
be careful how you apply that paintbrush sir...i see stang, jaxxo, mars etc more in LW or MW then EW....im sure you dont consider them to be slum dwellers...or do you?
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This new setup is very trying to say the least.
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When are you two guys gonna duel and be done with this....
:rofl
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
When are you two guys gonna duel and be done with this....
:rofl
anytime he wants waffle...i was there for the date on your ticket and he of course no showed...
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let me know when you guys set a date....I can reprint tickets....:rofl
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The one arena old MA was alright. Plenty to do, plenty of action and plenty of fights if you could be arsed to go find or start one. You can't just sign on and bammo furball on the door step:rolleyes:
The "Vocal minority" expected otherwise and got very vocal about the lack of a "good fight"..... loada Cods. Weekends packed close to near MA capacity. Those regular weekenders were mostly ya furballers to. Sure thing, the squads ran squad nights at weekends but that gave us even more targets.
As for 3 countries mission rolling each avoiding fights also a loada Codswollop. You may have gotten 2 countries ganging the weaker I can't deny but to imply that's all it ever was is just plain "sweaty sacks". For those "vocal minorities" that report this as a "every day" normality are plainly deluded or "bitter".
What needs to be recognised is that the vocal minority are just that ......a minority. What gets me is these guys busy "fur-balling" still have the time to be bothered to comment on with the bigger picture..... like it matters to them when it plainly doesn't. The Strat side is of no use or concern to them. They ARE NEVER EVER going to have anything positive to say about it.
Furballs 1) Had a great time last night. Enemy attacking our base loadsa fights and when you was shot down you only had a 1 minute flight to be back in the action.
Baller 2) They didn't bugger the fight up then ?
Furballs 1) Oh not much ! Couple of times our strat players captured one of the attackers bases. It drained of some cons or the fight moved over there but it was jolly hockey sticks all round.
Invite input to a "complaints department" and guess what ya gonna get... thats right shnnuuuckums ... "COMPLAINTS". Ask the minority for their OPPINION and ya gonna get a "MINORITY OPPINION".
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Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... ya know it is not the overall numbers that make for good gameplay...
It is good gameplay that makes for good gameplay.. the whordes who insist on flying with all their "friends" ruined gameplay in the old MA... it didn't matter that the numbers overall were even most of the time..
there was never a good fite because their idea of gameplay was safety in numbers and sneak. It was two or three whordes circle jerking at undefended feilds... if a real fight broke out they did there best to end it with suicide runs on the FH's or the CV.
boner claims my posts about the current gameplay are funny... seems most everyone here that isn't married to a chess peice and the gameplay of "numbers is everything" is agreeing that we are finding more and better action and that the people, for the most part, are more fun and polite to fly with.
I flew with overlag yesterday... helped him out even... what is wrong with that? If you never switch you never get to talk to your nemisis.
If you ever flew with a country and it left a bad taste then it was probly because you wanted to have things your way kev.
I flew with the knits... when they just wanted to take a field I moved to the next fight... no big deal... when the numbers were more even I "helped" by killing lots of red planes... that does not mean I was there to help take the field... when red planes stopped upping... I left. no big deal...
In the old MA slum it was allmost impossible to find an area where there was real action... the more on.... the worse it got. The more that got on the more they huddled together like little girls and hid from each other while runway diving in late war planes that are immune to ack.
laughable.... they caused the problem and now they want to continue it and have more opportunity to do it...
Where the hell did these type of simmers come from?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
hey lazs, i don,t think your posts are funny at all. they are sad. you have a condesending attitude and are extremely rude. some of your arguments are actually valid and i agree with (some ) of them. but the way you present them is absolutely horrid!!! i just can,t get past the way you are constantly belittling everyone. and i mean everyone. hey --i could be wrong --you might actually be a nice guy--but i haven,t seen one of your posts that proves otherwise.
jeeeeez will ya cut it out?? you,re becoming a laughing stock!!!
Boner
public relations officer for Boner
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Originally posted by whiteman
which country seem's to be at a disadvantage?
First off welcome...nice LS1...and...been to SugarLand many times myself.
As far as your question...it doesn't matter much really. What you need to look for is a group of like-minded individuals and join a squad, preferably a looser one just so you can relax and not get so wound up in it all. But WRT countries...they all pretty much suck, at least at one time or another they do. As you can see, this place has about 5,000 players every month and about 10,000 opinions for the same period.
Hope you enjoy your stay and hang around a while!
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I was a major skeptic, but have gotten to like the new setup. If you have been on defense forever- as Rooks usually were in the old MA- you can now go to another arena and actually have superior numbers. The only problem with that is that I get bored & go back to an arena where Rooks are on defense. BTW, my squad -Shillelagh- for the last 10-12 years in various games prefers to pick one side and stick with it. We'll see if that changes now. We only have 1-3 flying at any time so it won't change numbers at all.
-MI-
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falc.. calling me the vocal minority over and over isn't gonna make it so.. "5 or six guys" is about all you have posting too... some are pretty young and new and... well... crybabies too.
You say that I could have just flown late war planes in the Ma.. I did on occassion... yak and F6 In the old days the Hog even tempest.. one time I flew every single fighter plane in the set until I landed at least one kill in it... You ever done that?
the problem is that the action slows down and.. as airscrew so perfectly put it... most of the people in the old ma were in slum behavior circle jerk mode.
Now, there are some articulate guys on your side of the fence but... they are euros... it is a different story for them and I feel for em... they never had a huge arena... I have flown with overlag in the EW and we got along fine... I have flown with ranger too and we got along fine... I have fought your guys in ew and we seemed to get along fine and have a good furball... if they thought my easy mode f4f at 1-2k attacking them and another red was easy mode then they never told me.
face it.. you are a lala whorde guy who has to have the adoration of his subjects and insulates them and himself from at least 2/3 of the community.. You are so insulated that you thought you could simply say you didn't like the new setup and everyone would agree and force HT to make it all back the way it was... I am sure you got a rude awakening.
nobody, including me cared about your little cult before but we knew it and ones like it were ruining the gameplay. But then you all came on with the change and alternately whined and pouted and threatened.... To me it looked like a whole whorde laying on their backs and pounding their fists and stomping their feet with crying huge tears with purple faces.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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What needs to be recognised is that the vocal minority are just that ......a minority. What gets me is these guys busy "fur-balling" still have the time to be bothered to comment on with the bigger picture..... like it matters to them when it plainly doesn't. The Strat side is of no use or concern to them. They ARE NEVER EVER going to have anything positive to say about it.
I hearby recognize LYNX as the vocal minority.
Satisfied now?
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
I hearby recognize LYNX as the vocal minority.
Satisfied now?
HiTech
:lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
falc.. calling me the vocal minority over and over isn't gonna make it so.. "5 or six guys" is about all you have posting too... some are pretty young and new and... well... crybabies too.
You say that I could have just flown late war planes in the Ma.. I did on occassion... yak and F6 In the old days the Hog even tempest.. one time I flew every single fighter plane in the set until I landed at least one kill in it... You ever done that?
the problem is that the action slows down and.. as airscrew so perfectly put it... most of the people in the old ma were in slum behavior circle jerk mode.
Now, there are some articulate guys on your side of the fence but... they are euros... it is a different story for them and I feel for em... they never had a huge arena... I have flown with overlag in the EW and we got along fine... I have flown with ranger too and we got along fine... I have fought your guys in ew and we seemed to get along fine and have a good furball... if they thought my easy mode f4f at 1-2k attacking them and another red was easy mode then they never told me.
face it.. you are a lala whorde guy who has to have the adoration of his subjects and insulates them and himself from at least 2/3 of the community.. You are so insulated that you thought you could simply say you didn't like the new setup and everyone would agree and force HT to make it all back the way it was... I am sure you got a rude awakening.
nobody, including me cared about your little cult before but we knew it and ones like it were ruining the gameplay. But then you all came on with the change and alternately whined and pouted and threatened.... To me it looked like a whole whorde laying on their backs and pounding their fists and stomping their feet with crying huge tears with purple faces.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
WOW!!!!:O this is getting beyond sad, and rapidly aproaching pathetic!!!
why is this guy who flys in the ew, so vocal about all the aspects of the game that he does,nt play?? a few years of psychoanalysis may give us the sad answers. a recent post i made was deleted for being to harsh.
i,m sure a few people read it before it was closed. it boggles my mind that this Lazs2 fellow continues to be allowed to spew this garbage, every single day without it being addressed by the powers that be!!!!
if ever i saw a mouthy trouble maker , this guy is it!!!
it is unbelievable that this guy is still allowed to provoke, with his constant name calling and finger pointing and just in general, beyond rude comments.
most of the guys i fly with don,t mind the changes so much as this Laz fellow is trying to make out. however we are outraged at his incessant poisonous barbs.
this guy thinks he knows how we fly as a squad. he knows what planes and tactics we use. he knows nothing!!!
we get it laz--you don,t like (insert an insulting name) and you don,t like (another insulting name)
i think you made your point about 10,000 posts ago!!!!
i,m begging ya !!!!!! stfu!!!!!
hugs and kisses,
your pal Boner
public relations officer for Boner
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Originally posted by soupcan
MW arena sometimes has some really great battling going on.
