Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hawklore on November 08, 2006, 06:05:06 PM
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See Rule #7
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They tried to do that crap in Texas and they didn't show up for some reason...
:t
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Originally posted by soda72
They tried to do that crap in Texas and they didn't show up for some reason...
:t
(http://brad.touesnard.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/NorrisAsWalker.jpg)
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Originally posted by soda72
They tried to do that crap in Texas and they didn't show up for some reason...
:t
Good, I just hope our Cops follow through.
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Westboro gets owned (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BZGKx2pTBQc) :lol
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They also tried to do that at the funeral for the Amish children killed in the schoolhouse in September. Their main target is military funerals. I understand there is an organized effort by motorcycle clubs who offer their services (free, of course) to the families of the fallen soldiers (and, indeed, to the Amish last month) to attend the funerals and blockade the area so this "church" can't disrupt the event. This has nothing to do with "free speech." This has everything to do with rabid, inbred (this "church" is actually one large, extended family), idiocy.
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MP's I am offended by Hawklore saying the Lords name in vain.
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I wouldnt sweat it. Most of us know what the score is. To those that dont...no sweat.
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I'm ready for someone to kill them all off.
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This group makes me sick...I would gladly fracture, and destroy each and everyone of their skulls with the heel of my boot....
bite the curb...
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man, I agree that the westboro group is a despicable lot and that their actions are, among other things, an illegal invasion of privacy, but come on people! This is America. There's such a thing as Freedom of Speech. My grandpa used to say "as much as I hate to see someone burn the flag, I'd die to defend their right to do so."
Curbing someone over something they say? I'll assume you're just ranting, 'cause if you're not one of MY previous rants wasn't far off.
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Freedom of speech does not mean they have the right to protest at funerals. All speech is not free and is not protected. In fact, what they do qualifies as hate speech, and is not protected at all. Were it not for the stupidity of groups like the ACLU, laws would have been passed and these people would have been dealt with accordingly.
Freedom of speech DOES NOT mean freedom from the consequences of what you say and where you say it. It means the government cannot limit your speech on dissention. The 1st Amendment does not protect you from getting your bellybutton whipped for being a jerk at a funeral, and it shouldn't.
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Originally posted by dhaus
I understand there is an organized effort by motorcycle clubs who offer their services (free, of course) to the families of the fallen soldiers (and, indeed, to the Amish last month) to attend the funerals and blockade the area so this "church" can't disrupt the event.
Patriot Guard Riders (http://patriotguard.org/)
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I can assure you that everything I mean everything I said in my previous post, and to add, the framers did not intend for this hijacking and abuse of free speech
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Originally posted by cav58d
This group makes me sick...I would gladly fracture, and destroy each and everyone of their skulls with the heel of my boot....
bite the curb...
you and me both.
Id have no problems getting arrested for beating the crap out of this group.
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See Rule #7
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
man, I agree that the westboro group is a despicable lot and that their actions are, among other things, an illegal invasion of privacy, but come on people! This is America. There's such a thing as Freedom of Speech. My grandpa used to say "as much as I hate to see someone burn the flag, I'd die to defend their right to do so."
Curbing someone over something they say? I'll assume you're just ranting, 'cause if you're not one of MY previous rants wasn't far off.
As has been said many times before on these boards.
Yes you have freedom of speach. Wit it comes the responcability and the consequences of that free speach.
Besides. Freedom of speach was designed to protect the people from the goverment.
Mot necessarily from other people
Walk into the middle of Harlem and yell out the "N" word and see what happens.
Hey after all. you have free speach right?
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
you are wrong captain hilts. it clearly says that the government cannot tell you what you can or cannot say. the framers wrote that, not the ACLU.
it also says that they can "peaceably" assemble.
this obviously isn't peaceable.
they should be charged with disturbing the peace or attempting to incite riots.
then, using the same freedoms we can post their pictures everywhere and each of us individually deny them the ability to buy our gasoline...ride on our buses...eat at our restaurants. shop in our supermarkets.
etc.
