Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: VOR on November 02, 2006, 05:48:59 PM
-
One point of view from across the pond and a good article overall:
It would have been a minor blip in the final week of the campaign if he had apologised immediately and unequivocally and got the hell off the airwaves. Instead, he wriggled and huffed and hit back and compounded his mistake with intemperate bad-mouthings of Republicans as "assorted Right-wing nut jobs" and "hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/11/02/do0202.xml
-
I suppose someone thinks if it is said often enough, everyone will believe he was talking about Bush. I won't. I don't buy it. Kerry evidently thinks he's smarter than everyone else, but I don't buy that either. He makes way too many stupid mistakes, and he cannot keep his foot out of his mouth. If he was that smart, he'd figure out how to keep his mouth shut, and keep what he does say a lot more orchestrated.
-
Yes, Kerry is an idiot, see 2004. When you look at what he was saying at the time, it was a general riff on Bush. I do believe he was talking about Bush. I also believe he didn't understand why he should apologize for the GOP hack job done by distorting his remarks. That doesn't change the fact that he is an idiot and should have been kept in a dark cave for the last few weeks.
-
his statement stood for itself. It's similar toother things he said. There is a cloud of smug following him around on a regular basis.
-
Rofl, if one sentence out of a speech stands for itself, then Bush should have never been let out of 6th grade. Kudos to the GOP for the distortion and distraction this caused. It kept the fact that the Iraqi prime minister ordered our troops off the baracades from the front pages which seems to have accomodated a demand from the militias. Our troops under foreign command anyone? Better we argue about whether or not Kerry insulted our troops.
-
considering the number of versions of the correct speach and the straightforward delivery of the original and the past habits the spin sure looks like it belongs to Kerry. He was just too arrogant to realize what a bellybutton he was.
-
I'll agree with the last sentence. ;)
-
Face it John Kerry is an idiot. Nothing special about him, just a common everyday idiot.
-
well hes stinking rich, in the running for being the leader of the most powerfull nation on earth, and probably lives life 50 times easier than 90% of us.
not that dumb, even for a total jackoff.
-
Media take on this...well, isn't surprising:
Hume led the "Grapevine" segment on the November 1 Special Report with Brit Hume:
"The John Kerry flap may have been the major political story yesterday, and even today, but you might not have known that from the newspaper coverage. Not a single front-page headline in the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal or USA Today. The Times cast it as a chance for the President to attack Kerry. Not until the 15th paragraph, on page 18, does a reader learn what Kerry actually said. The Washington Post put the whole story on page 8. Both the Los Angeles Times and The Wall Street Journal put the Kerry flap on a par with the incident in which some of Virginia GOP Senator George Allen's supporters roughed up a heckler after an Allen event.
Update: Thursday's Washington Post put Kerry's apology on the front page and USA Today gave it a front page tease, but the New York Times again kept the topic off its front page.
Clip of Katie Couric from October 31 CBS Evening News: "Do you think Republican operatives are putting these, this comment into political campaigns all over the country. [mimicking a deep-voiced announcer] 'John Kerry insults the troops. Do we really want the Dems to take over?'"
Clip of Charles Gibson from October 31 World News on ABC: "How in this day and age an idle political remarks gets seized upon, becomes fodder for the talk shows, the blogs, and the politicians."
Clip from October 31 The Situation Room on CNN:
Paula Zahn: "Will it be dismembered by election night is the question Jack Cafferty."
Jack Cafferty: "If we have our way with it, it will be."
Wolf Blitzer: "I'm sure there will be something else that will pop up between now and probably an hour from now."
Cafferty: "One can only hope
http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2006/cyb20061102.asp#3
Practically every news anchor was helpfully trying to explain what Kerry MEANT (though, it isn't at ALL obvious). Now, remember back to Trent Lott and his inocous comments at Strom Thurmond's 100th birthday party. EVERY paper and news broadcast led with it for 2 weeks, and he was hounded out of the Senate leadership
-
why he should apologize for the GOP hack job done by distorting his remarks.
