Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nilsen on November 13, 2006, 05:53:41 AM
-
Why does this come as a suprise really? I bet the russians got within that range several times during the cold war. I know that other western subs can do it with ease. US subs could also get withing that range of anything the chinese or russians have thats worth following.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20061113-121539-3317r.htm
-
Ooh boy.. I see a can of worms.. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Ooh boy.. I see a can of worms.. :rolleyes:
And i bet its tempting... come on.. have a snack, I know you want to :D
-
Maybe someone on the CV ordered some Chinese food. Perhapse the sub was picking up a load or laundry?
-
Originally posted by ByeBye
Maybe someone on the CV ordered some Chinese food. Perhapse the sub was picking up a load or laundry?
Most likely they were just delivering the new printed circuit boards for the Tomahawk updates. :D
-
diesel electric boats are very difficult to detect. I'm surprised that the chinese have developed a screw that operates quietly. I wonder if our german allies have sold them the screws or the milling machines with which to make these screws. In any event it's a good thing that this incident occurred. let's hope it serves as a wake up call to those in power here. we shouldn't be trading with china, we should be planning to bomb the three gorges dam for starters.
-
You can safely bet that you'll never hear the full story. The US Navy has been playing tag with other nation's subs and fleets for decades. Not sure why anyone is suprised by this, but of course it sounds better if the media plays it up like this is something suprisingly unusual.
Like the last line in the article where they say they can't find out if a diplomatic protest was filed... Filed with who, over what imagined offense?
One thing that isn't even brought up, is why the sub surfaced or speculation on if he was operating alone. Maybe it surfaced because it had already been "caught" by the escort attack sub? Or maybe it surfaced just to prove the point? Or maybe there was another sub lying in wait elsewhere and the surfaced sub wanted to see what we'd do? Regardless, there is probably a lot more (and also a lot less) to the story than the writer will ever know or even imagine.
Heh... A formal complaint? I can see it now...
The US would like to formally complain that your subs are good enough to sneak up on our most powerful carrier task force. Please stop being so sneaky and scaring us like that. You're being mean, and I'm going home to tell my mommy. :furious
Remember, a japanese fishing boat snuck up on a surfacing US sub just a couple of years ago, and the Russians are still playing bears vs. eagles over the pole.
-
the USA and china are not at war, what did you expect the USA to do when the chinese sub was detected and it was detected. sink it?
-
Hehe.. i dont see how they can complain if it was in international waters anyway.
The tag thing has as you say been going on since the 50s. Often we get requests by Nato ships when they are around here to send one of our electric subs after them for practise. The swedes are leasing an entire sub with crew to the USN for training and both parties gets alot out of these exercieses. Whoever owns the sub in these training excercises usually wins.
I was not at all suprised that the Chinese did this, but its the fact that it was news that kinda baffeled me. Either they belive that the general public is not aware of these things or they are trying to stir up something. It sounds more like the kind of "news story" that would make it to the Discovery Channel. They tend to air or produce some of the dumbest "documentaries" around when it comes to military matters.
-
Don't some subs also use the Stirling engine for stealth ops?
-
Originally posted by Angus
Don't some subs also use the Stirling engine for stealth ops?
A few subs are around with that kind of technology, but the chinese are not there...yet.
The germans, swedes, italians to name a few have them. Most new subs in the order books have a variation of the stirling engine now.
-
No I bet they surfaced just to let Clive Cussler jump into one of them NUMA deep sea expedition ships trailing the task force. They had Clive as a hood ornament but decided to trade him for a bikini-cled woman.
-
Maybe chuck norris heard the sub and lifted it out of the water
-
I sank a us carrier with a chinese kilo in dangerous waters. Those little kilos are very quiet as long as the batteries last. Not as much fun as an akula and those 63cm tubes though.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Maybe chuck norris heard the sub and lifted it out of the water
Hey that could be true.. I can picture this scenario:
Chuck Norris took one look at the sub which made the water around the sub freeze and pop it to the surface.
-
Originally posted by john9001
the USA and china are not at war,
Yet.
