Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wmaker on November 16, 2006, 11:00:48 AM
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Hiya Pyro!
Congrats for the new version!
I was hoping we could get the RV-8 as an offline ride at some point, saw the first RV-8 built in Finland a few months ago. Damn pretty plane...someday, someday... ;)
Anyways,
Since you are releasing a new version and there might couple of patches on the way I thought I'd brought up the 20mm ammo load again.
Lazy as I am I'll quote myself from an earlier thread. :)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164304
Originally posted by Wmaker
I have a feeling that the reason pyro added 200 option for the G-2/F-4 but not for the G-6 comes from this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111725&highlight=rounds).
Grunherz asked if the document I posted was for the G-2. As it could be seen from the date it was for the G-2 but basically all the documentation that finns ever got about the 109Gs when they came to Finland was for G-2 only. As so little was different between regular G-6s and G-2s that came to Finland that any additional documentation wasn't really needed (they got the manuals for MG 131s, of course).
So I don't have any "G-6 specific" documentation to prove it but the 20mm ammo box located in the left wing of the G-6 was exactly the same size as it was in G-2. So yes, G-6 should also have 200 20mm rounds as does the G-2. G-14 should aswell. The ammo box had the same size in all of these
I also noticed that the wing cannons carry only 125rpg. The G-6 ladeplan below states 140rpg.
Source for the G-14 ammo load:
http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/airframes/413601/413601_report.htm
Source for the G-6 ammo load:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/bf109g6trp-ladeplan-small.jpg)
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Also please note that gondolas carried 140 rounds (on that sheet of paper it's right below the internal gun), not the 125 each. Sure, 30 rounds extra isn't much, but it can mean the difference of another kill or having to turn and run in the middle of a fight.
EDIT: 30 extra rounds plus 50 more for the nose gun is 80 extra rounds. Quite a significant change in ammo loading. Please think about it!
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Krusty, did you read my original post?
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I just recently heard of perk ordinance.
More rounds should be added, but it should fall in the "perk ordiance" category
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Originally posted by 1K3
I just recently heard of perk ordinance.
More rounds should be added, but it should fall in the "perk ordiance" category
Unless other overload ammo-options which are allready in AH get perked aswell, I don't see any reason for it.
And it really wasn't even an "overload" option. 200 round was the normal ammo box' max capacity.
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wmaker, I'd read the original post (and remembered it) but didn't see your line unde the quoted post about the gondolas. Sorry for being redundant.
Sorry for being redundant.
Sorry for being redundant.
:t
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IK3, just because there's more than one ammo option doesn't mean that the others need to be perked. For example, the Mossie has an "overload" option that loads more ammo, but this was common. The P38 has an option with 500rpg for the 30cals, but this was normal. The P47s have an 8-gun option that would take you a year to count every round in the belts, but this was the norm. The lighter loads were done by the pilots, for various reasons.
So just saying "perk the higher ammo count" isn't right. The higher ammo count is more often the more common one.
Somebody mentioned in the main forum "perking the 190a8 with 30mms" -- only a LOT of the A8s had 30mms, they were common place, as they were shooting bombers down.
I hope HTC perks weapons setups judiciously, and not willy-nilly. C-hog cannons, definitely yes. 109 extra ammo, definitely no. 190 30mms, definitely no, LA7 3-gun option, small perk (I hope).
Most planes in AH don't have perkable arming options.
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Originally posted by Krusty
IK3, just because there's more than one ammo option doesn't mean that the others need to be perked. For example, the Mossie has an "overload" option that loads more ammo, but this was common. The P38 has an option with 500rpg for the 30cals, but this was normal. The P47s have an 8-gun option that would take you a year to count every round in the belts, but this was the norm. The lighter loads were done by the pilots, for various reasons.
So just saying "perk the higher ammo count" isn't right. The higher ammo count is more often the more common one.
Somebody mentioned in the main forum "perking the 190a8 with 30mms" -- only a LOT of the A8s had 30mms, they were common place, as they were shooting bombers down.
I hope HTC perks weapons setups judiciously, and not willy-nilly. C-hog cannons, definitely yes. 109 extra ammo, definitely no. 190 30mms, definitely no, LA7 3-gun option, small perk (I hope).
Most planes in AH don't have perkable arming options.