===
why do people keep saying his remarks were distorted? the transcript is available for all to read. If what he said was not what he meant then why the hell didnt he just come out and say that? I make that mistake often and I am quick to come back and say oops, I meant to say that differently....
Nope, Kerry is an bellybutton pure and simple and 1/2 of the reason Bush has been elected twice.
-
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
well hes stinking rich, in the running for being the leader of the most powerfull nation on earth, and probably lives life 50 times easier than 90% of us.
not that dumb, even for a total jackoff.
He's not stinking rich....his wife is.
I don't believe it's possible for him to win a presidential election.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
why he should apologize for the GOP hack job done by distorting his remarks.
===
why do people keep saying his remarks were distorted? the transcript is available for all to read. If what he said was not what he meant then why the hell didnt he just come out and say that? I make that mistake often and I am quick to come back and say oops, I meant to say that differently....
Nope, Kerry is an bellybutton pure and simple and 1/2 of the reason Bush has been elected twice.
That's what I say. Every time a republican says somthing stupid like this there's 50 calls for his resignation. This remind you of Trent Lott's flap anyone?
Yea, paybacks a beiach
-
If your party is based on socialism... that a portion of the people are too stupid and useless to make it on their own...
that has to leak out once in a while... mostly democrats only do it when they feel safe but... they get/got arrogant... they own the schools and the media and... they thought they had a lock on the election.
they are their own worst enemy and never let us forget (for long) how arrogant and eliteist they are.
pretending that they think all men are created equal is an enormous strain on the socialists. Kerrie cracked because he is stupid and arrogant and was caught up with the adoring crowd of mush brained public school products.
lazs
-
kerry isn't running. that was last election.
wasnt sure if you...hilllary. oops.
:D
-
I'm torn here: I was tickled to see (hear) Kerry once again put his foot in his mouth, but then my man George goes and does the same thing with his comment about people in public service ought to know the value of words....or words to that effect. Heheheh, this from the author of "Bush-speak". Politicians, in general, are good for comic relief, if nothing else.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
they are their own worst enemy and never let us forget (for long) how arrogant and eliteist they are.
Sorry, but I just don't understand why democrats keep getting the title "elitist." I think that should be reserved for politicians in general.
It's not like the GOP really gives a damn about the little guy, either. They just say they do.
The only real difference is the democrats are stupid enough to say it "to your face" so to speak, while Republicans lie to your face and serve their own interests, same as any other senator, behind your back.
Let's face it... They're all in it for only one thing: $$$
-
the east coast democrats (mostly Mass.) are the genuine elitists and those from California are the commie socialists. All the other democrats are just varying degrees of either.
-
Kerry is not stupid, nor an idiot. He typifies the 'born with a silver spoon in his mouth' person. Someone who has never had to work for anything in his entire life.
When he tries to talk to people who have done nothing but work for everything in thier entire lives, he is completely outside of his realm and comes off sounding ignorant. His ignorance is simply due to his life style and upbringing. He has no experience with what it is like to be a common person.
Unfortunately, this is not the exception as it pertains to politicians in our country.
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Kerry is not stupid, nor an idiot. He typifies the 'born with a silver spoon in his mouth' person.
Looks more like "born with a silver foot in his mouth". :p
-
Originally posted by Mace2004
Looks more like "born with a silver foot in his mouth". :p
see. i think that either side wasting my time with this kind of babble when there are real issues to be addressed as a bit retarded.
not pointing you out specifically mace, and i understand your point, but it seems that the arguements are getting more and more superficial and ridiculous as each political cycle rolls by.
this hurts everyone because there are alot of friggin people dying in the world right now and so many things that make what kerry or anyone said a triffling of an idea of an issue
so what.
he said that.
he isnt running.
next.
-
The point is, Kerry is representative of his party. You forget, the Democrats overwhelmingly chose him as their candidate for President, because they believe as he does, and thought he'd win. The key being they believe as he does.
-
i don't see how the democrats are really looking at anyone clearly.
lets talk in issues rather than generalities shall we?
