Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: IronDog on November 12, 2006, 05:09:59 PM
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I was having a nice Sunday afternoon watching football.My Fantasy teams were getting whooped again,so for something better to do,I thought I'd check the BB to see if anyone had answered my upgrade question.I noticed Skuzzy had a post on Vista going gold so I dropped in,and Holy Mickeysoft,they've done it again and worse.People work hard to get their puters to run efficiently and streamlined.Now we are being force fed another of Bill's operating systems.Particuarily we gamers have to overcome many obstacles,and it's fun to accept these challenges,but this borders on being illegal.I really hope there is a long period before we absolutely have to switch over,like with Win98.
IronDog
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I hear you IronDog. Personally, I will be upgrading when I'm flat unable to do what I need to with XP.
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5 years from Jan 30th 2007, no more support for XP.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
5 years from Jan 30th 2007, no more support for XP.
I ran 98 for at least a year after they stopped suporting it.
I imagine Ill be doing the same with Vista.
the only game I really play is AH
So gaming isnt an issue so long as HTC doesnt change that.
and I cant envision NEEDING Vista to surf pron
The Buisness software I use is called "Pen and Paper"
Mostly cause I cant find a proggie that will do what I want it to do the way I want it to do it.
And I dont see Bic Pens needing to be Vista compatable any time soon LOL
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Still runnin 98SE here......
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I really miss DOS and win 3.1.... :(
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I actually had alot of fun with DOS.
I found getting it setup to run the whatever games I was trying to run almost as much fun as playing the game itself
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Bah, DOS was a POS. This from a guy that grew up on DOS (didn't even have Win3.x -- only got Windows when 95 came out, as it was on a newer PC when I got it). Dos was a total mess if you didn't have an interface like Windows. Okay, not "a total mess" but "a royal PITA", shall I say?
I miss some of the games that would only run on DOS. I do not miss DOS or win3.x. I say "good riddance" to both. XP has been far far better than any of them ever were. I dare say XP is better than 98SE, especially in memory and stability.
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I have always preferred a command-line oriented approach to the operating system. Stupid mice are for eating cheese and squashing with hammers.
Windows has always gotten in my way. Pain in the tushy. I can get more done, faster using a command-line, than any GUI based OS.
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It depends on the command line interpreter.
DOS is very limited in regards to how many commands it can link together, and redirecting input/output.
However, when considering UNIX command interpreters, you have a lot more power. Not necessarily more effective, not necessarily user friendly, but more efficient.
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Yes exactly Skuzz, I wasn't the best at the command line thing but By damn if you tell a dos system that there is a modem or what ever (HERE) it would do it's best to use that pice of hardware.. I never had my old dos system try to tell me that there was no modem/what ever in this place even though it was until I had to COUGH upgrade out of it lol.
As long as you gave it a viable command it would execute without question.. This was only a bad thing when I accedently erased my WIN 3.1 folder LOL.
The farther we get from DOS the more the system runs you instead of you running the system like it should be.......
Shivvver I could sware I just saw a teminator outside my window.... :eek:
:)
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Originally posted by Krusty
It depends on the command line interpreter.
DOS is very limited in regards to how many commands it can link together, and redirecting input/output.
However, when considering UNIX command interpreters, you have a lot more power. Not necessarily more effective, not necessarily user friendly, but more efficient.
I find the UNIX command line to be very user friendly and a GUI insanely unfriendly.
Like Flayed stated. With each OS revision, the operating system is taking more and more control away from the user. Instead of the user telling it what to do, the operating system is now dictating what it will allow you to do. In some cases, with Vista, it will even refuse to do what you want.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
the ........ system is taking more and more control away from the user. Instead of the user telling it what to do, the operating system is now dictating what it will allow you to do. In some cases, with Vista, it will even refuse to do what you want.
Sounds like my ex-wife. :) I didnt know she worked for Microsoft. Cool, can I stop paying alimony now??
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I miss the good old days with dos...
and then there was getting 3.1 on the http://WWW... THAT was fun.
First release of netscape.. getting winsock configured and all that...
