Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: calan on November 12, 2006, 02:18:47 AM
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Thinking about jumping into the TrackIR scene.
Any up-to-date manufacturer or system recommendations/issues?
Thanks
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Fairly new to the game !
M'not a computer wiz. Just know the basics
Purchased the TRACKIR and UNBELIEVABLE !
Many threads with personal setups are available ...
I've adjusted mine and they work perfectly !
As for the game, takes a bit of time gettin' used to it. Espescially when engaging with EA. Head starts spinin' around:rofl
Then when u sight one in, you must position yourself properly behind your gun sights ! (F9 - F12) puts you back in normal game mode)
You can SCAN the skies in a SMOOTH motion at EVERY ANGLES.
You can follow your BOGEY everywhere he goes. You can TRACK him once he passed you on a HEAD ON and watch his next move......
XMAS is not too far ! GET IT !!!!!!
OPP7755
Phil
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lOL
Phil,
Glad to see you like the Track IR.. I wil lmake one recommendation.. instead of "turning off" your TIR for the shot.
Map a button on your Ch gear to the "Forward view" in AH. Then all you have to do is hold that button down for the shot, and it will lock your Trackir in the forward view, and not allow any yaw or pitch inputs from TIR. This will allow you to look around the cowling etc.. but ensures your are facing dead nuts forward.
Balsy
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You can get the TrackIR 3 Pro for $119 but that doesn't include Vector Expansion which you really want. Without VE your head is in one spot in the cockpit and you just rotate around from that spot, you can't move your virtual "head" up/down or slide left/right to look over the nose, or around the headrest. IMO, you really should have VE which is an additional $30. A better option is to get the TrackIR 4 Pro which includes VE. In addition the 4 has a faster update rate, tracks your head movements better and has a wider field of view. It's running about $179 now I believe so that's only about $30 more than the 3 with VE.
Be warned though, while there are lots that love the TIR (I'm one) there are some that just never get the hang of it. When you first start it will be very easy to become disoriented in a fight and, for some, can actually be pretty nauseating. Some never get over this. I recommend that you spend lots of time getting used to it in the off-line mode and play with the settings. You might want to start out with just the standard "Flight" profile and then move up to "Combat Flight" which is a bit more agressive. I tailored my profile using CF as the baseline.
Good luck.
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I for one use the TrackIR 3 Pro without the Vector Expansion, and find it to be, to coin an 80's phrase, 'Totally Awsome.'
It *is* possible to get a lot of enjoyment with you virtual head only rotating about a single point.
-Llama
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ok....i was lookin into this and its good to read all the positive feedback........one question though...is it fairly easy to set up, or more of a pain in the u know what?
thanks!!
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Itīs quite easy from a techical point of view. It just took a few days of additional fine tweaking of the settings for me (increasing deadbands & such) while getting used to it.
I may add that I donīt even have a "forward locked" view as described in the threads above. Iīm always in TIR mode while shooting. My gunnery even improved by about 50% after a couple of hours.
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How far away from the screen/unit can you be?
I have a 55 in. HDTV as my monitor, with a cockpit in front (see avatar). I'm a bit worried that I'll be too far away from it.
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I believe you need no further 3ft max.
If you're too far, your sencors on your head will pick up all kind of bouncing signals....
I had a reflecting object few feet behind me and was sending bad stuff to my screen TRACKIR. Move the item away and all went ok !
OPP7755
Phil
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Originally posted by calan
How far away from the screen/unit can you be?
I have a 55 in. HDTV as my monitor, with a cockpit in front (see avatar). I'm a bit worried that I'll be too far away from it.
You can always reverse the camera and mount it behind you instead of in front of you.
balsy
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Originally posted by calan
How far away from the screen/unit can you be?
I have a 55 in. HDTV as my monitor, with a cockpit in front (see avatar). I'm a bit worried that I'll be too far away from it.