-
i liked the reagan republicans. great administation.
-
Originally posted by JB88
see. i think that either side wasting my time with this kind of babble when there are real issues to be addressed as a bit retarded.
not pointing you out specifically mace, and i understand your point, but it seems that the arguements are getting more and more superficial and ridiculous as each political cycle rolls by.
this hurts everyone because there are alot of friggin people dying in the world right now and so many things that make what kerry or anyone said a triffling of an idea of an issue
so what.
he said that.
he isnt running.
next.
Actually, he is running. That's the unfortunant part of the 365 day a year election cycle that we now have.
Let's say though you want to talk specifics. The specific problem is that Democrats, Kerry in particular, have absolutely no specific answers to a damn thing. The specific problem is that they are superficial, you cannot name one specific policy or plan to do anything. That is a very specific problem and why the Democrat party is no longer a serious political party, it is much more of a cult.
-
Uh, it is not the party's fault. It is our fault. If you are going to assess blame as to what is wrong with the political parties, start with the people who put them in the position they are in. Us.
It is easy to blame the politicians for all our problems. I am guilty of laying blame on the worthless-toad-sucking-monkeys as well.
But the real fault is ours. We vote them into office. Once there, we allow them to do what they want. It is within our power to stop this, but we will not do it. It is easier to blame them, than to accept responsibility for our own lack of action.
Instead of doing something about it, we post worthless dribble on a bulletin board espousing how they do it all wrong and how someone else might do it better, or worse. Does anyone really expect that to change anything?
-
i think we do skuzzy. (make a difference by posting here)
if the web is a network, then we are most certainly communicating with other nodes external to another persons understanding or meeting right?
-
This is not an isolated incident with Kerry--aside from the Winter Soldier hearings, in which he repeated heresay under oath, as FACT, there is this gem:
When he ran for Congress in 1972, he said he was against an all-volunteer Army - like the one we have now - because it would be full of lowlife thugs who would be more likely to be involved in "war crimes."
"I am convinced a volunteer Army would be an Army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote in a candidate questionnaire to a Massachusetts peace group.
"We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional Army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.' "
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11032006/news/nationalnews/inside_unit_that_outwit_ted_kerry_nationalnews_niles_lathem_in_d_c__and_todd_venezia_in_n_y_.htm?page=3
-
Yawn...
For one thing.... he misspoke. Botched it. His printed speech had in it the word "us" ...
... as in "got us stuck in Iraq." Bush got "us" stuck in Iraq.
To pretend to take Kerry's fumbling literally or so seriously begs the taking of Bush's words just as seriously:
"I was not pleased that Hamas has refused to announce its desire to destroy Israel."
So Bush is rooting for Hamas?
or...
"It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way."
So Bush is now trying to protect the terrorists?
or...
"But Iraq has - have got people there that are willing to kill, and they're hard-nosed killers. And we will work with the Iraqis to secure their future."
So Bush is in cahoots with them?
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
Now Bush aims to harm the citizen's of the United States???!!!!
WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
Oh yeah.... there is/was none... because he misspoke.
Just like Kerry did.
But noooo.... Lets give Bush the draft dodger a pass, and give Kerry the war hero heck.
Thing is... nobody's buying that swiftboating goblygook anymore. Kerry's scathing response got more play than his initial word fumbling. And it rang true. And.... the polling shows not a single change since Kerry's words. Nada. It didn't have any effect. Try as Santorum and other's might. Too bad.
-
nash "yada yada yada etc"
me "yawn"
-
The things that kill the democratic Party's influence with voters in the Heartland are the very things being pushed by their most radical members.
Radical leftist fringe groups in the democratic party have influence out of all proportion to their numbers. Beginning in the Vietnam Era and continuing to the present day, these groups have pushed legislative and social agends that are anathema to the culture and mores of middle America.
The election of Ronald Reagan, and the ending of three decades of democratic control of the Senate, was no accident. It was a reaction of middle Americans against a radical agenda being pushed upon them by the far left elements of the democratic party which, flush with success of their anti-war movement, and with the willing assistance of a biased media, attempted to restructure American society.
