Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: straffo on October 31, 2006, 03:03:43 AM
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After trying Vista yesterday ,there is one thing I'm sure : we need badly a linux version !
Vista is crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy and crappy
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What's the problem? XP is not going to disappear anywhere.
But you do have a point, linux support would be a great thing. I think the biggest problem at the moment is that most 3D drivers for linux are 50% slower than windows versions. It means a huge performance hit for linux players.
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play windows games on linux
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1628432,00.asp
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Man I only upgraded to Xp in 2004, 98SE did everything I needed until then...
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I've been doing some research on windows games on Linux.
The one common thread I find throughout is that all games that must use Direct X do poorly or not at all. Cedega, win4lin, all do much better with glide than Direct 3d.
In order to truly run AH well we not only need a AH port, we need better linux support for joysticks & direct x routines.
Ohh btw Handy this is clipped from the article you linked to.
" Thanks to the Cedega application, users have at least a chance at running some of their favorite Windows games on Linux -- the key word being chance. It all depends on a number of factors, one of which is, how much futzing are you prepared to do to make a Windows game run on Linux? If you're a seasoned Linux user, an afternoon spent twiddling .conf file can be fine entertainment. If you just want a "click-and-go" gaming experience, however, Cedega may not be for you.
We tried Cedega out on three different distributions (and with a bunch of games). The results were decidedly mixed. "
Pointed in the right direction, yes, worth paying hard cash for, not yet IMO.
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I know this is an old thread but I didn't want the "Use Search Button" whiners to chime in... This is an excellent Idea and would greatly lower hardware requirements to run AH2
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big yes on linux version :aok unfortunately it means rewriting in OpenGL, so I'll put that as a big #1 wish for AHIII then...
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One vote+
BTW, I think it will be possible to port AH2 to linux with quite low cost using wine/winelib like that was done for picasa.
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First off, to the person who said LINUX 3D drivers are 50% slower... that's a lie I would like to debunkify. Linux drivers are actually quite the opposite, often providing better performance, but not always.
The primary problem with exporting AcesHigh to Linux is the fact that it uses M$'s proprietary DirectX 3D system. Making the transfer to OpenGL, while not impossible, would be a monumental undertaking that I doubt HiTech is looking to do. That being said, emulation of DirectX is improving daily on the Linux side, and a reliable wrapper may be only a year or so out, but don't hold your breath. If HiTech were interested in redoing AcesHigh in OpenGL, they would also open a multitude of possibilities for graphical improvement. They can offload a ton of advanced rendering features onto the video card, something DirectX is not designed to do. Then there is always the cross-compatibility associated with OpenGL, allowing use in Windows, Linux, and Mac. Even then however, it would take a very refined graphics engine to efficiently use the power provided by OpenGL. Sadly, DirectX is an excellent example of how Microsoft pushed their product hard enough to ingrain it in a market. Now that many programs are going cross-platform and open-source, this is still one of the largest stumbling blocks for good gaming on other platforms.
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Actually You are talking about Direct3D, but it is not a "single" part of DirectX, there are also parts like: DirectSound - Sound API, DirectInput - Joystick/Keyboars API, Direct3D -- 3D API etc.
So in terms of porting you should also replace direct X with a layer like SDL or various tools like OpenAL etc.
Also there is lots of Win32 API like threads, libraries etc... So... it is not only about rewrite Direct3D to OpenGL...
However winelib or wine can give a solution in short terms because it implements most of M$ API...
IMHO, The non-windows market share is big enough and fast growing in order to think of supporting it.
BTW I have very smooth gameplay and performance under my linux box with Cedega.
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I just noticed this old thread and couldn't resist an update from my own experience.
I've been using AH1 and AH2 with Linux for almost a year, with great success. I use PcLinuxOS and Wine or Cedega. I get a much better framerate with Cedega, but even under Wine with modern hardware I consistently get framerates above 30 FPS. Under Cedega with AH2 I average 100 FPS in level flight over typical terrain on the same hardware. YMMV. The highest framerate I've ever seen was on AH1, when looking straight up into a clear blue sky with PcLinuxOs/Cedega, and framerate held at over 1,200 FPS. If you search for "LINUX" you'll find several posts from me and/or from Nikitis that explain what we did and the results on 5 or 6 different computers. On the same hardware, I get much better performance on Linux than from Vista (even after long, painful, extensive optimization of the Vista machine).
Joystick drivers under Linux require you to approach the hatswitch with a different strategy, but I overcame the initial confusion with the free "qjoypad" utility, which allows extensive programming of all joystick buttons. I've been active with Aces High since almost the earliest days (and for 10 years in Airwarrior before that), and this Linux setup is the best flight simulator I've ever had.
Regards,
-Peabody-
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since its been bumped, I'll just add that some tests I did a few years back showed native Linux games (RTCW, ET, AA) run with consistently better (15-20%) framerates and no glitches, with more stable pings. The effect on a borderline hardware/game combo like my old rig with AA is even more pronounced - smooth 35fps playable vs glitchy 25fps unplayable. Theres far more cpu overhead with Windows than you'd think.
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Now, I set up Fedora Core on my PC a while back and tried to get a flight sim running in it. It had a linux port (I didn't have to deal with cedega or wine, etc, which is good because I'm not *that* advanced in linux!!). However just reading countless help files and going online it took me forever to get a simple gameport joystick to show up properly. Now I've got a gameport stick, gameport pedals, and a USB throttle unit, I don't even know where to begin, if I had to go and do it in linux again.
