Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dadano on November 10, 2006, 09:27:01 AM
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I've always wondered how different the gameplay was in AW and AHI.
Would people see a 3 on 1 and dive in?
Were Head-On shots as popular then as they are now?
Vulch/Shedkillers/Uneven #'s?
Just wondering:)
-Dano
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1) Generally not
2) Ask Torque... ;) yes
3) Vulching was an art form then not a way of life, Uneven numbers hmm remember days when Knights would have a hi number of 15 vs 30 Bish and 25 Rooks. Wernt no Sheds to keel.
JimBear
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Prior to the arena change-up in September, I recall AH1 being pretty close to what it is now. Things that were different...
* flight modelling was different - a bit more on the RR side
* 50 cal had a LOT more lethality...probebly pretty close to what Hispanos are now.
* the MA player community was smaller - 450/500 was a busy weekend night
* the furballer v toolshedder contingency was a lot less vocal and derisive
* one chess piece was always getting battered - usually Knights
* La7's and Spit 14's were unknown
* Niki drivers still took a lot of HO shots :rofl
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AH I
1. At times. There are always those times when I would be in a fight and turn around and see 5 buddies trying to help me. Look at it one of 2 ways.. a) They need the kill more than you and peel off. b) You have taken far toooo long to dispatch this foe and you really do need help. Once in a great while you can have an awesome 1v1 fight going and someone comes in and dusts the guy and you are like daaaaaaaaaaaang BUT if we are playing for the bigger picture then all is good anyway :)
2. Yes, always turn your guns to your opponent not your six. (Go check the training forum for posts about defeating the HO attack.)
3. Yup always uneven. I joined Nits early during beta and there were usually about 5-8 of us vs 30-60 of everyone else. I call it a target rich environment :D :D It was nice to be on the lower side even though most of the time I had to fly half way across the map to find someone to fight, when I got there it was usually the best of the best I would come up against. Helps you hone your skills quickly.
Jimbear.. good to see ya! S!
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I even HOed people back in AW. Nothing has changed at all, except the game.
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Good deal...
Thought I missed out on something:)
-dano
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So in other words it's the same as it's always been, just with more people now.
The things in AHII we complain the most about can't be changed by coding. Only by changing thepeople.
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Vulching was very prevalent in AW you even had organised vulch missions to wind up your opponents.......... but you knew them and it was "all in the best possible taste"
Porking was very common............ although the effects differed
Cherry picking was common but not so much as AH.......... mainly because gunnery between the two is different...............
Daisy chains are longer in AH........always have been. Once a bogie is saddled its rare he gets away but he can still survive for a period longer (in AH than in AW) this gives cherry pickers a longer "window of opportunity" and so you end up with more of them.
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Game play in AW was much different (in the FR arena at least) primarily due to numbers. Simply alot more 1 on 1, 1 on 2 and small group "furballs"....as a general rule the 3rd guy came in but beyond a 1 on 2 things usually were let go.....but you always had pickers.
The HO did exist in AW and you'd really here the moaning (much more so then here)....but the game code eliminated most of the damage (95%??) so it was rare and normally considered a waste of ammo.
Fields were easy to deack and vulching was more common (Think I had a 100 in a vader once:))....the big trick there was to deack a field then land your vader (or 38) and park on the runway behind the spawn and wait for a guy to try and take off. The perfect one was to shoot a guy then throttle up and catch him as he respwaned from the other end before he could get the nose down on his takeoff roll....then up and vulch again....
Toolshedders have always been here (and there)...
The flight model in AH (pre 1.4) was much much better. Then to many complaints forced it to the current easy mode we have now.....but both light years ahead of AW....
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Originally posted by Dadano
I've always wondered how different the gameplay was in AW and AHI.
Would people see a 3 on 1 and dive in?
Were Head-On shots as popular then as they are now?
Vulch/Shedkillers/Uneven #'s?
