Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dago on October 31, 2006, 01:20:01 PM
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The liberals on this board will no doubt be all giggly with their hero, John Kerry and his latest attack on US servicemen and women.
Saw him on CNN and his statements was "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
Yup, all who served in Iraq are not, in Kerrys opinion, smart people.
He is now trying to blame his comments on the GOP, but he is on video making his comment. What a scumbag, first insulting our military, then not even accepting responsibility for his statement and trying to blame others.
Seem to remember him badmouthing soldiers while they were fighting in Vietnam too.
Yeah, the liberals hero.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226490,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226490,00.html)
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Kerry is a genuine ugly man a heart.
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That's no suprise there. Our current military is one of the most highly eduacted militarys in the history of man kind. There are a huge amount of enlisted members with degrees as well as a good deal of them currently persuing masters degrees. They do this all while they serve their country.
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A prefect example of his elitist attitude towards men who actually work for a living as oppossed to inherited or married into money... How could a guy who has never really worked a real day in his life be expected to understand us who do have to work everyday to survive...
But was that Kerry the idiot talking or Kerry the calculating genius..
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Originally posted by T0J0
But was that Kerry the idiot talking or Kerry the calculating genius..
Pretty sure only the first one exists.
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From that article....the quote of the day:
In a year in which, again, on these key issues, the Democrats don't have a plan, it does appear that they have an anger management problem
Tony Snow
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Whenever I listen to him speak, it reminds me of Mr. Howell on Gilligan's Island.
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in related news, sen kerry has applied for a 4th purple heart award, the latest is for shooting himself in the foot during a speech.
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Is this a "daisy chain"? Or one of those circle thingies?
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^ the pivot man arriveth ;)
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come on MT, defend your "war hero"
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is this a "daisy chain"? Or one of those circle thingies?
Apparently it's the latter.
Kerry has a valid point. It's been a valid point all thru history. Nothing new about this. Just ask most of the current administration what they did during the war.
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"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
I am no fan of Kerry, but when I first read that quote I assumed he was talking about the Bush Administration and not members of the US military.
Turns out if you listen to the speech in its entirety, he was referring to the Bush administration.
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its one of those circle thingies like the MJFox party MT, only going in a different direction ;)
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It is unfortunate that these:
(http://www.valorremembered.org/images/SWP_SilverStar.jpg)
(http://www.vvaa.org.au/images/med-bs10.jpg)
(http://www.kshs.org/cool3/graphics/purpleheart.jpg)
only count if you happen to be one of these:
(http://static.flickr.com/19/92987376_6ad10a7d57_m.jpg)
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who said anything about medals? the guy is a pompous prettythang
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I think by and large that is accurate. ~30% of the people in the United States have bachelors degrees. What is the percentage of enlisted personnel with bachelors degrees?
I seem to recall we had a discussion like this not to long ago.
Don't get me wrong, I think the military is a great option for young people coming out of high school. I wish I had served coming out of high school, I think I would be a better person than I am now.
But to castigate the guy for basically saying "College is the way to success".. well, I think that seems harsh.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I think by and large that is accurate. ~30% of the people in the United States have bachelors degrees. What is the percentage of enlisted personnel with bachelors degrees?
I seem to recall we had a discussion like this not to long ago.
Don't get me wrong, I think the military is a great option for young people coming out of high school. I wish I had served coming out of high school, I think I would be a better person than I am now.
But to castigate the guy for basically saying "College is the way to success".. well, I think that seems harsh.
College = success?
I joined the military to help pay my way through college. I learned far more about honor, respect, duty and all else that I value in the military than college. Your selfish lack of insight is despicable.
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Originally posted by Urchin
But to castigate the guy for basically saying "College is the way to success".. well, I think that seems harsh.
Define success? I know a lot of people that make > $100k/yr. None of them have degrees. I'm even fortunate enough to be one of them. Hooray for autodidacts?
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Well, if Kerry had said that one should strive for in college for an education otherwise you'd be one of the blind and ignorant masses supporting Herr Bush then Kerry would have been right on target with his comments.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Well, if Kerry had said that one should strive for in college for an education otherwise you'd be one of the blind and ignorant masses supporting Herr Bush then Kerry would have been right on target with his comments.
ack-ack
I served 20 years, right out of High School. Earned a B.S. while an enlisted man. I was neither blind nor ignorant. Nor am I now.
Other than Kerry's service time, he has not "worked" an honest or dishonest day of his life. He married rich twice. To his credit the second one was richer than his first wife.
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I know of virtually no one in my upper middle class, 98 percent college bound northern Chicago suburb that went on to serve in the military. I can count them on one hand (myself included) though there may actually be another hand's worth out of my graduating class of 600 that I don't know about. You see, the military is for losers with no other opportunities :aok
How many socialites serve their country anymore like they were obliged to in the past (Kennedy's Roosevelts, etc.)? Are the "Hilton" types, who reap the absolute most that America has to offer, putting anything back? (Not counting the charity figure their accountants recommend after taking advantage of every other tax loophole they can.)
How many politicians of any stripe bother to serve? Or the Ivy League swells that get the free ticket to power in politics, the press and industry? The nickname set -- the "Scooters" and "Brownies" -- the Hampton’s crowd.
For me, that is one of the major reasons I support some form of (no easy out) selective service (with both military and community service options). We have a "leadership class" that is removed from the realities of 95 percent of the average population. A leadership class that is more akin to vampires or parasites, IMO. What’s a joke is that they can play the partisan politics game and all us common folk just eat their **** and let their special interests buy the best Washington the top 0.5 percent of the population can buy. They give us “folk” a $300 tax break (sort of) and we smile, while they bank an additional $3 million off of the measly 15 percent they might have been stuck paying in the first place. Perhaps a fair flat tax for all with the only loophole being a 5% to 10% reduction for an honorable discharge from the selective service program would be fair.
Here’s an interesting article on how it may be the “fairly rich" that ultimately reign in the excesses of the super wealthy.
Revolt of the fairly rich (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/10/30/8391806/index.htm?postversion=2006102508)
Charon
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Originally posted by Gunthr
who said anything about medals? the guy is a pompous prettythang
He was called a "War Hero" with the snide-remark-quotes.
Who said he wasn't an ass?
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as with every other elistist liberal. there is nothing new in that post and it comes as no surprise to any thinking American. why do people even bother with this man?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
It is unfortunate that these:
(http://www.valorremembered.org/images/SWP_SilverStar.jpg)
(http://www.vvaa.org.au/images/med-bs10.jpg)
(http://www.kshs.org/cool3/graphics/purpleheart.jpg)
wow, are those his real medals? Did you get them out of a dumpster or what?
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Well if he had any thoughts for 08. He might as well forget them now.
You can be sure the GOP and the vets wont
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In reference to the Kerry gaff... well, to be honest I thought he was referring to Bush, not our men and women in uniform.
He (Kerry) had been speaking about Bush immediatly before the remark and immediatly after... oh well, in politics, perception is everything - and a quote taken out of context can kill a career (and an election).
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The thing about the word "uneducated" is that it is one of the least permanent words in the world.
I don't think anyone would dispute that after a few years in the military, the term no longer applies to you.
I also think it would be a bit group-huggy to suggest that a few hours before bootcamp, the term doesn't apply to many on the bus.
Edit - I guess pretty much in the same way that the term would or wouldn't apply to anyone that graduated from a university, or was on their way to one.
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Sen Kerry should have married Jane Fonda... That way it would save me travel distance from grave to grave just to urinate on them.
Oh BTW I'm a Hard Right Wing Reagan Republican. Served 20 Years in the Army, Airbourne Recon, crawled through tunnels in Asia and have a College degree. Univ of Maryland. Medals/Ribbons are nothing but cloth and metal. Seen many people get watermelon that they didn't deserve.
Wait didn't Kerry throw his medals over the White House fence in '73? Noooo... it was his friends metals.... remember when Kerry testified before Congress that Nam was an Unjust War? And I remember him saluting before the DNC that he was reporting for duty. But wait, it gets better. He has a plan... never outlined chit... a plan for what? Kerry?
What bothers me is someone actually voted this ****** as a Senator. Can you all say the word "Liberals" Boys and Girls.
Kerry has no balls. At least Hillary visited Iraq once... she's about as worthful as Kerry anyways.
America needs to be strong. You don't get strong with Democrats, you get suckered into paying taxes for Liberal wetdreams such as the snail darter, NAFTA and crap. Jimmy Carter and Michael Moore should get a room together...and all your Hollywood favorites. How many of them have left America yet after they said they would if we went to War? Not ONE!
And the Michael J Fox crap... you can see him many times on different political shots not twitching at all.. WTF are you so blind that you can't see?
As for me I am not a sheep and will not follow BS. It's time for a
"Free America" Only the voters, the legal registered ones, can make it happen!
I, myself, will place a Manger with the Christ child, Angels, the three Kings with sheep and donkeys infront of the public Library in my town and defend it with a baseball bat and love. Screw with it. BTW it's a "Christmas Tree" and it's "Christmas" Not a Holiday Tree or XMas.
America, Love it or Leave it!
Mac
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who in the blazes is jim kerry?
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Originally posted by AWMac
I, myself, will place a Manger with the Christ child, Angels, the three Kings with sheep and donkeys infront of the public Library in my town and defend it with a baseball bat and love. Screw with it. BTW it's a "Christmas Tree" and it's "Christmas" Not a Holiday Tree or XMas.
America, Love it or Leave it!
That's not America.
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Originally posted by Vudak
That's not America.
if you had thought it through a little better you could have used a song title to make your point.
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Originally posted by storch
who in the blazes is jim kerry?
heh he edits it to read sen. kerry. what a buffoon.
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Originally posted by Vudak
That's not America.
Tell me then "Vudak" what you invision as "America"?
