Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Jackal1 on October 30, 2006, 06:00:41 AM
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For the gadget geeks. :)
What is the best solution for setting up speakers for surround sound?
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I have never been interested in home cinema so im no expert, but i belive most surround sound recievers comes with a mic or something that helps you with calibrating it just right. All you need to do is put the speakers in aprox the correct places and the unit does the fine tuning for you.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
For the gadget geeks. :)
What is the best solution for setting up speakers for surround sound?
Depends on the shape of your room and where things are relative to your seating arrangements. You'll also want to try and match brands and styles so you have a proper timbre across the board.
Three types of "surround speakers".
Standard speaker
bipolar speaker A speaker that produces sound equally from the front and the back. Unlike the dipolar speaker, the bipolar’s front and rear soundwaves are in-phase with each other.
dipolar speaker A loudspeaker that produces sound from the rear as well as from the front, with the front and rear sounds out-of-phase with each other.
Depending on where your seating is, you may have to place them beside, behind, above, or slightly in front of it, for the best sound.
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Thanks for the replies.
I have 52 inches of high def heaven I`m trying to get set up. :)
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the standard surround sound is a 6 speaker system, RF, LF, RR, LR, a center speaker and a powered sub woofer. The sub can go anywhere, the other speakers need to "surround" you.
Then you have to find programs that broadcast in true 5.1 sound, my sony give me a pretty blue light when the show has 3/2 sound which is 5.1 surround sound.
I had to run my speaker cables up and through the attic to get to the two rear speakers.
gl
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Ditto....subwoofer frequencies are omnidirectional so you can place it anywhere, but the best effect would be near your seating. Be sure to wire your speakers with the least amount of wiring possible so you can get the most power out of them(although the differences we're talking about could be barely noticeable) it is still a good idea.
If the speakers are floor free standing....try to keep people from placing drinks on top of them....I've seen 3 speakers ruined this way after the resulting spill.
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since were on the subject, whats the big deal anyway? the movie is in front of me, and thats where i darned well expect the sound to come from.
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In 2003 i was watching a movie at a friends house in 5.1 surround sound for the
first time.
5 days later i had my own 5.1 surround sound installed at home.
Watching a movie the sound alone have a minimum 50% impact to
enjoy it or not.
The sad thing is why i discovered 5.1 in 2003 and not earlier! :(
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Originally posted by vorticon
since were on the subject, whats the big deal anyway? the movie is in front of me, and thats where i darned well expect the sound to come from.
the difference is that the sound is divided into five channels and sent to your ears from five different sources. You will actually hear a helicopter circle your living room, or horses gallop across the room, birds chirping from the left while a stream babbles on the right. THen the sub kicks in for the lows, making explosions better than ever.
with the right tv and surround sound, you will give up on theater movies. They will sound and look better in your LR not to mention no $5 hotdogs, cell phones going off, kids crying or ppl talking during the flick..
watching jurassic park on a friends tele with surround sound sold me
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Originally posted by vorticon
since were on the subject, whats the big deal anyway? the movie is in front of me, and thats where i darned well expect the sound to come from.
That is how I feel too. Having expensive speakers all around the livingroom to get sound from were its not supposed to be is not for me, but thats just my taste.
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Nilsen, where you once in a movie theatre?
they also use 5.1, 6.1 or even 7.1 in a larger scale then
systems for home-use, but it is the same expirience.
Stereo vs. 5.1 its like day & night.
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
Nilsen, where you once in a movie theatre?
they also use 5.1, 6.1 or even 7.1 in a larger scale then
systems for home-use, but it is the same expirience.
Stereo vs. 5.1 its like day & night.
i just find it annoying. personal preference. besides you can probably get awesome stereo speakers for the price of a mediocre surround setup.
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Ofcourse ive been to a movie theatre Ghost. I know they use surround but that does not mean i want it in my home. That beeing said I havent seen a movie in a theatre since Star Wars episode one.
Im a snob when it comes to AV so im glad i dont want it. I would be ruined. My Stereo and TV cost me too much to even think about doing that brand in surround anyway :D
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I'm no expert by any means. Surround sound systems , can be pretty expensive.
I have a 52 inch HD TV and bought a Bose 3-2-1 system. It is basically simulated surround sound. It has a Sub-woofer and 2 speakers. How it really works I have no idea , but the sound is reallly nice.
My living room is basically 22 foot cielings and square. I have them set in front of me and I hear sounds from everywhere.
Try looking into that. May save you some money and give you a good sound. All the movies I have rented sound wonderful.
Just a thought.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
...im glad i dont want it. I would be ruined...
;)
well, we dont have the 5.1 in the living room, there we use
the simple TV speakers with build-in fake surround. Its more then ok for the
daily TV dose, watching news, ect.
The 5.1 setup is in a different room, just for watching DVD Movies,
i call it amusement-room...but thats another story;)
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I'll never go back, it will always be surround sound for me. Oh yeah, Karaya's suggestions rock, I have faith in him.