OK, that's an interesting situation. I did a quick test and I can get good tracking in a dark room out to about five feet. Beyond that it's pretty unreliable and it looks to me that you're further away from the monitor than that so you'd have problems if you mount the sensor in top of the monitor. Also, I did my test with all the room lights out, I suspect that any extranneous light would probably create a problem even at five feet. The idea of mounting the sensor behind you may work but I've never tried it, it would be interesting to see how well that might work. Another option would be to suspend the sensor on a rod from the ceiling about 3 feet in front of you and slightly above your line of sight to the monitor.
Keep us informed, looks like you've got a really nice setup and if you can get TIR working it would be even better.
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I've noticed that direct sunlight screws up the sensor.
Sun = bad for IR sensor :)
BTW, I set 3 ft away from my 32 hdtv monitor :)
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I have a similar setup, but I use a projector and a standalong open-cockpit. In other words, there's no monitor I can put the TrackIR "eye" on top of.
My solution is:
1. Affix the reflective dot on my headset microphone, which is around my chin.
2. Buy a "ClosetMaid All Purpose Hang Up, Silver #3551." Home depot has them in the "home organization section, but Amazon has them too here. (http://www.amazon.com/ClosetMaid-3551-Purpose-Hang-Silver/dp/B000GPUJJG)
3. OK, look at the photo at Amazon. Imagine tipping the thing back, so that the large square end acts as a base, sitting on your tabletop or just behind your keyboard. Attach adhesive rubber feet to the bottom.
4. Using Zip Ties, attach the trackIR "eye" to the top of this rack, facing your headset microphone. You'll find the spacing and height is perfect. It is also extremely stable, and it doesn't vibrate.
The only problem with this is that I don't see any way to mount the vector expansion to my chin, which is what this setup would require - it is to low, relative to your face and head, to use the baseball cap, I think. Experimentation could prove me wrong.
Hope this helps,
Llama
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Originally posted by Mace2004
I did a quick test and I can get good tracking in a dark room out to about five feet. Beyond that it's pretty unreliable and it looks to me that you're further away from the monitor than that
I'm actually only about 3-1/2 to 4 ft away. (The avatar pic is distorted... cheap cell phone pic :) )
TrackIR 4 Pro is on the way... should get it towards the end of this week :aok
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""I have a 55 in. HDTV as my monitor, with a cockpit in front (see avatar). I'm a bit worried that I'll be too far away from it.""
dagnabit!!!!!!! now i know how/why i get nailed constantly by HO's, and can't seem to avoid other seemingly impossible shots...........
:furious
just kkiddin actually.........only use a 17" here..........
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I was interested in the TrackIR! I mean after all we are always in a quest to make the game as real as we can!! from graphics to now the TrackIR!
I was looking at the Site on Track IR, Is seems that the Pro4 includes the expansion? also that has the greater angle view?
Like to hear before I buy it!
Thanks
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I also forgot to ask?
what is the memory usage to run the trackIR?
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Originally posted by bandit752
I also forgot to ask?
what is the memory usage to run the trackIR?
I'll check when I get mine hooked up, but since it's probably a simple USB driver, I'm guessing minimal. Probably about the same as an optical mouse or joystick.
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Thanks for the reply!
I am going to order it? I see the price here for the Pro4 is $179.00,,,
wow!
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Try http://www.edimensional.com.
They have the 4 Pro on sale for $159.95
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Originally posted by bandit752
I was interested in the TrackIR! I mean after all we are always in a quest to make the game as real as we can!! from graphics to now the TrackIR!
I was looking at the Site on Track IR, Is seems that the Pro4 includes the expansion? also that has the greater angle view?
Like to hear before I buy it!
Thanks
That's true Bandit, the vector expansion comes with the TIR4 and it does have wider viewing angles which makes it easier to track you when you're using a lot of "body english". I haven't used the TIR3 so can't compare the performance but the TIR4 reportedly keeps track better and does't require re-centering as often as the TIR3. Actually, in practice, I've never had any tracking or recentering issues with the TIR4. I just start the game, center and go. I will re-center occasionally to change my resting head position for different airplanes but it's never been a requirement. Even with the TIR4's greater viewing angle I can still get just outside of the window during intense fights but that's usually because I'm leaning forward more than necessary. I imagine this could be a problem if I had the smaller viewing angle of the TIR3 but it's really related more to the distance the sensor is from the reflectors. The farther away it is the more volume you have before getting past the edges.
