Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Atoon on November 09, 2006, 10:49:52 PM
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:furious
2 countries with superior numbers, Vs 1 country with a fraction of numbers of either the first country, let alone both combined. On top of that, 90% of the players from the 2 coutries with numbers & truce were in alted N1ks, la7s & spits.
Country A=97 players
Country B=89 players
Country C=57 players
Dar Bar indicates approximatley 10-15, Az Vs Bz planes in Battle. Lets give a VERY generous GV count on the Az Vs Bz front of 20 GV players... for a grand total of 35 combined Az Vs Bz players. This GENEROUS figure leaves 151 Az & Bz, Vs 57 Cz. But if that wasnt Bad enough The A/z & Bz were in 90% spits, la7s & N1ks......................... .....
Whats the point? If you need that much advantage, why not just fly offline?
What is it you all are trying to prove? (possible answer) "if we screw up the arenas enough, HTC will have to admit the error of their ways & give us back the old MA"
I just cant imagine any logical reason for the player base to condone this type of behavior. Yet, It was the player base that did it.
Is it really so much fun to have such alt, numbers & plane advantage? Do you really feel a sense of accomplishment when you & 3 countrymen dive 10k to blast a lower & more difficult to fly plane? Are you proud to review the map, the numbers, the plane choice, the alt & the truce in a sort of "ethnic cleansing" way? WTF promotes this behavior?
:furious
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What? That's not outnumbered, that's a target rich environment boy! Get out there and get some kills!
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:rolleyes:
CLEARLY- you are flying with country A or B......
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What I presume is "country c" has been chronically and heavily double-teamed in the new setup in the LWAs. This has become a default 2-sided game with one side always low on numbers. I don't usually mind being habitually on defense except the other "side" gets unwarranted value for resets. All things considered the big-side loses more fights than I would have suspected given the numbers.
-MI-
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What? C-Land is back? Yer kiddin!
Ren
The Damned
Go with Green!!!
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
What? C-Land is back? Yer kiddin!
Ren
The Damned
Go with Green!!!
:lol
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NO- Cz land is not back, I just dint see the need to point fingers, so I left it vague. Its not a country problem- its a player base mentallity problem. Thats why I left it annonimous. Clearly those envolved know where/who they were, but thats not the real issue......... the issue is WHY?????
What is to be gained from flyin/fighting with such great advantage? What is the purpose/point?
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Originally posted by Atoon
:furious
2 countries with superior numbers, Vs 1 country with a fraction of numbers of either the first country, let alone both combined. On top of that, 90% of the players from the 2 coutries with numbers & truce were in alted N1ks, la7s & spits.
Country A=97 players
Country B=89 players
Country C=57 players
Dar Bar indicates approximatley 10-15, Az Vs Bz planes in Battle. Lets give a VERY generous GV count on the Az Vs Bz front of 20 GV players... for a grand total of 35 combined Az Vs Bz players. This GENEROUS figure leaves 151 Az & Bz, Vs 57 Cz. But if that wasnt Bad enough The A/z & Bz were in 90% spits, la7s & N1ks......................... .....
Whats the point? If you need that much advantage, why not just fly offline?
What is it you all are trying to prove? (possible answer) "if we screw up the arenas enough, HTC will have to admit the error of their ways & give us back the old MA"
I just cant imagine any logical reason for the player base to condone this type of behavior. Yet, It was the player base that did it.
Is it really so much fun to have such alt, numbers & plane advantage? Do you really feel a sense of accomplishment when you & 3 countrymen dive 10k to blast a lower & more difficult to fly plane? Are you proud to review the map, the numbers, the plane choice, the alt & the truce in a sort of "ethnic cleansing" way? WTF promotes this behavior?
:furious
Would guess that Az and Bz wouldn't have La7s etc due to ENY restrictions with those numbers, in fact I'm sure they wouldn't.
Unless of course your talking about MW/EW arenas.
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Originally posted by Atoon
What is to be gained from flyin/fighting with such great advantage? What is the purpose/point?
(waves arm above head excitedly)
"I know! I know!"
(stands up, composes himself)
"It's the most realistic and bestest way to win the war!"
(sits down, face scarlet)
- oldman
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Originally posted by nirvana
What? That's not outnumbered, that's a target rich environment boy! Get out there and get some kills!
Heh Nirvana, I'm with you! Most who've been flyin a while would take team C's numbers any day and be grateful.
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Originally posted by Atoon
What is to be gained from flyin/fighting with such great advantage? What is the purpose/point?
er...to not die, maybe? Just a guess. I remember odds like that were always the norm when I flew AH, and AW before that. It ain't nothin new. Many of the ppl on those target-rich teams were noobs, or at least only as skilled as I was, or less skilled. So it sorta even itself out if I flew smart. That included NOT taking off from a capped base. (hint hint)
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Oldman, ya beat me to it..:lol How ya doing?
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Atoon,
I feel your pain. This topic has come up repeatedly since the change, and it seems the battle lines are drawn between the "lets all play nicely and with sportsmanship" crowd and the "OMFG! We R teh Bst R3settrz! -- or, it's my $15 so go away" crowd.
Talking about it hasnt changed anyone's mind and isnt likely to. SlapShot, among others, has suggested some game tweaks that could address the problem, but so far HTC hasnt intervened.
Till then, there's not much we can do except arena hop till we find one that works.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Atoon,
I feel your pain. This topic has come up repeatedly since the change, and it seems the battle lines are drawn between the "lets all play nicely and with sportsmanship" crowd and the "OMFG! We R teh Bst R3settrz! -- or, it's my $15 so go away" crowd.
Talking about it hasnt changed anyone's mind and isnt likely to. SlapShot, among others, has suggested some game tweaks that could address the problem, but so far HTC hasnt intervened.