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It really depends on your budget, future plans, etc. etc. Try the Home Theater Forum, or the AV forum if you want help from people who discuss home theater the way we discuss aircraft. Warning, they look down on Home Theater in a Box. (HTIB) Their advice is much like Nilson's - look to spend as much as you can on a superb receiver with 7.1 capability and two awesome front speakers. Then add the center, surrounds and subwoofer as you scrape up the cash. For my budget (nil) and future plans (3 kids, college, etc. etc.) I went for an HTIB from Onkyo. I listened to many before I bought and that - to me - was the best bang for the buck. For my purposes and budget, it was perfect. You really need to listen to the speakers and receiver before you buy, whether you go high end, or an HTIB. Some think Bose is the best, others prefer JBL. You need to listen for yourself.
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Onkyo is a good brand. I used to have a stereo system 10-15 years ago with components from the Integra series with B&W and Mission speakers. It sounded great so I would trust that brand to deliver good in the home cinema deparment as well. Pioneer also has some good components if you go abit beyond the budget choises. Harman Kardon and Maranz should also be good. Never liked Sony or Yamaha for some reason.
I may hook up my next PC to a surround system in my office for gaming purposes but i wont spend 10k $ ++ for a setup for my livingroom. Im not that big on movies anymore so it would be wasted.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
For the gadget geeks. :)
What is the best solution for setting up speakers for surround sound?
Just because it's you Jack, I propose you put your head in a bucket :D
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Just because it's you Jack, I propose you put your head in a bucket :D
:rofl
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Just because it's you Jack, I propose you put your head in a bucket :D
:aok
Tryed that, but the new fangled buckets are all made of plastic now and have very poor acoustic ratings. :p
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In my experience, setting a system to "surround sound" tends to boost the background noise and music to a level that makes dialog harder to hear.
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On my gaming PC, I'm running a good old Sound Blaster Audigy, and a Creative 5.1 system. It's pretty much overkill for what I use it for (Aces High/WoW/CoH/CS).. rolling buffs can make your guts vibrate.
On top of that, I have a creative labs speaker stand that I believe is out of production. It's a base plate that sits under your monitor, and has 2 adjustable arms that hold the rear channel speakers behind your head.
Here's an older pic of my setup, quite a bit has changed... except for the arms holding the speakers.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/indyallen/Allen/165602.jpg)
I dig it.
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When building a surround set it's imperative to get 5-7 matching high quality speakers and a good surround amp to run them.
Expect to pay in excess of $2500 for a decent amp and $5000 for 5 decent speakers. Even better solution is to get a non-integrated surround amp in which case the price is up to $5000 for the amp alone.
Or you could just buy a Red Rose Audio clone from china for $650 (suggested retail price $5000 in the US).
In any case as long as the amp is half decent, the emphasis should be put to speakers. They will define the overall quality of any audio system.
For anyone interested, high quality speakers can be found at http://www.martinlogan.com for example. They sell ht sets too.
The speaker positioning has to be symmetrical, usually 3-4ft clearance should be left to all walls (including the sub) and the adjustment is best made by calibrating with a handheld sound pressure meter ($40 radioshack will do).
Also listening room acoustics is really important especially with smaller rooms. Lots of heavy furniture, wooden construction etc. are beneficial for listening room acoustics. Concrete walls, hard surfaces in general are very bad.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
For the gadget geeks. :)
What is the best solution for setting up speakers for surround sound?
If you're investing in a surround sound set up, be sure your sound card has SPDIF... having SPDIF will allow you to use your 5.1 PC speakers with a cable / dish / direct TV box. I have these, the speakers sound pretty good for being cheap.
Turtle Beach Roadie (http://www.turtle-beach.com/site/products/audioadv/roadie/producthome.asp) 5.1 or 7.1 with SPDIF in/out $79.00, and Logitech X-540 (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2177,CONTENTID=12254) speakers $99
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Originally posted by Dago
In my experience, setting a system to "surround sound" tends to boost the background noise and music to a level that makes dialog harder to hear.
Dialog comes from the Center channel, and even less from the Mains (r/l). My guess are the speakers are not calibrated properly. I.E. the rear channels are driven improperly by an increase of db. Surround channels are meant to "enhance", that is it.
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Originally posted by dhaus
It really depends on your budget, future plans, etc. etc. Try the Home Theater Forum, or the AV forum if you want help from people who discuss home theater the way we discuss aircraft. Warning, they look down on Home Theater in a Box. (HTIB) Their advice is much like Nilson's - look to spend as much as you can on a superb receiver with 7.1 capability and two awesome front speakers. Then add the center, surrounds and subwoofer as you scrape up the cash. For my budget (nil) and future plans (3 kids, college, etc. etc.) I went for an HTIB from Onkyo. I listened to many before I bought and that - to me - was the best bang for the buck. For my purposes and budget, it was perfect. You really need to listen to the speakers and receiver before you buy, whether you go high end, or an HTIB. Some think Bose is the best, others prefer JBL. You need to listen for yourself.