Middle Americans saw this agenda as nothing more than an attack upon their social, religious, and historical beliefs. When attempts to restructure society failed in Congress, the radicals used the courts, bypassing the normal legislative process. The core values of middle americans were held in contempt, publicly.
By 1980, they had had enough. The election of Reagan was a watershed event, but many democrats weren't paying attention. The pushing of a more radical agenda by democrats in 1993-1994 saw another revolution at the polls. For the first time in fifty years, the democrats yielded control of the House of Representatives to the Republicans.
The democrats have run a number of candidates for president that they have tried to pass off to the voters as being middle-of-the-road. But middle-Americans are familiar with the old "bait-and-switch" game, and thus don't completely trust them.
Thus, conservative Americans are disinclined to believe Kerry when he says he didn't mean what he said about the intelligence of military veterans. They ask him if he meant what he said in several other statements since the airing of his "Winter Soldier" speech, that demonstrated contempt towards the military.
Fair or not, that's how people in the red states see the democratic party. If they are to ever again gain the trust of the voters in those states the democrats are going to have to marginalize and muzzle their radicals. It is especially important that they do this AFTER the elections of 2006, when they have a good chance to win control of the House and, possibly the Senate. For if they allow their radicals to once again seize control of the reins of their party their control of Congress will be extremely brief.
Regards, Shuckins
-
Originally posted by Nash
Yawn...
For one thing.... he misspoke. Botched it. His printed speech had in it the word "us" ...
... as in "got us stuck in Iraq." Bush got "us" stuck in Iraq.
To pretend to take Kerry's fumbling literally or so seriously begs the taking of Bush's words just as seriously:
"I was not pleased that Hamas has refused to announce its desire to destroy Israel."
So Bush is rooting for Hamas?
or...
"It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way."
So Bush is now trying to protect the terrorists?
or...
"But Iraq has - have got people there that are willing to kill, and they're hard-nosed killers. And we will work with the Iraqis to secure their future."
So Bush is in cahoots with them?
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
Now Bush aims to harm the citizen's of the United States???!!!!
WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
Oh yeah.... there is/was none... because he misspoke.
Just like Kerry did.
But noooo.... Lets give Bush the draft dodger a pass, and give Kerry the war hero heck.
Thing is... nobody's buying that swiftboating goblygook anymore. Kerry's scathing response got more play than his initial word fumbling. And it rang true. And.... the polling shows not a single change since Kerry's words. Nada. It didn't have any effect. Try as Santorum and other's might. Too bad.
Only in your dreams, Nash. Everyone knows what Bush is REALLY thinking, and they understand he is not a great orator. Everyone knows what Kerry thinks, his past history tells them if they look. So they see the truth plainly when he lets his guard down and the truth comes out, to the chagrin of his handlers.
Oh, no one is buying it? Yeah, that's why they, the Democrats, especially the ones running for office, told the great "winter soldier" to shut the Hell up and hide until Thanksgiving. Nothing he said rang true, other than his insult to the troops. Why did that insult ring true? Because in 1972 he said this: "I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.'
"Equally as important, a volunteer army with our present constitutional crisis takes accountability away from the president and put the people further from control over military activities," he wrote.[/I]
Again, on Kerry's thoughts about the military: He declared in the questionnaire that he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army "a greater anathema."
Now, since Kerry has said so much about the U.S. military that is the same as his recent thoughts, I'll have to separate it into another post to follow this one.