Till then, there's not much we can do except arena hop till we find one that works.
Outside of Toon's posts, this is the first one of any worth. <> Sim.
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WOW! Sounds great.... Jump on the low number team and start killin'.
The 80th thrives in those conditions. :aok
OVER
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Originally posted by Atoon
NO- Cz land is not back, I just dint see the need to point fingers, so I left it vague. Its not a country problem- its a player base mentallity problem. Thats why I left it annonimous. Clearly those envolved know where/who they were, but thats not the real issue......... the issue is WHY?????
What is to be gained from flyin/fighting with such great advantage? What is the purpose/point?
Rats! I thought C-Land was back. Ah well, did you realize us CZ were always outnumbered but we always won? At least in the FR arenas. Not sure about the arcade game (lol you RR guys can't argue cause yer all pretty much FR guys now) ....:)
Which brings up the point of the conversation...what difference does it make? Our squad has pretty much stayed within one country. Yes, we did have a few excursions to other country's to try and help out but are pretty much CZ....err.....knits. What that means is if there are 2 other countries, AZ and BZ's who decide on a truce and go after us then we just go with the flow and fight em. You come to the game to have fun. You began playng the game to have fun. Do you remember? You got shot down alot. But, you still had fun. You slowly learned and while you were learning you found out it can get frustrating due to the learning curve. No problem, right? Cause it's still alot of fun.
My point and question to you is, "At what point did it stop being a game (which it is) and lead you to think that all those years (days/months) of having fun have really changed?" or to put it more bluntly, "when did your mindset change from it being a game to what you think it is now?" "And, exactly what do you think it is now?"
Ren
The Damned
Cz Green is PEEEEPLE!( I think that was a quote from Charlt...err....Eggie)
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I know its just a game, so I guess your asking when does it stop being fun?
Well I'd have to say it stops being fun for me when I dont even have a chance to land. Even when I was new, there was a chance I could make it back to base after a battle. Lately, I seem to encounter lopsided numbers, with alted uber rides. The alted uber rides will run ya down and let the TnB guys finish.
I'd say its ok to take a few advantages, but ya gotta ask when is enough?
If you have a large numbers advantage combined with a truce with the other largest numbers side, do you really need to have 20k spitfires and the like to pick on the country with the fewest numbers?
I dunno why ENY wasnt in effect last night, maybe it was & the la7s, spixteens & N1ks I saw were just re-arming and never getting shot because they had 7-8 others clearing their 6 if anyone dared to fight their 25 player horde.
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Originally posted by Atoon
:furious
Country A=97 players
Country B=89 players
Country C=57 players
:furious
im willing to bet that country C had double the numbers of A and B in the other arena.....:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Overlag
im willing to bet that country C had double the numbers of A and B in the other arena.....:rolleyes:
(http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/images/smilies/hijacked.gif)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
(http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/images/smilies/hijacked.gif)
how is it a hijack? its the exact same subject.
if you add up the numbers accross both LW's they pretty even
edit: to sum that up this i think its tuesdays numbers
LWB
A = 48
B =89
C = 63
LWO
A = 102
B = 42
C = 83
Totals
A = 150
B = 131
C = 146
pretty even id say.
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Originally posted by Atoon
I know its just a game, so I guess your asking when does it stop being fun?
I believe these questions have already been answered, but just in case someone missed one I'll give it a shot.
Well I'd have to say it stops being fun for me when I dont even have a chance to land. Even when I was new, there was a chance I could make it back to base after a battle. Lately, I seem to encounter lopsided numbers, with alted uber rides. The alted uber rides will run ya down and let the TnB guys finish.
This one was answered for me last night when someone said over range channel, "we get to land these things? I thought the wheels were because we cant air start".
I'd say its ok to take a few advantages, but ya gotta ask when is enough?
If you have a large numbers advantage combined with a truce with the other largest numbers side, do you really need to have 20k spitfires and the like to pick on the country with the fewest numbers?
If you're flying a early or mid era plane and don't like being run down by ElGays and Spixteens, perhaps try an arena where they dont exist, maybe like EW or MW, for instance.
I dunno why ENY wasnt in effect last night, maybe it was & the la7s, spixteens & N1ks I saw were just re-arming and never getting shot because they had 7-8 others clearing their 6 if anyone dared to fight their 25 player horde.
Please see the answer above for enlightenment on this one.
Have a nice day!:D
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Well FBBone, youve got all the answers! Apparently I should just go to an arena where my country has the advantage and we can pair up with the second biggest numbered country, fly the easiest planes available so as to whup up on the lil guys, untill they all leave. Then we can take all the empty bases! How studly we will be!:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
That way every single arena will be 2 big countries racing to take all the empty bases of the 3rd country! Man that sounds like alot of fun! BRILLIANT:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by Overlag
how is it a hijack? its the exact same subject.
if you add up the numbers accross both LW's they pretty even
edit: to sum that up this i think its tuesdays numbers
LWB
A = 48
B =89
C = 63
LWO
A = 102
B = 42
C = 83
Totals
A = 150
B = 131
C = 146
pretty even id say.
You wanted you got it. I was one of the 42 Knights on Tuesday night. I switched from Rook upon the numbers. Also, Atoon is a squaddie and our squad switches. So give it up.