Just wondering:)
-Dano
1.) 95% of the time when I see a 1 vs. 1, I'll ask if they need assistance. If they say no, I'll still lurk around him, just in case it goes sour and he calls out.
2.) Only when Niki's, La7's and 110's are in the air. They have nothing else to bring to the table then a HO. They cannot turn worth a *****, so why not.
3.) Toolshedding began to stop RJO's when I started. Now, I see Niki's padding Attack Ranks over cities no where near a fight. Completely different set of circumstances.
Uneven numbers threads only apply to Bish/Knit. AFAIK, Atoon's post is the first Rook post on the subject. But his holds more water because we're now aware of the point "Bish/Knight is trying to send HTC and the rest of us". They've done NOTHING but piss and moan, whine and carry on in here about the balancing. They are too arrogant to realize THEY are the problem. I've switched to Knight and Bish without an issue since the change.
Vultching has always been here. If I get vulched once, shame on them, more than once, shame on me. Spawncamping, is a little different.
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Originally posted by Damionte
So in other words it's the same as it's always been, just with more people now.
The things in AHII we complain the most about can't be changed by coding. Only by changing thepeople.
Hold the calls, we have a winner!
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When it came down to strictly comfort level with what was going on...AW3-AW4W were the kings.
By that time I'd been with AW1, AWII and then III/4W from AOL freebie days through Gamestorm and EA.
The arenas were set up based on theater of operations. Perk points didn't exist. Spitfires (AWs "dweeb" ride) were limited by factories that if you killed them they'd have either limited or no spitfires.
The maps didn't change...yet I don't ever recall complaining.
HOs were limited to a next to impossible shot by the hit bubble. I don't know if I recall ever actually landing a Head-On shot. As mentioned before they were considered a waste of ammo.
Bombers could be manned by as many people as it had guns.
Killshooter didn't exist...but if you killed more than two friendlies in a 24 hour period you went Persona Non Grata and didn't receive any ammuntion or ordnance for the next 24 hours.
Intersquad rivalries existed and were very very very fun. Our squad (~U.S.M.C.~) and the MAWs had a next to legendary rivalry where we would find ourselves fighting it out every sunday squad night.
The players knew the other players. Even in the other arenas (We spent most of our time in Relaxed Realism Big Pacific) you knew who was who. The people were more than just a few letters for you to call a dweeb. You got to know that guy.
Macros were sources of humor and appeared after an often well earned kill.
I don't really remember the numbers. If the other guys had more you just fought that much harder. If we had them you could expect a good fight in return.
I remember leaving 1v1's alone. I remember helping out in a 2 on 1. If you needed help you'd send 3 quick messages that looked like this on the country text channel:
*Gol-4:'
*Gol-4:'
*Gol-4:'
That was the signal you needed help. If you didn't get that you usually stayed out of the fray and waited for the fight to conclude.
Calls for Bingo Fuel/Winchester went honored. This was not abused as far as I could tell.
We had the A-26 and the B-25. I'd love to have both of those here :)
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Originally posted by Dadano
I've always wondered how different the gameplay was in AW
I flew AW FR from 10/96 through its ultimate demise on 12/07/01. For about two of those five years there was a devoted FR fightertown arena, and that's where I stayed. With that as background, here are my recollections:
There was bad behavior in AW, too, some of it worse than what we see now. From my perspective, the most unpleasant was the small but irritating group of fraggers (there was no killshooter function like we have here). While there were vulchers, I think they were fewer simply because there was neither the need nor the desire to cap a base (although, as someone above mentions, there were people who sat on runways with A26s just to amass vulch kills)(some of them were quite famous). HOs were rare because the game codes deliberately neutered head-on shots (part of the reason AW people whine about HOs is that, in AW, a HO shot was a deliberate attempt to hit the 00 in roulette, and had nothing to do with skill).