Mac
Geez pick one lil thing out, didn't mention the political crap whatsoever.
Liberal.
Mac
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ya what are you invisioning here, hmmm?
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Originally posted by storch
heh he edits it to read sen. kerry. what a buffoon.
Speaking of "Buffoon" Storch when are you gonna teach me that "You Can't Shoot me on a Dead Stick Landing" Thing... still waiting Bud.
Mac
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Originally posted by AWMac
Tell me then "Vudak" what you invision as "America"?
Mac
Geez pick one lil thing out, didn't mention the political crap whatsoever.
Liberal.
Mac
Actually I thought the rest of your post was pretty good. It's just that one little part that irked me. We are, after all, trying to portray soldiers as educated in this thread, and then you go and show that after 20 years of defending the Constitution, you evidently never bothered to read it.
If I'm a liberal, well, first of all I'd like my contribution to the GOP back, and second of all, the only reason I'd be called one is because my strict interpretation of the Constitution doesn't find a way to finagle Christ into it.
Shrug.
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He's told that 'joke' at other venues and it came off correctly then, leave it to the wacky righties to twist and distort his words and their meaning, that is all they have and it's getting truly pathetic.
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and it's peeps like you that stand and scream seperation from Church and State... it's in the Constitution....NOT. That came from a Letter from Jefferson to the Baptist Church that the Govt would not side with one Religion verses another. Finagle Christ into it? It's the Liberals that have done so.
Was this an issue in the '50's? '60's? '70's or '80's? No. Not until the Libs ran out of things to bicker about.
Lets rewrite the Consititution to fit your needs. Lets rewrite the Bible just the same. What's your stand on Ghey Marriage?
Mac
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Originally posted by Flatbar
He's told that 'joke' at other venues and it came off correctly then, leave it to the wacky righties to twist and distort his words and their meaning, that is all they have and it's getting truly pathetic.
Gee, wacky liberals never partake in such activities do they? Frankinkerry deserves what ever he gets.
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Changing bait now...so many fish, so little time....
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Tonight is the only night that John Kerrys wife can go out unhassled....
Bet she comes home with a puzzled look and alotta candy!
*shivers*
Mac
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jim kerry is a funny faced comedian that makes bad jokes, john kerry is a funny faced comedian thats makes bad jokes and wanted to be president of the USA.
john heinz-kerry "i did not mean what you think i said i meant until i said it meant something else"
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Originally posted by john9001
jim kerry is a funny faced comedian that makes bad jokes, john kerry is a funny faced comedian thats makes bad jokes and wanted to be president of the USA.
john heinz-kerry "i did not mean what you think i said i meant until i said it meant something else"
~Touche~
Mac
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Guys, this will not be decided here.
Yes, Kerry is an idiot. It's well known, the dems can't argue against it. Unfortunately 99% of tthe rest of the politicians are idiots too, so far out of touch with reality that if defies imagination.
Sadly, most of America is out of touch with reality too, because we continually reelect all the 99% or replace them with 99 percenters that are just as bad. I say it is time to wake up America as a whole and vote honest people into the government that will actually accomplish something.
Oh, and Mac on your service....
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Originally posted by Urchin
I think by and large that is accurate. ~30% of the people in the United States have bachelors degrees. What is the percentage of enlisted personnel with bachelors degrees?
I seem to recall we had a discussion like this not to long ago.
Don't get me wrong, I think the military is a great option for young people coming out of high school. I wish I had served coming out of high school, I think I would be a better person than I am now.
But to castigate the guy for basically saying "College is the way to success".. well, I think that seems harsh.
You need to compare all of the military witth the civilian sector, not just enlisted. Furthermore, you need to include all those who served then got and pursued their education. Kerry is the one being stupid. And, last but not least, education can fix ignorance but not stupidity.
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It is simply an insult to every American who has ever served our country.
PERIOD!!!
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Originally posted by Flatbar
He's told that 'joke' at other venues and it came off correctly then, leave it to the wacky righties to twist and distort his words and their meaning, that is all they have and it's getting truly pathetic.
he oughta just move to france and get it over with...
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You are all incorrect.
Kerry's quote was not a stab at servicemen/women. It was a stab at Bush. He was saying that bush was uneducated and as a result america has ended up in iraq.
Of course, taking the quote completely out of context makes for a much better sound bite.
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=44314
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Originally posted by Gryffin
You are all incorrect.
Kerry's quote was not a stab at servicemen/women. It was a stab at Bush. He was saying that bush was uneducated and as a result america has ended up in iraq.
Of course, taking the quote completely out of context makes for a much better sound bite.
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=44314
It's doesn't make sense that he was talking about Bush. Bush has a degree from Harvard. It does seem like he was implying that the soldiers are the ones stuck in Iraq. I think Kerry screwed up and now he's trying to squirm out of it.
I'm sure Kerry didn't mean the comment as a jab at the service men (even though it was), but in his twisted mind he was trying to blame Bush for the demographics of the enlisted ranks. He and a lot of libs like to try and say that he military is exploiting the poor and the uneducated.
Kerry is pretty sickening.
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The comment was not at all about Bush, that is an back peddling excuse.
He was speaking to students and he said
"You know, education, if YOU make the most of it, YOU study hard, YOU do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, YOU can do well. And if YOU don't, YOU get stuck in Iraq."
I don't see anything in there about President Bush
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i dont see anything in ur post about kerry
not sure if it was clear, but im talking about kerry collins.
as Vince Young's backup, this is probably the last time you will hear anyone mention him
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Mac, you know, I thought for sure you were wrong. Went out looking at the Constitution thinking "of course the separation of church and state is in there!"
But... No, it isn't!
I guess I've just heard the lie so many times that it became truth :o
(I still think Separation of Church and State is a good thing, though).
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Ok, I'm confused. Considering Bush got better grades in college than Kerry did, does that make Kerry more ignorant than he is accusing Bush of being? If that's the case, Kerry cannot possibly be right and has proven Bush to be correct by virtue of his own arguments.
What I Really don't understand is how Kerry can suggest, let's say he wasn't backpedaling, that Iraq was the wrong thing to do. Kerry stated before that even knowing what he knows now, would he "still" have voted in favor of the Iraq War and he said Yes. Was That just a campaign ploy? He didn't really mean that?
He has no credibility, whatsoever.
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Separation of church and state is written in the constitution just as clearly as the right of every individual American to keep and bear arms without restriction.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Separation of church and state is written in the constitution just as clearly as the right of every individual American to keep and bear arms without restriction.
Well, yeah. That's the problem with my whole "strict interpretation" rant lol.
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Nowhere in the second amendment is the word "restriction" to be found?
Not to argue the point, but Im sure some lawyer somewhere will argue that you can restrict specifically without infringing generally :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Separation of church and state is written in the constitution just as clearly as the right of every individual American to keep and bear arms without restriction.
Wrong. But then, you knew that.
The Constitution, more specifically the Bill of Rights, says the government shall not establish a religion. It also says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Context clearly shows that the first is in reference to the Church of England, which was established by the King of England because he (the government in this case) wanted a church he could control and deal with. And the second is in reference to the King of England's attempt to disarm the colonists.
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the separation of church and state was a sentence in a letter jefferson wrote to weezie. the right to bear arms is granted to all bruins, sheesh you liberals are really sad.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Mac, you know, I thought for sure you were wrong. Went out looking at the Constitution thinking "of course the separation of church and state is in there!"
But... No, it isn't!
I guess I've just heard the lie so many times that it became truth :o
(I still think Separation of Church and State is a good thing, though).
Hey, that's a mistake more people than not have made in recent years.
I don't think even the most conservative of us believes the church should have any control over the government. However, I don't think that most people want God eliminated from anything remotely connected to the government either. And I don't see ANY evidence that the people who WROTE the Constitution or any of the original amendments known as the Bill of Rights thought it was a good idea either.
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Originally posted by storch
the separation of church and state was a sentence in a letter jefferson wrote to weezie. the right to bear arms is granted to all bruins, sheesh you liberals are really sad.
And so the conservatives have taken the field in the realm of US History. A point has been awarded.
Next category: Science :p
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Originally posted by Gryffin
You are all incorrect.
Kerry's quote was not a stab at servicemen/women. It was a stab at Bush. He was saying that bush was uneducated and as a result america has ended up in iraq.
Of course, taking the quote completely out of context makes for a much better sound bite.
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=44314
I have served my country honorably for the last 11 years of my life. I never went to college and I took it as an insult. Tell me I'm incorrect!
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The "new" Navy requires that you obtain degrees at certain points in your career. If you dont achieve the required degree you are shown the door. But the "new" Navy will make it almost impossible to not obtain the degree as long as you serve your time. This goes for enlisted as well as officers. This should be in full effect early into my career.
Someone mentioned selective service. If they meant that a draft of sorts would be beneficial I have to disagree. Ive talked to many old salts and they all agree that during Vietnam and for a short time after their Navy was in ruins do to the large numbers of personnel that either did drugs or had none of the qualities of a sailor (honor, courage, commitment). One vet made the analogy that it was like the Navy had a stroke of sorts. It took time to recover and weed out the problems, but overall it came back stronger and better. I personally would leave the military as soon as soon as possible knowing that I had to serve with others that had no respect toward their job or had none of the many reasons that servicemen and woman serve their country. Servicemen and women's lives are already dangerous and tasking enough without screwups adding to their problems.
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How about you're overreacting.
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Originally posted by rpm
How about you're overreacting.
It doesn't make sense as a joke, then again kerry doesn't seem like he has a sense of humor.