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Wow, I really am dissapointed with most of you. Virgil especially.
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It DOES NOT say the government cannot pass a law preventing them from doing what they are doing. What they are doing has nothing to do with dissent. There's nothing in the Constitution that gives anyone the right to do what that "church" is doing. Nothing in the Constitution protects anyone's "right" to disrupt a funeral. Just because it is "speech" of some sort or "protest" of some sort does NOT make it automaticly protected under the 1st Amendment.
They can print their problems in the paper. They can hold their protest in a true public place (a funeral is NOT a public place, it is private). They can show their bellybutton and their bigotry on TV. But imposing their protest on a private funeral is NOT protected free speech.
I personally don't care how disappointed anyone is over that.
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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Do you watch southpark virgil? More specifically, the Muhammed episode?
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See how easy it is to start losing your civil liberties... just pick the most disagreeable use of those liberties and start whittling away.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Do you watch southpark virgil? More specifically, the Muhammed episode?
Why would I watch "SouthPark"? I find it neither funny nor entertaining, and I certainly don't find it educational.
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While I am greatly saddened to agree with the likes of Lasersailor, I have to agree. One of my fundamental priniciples, and the true reason I served in the military was defense of the Constitution. Their speech does not quite equate to yelling fire in a crowded movie house, although it is truely sick.
But this is America. I served to defend the rights of nutjobs burning flags, and of these whackos voicing their sick opinions. I cannot in all honesty state that they have no right to voice their opinion.
I would hope that all military families, mine included, would be able to ignore these freaks. Additionally, I an not an overtly religious person, but I would hope that if there is a God, he would twist these people in the afterlife and make them pay for their sick deeds in this world. That's the only justice I can ask for.
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i have an idea, how about we get rid of the tax shelter that they get (which i am WHOLLY opposed to btw...strip them of their church status and then take them down like they did the KKK?
wait for the to start hiding money from the IRS...
better ways to skin a cat than ruining it for everyone else or becoming the enemy to beat an enemy.
(p.s. - for the life of me i will never comprehend how people can be vile and cruel and unforgiving and claim to follow the teachings of jesus ...baffles me.)
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Originally posted by cav58d
I can assure you that everything I mean everything I said in my previous post, and to add, the framers did not intend for this hijacking and abuse of free speech
regardless of how outrageous the "hijacking and abuse of free speech" is, it's still only words.
"I would gladly fracture, and destroy each and everyone of their skulls with the heel of my boot.... bite the curb..."
over words you don't like... that's ugly. there's a lot more I'd like to say to you, labels I could use, but it would probably get this thread locked. let your imagination wander.
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Say what you will about me...And if you ever said it in a threatening way to me or my family, especially at a funeral, you'd wish you were never born....got that?
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For all of you who support this rhetoric, and say it is well within their guranteed rights....Well as sinnical (sp) as this may be 2 say...Maybe they should show up at the funeral of one of your dead ones then....we'll see how you like that
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Besides. Freedom of speach was designed to protect the people from the goverment.
Mot necessarily from other people
um, maybe you haven't heard, but physically assaulting, possibly killing someone when they didn't PHYSICALLY assault you first or you're not otherwise in fear of your life is a crime. it has various names, depending on various circumstances and outcomes.
Walk into the middle of Harlem and yell out the "N" word and see what happens.
Hey after all. you have free speach right? [/B]
I'd surely get hurt pretty badly and possibly an unlucky few in the mob who happened to be caught on camera would go to jail. or not, I might just get looked at like a loonatic. wouldn't mean I'd have been perfectly within my rights.
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Originally posted by cav58d
Say what you will about me...And if you ever said it in a threatening way to me or my family, especially at a funeral, you'd wish you were never born....got that?