14.4 modem... although much faster then the 300 baud on the old C64 I used to have... come on guys you know what I'm talking about ;)
I even soldered in a volume control from an old pair of headphones I had... velcroed it to the side of the modem because there was no way to adjust the sound of the dialtone and the numbers dialing (had an old audio input because the modem couldn't generate its own tones)... And all this at the age of 13 haha
Anyways.. one of the first websites I went to went something like this:
Hrmm.. nice hair...
2 mins later.... such beautiful eyes
3 mins later... ok there's her shoulders...
2 mins later... hrmm... nipples!
3 mins later... BELLY BUTTON NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE!!!
2 mins later.. .oh yeah.. WHAT? LOST CONNECTION?!?!?!?!?
hahah yeah ... the good ole days!
I was so proud of myself though.. getting windows 95 loaded on my old 386.. didn't run too fast though.
Even today I jump to dos prompt to do a lot of things... if I have friends over they have no idea what I'm doing half the time
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LOL same here tigger.. 1200 baud modem C64 here. :)
And most of the people I know have no idea what I'm doing on the comp lol..
It's like OMG your typing!!!!!! Why arn't you using the mouse??!!!!:eek:
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Windows has always gotten in my way. Pain in the tushy. I can get more done, faster using a command-line, than any GUI based OS.
Amen. People give me funny looks when I open a dos prompt to do things, until they see how long it takes. Typically the next thing I get is "How did you do that?"
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Pretty amazing that you can do this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0ZtcxHUSDQ&mode=related&search=) for free on a low-end machine with 512 MB of RAM, but Vista will need Gigs and Gigs to do so much less... for hundreds of dollars. ;)
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"I dare say XP is better than 98SE, especially in memory and stability."
I use rambooster, a free program that manages ram and clears it out before a crash occurs, or at desktop you can manually clear ram.
They're gonna have to pry 98SE from my comp
:cool:
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C'mon people. Vista's gonna be really cool. Microsoft says so. What better excuse for buying a new box? We must look on the bright side. So many negative waves here... :t
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DOS was great. Simple. Easy to use, easy to understand. config.sys and autoexec.bat vs. registry any day. Memory was a bit of a ***** early on, but I actually managed to perfectly set the load order in config.sys and autoexec.bat (and the manual "loadhi" command -- DOS 5? Dos 6?) to get Aces of the Pacific to run without a boot disk and with all of the other drivers I normally used loaded. I spent many hours freeing up about the last 2k or 3k of that magical 640. Then EMM386 even eliminated that quibble.
Gaming became very stable by the DOS 6 era then less stable under direct X (Win 95 etc.) until at least 98SE, if not XP. I'm not looking forward to Vista at all, and will have to be forced into it eventually.
Charon
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Yet another reason not to buy vista.
A nice liitle clause in the EULA. You are only alowed ONE (1) transfer to a new pc you build. Unlike Xp wich if you remove it from your old pc you can swap indefinitly.
Also there is some funky stuff about upgrading.
This was in the latest issue of maximum pc.
Holy watermelon guess MS is realy out to screw pc gamers over.
Bronk
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This is all elitist BS. If all we had was a command prompt nobody would be playing the games we have and nobodyoutside the workplace would be using PC's.
Windows 95 was a revolution. I certainly hated DOS and wouldn't be playing AH if Win 95 hadn't come along.
5 years from now everyone will be using Vista and whinging about the next one coming along!
Carry on and make AH run only at a prompt, I'll see you all at the insolvency sale!:rolleyes:
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Try decaf. There is nothing elitest about wanting to actually be able to control your own hardware. It is not elitest to want to be able to configure the system the way you want to configure it. It is not elitest to want to be able to actually know what is going on with your computer.
It is practcal. Not elitest. Vista is very impractical and a waste of resources better used to run any given application. And there is actually no technical benefit to it. That is the big one. At least with XP, there were good solid technical reasons to upgrade from 98/ME.