To Be Continued
-
Continued
Here's more John Kerry on the U.S. military: Several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. Not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with a full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It's impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit. The emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. But they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do. They told the stories of times that they had personally raped, cut off the ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in the fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country. We called this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation. The term ‘winter soldier’ is a play on words of Thomas Paine's in 1776 when he spoke of the “sunshine patriot and summertime soldiers” who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough. We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country and we could be quiet. We could hold our silence. We could not tell what went on in Vietnam. But we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, not red coats, but the crimes which we are committing are what threaten it, and we have to speak out. I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The country doesn't know it yet, but it's created a monster. A monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history. Men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped. As a veteran and one who feels this anger, I would like it talk about it. We are angry because we feel we have been used in the worst fashion by the administration of this country. In 1970, at West Point, Vice President Agnew said, “Some glamorize the criminal misfits of society while our best men die in Asian rice paddies to preserve the freedoms which those misfits abuse. And this was used as a rallying point for our effort in Vietnam. But for us, his boys in Asia, whom the country was supposed to support, his statement as a terrible distortion from which we can only draw a very deep sense of revulsion and hence the anger of some of the men who are here in Washington today. It's a distortion because we in no way considered ourselves the best men of this country. Because those he calls misfits were standing up for us in a way that nobody else in this country dared to. Because so many who have died would have returned to this country to join the misfits in their efforts to ask for an immediate withdrawal from South Vietnam. Because so many of those best men have returned as quadriplegics and amputees and they lie forgotten, in Veterans' Administration hospitals in this country, which fly the flag, which so many have chosen as their own personal symbol. And we cannot consider ourselves America's best men when we were ashamed of and hated what we were called on to do in Southeast Asia. In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam, nothing which could happen, that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos, but linking such loss to the preservation of freedom which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy. And it's that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart. We are probably much more angry than that, and I don't want to go into the foreign policy aspects because I am outclassed here. I know that all of you have talked about every possible – every possible alternative to getting out of Vietnam. We understand that. We know that you've considered the seriousness of the aspects to the utmost level and I'm not going to try and deal on that. But I want to relate to you the feeling which many of the men who have returned to this country express. Because we are probably angriest about all that we were told about Vietnam and about the mystical war against communism. We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese, whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image, were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from. We found that most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm, burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone in peace. And they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Viet Cong, North Vietnamese, or American. We found also that all too often, American men were dying in those rice paddies for want of support from their allies. We saw first hand how monies from American taxes was used for a corrupt dictatorial regime. We saw that many people in this country had a one-sided idea of who was kept free by our flag, as blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties. We saw Vietnam ravaged equally by American bombs, as well as by search-and-destroy missions, as well as by Viet Cong terrorism. Yet we listened while this country tried to blame all of the havoc on the Viet Cong.
To Be Continued
-
Continued
We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai and refused to give up the image of American soldiers that hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum. We learned the meaning of free-fire zones. Shoot anything that moves. And we watched while America placed a cheapness on the lives of Orientals. We watched the United States falsification of body counts. In fact, the glorification of body counts. We listened while month after month we were told the back of the enemy was about to break. We fought using weapons against ‘oriental human beings’ with quotation marks around that. We fought using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country would dream of using were we fighting in a European theater or let us say a non-third-world-people theater. And so, we watched while men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and after losing one platoon or two platoons, they marched away to leave the hill for the reoccupation of the North Vietnamese. Because – because we watched pride allow the most unimportant of battles to be blown into extravaganzas because we couldn't lose and we couldn't retreat and because it didn't matter how many American bodies were lost to prove that point. And so there were “Hamburger Hills” and “Khe Sanhs” and “Hill 881's” and “Fire Base 6s” and so many others. And now we are told that the men who fought there must watch quietly while American lives are lost so that we can exercise the incredible arrogance of Vietnamizing the Vietnamese. Each day–(applause) [Chairman: I hope you won't interrupt, he's making a very significant statement. Let him proceed.] Each day to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of Vietnam, someone has to give up his life so that the United States doesn't have to admit something that the entire world already knows. So that we can't say that we have made a mistake. Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, “the first President to lose a war.” We are asking Americans to think about that. Because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? But we are trying to do that. And we are doing it with thousands of rationalizations and if you read carefully the President's last speech to the people of this country, you can see that he says and says clearly that “The issue, gentlemen, the issue is communism.” And the question is whether or not we will leave that country to the communists or whether or not we will try to give it hope to be a free people. But the point is, they aren't a free people now under us. They are not a free people. And we cannot fight communism all over the world and I think we should have learned that lesson by now. But the problem of veterans goes beyond this personal problem. Because you think about a poster in this country with a picture of Uncle Sam and the picture says “I Want You.” And a young man comes out of high school and says “That's fine. I'm going to serve my country.” And he goes to Vietnam and he shoots and he kills and he does his job, or maybe he doesn't kill. Maybe he just goes and he comes back. And when he gets become to this country, he finds that he isn't really wanted. Because the largest unemployment figure here in the country, it varies depending on who you get it from, the Veterans' Administration 15%, various other sources 22%, but the largest figure of unemployed in this country are veterans of this war. And of those veterans, 33% of the unemployed are black. That means one out of every 10 of the nation's unemployed is a veteran of Vietnam. The hospitals across the country won't or can't meet their demands. It's not a question of not trying. They haven't got the appropriations. A man recently died after he had a tracheotomy in California. Not because of the operation but there weren't enough personnel to clean the mucous out of his tube and he suffocated to death. Another young man just died in a New York V.A. Hospital the other day. A friend of mine was lying in a bed two beds away and tried to help him. But he couldn't. They rang a bell and there was no one there to service that man. And so he died of convulsions. 57%, I understand, 57% of all those entering V.A. Hospitals talk about suicide. Some 27% have tried. They try because they come back to this country and they have to face what they did in Vietnam and then they come back and find the indifference of a country that doesn't really care. Suddenly we are faced with a very sickening situation in this country because there's no moral indignation. And if there is, it comes from people who are almost exhausted by their past indignancies and I know that many of them are sitting in front of me. The country has seemed to have lain down and accepted something as serious as Laos just as we calmly shrugged off the loss of 700,000 lives in Pakistan, the so-called greatest disaster of all times. We are here as veterans to say that we think we are in the midst of the greatest disaster of all times now. Because they are still dying over there. And not just Americans, Vietnamese. And we are rationalizing leaving that country so that those people can go on killing each other for years to come. Americans seem to have accepted the idea that the war is winding down, at least for Americans. And they have also allowed the bodies which were once used by a President for statistics to prove that we were winning this war to be used as evidence against a man who followed orders and who interpreted those orders no differently than hundreds of other men in South Vietnam.
To Be Continued
-
Finally, I think we've got enough room in FOUR posts to tell people what Kerry REALLY thinks about the U.S. military.
We veterans can only look with amazement on the fact that this country has not been able to see that there's absolutely no difference between a ground troop and a helicopter crew. And yet, people have accepted a differentiation fed them by the administration. No ground troops are in Laos, so it's already to kill Laotians by remote control. But believe me, the helicopter crews fill the same body bags and they wreak the same kind of damage on the Vietnamese and Laotian country side as anyone else. The President is talking about allowing that to go on for many years to come. And one can only ask if we will really be satisfied when the troops march into Hanoi. We are asking here in Washington for some action. Action from Congress of the United States of America which has the power to raise and maintain armies and which by the Constitution also has the power to declare war. We have come here, not to the President because we believe that this body can be responsive to the will of the people, and we believe that the will of the people says that we should be out of Vietnam now. We are here in Washington also to say that the problem of this war is not just a question of war and diplomacy, it's part and parcel of everything that we are trying as human beings to communicate to people in this country. The question of racism which is rampant in the military. And so many other questions also. The use of weapons, the hypocrisy in our taking umbrage in the Geneva Conventions and using that as justification for continuation of this war when we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions. In the use of free-fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners, accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam. That's what we are trying to say. It’s part and parcel of everything. An American Indian friend of mine who lives on the Indian nation of Alcatraz put it to me very succinctly. He told me how as a boy on the Indian reservation he watched television and he used to cheer the cowboys when they came in and shot the Indians. And then suddenly, one day, he stopped in Vietnam and he said my God, I'm doing to these people the very same thing that was done to my people. And he stopped. And that's what we are trying to say. That we think this thing has to end. We are also here to ask – we are here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently: Where are the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to ask: Where are McNamara, Bundy, Kilpatrick and so many others? Where are they now that we, the men whom they sent off to war, have returned? These are commanders who have deserted their troops, and there is no more serious crime in the law of war. The Army says they never leave their wounded. The Marines say they never leave even their dead. These men have left all the casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They have left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching behind them in the sun in this country. Finally, this administration has done us the ultimate dishonor. They have attempted to disown us and the sacrifices we made for this country. In their blindness and fear, they have tried to deny that we are veterans or that we served in ‘Nam. We do not need their testimony. Our own scars and stumps of limbs are witness enough for others and for ourselves, we wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service. As easily as this administration has wiped their memories of us. But all that they have done and all that they can do by this denial is to make more clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission. To search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war. To pacify our own hearts, to conquer the hate and fear that have driven this country the last 10 years and more. And so when 30 years from now our brothers go down the street without a leg, without an arm, or a face, and small boys ask why? We will be able to say “Vietnam.” And not mean a desert, not a filthy, obscene memory, but mean, instead, the place where America finally turned, and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning. Thank you.