Here's some stats about military education
Academic Education
-- 49.2 percent of officers have advanced or professional degrees; 39.4 percent have master's degrees, 8.5 percent have professional degrees and 1.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 22.8 percent of company grade officers have advanced degrees; 16.5 percent have master's degrees, 5.9 percent have professional degrees and 0.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 85.4 percent of field grade officers have advanced degrees; 70.7 percent have master's degrees, 12.1 percent have professional degrees and 2.5 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 99.9 percent of the enlisted force have at least a high school education; 73.3 percent have some semester hours toward a college degree; 16.2 percent have an associate's degree or equivalent semester hours; 4.7 percent have a bachelor's degree; 0.7 percent have a master's degree and .01 percent have a professional or doctorate degree."
http://www.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?storyID=123027385
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I agree the military has become smarter over the years. They became much more selective on recruits and required continuing education. But the fact remains that the rich and highly educated are going into the private sector, not the military. This is especially true during war. Same thing today as 150 years ago.
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Originally posted by rpm
I agree the military has become smarter over the years. They became much more selective on recruits and required continuing education. But the fact remains that the rich and highly educated are going into the private sector, not the military. This is especially true during war. Same thing today as 150 years ago.
The highly educated are usually the ones that have the money to afford a higher education. I believe that children raised in homes with money not being a problem are raised without the same morals and mindset as children raised in families with money being a major factor in day to day life. Im not saying rick children have no morals are and satan's spawn. Im saying that their morals and beliefs play a lesser role in their lives compared to the middle and lower class families. These children in poorer families see the military as a sort of family for them that they can be educated, make money, and continue to live in a environment that morals play a bigger role in life.
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Originally posted by Gryffin
You are all incorrect.
Kerry's quote was not a stab at servicemen/women. It was a stab at Bush. He was saying that bush was uneducated and as a result america has ended up in iraq.
Of course, taking the quote completely out of context makes for a much better sound bite.
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=44314
Some hack from Kerrys clan said he omitted a few words, lol, apparently hes too stupid to complete the simple task of reading whats been written for him... and too dense to realize hes got athletes tongue from HIS OWN foot being shoved in his mouth.
Considering the company Kerry keeps (crime families top 20 congressional crooks) (http://www.beyonddelay.org/)), its not surprising. If any of these losers had to earn an honest days pay, it might cause their death.
I joined the Marine Reserves to help me get into law enforcement, at 21 years old I was making more than an average college graduate.. and got to carry a gun, all thanks to the Military... but now that I see the light, I now know the path to legitimacy includes botox injections, being neutered, and hooking up with ugly rich chicks.
BTW, am I the only one who can see potatoes growing in Kerrys eyebrows?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
It doesn't make sense as a joke, then again kerry doesn't seem like he has a sense of humor.
Here's some stats about military education
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Academic Education
-- 49.2 percent of officers have advanced or professional degrees; 39.4 percent have master's degrees, 8.5 percent have professional degrees and 1.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 22.8 percent of company grade officers have advanced degrees; 16.5 percent have master's degrees, 5.9 percent have professional degrees and 0.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 85.4 percent of field grade officers have advanced degrees; 70.7 percent have master's degrees, 12.1 percent have professional degrees and 2.5 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 99.9 percent of the enlisted force have at least a high school education; 73.3 percent have some semester hours toward a college degree; 16.2 percent have an associate's degree or equivalent semester hours; 4.7 percent have a bachelor's degree; 0.7 percent have a master's degree and .01 percent have a professional or doctorate degree."
http://www.af.mil/news/story_print....oryID=123027385
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought a bachelors degree was a requirement to be a commissioned officer in the armed forces? How can only have of all officers have one? Are they counting NCO's in that total of "officers"?
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
The highly educated are usually the ones that have the money to afford a higher education. I believe that children raised in homes with money not being a problem are raised without the same morals and mindset as children raised in families with money being a major factor in day to day life. Im not saying rick children have no morals are and satan's spawn. Im saying that their morals and beliefs play a lesser role in their lives compared to the middle and lower class families. These children in poorer families see the military as a sort of family for them that they can be educated, make money, and continue to live in a environment that morals play a bigger role in life.
That's a REAL wide brush you're painting with there, Blue...
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Originally posted by Urchin
I thought a bachelors degree was a requirement to be a commissioned officer in the armed forces? How can only have of all officers have one? Are they counting NCO's in that total of "officers"?
Another point of contention - the 99.9 percent of enlisted men who have at least a high school diploma surely counts those who have a GED. And anyone who's taken that test can tell you it's NOT the same thing.
Of course, I think I remember hearing that they were phasing out accepting GED kids and going full high school diploma, but I don't know what came of it, and I heard that fairly recently, so all enlisted men having a bona-fide h.s. diploma is certainly not the case now.
It really doesn't matter though... The military's as good a school as any college... It just concentrates on different things. Still useful, no doubt.
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
In reference to the Kerry gaff... well, to be honest I thought he was referring to Bush, not our men and women in uniform.
He (Kerry) had been speaking about Bush immediatly before the remark and immediatly after... oh well, in politics, perception is everything - and a quote taken out of context can kill a career (and an election).
Actually, you are PROBABLY right, but had a Repblican said it, it would be all over the NY Times and the Post, and not just Fox and bbs boards and talk radio
(btw, he and Bush got about the same grades:( )
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Originally posted by Urchin
I thought a bachelors degree was a requirement to be a commissioned officer in the armed forces? How can only have of all officers have one? Are they counting NCO's in that total of "officers"?
It's not specifically required in all cases to achieve a commission, but there's usually a push to complete it soon after commissioning if not already done.
There's also battlefield commissioning, but to my knowledge that hasn't been done in years. (I have an uncle who went to Vietnam as a private and left as a Captain.) People just aren't dying off fast enough to justify it these days.
Back on topic: I think Kerry meant to say one thing but said another. Still, it would come as no surprise to hear someone say something along the lines of get educated or get drafted. My mom used to say similar things to me back in my slacking days.
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Someone mentioned selective service. If they meant that a draft of sorts would be beneficial I have to disagree. Ive talked to many old salts and they all agree that during Vietnam and for a short time after their Navy was in ruins do to the large numbers of personnel that either did drugs or had none of the qualities of a sailor (honor, courage, commitment). One vet made the analogy that it was like the Navy had a stroke of sorts. It took time to recover and weed out the problems, but overall it came back stronger and better. I personally would leave the military as soon as soon as possible knowing that I had to serve with others that had no respect toward their job or had none of the many reasons that servicemen and woman serve their country. Servicemen and women's lives are already dangerous and tasking enough without screwups adding to their problems.
There was a draft in place between 1948 and 1973 (not to mention 40-45). The Vietnam experience was part of that time period -- a limited part -- with plenty of issues all its own not directly related to the draft. The military was part of a society in general that went though the "Summer of Love" the Civil Rights movement and an increasingly unpopular war overseas. There was a lot of change in a short period of time between 1967 and 1973. I haven't checked the numbers, but I wonder if you could have even fielded a Volunteer Army during that period that would have kept manpower levels anywhere near adequate compared to the basic needs. Of course, that's also the case today which is why we now have all the stop loss in effect, the highly paid civilian "contractors," the multiple reserve and guard tours and the plummeting enlistment standards to keep the numbers in the ball park. Frankly, if I were part of the volunteer Army today, going on my second tour in Iraq as a reservist or stop-lossed grunt, I would imagine I might be wondering why others aren't being called to help shoulder this burden. When you can't shop your way to victory, perhaps it's time to put up or pull out.
The late Col. David Hackworth who lead and was extremely successful turning the draftee "Hopeless" battalion into the highly successful "Hardcore" battalion in Vietnam (read Steel My Soldiers Hearts if you want to learn something about military leadership) had few problems with the draftee force. He was, in fact, far more critical of the career military of the time and failures like the 12-month rotation policy. This churned officers and NCOs which rapidly diluted experienced leadership very early in the war never to be fully recovered and removed the line soldiers once they were at their prime of experience. It also set an "X numbers of days and a wakeup" attitude that was counter productive. It created not only a heavily draftee force, but a "green" draftee force at virtually all levels in the field.
Hackworth proved that if properly led and motivated, draftees could achieve the same results as they did in WW2 and Korea (eventually) and through the bulk of the Cold War. Remember, draftees were what made the greatest generation great :) The draftees in fact provided a necessary counter to the careerists who let politics and advancement goals get in the way of mission too often -- they simply didn't have the career focus to put up with BS.
Today, the draft would expose people to others of different backgrounds, and to a higher cause and the service of a greater good. They would share a common experience. They would be future journalists, politicians, celebrities, teachers, college professors, athletes, corporate managers and others who have a place of influence in society but often a narrow world view and limited experience outside their own niche in society -- from elementary school to retirement. It would also give far more of the country some "skin in the game" for when we decide military action is justified. After all, if you support a war which might kill someone else's child, then you should be prepared to pay the ultimate cost yourself -- if it's actually worth it.
Charon
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Originally posted by indy007
Define success? I know a lot of people that make > $100k/yr. None of them have degrees. I'm even fortunate enough to be one of them. Hooray for autodidacts?
I guess it is possible you missed it, but there was this huge thing in the news just this past week I believe saying that a college degree was worth ~23,000 a year in income. I imagine that means that the average gap between someone with a college degree and someone without is around 23k.
23 thousand dollars is a nice chunk of change. Actually my father is in your boat, he does not have a college degree, he enlisted in the Navy out of high school, then went to work for NSA, he is making about 100k a year now.
God willing, when I get out of school this December and pass the first actuarial exam I'll start between 50-60k, and probably be making close to 100k in 3 or 4 years. That is 3 or 4 years against the 30 years that my father has been working.
A college degree means a LOT of extra money, over a lifetime. The military does have some extraordinary deals for education, I've looked into it. I haven't even ruled out enlisting if I can't land a job right out of school (I'm up to my eyeballs in debt lol). But for people to be expressing all this faux outrage at the nerve of Kerry to tell students to do well in school... it just strikes me as a "get out the vote" message to Republicans.