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Originally posted by Atoon
Well FBBone, youve got all the answers! Apparently I should just go to an arena where my country has the advantage and we can pair up with the second biggest numbered country, fly the easiest planes available so as to whup up on the lil guys, untill they all leave. Then we can take all the empty bases! How studly we will be!:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
That way every single arena will be 2 big countries racing to take all the empty bases of the 3rd country! Man that sounds like alot of fun! BRILLIANT:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
While I agree with you about one low numbered country being ganged by two high numbered countries under some "truce" is BS ( and I did see something about that on 200 last night), I'm merely stating that the EW and MW arenas had relatively equal numbers when I bounced through there. If you already fly early or mid era planes, doesn't it make sense to fly there if you don't want the hassle of La7s or Spit16s? That is why those arenas are there, right? I mean no offense, but nobody made you go to, or stay in, LW.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You wanted you got it. I was one of the 42 Knights on Tuesday night. I switched from Rook upon the numbers. Also, Atoon is a squaddie and our squad switches. So give it up.
So, you are switching sides to even up numbers? That's pretty nice. Our squad doesn't but that's neither here nor there. For a minute I thought you said you didn't want to switch sides? Which is it? And if you don't mind changing (either way its a personal preference) then what's really the concern?
Questions....Which are the rooks? B-Land? They seem to be B-Landers to me. Whacha think? And the Bish are A-Landers? They kinda fit the mold. :)
Ren
The Damned
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You wanted you got it. I was one of the 42 Knights on Tuesday night. I switched from Rook upon the numbers. Also, Atoon is a squaddie and our squad switches. So give it up.
give what up? the issue is NOT country balance, its where they are. Why should i switch to A's to help them, if its A's sides fault for all being in the 2nd arena milkrunning the other sides?
if i join one of the LW servers and find knits have too many numbers i join THE OTHER ONE LW arena because thats often got too few. If knits have too many numbers in both LW's i join MW :p
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This is meant to address the original thread, although Overlord appears to share the same passion...
Why do you spend so very much of your time worrying about what everyone else is doing? Is that the fun you get out of this game? Do you log on and count who's on what side, doing what to whom? Is it so you can come here and tell everyone? That's nice but not really needed. I'm fairly sure just about everyone who logs into any arena can pretty much tell what's happening at that particular moment.
This is actually, IMHO, a first! Someone actually would rather be a statistician than actually get up and engage in combat. I'm seen guys that do lots of reseach into WWII warplanes and post their book bought knowledge, and guys that drive jeeps and all kinds of GV's and buff muffins in their B-17's and Lanc's and such. Other guys spent alot of their free time doing charts so you'd know game planes climb and turn rates and max speeds , etc. Cool!!! It's all good!!! Now you've found yet another way someone can get their own private fun out of this game and help folks!!!
Personally, I prefer to get up and go find someone to shoot at. Funny thing about it is I normally find someone to shoot at every time I get up so I guess my fun isn't destroyed by numbers. In fact, I can't remember when my fun was destroyed by an arena or the number of people in it. Or an alliance? Muahahahaha! It ensures I have someone to shoot at.
Suggestion....since some of you guys really really like being stat mongers why not begin a thread called
"nightly stats"? In there you can list what's going on in each arena so folks can come by and see where they'd like to fly that evening. It provides many folks with a quick looksee so they can make up their minds without searching and it lets you enjoy the that part of the game you seem to enjoy so much.
Meanwhile I'll be up flying and shooting at people just like I've done since I lived in C-Land.
Ren
The Damned
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
So, you are switching sides to even up numbers? That's pretty nice. Our squad doesn't but that's neither here nor there. For a minute I thought you said you didn't want to switch sides? Which is it? And if you don't mind changing (either way its a personal preference) then what's really the concern?
Questions....Which are the rooks? B-Land? They seem to be B-Landers to me. Whacha think? And the Bish are A-Landers? They kinda fit the mold. :)
Ren
The Damned
I'll switch sides to even up the numbers.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'll switch sides to even up the numbers.
ill switch arenas to even up the numbers ;)
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
This is meant to address the original thread, although Overlord appears to share the same passion...
Why do you spend so very much of your time worrying about what everyone else is doing?
*response* I don't spend much time at all worrying about how others play, unless it directly affects my play.
Is that the fun you get out of this game?
*response*No, actually I am one of the apparent VERY few, who has the most fun in even numbered battles whether they are over a base capture- or just to furball.
Do you log on and count who's on what side, doing what to whom?
*Nope*
Is it so you can come here and tell everyone?
*I only comment about the actions that are IMO detrimental to gameplay*
That's nice but not really needed. I'm fairly sure just about everyone who logs into any arena can pretty much tell what's happening at that particular moment.
*Then my question is all that much more Valid= Why Log on & side up with the numbers & pick on the little country? How can 5 guys racing for 1 pelt be fun? Or in this case- 20 guys.
This is actually, IMHO, a first! Someone actually would rather be a statistician than actually get up and engage in combat. I'm seen guys that do lots of reseach into WWII warplanes and post their book bought knowledge, and guys that drive jeeps and all kinds of GV's and buff muffins in their B-17's and Lanc's and such. Other guys spent alot of their free time doing charts so you'd know game planes climb and turn rates and max speeds , etc. Cool!!! It's all good!!! Now you've found yet another way someone can get their own private fun out of this game and help folks!!!
* IMO yer just being a smartarse here, you know thats not whats going on, just an attempt to spin the comments to somthing easier for you to dismiss*
Personally, I prefer to get up and go find someone to shoot at. Funny thing about it is I normally find someone to shoot at every time I get up so I guess my fun isn't destroyed by numbers. In fact, I can't remember when my fun was destroyed by an arena or the number of people in it. Or an alliance? Muahahahaha! It ensures I have someone to shoot at.
*So tell us all why you didn't switch to the lower numbers side..... Clearly finding someone to shoot at is not the topic*
Suggestion....since some of you guys really really like being stat mongers why not begin a thread called
"nightly stats"? In there you can list what's going on in each arena so folks can come by and see where they'd like to fly that evening. It provides many folks with a quick looksee so they can make up their minds without searching and it lets you enjoy the that part of the game you seem to enjoy so much.