The surprise encounter highlights China's continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S
The Pentagon's latest annual report on Chinese military power stated that China is investing heavily in weapons designed "to interdict, at long ranges, aircraft carrier and expeditionary strike groups that might deploy to the western Pacific."
Beijing also has bought and built weapons designed specifically to attack U.S. aircraft carriers and other warships.
Three lines that to me say this is a country planning on going to war.
With a specific enemy in mind
Two things we shouldnt be doing
The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations' militaries
Additionally, military intelligence officials said Adm. Fallon has restricted U.S. intelligence-gathering activities against China, fearing that disclosure of the activities would upset relations with Beijing.
-
my understanding is that the Chinese sub was tricked into surfacing by a trolled burlap bag full of rice and fish heads, pulled along at about 8 kts, skipping on the surface.
-
It reminds me of how Japan was once it got modernized. If by 2020 we don't find ourselves in another world war I'd be surprised. Pleasantly...surprised.
-
Originally posted by storch
we shouldn't be trading with china, we should be planning to bomb the three gorges dam for starters.
Yep.
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
my understanding is that the Chinese sub was tricked into surfacing by a trolled burlap bag full of rice and fish heads, pulled along at about 8 kts, skipping on the surface.
:rofl :cry :rofl
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
I bet the russians got within that range several times during the cold war.
And once they got a little too close. When my dad was on the kitty hawk in the early 80s they were playing war games and a Russian Submarine attempted to surface in front of the Battle group, must have mistimed it because the Kitty Hawk ran right over the Russian Sub. I've got the T-shirt :)
-
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Most likely they were just delivering the new printed circuit boards for the Tomahawk updates. :D
That's Taiwan, not China :D
-
I think the next century is going to be more about economic warfare than actual physical stuff.
China can cripple the USA almost overnight through trade changes. Look at what happened last week when all China said was that it would diversify its investments a little and not rely wholy on US currency. The dollar hit a real low almost instantly. Now imagine what would happen if China flexed the trade-deficit muscle? We've set ourselves up so that we need them more than they need us at the moment, it's an untenable position that can strike at any time.
China's strong central government (and its willingness to flex that muscle) gives it the power to wield its economy like a whip, and we're blind to it as a nation.
Look at their current industrialization effort. We're bootstrapping their conversion from agrarian to modern industry with every purchase of a 'Made in China' tagged chachke. Look at what happened with Japan in the 70s and 80s, we helped them the same way and almost got thrown off the horse. That was peanuts compared to what a country with the natural resources of China is capable of.
Talk about bombing 3 Gorges and nukes and stuff all you want, but the real weapons over the next century are going to have Visa/Mastercard logos on them.
-
Wonder if the Chinese built that sub using some of that US technology sold to them for campagin money by a certain US president whose name I won't mention?
-
hmmm looks like you guys aint the best after all huh? :rofl
-
Originally posted by Hammy
hmmm looks like you guys aint the best after all huh? :rofl
We still have enuf nukes to discourage shooting at our ships from close or far away. ;)
-
Originally posted by lukster
We still have enuf nukes to discourage shooting at our ships from close or far away. ;)
yeah, we have them too...............but we dont have 500million men to throw at a war though :p
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
I think the next century is going to be more about economic warfare than actual physical stuff.
Talk about bombing 3 Gorges and nukes and stuff all you want, but the real weapons over the next century are going to have Visa/Mastercard logos on them.
Bomb the Three Gorges, China is NO LONGER a factor.
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Bomb the Three Gorges, China is NO LONGER a factor.
yeah.. but answer me this - how will you get over the big wall?
-
pfft, silly question, we'll ask the limeys for a boost
-
I welcome the Chinese as a potentiol enemy :cool:
If China wants to dance then we need to make it known to them what China, and all the world will look like after a global themonuclear war. We are good at planning world destruction. Hell, we are the best at it......I am sure :cry
I think this chink sub sneak is a good thing along these lines, the US military needs to always be scared. To always be looking, to be on the watch.
You can bet this news is transforming the pac fleet in major ways. At least I hope dearly thats the case. Chinese language is a ***** to learn. But the upside is there are some danged cute Chinese babes :D
-
the USA buys 50% of china's exports, if you had a business and you had one customer that bought half of your products, how would you treat that customer? go to war with them?