:rolleyes:
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I believe in the right of these people to protest these funerals in the dusgusting and reprehensible manner in which they do, but I would be terribly sympathetic as a juror to whomever might temporarily lose their sanity in the process of killing one or more of these protestors.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
See how easy it is to start losing your civil liberties... just pick the most disagreeable use of those liberties and start whittling away.
no comment, just bears repeating...
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Freedom of speech does not mean they have the right to protest at funerals.
Depends if the funeral is on private or public land. If it's on public land, than yeah, the government can't limit thier speach unless the government can prove that the intent of the speach is cause immeninet danger. If it's on private land than it's up the the owner of the land if he wants yahoos pissing off his customers.
For a conservative moderate you sure like to take away property owner's freedoms.
All speech is not free and is not protected. In fact, what they do qualifies as hate speech, and is not protected at all.
But it should be. Up here we have a law against advocating genocide based on race, religion, sexual preference etc. Last time I checked (about six months ago) you guys didn't have any hate speach laws.
The 1st Amendment does not protect you from getting your bellybutton whipped for being a jerk at a funeral, and it shouldn't.
Yeah, that's why they have laws against assult.
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Speech isn't, and never has been, completely unrestricted. State and federal governments both have laws restricting forms of speech that endanger innocent lives or incite bystanders to commit violence.
The families attending the funeral of a loved one have a right to privacy. While not specifically stated in the Constitution, the Supreme Court has ruled in several cases that the right to privacy exists. The ruling in Roe v. Wade is but one example.
So, why should the right to free speech supercede the right to privacy?
In addition, if I were to attend the funeral of a gay man who had died of AIDS and loudly proclaimed that he had gotten the fate that he deserved, some of you would be singing a different tune altogether.
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Question,
Awhile back there were those mothers on the news stations that had lost their sons in either Afghanistan or Iraq. All were complaining and using their freedom of speech correctly. Now if a mother of a fallen soldier decides to have one of these rally things at his funeral would that be disallowed under the law?
Even tho I strongly disagree with these people, I have a understanding that it is their freedom of speech. Id rather have them with posters and words, then doing something worse such as disgracing a soldiers gravestone or a monument. God help them if they ever show up when Im around.
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Originally posted by cav58d
For all of you who support this rhetoric, and say it is well within their guranteed rights....Well as sinnical (sp) as this may be 2 say...Maybe they should show up at the funeral of one of your dead ones then....we'll see how you like that
I wouldn't like it at all. a barricade of bikers would sure come in handy. doubt anyone would get curbed though, definately not by me. I'm not defending what they're doing. it's despicable. they have serious issues. kinda like people who curb people over words.
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I believe they have a right to say what they want, but I do not like it. It angered me so much I sent them a letter which I copied for all to read.
"What the **** is wrong with you people? You honestly think our soldiers deserve to die? If it were not for them EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU WOULDVE BEEN KILLED FOR YOUR BELIEFS. Do you not understand that. I agree there are certain people in the world who DO deserve to die, about 100 actually, they are all part of the Westboro Baptist Church. Your all a bunch of ****in freaks. THANK GOD, for 9/11? Dead soldiers? Ill tel you what we need to thank God for, OUR LIVES, OUR RIGHTS, and that there are people willing to defend out rights. Also for the time when the Westboro Baptist Church is no more. May God have mercy on your souls, Pray you dont rot in hell. Even though you deserve it.
From a 15 year old, who was left nearly ready to cry from anger because of YOUR stupidity, your idiotic messages, THE DEATHS OF THE VICTIMS OF WAR, 9/11, THE OKLAHOMA BOMBING, EVERYONE. I'm a future Marine, an I can say I honestly hate you people.
With Much Hate
-Daniel Joseph Lee Johnston *<--Side Note fo AH forums That IS my FULL Real name, I honestly hope they come find me*
PS * Lot of info Im not gonna post on here, has adress phone # I REALLY want them to come find me, I guarentee I win the fight (Hooray for shotguns ne1?)* PLEASE if you have a problem with me, or soldiers, come find me, I'll be waiting."