*Stats bore me more than bieng outnumberd 25 to 1. Again, Your just tryin to apply a spin on the subject, but it's not working on me*
Meanwhile I'll be up flying and shooting at people just like I've done since I lived in C-Land.
*Seems clear to me that you are easily entertained, you apparently dont mind flyin with the horde or against it no matter what the numbers or circumstances. Or so you say, but that doesnt make it true*
Ren
The Damned
Ren, the next time im on the country getting ganged by the 2 bigger countries, Ill be sure to check the roster to see which side yer on. :aok
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I've already told you. :) I don't switch daily. I'm a C-La.....errr, Knit. If and when my squad decides to inhabit some other country I'll move with it. Until then I'll remain a C....err,Knit. The last time we switched sides was 3-4 years ago, I think. If I remember rightly we moved for a month or two then went back to C-Land. We can't help it. We always been C-Landers.....err,Knits.
Other the other hand, as a trainer, I have been asked to join trainees in their country to fly alongside for a day or two. I do change to accomadate the trainees. I think the last time was around 7 months ago for a day or two.
IF there are 10 knits in C-Land....errr..Gree....errr,Knitland then that's where you'll find me. If there are 8000 there, that's where you'll find me. I don't change for numbers. I just get up and fly as do my squadies.
Hope this helps. :)
Ren
The Damned
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Cz have always been out numbered. That's why we've flown Cz for so many years. (ah, memories.)
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Would guess that Az and Bz wouldn't have La7s etc due to ENY restrictions with those numbers, in fact I'm sure they wouldn't.
Unless of course your talking about MW/EW arenas.
Kev you're a bish, I believe. so you probably wouldn't notice the predicaments of the other chess pieces-- since the new equal 2 arena setup, most nights Rooks hopelessly outnumbered in both LW's (YES, with the numbers posted above, the other side had Lgays and Nikis)
The bigger thing here is human nature, not failings of the game. --Ya got 97, 89, and 57 for rooks, and both countries hit rooks, because it's easier. Kills ALWAYS come more easily in a numbers-positive environment, which is why you see some guys' ranks increasing dramatically since the new setup--there are TONS of places now to find outnumbered countries to gang. Most folks in AH don't want good fights, they just want kills, and Hitech cant fix that
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This is how I figure it.
Knights=Cz
Rooks=Bz
Bishop=Az
That close to how others perceive it?
(edit: I will/do/have switched sides for balance purposes, but deep down in my heart I am a Knight)
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hardly. Rooks are Cz.
:)
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Originally posted by bj229r
Kev you're a bish, I believe. so you probably wouldn't notice the predicaments of the other chess pieces-- since the new equal 2 arena setup, most nights Rooks hopelessly outnumbered in both LW's (YES, with the numbers posted above, the other side had Lgays and Nikis)
The bigger thing here is human nature, not failings of the game. --Ya got 97, 89, and 57 for rooks, and both countries hit rooks, because it's easier. Kills ALWAYS come more easily in a numbers-positive environment, which is why you see some guys' ranks increasing dramatically since the new setup--there are TONS of places now to find outnumbered countries to gang. Most folks in AH don't want good fights, they just want kills, and Hitech cant fix that
rooks own EW and MW...... :o
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Originally posted by Overlag
rooks own EW and MW...... :o
Yah, but....who cares? That's like winning the Division 2 college champoinship:noid
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Originally posted by Enduro
hardly. Rooks are Cz.
:)
Knits have always been C-Land. Don't you see the green icons? :lol
Rooks....letter begins with "R" for red...yep rooks is red....therefore B-Landers...
I can't say C as someone might think it's some sort of movement when it's not.
'sides when us old "knits" say movement the younguns around here think bathroom. :)
It's just a discussion along the lines of using the terms A, B or C as was noted in the beginning thread. And, since the Knits can obviously compared to Cland......:)
Ren
The Damned
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Ren, I used Az Bz & Cz JUST to keep it ANNONIMOUS. How nice of you to try to figure out who is who, Stop trying to change the subject & just stick with the Topic please- That old game you keep referring to is DEAD, and has NOTHING to do with this subject.
When I quoted your response in my last post, I answered each question individually. I am no BBS master and I don't know how to answer each of your questions without inserting my answers into your quote. My answeres to your questions are *within the stars*.
Seems like bj229 understands the point of the post, IMO most everyone else is just trying to draw attention FROM the point, as if in some way they didnt want to admit or face the reality of the situation.
I will say I logged on the other day into LWblue, the arena had pretty even numbers & much to my surprise there was good sized dar bars on all 3 fronts. I had a great time, I died plenty & landed many. Had some great battles, gave & recieved several 's- COINCIDENCE??? I think not-:aok
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Originally posted by bj229r
Kev you're a bish, I believe. so you probably wouldn't notice the predicaments of the other chess pieces-- since the new equal 2 arena setup, most nights Rooks hopelessly outnumbered in both LW's (YES, with the numbers posted above, the other side had Lgays and Nikis)
The bigger thing here is human nature, not failings of the game. --Ya got 97, 89, and 57 for rooks, and both countries hit rooks, because it's easier. Kills ALWAYS come more easily in a numbers-positive environment, which is why you see some guys' ranks increasing dramatically since the new setup--there are TONS of places now to find outnumbered countries to gang. Most folks in AH don't want good fights, they just want kills, and Hitech cant fix that
Yup I'm a Bish.
Yup Bish and Knit tend to have the numbers in the LW arenas.
Rooks tend to have them in the MW arena.