Face it - the days where you could come out of high school and make a comfortable living at a blue collar job are over. If you don't have any education, you got a rough, low-income, no insurance life ahead of you. A 4 year degree today is the high school diploma of yesteryear, and by the time my nephews are entering the workforce (in 18-20 years), I imagine a masters degree will be about standard.
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Originally posted by Urchin
God willing, when I get out of school this December and pass the first actuarial exam I'll start between 50-60k, and probably be making close to 100k in 3 or 4 years. That is 3 or 4 years against the 30 years that my father has been working.
Are you paying for your school and working?
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Working part time, school loans are financing the vast majority.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Working part time, school loans are financing the vast majority.
Thats good.
I was just wondering if your dad had anything to do with it.
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Oh no, no a penny :).
He's never offered, and I've never asked... it is high time he starts enjoying his life and his money. Plus he is actually eligible for retirement soon, I think around 5 years or so.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Oh no, no a penny :)
Well, then that's a very good thing to be proud of. I was initially thinking that you might have had some help from your parents in order to go to school and work part time.
Your dad sounds like he is a smart, hard working man. America is a great country and anyone willing to work can succeed here.
Even a dip watermelon like myself can do well here.
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From this thread, we can assume the obvious, the military is getting smarter, and Kerry is getting dumber.
All he does is marry ugly rich desperate women.
Thankfully he has yet to put in for a Purple Heart for his having to vote for the Iraq war, but it isn't over yet.
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You guys need to quit wasting your time paying attention to retards, and start electing people who actually do their job caring for the country's needs.
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i dont see how people reading my postings has anything to do with the quality of our.gov
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Having your wit would be a good deal of the problem taken care of..
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A nice try, but the Back-pedal of the Decade Award still goes to Mr. "We were never 'stay the course'." A cheeky classic.
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being 'educated' simply means you had no clue how to earn a decent wage without jumping through the hoops of your society. once the hoops have been navigated succesfully you get a piece of paper letting future employers know that you are good at jumping through hoops.
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i just wanted to learn more stuff.
:confused:
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
being 'educated' simply means you had no clue how to earn a decent wage without jumping through the hoops of your society. once the hoops have been navigated succesfully you get a piece of paper letting future employers know that you are good at jumping through hoops.
Well, there is a certain degree of jumping through hoops, but then again there is in any job, I'd imagine (or, at least there could be, dependent on your boss, the client, etc.)
What I will say about college as opposed to say carpentry is you are certainly exposed to many different viewpoints and opportunities. For example, the past few years or so we've had the ambassador from Syria, a few ambassadors and other officials from Israel, a congressional debate, the guy from Hotel Rwanda, sweat shop workers from a few Latin American states, President Bush, and a host of others come and speak at my university.
I would never, ever get those opportunities if I went off with my friends and became a carpenter. Not a chance.
Also - do you honestly think that it's easy to go to college? I mean, if you're grumpy with the jerk who's daddy pays his way and then he settles for C's... Yeah, I'll agree, they're chumps (and wasting their time IMO)... But getting high marks and something out of college is damn hard work. It takes a lot of effort and this "commitment" thing that keeps popping up in this thread.
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The problem is that college turns out as many fools and idiots as it does well educated people, if not more. But the fools and idiots end up in jobs that are way over paid in the current top heavy corporate environment.
The truth is, one realy big reason hands on blue collar jobs don't pay what they should is that too much is wasted paying mid and upper level management that consists mostly of non essential at best, if not completely useless or worse detrimental positions. And it isn't just people like me who say that (I have two years of college) it's people I worked with who were well educated, holding degrees in engineering and the like.
We have people in this country getting $50K a year and up to "manage" or "supervise" (and I use the term VERY loosely) retail personnel, when they cannot even stock a shelf or run a cash register. Why? Because they have a "degree" in "business management". That is not a rare occurence, it is a VERY common occurence. People like that are worse than non essential. They make the jobs of those below them twice as difficult, and they draw a salary that would pay two more people to run a register or stock a shelf, or wait on a customer. In order to pay an idiot with a degree, a group of people deal with stupidity that makes their job difficult, and a customer pays more for goods and gets poorer service.
I have a daughter in college, pre law to be specific. It is now worse, much worse, than it was when I was there 20 years ago. Never in my life have I seen more useless and baseless drivel written by people so out of touch with reality as I have in looking at some of her course material. Every cycle college becomes further removed from reality. What we have in "acedemia" now for instructors and authors of the books they use is people completely removed from the real world, and instead merely "educated" and insulated from that reality. And it continually gets worse.
We have a nation filled with educated idiots. These people populate mid management level positions and higher, and do NOTHING to contribute to the production of quality goods and services, and in fact most often greatly hinder the same, often to a great degree, and only increase the cost, by drawing a salary for making the cost go up. And yet we sit and wonder why we've lost our edge, why we continue to slip as a world economic power. All because Johnny and Jane got a "degree". One of the greatest obstacles to survival for this country is not the "ignorant" working man who has a high school diploma or a GED instead of a college degree. No, it is the STUPID "educated" person who supervises him simply because he has a BS, MS, or Phd, and cannot find his ASS with both hands and a manual on the subject.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Also - do you honestly think that it's easy to go to college? I mean, if you're grumpy with the jerk who's daddy pays his way and then he settles for C's... Yeah, I'll agree, they're chumps (and wasting their time IMO)... But getting high marks and something out of college is damn hard work. It takes a lot of effort and this "commitment" thing that keeps popping up in this thread.
Vudak, if you have graduated, or do graduate, from college actually having gotten a real education, then yes, you've worked for it and you've earned it. My sincere congratulations to you.
The problem is the five that graduated with you who did not (or will graduate with you and do not).
You can get through college without learning and without getting any sort of education, and get a degree, just like you can get through high school and do the same thing.
The difference is that college degree will get you a position that pays a lot more than the average educated idiot I've seen with a college degree is worth, and allows you to do a lot of harm and damage.
So, if you've done it right, then to you I offer a well deserved "way to go". Just don't allow yourself to be fooled into believing that even a majority of those you shared the halls with have done the same as you. They haven't.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
So, if you've done it right, then to you I offer a well deserved "way to go". Just don't allow yourself to be fooled into believing that even a majority of those you shared the halls with have done the same as you. They haven't.
I go to a state school, so I definately know what you're talking about times 10.
I haven't graduated yet. But I'll get there.
The thing is, I'm a high school dropout (basically since 9th grade, though I hung around and enjoyed the view for awhile). I pay much of my own way through college (I am more fortunate than most, I do have an aunt who has me on a generous scholarship program: I get an "A," I get reimbursed for the course. I get an "A-," I'm SOL).
"Scholarship" regardless, it wasn't easy getting accepted full time without any SAT's to speak of, and it's not easy passing classes. It takes a lot of work to get those A's, and a lot of sacrifices. Definately not as big of ones as someone in the army makes, granted, but sacrifices all the same.
So I do get a little irked when people suggest that college is a joke and the only people that really work for anything don't bother with a university.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The problem is that college turns out as many fools and idiots as it does well educated people, if not more. But the fools and idiots end up in jobs that are way over paid in the current top heavy corporate environment.
the solution for this is to to gut it up and go out on your own. start your own business. there is a real need in the current marketplace for people who work with their hands.
irrespective of the trade you select, if you follow this next pattern you will earn all the money you will ever need to live comfortably and retire well.
1. become licensed and insured
2. enroll in a continuing education program specific to your trade
3. advertise initially
4. be professional and have a sharp presentation, wash your truck weekly and keep it in good repair. I buy a new truck every ten years but they never leak oils or are all banged up.
5. show up for appointments on time or if delayed, call the customer
6. perform your work with pride and provide value to the customer.
7. give the customer more than than they paid for as compared to what your competition does.
8. stand behind your product or service.
in a few years step three becomes redundant and you may cancel. there will be a well beaten path to your door.
if you take the first dime out every dollar you earn and place it in a safe mutual market fund you will retire a very wealthy individual.
if you live in America the above is easy to do, you just gotta wanna do it
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Outstanding Vudak, congratulations on making the turn around, that's a wise decision even though it leads to a tough row to hoe. I'd say if you continue on your current path, and get out with an education as opposed to an indoctrination, you will truly be one of the few who have actually done something of value in college. Good luck.
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Originally posted by Urchin
A college degree means a LOT of extra money, over a lifetime. The military does have some extraordinary deals for education, I've looked into it. I haven't even ruled out enlisting if I can't land a job right out of school (I'm up to my eyeballs in debt lol). But for people to be expressing all this faux outrage at the nerve of Kerry to tell students to do well in school... it just strikes me as a "get out the vote" message to Republicans.
Face it - the days where you could come out of high school and make a comfortable living at a blue collar job are over. If you don't have any education, you got a rough, low-income, no insurance life ahead of you. A 4 year degree today is the high school diploma of yesteryear, and by the time my nephews are entering the workforce (in 18-20 years), I imagine a masters degree will be about standard.
Right on. 3 quick things.
1) Debt is bad. Parents hammered that into me, so my total lifetime debt has never been > 5k. That's pretty much chump change as far as debt is concerned. Unfortunately for them, my friends with degrees haven't gotten a good ROI, and are further in debt than when they started.
2) You just have to know where to look and which markets. There are several very, very well paid blue collar jobs that don't even require experience to get your foot in the door. No military service required. Like I said, it's all about knowing where to look.
3) Kerry's choice of words sucked. =P Big mistake for a politicians, especially this close to election day. Whatever you say can & will be held against you!
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Originally posted by Vudak
That's a REAL wide brush you're painting with there, Blue...
Oh well. My opinion is biased being that I grew up in a low end middle class family. If I was rich Im sure my opinion would be the opposite.
