Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on November 01, 2006, 09:30:02 AM
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We were scheduled to shoot the Washington State Soccer Assoc. Presidents Cup semi-finals and finals. Then I got this email from the pres:
Hello Brian,
I apologize for not getting back to you but I am still working on the schedules.
The Presidents Cup is a WSYSA Program and they have a contract with Legends Sports Photography to do all pictures. I have contacted Legends and am having them take pictures.
However, I am not sure that they will be able to cover all matches so I am hoping that you may be available for some photography.
Thanks,
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Bill
District III
VP of Competition
Prez Cup Rep
So I replied with this note:(Legends Sports Photography is a chain.)
I'm sorry to hear that Bill, and worse yet, you won't be getting the quality action photos you get from our business as seen in the examples below:
Legends Sports action photography sample photos (Football-note the under-exposure and lack of proper framing)
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventthumbs?event=ZLSP00ZF00&start=0&ts=1162392921
Nic's Pics and Lifetime Memories action photography sample photos (Football)
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery.asp?userid=Ripsnort60&gallery_id=542613
You see, Legends is a portrait photograhy studio that also shoots action sports. We are an action sports photography business that does not do portrait photography except for team shots.
We also offer a speciality service that Legends does not, Digital Montage Photography. You can see the sample on this link below:
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/12661039/189724519.jpg
Let us know if you have enough coverage, we'll be glad to pick up any games that you do not have covered, because once we display some of our montage artwork, I have no doubt we'll outsell Legends.
Brian
Lifetime Memories Productions and Nic's Pics
Lake Tapps, Washington
Did I sound too cocky? I had nothing to lose really...
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Not at all. You're in a cutthroat business.
"Sometimes men are just tempted to spit in the hands, raise the black flag, and start slitting throats."
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I have no doubt we'll outsell Legends.
Did I sound too cocky? I had nothing to lose really...
I would've gone with "We will outsell Legends, without even covering all of the events. You can see for yourself our products are that much better."
A sales pitch is a sales pitch. "Doubt" shouldn't be in the vocabulary. I had to review a proposal recently for a new revenue stream for my family business. First thing I did was find & replace anything that said "should" with "will".
:D
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Too cocky? Not at all. Sometimes you have to fight for business and I think you took just the right approach.
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Thanks for the feedback. Just a side note; Legends recently signed the contract for this years finals so I am told by a photographer that works for the chain. I will be following up and getting on their list of of preferred businesses for future events.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Did I sound too cocky?
:)
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I have to agree with your assessment of the quality of the Legends samples. I would be embarrassed to sell most of those pictures.
I'm impressed with your recent shots though. You've made a lot of improvements since you shot your first game. Of course I'm sure the new lens didn't hurt either. ;)
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Not at all Rip. They are obviously "happier" with a poor product.
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I think you sounded great Rip.
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Why did they refer to you as 'Brian'?
I thought your name was Ripsnort!?!?
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That was pretty good. I bet it was hard to not tell him off after he dumped you for no reason, even though you’ve done a good job and been loyal, thorough, etc.
If he ever completely dumps you completely, start Spamming him with cut-n-paste articles of everything you find on the Internet.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
That was pretty good. I bet it was hard to not tell him off after he dumped you for no reason, even though you’ve done a good job and been loyal, thorough, etc.
If he ever completely dumps you completely, start Spamming him with cut-n-paste articles of everything you find on the Internet.
You are truly evil!:rofl
Seriously though, we never had a contract (other than a verbal one) nor have done work with this group before. They came seeking us after seeing our work with Junior Football...we did not pursue them.
We have a ton of work that we can fill in on week-ends in place of this event once football season is over (come this Sunday, the football season is over for us)
It just pissed me off that they went with an chain photography organization with lower quality standards...parents of sports kids deserve better, but that's my opinion.
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I made a quick comparison and the legends have a rather poor framing. I wouldn't be happy with my results if I'd have to publish as many poor shots as the legends photographer... and I'm not even doing business with photography.
Hopefully this Bill guy gets back to his senses.
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Ripsnort, I think your answer was a very effective one, even if you don't get the call-back (there obviously might be other reasons besides quality, such as the customer having friends in the buisness or whatever) You are assertive, you are respectful, and back up your assertions with evidence. G'luck! :aok
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Does'nt sound too cocky to me. I might have worded a few things differently, but you kept the door open to future business.