Who hits who depends on which country is closest to being reset -
a) If all three are relatively equal in bases, fight will be on all fronts.
b) If two are equal or close on base count and one low, the low one tends to get gangbanged.
c) If One country is way ahead on base count they are hitting the low country, while the 2nd place country is trying to catch the high one.
This is NO different from what it was before the changes.
What is different -
Not only are there country jumpers if a reset is on the cards, there are arena jumpers.
Result is the low country loses players a lot faster now when a reset is close.
Totally agree, the big thing is human nature -
a) HT seems to think he is using human nature to get what he wants.
b) I think he is actually trying to change human nature to get what he wants, which will never work.
[edit] All 3 countries have experienced the "nothing going on" on one front scenario, irrespective of player numbers.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Yup I'm a Bish.
Yup Bish and Knit tend to have the numbers in the LW arenas.
Rooks tend to have them in the MW arena.
Who hits who depends on which country is closest to being reset -
a) If all three are relatively equal in bases, fight will be on all fronts.
b) If two are equal or close on base count and one low, the low one tends to get gangbanged.
c) If One country is way ahead on base count they are hitting the low country, while the 2nd place country is trying to catch the high one.
This is NO different from what it was before the changes.
What is different -
Not only are there country jumpers if a reset is on the cards, there are arena jumpers.
Result is the low country loses players a lot faster now when a reset is close.
Totally agree, the big thing is human nature -
a) HT seems to think he is using human nature to get what he wants.
b) I think he is actually trying to change human nature to get what he wants, which will never work.
[edit] All 3 countries have experienced the "nothing going on" on one front scenario, irrespective of player numbers.
Yup.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Kev you're a bish, I believe. so you probably wouldn't notice the predicaments of the other chess pieces-- since the new equal 2 arena setup, most nights Rooks hopelessly outnumbered in both LW's (YES, with the numbers posted above, the other side had Lgays and Nikis)
The bigger thing here is human nature, not failings of the game. --Ya got 97, 89, and 57 for rooks, and both countries hit rooks, because it's easier. Kills ALWAYS come more easily in a numbers-positive environment, which is why you see some guys' ranks increasing dramatically since the new setup--there are TONS of places now to find outnumbered countries to gang. Most folks in AH don't want good fights, they just want kills, and Hitech cant fix that
Rooks are the home of some of the best-known "score potatos" of the game. Part of that is creating a local "numbers-postitive" environment to pad their kill scores. So, IMO Rooks simply have their own problem of players not interested in what some of you would call a "fair fight", because they actively avoid it themselves. Seems to me the complaint is a little bit of misplaced anger coupled with a little pot and kettle.
By the way, that is not meant as a dig at those that go for rank. They are undeniably good at what they do, are evidently having fun doing it, and never are at a loss of those that fall for it (intentionally or not) and continue to up into their vulch-fests. But, a "fair fight" it obviously isn't.
So, my main point is, although the situation is clearly frustrating for some Rooks, claiming "innocent victim" status for your chess piece is a stretch to put it mildly.
My $0.02.
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Atoon, to quote you:
2 countries with superior numbers, Vs 1 country with a fraction of numbers of either the first country, let alone both combined. On top of that, 90% of the players from the 2 coutries with numbers & truce were in alted N1ks, la7s & spits.
Country A=97 players
Country B=89 players
Country C=57 players
Dar Bar indicates approximatley 10-15, Az Vs Bz planes in Battle. Lets give a VERY generous GV count on the Az Vs Bz front of 20 GV players... for a grand total of 35 combined Az Vs Bz players. This GENEROUS figure leaves 151 Az & Bz, Vs 57 Cz. But if that wasnt Bad enough The A/z & Bz were in 90% spits, la7s & N1ks......................... .....
Whats the point? If you need that much advantage, why not just fly offline?
What is it you all are trying to prove? (possible answer) "if we screw up the arenas enough, HTC will have to admit the error of their ways & give us back the old MA"
I just cant imagine any logical reason for the player base to condone this type of behavior. Yet, It was the player base that did it.
Is it really so much fun to have such alt, numbers & plane advantage? Do you really feel a sense of accomplishment when you & 3 countrymen dive 10k to blast a lower & more difficult to fly plane? Are you proud to review the map, the numbers, the plane choice, the alt & the truce in a sort of "ethnic cleansing" way? WTF promotes this behavior?
My point was your apparent effort to classify something that has been going on as long as I've been playing online air sim combat games. One side is ALWAYs undermanned. Two sides hit what's easier to hit. And, it was never listed anywhere on any rules and regs for playing this game or any other flight sim for that matter, that you MUST switch sides just because you have too many players. If you happen to like flying for a particular Country no one is stopping you nor should anyone try to tell other players how to play. I also said, if there are only 10 C-landers (knits, of course) up flying then I'll be one of them. Oh yeah, IF there were me and 3 other countrymen (hopefully squadies) then 2 would go down and kill the lower, more difficult to fly plane. The other 2 would stay up for high cover. Why would anyone want to waste alt like that with 4 planes?
Your post is kinda like greased. pig wrestiling. The pig luvs it. You just get dirty and frustrated. Try joining one Country for a year and don't change, no matter what. See what happens to your gameplay and attitude. I think you'll find one day (or week even) your Country (are you B or C Lander, BTW) will have the numbers. The next you'll be low group in the arena. And so it goes.....
Speaking of behavior, where did you ever get the idea that what your thread is about is something new and bad?
Hope this helps.
Ren
The Damned
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Perfect example from approx 3.20pm EST today (Sunday)
Have screenies also.
LW1 -
Bish 90
Knit 76
Rook 61
LW2
Bish 44
Knit 63
Rook 86
Of course LW1 was a Bish/Knit gangbang on the Rooks
and
LW2 was a Knit/Rook gangbang on the Bish.