However when 1 country starts getting overwhelming odds the
overall gameplay suffers.
As an example on Oct 29 at approx 19:00 CST MW had:
bish -11
knight-23
rook-38
over the course of the next hour 15 more players logged on
and all decided to play for the rooks.
I don't get it, not 1 of these 15 guys thought "hey this is a little
out of wack, maybe i should fight for the bish for an hour".
numbers then became:
bish-8
knight-24
rook-53
which becomes even more laughable when the majority of these 53 rooks
are hitting the bish.
Are players so tied to their chess piece that they would rather "fight"
(and i use the term loosely) 7 of US against 1 of THEM? And do these
same people think this is good action?
Ok, I posted on 200, Monday that this watermelon would happen, and it did.
70 Bish, 50 Knights and 20 Rooks were on Monday night (MWA). We NOT ONLY didn't start another thread about this chit, we also kept the highest number of fields and we still taking them. Funnier yet, the "base defense" for both were nonexistent.
When will you stop posting these obnoxious, threads. Cancel your account if you cannot handle numerical issues in the arenas, and then turn around crying for help from HTC!!! It makes me want to vomit. Really, you should cancel your account if you will whine about a "Target Rich Environment". It tells me one thing, you "choose" to fly with an advantage. Rooks have been accustomed to the TRE.
Soupcan, it is folks like you that make my days sunny and bright. :rofl
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
I still say the real answer to this is a robust, separate furballers and GVers arena for those not wanting to win the war.
Are you actually saying that people who furball or choose to play GV's don't want to win the war? Most furballs happen as a result of one side defending a base against another attacking it. So are you saying the defenders dont want to win or the attackers? Have you ever seen GV's attacking other bases? They do. And sometimes they win and help WIN the war. This comment sounds like a "lets banish anyone who's not like me" comment.
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Originally posted by 1Boner
WOW!!!!:O this is getting beyond sad, and rapidly aproaching pathetic!!!
why is this guy who flys in the ew, so vocal about all the aspects of the game that he does,nt play?? a few years of psychoanalysis may give us the sad answers. a recent post i made was deleted for being to harsh.
i,m sure a few people read it before it was closed. it boggles my mind that this Lazs2 fellow continues to be allowed to spew this garbage, every single day without it being addressed by the powers that be!!!!
if ever i saw a mouthy trouble maker , this guy is it!!!
it is unbelievable that this guy is still allowed to provoke, with his constant name calling and finger pointing and just in general, beyond rude comments.
most of the guys i fly with don,t mind the changes so much as this Laz fellow is trying to make out. however we are outraged at his incessant poisonous barbs.
this guy thinks he knows how we fly as a squad. he knows what planes and tactics we use. he knows nothing!!!
we get it laz--you don,t like (insert an insulting name) and you don,t like (another insulting name)
i think you made your point about 10,000 posts ago!!!!
i,m begging ya !!!!!! stfu!!!!!
hugs and kisses,
your pal Boner
public relations officer for Boner
Sorry Boner, but the BK's are OFTEN fighting in the EWA amongst numerically superior numbers. I know this, because I am often winging them, getting my 6 cleared, and clearing theirs, we got shot down alot, and shoot down alot.
Amazing, 95% of the time I am in the EWA, and have never seen you in there.
BK's have a new fanboi in 1Boner!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Donzo
How about this:
Players that have never, ever changed countries are logged into THEIR country when they login.
Players that have switched countries in the past (this could have a threshold set on it along with a time span) would be assigned to the country with the least number of players on it.
This way the free agents would not have to log in, see the numbers, and switch countries....it's done for them.
Disagree, drop all "chesspiece icons", and then change countries to balance out the numbers. I change countries to balance out the numbers, sorry but I'm mature enough to not allow the chesspiece to sway my decision making.
If the above doesn't apply, STOP MAKING THESE THREADS TO BEGIN WITH AND/OR POSTING IN THEM.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Sorry Boner, but the BK's are OFTEN fighting in the EWA amongst numerically superior numbers. I know this, because I am often winging them, getting my 6 cleared, and clearing theirs, we got shot down alot, and shoot down alot.
Amazing, 95% of the time I am in the EWA, and have never seen you in there.
BK's have a new fanboi in 1Boner!!!!!!!! [/QUOTE\
i never said you didn,t fly in the ewa!!! wtf are you talking about????
i think you better get your 6 cleared again , you,re starting to see things that aren,t there!!!!
and yes!!!:aok i have become a huge bk fan!!!! especially your pubic relations officer---you guys are the best comedy team since hitler and musolini !!!!!!!
i should hope that you guys fly against superior numbers. according to most posts i,ve read,it wouldn,t be fair otherwise.
my god will these guys ever stop????
your buddy,
Boner
public relations officer for Boner
ps----i don,t fly in the ew because i like the other side of the game and i most certainly wouldn,t want to come there and spoil ;your fun!!!---its called being polite!!--------peace--out!!
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Originally posted by 1Boner
i never said you didn,t fly in the ewa!!! wtf are you talking about????
i think you better get your 6 cleared again , you,re starting to see things that aren,t there!!!!
and yes!!!:aok i have become a huge bk fan!!!! especially your pubic relations officer---you guys are the best comedy team since hitler and musolini !!!!!!!
i should hope that you guys fly against superior numbers. according to most posts i,ve read,it wouldn,t be fair otherwise.
my god will these guys ever stop????
your buddy, Boner
ps----i don,t fly in the ew because i like the other side of the game and i most certainly wouldn,t want to come there and spoil ;your fun!!!---its called being polite!!--------peace--out!!
1. I'm not a BK
2. I never said, "you said you flew in the EWA".
3. I brought facts into your argument and you tap danced around them.
4. No we won't, as long as people whine, we'll be there to kick them in the nuts.
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Originally posted by 1Boner
ps----i don,t fly in the ew because i like the other side of the game and i most certainly wouldn,t want to come there and spoil ;your fun!!!---its called being polite!!--------peace--out!! [/B]
Can you explain that better? What other side of the game does EW not contain? Or are you meaning the fastest planes and the biggest bombers?
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
1. I'm not a BK
2. I never said, "you said you flew in the EWA".
3. I brought facts into your argument and you tap danced around them.
4. No we won't, as long as people whine, we'll be there to kick them in the nuts.
:aok :rofl
I hear tap dancing is good exercise
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
1. I'm not a BK
2. I never said, "you said you flew in the EWA".
3. I brought facts into your argument and you tap danced around them.
4. No we won't, as long as people whine, we'll be there to kick them in the nuts.
1. oops, thought you might have been a bk---sorry
2. ??? beyond my pea brain i guess.
3. facts???? whos facts???
4. didn,t think you would stop. why should you? we all just can,t wait to
hear what you have to say. it would be nice if you posted with a more
adult tone.
respectfully yours,
Boner
public relations officer for Boner
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Originally posted by Airscrew
:aok :rofl
I hear tap dancing is good exercise
Yep.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
If the above doesn't apply, STOP MAKING THESE THREADS TO BEGIN WITH AND/OR POSTING IN THEM.
uh....NO :p
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Can you explain that better? What other side of the game does EW not contain? Or are you meaning the fastest planes and the biggest bombers?
recent posts have given me the impression that the guys who like aerial combat only are confining themselves to that arena for the most part. most of them don,t seem to like the base taking aspects of the game, at least the way most guys take bases. ew certainly contains all the features of the other arenas, but i am concerned that if i try my style of play in there i would be chastised for ruining the fighters playing style. or i would fly the wrong type of plane or-or -or -or. personally i don,t get the fastest ,best,or dweeb plane argument----every arena has its la7--spit --niki -etc. in short, some of the vocal minority in these posts seem to point out that the majority of the aerial combat only types have staked claim to the ew arena,for various reasons.---out of respect--i don,t wanna go in there and risk ruining their fun. i won,t write rambling disertations on how they should or shouldn,t fly ,or how they are ruining the game.--its none of my business and the way others play shouldn,t be any of theirs!!!
your pal ,
Boner
public relations officer for Boner
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Originally posted by 1Boner
recent posts have given me the impression that the guys who like aerial combat only are confining themselves to that arena for the most part. most of them don,t seem to like the base taking aspects of the game, at least the way most guys take bases. ew certainly contains all the features of the other arenas, but i am concerned that if i try my style of play in there i would be chastised for ruining the fighters playing style. or i would fly the wrong type of plane or-or -or -or. personally i don,t get the fastest ,best,or dweeb plane argument----every arena has its la7--spit --niki -etc. in short, some of the vocal minority in these posts seem to point out that the majority of the aerial combat only types have staked claim to the ew arena,for various reasons.---out of respect--i don,t wanna go in there and risk ruining their fun. i won,t write rambling disertations on how they should or shouldn,t fly ,or how they are ruining the game.--its none of my business and the way others play shouldn,t be any of theirs!!!
your pal ,
Boner
public relations officer for Boner
Fair enough. Thanks for the explaination
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
When will you stop posting these obnoxious, threads. Cancel your account if you cannot handle numerical issues in the arenas, and then turn around crying for help from HTC!!! It makes me want to vomit. Really, you should cancel your account if you will whine about a "Target Rich Environment". It tells me one thing, you "choose" to fly with an advantage. Rooks have been accustomed to the TRE.