-
Originally posted by john9001
the USA buys 50% of china's exports, if you had a business and you had one customer that bought half of your products, how would you treat that customer? go to war with them?
But there "will always be someone else for cheap labor".
-
Originally posted by john9001
the USA buys 50% of china's exports, if you had a business and you had one customer that bought half of your products, how would you treat that customer? go to war with them?
Sadly the US only buys 21.4% of China's goods, according to those godless commies at the CIA (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2050.html):
US 21.4%, Hong Kong 16.3%, Japan 11%, South Korea 4.6%, Germany 4.3%
I think the EU is #1 with something like 23-28%.
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
my understanding is that the Chinese sub was tricked into surfacing by a trolled burlap bag full of rice and fish heads, pulled along at about 8 kts, skipping on the surface.
:rofl
-
The article I read said the Chinese sub was "stalking" the US battlegroup. Journalists have no clue. Even surfaced, and using her diesel engines, that sub couldn't keep up with a CVBG. It likely got lucky, guessing where the US ships were going and moving in well ahead of time to get in front of them. Still, if it wakes people up to the threat China posses, it's a good thing. I can't see them surfacing willingly, given the whole military exchange program and economics. It doesn't make any sense, diplomatically speaking. Why risk alienating us at this point, just to give us a little come-upance? Frankly, I find it treasonous that we would limit our intell ops against them. That admiral should be keel-hauled.
-
Originally posted by FiLtH
It reminds me of how Japan was once it got modernized. If by 2020 we don't find ourselves in another world war I'd be surprised. Pleasantly...surprised.
Reminds me.
Myy grandfather used to say about Japan ni WWII
"We sold em our steel and they shot it back at us"
Only he used slightly more colorful language when discribing "em"
Skuzzy would not be amused with the actual words so I will leave them out.
Well.. He might be. But he wouldnt let em be said here LOL
-
Originally posted by Hammy
yeah, we have them too...............but we dont have 500million men to throw at a war though :p
They had better be good swimmers.
-
No they will just wait for the Bering Sea to freeze again and create that land bridge that the ancient "indians" used to get over here. Then they will be unstoppable coming into Alaska along the Aleutian Islands and we will be forced to fight along a long distance battle.
We must build the great pacific wall from Prudhoe Bay to SoCal.
-
Originally posted by lukster
Wonder if the Chinese built that sub using some of that US technology sold to them for campagin money by a certain US president whose name I won't mention?
Hate to tell ya but the exchange of tech information between the US and China started way before Clinton/Gore were in office. Try going back to the Nixon days. Nice try though...
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Hate to tell ya but the exchange of tech information between the US and China started way before Clinton/Gore were in office. Try going back to the Nixon days. Nice try though...
ack-ack
Nixon did indeed establish relations with China. I don't believe he was guilty of giving away technology in exhange for campaign contributions though.
-
The exchange of technological information started with the Nixon administration and has continued through out all administrations. Do you really think Clinton/Gore administration have been the only ones to give them such things?
ack-ack
-
I think its easy for some people on here to sit back and say "Yea lets kick their arses!"
Others of us that will actually do the fighting wont be sitting back and watching what happens on CNN at home.
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The exchange of technological information started with the Nixon administration and has continued through out all administrations. Do you really think Clinton/Gore administration have been the only ones to give them such things?
ack-ack
I think he was the only one to trade very sophisticated technology for campaign contributions, yes.
-
Originally posted by lukster
I think he was the only one to trade very sophisticated technology for campaign contributions, yes.
You have a short memory. And "campaign contributions" can come in other forms than cash.
-
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
You have a short memory. And "campaign contributions" can come in other forms than cash.
Really? Please refresh my memory, what other president received illegal camapagin contributions from China in exchange for US secrets?
-
Originally posted by john9001
the USA buys 50% of china's exports, if you had a business and you had one customer that bought half of your products, how would you treat that customer? go to war with them?
If they kept promising to pay me for those products but never got around to it I might.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
If they kept promising to pay me for those products but never got around to it I might.