Just shows the changes HAVEN'T done anything to make things 'fairer' or even better for the LW arenas, if anything it's 100 times worse.
In LW1 once the Rooks lost their HQ bases their numbers dropped to 40, probably went to LW2, making that worse.
Yup new changes work fine, keep your heads in the sand.
[edit] Just noticed if you add up the totals for each they come out pretty even -
Bish 134
Knit 139
Rook 147
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Yup new changes work fine, keep your heads in the sand.
[edit] Just noticed if you add up the totals for each they come out pretty even -
Bish 134
Knit 139
Rook 147
exactly what quiet a flew of us have been saying for a few weeks now...... but its as if we are banging our heads against a brick wall.
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Originally posted by Overlag
exactly what quiet a flew of us have been saying for a few weeks now...... but its as if we are banging our heads against a brick wall.
Works almost anytime of the day -
8.00pm EST
LW1
Bish 98
Knit 91
Rook 131
LW2
Bish 76
Knit 95
Rook 59
Totalled -
Bish 174
Knit 186
Rook 190
Overall 16 player advantage against lowest is nothing with the overall totals.
However -
LW1- a 33 player advantage against nearest side, 40 against lowest
LW2 - a 19 player advantage against nearest side, 36 against lowest
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Alas, only rooks seem to like EW and MW
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Hmmmm...head bangers convention...which bands are playing?
Actually, what makes you think that just because approx 400-500 people would rather fly in a large arena and under 100 inhabat two other arena's that there should be only one? Inquiring minds wanna know.
bj229r,
B-landers flew RR in another life, too~! :)
Ren
The Damned
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Hmmmm...head bangers convention...which bands are playing?
Actually, what makes you think that just because approx 400-500 people would rather fly in a large arena and under 100 inhabat two other arena's that there should be only one? Inquiring minds wanna know.
bj229r,
B-landers flew RR in another life, too~! :)
Ren
The Damned
Where did I say that? All I said was Rooks get arse kicked in LW because Nits and Bish, by and large, dont fly in EW and MW-- and vast majority of folks in AH immediately go after the weak target. I dont see where it much fun on either side of such an equation==either ya get bowled over by a 30 plane horde, or your are ONE of the 30 planes hopin to vulch the one guy who ups over and over at a porked base. Somewhere in the middle is heap much more fun
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Who hits who depends on which country is closest to being reset
You are of course exactly right.
The game encourages, even rewards, "ganging". These two things in paricular tend to focus people on the result rather than the journey, the ends rather than the means. :
- The reset perk prize.
- Secondly, score is not affected in any way by how you get the numbers. 3 kills while on a "ganging" side pay the same as 3 kills on the "victim" side. 3 kills in a la7 are the same as 3 kills in a 202. etc etc
These two elements are powerful incentives for many to gravitate to the larger side, regardless of the arena.
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LW? Sounds like all the guys who have to have all the advantages have simply went to the LW which is.... simply the old ma on a smaller scale...
given choice of which side to be on and which planes to fly... a lot of guys will pick the best planes and the side with the most numbers but...
as oldman says... what's the problem? isn't this like "real" war? isn't this the way to take bases and win the hawiian vacation?
If you don't like fighting superior numbers and late war planes at alt... go to the mid or early war... leave those guys to play with themelves in the mini MA.
one slum was taken away from these guys so they created another...It is their nature.
lazs
Public Relaitons Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
LW? Sounds like all the guys who have to have all the advantages have simply went to the LW which is.... simply the old ma on a smaller scale...
given choice of which side to be on and which planes to fly... a lot of guys will pick the best planes and the side with the most numbers but...
as oldman says... what's the problem? isn't this like "real" war? isn't this the way to take bases and win the hawiian vacation?
If you don't like fighting superior numbers and late war planes at alt... go to the mid or early war... leave those guys to play with themelves in the mini MA.
one slum was taken away from these guys so they created another...It is their nature.
lazs
Public Relaitons Officer for the BK's
:rofl Beautiful!
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If you don't like fighting superior numbers and late war planes at alt... go to the mid or early war... leave those guys to play with themelves in the mini MA.
This is exactly what I have done...and it has tripled my fun factor!
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Originally posted by lazs2
If you don't like fighting superior numbers and late war planes at alt... go to the mid or early war... leave those guys to play with themelves in the mini MA.
lazs
Public Relaitons Officer for the BK's
Strange, usually the Rooks have the majority of players in the MW, except on Mondays nights for a short time.
So if you like fighting against superior numbers with mid war planes and alt goto the MW arena.
As usual Lazs hasn't a frickin clue what he's on about.
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Here's the solution.
Quit worrying about it. Folks will or won't change depending on their state of mind.
It's still just a game. You get back what you put into it as far as I can tell.
I'm going to do what I enjoy and figure that others will do the same. Will it always be the way i want it? Doubtful.
That being said, I'll be the green trimmed 38G, on the low numbers side, probably below the bad guys, working on my evil plan to scatter 38G parts over all the arenas :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Here's the solution.
Quit worrying about it. Folks will or won't change depending on their state of mind.
It's still just a game. You get back what you put into it as far as I can tell.
I'm going to do what I enjoy and figure that others will do the same. Will it always be the way i want it? Doubtful.
That being said, I'll be the green trimmed 38G, on the low numbers side, probably below the bad guys, working on my evil plan to scatter 38G parts over all the arenas :)
LOL
Actually what is more worrying than the arena changes -
1) Lack of updates
2) Lack of patches/fixes
3) Skins - Went from weekly, to bi-weekly, to monthly, to God knows when.