And nothing has changed from Kerry's old "blame America first" and "the U.S. military is comprised of our lesser citizens" opinions, as before he insulted the intelligence of the U.S. military this week, a month or so back, the same John Kerry said that U.S. soldiers were doing nothing in Iraq but :"kicking down doors and terrorizing innocent Iraqi women and children"
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Only in your dreams, Nash. Everyone knows what Bush is REALLY thinking, and they understand he is not a great orator. Everyone knows what Kerry thinks, his past history tells them if they look. So they see the truth plainly when he lets his guard down and the truth comes out, to the chagrin of his handlers.
[/I]
Again, on Kerry's thoughts about the military: He declared in the questionnaire that he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army "a greater anathema."
Now, since Kerry has said so much about the U.S. military that is the same as his recent thoughts, I'll have to separate it into another post to follow this one.
To Be Continued [/B]
if past is prologue then we have a failed executive/draft dodger/college cheerleader running a war for us. is it any wonder people?
-
Originally posted by JB88
if past is prologue then we have a failed executive/draft dodger/college cheerleader running a war for us. is it any wonder people?
It's a wonder people keep trying the "draft dodger" bull. The guy was a fighter pilot. The fact that his unit did not get sent over is not his fault. At least he didn't put himself in for medals, he didn't trash his fellow soldiers, and he didn't marry his fortune.
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It's a wonder people keep trying the "draft dodger" bull. The guy was a fighter pilot. The fact that his unit did not get sent over is not his fault. At least he didn't put himself in for medals, he didn't trash his fellow soldiers, and he didn't marry his fortune.
a. he has no record of having completed his "fighter pilot" service.
b. he got bumped to the top of the list because of his daddy to become a "fighter pilot."
c. he was born with a silver spoon and never would have even been considered for president if it werent for his family name and fortune.
d. he has been bailed out a gazillion times and his own money was made by through the flow of other peoples cash to tag onto his family name.
and finally.
e. kerry is not running anymore. its not about him anymore and it is totally pointless to keep hashing this ad hominem bullwash to avoid facing the facts.
sorry. but whatever.
;)
-
Originally posted by JB88
a. he has no record of having completed his "fighter pilot" service.
b. he got bumped to the top of the list because of his daddy to become a "fighter pilot."
c. he was born with a silver spoon and never would have even been considered for president if it werent for his family name and fortune.
d. he has been bailed out a gazillion times and his own money was made by through the flow of other peoples cash to tag onto his family name.
and finally.
e. kerry is not running anymore. its not about him anymore and it is totally pointless to keep hashing this ad hominem bullwash to avoid facing the facts.
sorry. but whatever.
;)
And your boy Kerry has a questionable honorable discharge from the CARTER era, when dishonorable discharges were being converted, and oddly enough, Kerry was supposedly discharged somewhere around the 70-72 time frame. Further, Bush has released his FULL military record, Kerry adamantly refuses, to this day, and yet brags repeatedly about his service and how it qualifies him. So Kerry has no record of completing ANYTHING, all he has is records of him putting himself in for medals and commendations, and then records of him begging for a transfer out, after getting the purple hearts he asked for.