Soupcan, it is folks like you that make my days sunny and bright. :rofl
wow talk about someone who reads what they want.
nowhere did i "cry" to HTC for help.
and FYI i choose to fly on the side with lower numbers so
WTF are u spouting about? are u drunk?
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hitech
I hearby recognize LYNX as the vocal minority.
Satisfied now?
HiTech
Well ...with respect not exactly. Those 10 words of yours speak volumes. I have to admit I do feel a little affronted.
I'll step up to the plate and state my case clearly and politely so you know where I'm coming from what it is I mean and what my intentions are.
When I refer to lazs2 the other BK and the their handful of wanna be's as the "Vocal Minority". I refer to their constant appraisal of 1 style of play to the constant belittlement of the other style of play. It is my belief that there are more players participating in the "base tacking" side of the game than there are 100% furballers. I would be surprised if I'm wrong. With the data you have and, I'm not interested in seeing it, you can confirm or deny my assumptions if you wish!!
Regarding those above in reference of reporting game play in the old one arena system I said ...
As for 3 countries mission rolling each other. Avoiding fights also a loada Codswollop. You may have gotten 2 countries ganging the weaker I can't deny but to imply that's all it ever was is just plain "sweaty sacks".
For those "vocal minorities" that report this as a "every day" normality are plainly deluded or "bitter". .....
I am trying to say that lasz2 + comrades would have everyone believe including you and I that that's all it ever was. One big circle of base takers and no fights. This is not what I used to see with regard to the old system. If you wanted a fight there was always one to be had. That style of fight may not have been the total furball that BK's refer to but fights were there. Again you can confirm or deny if you wish.
As a UK player an "off peak" player I am what I consider at a disadvantage. What few players are on are now spread across 4 arenas. Granted the majority plumb for 1 of the LW arenas but for me I do experience a decrease in the player numbers. One time today there were 79 players total with the max number being 29 in LWO. I'm not making this up. At approx 3.40 PM UK...check another thread I replied to with the figures. If the sides were even that's just under 10 per side. This brings me to another FACT. Side balancing is now an even bigger issue. As previously mentioned if one arena reaches capacity in a lob sided way then the other arena in turn becomes lob sided. This is happening..... The very thing your buddies complained about with the previous system is compounded across many arenas now. You must be aware of this ? Check arena stats at 8PM Eastern time yesterday and the day before. That's 1AM UK..... I am not making this up!
Today I sent an e-mail to my squad letting them know my intentions of disbanding it 1 week today. This was done prior to your unexpected response HTC. Brief extracts from squad mail :-
If you guys wanna get into "Side Balancing" then that's now possible. Once the player base settled down perhaps new like minded squads will form but until then our squad would be a dead squad. The majority of us are actually playing less. Better to finish it than let it linger on.
Yer yippee for me and please excuse my sarcasm but I do feel a little bitter about this----> I'm blowing out a Rook squad so me and my mates can change sides...if they or I wish. My lads are playing less. Two have left Aces High altogether. I myself have ashamedly looked upon the home pages of sites I never thought I would
Personally I'm staying rook for now. I'm not gonna linger on making these lads participate in hoarding or being banged because the arena is outta balance. Not going to make them change sides because it's dinner time Central USA and Knights all logged out. Not going to have one lad or the whole squad accused of spying because he changed sides and the rest didn't. It's their choice now. They can find a new squad, side, colour, chess piece.........mates.
Has my loyalty to your game been questioned ? Yes it has.
Is there a "contender" to leave to ? Not in my opinion.
Do I intend to leave ? Possible but not in the near future.
Am I hanging in there to see how it goes ? Yes but lord give me strength player numbers and CT.
The "Influx of new players" couldn't happen soon enough as far as I or other UK, EU, NZ and Au (off peak) players are concerned. We truly are the "minority".
Do you want to alienate me even further ?
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Lynx, why does it have to be a "Rook Squad". Why can't it just be a squad that can move around as needed or convenient for guys to fly together?
Squad channel crosses all lines and arenas. So what if you run into a squaddie in the air once in a while on the other side?
In the end, by limiting yourself to one country, you are limiting your squad to the same thing. Loyalty to friends is fine, but who cares about the chess piece?
There is something to be said for adjusting with the times.
And having done the squad thing for 10 years now, most go through many revisions and evolutions as people come and go. Letting it happen and rolling with it, is also part of things.
That being said, if you aren't going to be happy that way, then you have to do what's best for you.
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Dan/CorkyJr GUPPY35
It's a strat squad. Been in a few squads and strat squads are side loyal. May only be 1 day , week or TOD loyal but they are always SIDE LOYAL.
Fighter squads are the squads that tend to mix and match. They can intergrate into the balancing easier.
Not having a dig mate but my post above says it all. No not to happy. Seems I am the minority in more ways than one.
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LYNX: My point is, that both you and laz and a few other on this board are the very vocal minority.
That dosn't meen I do not use the feed back to get a perspective. But understand I do view it in contects as a "vocal minority" just like your post.
HiTech
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Lynx, why does it have to be a "Rook Squad". Why can't it just be a squad that can move around as needed or convenient for guys to fly together?
Many of us don't WANT to switch countries, never have. In the 13+ years that I have been playing flight/combat games I have never had a squad switch sides.
Squad channel crosses all lines and arenas. So what if you run into a squaddie in the air once in a while on the other side?
In the end, by limiting yourself to one country, you are limiting your squad to the same thing. Loyalty to friends is fine, but who cares about the chess piece?
Why have a squad if you cannot work together??? It would be counterproductive to allow this practice.
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lazs:
"For me...3 whordes all circle jerking undefended fields to the tune of a couple little generals and "fighting" a bunch of buildings and the occasional newbie babby bird stuttering his way up off the capped runnway to be vulched by La7's and other late war planes that are virtualy immune to ack... to me... that is not really.... "action" but.. that was what we had.
600 people all hiding from each other in hope that a dozen of em might find some newbie to gang or runnway vultch is not my idea of an action packed multiplayer arena."
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Just out of curiosity, what is your idea of an action packed multiplayer arena?
Thanks
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Lynx, why does it have to be a "Rook Squad". Why can't it just be a squad that can move around as needed or convenient for guys to fly together?
Many of us don't WANT to switch countries, never have. In the 13+ years that I have been playing flight/combat games I have never had a squad switch sides.
Squad channel crosses all lines and arenas. So what if you run into a squaddie in the air once in a while on the other side?
In the end, by limiting yourself to one country, you are limiting your squad to the same thing. Loyalty to friends is fine, but who cares about the chess piece?
Why have a squad if you cannot work together??? It would be counterproductive to allow this practice.
Do you ever practice with your guys? Go to TA or DA and have at it? Is that counter productive?
What is the difference if you as a squad switch countries now and then? To be honest I have to check these days to see who I'm flying for. My first look is numbers. Go low and you can always find a fight. I see a lot of the same guys doing the same thing.
Why such a sticking point about switching sides. Why does it matter? No one really dies. No one really wins the war. We all get new planes and new maps regardless of which team wins the dogfights or the reset.
There are good people on every side and each has their share of the jerks and the griefers. 99% want it to be fun.
We talk about community a lot. Is our loyalty to that community or is it split purely on chess piece lines? Should we have three seperate BBS, one for the Rooks, one for Knits and one for Bish?
Then again maybe we split it even more by having Rook boards for EW, MW, LW, etc. along with ones the same for Bish and Knits.
Lets shut down 200 completely and isolate folks by chess piece. No salutes, or PMs. This is war after all :)
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Originally posted by hitech
LYNX: My point is, that both you and laz and a few other on this board are the very vocal minority.
That dosn't meen I do not use the feed back to get a perspective. But understand I do view it in contects as a "vocal minority" just like your post.
HiTech
Thanks for clearing that up :aok
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Do you ever practice with your guys? Go to TA or DA and have at it? Is that counter productive?
What is the difference if you as a squad switch countries now and then? To be honest I have to check these days to see who I'm flying for. My first look is numbers. Go low and you can always find a fight. I see a lot of the same guys doing the same thing.
Why such a sticking point about switching sides. Why does it matter? No one really dies. No one really wins the war. We all get new planes and new maps regardless of which team wins the dogfights or the reset.
There are good people on every side and each has their share of the jerks and the griefers. 99% want it to be fun.
We talk about community a lot. Is our loyalty to that community or is it split purely on chess piece lines? Should we have three seperate BBS, one for the Rooks, one for Knits and one for Bish?