Linux is very user unfriendly for setting anything up that it doesn't install right off the bat. A default install is very bare-bones in regards to peripherals. I don't believe I ever got my MS Prec Pro working satisfactorily.
There is no market for linux platforms because there is no standard. Unless you want a company like Hitech Creations to make 1,000,001 copies of the same game, 1 for all 100,000,000 Windows users to share, and 1,000,000 for the 1,000,000 different kernel compiles of all the linux users, it's not practical.
As a side note, does anybody know a decent linux version that may or may not have good hardware support for joysticks, scanners, etc, with default install? That is to say it doesn't require recompiling the kernel the second you install said kernel? Perhaps a better way of asking is, "If one were to pick a platform to build AH for, which version of linux would you say is best in regards to joysticks and sound/video support?"
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Krusty asked:
"As a side note, does anybody know a decent linux version that may or may not have good hardware support for joysticks, scanners, etc, with default install? That is to say it doesn't require recompiling the kernel the second you install said kernel? Perhaps a better way of asking is, 'If one were to pick a platform to build AH for, which version of linux would you say is best in regards to joysticks and sound/video support?'"
I use PcLinuxOs V 2008 Minime. All of my peripherals worked immediately, with no need to recompile anything. This includes:
-- Logitech Extreme 3d Pro joystick (My son also uses it with an old Logitech Wingman 3d Pro Joystick)
-- Logitech Precision Joypad (I use 3 of these simultaneously, in addition to the joystick, for a total of 54 programmable buttons in addition to the hat switch and the usual set of analog controls for ailerons, rudder, elevator, and throttle)
-- nVidia GeForce 7950GT Display Adapter (also works with my laptop using GeForce 8600M GS)
-- Intel 82801 onboard sound (also works with my laptop using onboard Intel ICH8 HD Audio)
In order to make all 54 of the buttons on all of my game controllers simultaneously programmable, I had to add the free utility known as "qjoypad". That utility is quirky, and I had to spend a couple of days learning how to bypass its terrible, buggy, user interface. However, once I learned how to configure it by editing its configuration file, those problems disappeared and I found it to be very useful.
When I use the free, well-known "Wine" emulator for DirectX, I get framerates that are about 2/3 what I saw under Windoze Vista on the same hardware. When I replaced the free "Wine" emulator with the commercial "Cedega" emulator, my framerates doubled. I needed a full day to figure out how to install Cedega under PcLinuxOS2008 Minime, and an additional week to learn the secrets and quirks of Cedega. Compared to the frustrating, irritating, painful month I spent struggling to optimize Vista, Cedega was far easier.
One final thought: I began using Linux a long, long time ago, back when everything was quite primitive. I got a couple of systems working, and then I just ignored them, not updating them at all, for about 10 years. After 10 years, when I started paying attention again, I discovered the wonderful concept of "repositories". This is now the usual and customary way of obtaining optional, extra software modules and applications under Linux, and almost everything is available for free. If you don't know about repositories, you'll suffer needlessly. Once you give the repository system a try, you'll find that the vast majority of the old problems just melt away. In the case of PcLinuxOs2008 Minime, you'll need to use the repositories a lot, because the initial installation is "bare bones".
YMMV.
Regards,
-Peabody-
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Krusty:
I just read your post one more time, and I realized that some of your game control stuff uses the old Analog/Midi connector ("Game Port") interface. I have no experience with that; all of my stuff is USB. I don't know if PcLinuxOs will help you at all with the old Game Port controllers.
Regards,
-Peabody-
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After trying Vista yesterday ,there is one thing I'm sure : we need badly a linux version !
Vista is crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy crappy and crappy
with decent tuning (FSautostart works with VISTA) vista works alright to me, after some time you get used to it and its hard to go back to XP.
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Krusty, the ported games I've used have been installable on any Linux AFAIK, so only one Linux version would need development. The games I played were all shooters so only k/b and mouse support required.
I've stuck with Redhat since ?3 and now on FC7, but I guess the answer to which distro is whatever you're used to. The reason being that if I need to compile from source rather than install an rpm (repository), I know what the paths/switches should be for Fedora because i've done it (many times) before. The process is the same for all distros, although the major players may be easier because 1. there is probably a binary rpm already out there for them and 2. if there isn't, you'll need to do less tweaking to get it to compile.
An exception would be a distro which already comes with all the necessary hardware support (if there is one.)
edit: another key factor for choosing a distro is the amount of support out there for it. If I run into a problem with Fedora, I can almost guarantee that others have too and will have found a solution. With an obscure distro with a userbase of 50, I'm probably on my own...
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Using AHII under XP I'm having freezing and disco problems. :(
Using AHII under Linux I don't have any kind of problems (except for a low frame rate -10/20 in crowded area- due to my old hardware) :aok
linux is much better for gaming and in particular online-gaming than windows. I don't want to go deeper in details and examples, could take too long
:aok
Krusty:
I just read your post one more time, and I realized that some of your game control stuff uses the old Analog/Midi connector ("Game Port") interface. I have no experience with that; all of my stuff is USB. I don't know if PcLinuxOs will help you at all with the old Game Port controllers.
Regards,
-Peabody-
I got My AHII running on Xubuntu under cedega, with an ancient microsoft precision pro joystick running with all its 9 buttons and it's a gameport joystick, a bit tricky to configure the throttle and hatswitch on AH but once u get how to do it, it's very easy to configure. you need only to load a couple of modules (i got the link to the How-to but it's in italian).
:salute
Sincerely
100Chewi