You wanna talk personal attack I can keep up with you ALL DAY.
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
You wanna talk personal attack I can keep up with you ALL DAY.
not really.
i've said what i needed to say on the subject.
88
-
whats ad hominem mean?
i see it all the time...is it what ralph kramden would say if he were pope?:huh
-
click (http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/TheInternetownagesong/?m=new&tf=all)
-
Originally posted by Debonair
whats ad hominem mean?
i see it all the time...is it what ralph kramden would say if he were pope?:huh
i thought it was a type of corn.
:huh
-
Originally posted by joowenn
click (http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/TheInternetownagesong/?m=new&tf=all)
zOMG nub, kewl vid
m0r (http://www.purepwnage.com/music.html)3
-
You know a big part of our system of government is the way it is because our forefathers were trying to look ahead. Trying to find a way to govern everyone fairly. Back then there was little in the way of communication. Heck a large portion of the people could not read or write.
Jump ahead some 200 years.
Now virtually every one in America has the ability to read, write, get informed on the issues, etc. Yet we have made no substantive changes to the way we govern ourselves. We still have the same electoral college that barely worked back when they dreamed it up. We are not going to see any real progress until.
A Politicians are ranked on how well they are doing the job they are supposed to be doing. How often they have lied, how often they say one thing and do another.
B The people can call for a vote to remove any politician from office based solely on their job performance. Face it, if you had enough support to get elected and lost it all you screwed up someplace.
C We have had the technology to use the telephone system on a massive scale for voting for years. Look at dancing with the stars, or other show where millions call in votes. There is NO reason why that system can not be adopted, changed, made tamper proof.
D We really need to start rewarding people who served their country.
So give them double votes, let them be the watchdogs who watch the guardians. Any service man who was disabled, give him triple.
Just like the current system let people pay a charge of a dollar per issue/vote. Use that money to pay for the system. Give Vets a half off deal.
Within a year you have government OF the people, BY the people and FOR the people again. You lose career politicians who lie, cheat, promise and steal.
You want to put a limit in, so that we don't have a new president every 90 days, fine. Give him a year or 2 to learn the job. After all its probably the hardest one in the country to master.
Give new Senators 90 or 180 days grace period. After that if they are NOT doing what the people want kick em out.
Lets regain control of this country.
-
ghosth, if I wanted to create a policy thaty would insure political chaos your suggestion would be well worth noting.
we already have the very best way to govern a large and diverse people. the inspired system for our government was hammered together by what are arguably the most brilliant but disparate minds of all time. the system works it doesn't need fixing.
I agree the system needs some additional tweaking, I think mandatory term limits for all elected officials should be a requisite. I don't think the founders ever envisioned a career politician and I think we should discourage the continuation of this practice. we can do that by demanding it from the grass roots up, the way the system is supposed to work.
the problem with our system will be evident again on tuesday. you will see that only1/3 of the electorate will show up to register their opinion yet fully 100% will grouse about the outcome at some point in the next two years.
-
Allowing people to vote by phone or computer won't work. There's too much chance of fraud, and besides, if you're too lazy and sorry to go to the polls, you're too sorry and lazy to know anything about who or what you're voting for, or against.
No one rates more than one vote. And military people wouldn't want more than one.
Now, yes we do need to make the voting record of politicians easily available. In fact, they need to have to send out a record to every constituent, and include an explanation oftheir vote. Once a week, or once a month, doesn't matter. It also needs to be posted on a website easily
found and displayed.
Yes, we do need to streamline the procedure for a recall, so that if they get there and immediately turn their backs on their constituents and vote other than what they said they would, they can be recalled. Can't do it with the President and Vice President though. Way too much chaos created there.
And the Electoral College WORKS. Allowing the current batch of idiots and scumbags to screw around with it means it'll NEVER work again, and nothing else will either. It will result in immediate and constant attempts to gerrymander the whole thing repeatedly.