Then again maybe we split it even more by having Rook boards for EW, MW, LW, etc. along with ones the same for Bish and Knits.
Lets shut down 200 completely and isolate folks by chess piece. No salutes, or PMs. This is war after all :)
As always, the voice of reason. Well said, Dan.
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Followed swiftly by the voice of reality.
1)Majority of squads do not want to "side change".
2)Strat squads rarely change sides and if they do it's usually for LOOOOONG periods.
3)Human nature / instinct and to some extent pier pressure instills in our behaviour allegiances.
From the Troop to the tribe to the clan to the county to the country to the empire.
When allegiances collapse so to do empires ask Darth Vada and if the Frenchies hadn't helped out some rebellious Brits (traitors for alliances with the French) Her Majesty the Queen would be Sovereign of the World by now:aok
(hehe anyone see what i'm doing here. Selling cars was so much fun. I miss the mind games at times.)
Umm i digress... it's a game but Human instincts will prevail is what I'm saying.
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Originally posted by LYNX
Followed swiftly by the voice of reality.
1)Majority of squads do not want to "side change".
2)Strat squads rarely change sides and if they do it's usually for LOOOOONG periods.
3)Human nature / instinct and to some extent pier pressure instills in our behaviour allegiances.
From the Troop to the tribe to the clan to the county to the country to the empire.
When allegiances collapse so to do empires ask Darth Vada and if the Frenchies hadn't helped out some rebellious Brits (traitors for alliances with the French) Her Majesty the Queen would be Sovereign of the World by now:aok
(hehe anyone see what i'm doing here. Selling cars was so much fun. I miss the mind games at times.)
Umm i digress... it's a game but Human instincts will prevail is what I'm saying.
To another voice of reality.
Dan and others are saying that the refuse-niks are simply setting their "clan loyalty" sights too low on the scale. How silly is the clan that ignores the state of the nation? Kinda like those "failed states" where factions would rather fight each other than solve the problems that ruin life for them all?
Be honest, Lynx -- the real issue is what came out at the very beginning of your post. Majority of the squads do not want...change
That's where it sticks in the craw.
Clan loyalty can be good. So can other things. These changes are not a question of good versus evil, but rather of good things competing for priority.So whats MORE IMPORTANT to you...the good of absolute chess loyalty, or the good of quality gameplay?
If you pick clan loyalty, though, remember this -- you have CHOSEN to make gameplay less important, so you have less right to complain about its quality.
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HT you replied to Lynx's post but never even touched on the FACT that now sides get even more lop-sided than ever.
You have taken an occassional problem and turned it into almost an hourly (definately daily) problem in most arenas.
I really feel for the non-US players they have really got the poopy end of the stick, and each change seems to be making it worse for them.
I think by now most of us realise what your trying to do, but trying to change human nature, well, more chance of getting money back from the taxman.
Plus if you so intent on equal sides, the only logical progression from there is only 2 countries, after all can't have 2 gang up on one, thats unfair.
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WE are the only barrier to equal sides.
So ask yourself...what is more important to you: Equal sides, or chesspiece loyalty?
We each make the choice, but we also each have to live with the consequences of our choices. Thas how life works, after all.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
I think by now most of us realise what your trying to do, but trying to change human nature, well, more chance of getting money back from the taxman.
So by this reasoning we should just acknowlege that it is human nature to want to fly for a chesspeice that outnumbers another 7 to 1?
Take a look around the gaming world in general, there are concesions made at every level to try to thwart that "human nature" you speak of. Personally I'd call the nature where a players wants to fly with overwhelming odds and obliterate their foes while remaining essentially invincible a borderline c-worder. If you insist on slanting the playing field to the extent illustrated above..
bish-8
knight-24
rook-53
...then if you're not a c-worder, at best you're a greifer.
Just to be sure, I am not calling the 53 rooks "cheaters". But I certainly have to question their motivation (as well as their class/honor/integrity) for paying a monthly fee to "fly" with practically no opposition. I mean, the whole point of flying online is to fight a human opponent right? If not there are boxed sims that provide at least equal ability to attack buildings, perhaps Lazs is right in that the allure for some folks is in the "chat room" mentality of the arenas, maybe that's the biggest gripe against smaller arenas. But I do not see how 53 people attacking 8 could POSSIBLY be fun for either side, regardless of what the 24 knights were doing. This is the "human nature" you speak of. This nature is what will have to be stamped out for the long term viability of the game. Since we are unable to police our own community, and the numerous carrots are apparently not working, then it seems silly to complain when the stick is brought out.
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I really feel for the non-US players they have really got the poopy end of the stick, and each change seems to be making it worse for them.
Poopy end of the stick being that some non-US players (non-US prime time) choose to populate all the arenas and not all flock to just one arena ?
From what I can see, it's the LW non-US people that are the most vocal.
Example:
EW - 10
MW - 15
LWO - 40
The 25 that are using the EW and MW choose to fly in those arenas (for whatever reason(s)) and more than likely having fun doing so.
Should HT force them into the LW arena if they don't want to be there just so those 40 can have more people to fight ?
I don't know why people keep on insisting that HT switch back to the one arena format.
HT use to serve a hot dog with mustard, relish, and onions ... no choice of any one condiment ... you had to have all 3 ... or nothing at all.
HT now serves up a hot dog with a choice ... you can have just mustard, or you can have just relish, or you can have mustard, relish, and onions.
It appears that people like the new choices and it appears that HT isn't going to change the menu, and the mustard-relish-onion crowd just can't understand that.
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ltarmoil... you asked what my idea of good gameplay is... I told you that 3 little generals or more circle jerking undefended fields and hiding from each other was not....
What is, in my opinion, is a couple of fairly close fields or a CV where planes are upping from both sides and meeting in the middle somewhere and fighting.. alts range from on the deck to say 5 k... planes are fairly equal in performance with some faster some more manueverable...
The problem with the latter war planes has to do with the fact that they are fast enough to be immune to the ack and can runway dive... if that were fixed(some more manned ack quad fifties or better tracking unmanned ack).. late war would be more fun... I have also seen good gameplay in the tank town areas with dozens of tanks on each side but again... late war bombers carpet bomb away the fun with little or no skill.
having dot dar makes for good fights... suicide dar porkers ruin it.
A lot of areas that have close fields and cv's help... if one field is taken... the building battlers got their fun and the furballers can just move to the next fight...maybe it will get taken or...maybe not for an hour or so (which is all the time most furballers spend in a sitting in any case).
Those who think it is human nature for lopsided milkrunning and 10 vs one fights and choosing late war lalas and such against early war planes are mistaken I think.
I think it is the nature of a few guys with large squads and the nature of an influx of players we got from another sim... I think that if they leave or change then real human nature will take over and the some sort of fairness will return.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Kev367 nails it on the head again!
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Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... ya know it is not the overall numbers that make for good gameplay...
It is good gameplay that makes for good gameplay..
boner claims my posts about the current gameplay are funny... seems most everyone here that isn't married to a chess peice and the gameplay of "numbers is everything" is agreeing that we are finding more and better action and that the people, for the most part, are more fun and polite to fly with.
I flew with overlag yesterday... helped him out even... what is wrong with that? If you never switch you never get to talk to your nemisis.
If you ever flew with a country and it left a bad taste then it was probly because you wanted to have things your way kev.
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
I agree with these thoughts 100%.
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I think by now most of us realise what your trying to do, but trying to change human nature, well, more chance of getting money back from the taxman.
Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.
Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?
HiTech
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Originally posted by SlapShot
IFrom what I can see, it's the LW non-US people that are the most vocal.
Example:
EW - 10
MW - 15
LWO - 40
.
imop,what"s worst and sad, is beeing enforced by new "dumping"sistem, to join that EW at high #s in the evening,
After 4-5 years , in SEA scenario, we still use Huricane and P40 acting as EW russian plane , EW arena is a joke, more poor in toys than a chess game,
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Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.
Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?
HiTech
the only issue i now have with the current setup is......
if you are loosing in one arena, you join another.. which makes it worse for everyone else.
you will have one arena with 10 knits in, and 50 bish/rooks, and one arena with 10bish in and 50 knit/rooks etc...
ive pm'ed a few times across arenas to try and get support, and it does work.. but if we are having "fun" winning a war, then all of a sudden all the bish quit and go to another arena, we cant fight anymore, because theres nothing to fight, and we have no planes.
i dont want 100% balance in sides, but i dont want to see one side having 200-400% more players than the low side.
this is what kev (or was it whels?) said that the arena caps should NOT stop the low sided team from joining.
if there is a 120 cap, and bish/rook have 50each, knits only 20, then knits should be allowed...lets say 10 more people to join.
most people will NOT change sides, and the higher sided teams often wont quit to go to the other arena because its not there fault knits didnt get anyone into the arena.
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Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.
Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?