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Im afraid I don't have a good eye for photos. Your pics on the artificial turf with the crisp bright uniforms do look better to me. The Legends backgrounds don't look as good. Maybe if they were taken on turf they would seem better. But overall your pics look like something in a sports magazine, and theirs looks like Mom took them with her personal camera.
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You guys are so supportive...you rock! :aok I feel like I handled the situation alittle gruff and perhaps I'll follow up with an apology email for my gruffness and explain my passion for good quality photography, but in the meantime, I'll cool off for a bit. This gig would have been excellent exposure for my business partner and I. She is trying to make this a full time job while I'm just doing it to pay for the expensive hobby that photography can be, so I'm just alittle sore that we got snuffed by a "chain" org that hires photographers by the hour, who don't really have any interest in the quality of the shot since they are hourly.
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I wouldn't say it was gruff; I'd say a little tacky. Telling someone (who isn't even the decision maker in this case) that they made a bad decision because you said so isn't going to help you.
Since it's a hobby for you, getting mad won't help you. You start getting too emotional about the business part and you'll lose the fun part that made it your hobby to begin with. You can't get angry if you're viewed as amateurs since you don't use a contract and probably do this from your house... ;)
Aggressive sales is fine, but that means smart-aggressive (sophisticated-passive aggressive with product/service professionalism), not sniping at your competitors and chest thumping to the prospect. There is no greater turn-off. It's like screaming, "Buy me! Buy me!" when being a little quieter will make people listen and look.
If you're so great, why aren't you guys famous, rich and have a huge chain of stores yourself, right? Let your photos and previous customers do the hard core selling.
You aren't going to quit your job to do it full-time (I guess), but might be able to do more when you retire. If you're an exempt employee, you must already know that you're as high as you'll go anyway since you're not worried that moonlighting is the kiss of death in large organizations, expressly prohibited or not.
Anyway, you have a good eye for what you're doing. Why not stick to improving and enjoying that and stay positive and direct in your correspondance and sales. Good luck, but I realize this may be very hard for you to do. You, uh, crow about everything and scream, "Look at me! Look at me!" so taping your beak shut and letting your partner handle the business part (since she's the one who wants to do it full-time) might be worth thinking about. :D
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Rip, I looked at the pics from the "Legends" web site and you are right. Those pics suck.
Your pics are a lot better and you do have a good eye for what you do. Also, you care about the sport and know what looks good and what is just a crappy snapshot.
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Let the customers be your voice. Once they see the enomrous difference in quality, they'll certainly want to tell someone. Advise them whom to direct their complaints to
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It was bound to happen sooner or later... I agree with Rolex.
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Rip,
I think your note was appropriate if a bit aggressive, but don't worry about it. You were professional and backed it up with examples of why you're right. If they decide they want to work with you, they'll call. In the meantime, work on whatever you have to do in order to be considered next time.
Your pictures are pretty good so you should do fine. It sounds like it's well past the hobby stage, so at some point you have to go out and sell your product.
I would not send an apology, however an inquiry or proposal concerning future events might be appropriate. Plus, you might consider showing up at those events covered by the other photographer, and sending a few samples to the guy so he can see what you *would have done* had you been the official photographer covering the event. Keep the message fairly light and in terms of showing him a representative portfolio that just happened to be taken during an event covered by someone else, and you probably won't get busted :)
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Just received this email today! Looks like we on for the Soccer Tourney! There is a good chance that we'll get published in local sports publications for this event as well!
I have just today received notification from Legends Photography that they will not be doing the District finals tournament photos.
If you are still available and want to consider this activity, pls let me know.
I will be meeting at Starfire today at 10:30AM if you want to coordinate on site.
Note that the NWAACC tournament is also the same days and location so it could be another opportunity.
Thanks,
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Bill Worden
District III
VP of Competition
Prez Cup Rep
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wtfg
:aok
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hooray for business follow-up :)
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Ripsnort.. Why do you use a shade account when contacting your potential customers? "Brian"... hehe.
Anyway "Brian"... you take far better pictues than the chain so you should have a good chanse at getting the job unless they do a background check on you. :)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Ripsnort.. Why do you use a shade account when contacting your potential customers? "Brian"... hehe.
Anyway "Brian"... you take far better pictues than the chain so you should have a good chanse at getting the job unless they do a background check on you. :)
LMAO!!!
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Just a silly thought...
Why post this guys name you're trying to do business with here?