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Windows 95 was a revolution? In what fantasy dimension? It didnt eliminate DOS (which is what Microsoft promised), it merely made a shell that overlaid it. The interface was very imperfect too. Win 95 simply gave the illusion (and a poor, pale one at that) of what Mac users had been experiencing for some time. A 32 bit operating system without the limitations of Microsoft's 640k barrier. Windows 95 was a fraud perpetrated on the American public. Even OS/2 was leaps and bounds ahead of Windows, but suffered from hardware compatibility problems and a lukewarm support system. If IBM had given a bit of enthusiasm to pushing Warp, and tried a little harder to include a wider range of device drivers, things might have been very different. Bill Gates found his strength in the same place Wal Mart has found theirs. Convenience.
Fast forward to today. He's still selling the same crap to people, just with a fancier wrapping and more tape and string sealing it up. No thanks. XP is as far as I go.
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You are right of course, and I accept that Windows vista won't add much to XP. XP was a big step forward from 95/98/ME. I would as soon stick with XP, but if DX10 becomes a must have which it will what then?
For me personally Win 95 made messing about with PC's accesible and fun. Also it was about then that gaming became really exciting with half life etc.
I found DOS a nightmare cos I'm not a trained PC person. Apple did it first it's accepted. Linux must be the future for a stripped down gaming system with reasonable GUI, but what about Direct X? Direct X is where Microsoft have got us by the gonads.
I'm not trying to be offensive about "elitism" but DOS was a real programmers language. Ordinary people could never get to grips with that stuff. PC gaming has got to be accesible to survive or else go X-Box/ PS3 (maybe not such a bad idea?)
There must be a way to maintain control over you PC for the masses. XP isn't too bad to mess with, I actually think Linux is the way to go if we can escape the shackles of Direct X.
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Because MS has chosen to keep DX10 specific to Vista, it will slow the number of titles which are DX10 only to a handful for a fair number of years (my guess is 5).
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Because MS has chosen to keep DX10 specific to Vista, it will slow the number of titles which are DX10 only to a handful for a fair number of years (my guess is 5).
Kewl :cool:
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I would love to see a rebellion on that scale, but with all the box shifters (Dell etc) shipping with Vista next year I have my doubts about your scenario Skuzzy. MS are very good at eventually getting popular programmes to be "oh dear. won't run unless you have VIsta". Look at the number of things that won't work on Win 95 now (USB being the most notable) which are deemed essential in a PC nowadays.
My dad was an old school Socialist and in the UK circa 1965 a company the size of Miscrosoft would have been NATIONALISED. Now that would have really screwed things up!:lol
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Having said all that, I moved straight from Windows 95 to XP and never owned an operating system in between. The key for gamers will be the lure of DX10 features. Not in AH maybe, but in shooters and RTS games etc. MS have pulled a real fast one there and when I think about it it makes me quite angry but also fatalistic
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Only morons will upgrade to Vista, so it will be the next standard by public choice. :cool:
If people were smart, no DX10 title would ever be released untill the support was extended to XP.
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The only game companies doing DX10 titles are the ones MS paid an enormous amount of money to. If the rest want to stay in business, they will chose to stick with DX9 for quite some time.
There are some nice features in DX10, but to do a DX10 only title would be suicide for a game company until DX10 is on all computers. Simply meaning, it will be years before there is a chance of that.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
The only game companies doing DX10 titles are the ones MS paid an enormous amount of money to. If the rest want to stay in business, they will chose to stick with DX9 for quite some time.
There are some nice features in DX10, but to do a DX10 only title would be suicide for a game company until DX10 is on all computers. Simply meaning, it will be years before there is a chance of that.
I agree with your statements on DX. But I've wondered why AH doesn't use OpenGL? Isn't that as widely supported as DX?
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Originally posted by NHawk
I agree with your statements on DX. But I've wondered why AH doesn't use OpenGL? Isn't that as widely supported as DX?
Good question, always felt OpenGL gives a smoother experience.
In fact back in the good old days of Glide never used DirectX if given the option.
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The problem wth OpenGL is the API is supplied by the video card manufacturer, which leads to inconsistencies in the API itself. At least DirectX is a consistent API.
The video card companies have a tendency to tweak OpenGL for a handful of applications. Everytime John Carmack sneezes, they jump.
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And OpenGL is just the video aspect, which is only a part of the total DirectX API, right?
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Correct. You still have to use DirectX for sound and input devices.