Seems like Classic AH is being back burnered in favor of CT.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
LOL
Seems like Classic AH is being back burnered in favor of CT.
Lets Hope!
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well kev... If you go to early or mid war you don't have to go to the side that has the most numbers. Or... like the rest of us.. you can go to any side but look for the areas where there are the most even fights.
Local superiority of numbers is far more of a problem than overall numbers in the early and mid war arenas.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Seems like Classic AH is being back burnered in favor of CT.
which would lead me into the train of thought that they're really making progress. personally, i wouldn't be surprised if it is released soon, or atleast open beta
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Just shows the changes HAVEN'T done anything to make things 'fairer' or even better for the LW arenas, if anything it's 100 times worse.
I didn't think that any of the changes were made to make things "fairer".
The first/original change was implemented to reduce the population capacity of arenas because of "community" concerns by HT and Company, along with setting up different arenas with different plane sets for a future influx of people. No mention of making things "fairer" from all that I read.
The second change ... alternating dynamic-max arena capacity of the 2 LW arenas. This change was done to try and equally distribute LW flyers across the 2 arenas ... this was done due to the massive wailing by some that the LW1 was maxed at 250 and only a hand full of participants were flying in LW2. I don't remember this being implemented as a tool to make things "fairer" ... it was just a distribution tool.
HT could make things "fairer" real easy ... like Battlefield 2142 ... the server puts you were it decides to ... to even out the sides. Is that what you/we want ?
Making things "fairer" can only be done by us ... if we want to still have some choices in AH.
It is quite obvious that people in LW arenas are making their decisions ... and really don't include "fairer" in their decision process. EW and MW do suffer too in this regard, but it is much more magnified in the LW arenas.
My idea that I brought forth, would help to make things "fairer" in the LW arenas, but it would still require people to make a "choice" to make things "fairer" ... but at least they would still have a choice and I believe a lot would make that choice.
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NIKIS LALAS AND SPITS OH MY
nikis lalas and spits oh no
yummy they taste like chicken!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Just shows the changes HAVEN'T done anything to make things 'fairer' or even better for the LW arenas, if anything it's 100 times worse.
I didn't think that any of the changes were made to make things "fairer".
The first/original change was implemented to reduce the population capacity of arenas because of "community" concerns by HT and Company, along with setting up different arenas with different plane sets for a future influx of people. No mention of making things "fairer" from all that I read.
The second change ... alternating dynamic-max arena capacity of the 2 LW arenas. This change was done to try and equally distribute LW flyers across the 2 arenas ... this was done due to the massive wailing by some that the LW1 was maxed at 250 and only a hand full of participants were flying in LW2. I don't remember this being implemented as a tool to make things "fairer" ... it was just a distribution tool.
HT could make things "fairer" real easy ... like Battlefield 2142 ... the server puts you were it decides to ... to even out the sides. Is that what you/we want ?
Making things "fairer" can only be done by us ... if we want to still have some choices in AH.
It is quite obvious that people in LW arenas are making their decisions ... and really don't include "fairer" in their decision process. EW and MW do suffer too in this regard, but it is much more magnified in the LW arenas.
My idea that I brought forth, would help to make things "fairer" in the LW arenas, but it would still require people to make a "choice" to make things "fairer" ... but at least they would still have a choice and I believe a lot would make that choice.
Seen your idea Slap and it has it's merits.
Downside -
If they currently just goto the other LW where they have numbers, what makes you think they'd goto the other outnumbered arena if given the choice?
There is probably a very, very small minority willing to do that, but will it be enough to make a tangible difference?
If you look at what happens now, you'll see why I think it won't work -
One team getting hammered in one arena, they jump to the other LW arena.
Can't change human nature.
Yesterday once the Rooks lost their HQ bases 1/3 of them left (20 players) for greener pastures. Pushing ENY skywards for Bish and Knits, probably doing the same to Rooks in the other LW arena.
Theres your choice -
Not going well in one arena, hop to another.
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Originally posted by lazs2
LW? Sounds like all the guys who have to have all the advantages have simply went to the LW which is.... simply the old ma on a smaller scale...
given choice of which side to be on and which planes to fly... a lot of guys will pick the best planes and the side with the most numbers but...
as oldman says... what's the problem? isn't this like "real" war? isn't this the way to take bases and win the hawiian vacation?
If you don't like fighting superior numbers and late war planes at alt... go to the mid or early war... leave those guys to play with themelves in the mini MA.
one slum was taken away from these guys so they created another...It is their nature.
lazs
Public Relaitons Officer for the BK's
oh please..... where to you pull this **** out of? You talkk SOOOO much about how LW runs, yet you never play in it and you only play like 4hours a week.... hmm i suppose that means you know about everything that goes on right?
like you say.... furballs never happen in LW..... but then why did one go on for 5 hours friday? Yes, we had those "horrible griefers" trying to stop it with bombers.... but when those skilless dweebs found my 190A8 at 20k... most of them never got any eggs off....wooowooo
didnt Hitech post some numbers that showed only 9-15% flew the top planes in the old MA? People like LW because its diverse... its not just FM2 vs F4F, or Hurri2c vs hurri2c. This is one of the reasons why we asked, and GOT EW/MW planes back into LW.... because alot of us like flying the old planes in LW.
I dont switch sides when numbers are out of balance, i switch servers hence i bumped into you in EW a few weeks ago.... doing all parts of this game is what keeps it interesting....
Originally posted by Kev367th
LOL
Actually what is more worrying than the arena changes -
1) Lack of updates
2) Lack of patches/fixes
3) Skins - Went from weekly, to bi-weekly, to monthly, to God knows when.
Seems like Classic AH is being back burnered in favor of CT.