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Well, if you listen to the pundits you have 2 choices..
Vote Democrat because you hate Bush and his policies or
Vote Republican because you hate John Kerry....
One actually makes a little sense.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well, if you listen to the pundits you have 2 choices..
Vote Democrat because you hate Bush and his policies or
Vote Republican because you hate liberal pandering and high taxes....
One actually makes a little sense.
Fixed!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well, if you listen to the pundits you have 2 choices..
Vote Democrat because you hate Bush and his policies or
Vote Republican because you hate John Kerry....
One actually makes a little sense.
Among the reasons I vote Republican, I hate those who pander to scum like Jesse Jackson and his fan base who have a huge sense of entitlement.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Oh well. My opinion is biased being that I grew up in a low end middle class family. If I was rich Im sure my opinion would be the opposite.
I'm just saying that I wouldn't paint most people in the lower class as having better morals then everyone in higher classes...
I know quite a few people from both extremes who are absolute scumbags. If you believe in "The American Dream" (or just have worked for a few years in a decently sized city) and such it would almost seem like there are more in the poorer classes... Just the rich ones are more noticeable.
Also saying that morals play a lesser role in the lives of the educated... Why would you say that? Because what they argue for is different? There's two sides and all... A person arguing to keep abortion legalized, for example, isn't doing so because they're evil (well, we'd hope)... They're doing so because they've been exposed to different (not necessarily better) ideas that seem to make sense to them.
A major point of going to school is for things to rub off on you that you wouldn't have experienced without school... I'd imagine that is still a major point of joining the service, too.
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Kerry has always disparaged our soldiers in an attempt to further his career goals:
In 1971, "They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Jenjis (Genghis) Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country." - Kerry
Kerry's statement was very close to the false propaganda being put out by the communists at the time, who spread disinformation and fabricated war crimes to manipulate American public opinion.
Besides being heresay, this is how Kerry tries to further his career even today, disparaging the military. Na - this was his true feeling about our soldiers.
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Mr. Kerry...I will hold an MA in Foreign Policy in May 2007. Ya know what I'm doing next? Joining the US Army, not as an RLO, but as a Warrant Officer...Take that liberal hippie!
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On a serious note, has there been any calls for his resignation?
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Originally posted by cav58d
On a serious note, has there been any calls for his resignation?
From the democrats? You're kidding right? He could have sex with a minor page and be cheered or drive drunk and leave a woman to die in his car and be guaranteed a lifetime seat.
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It is kinda amusing, Kerry is not a very bright guy, and it does not mater at all what he meant now. People took it wrong, what he should have done is apologize to the troops for the mis-understanding.
He didn't, and instead he is acting like an bellybutton and making it worse. More proof he is a fool and an idiot, and this is what the Dems gave us to vote for last time.
Maybe this will kill any chance he has to run again in 08 though.
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Originally posted by lukster
From the democrats? You're kidding right? He could have sex with a minor page and be cheered or drive drunk and leave a woman to die in his car and be guaranteed a lifetime seat.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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"Your educated and smart or your in Iraq"
you guys missed the words "and smart"
he should leave the word "educated" out:
"Your smart or your in Iraq"
wow now it makes sense! dont you think?
i think thats what he really wanted to say.
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I think you just said the same thing.
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
"Your educated and smart or your in Iraq"
you guys missed the words "and smart"
he should leave the word "educated" out:
"Your smart or your in Iraq"
wow now it makes sense! dont you think?
i think thats what he really wanted to say.
You should really study the man closely. And then realize what he says is what he means, until he gets called on it. Then it all changes. Seriously, go and read what he has said and what he has written. Don't listen to sound bites and guess or try to divine what you think he meant. Go look into his back ground and see for yourself.
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Originally posted by Vudak
I'm just saying that I wouldn't paint most people in the lower class as having better morals then everyone in higher classes...
I know quite a few people from both extremes who are absolute scumbags. If you believe in "The American Dream" (or just have worked for a few years in a decently sized city) and such it would almost seem like there are more in the poorer classes... Just the rich ones are more noticeable.
Also saying that morals play a lesser role in the lives of the educated... Why would you say that? Because what they argue for is different? There's two sides and all... A person arguing to keep abortion legalized, for example, isn't doing so because they're evil (well, we'd hope)... They're doing so because they've been exposed to different (not necessarily better) ideas that seem to make sense to them.
A major point of going to school is for things to rub off on you that you wouldn't have experienced without school... I'd imagine that is still a major point of joining the service, too.
I agree that most is a overstatement on my part. If not a majority lack them. I'll restate it as a majority of those who join the military from the lower classes have higher morals then the upper class.
People who decide to go to a college to further their education brought to them with hard work do not have the lesser amount of morals. I would consider them average. Those who are given a education through money I would consider having a lesser amount. Their opinions are based on their lives. Which is usually based on a free ride throughout life.
I tried to write out an example of my opinion. But, my lack of writing skills would only prove to further confuse myself and others. Hurting my argument in the long run.
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Originally posted by cav58d
On a serious note, has there been any calls for his resignation?
Even if Kerry too a dump on a Jerry Kid, on national TV.. All he would need to do is check into "scat" rehab for a few days, claim he had a traumatizing fecal incident as a child by an "unnamed pooper", then cry on Oprah.. sheeple would still vote for him because there's a "D" next to his name.
He belongs to the #2 DC crime family, power has its privileges.
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(http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg)
I don't know how long this will stay up.
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Originally posted by Vudak
A major point of going to school is for things to rub off on you that you wouldn't have experienced without school...
i thought the point of going to school was to learn something, my bad. :confused:
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As a 20-year vet, I find Kerry's remarks despicable, but completely in character for the dirt bag. I did not enter the military because I had no options, but to serve my country, further my education, and be part of an honorable enterprise. Kerry is representative of liberal democrats, who despise the military. Why anyone would think to intrust the safety of their country, at such a dangerous and pivotal time in history, to this creten and his ilk is beyond me. It would be like calling the American troops at Omaha beach or the Battle of the Bulge a bunch of loosers. Disgusting.:mad:
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
(http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg)
I don't know how long this will stay up.
LMAO :D
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Originally posted by john9001
i thought the point of going to school was to learn something, my bad. :confused:
What do you think learning is?
It's not all by rote...
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Originally posted by Vudak
What do you think learning is?
It's not all by rote...
College can be useful ( I went) but many kids learn little more than partying and rutting.
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let me rephrase, i thought the point of going to school was to learn a skill so you could earn a good living.
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Originally posted by Slash27
wow, are those his real medals? Did you get them out of a dumpster or what?
As I recall, the medals he threw over the White House fence were not his. So he says now and during the last election.
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Originally posted by 2Slow
As I recall, the medals he threw over the White House fence were not his. So he says now and during the last election.
He did say that didn't he? What was the point of him throwing someone else's medals over the fence? It isn't just the military this guy thinks is stupid. He thinks we're all stupid.
It doesn't matter who the medals actually belonged to. They are symbolic and can be replaced easily enough. Throwing them over that fence was an act of disownment, contempt, or disgust. That he would later claim that they weren't his medals reveals this guy's lack of character in so many different ways.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
I agree that most is a overstatement on my part. If not a majority lack them. I'll restate it as a majority of those who join the military from the lower classes have higher morals then the upper class.
People who decide to go to a college to further their education brought to them with hard work do not have the lesser amount of morals. I would consider them average. Those who are given a education through money I would consider having a lesser amount. Their opinions are based on their lives. Which is usually based on a free ride throughout life.
I tried to write out an example of my opinion. But, my lack of writing skills would only prove to further confuse myself and others. Hurting my argument in the long run.
First of all, no one is given an education - not even people with money. Like Captain Virgil was saying, there are plenty of people who waste the opportunity, but do just well enough to pass, and then get some sort of position based on nothing really. The people who actually get educated are the ones who work for it. I know in high school I used to go to certain classes where the view was especially nice every single day, but I didn't learn a darn thing in them. If you're complaining about people who are given a free ride through life in general though, I'm with ya on that one.
About people who join the military, whether from lower or higher classes... Well, think about it this way... Wouldn't it be somewhat fair to say that people from higher classes (like Cav - lemme drag you in here, en? ;) ) are giving up significant income and opportunities to enlist? I mean, if you're the sort of person who can acquire a masters and be able to make it in the military, you're the kind of person who could do just about anything... Jobs significantly less risky, that pay better, have better hours, better perks, better food, everything.
In my opinion, it takes a whole heck of a lot of morals for someone like that to sign up... Westpoint is not an easy school to get to. If you can get in there, you should be able to get into a civilian college and make plenty of money in your life.
Instead, these fellas give all that up to take a job, that, to put it generously, really sucks. Long hours, low pay, low to no control of where you wind up, high risk, people spitting in your face when you're on parade, etc. It takes a special kind of person to do. It's really admirable.
Now, on the other hand, a guy from a poor background without as much opportunity, might see the military as his best shot at a good life. Don't get me wrong - he too sacrificies... But do you see what I'm getting at?
That right there would be why throughout history most of the draft dodgers have been rich, and most of the common infantry have been poor.
I'm just saying - don't make the mistake of thinking everyone in your bootcamp is there for moral reasons. I'm sure many are. But many are there simply because it's their best shot.
Everyone who joins the service is someone who should be respected and honored... But it'd be pretty far fetched to suggest that everyone who joins has some higher moral standard then the rest of the world... They don't give you a bucket of it for an enlistment bonus, after all.
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Originally posted by john9001
let me rephrase, i thought the point of going to school was to learn a skill so you could earn a good living.
Well, true. But you learn that by having different people's experiences and ideas rub off on you. The world's a big place, and it's hard to get all that experience yourself.