I don't remember ganging on the scale that we often see it here, but I think that is because the numbers were so drastically different. This is probably the main reason veterans complain. The behavior existed before, but, because the numbers are so much greater in AH2, there are just a lot more bad eggs out there. As many have said, irritating people are the basic cause of irritating behavior, and this has always been so.
AW had no perk points, and didn't reward anyone for capturing all the bases on the map (caveat: I have heard rumors that in the RR arenas this often happened anyway). I personally think that AH's emphasis on base capture as the way to win the war magnifies ganging and vulching, and thereby detracts from good air-to-air combat. But that's just me. There are plainly many people - possibly even the majority of people - who place the base capture goal above the quality of the air-to-air fights, and that's something that we just have to get used to.
- oldman
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Originally posted by humble
)....the big trick there was to deack a field then land your vader (or 38) and park on the runway behind the spawn and wait for a guy to try and take off. The perfect one was to shoot a guy then throttle up and catch him as he respwaned from the other end before he could get the nose down on his takeoff roll....then up and vulch again....
Tiger in the grass trick :aok
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You couldnt actually "win" in AW just take the nuetral bases. Most of the time the better sticks simply rolled and headed for the "pond"....calls of I'll meet you at 10k over the pond were common....and normally honored....none of the 20k lurkers as a general rule. The fragging was a small isuue....but also a benifit. I probably killed a few hundred countrymen over the years who refused to honor a 1 on 1 (wish you got your 2 a day here:)).
The "vulching" normally came down to various squads "marking turf". After all we were focused on the other guy (guys) not the digital dirt. This led to SIGNIFICANTLY different game play.
Probably my single favorite AW memory was a squad op (327th Steel Talons I believe) were we rolled vaders as a squad and went to the deepest B-land base (84??) and literally capped the heart of B-lands for about 40 minutes. Now the vader was a fine A to A plane (and actually had a better then 1 to 1 (air to air only) kill ratio in WW2) with almost unlimited ammo. We were a good squad with reasonable numbers so this was probably a 20 plane mission and if I recall we had over 300 kills (almost all A to A) for the mission before it was all over.
Back then Squads looked for the other squads....in my formative days in RR#2 we had vet (82nd something or other) in C-land....Lynx (forget the squad name) in Bland and JG26 (squad I flew with) in A land. Once I hit the "bigtime" you ran into the legendary squads Dammed, musketeers, shillegagh etc....it would take years to even get an invite to a premier squad back then. It wasnt just how good you were....it was WHO you were....character counted. Most of that has dissappeared.....
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Uneven numbers threads only apply to Bish/Knit. AFAIK, Atoon's post is the first Rook post on the subject. But his holds more water because we're now aware of the point "Bish/Knight is trying to send HTC and the rest of us". They've done NOTHING but piss and moan, whine and carry on in here about the balancing. They are too arrogant to realize THEY are the problem. I've switched to Knight and Bish without an issue since the change.
"only apply to bish/knit"...well what about those threads posted by players
who fly for the country with lowest numbers when they log on?
see "ah chess pieces".
the only reason you had a fit about that thread (as far as i can tell) is
that i used numbers which showed bish low and rooks high.
had the shoe been on the other foot that evening (rooks low bish high)
i would have been fighting for the rooks and would have posted
exactly the same message.
"They've done NOTHING but piss and moan, whine and carry on in here about the balancing." i would hardly call asking PLAYERS if they are so tied to a
chess piece that they would prefer 7 to 1 odds moaning.
"They are too arrogant".... to keep it civil i'll leave this one alone.
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Originally posted by soupcan
"only apply to bish/knit"...well what about those threads posted by players
who fly for the country with lowest numbers when they log on?
see "ah chess pieces".
the only reason you had a fit about that thread (as far as i can tell) is
that i used numbers which showed bish low and rooks high.
had the shoe been on the other foot that evening (rooks low bish high)
i would have been fighting for the rooks and would have posted
exactly the same message.