HiTech
yes, MA was already a crazy cocktail, but did ofer way better quality gaming ,
What i would like to see and i did hope to see it for long time, like an step ahead in the evolution of this game,is that idea of ToD ,materialized in kind of MA style , a war more realistic AvA,
I would like a 1945 arena/map over Europe with 500-700 caps,
about 50 bases for western forces,/50 for germans/50 for russians , but with specific planes/gvs enabled each front,( no LA7s on west front),covering East/West front, going like MA, bombing campaigns,
also a dinamic front line, let most of us toolsheders capture land/win the war, cuz that's we like and pay for
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Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ? HiTech
I do. I think what you (HT) is trying to do is to get players and Sqdn's is find new homes in the arena's. Calling that arena home and over time having the numbers balance out over the three arenas.
One thing I would do if I was HT...
Separate scoring by arenas. No longer have a "one over the world scoring system". Yes I know 20 guys are going to jump in here and say, "Points don't mean anytime... score don't = skill...etc. etc. But I think many players use the score page as a yard stick on how well they are doing.
So to get players to pick a new "home" separate the score by arenas. I would reset the perk point some how, so that perks points you get in say LW are not useable in the other arenas.
This is what I would do if I was trying to balance the arenas. That and drop one of the LW arenas and add AvA to the MA's.... LOL
CAVALRY
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Guppy in responce to the question you asked boner about what other part of the game EW didn't contain......
EW has all aspects of fighting from furballing to base taking. The problem is that there are so few #'s in EW that it can't support a good "WAR" very well at all and then becomes just a furball arena..
I personally think this is sad because I think EW has some of the best fights for bases with the biggest combination of planes and GV use that I have seen used in game to take a base..... Maybe not in the variety of planes/GV's used (we really need more in EW) but the type IE fighters, bombers and tanks all working togeather to take an objective. With this combination EW base taking feels more real I guess would be one way to describe it. Not just the usual Heavy what ever to smash and grab with a goon right behind.
I don't know if I am alone in my assesment of EW but thats how I feel. If the EW "WAR" players would increase I would be spending so much more time in it. As it is now if you try to do the war thing in EW it's just a milkrun. :(
EDIT: I also have had the same thought as CAV up there.. I am by no means a score player, I am happy to keep mine around the 200's :) but I do agree it might reward some people more who play in other arenas.
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Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Im not trying to change human nature, The change is about using human nature to effect a desired out come.
Also you missunderstand my desire for balanced numbers. And besides going back to the old way, any sugestions or ideas ?
HiTech
Wish I did.
Quite honestly I think what you are trying to achieve is un-attainable.
Current lop-sided numbers in most arenas proves the majority will not swap sides for whatever reason.
I believe the only option you have is to accept that the majority will not change and find a way of setting the arenas up to prevent the lop-sided numbers happening, without further tee'ing off an even larger number of players.
How, quite frankly I haven't a clue.
Big advantage you have is that AH2 is the premier game of this type out there, so you can play around and get things right, as there really isn't another game for people to go to.
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I was reading this thread yesterday and had an idea that I've been thinking would be nice anyway that might solve the problem. It would be nice if, at the arena log-on screen there was a short recap of what's going on in the arena (i.e. map name, # players for each country and # fields for each country). I'm sure some would go where they have odds but others would go help where needed and it might help the overall #'s in the EW and MW arenas. At least it would be nice to see before entering so you didn't have to jump in and out to see where you want to fly. Just a thought.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Quite honestly I think what you are trying to achieve is un-attainable.
Current lop-sided numbers in most arenas proves the majority will not swap sides for whatever reason.
You contradict your argument with this. You are saying HTC cannot achieve success in the new format.
BUT, you have said you won't switch, IE, YOU are part of the problem. It is not nice to throw stones in a glass house.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You contradict your argument with this. You are saying HTC cannot achieve success in the new format.
BUT, you have said you won't switch, IE, YOU are part of the problem. It is not nice to throw stones in a glass house.
Never claimed in any of my posts that I would switch.
Doesn't contradict at all, it's a fact -
The majority of players won't switch sides, you may as well accept it and stop living in a fantasy world.
So lets see, the majority of players in the game are the problem!!!!!!
As I said the question shouldn't be how do we change their minds
but
How are the arenas setup to get equal numbers in them, as they don't at the moment.
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All of the ways to enforce fairness that I can think of would case major howls of whineage, the likes of which AH has not yet seen. For example:
Limit the number of active sorties of the two largest populations (combined) to be equal to the number of active sorties of the lowest chesspeice. If you try to roll a plane or GV you get to sit in the queue until it is your turn.[/i]
If folks are unwilling to play fair, and then complain that things are unfair, and then complain again when things are changed to make it more fair; I don't see what options we have other than draconian measures. Frankly...those types of measures are how nearly every other online game handles things. You simply canot join the side with the numbers advantage, the host will decide which team you join. This is made a little tougher by having three teams in a perpetual 1v2 of course. if we continue to force HTC into taking more and more machiavelian measures then we might end up with enforced numbers between two teams. of course I'm sure the "1337 g4m3r5" will find a way to game the game even then.
I'm sure this has been answered somewhere but...is the ENY thing applied to folks logged in or actually flying/driving? If the latter then nevermind, but if the former we might need an "inactivity kick tool".
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Lopsided numbers was a problem BEFORE the recent arena changes.
Call it human nature, but many players don't enjoy playing in an arena where the sides are 1:1.5 or even greater against them.
In the old days, I would host H2H and ask folks in the MOTD and arena title to please keep sides even. I can't tell you how the vast majority of times I would check on the arena to find 8 on one side tearing up the arena...
Hoard/Lemming/Gang mentality...call it whatever.
There seems to be no solution...
I'm a knight, and we've usually been typically outnumbered in the past...and while things have been a little better of late with the new arena system...I plan to stay knight regardless.
ROX
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Edbert: Sounds like the idea I proposed that turned into the ENY. Anyone care to dig that thread up and post a link?
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Let me see if I have this right ... and I will use numbers that are easiest for explanation and not the real numbers.
If ...
LW1 and LW2 have a cap of 100 and when an LW arena population reaches 50% of the cap, the other LW cap is increased by 50 seats.
So ...
Once LW1 reaches 50 players, LW2 cap is increased to 150 and LW1 still has room of 50 more players before is reaches its cap.
Once the 100 cap is reached in LW1 no more entry is allowed.
Now that LW2 cap has been increased to 150, players will begin to fill up LW2. Once LW2 reaches a population of 75 players, LW1 cap will be raised to 150. At this point, people really have a choice of LW1 or LW2 because neither has reached their respective caps.
So at this instant we would see ...
LW1 - 50/150
LW2 - 75/150
==============================================
Now lets go back to the beginning and start again ...
Once LW1 reaches 50 players, LW2 cap is increased to 150 and LW1 still has room of 50 more players.
Once the 100 cap is reached in LW1 (current numbers in LW1 are - 60 Rooks - 25 Knights - 15 Bish) and someone selects LW1 while the cap has been realized, they are presented with another popup choice ...
LW1 - Knights (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW1 - Bish (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW2 - Open for all at the moment
*60 is set by the highest single population at the point that the cap had been reached ... in this case, the Rooks had 60 when the cap was reached.
This way, someone who wants to play in LW1 and is willing to join one of the weaker sides, is allowed entry. So ... If I choose Bish ... the the cap is now 101/101 ... so on and so forth until balance is achieved (180/180), and at that point, there is no more entry into LW1 until LW2 has reached its saturation point causing the cap in LW1 to be increased.
So if LW1 did reach 180/180 by people choosing the under populated countries and LW2 eventually did reach it 50% saturation point, the new cap for LW1 would be 180 + 50 = 230 so we would see ...
LW1 - 180/230
LW2 - 75/150
I realize that this would take some coading, but it could help to alleviate lopsided numbers in "capped" arenas using people who don't care what country they belong to.
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Originally posted by Casinoman
There seems to be no solution...
ROX
There is a solution. It's just not one that people like. It just needs a server that functions as a benevolent dictator and enforces even numbers. It works in every other game, and had it been this way to begin with, it wouldn't even be a point worth griping... it would just be the way it is.
edit: okay 2 ideas. Slap's seems like a reasonable solution, but a queue to enter the arena would help it along nicely.
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Queues aren't the answer in anyway.
They have been suggested in numerous forms to control specific numbers of plane types in arenas etc, none were implemented thank God, well thank HT.
Slaps idea looked promising until I noticed one flaw -
Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.
Or another arena spawning that is vastly underpopulated and lop-sided one way.
I don't think there are enoguh floaters who swap sides to make the difference, not across multiple arenas anyway.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Queues aren't the answer in anyway.
They have been suggested in numerous forms to control specific numbers of plane types in arenas etc, none were implemented thank God, well thank HT.
Slaps idea looked promising until I noticed one flaw -
Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.
Or another arena spawning that is vastly underpopulated.
You can tinker and push people so much, eventually theres a backlash.
You misunderstand my idea of a queue. It's nothing that affects you once you're actually in the server. I'm not even in a skwad, so it's useless to me. However, many people with squads can't get into the same arena, and whine about it (rightfully so). So, let them queue up for the arena they want so they can play with their friends. They'd have the option to wait in line to fly with their friends, and not get automatically bounced to the lower pop arena.