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First off, I don't advocate anyone getting curbed, or killed, over ANYTHING they say.
However, I feel that this whole picketing of funerals is pretty darn close to yelling "fire!" at a theatre. Sure, protesters say things that incite all the time, but when you're dealing with grieving people who've just lost their loved ones... Well, the police are there for a reason.
I realize police show up for all sorts of protests, but there's a big difference between screaming "bush is a [insert whatever here]" in the middle of a city street during a protest and screaming "Your son is going to hell" at a funeral. In the former, citizens can (and should) be expected to deal with it without resorting to violence. At a funeral though... No.
Really though, if someone did snap and harm or kill one of these nutjobs during a funeral, I think any state would have a damn hard time finding a jury to convict the mourner (if it even got that far without first being pardoned).
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
I wouldn't like it at all. a barricade of bikers would sure come in handy. doubt anyone would get curbed though, definately not by me. I'm not defending what they're doing. it's despicable. they have serious issues. kinda like people who curb people over words.
Its not words its thier actions. Thats obvious. I would not condone curbing any of these a-holes but Im sure that was more for effect from Cav than anything else. There is also no doubt these people are in need of a serious bellybutton kicking.
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Can't the cops PC them til the funeral is over for their own safety? Could be a loophole so you wouldn't need a law?
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I also advocate senseless and unwarranted violence and death to those who are tactless while taking advantage of their first amendment.
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
um, maybe you haven't heard, but physically assaulting, possibly killing someone when they didn't PHYSICALLY assault you first or you're not otherwise in fear of your life is a crime. it has various names, depending on various circumstances and outcomes.
I'd surely get hurt pretty badly and possibly an unlucky few in the mob who happened to be caught on camera would go to jail. or not, I might just get looked at like a loonatic. wouldn't mean I'd have been perfectly within my rights.
Yes but by using that free speach you would have not only suffered the consequences. however illegal those consequences were of exercising those rights.
Then you might also be charged with inciting a riot. Probably also disturbing the peace
Just because you have the right to use your free speach and because of its use doesnt mean the resulting assault would not be of your own making
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take every one of the mother****ers out and shoot them
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See Rule #7
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You do not have the right to incite a riot. You do not have the right to use "fighting words"
the use of "fighting words" has been good enough reason for a person to assuault you. It is like if a person came up to you and screamed at you that your mom was a potato... he won't stop... he follows you and continues... at some point you knock him on his butt... Your defense would be that he used "fighting words" that his intent was to anger you and that you were forced into the fight.
That is what is going on here. their intent is to disrupt and anger people who are at an emotional time in their life.. If they merely had a parade (after getting the permits) then they would be no worse than the KKK or whatever.
Another example is as was said... blacks are extremely sensitive to the n word.. either real or pretend... If you were to scream that word in a group of em then you would be inciteing them to violence.
I am sure that, on on one... I could make that "religious" group angry enough to take a swing at me. I wouldn't allow them to anger me under normal circumstances....but...
That is not the case if they were to do that at a loved ones funeral... I would not be in control of my emotions and they would be responsible for my attack on them... Law is the "reasonable man".... I think that any judge or jury would say that a reasonable man would become enraged enough that he would be unable to control himself enough to not beat the crap out of these people.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
That is not the case if they were to do that at a loved ones funeral... I would not be in control of my emotions and they would be responsible for my attack on them... Law is the "reasonable man".... I think that any judge or jury would say that a reasonable man would become enraged enough that he would be unable to control himself enough to not beat the crap out of these people.
lazs
Happened here already. Friends of mine beat them up at their squadmates funeral. The judge asked if it was post-traumatic stress disorder that caused it. They said yes. Case dismissed.
God bless Texas.
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yep indy... but that asside.. the law does operate on the principal of the "reasonable man" that may change as sociatal attitudes about things change.. for instance... it is no longer "reasonable" to drag a black man behind your car because of the way he looked at some white woman but..