Edit: I forgot to mention but when I do go outside of the TIR4 viewing limits the screen will freeze but once I move back into view it immediately picks back up and tracks fine. No need to recenter.
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I checked out the website you left. I'm thinking of getting it and just wanted some input if it would make a difference.
From what I am seeing it looks pretty good!
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I think you'll enjoy it Bandit. My one caution is to take your time and not expect to be totally competent and comfortable with the TIR for anywhere from one to four weeks. There are those that can actually feel ill at first from the disorientation caused by changing from the "fixed" to free views but most get over it. Also, most of the comments I've seen from people who don't like it are usually within the first week or two so you need to be persistant. Last, stop yourself from reverting to the hat switch in fights, it'll slow down your adaptation to the TIR. If you find yourself going to the hat due to force of habit and can't stop then consider remapping the hat switch to remove all but the forward view. Good luck!:aok
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I know what you mean Mace! When I got my pedals I had the problem of getting use to it. Now I dont leave home without it!:aok
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a little off topic here........CALAN............ .what does it take to drive that 55" monitor? just curious, thatrs all........
john
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Well it has a dedicated VGA input for computers, but I don't use it. (It's a Sony A10 Grand Wega).
I'm using a game/media computer I built (AMD6400/nVidia 7950GT graphics) into a Yamaha M2600 receiver. The graphics card output is DVI converted to HDMI into the receiver.
The output of the receiver then uses the HDMI input on the TV.
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Originally posted by calan
Well it has a dedicated VGA input for computers, but I don't use it. (It's a Sony A10 Grand Wega).
I'm using a game/media computer I built (AMD6400/nVidia 7950GT graphics) into a Yamaha M2600 receiver. The graphics card output is DVI converted to HDMI into the receiver.
The output of the receiver then uses the HDMI input on the TV.
Nice. You know I'd bet you might even be able to watch movies on that ;)
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got a separate hard drive with ISO movie images just for that purpose. With the HDMI upscaling in the receiver, it's pretty sweet.
What's a DVD player? ;)
Now if we could just get HT to incorporate digital DTS encoding into AH, and if Micro$oft would get directx updated to support 16:9 field of view development, I'd be set... :aok
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Hey Calan, saw on another post you got your TIR, how's it working with that simpit you've got?
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Works great... beats the h3ll out of switching hat views :-)
Now if I just had more time to fly....
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I have a question for all you TIR users. I got mine several months ago, and was using it for awhile and really enjoyed it, but threre was aa problem that I never figured out.
When I swithced tothe rear views, it was (in the P-51D for example) like my face was smashed up against the armour plate and I couldn't see around it. I was able to get better views with my hat switch and the settings I had asjusted into it.
THen recently, I decided to give it a go again. However, this time it screwed up all my view settings and a bunch of other stuff to the extent that I just deleted the game, re-downloaded it and reset everything from scratch. I haven't got the guts to give it a go again yet - I'm waiting to see if others have the same type of problems and if there's a cure for it.
So what about it - have any of you had problems like these and how did you solve them?
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Originally posted by SKJohn
When I swithced tothe rear views, it was (in the P-51D for example) like my face was smashed up against the armour plate and I couldn't see around it. I was able to get better views with my hat switch and the settings I had asjusted into it.
To get an optimal view at all angles and into all directions:
Lean forward and down a bit , then center your Trackir.
That way your view will be in the highest and most rearward position during normal flight & maneuver. When you now turn your head to view behind, you wonīt be smashed against the headrest again, because "rearward" now means actually farther away from the armored plate!. When you are going to shoot, just lean forward and down again (what I found to be my natural reflex anyway) so you get your gunsight into your view again.
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I set one hat position (forward) to be a macro consisting of both toggling the TIR pause and re-centering it.
So when I need to drop into centered gun mode quickly, I simply click the hat forward. TIR is paused, view is forward default and centered.