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Originally posted by indy007
You misunderstand my idea of a queue. It's nothing that affects you once you're actually in the server. I'm not even in a skwad, so it's useless to me. However, many people with squads can't get into the same arena, and whine about it (rightfully so). So, let them queue up for the arena they want so they can play with their friends. They'd have the option to wait in line to fly with their friends, and not get automatically bounced to the lower pop arena.
Ahh got ya.
While it sounds good on the face of it, who honestly wants to sit around waiting for a 'slot(s)' to open up?
Frankly I'd rather it as it is now than sit in a queue.
More I think about it, the more I am starting to lean towards only two countires.
Easier to control equal-ish numbers.
No gangbanging of one country.
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Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.
I don't think so ... The choices would be ...
LW1 - Knights (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW1 - Bish (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW2 - Open for all at the moment
So there is always a choice to go to LW2 if you don't want to switch to a side.
Choosing LW2 would be no different that what we have now ... being wisked off to LW2 when LW1 is capped.
I don't think there are enoguh floaters who swap sides to make the difference, not across multiple arenas anyway.
May be true .. may not be. At least people would have a choice ... something they don't have now. You might be surprised.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.
I don't think so ... The choices would be ...
LW1 - Knights (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW1 - Bish (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW2 - Open for all at the moment
So there is always a choice to go to LW2 if you don't want to switch to a side.
Choosing LW2 would be no different that what we have now ... being wisked off to LW2 when LW1 is capped.
what if LW2 is empty or full?
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Slapshot: Your idea has some merit and I have been cosidering it.
Btw your concept of how it works is close with one very minor exception. it is increased by a fixed amount (currently 50) and not a percentage.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Overlag
what if LW2 is empty or full?
The logic would work in either case (arena) ... pretty open-ended question and somewhat vague to really give you an exact answer ... sorry.
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Originally posted by hitech
Slapshot: Your idea has some merit and I have been cosidering it.
Btw your concept of how it works is close with one very minor exception. it is increased by a fixed amount (currently 50) and not a percentage.
HiTech
OK ... hard numbers or percentages ... either work ... whatever works best for you.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
While it sounds good on the face of it, who honestly wants to sit around waiting for a 'slot(s)' to open up?
Frankly I'd rather it as it is now than sit in a queue.
You'd be suprised. A queue system is in effect for World of Warcraft PVP battlegrounds... and it seems to suit the 5+ million players just fine.
The option would be there though. Queue for a full arena you really want to be in, or jump to one that has space. It doesn't even effect side balance at all... it just removes a major gripe for the skwad night guys and replaces it with a much smaller gripe (wait time vs no option to even wait).
right there with ya on the 2 sides thing... other night I went Bish in MidWar & map was reset immediately. After the reset, about 18 rooks login, about 7 bish login, and 1 knight. The dar bar immediately went up on the other side of the map with some Rooks heading for the wipe open knight strat factories. Less then half of them had the huevos to come meet the Bish in the middle.
crap like that makes me want to register & open http://www.timidtoolshedder.com
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Could end up with people unable to fly if they weren't prepared to change sides.
I don't think so ... The choices would be ...
LW1 - Knights (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW1 - Bish (until they reach a population of 60*)
LW2 - Open for all at the moment
So there is always a choice to go to LW2 if you don't want to switch to a side.
Choosing LW2 would be no different that what we have now ... being wisked off to LW2 when LW1 is capped.
I don't think there are enoguh floaters who swap sides to make the difference, not across multiple arenas anyway.
May be true .. may not be. At least people would have a choice ... something they don't have now. You might be surprised.
There is a flaw in it, can't quite get my head around it yet, but it is something to do with if LW1 country min population was never reached and LW2 was at caps.
I had actually posted something along the lines of allowing people to log into arenas if they were prepared to play or were a member of the lower sides but ran into problems -
1) Not enough people who will swap to make a difference really.
2) Could end up severely unbalancing the other arena.
Few others but can't remember off the top of my head.
Don't think I'd be surprised at all.
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There is a flaw in it, can't quite get my head around it yet, but it is something to do with if LW1 country min population was never reached and LW2 was at caps.
One arenas population only effects the other arenas cap ... so you can't have a lockout.
LW1 cap is 100
LW2 cap is 100
LW1 reaches 50 people ... LW2 cap is now 150.
LW1 caps out at 100 ... ALL people are moved to LW2 until LW2 reaches 75 people ... then LW1 cap is raised to 150 ... so forth and so on.
My idea does not muck around with that logic ... it just allows people to enter a maxed out arena if they chose to join the weaker side(s) which in turn dynamically increases the cap by one for each person that is willing to make that choice ...
until all sides are balanced
or
until LW2 does reach its saturation point and the LW1 cap is then increased by HT's original logic.
If all side are balanced in LW1 before LW2 reaches its saturation point ... you will have no more choice except to go to LW2 ... which in turn will drive the population towards the saturation point ... which in turn will up the cap at LW1 ... and so on and so forth .... whew !!!
It's circular logic ... with a twist ... ;)
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1) Not enough people who will swap to make a difference really.
I think your wrong and would be very surprised. I wanted to join LW1 the other night to fly with Stang and Ball ... they were flying for the least populated country and having a ball ... but I could not join them or the arena due to the cap had been reached and LW2 did not reach its saturation point ... so NO SOUP for me. If my idea was implemented ... I could have flown with them.
I don't think that this is an exception. What if you were a die-heart Knight and they were the least populated country and were getting pummeled in LW1 ... would you not be pissed if you couldn't get into LW1 to help them out cause the arena was capped.
You see ... the choice is not only for those who are willing to switch sides ... it could be for those who want to get in to help their country who is getting pummeled.
2) Could end up severely unbalancing the other arena.
Not severely ... if you read the logic ... you can only join the lesser sides once the cap has been realized and you can't increase the population of any country more than what was established by the largest country population when the cap was realized.
Yes ... there is a chance ... in my example that you could see ...
60 Rooks
60 Knights
15 Bish
but that really couldn't be any worse than what we are seeing now.
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(http://www.ajwebb.eclipse.co.uk/Pictures/Aces/new/servers.JPG)
something like that would be cool
the numbers i used are just made up... percentages or hard numbers would have to be thought off after the coding is put in place.....:)
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Nice job Overlag ... that would be a better display than my "popup" idea.
The sub country population info is a nice touch.
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LOL Overlag I love how ya snuck the SEA on the bottom of the board the way you'd like to see it work.
;) :aok
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Originally posted by Stang
LOL Overlag I love how ya snuck the SEA on the bottom of the board the way you'd like to see it work.
;) :aok
huh? that the order its on the clipboard hehe...
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After all the negative stuff that has been thrown around about the subject, I must say that I was glad to see SlapShot's suggestion.
I think it would go a long way to reach some sort of balance in the matter.
SlapShot :aok
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right now in orange bish have half the numbers of knits.
i bet in blue its the oposite.... :(
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just to note, when we ask for "balance" we (well i) dont mean 50v50v50 or whatever.... just within 10-15% of each other maybe?
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Originally posted by lazs2
ltarmoil... you asked what my idea of good gameplay is... I told you that 3 little generals or more circle jerking undefended fields and hiding from each other was not....
What is, in my opinion, is a couple of fairly close fields or a CV where planes are upping from both sides and meeting in the middle somewhere and fighting.. alts range from on the deck to say 5 k... planes are fairly equal in performance with some faster some more manueverable...
The problem with the latter war planes has to do with the fact that they are fast enough to be immune to the ack and can runway dive... if that were fixed(some more manned ack quad fifties or better tracking unmanned ack).. late war would be more fun... I have also seen good gameplay in the tank town areas with dozens of tanks on each side but again... late war bombers carpet bomb away the fun with little or no skill.
having dot dar makes for good fights... suicide dar porkers ruin it.
A lot of areas that have close fields and cv's help... if one field is taken... the building battlers got their fun and the furballers can just move to the next fight...maybe it will get taken or...maybe not for an hour or so (which is all the time most furballers spend in a sitting in any case).
Those who think it is human nature for lopsided milkrunning and 10 vs one fights and choosing late war lalas and such against early war planes are mistaken I think.
I think it is the nature of a few guys with large squads and the nature of an influx of players we got from another sim... I think that if they leave or change then real human nature will take over and the some sort of fairness will return.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Thanks for the reply:)
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I was just flying rooks midwar - 21 Bish / 34 knits / 8 rooks
Early war previously - i had a perk mod of 12 ...only 4 on my side (knits)
I think the ENY / Perk modifier is the way to go, just crank it up to where it "hurts / helps" more. Maybe even double or triple the mutliplier..
An extreme example would be if one side side is WAY over populated...they might have 80% of the planes / vehicles disabled... Hell, if it gets so bad - have the entire planeset / vehicles disabled...
That would definetly get players to switch. Even if the most loyal of all chess-piece lovers couldn't fly...I'm sure they'd eventually switch.