I believe that most reasonable men of today would say that the "religious" group in question was asking for it.
My proof is the strong emotion a lot of people posting are using.
I agree that blue areas may soon think that it is free speech to disrupt funerals. Perhaps that is the way the country is going but...
We ain't there yet... not in most of the country anyway.
lazs
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In 1994, a woman tried to run down protesters in Topeka after one of them screamed obscenities at her while her pick-up truck was parked at a stop light. She was arrested, but was later found not guilty due to temporary insanity.
n 2003, WBC member Charles Hockenbarger, who was in his 70s at the time, had his face crushed in a beating after standing on a street corner holding a sign reading "THANK GOD FOR SEPT. 11". Hockenbarger was recovering from open heart surgery at the time and ignoring the usual doctor's orders for bed rest. Westboro posted photos of the aftermath of the attack on its homepage, claiming that the (still unidentified) perpetrator was a homosexual and that the attack had been part of a murder conspiracy to kill Hockenbarger, though offering no proof of these allegations
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Originally posted by Sandman
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
Freedom of speech is great. Too bad it's being limited to nonreligious subjects. Little doubt it will be limited to only approved PC subjects as time passes.
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WHAT THE ****!!!
I MADE COMMENTS AND CONDUCTED A THREAD?!!!
THIS IS ****ING RIDICULOUS!!!
And provided a link to source the information!!
I provided more personal views in my thread then that of the Airplane Design, and it's still up!!
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Your "right" to make a fist ends at my nose.
You may exercise your right to "free" speech. If they had shown up at my fathers funeral and "spoke" their "liberty" then I must say I would have violated the "fist" right.
What they are doing is hurtful and shameful.
Hmmm...flag burning....
If you want to buy or make a flag and burn it as an expression then fine, do so. If you want to run my flag down my flag pole and burn it, then you will have a problem. By "my flag" I am referring to the one I fly at my home. I am also referring to my flag which is flown at my courthouse, post office, federal building, etc.
I think it was in Dallas Texas, some years ago, where some folks ran a flag down at someone else's property and burned it. They were charged with felony theft of private property. I think it was a rather large flag costing around $500. Belonged to a hotel or other business.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
WHAT THE ****!!!
I MADE COMMENTS AND CONDUCTED A THREAD?!!!
THIS IS ****ING RIDICULOUS!!!
This is sure to fix everything
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Disturbing the peace is not freedom of speech!
What they are doing is illegal on so many levels, and if they weren't hiding under the "war protest" umbrella, they would all be in jail, or heavily fined.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
WHAT THE ****!!!
I MADE COMMENTS AND CONDUCTED A THREAD?!!!
THIS IS ****ING RIDICULOUS!!!
And provided a link to source the information!!
I provided more personal views in my thread then that of the Airplane Design, and it's still up!!
And everytime you circumvent the language filter your post will get neutered. Either post within the rules of the bulletin board or do not post at all. You made the choice to ignore the rules. You have no one to blame but yourself for ignoring the rules.
EDIT: And Nate is quite right.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Why would I watch "SouthPark"?
In times of darkness, you must ask yourself, "what would Brian Boitano do?"
You may find your way to the answer...
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Originally posted by cav58d
Say what you will about me...And if you ever said it in a threatening way to me or my family, especially at a funeral, you'd wish you were never born....got that?
(several minutes of laughing hysterically)
Online rambos cant be taken seriously, what's more...you're from Connecticut
:rofl
I swear, you kids just go too far with the comedy these days.
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I don't see how being from Connecticut has anything to do with it?
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Dont confuse free speech issues with that which you find "disturbing".
If someone is WILLFULLY disturbing your peace, no matter what time of day or where, they can be arrested, if; the offense is committed in the presence of the police, or if the police are not there, via citizens arrest (837PC in Cali). Once a citizens arrest is made, its a felony for the police to refuse to take your prisoner.