Unless of course you're doing something like math, where having someone else's ideas of what 2+2 means might not be so beneficial :D
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Originally posted by Vudak
Actually I thought the rest of your post was pretty good. It's just that one little part that irked me. We are, after all, trying to portray soldiers as educated in this thread, and then you go and show that after 20 years of defending the Constitution, you evidently never bothered to read it.
If I'm a liberal, well, first of all I'd like my contribution to the GOP back, and second of all, the only reason I'd be called one is because my strict interpretation of the Constitution doesn't find a way to finagle Christ into it.
Shrug.
Please read it again. Seperation of Church and State is never mentioned in it.
1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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Originally posted by 2Slow
Please read it again. Seperation of Church and State is never mentioned in it.
1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I did read it again. I've already confessed :o
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Originally posted by Vudak
Well, true. But you learn that by having different people's experiences and ideas rub off on you. The world's a big place, and it's hard to get all that experience yourself.
Unless of course you're doing something like math, where having someone else's ideas of what 2+2 means might not be so beneficial :D
I think it safe to say that many, if not most, college instructors have little experience beyond academica. For academics that's fine. Too bad so many of them feel their superior knowlege extends into the real world.
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You'd be surprised what people want to do. I was sailing against an old friend of mine at the naval academy last weekend (not this past weekend of mine). He was from west point. Rather funny character, everytime they beat Navy they'd put up the west point flag.
Anyway, we got talking about jobs since he's graduating this upcoming spring. He told me that he hopes he gets his, because there's high competition in it.
I ask if he's doing helocopters or something. He tells me infantry. So I assume that it must be the easiest way to advance.
He then tells me it's the hardest way to advance.
You have a college full of soon to be grads who all want to get into Iraq. What does that tell you?
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Originally posted by cav58d
On a serious note, has there been any calls for his resignation?
Not resignation, but even the Dems are pissed about this one, and for good reason.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226584,00.html
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
(http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg)
I don't know how long this will stay up.
There's a version of that picture on Drudge's site. Doesn't look photoshopped at all.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
(http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg)
I don't know how long this will stay up.
rofl i didn't know JeffK (http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/RichardKyanka-PressPhoto.jpg/300px-RichardKyanka-PressPhoto.jpg)
was over there lmao
but i guess i should have assumed it:O :O :O :D :D :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Stang
There's a version of that picture on Drudge's site. Doesn't look photoshopped at all.
That IS the picture from Drudge.
And I did not think that it was.
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All politicians are corrupt , the two party system does'nt work . How about stop arguing and start looking for a solution. Vote for the candidate not for the party. I listened to what Rush said about MJ fox and thought he made a mistake but no big deal. Same with Kerry , he worded his statement wrong , no big deal . Any intelligent person can reason what he ment . You guys need to start thinking for yourselves instead of listening to talk radio.
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Originally posted by Mojava
All politicians are corrupt , the two party system does'nt work . How about stop arguing and start looking for a solution. Vote for the candidate not for the party. I listened to what Rush said about MJ fox and thought he made a mistake but no big deal. Same with Kerry , he worded his statement wrong , no big deal . Any intelligent person can reason what he ment . You guys need to start thinking for yourselves instead of listening to talk radio.
The problem is this: We're left voting for the lesser of two evils (in our own political minds) because the candidates offered out there just plan SUCK! I said it in 1992, 1998, 2000 and 2004...I'm getting tired of hold my nose when I go to the voting booth.:mad: Now Bush isn't exactly anyones first choice, but he sure was a better choice than Kerry, and Kerry proves that every day he speaks.
Kerry has now apologized. If we can walk away with a lessons learned from any of this, we can find that lessons learned from this statement below:
He (John Kerry) is a liberal, a leftist, and this is the typical attitude they have toward our military," House Republican Leader John Boehner said. "It goes to show you what liberal Democrats would do if they were to take control of the House and Senate."
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Originally posted by Mojava
All politicians are corrupt , the two party system does'nt work . How about stop arguing and start looking for a solution. Vote for the candidate not for the party. I listened to what Rush said about MJ fox and thought he made a mistake but no big deal. Same with Kerry , he worded his statement wrong , no big deal . Any intelligent person can reason what he ment . You guys need to start thinking for yourselves instead of listening to talk radio.
I think you need to look into Senator Kerry's background before you assume that you know what he meant. He didn't word it wrong, he assumed he was speaking only to his present audience, and he wasn't. He got called on it. Even the vast majority of HIS OWN PARTY knows he meant what he said. Why do you think they demand that he retract it and apologize? Why do you think they cancelled appearances with him? Because PEOPLE understand he meant what he said. And even his own party, that ran him for President, doesn't want to be associated with him. Even McCain, a well known RINO, demanded he apologize, and McCain was one of those complaining about the Swift Boat veterans. Kerry said what he meant and meant what he said, and now there's a price to be paid for his arrogance.
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Originally posted by lukster
I think it safe to say that many, if not most, college instructors have little experience beyond academica. For academics that's fine. Too bad so many of them feel their superior knowlege extends into the real world.
Well it extends into my real world as my real world is trying to get a job as a teacher one of these days... But I see what you're saying.
Still, I don't know that that's so safe to say... The college professors I've had so far usually didn't think they would wind up as college professors... I'd bet quite a few didn't figure they would either. Some of them have led pretty interesting lives.
I'm sure it varies from school to school. Mine's just one of the state ones, so maybe that affects it.
I did read an interesting (2 year old) article about my school though... Some of the teachers were criticizing that the college is so keen on expanding "diversity" but that they do this in the superficial way of race instead of things like political position. The article noted conservatives are greatly outnumbered on college campuses. It had a good point.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Kerry said what he meant and meant what he said, and now there's a price to be paid for his arrogance.
Yeah, but that was before he said and meant something else. :rolleyes:
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(http://www.gamefishin.com/gfboard/uploads/20061101_162114_JK.jpg)
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Darn glad he apologized.. I don't think anyone should vote for Kerry for President this year!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Darn glad he apologized.. I don't think anyone should vote for Kerry for President this year!
He didn't admit that he was sorry for disparaging our troops, only for botching a joke. Apology not accepted.
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Then don't vote for him... he deserves it, the bastage!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Then don't vote for him... he deserves it, the bastage!
Kerry has had a great career of helping the GOP. Kerry's loss in '04 already ensured our Supreme Court was properly appointed, along with help from our Prez. and GOP congress.
so...
Thanks Johnnie !! :aok
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OK, one try at common sense....
Don't you guys feel any kind of chagrin about affixing the stupidity of Kerry's statement to the entire Democratic party, while attacking those who do the same to the Republicans when it comes to e-mails to pages or funding scandals or lousey intelligence etc?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OK, one try at common sense....
Don't you guys feel any kind of chagrin about affixing the stupidity of Kerry's statement to the entire Democratic party, while attacking those who do the same to the Republicans when it comes to e-mails to pages or funding scandals or lousey intelligence etc?
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I have respect for those democrats calling for Kerry's resignation. Uh, who were they again?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OK, one try at common sense....
Don't you guys feel any kind of chagrin about affixing the stupidity of Kerry's statement to the entire Democratic party, while attacking those who do the same to the Republicans when it comes to e-mails to pages or funding scandals or lousey intelligence etc?
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Who affixed ANY of Kerry's stupidity to the Democratic party? Other than the Democrats did select him to run for President in 2004.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Another point of contention - the 99.9 percent of enlisted men who have at least a high school diploma surely counts those who have a GED. And anyone who's taken that test can tell you it's NOT the same thing.
Of course, I think I remember hearing that they were phasing out accepting GED kids and going full high school diploma, but I don't know what came of it, and I heard that fairly recently, so all enlisted men having a bona-fide h.s. diploma is certainly not the case now.
It really doesn't matter though... The military's as good a school as any college... It just concentrates on different things. Still useful, no doubt.
Geesh I missed a whole page at work today.
That 99.9 % DOES NOT include GED applicants. The millitary only accepts a few of those, and ONLY if they have some college credits under their belt.
RPM,
I get about 3 out of 50 recruits that come from "money". Alot of officers come from "money" as well.
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As if you didn't have enough reasons to hate Kerry:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200611/POL20061101d.html
Sen. John Kerry, whose "botched joke" on education and the war in Iraq has sparked a national controversy, approached the families of fallen soldiers at their sons' funerals to seek their help in undermining the war on terror during his 2004 presidential campaign, according to the authors of a new book.
A woman - who had also lost her son in the war and who represented the local Kerry campaign - approached the Johnsons at their son's wake," Moy said. "Justin was laid out in his Army uniform as the woman began her speech about hating Bush and helping Kerry.
"She asked the Johnsons to speak out against President Bush," the author said. The family turned down the request.
Morgan said that while doing research for their book, she and Moy discovered that Kerry and liberal activist Michael Moore personally recruited family members within days of their son's deaths - and sometimes even at the funerals - to come and work for the campaign in order to undermine Bush.
"It was shocking and really offensive behavior, and that's exactly what happened to Cindy Sheehan, who we tracked down," Morgan said. "She went on the payroll of John Kerry's campaign within days after her son's death, as well as her daughter, Carly."
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Infighting's the best means of resolving issues, and moving forward.. well done blindly partisan turds.
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Originally posted by moot
Infighting's the best means of resolving issues, and moving forward.. well done blindly partisan turds.
Kerry's well-known for being a jerk, so I'm kinda with you on this one. When a jerk says something jerky why is it even newsworthy, and why waste 3 pages of BBS bandwidth arguing about the finer points of his real message?
Guy's a jerk, get over it and get on with your lives!
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By turds I don't mean anyone specifically, here. I mean the masses of sheep that feed and give weight to counterproductivity.
Sometimes I'm working on a project, and at any point, team members will go right out of their way to fight for some useless ephemera AKA "the last word", as opposed to getting out of their own way to figure out what's TRUE and get things DONE.