On the other side..if the perk mod was rediculousy hi...the lowest numbered side, could actually be paid perks just for taking off in a plane :)
On a side note....If a country is pushing towards reset and is over populated... Make the reset perks correlated with perk / ENY.
So If you win a reset and are way over populated...you might only make 10 perks instead of the 75....extreme example - you win and you have 20 perks deducted from your total because of the outnumbering.
could be a fun experiment....
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I like those ideas Waffle.
:aok
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Sorry if this is what someone suggested and I am just too dense to realize it . . .
But it seems to me we already have a measure of country imbalance - ENY. Why not make it impossible to join a LW arena where your country already has that imbalance? If Eny >0 (or 5 or whatever min is deemed appropriate), you get "bounced" to the alternate arena even if there is still room under the original arena cap.
So, I see caps at 60/100 and 80/150, try to join the 60 arena -- but since my country already has an ENY limit in force there, I end up in the 80 arena where most likely my country is an underdog.
In the rare instance where the same country has ENY restrictions in both arenas, they would go to the arena with the lowest ENY.
I guess this makes more sense to me than a hard cap on a country side, or out-and-out blocking someone from joining an "era" of there choice, or forcibly bouncing someone from an arena that becomes unbalanced because a lot of an opposing country's players logged all at once.
It also seems it would help in a squad situation. A squad should end up split if and only if one of the arenas was unbalanced. In that situation, the decision of which arena to move to would be easy since I believe most would chose not to continue to fly in an arena with an ENY restriction and have your squad split. So, squads on a "high side" would be more likely to move to a different arena to keep the squad together, since those latecomer-squaddies would not be able to join the already unbalanced arena.
I realize that doesn't address EW or MW, but it seems like it should help with the LW without too much additional clipboard interface building (but what do I know - just guessing on that point).
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Originally posted by 1Boner
i have become a huge bk fan!!!! especially your pubic relations officer---you guys are the best comedy team since hitler and musolini !!!!!!!
:rofl
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.....or simply SWITCH COUNTRIES.
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Simaril
Be a good man in future with the common courtesy of "quoting" me correctly. My ACTUAL WORDS being :-
1)Majority of squads do not want to "side change".
and not as you have in quotes in your reply to me :-
Majority of the squads do not want...change
which may leave the idea that I am quoted as "not wanting change" ....period. If in-fact that's what you think you should have said just that and NOT....... implied that's what I said.
Manners dear boy.... manners please.
So back to the debate. As Ive already said changing sides is against our nature. Unless there is significant reward for "side changing" we are reluctant to do so.
Your average AH player is a squad member. Average squads are predominantly "Strat squads". These squad on an "average" do not side change. As previously said fighter squads are more adaptable to the "side change" issue. These "unbalanced sides" have been magnified or compounded by the new changes. Unforeseeable I'll grant that but an issue that needs dealing with because many are becoming disillusioned in the game. Personally I don't want to change sides. I also don't want to gang bang with a 50% majority on the weaker side. I also don't want to suffer at the hands of the majority side either. SO I LOGG OUT. I choose not to play. Some may choose to "milk run" because there isn't anything better or honourable to do. Others may just take 100% full advantage of superior numbers. Me... I LOG OUT.
When I signed up for this game November 2002 it didn't say on the front door "you may need to change sides". It didn't say "you may need to fight a squaddie". It didn't say "you may not be able to join your squaddies in the same arena for some time due to cap limiter or side balancer". It didn't say there is too many arenas but lets see how it pans out.
So we are left with figuring out the best solution. Almost infighting with some insisting the boiled eggs be opened at the curved end ...ffs everyone knows it's the pointy end.
What conclusions can I draw :-
----->>>>We are debating side balancing and arena capacity now not "unhealthy" behavour. <<<<------
Slapshot has the best solution to our dilemma in the short term.
=======>>>>THE SQUAD IS DEAD LONG LIVE THE INDIVIDUAL<<<<<========
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Originally posted by LYNX
Simaril
Be a good man in future with the common courtesy of "quoting" me correctly. My ACTUAL WORDS being :-
1)Majority of squads do not want to "side change".
and not as you have in quotes in your reply to me :-
Majority of the squads do not want...change
which may leave the idea that I am quoted as "not wanting change" ....period. If in-fact that's what you think you should have said just that and NOT....... implied that's what I said.
Manners dear boy.... manners please....
:aok
May want to recheck my post, old chap. I did quote you with 100% fidelity, and then RE-quoted the line in question. That requote included the ellipses (three dots) that identify material being snipped. I'm sure that any poor soul who actually read the ENTIRE post would completely understand that I had both adjusted font size and ellipsed for interpretative emphasis, implying my suspicion that you'd just as soon have the old system back...
Never meant to upset you, Lynx!.
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
I was just flying rooks midwar - 21 Bish / 34 knits / 8 rooks
Early war previously - i had a perk mod of 12 ...only 4 on my side (knits)
I think the ENY / Perk modifier is the way to go, just crank it up to where it "hurts / helps" more. Maybe even double or triple the mutliplier..
An extreme example would be if one side side is WAY over populated...they might have 80% of the planes / vehicles disabled... Hell, if it gets so bad - have the entire planeset / vehicles disabled...
That would definetly get players to switch. Even if the most loyal of all chess-piece lovers couldn't fly...I'm sure they'd eventually switch.
On the other side..if the perk mod was rediculousy hi...the lowest numbered side, could actually be paid perks just for taking off in a plane :)
On a side note....If a country is pushing towards reset and is over populated... Make the reset perks correlated with perk / ENY.
So If you win a reset and are way over populated...you might only make 10 perks instead of the 75....extreme example - you win and you have 20 perks deducted from your total because of the outnumbering.
could be a fun experiment....
This is interesting. I like it. Imagine the whining, though. It's bad enough when the big 4 are disabled. :t
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now this would be a hoot
you win and you have 20 perks deducted from your total because of the outnumbering.
That'd be funny :rofl
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Just turn off base capture and end the "war winners" game completely. Stop giving reset perks. Make the only point of flying the game be "to find good fight" (in 30 seconds). That will eliminate any need to have overwhelming numbers in any section of the map.
One big DA.
Pull the plug.
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Originally posted by Booz
Just turn off base capture and end the "war winners" game completely. Stop giving reset perks. Make the only point of flying the game be "to find good fight" (in 30 seconds). That will eliminate any need to have overwhelming numbers in any section of the map.
One big DA.
Pull the plug.
what would be the point of the game then?
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Originally posted by Overlag
what would be the point of the game then?
Shooting people down?
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Originally posted by Booz
Just turn off base capture and end the "war winners" game completely. Stop giving reset perks. Make the only point of flying the game be "to find good fight" (in 30 seconds). That will eliminate any need to have overwhelming numbers in any section of the map.
One big DA.
Pull the plug.
the really funny part is---you probably thought about that answer for a long time!!!:aok
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Originally posted by indy007
Shooting people down?
and what do ya do after you shoot somebody down??
oh yeah!!--shoot somebody down again!!! and then?
is this an arcade game?
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Originally posted by Booz
Just turn off base capture and end the "war winners" game completely. Stop giving reset perks. Make the only point of flying the game be "to find good fight" (in 30 seconds). That will eliminate any need to have overwhelming numbers in any section of the map.
One big DA.
Pull the plug.
the best yet!!!! just grab a roll of quarters and go down to your local video game arcade for that kind of game.:noid
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Well, with these changes the game becomes no different than any other Box game.... well, except that you pay $179.40 per year to play it.
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Originally posted by indy007
Shooting people down?
just shooting people down? doing just 1 thing all day would be boring
and the results of shooting people down???
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Originally posted by indy007
Shooting people down?
Why bother paying then? I can go to free 8 player just to shoot people or Hook up the LAN cable and do this. LOL
If HT turned off the WAR I'm gonna guess he would lose a crap load of cash.
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Originally posted by Flayed1
Why bother paying then? I can go to free 8 player just to shoot people or Hook up the LAN cable and do this. LOL
If HT turned off the WAR I'm gonna guess he would lose a crap load of cash.
also il2 which is about just shooting down... and that costs just 1 one off payment.
i play AH because its so "different" from other games... without the war aspect it will be just like any other fighter game..... boring
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I would not like it if it was strictly just an air-to-air game ... I do, on occasion, enjoy some captures and tooling around in GVs.
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Originally posted by 1Boner
and what do ya do after you shoot somebody down??
oh yeah!!--shoot somebody down again!!! and then?
is this an arcade game?
well if you do it in 1 area for long enough, eventually you run out of gas.
Why bother paying then? I can go to free 8 player just to shoot people or Hook up the LAN cable and do this. LOL
Don't know 8 people that I could talk into playing this @ a lan party (minus the con). When people break out their gamepads, and I break out the cougar & pedals... they lose heart and go back to counter-strike.
It's easier for me to jump into an arena and find a dogfight than it is to organize 7 other dweebs for h2h play. I pay for the convenience.
If HT turned off the WAR I'm gonna guess he would lose a crap load of cash.