Click it again and I'm looking around again.
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Lusche is right about your position when you recenter but there could be another problem which has been discussed on the TIR BB. It's difficult to explain but I'll give it a shot.
There are two types of motion for TIR with vector expansion (VE). The basic is rotation. That's what lets you turn your head and "look". Look left, look up, look right, etc. Your virtual head stays where it's at and the view just pivots from there (this is what you get without VE). This would be the same as sitting still and just looking around with your eyes and turning your head.
There's another type of motion though called "translation" which is added with VE. Translation is a linear motion (left/right, up/down, fore/aft) as if you're leaning. For instance lean forward and your virtual head moves closer to the instrument panel. Sit up higher and your virtual head moves straight up, slouch and it moves down. So, in addition to rotation, you now have a virtual body that can lean and twist which means you can lean to the side to look around a canopy bow or the headrest. Make sense?
The problem some people have been having is that the translations aren't correct. It seems that in some cases the translation axis (up/down, slide left/right, fore/aft) are not always aligned with the direction of your view, instead they are relative to the centerline of the aircraft. If aligned with the direction of your view then no matter what direction you're looking the translations always work the same. Look at your 9 o'clock and lean forward and your virtual head moves in the direction you're looking and closer to the canopy side glass. Look out your six and slide to the right and your virtual head slides to the right.
This is always the way it's worked for me since I first started using TIR but some people have complained that their translations are backwards when looking out their six. What happens is the translation axis are fixed as though you're always looking directly ahead, even if you're looking at your 9 o'clock or 6 o'clock. Look to your 9 and lean forward and instead of your head getting closer to the side of the canopy it slides to the right, toward the nose just as if you're looking and leaning toward the nose. Look at your six o'clock and you're seeing nothing but headrest. Slide to your right and your view moves to the left on screen (of course this is to the airplane's right side). Move your head back, away from the headrest, and your view actually moves closer to the headrest since TIR is seeing "back" as toward the tail of the plane.
I can't explain how people with the same TIR and TIR software have this issue unless it's in whatever way a particular game treats TIR. This sounds like what you're seeing. You're looking at your six and seeing nothing but headrest so the natural impulse is to move your head back away from the headrest but instead it goes the opposite direction. If your translation axis are dorked up then doing what Lusche ways will only make this worse since your resting head position is toward the back of the cockpit and closer to the headrest.
HT has a feature called "TrackIR Object Relative Move". This is under "Options/Preferences/View Options". I cannot use this feature as it screws up the translation axis for my setup so I leave it off. All of my views operate correctly this way. My guess is you have it selected on but in any case change whatever you have. If the option is selected in your menu than deselect it. If it's not selected then go ahead and select it. If either of these corrects the problem then recenter as Lusche describes and you'll be in good shape.
One of the reasons I went into such detail is that there is a lot of misunderstanding about the problem, hopefully I was pretty clear as to what might be happening to you and why. If it doesn't help then I'd recommend you go to the Naturalpoint BB. They're pretty helpful and can sort things out for you or recommend you exchange your TIR.
As far as the other problem you have you may really have had a software issue that screwed everything up. If so, I'd recommend uninstalling TIR and reinstalling the latest software from NaturalPoint (it's version 4.1.028). MAKE SURE YOU DON'T USE 4.1.029, it's an alpha version of the next software and will really screw you up. If it still happens again it might only be a bit of TIR confusion so try recentering. I know when I first started I had something similiar to what you describe a couple of times and I thought everything was AFU but just needed to recenter. When first starting up you always have to recenter, otherwise your "centered" view can be in any direction.
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H iMace!
I just ordered the TrackIR, hopefully the problems will be few and the
expections from the unit will be what expected.
Thanks for the detailed outline and especially warning about usuing the drivers!
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Mace,
I think you might have described my problem perfectly - especially the part about movement direction seeming to be "backwards". I remember thinking this same thing myself before when I was trying to get used to it.
I'll check the AH settings, etc. and see if I can't get it working correctly - if not I'll visit the TIR boards as you suggested.
Thanks Again!:aok