It's at that point that the bigger picture is forgotten for whatever pet peeve itch they need to scratch.
Similarly, the threads or replies (which can't not reflect some of the poster's real life tendencies) that just pile on and on about "revenge", e.g. why catching some Al Qaida ******* or mindless child molester, and devoting time to torturing him/her is a great and productive idea..
Like you said, SOLVE the problem, and move on.
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Originally posted by moot
Infighting's the best means of resolving issues, and moving forward.. well done blindly partisan turds.
One question. Did you vote for Kerry?
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No, I don't think I could.. he's a lying bastard and doesn't even warrant wasting breath arguing about.
I spend a lot of time reading and writing here, because at some point in the near future I'm moving back to the US, naturalizing when I can, and getting involved locally in politics.. Politics are a dirty business as far as I can tell, worse than a bad soap opera. But it needs to be done, and I've seen enough inspiring people such as Lazs, Skuzzy, Hangtime, and a number of people in various places in real life, to convince me it's not a lost cause yet.
I do want to do the issue justice, not just by principle, because I have interest only in a job well done, but particularly because I (for some reason I can't really explain, stupidly) feel responsible for it through being conscious of my ability to do something about it, and therefore partial responsibility for its final outcome. Sort of like seeing someone unconscious on the side of the road.. How do you justify stopping, or not?
I don't have any illusions about the earth being, as far as I can tell - and justify with a proper reason for thinking so, just a mass of animals fighting for survival, but still I think that since I am stuck in it, it might as well get my attention.. and I assume it's the same for everyone else.
SO that's my shorthand context to the decision of voting for whom, for the position of head honcho to this whole affair.. I'm not voting for some crook.
Unfortunately, and I'm not dodging the issue, as I've tried to explain without waxing on too long, I'm pretty sure I haven't learned enough on the subject to make a responsible decision.. so.. I honestly don't know who or what should get my vote.
At the moment I'm stuffing my head almost 24/7 with my formal studies, so this is high on the to-do list, but not for just now just yet.
Libertarians seem to be the closest to what I would vote for, but that's just a guess, and I'm pretty sure who I vote for, presidentialy, isn't really the most crucial, effective choice I have to make.
Like I said already, I'm not voting for some crook.
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Originally posted by moot
Lukster, you mind if I PM you?
No, I don't mind.
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When a US Senator ridicules our military troops fighting and dying for this country he deserves lasting ridicule himself. No, it is not time to let this pass.
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i am 19 years old and yes i did join the military right outta high school. does that make me stupid? well let me just put it this way....
i graduated with a 3.6 gpa and i qualified for the ROTC scholarship. i turned it down because i chose to carry on a family tradition and join the navy. i have had 4 uncles, 2 aunts, and a grandfather in the navy. i could have made it into several colleges but i chose not to. on another note. my training school for the military i came in second in my class, with only a .2 difference in the score between me and the top sailor. i am not 'stupid' by any stretch, clumsy and absent minded sometime (according to my fiance) but not stupid and even she agree's with that. im am currently attending school during the day to get my associates degree in achitecture on base and i work at night.
in todays military not only do you have to have a bachelor's degree to be an officer, but you also have to have a bachelor's degree to make cheif (e-9+) and a masters to make master chief.
and yet another note.....
does anyone know how technicaly advanced our military is these days?
im am a Avaition life support technician in the military and i pack parachutes and work on inflateable items and oxygen components. whats so technicaly advanced about that you ask? well on NES-12's we have these is little devices called "SEAWARS". it is a small little explosive that pops the pin out that connects the parachute riser to the pilot's actual harness. when a pilot hits the water after he ejects the parachute will drag him under if he doesnt disconnect it fast enough. well these 'seawars' do it for him/her. they have sensors that detect the seawater and automaticaly go off, succesfully detaching the cute from the pilot. well as a life support technician i have to be qualified to operate a x-ray machine to take a "photo" of the explosive in the 'seawars'. and thats just a little of what i do, dont even get me started on oxygen components......:huh
some of the men and women i have met in the military in the year that i have been serving are some of the most brilliant men and women i know...
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Geesh I missed a whole page at work today.
That 99.9 % DOES NOT include GED applicants. The millitary only accepts a few of those, and ONLY if they have some college credits under their belt.
Maybe as of now, but not as of a few years ago when I was looking into things...
They were just fine and dandy with the thought of taking me: A GED, no college credit.
Again, I think I remember them saying "Get in now, because we aren't taking GED's after such and such a date"
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face it.. he meant what he said and he said it because he thought he was in the company of people who all agreed with him.
If you really want to see what democrats are like then you have to listen to em when they are only talking to each other... they allways pretend to not be liberal eliteists when they are in a mixed crowd.
The truely believe that all the artists and sensitive and smart people are in their camp and that it is their duty to protect the inferior races who can't make it on their own.
The military just plain angers em tho. To many smart guys with their own education system for their elite.
lazs
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Can you believe the guy apologized so soon. Dean must have got to him with the harshest of dean screaming.
I was hoping he would shove that foot further and further into his numb skull and give the republicans a boost at the polls.
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not only that but they told him to go hide in the corner and not say a friggin word till the election was over.
oddly.... the "oh so fair" news media is not raking him and the democrats over the coals for this.
lazs
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Originally posted by lukster
When a US Senator ridicules our military troops fighting and dying for this country he deserves lasting ridicule himself. No, it is not time to let this pass.
It was the other side of the isle who turned his words into something against the troops. His meaning was crystal clear that he was calling GWB an idiot but the right would rather use our troops as pawns in a election year where truth is twisted in the most disgusting way.
Tuesday can't come soon enough, IMO.
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Originally posted by Flatbar
It was the other side of the isle who turned his words into something against the troops. His meaning was crystal clear that he was calling GWB an idiot but the right would rather use our troops as pawns in a election year where truth is twisted in the most disgusting way.
Tuesday can't come soon enough, IMO.
No, it's just he did not say it correctly.
I think he meant to say the President was stupid and got us stuck in Iraq, and then stumbled accross his words. Kerry said it was a botched joke, so he admitted early on he has mis-spoken.
A botched joke is not crystal clear.
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No College here.... it's common knowledge that 1 year in the field is worth 4 in college.
I own my very succesful business... partners with my younger brother who didn't graduate High School. He has a GED.
My point, college is not a be all end all. At many colleges now the students are taught by an undergrad while the professor is out chasing grants.
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Originally posted by Flatbar
It was the other side of the isle who turned his words into something against the troops. His meaning was crystal clear that he was calling GWB an idiot but the right would rather use our troops as pawns in a election year where truth is twisted in the most disgusting way.
Tuesday can't come soon enough, IMO.
Bull. By now EVERYONE knows Bush has a better education and got better grades than Kerry. Keep twisting and spinning. It sure as Hell isn't Bush that no one wants to be seen with. Kerry is the one who has had his own party treat him like a leper.
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Some are blind not because they can't see but because they won't. Kerry meant what he said and it wasn't the first or even the second time he's slammed the troops.
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Reply to Hilts: What does that have to do with Kerry calling Bush an idiot? If you read the speech Kerry was giving, it was all about Bush. The GOP jumped on a portion of it and distorted it into an insult against the military as a distraction. It has obviously worked for a few. Oh, and are you suggesting that the republican candidates aren't running away from Bush? Take a careful look where and for whom he is campaigning - the races are in solid republican districts that really shouldn't have been in play. Most republicans in tight races are running away from Bush. It seems to me that they don't want to be seen with Bush. One even skipped a fund raiser for her campaign that Bush appeared at.
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dhaus, if you'll just look into Senator Kerry's past, his longtime continual disdain for the U.S. military is obvious. Have you even read what this man has been saying and writing for the past 30 years? Have you heard the things he has accused soldiers of? Do you even listen to what he says? This is the same John Kerry who slandered the U.S. military, and became known as THE "Winter Soldier".
Of course, then again maybe you're correct. After all, the arrogant ******* that Kerry is, he could be stupid enough to talk about the education Bush has, since Bush's acedemic record shows he has had higher grades consistently than Kerry throughout his academic life. That does make sense.
Just keep spinning, Kerry looks dumber with every word typed in his defense. Maybe because it is impossible to defend his stupidity. Don't let that stop you from spinning madly in vain though.
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Nope, not spinning. Just looked at the speech he gave. The line was in the midst of a riff on Bush. When I first heard it, I couldn't believe that the line was considered an insult to the troops, rather than an insult of Bush. That the GOP would want to distort it into an insult of the troops is understandable. It worked as a nice distraction. Like I pointed out in another thread, we're arguing over this rather than why our troops were ordered by the Iraqi prime minister from security barracades in a move to placate militias.
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Yes, it is spin. It's such a poor job of spin that even the Democratic party isn't buying it. Only Dean and a couple of hardcore diehards on the far far left are backing Kerry. EVERYONE else in his own part believes he insulted the troops, and they've heard all of his excuses.
Oh, and the removal of the roadblocks DID make frontpage news, even the so called right wing biased sources covered it, extensively. And yes, I think it is foolish on the part of the Iraqi PM, but then I said over two years ago we should never have let al Sadr keep breathing. But if the Iraqi PM is supposed to be in control, then his orders have to be followed. I don't agree with it, but either we let them control their counrty or we stay there forever as occupiers. His mistake will eventually become evident, even to him, and soon enough.
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The democratic party wants this distraction over - especially regarding a guy who is an idiot and isn't even running. As to the spin, I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change mine. Oh, I agree with you about al Sadr, even though I disagree on whether we should have gone into Iraq (as opposed to Afghanistan).
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Of course the democrats want attention focused on other than their candidate for the highest office in the land recent faux pas. Tough s***.
Originally posted by dhaus
The democratic party wants this distraction over - especially regarding a guy who is an idiot and isn't even running. As to the spin, I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change mine. Oh, I agree with you about al Sadr, even though I disagree on whether we should have gone into Iraq (as opposed to Afghanistan).