"They've done NOTHING but piss and moan, whine and carry on in here about the balancing." i would hardly call asking PLAYERS if they are so tied to a
chess piece that they would prefer 7 to 1 odds moaning.
"They are too arrogant".... to keep it civil i'll leave this one alone.
Again, I have NEVER come in here, and whined about numbers. NEVER. Again, I don't CARE about chesspieces, I switch whenever the numbers are uneven. So you only reinforced what I was saying.
You can "ask" all you want. They won't switch, because they are "unhappy with the current style of gameplay and are protesting until they get their rattle back."
"Arrogant" no other word meant so much, to so few. It's merely, the truth.
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in AW HOS were not much of worry...there was a 10% randomizor on HOs meaning only 10% of counted hits would count towards damage. At least thats the way i remember it. I hardly ever recall even pulling the trigger on a ho pass. It just wasnt done in AW. At least not in FR.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
2.) Only when Niki's, La7's and 110's are in the air. They have nothing else to bring to the table then a HO. They cannot turn worth a *****, so why not.
Vultching has always been here. Spawncamping, is a little different.
Remember when I called you stupid? Do you see why?
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Originally posted by Golfer
When it came down to strictly comfort level with what was going on...AW3-AW4W were the kings.
By that time I'd been with AW1, AWII and then III/4W from AOL freebie days through Gamestorm and EA.
The arenas were set up based on theater of operations. Perk points didn't exist. Spitfires (AWs "dweeb" ride) were limited by factories that if you killed them they'd have either limited or no spitfires.
The maps didn't change...yet I don't ever recall complaining.
HOs were limited to a next to impossible shot by the hit bubble. I don't know if I recall ever actually landing a Head-On shot. As mentioned before they were considered a waste of ammo.
Bombers could be manned by as many people as it had guns.
Killshooter didn't exist...but if you killed more than two friendlies in a 24 hour period you went Persona Non Grata and didn't receive any ammuntion or ordnance for the next 24 hours.
Intersquad rivalries existed and were very very very fun. Our squad (~U.S.M.C.~) and the MAWs had a next to legendary rivalry where we would find ourselves fighting it out every sunday squad night.
The players knew the other players. Even in the other arenas (We spent most of our time in Relaxed Realism Big Pacific) you knew who was who. The people were more than just a few letters for you to call a dweeb. You got to know that guy.
Macros were sources of humor and appeared after an often well earned kill.
I don't really remember the numbers. If the other guys had more you just fought that much harder. If we had them you could expect a good fight in return.
I remember leaving 1v1's alone. I remember helping out in a 2 on 1. If you needed help you'd send 3 quick messages that looked like this on the country text channel:
*Gol-4:'
*Gol-4:'
*Gol-4:'
That was the signal you needed help. If you didn't get that you usually stayed out of the fray and waited for the fight to conclude.
Calls for Bingo Fuel/Winchester went honored. This was not abused as far as I could tell.
We had the A-26 and the B-25. I'd love to have both of those here :)
I read the above, but i can't concentrate,all i remember after 2 min. is that chick in avatar
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AW was a lot different then AH. ACM and everything was all the same, but peoples attitudes and flight styles were different. People at that time actually flew for the fight. Yea there were bombers, lots of them, but majority of the people in there wanted to fight the other players, not the buildings that stood at the base.
1 on 1s were very common, especially since everyone basically knew everyone. AW's community was much smaller than AH's, which allowed it to be a very tight nit group. There was a lot of respect, friendship, as well as strong hatred, in AW, so much in fact that unless you actually experienced it; you'll never get the full picture even if I spent all day trying to explain it. But I will tell you this, we all enjoyed fighting each other so much, SNA created a "Bounty Hunter" game inside AW. Each pilot who participated in it, had a bounty on there head. You had to have the kills on film from the start of the mission, and the more bounty's you collected, the higher yours went. The higher your's was, the more everyone wanted you.. was pretty fun while it lasted.