1: aye :(
2: aye :(
3: aye :(
yes, all there time should be going into CT.... but really.... how much longer is this going to be... if its going to take ages, then AH needs some work too.
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If they currently just goto the other LW where they have numbers, what makes you think they'd goto the other outnumbered arena if given the choice?
Can't really answer that, but at least some would have a choice to get into a capped arena and help balance it out ... if that is what they choose to do.
There is probably a very, very small minority willing to do that, but will it be enough to make a tangible difference?
You could be right ... but then again you could be wrong. Anything, no matter how small, is better than nothing at all.
If you look at what happens now, you'll see why I think it won't work -
One team getting hammered in one arena, they jump to the other LW arena.
Can't change human nature.
Human nature can be changed ... but only if they want to change it. Appears that the only way that people can enjoy themselves in LW is with massive overpowering numbers clubbing the crap out of the weak.
Yesterday once the Rooks lost their HQ bases 1/3 of them left (20 players) for greener pastures. Pushing ENY skywards for Bish and Knits, probably doing the same to Rooks in the other LW arena.
Is it ...
Bail when your under the gun in one arena, but revel in the numbers in another.
or is it ...
When you are constantly pummeled day in and day out, where is the fun in that ... so they just leave and go to another arena ... where, before the change, they would just log.
I think it is a good mixture of both.
Theres your choice - Not going well in one arena, hop to another.
A much better choice than logging.
Kev ... what it boils down to is that "we", the players, have to take "fairness" into our own hands ... to the best of our abilities.
If you want HT to force fairness, you might not like what you get ... I know I wouldn't.
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:aok :aok :aok Slapshot:aok :aok :aok
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overlag... I have seen furballs that lasted in the old MA too... they just didn't happen often enough for me. So you had a furball in LW? big whup... you killed some bombers trying to spoil it... great... Are you saying that anytime I go to the LW I will find a 5 hour furball with furballers and toolshedders all working together to have fun? No... I didn't think so. I don't believe that I have ever seen anyone in high alt 190's or whatever defend a field effectively for a furball. If there would have been dedicated griefers you would not have stood a chance.
allmost every time in the old MA the furball would get griefed. If it lasted it was because the griefers were busy somewhere else... and they were never busy somewhere else long enough.
EW planes in LW? yeah.. we had em in the old MA too... I never seen but one other FM2 in a month or three unless it was at a carrier... I don't believe I ever saw a spit one of hurri one. Yeah.. the late war plane guys love it that early war planes are in the lw... they figure let the suckers fly em.
In EW you can be on for an hour and see that... people working together to have fun in a couple of places at one time. ew or mid war planes that stand an even chance of succeeding.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
If you don't like fighting superior numbers and late war planes at alt... go to the mid or early war... leave those guys to play with themelves in the mini MA.
I think the guy playing with themselves are the 10 in EW or the 24 in the MW.
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Originally posted by lazs2
EW planes in LW? yeah.. we had em in the old MA too... I never seen but one other FM2 in a month or three unless it was at a carrier... I don't believe I ever saw a spit one of hurri one.
i landed 7 kills in a spit1 before in the old MA.... got like 112 perks... and as you saw in the EW.... i suck at furballing.
i also landed 3 kills in a 109E last week.... and it ended up with a hangbag fight on ch200 about how "skillless" i was etc.... i wasnt doing the argueing, i was just watching and trying to stop them argue about it.
it is do-able, and part of the fun of MA, you can do whatever you want, in whatever you want. i know my old RAF squad (swoop, ripsnort, caverlear etc) RAF flew a few spit1 missions yes, we rarely landed, but we still had fun.
Originally posted by lazs2
Yeah.. the late war plane guys love it that early war planes are in the lw...they figure let the suckers fly em.
just because you dont see it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Atoon,
I feel your pain. This topic has come up repeatedly since the change, and it seems the battle lines are drawn between the "lets all play nicely and with sportsmanship" crowd and the "OMFG! We R teh Bst R3settrz! -- or, it's my $15 so go away" crowd.
It's been an issue since before the change.
ack-ack
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Hopefully the players will make the changes & we wont have to force HTC's hand. It would be great to actually have some battles again. I don't play near as much as I used to. I remember when I used to spend almost all my free time playing. Now, not so much.
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overlag.. since I flew slow planes allmost exclusively I think that I seen more of what us slow planes were fighting than you.. and... I flew the prime time in the old MA or.. weekends.
I look at my old expanded stats to see what planes I killed or killed me.. they are 99% late war or late mid war planes with huge advantages over the early war planes. I will tell you that it was not that fun compared to the more even fights I see now... I have no interest in flying early war planes in the new MA... the LW.
Look at the stats of the guys who want the MA back with early war planes only allowed to fly if they fly against the whorde of late war ones... these guys spend 99% of their time in late war planes. Their kills are of early or inferior planes... self interest and hypocracy.
I still see guys wanting to fly the best planes in the arena in every arena... there were nothing but 109F and (LOL) 190a5's in early war rookland last night... I grabbed a spit 9 and you should have heard the comments about how the spit 9 shouldn't be in the game! What you have is a dedicated (read inflexible) luftwhiner group that is not happy unless they have the best planes in the sky. At least.... the very best planes were not the huge difference in ew that they were in the MA... from the cv I would still take an f4f and have a good chance against them if the fights stayed low.
nope.. you can have the slum arenas.
lazs
Pubic Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
nope.. you can have the slum arenas.
lazs
Pubic Relations Officer for the BK's
thanks, and you can have the boring empty arenas.
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You should have pointed out Lazs in the EW arena -
Spit 9 - 1942
190 - 1943
Neither belong there, if anything the 190 even more so.
Guess they are there to fill the woeful EW planeset.