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I am having trouble seeing how that line had anything to do with Bush. Was kerrie saying that Bush was uneducated or that he was somehow able to make draft uneducated people for iraq or... that he would draft you if your grades sunk?
If you claim to think that the remark as spoken was obviously about Bush then you are as stupid and dishonest as kerrie.
What is insulting is that you think we are stupid enough to believe you.
kerries machine worked for 48 or more hours trying to come up with a spin that made sense to get him out of his arrogant blunder... they couldn't do it... even they know the idea that it was about Bush wouldn't work...
In the end... they realized that they needed to give an apolodgy... they are so arrogant tho that they couldn't even do a decent one... after all... to apolidgize to the people that they think are inferior really is difficult.
lazs
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It also ignores the fact that while Kerry went to Yale, Bush went to Harvard and got better grades than Kerry.
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The only people that really believe Kerry's attempt to turn his comments into something other than what they obviously were are the same people that believed Bill didn't inhale or have sex with that woman.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OK, one try at common sense....
Don't you guys feel any kind of chagrin about affixing the stupidity of Kerry's statement to the entire Democratic party, while attacking those who do the same to the Republicans when it comes to e-mails to pages or funding scandals or lousey intelligence etc?
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Nope.
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Originally posted by Mojava
All politicians are corrupt , the two party system does'nt work
Bingo. There are alternatives ( like http://www.lp.org/ ), but the DC crime families have more than enough $$ to mute their message from the national stage. Plus election boards are full of party hacks.
Check out http://www.opensecrets.org ... both parties make the Mafia look like Girl Scouts.
There is a simple solution, vote for a 3rd party candidate.. or not, just dont expect anything to change by keeping the same LOSER republicans and democrats in power to continue with their legacy of failure & corruption.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Bingo. There are alternatives ( like http://www.lp.org/ ), but the DC crime families have more than enough $$ to mute their message from the national stage. Plus election boards are full of party hacks.
Check out http://www.opensecrets.org ... both parties make the Mafia look like Girl Scouts.
There is a simple solution, vote for a 3rd party candidate.. or not, just dont expect anything to change by keeping the same LOSER republicans and democrats in power to continue with their legacy of failure & corruption.
Yes, by all means, vote for a third party candidate. That worked out REAL well when all those unhappy Republicans voted for Perot, didn't it? Boy, it taught the Democrats a big lesson, didn't it? And the Republicans too.
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Spin this.
(From the Winter Warrior speech Kerry made to Congress)
...I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony...
I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command...
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravages of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
_____________________________ _
Questioned about these scurrilous accusations during the last presidential campaign, Kerry dismissed them as being "exaggerations" which could be explained by youthful exuberance and idealism.
Exaggerations....or lies? Kerry was challenged to produce affadavits from this vast body of veterans to back up these statements...and never produced a single one.
Some have accused him of using this testimony for the furtherance of his own political career.
So...when he makes a statement like the one he made recently about "you're intelligent and educated or you're in Iraq" many are disinclined to offer him any slack.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yes, by all means, vote for a third party candidate. That worked out REAL well when all those unhappy Republicans voted for Perot, didn't it? Boy, it taught the Democrats a big lesson, didn't it? And the Republicans too.
Perot isn't running this year... FYI
Keep supporting the Republican & Democrat crime families and rubber stamp your approval of the current level of corruption & failure.. its your right as a US citizen.
The 20 Most Corrupt Members of Congress NEED YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT, please cast a vote to send these losers another lock stepping attack parrot.
http://www.beyonddelay.org/
* Sen. Conrad Burns (R-MT)
* Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN)
* Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
* Rep. Roy Blunt (R-MO)
* Rep. Ken Calvert (R-CA)
* Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA)
* Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL)
* Rep. Katherine Harris (R-FL)
* Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA)
* Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
* Rep. Gary Miller (R-CA)
* Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
* Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
* Rep. Richard Pombo (R-CA)
* Rep. Rick Renzi (R-AZ)
* Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX)
* Rep. John Sweeney (R-NY)
* Rep. Charles Taylor (R-NC)
* Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA)
* Rep. Curt Weldon (R-PA)
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you know what, marine? I almost (almost) hate to admit this but the posters who have suggested that you don a tinfoil hat are correct. put the crack pipe down and start confecting one.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Perot isn't running this year... FYI
Keep supporting the Republican & Democrat crime families and rubber stamp your approval of the current level of corruption & failure.. its your right as a US citizen.
The 20 Most Corrupt Members of Congress NEED YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT, please cast a vote to send these losers another lock stepping attack parrot.
http://www.beyonddelay.org/
* Sen. Conrad Burns (R-MT)
* Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN)
* Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
* Rep. Roy Blunt (R-MO)
* Rep. Ken Calvert (R-CA)
* Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA)
* Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL)
* Rep. Katherine Harris (R-FL)
* Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA)
* Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
* Rep. Gary Miller (R-CA)
* Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
* Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
* Rep. Richard Pombo (R-CA)
* Rep. Rick Renzi (R-AZ)
* Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX)
* Rep. John Sweeney (R-NY)
* Rep. Charles Taylor (R-NC)
* Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA)
* Rep. Curt Weldon (R-PA)
Yes, we know Perot isn't running, neither are Frist and Kerry.
The point was that disgruntled Republicans voting for Perot did wonders to elect Clinton. So that third part thing worked well, didn't it?
Here's how it works, since you obviously haven't figured it out.
Outside of the far left wing that votes "green party' or something of that ilk, the vast majority of those who vote Libertarian or other moderate<->conservative third party are disgruntled Republicans. When enough of them do that, we get Democrats. So tell us again how voting third party and getting Democrats elected helps moderates, conservatives, and moderate conservatives. It works just great. NOT! It teaches the Republicans a lesson, too. NOT! It merely succeeds in giving the Democrats a chance to take control and increase taxes, ban guns, and appoint liberal activist judges who legislate from the bench. That's just a great idea. It really is. Stupid. That's what it REALLY is.
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If you are tempted to vote democrat then I urge yu to vote libertarian instead.
If all the people who would normally vote democrat voted libertarian it would send a strong message.
A democrat getting in power is too high a price for a republican voter tho... Soo.... Unless the republican has a lock on the election don't vote libertarian... If the republican has a lock... you can vote libertarian.
lazs
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Originally posted by storch
you know what, marine? I almost (almost) hate to admit this but the posters who have suggested that you don a tinfoil hat are correct. put the crack pipe down and start confecting one.
Well golly gosh gee, ya really got me there.. but it doesn't change the fact republicans and democrats have a long legacy of failure, corruption, and perversion. If you approve, by all means, keep sending more party robots to continue the tradition of selling out you and I for casino chips, golf trips, fresh Page booty, and millions in shady real estate scams... the criminals need your support.
BTW your post would have been much funnier had you suggested I go here: http://zapatopi.net/afdb/ Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (AFDB)
Maybe next time..
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Y So tell us again how voting third party and getting Democrats elected helps moderates, conservatives, and moderate conservatives.
I don't want more democrats elected. Rebublicans either. I'm not sure why you're asking me to explain helping groups I could care less about.
Non bible thumping Independent thinkers who are not owned by an infamously corrupt "party" are the ones I want in office... Romper Room needs a few more free thinking adults, and a few less bought and paid lock step marching party hacks. The country is big enough for more than 2 opinions.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
I don't want more democrats elected. Rebublicans either. I'm not sure why you're asking me to explain helping groups I could care less about.
Non bible thumping Independent thinkers who are not owned by an infamously corrupt "party" are the ones I want in office... Romper Room needs a few more free thinking adults, and a few less bought and paid lock step marching party hacks. The country is big enough for more than 2 opinions.
You propose we vote for a third party. Voting for a third party means that we DO NOT vote for the one of the two parties that WILL get elected that at least somewhat works in our favor, for the most part ensuring that the party we like least will win. So explain to me how voting for the third party helps anything.
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Amazing how many people took the bait offered by the Republican party, hook line and sinker. Talk about grasping at straws.
From the transcript on (gasp) FOX News, the joke was a punch at Bush.
Explains a lot about why our country is where it is right now. Believe what you're told. Don't think, just react.
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nice knowing ya, clever way to circumvent the language filter but that also changes the meaning of your message. it now says butter.
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Ingleton, I hope you weren't planning on sticking around long. I figure you just got yourself a well earned PNG.
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Originally posted by Ingleton
I r teh tard.
Wow, what a cogent arguement. You manage to actually get any meaningful statements out of that head or are they all like the above quote? We won't miss you at all if you get banned. How many times will it be if it happens?
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Originally posted by Ingleton
I r teh tard.
Only a coward tosses insults while hiding behind an alias account.
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Originally posted by Ingleton
xxx
Hey beetle is back. Looks very similar to some private messages he sent me.
Must be sad to be such a drunken looser and woman beater. :D
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would beet1e really resort to that type of insult? he is much better than that, he doesn't need to use expletives.
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Originally posted by storch
would beet1e really resort to that type of insult? he is much better than that, he doesn't need to use expletives.
Yes he would, didnt you read my note, he was sending me private messages on here and at AGW and was calling me a "cxxt". He isn't "better than that", he is a sick person, an alcoholic who has let his drinking screw up his life and turn him into a bitter hate filled person.
Now, he is trying another alias and resuming his crap. What a sad pathetic person who can't accept he isn't welcome here, and cannot move on with his life.
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Originally posted by Dago
It also ignores the fact that while Kerry went to Yale, Bush went to Harvard and got better grades than Kerry.
I thought Bush went to Yale?
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Originally posted by Vudak
I thought Bush went to Yale?
Actually, we are both right. Bush got his undergraduate degree from Yale, and his MBA from Harvard Business School.