The fighting in AW was great. I've never had fights in AH1 or AH2 that could even come close to comparing to those of AW. The pond, the "V.O.D (Valley of Dweebs) were some of the funnest things about AW. These 2 areas were something like the "Fighter Town" we had on the donut map. Everyone gathered there to furball and just have fun.
Scores didn't matter just like AH, but it was still fun to battle for top spots on the scoreboard, individual and squad, just to have bragging rights. It was nothing to land 30+ kills in one flight, there was no rearming, the ammo just went that far, especially vulching. Planes like the A8 and A4 were out turning spits, B17s would out turn a zeke, but the best one was the goon had a gunner.
Head On's didn't exist in AW except for in Fighter Town, which was a fighter only arena. I think it was 6 bases, 2 for each country on one little island. HO's in AW were actually deflection shots, and people got so good flying with no cockpit art, they actually mastered them. AW had a lot of bugs and hacks that were exploited, which every AWer took in stride. So of the bugs were fun, like vulching the drones coming out of the factory.
AW wasn't really about "this plane flew that was in WW2" and "That plane can't really do that in real life" it was about the fun of the game. To me.. AW wasn't enjoyable because of the history behind the planes, or even the fights that I had fun in, it was the community itself, which is something that AW will always have over AH, and I think those of us who were there, will never let go.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I switch whenever the numbers are uneven. So you only reinforced what I was saying.
yah so do i... as soon as i log in i look at who needs help most and that's
who i fight for. so this reinforces what exactly?
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Originally posted by Dadano
I've always wondered how different the gameplay was in AW and AHI
In AW v1.5 you could edit the image files for the fixed directional views of your cowling, wings etc to make them transparent except for the outline. Combine that with some tight blue pants and a gold-tipped bra and you could pretend to be Wonder Woman.
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Originally posted by PK1Mw
AW was a lot different then AH. ACM and everything was all the same, but peoples attitudes and flight styles were different. People at that time actually flew for the fight. Yea there were bombers, lots of them, but majority of the people in there wanted to fight the other players, not the buildings that stood at the base.
1 on 1s were very common, especially since everyone basically knew everyone. AW's community was much smaller than AH's, which allowed it to be a very tight nit group. There was a lot of respect, friendship, as well as strong hatred, in AW, so much in fact that unless you actually experienced it; you'll never get the full picture even if I spent all day trying to explain it. But I will tell you this, we all enjoyed fighting each other so much, SNA created a "Bounty Hunter" game inside AW. Each pilot who participated in it, had a bounty on there head. You had to have the kills on film from the start of the mission, and the more bounty's you collected, the higher yours went. The higher your's was, the more everyone wanted you.. was pretty fun while it lasted.
The fighting in AW was great. I've never had fights in AH1 or AH2 that could even come close to comparing to those of AW. The pond, the "V.O.D (Valley of Dweebs) were some of the funnest things about AW. These 2 areas were something like the "Fighter Town" we had on the donut map. Everyone gathered there to furball and just have fun.
Scores didn't matter just like AH, but it was still fun to battle for top spots on the scoreboard, individual and squad, just to have bragging rights. It was nothing to land 30+ kills in one flight, there was no rearming, the ammo just went that far, especially vulching. Planes like the A8 and A4 were out turning spits, B17s would out turn a zeke, but the best one was the goon had a gunner.
Head On's didn't exist in AW except for in Fighter Town, which was a fighter only arena. I think it was 6 bases, 2 for each country on one little island. HO's in AW were actually deflection shots, and people got so good flying with no cockpit art, they actually mastered them. AW had a lot of bugs and hacks that were exploited, which every AWer took in stride. So of the bugs were fun, like vulching the drones coming out of the factory.
AW wasn't really about "this plane flew that was in WW2" and "That plane can't really do that in real life" it was about the fun of the game. To me.. AW wasn't enjoyable because of the history behind the planes, or even the fights that I had fun in, it was the community itself, which is something that AW will always have over AH, and I think those of us who were there, will never let go.