Yeah, most likely. I don't really have anything against strat play. It's just so ridiculously simple in this game I no longer get any enjoyment from it, so if it went or stayed, I wouldn't even notice.
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Originally posted by indy007
Yeah, most likely. I don't really have anything against strat play. It's just so ridiculously simple in this game I no longer get any enjoyment from it, so if it went or stayed, I wouldn't even notice.
ok its "simple" but what else can it be? how would you make it not simple? honest question. Maybe your idea here could add more to the game? I agree that the strat system could do with a overhaul some way or another.
we also have a simple bombsite, but i guess one of the reasons for that was because the "average" player wouldn't bother with the site, and instead suicide bomb... but we STILL have that now. We keep mentioning only allowing bombs to drop from bombsite view (or level flight) but this issue has NEVER been addressed. and people have been mentioning this for 3+ years.
I wish the strat targets was bigger myself, like 4-8x bigger but bring back the less accurate bomb aiming methods. Within lets say a 8x bigger city you could have rail yards etc... targets that would be hard to hit from alt with the "old" bombsite, unless you are a pro.
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Overlag ... I have said this before in other posts, but not recently.
I believe that when CT is released, we will see aspects of that game creep into our different arenas (EW/MW/LW). The strat needed for CT should be easily transferred, at some time, into the MA arenas ... along with other CT bells and whistles. Have you seen the screen shots of the CT cities and strat targets ? ... they are huge.
I believe that the current separation of the arenas into different war time frames is pre-planning for the CT release. These different arenas can/could be used by CT participants to become more effective for CT missions or practice for CT missions without risk of screwing up their CT "pilot".
HT is pretty slick and I would bet that he is, or intends, to kill two birds with one stone ... If I were the designer, that is what I would be doing.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Overlag ... I have said this before in other posts, but not recently.
I believe that when CT is released, we will see aspects of that game creep into our different arenas (EW/MW/LW). The strat needed for CT should be easily transferred, at some time, into the MA arenas ... along with other CT bells and whistles. Have you seen the screen shots of the CT cities and strat targets ? ... they are huge.
I believe that the current separation of the arenas into different war time frames is pre-planning for the CT release. These different arenas can/could be used by CT participants to become more effective for CT missions or practice for CT missions without risk of screwing up their CT "pilot".
HT is pretty slick and I would bet that he is, or intends, to kill two birds with one stone ... If I were the designer, that is what I would be doing.
i not seen any CT screenshots, but i will have a search for them in a minute. I think CT will suit me 100%, not MA with huge numbers, but a CT style arena with huge numbers and proper missions with proper fights.
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Originally posted by Overlag
i not seen any CT screenshots, but i will have a search for them in a minute. I think CT will suit me 100%, not MA with huge numbers, but a CT style arena with huge numbers and proper missions with proper fights.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186231
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186232
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Originally posted by Overlag
ok its "simple" but what else can it be? how would you make it not simple? honest question. Maybe your idea here could add more to the game? I agree that the strat system could do with a overhaul some way or another.
Well you're asking me to basically build the framework for a new type of game. It's way easier said than done unfortunately :( But I'll give it a shot...
1) 20+ different base templates. A simple thing like making a guy actually look for a VH instead of it being in the exact same place every time. They would also get some mannable 88s or the fearsome Bofors 40mm at the larger bases.
2) Protect my style of strat (explained a few #'s down) with AAA sites. Lots more puffy ack, possibly even mannable.
3) Change the way troops work entirely. No little barracks and on/off way they work. Each base would have a number of little guys. If you up with them, they run to your transport, and can be redeployed or used to capture. Give them bazookas, panzershreks, light machine-guns, and mortars. If you drop them at a friendly town, they can form a perimeter and defend it. If more enemy troops than friendlies are in the town, a ticker much like BF1942 or WoW world pvp towers starts going, until it maxes to the heavier side and the capture is completed. Wouldn't even need towns really, you could drive 2 or 3 m3s into a treeline and assault the airfield directly. Hell, in an hour I can come up with complete ww2 infantry models fully rigged and animated. There's alot of tools now so even a complete coad nub like myself can put them into a 3d engine and play with them. Theoretically, you could even have infantry jump onto a tank & ride it into the fight. T-34s did this in Stalingrad (which the infantry was very, very lucky if they actually survived... iirc 95% did not).
The game would be much more interactive, more dangerous (new ways to die, new things to kill), and more immersive on the tactical level. It would add a new dimension if you've porked a base to pieces, but didn't bring enough troops to drive out the infantry that are hiding in the rubble.
4) Introduce wind into the main arenas and have it cycle around to not give any direction an advantage for more than half an hour.
5) Bring back the old bombsight that required a smidge of effort to use. As it is now, bombing from any alt is ridiculously easy. Open your e6b, match your calibrated speed to it, and you can't miss.
6) Change strat targets around. Right now, it's a square you drop bombs on. Anything you hit decreases its effectiveness. I'd make it into more of an actual city style layout, with the target factories dispersed inside it. Penalty points for collateral damage.
7) Don't have time to think it through heavily, but justify the danger of running the AAA, possible intercepts, with an effect that's really felt at the front (since, well, that's point of grand strategic bombing). It could be something simple as an ENY limit affecting that zone because their's no more factories left to turn out high performance props. That gives a much larger incentive to intercept strat bombers, and more reasons to fly their escort, and fights would develop.
8) Add new sizes to the ports. Allow 1, 2, & 3 CV task groups. Assign each CV group a finite amount of marines they are capable of landing to mesh with the base troop allotments.
9) Add independent radar stations. Right now 1 dweeb can suicide-pork the single tower, and that's not much you can do about it. If radar had multiple stations, it would require a much more concerted effort to reduce.
10) Use the existing trains & barges to deliver troops to bases, provided a valuable strategic target (rail lines, shipping lanes).
Right now base capturing is simple. Lets say it's a small airstrip..
Roll 4 or 5 heavy ponies (maybe an extra or 2 for gv cleanup), a goon, and as many 110s/mossies as you can muster. Drop VH, drop FHs, pork town, drop troops. Really, you can do it with even less guys and still make it 1 trip.
Attacks against strat targets, while they theoretically have an impact... lets be honest, is it even noticed?
Basically, there's no strategy in it at all. It's a quick tactical engagement, and that's it.
With the much more elaborate (and coad & hardware intensive) setup I outlined, you'd have 3 facets of war covered. You'd have tactical engagements... gvs & troops vs gvs & troops, air cover, etc. You'd have strategic attacks such as rail lines, shipping lanes, radar facilities, bridges, etc. Finally, you'd have grand strategic attacks such as buffs & escorts running the puffy gauntlet to hit factories, refineries, assembly buildings, etc.
That would be a "war" that I think would be fun to fight. Right now we're playing checkers... so I stick to pure air to air combat as best I can.
edit: I think what I outlined is similar to WW2OL to be honest. I played it for a month when it originally came out. The flight model sucked. Tried it again years later... the flight model still sucked. I geuss my ideal would be their ground game combined with HTC's air to air spiffyness.
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
IOn a side note....If a country is pushing towards reset and is over populated... Make the reset perks correlated with perk / ENY.
yes, but take for instance the last few resets ive seen (2 against bish). The numbers are even (give or take a few %), once the push for reset starts against a country, the players start to leave, and join the 2nd arena, INSTEAD of fighting. this in turn, makes it even more unfair for the remaining players, who then also quit. Making the reset easy as running autopilot all day.
mean while in the other arena, bish are having a great time resetting some other side... making people in THAT arena wana quit and join LW1, further increasing the imbalance.
hell the reset last night was 60knits, 50rooks, and 10bish. I left because i was bored.
indy.. great ideas
ive always wanted strat targets within large cities, rail yards for supplys, and flak batteries meaning you are under flak almost all the way to target etc. I started drawing some basic designs in MSpaint to include these things but didnt really like the way my effort showed up... it didnt match what was in my head.
I dont "agree" with multiple zones, prefer the 1 single zone, and all these main strat targets next to HQ, furthest from the front lines. 3 large bases around these would be part of the final 3 bases that you cant capture making sure that milk running of the strat would not be possible near the reset due to capturing a base right next to it. the flak batteries would also put off attempts to attack the 3 uncaptureable bases.
more local strat targets near the front lines would be supply lines or minor cites/small strat factories (for instance a local troop garrison factory or something)
CT hopefully will be more my kinda game, with these strat systems you've mentioned If you take out those factories deep in germany, the front starts to collapse. While some dont agree that strat bombings wins wars, it sure hell speeds it up. The allies would have never been able to land troops in france if it wasnt for the bombing of factories, and airwar (bombers brought fighters into the air to be killed). While Allied troops never landed on Europe in early war, there bombers helped speed up the defeat against russia.
slapshot thanks for the links. WOW they are fantastic would be cool if some of them made it into the MA style arenas
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Originally posted by 1Boner
the best yet!!!! just grab a roll of quarters and go down to your local video game arcade for that kind of game.:noid
Wow, you replied to the same quote TWICE! Nice!