HTIB are good for "More Movies, Less Music".
I will never buy a Bose product, they are inferior by many lengths and are pure "marketing hype". They don't use subwoofers, as their "bass module" is marketed as just that, because it only has two 5 1/4" drivers inside it. Not to mention the frequncy response holes, or the fact that NO Bose literature, mentions the Frequency Response.
Out of 15 buddies, only Goth is the one that listened, and was happy. Why? The 14 others "sought to prove me wrong". They gripe about their systems to this very day, past and present.
Mr. Ripley's post is superb, but Martin Logan's are setting you back more than $5000.
I love my KEF's.
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Some great input and info. I appreciate it gents.
Indy....that setup is awesome. :D
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Some great input and info. I appreciate it gents.
Indy....that setup is awesome. :D
ty :) There is one drawback to the audio bubble. Somebody can sit right next to me, and I have absolutely no clue wtf they're saying. The house could burn down, and I'll still be trying to win the merge.
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Originally posted by Dago
In my experience, setting a system to "surround sound" tends to boost the background noise and music to a level that makes dialog harder to hear.
You have to setup the Surround System first, make the Center box louder
and decrease the loudnes of the rest box'es. Every DVD comes with a different
Sound print, some movies tend to have background sound louder then
others.
Look at your DVD Player Manual for "Dynamic Range",
you can manually set it up or if you have a more modern DVD player,
you can let the player do the Dynamic Range Setup on the fly,
some call it the "Midnight Mode".
Look on the web for more infor about this mode.
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I saw some comments about sub-woofer placement which made me cringe. Typically, the best place for a sub-woofer is in a corner. Out in the open, you can be left with a standing wave issue which can muddle mid-range sounds in the various harmonic frequencies of the sub-woofer output. Standing waves are bad.
But, yes, sub-woofer sounds are felt more than they are actually heard.
The quality of sound is all dependent on the budget. If you are on a low budget, do not go to a high-end audio store, with a good theater room setup and listen to it. You do not know what you are missing if you never hear it.
And no matter how good the equipment is, if you do not properly calibrate it for the room conditions, you will never get the best sound out of it. I, and I imagine a couple of others here, could go into a rather lengthy list of things to look out for in a room when trying to get the best sound from it. But most would not even care about that.
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Skuzzy, a corner or wall placement actually maximises standing waves. The reason why some people prefer it is because it maximises also the output through the standing waves.
The ideal placement to reduce standing waves would be in the middle of the room. But that way you get the least output i.e. need bigger and more powerful sub.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Skuzzy, a corner or wall placement actually maximises standing waves. The reason why some people prefer it is because it maximises also the output through the standing waves.
The ideal placement to reduce standing waves would be in the middle of the room. But that way you get the least output i.e. need bigger and more powerful sub.
In about 5% of the room placements, the center of the room would be ideal. Roughly 95% of the rooms would be enhanced by 3' from each wall of a corner.
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Enhanced yes, but through standing waves as I said. If you want a rollercoaster of a frequency response, go ahead for a corner placement.
The only scenario where I could recommend a corner placement is a horn subwoofer which will benefit from the corner in a big way.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Enhanced yes, but through standing waves as I said. If you want a rollercoaster of a frequency response, go ahead for a corner placement.
The only scenario where I could recommend a corner placement is a horn subwoofer which will benefit from the corner in a big way.
Actually I'm glad you are an enthusist like myself Ripley.
Now a corner placement would be good, as long as other room treatments are implemented to offset. Most people don't realize that.
<> fellow HT guru
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Originally posted by indy007
ty :) There is one drawback to the audio bubble. Somebody can sit right next to me, and I have absolutely no clue wtf they're saying.
If you could figure a way to get the equip back in production I think you could make some serious bucks.
I don`t know if you realize it or not ,but you just wrote an awesome sales promotion ad with the above statement. A guaranteed sales ad for a specific user target consumer group..------------------> The married male. :lol
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Actually I'm glad you are an enthusist like myself Ripley.
Now a corner placement would be good, as long as other room treatments are implemented to offset. Most people don't realize that.
<> fellow HT guru
20 years of DIY audio. :D I design and build full-range electrostatic speakers.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
20 years of DIY audio. :D I design and build full-range electrostatic speakers.
Really, maybe you could post some pics sometime Ripley. I've always liked Martin Logans, Mangepans (Maggies) but fell in love with KEF's and Bowers & Wilkins.
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I've got a Panasonic model 900 projector in my basement along with a hi def sat receiver. For sound I have my beloved Magnepans and use a tube preamp with adcom power amps along with a subwoofer. Yes, 2 channel sound but fantastic 2 channel sound.
I have heard surround and like it, however I also like what I have. It just boils down to getting what you like and enjoying it.