Otherwise the police stay away from free speech issues for 1 reason, on duty cops cant legally be offended by ANY speech... you can call a white guy a nazi, or tease anyone about their race on top of insulting their momma, sister, wife... whatever. As long as its not a threat, cops have no official opinion and cannot have their peace disturbed while on duty.
Thats why I advocate "mob justice" for these people, a mob needs to open a can of punk-rock whoopass and summarily beat them down to shut them up.
Even the biggest loudmouth on the planet cant talk with a boot in his, or her mouth.
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Originally posted by cav58d
I don't see how being from Connecticut has anything to do with it?
plus we've seen his guns...
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No I think the statement of being from somewhere, or not being from somewhere denotes whether your tough or not? stop watching movies
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Originally posted by cav58d
No I think the statement of being from somewhere, or not being from somewhere denotes whether your tough or not? stop watching movies
I have yet to meet anyone tough from North Bethany, Delaware.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
And everytime you circumvent the language filter your post will get neutered. Either post within the rules of the bulletin board or do not post at all. You made the choice to ignore the rules. You have no one to blame but yourself for ignoring the rules.
EDIT: And Nate is quite right.
-Shrug-
Still pissed off about whoever deleted my signature, and still awaiting the code and link and wording returned..
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speech can be regulated, which is why I suspect that recent state law regarding this outfit and military funerals will be upheld. They can preach their own brand of hate almost anywhere - just not at funerals. That is a very limited regulation of the speech designed to further a legitimate purpose (to my mind) - the sanctity of a grieving family's funeral.
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Originally posted by cav58d
No I think the statement of being from somewhere, or not being from somewhere denotes whether your tough or not? stop watching movies
you're
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Hawklore, you and Cav are both perfect examples of keyboard tough guys. Now, I don't really care about whatever examples you can bring about how you've stood your ground, physically, in the past. Here you're just nothing but angry letters and words, typed and delivered within a forum of people that are here to exchange, at least in theory, ideas instead of emotions.
Real men, they say, act instead of talk. You, on the other hand, demonstrated your proficiency at typing. Nothing less, nothing more. I seriously doubt that either of you have ever kicked anyone's ass, or what have you. You let your fingers do the talking. Perhaps I am no better, but, at the very least, I do not take aggressive stances when I know I cannot back it up with action....Here, today, in response to the aforementioned religious fanatics, you are going to do exactly nothing. This is not a prediction. It is a fact. Your anger, at the end of the day, will go to sleep along with the rest of your bodies. Tomorrow you will awaken less angry, less ready to act, and this will continue, until the whole issue is forgotten.
I suggest that both of you sit back, take a deep breath, and think deeply about what is important. Given the right amount of contemplation, I doubt that either of you two will raise a fist against these enemies. Think about the cost of your actions, think about the cost in perspective with the people you so adamently want to fight. This is the 21st century, and most meaningful fighting is no longer physical, but rather, predominantly intellectual. Either way, I firmly believe that you're both ill-equipped to mount much of a counter-offensive.
Instead of getting mad and claiming that you'll crack this and that in the name of the stars and strips, why don't you think hard about how to make lasting change. For some reason, I seriously doubt that your aggressive tone here has frightened anyone at all.
Nobody in their right mind enjoyed seeing the graves, or funerals, of veterans defaced by fanatics. Nobody. Don't humiliate their memories by threatening action that you will never, ever deliver. If you want to make a realistic impression, why not start by immersing yourself in thought, all the while staying silently respectful. Trust me when I say that you'll always have time to vent your anger later.
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You should be glad they changed the title of this thread because it made you appear as if you didn't know that damn is not an adjective.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
-Shrug-
Still pissed off about whoever deleted my signature, and still awaiting the code and link and wording returned..
Hold your breath while you're at it. I'm surre after you've turned blue and passed out......they'll still leave it off. :p