DITTO !
But, AW was very enjoyable to me, I had lots of fun flying the F6 HellCat ( ride of choice) and the P 51 D ... Fighter Town was an absolute kick in the butt :aok
Good sticks ... PAL, Cuca, ADIOS, Jug, HG, 40MAW and Rake to name a few ....
AH1 ? I allways had a alot of fun with it !
Dano !
AW RR PAC `Cuca'sSquad` CHKRS
"" "" ~~SeaSerpents~~ CHKRS
Bob/CHECKERS
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hmm .. AW vs AH playstyles?
AW had much smaller arena's for a long time. Only near the end were they gettin near as big as AH is now.
ie:
AWDos ..30 people max in an arena.
Weekend nights, if you dint get in early, you may not have been able to get in at all. .. funny thing was, when we went live on AOL, same thing happened .. arena's were much bigger then, but .. *lotta* folks logged in on weekends and filled the servers for weeks ;)
You could tell who it was just by watching the dot or seein the plane ID pop up. 'ya, there's mac again, 20k in his frik-kin spitfire' (in half time ..it took a *long* time to get to 20k!)
Az blowin up in PAC before they could roll? ..look for HT in his tank just into the water north of N:15 ..shootin about a sector ..timing was *everything* :)
Lone p-38 high over C:1 .. Rapier no doubt, vulchin singles as they got to about 5k or so.
A-26 over C:1 .. prolly DoK or Pangloss .. easy to tell apart.. Pangloss would come after ya right down to the deck .. DoK would pick you off when you tried to come up to him.
..and that Wulf always climbin away from the merge, that'd be Hardrock.
Down in the weeds, twistin an turnin in an A-8 .. Mullah.
..and auguring in formation, tryin to spell words with craters .. FUBAR all the way baby :)
Seemed a lot more 'fun' goin on, instead of 'realism' .. altho the air to air was purty hectic at times. It got crazier the bigger the crowd got.
Furballs over the pond in the center of the AOL AW were a blast. You could come in at 5k or so and just watch, pick out the boom an zoomers, fly across the mess below an pick em off as they came out the other side ..BOOM : Subby has been shot down .. BOOM : Reflex has been shot down.. Muhhaahaaa!! ..and then of course I would dive in and pick off a few down there on the water ..and eventually get blown up myself by someone doin the same :)
AH I don't 'know' who it is by watchin the plane. Only a few 'handles' I run into where I really pay attention to what I am doin .. most of the time I am goofin off in the MA . . tryin crazy stuff just to see what I can get away with :) ..and what I can't.
The formation landing last nite in FSO ..17's, 24's, 38's, stangs all funneling into A76 .. kinda cool ;) Glad they dont model vortex or prop turbulence!
AH is fun.
AW is gone.
-GE -jest enjoy the day-
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Originally posted by ghi
I read the above, but i can't concentrate,all i remember after 2 min. is that chick in avatar
Her name is Jennifer. I'll tell her you said hi :)
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(http://home.comcast.net/~hudcomp/AHII/rreuropec_2.gif)
(http://home.comcast.net/~hudcomp/AHII/rrpacificc2.gif)
(http://home.comcast.net/~hudcomp/AHII/AW_ET.jpg)
Memories!
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omg MOSQ...those maps....memories....:cry
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Although the terrain is great in AH, I always enjoyed having the ability to change the sky and terrain with the Krait's program in AW. I can't even remember what the heck it was called. I found my AWII CD a month ago and loaded it. I flew a few sorties and honestly had forgotten how basic it was compared to AH. Although many great times, friendships and memories were made in AW, we should all be thankful AH has developed to what it is today.
I think little has changed except for the ability to get a good HO shot. I do miss flying the mig, sabre and the FWa-8 in AW.
Jim 1i