Yeah, the US gets all of it's goods from China for free and without paying for anything. Poor Chinese.
-
Originally posted by lukster
Really? Please refresh my memory, what other president received illegal camapagin contributions from China in exchange for US secrets?
Who said I was focusing solely on China? Your statement I quoted was a bit more broad than that.
-
Everyone knows, we knew, they knew, we knew they were there, but if we admit we knew, they knew we knew they were there, how could we get their acoustic signature without causing an international incident?
Say that three times fast... I dare ya.
-
I often sleep at night listening to the Acoustic Sounds of Norgie ships and subs..peaceful. Sounds like hundreds of Humpbacks without a date.
Nielsen that's NOT foam on the beach you frolic in. heehee
Haaaaar...Sea Captain
:rofl
Mac
-
So what was the sub name? S S Wong Wei (Wrong Way)....named after that fighterjet that rammed the P3?
-
Originally posted by AWMac
I often sleep at night listening to the Acoustic Sounds of Norgie ships and subs..peaceful. Sounds like hundreds of Humpbacks without a date.
Nielsen that's NOT foam on the beach you frolic in. heehee
Haaaaar...Sea Captain
:rofl
Mac
:D
Im staning by with my harpoooon to get your USAian ships. Come get some!
harrrrrrr
-
:huh
-
In the meantime I board an Icelandic ship so I can poach Norwegian fish in "smyttholen" ;D
-
:D
Smutthullet is there to be used... go ahead.
-
WTF is a smutmullet?
:D
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/david_woodersonSMALL.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Rino
They had better be good swimmers.
why do they need to swim?
You guys couldnt resist going over there :aok :p
-
Originally posted by DiabloTX
WTF is a smutmullet?
:D
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/david_woodersonSMALL.jpg)
ehh hmm... how should i translate.
smuthole? :D
Its a small area up there in the ocean that no country really owns so you can pretty much do as you please.
-
Area where the Icelanders and Norwegians sail to to have an O'l piratish scruffle :D
-
Originally posted by storch
...we should be planning to bomb the three gorges dam for starters.
We already know how to do that. Just not sure where we'll find a squadron of fully operational Lancasters from though...
-
Actually I'm no longer surprised the Chinese sub got so close.
Security is so lax in that carrier group they even let a godless communist like myself on board, with a camera.
They obviously haven't seen Dr Strangelove.
"I... I don't know exactly how to put this, sir, but are you aware of what a serious breach of security that would be? I mean, he'll see everything, he'll... he'll see the Big Board!"
-
recently in the news, USA and chinese naval units conducted joint naval maneuvers. i wonder who the americans and chinese are planing to attack?
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/11/20/2003337137
-
Originally posted by john9001
recently in the news, USA and chinese naval units conducted joint naval maneuvers. i wonder who the americans and chinese are planing to attack?
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/11/20/2003337137
Never know when those bloody Aussies are gonna get outta line.
-
Originally posted by Angus
Area where the Icelanders and Norwegians sail to to have an O'l piratish scruffle :D
You do remember what we did to Paul Watson's rust bucket? Imagine what we could do to yours! ;)
(http://karmsundet.com/Baatbilder/KV%20Andenes.jpg)
-
You can safely bet that you'll never hear the full story. The US Navy has been playing tag with other nation's subs and fleets for decades. Not sure why anyone is suprised by this, but of course it sounds better if the media plays it up like this is something suprisingly unusual.
When my dad was bouncing around the navy and marines, he had a post on a destroyer in the North Atlantic. He walked into the control room (or whatever it's called) and noticed 2 dots following their boat. He asked what they were, and found out that they were Russian Submarines. My dad became alarmed, but was comforted when the radar operator said not to worry, they are always there.
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
When my dad was bouncing around the navy and marines, he had a post on a destroyer in the North Atlantic. He walked into the control room (or whatever it's called) and noticed 2 dots following their boat. He asked what they were, and found out that they were Russian Submarines. My dad became alarmed, but was comforted when the radar operator said not to worry, they are always there.
submaries are not tracked on radar. but they are (were) tracked in the CIC.
-
Whoops, did not mean to say radar. Was rushed as I was heading out to class.