Nice axis bias there krusty.:rolleyes: :aok
Bronk
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The post was about a 109, somebody made a comment about a 190... Not my fault, I'm just replying the the subject at hand.
I posted some of my other thoughts in the main forum, but everybody's acting like foolks posting smiley faces saying "Still biting at the bait!" -- they can't handle serious conversation, it seems.
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give me the Yak 9 UT
Perked of course :)
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Now THAT I'd pay perkies for!!!
EDIT: Sorry for the hijack, back on topic:
Need 200 rpg option for G-6 and G-14! Need 140 rpg in gondolas!
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Why don't we add
a rocket booster on 190's for a small perk as well,after all
few were seen in ww2
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"perking the 190a8 with 30mms" :rofl
When was the last time you flew 190A8 with 30mms Bronk? Was it a devastating killer well deserving to be perked? :D
-C+
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I was just pointing out the bias.
Notice he doesn't even mention perking any axis AC.
I don't think the A8 with the 30mm should.
But god forbid one of the fastest , best accelerating, and best climbing (at any altitude mind you) even be discussed being perked.
I'll leave you to think what AC I am talking about.
Bronk
Edit: on topic
Yes i agree 200 rpg option for G-6 and G-14. Need 140 rpg in gondolas.
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I'd love to see this cahneg made. Cant ask for much better evidence than an orginal loadout documnet.
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Pyro,
As the next release seems to be getting closer I thought I'd bumb this thread a bit. About the same time as I created this thread I contacted you in the MA. You hadn't seen this thread and didn't remember what exactly was behind the 200-round loadouts for later G-models. So the evidence is on this thread...and it is all primary source material. The ammo containers on G-2, G-6 and G-14 had the exact same size.
Could you please consider upping the ammo load for G-6 and G-14 as you already did for the G-2?
Pretty please. :)
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Originally posted by Wmaker
Pretty please. :)
Secondededed! :cool:
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While on the subject of gondolas, can the speed penalty for gondolas also please be looked into. It's supposed to be 7mph (12km/h) instead of the 16+mph it is now.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g-16476.html
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g-16476german.html
Bf 109g-14 and g-14/AS level speed performance with gondolas:
http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Performance_tests/109G14_PBLeistungen/files/PBG14_LS_SNplusMW50.jpg
from:
http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Performance_tests/109G14_PBLeistungen/Leistungen_g14u4_am-asm.html
Notice the g-14 with gondolas does 405mph at altitude (which I believe is what ours currently does without gondolas.)
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Nice axis bias there krusty.
For the mere reason that the allies won the war and we mostly belong to the allied belligerent states, I find this accusation ridiculous...simple propaganda.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
Secondededed! :cool:
Thirded :aok
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Originally posted by Anaxogoras
For the mere reason that the allies won the war and we mostly belong to the allied belligerent states, I find this accusation ridiculous...simple propaganda.
Well since this thread is well over a year old and you are hard of reading.
The comment was on the perk part.
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Originally posted by Motherland
Thirded :aok
Fourth :D !
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Alright, I added optional 200 round loaduts to the G-6 and G-14, bumped the gondolas to 140 rpg and reduced their drag a little.:noid
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Really?!
That :noid emoticon makes me wonder if that sensation I feel is my leg being pulled :D
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Yeah, obviously giving the correct ammo loadout would imbalance the arena. That's why you already see so many 109s instead of Spitfires.:noid
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Originally posted by Pyro
Alright, I added optional 200 round loaduts to the G-6 and G-14, bumped the gondolas to 140 rpg and reduced their drag a little.:noid
Great news pyro!
Thanks for listening! :)
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Originally posted by Pyro
Alright, I added optional 200 round loaduts to the G-6 and G-14, bumped the gondolas to 140 rpg and reduced their drag a little.:noid
Good. :noid
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Originally posted by Pyro
Alright, I added optional 200 round loaduts to the G-6 and G-14, bumped the gondolas to 140 rpg and reduced their drag a little.:noid
AWESOME!!!
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Quick question: Is this on the "next update" or is this something that can be done server-side? Do we wait or is it available soon?
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I'm pretty sure it's not server side.
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figures :lol
Now I can't wait for the LAs to be released (if only to get this ammo on the 109G-6!!!)
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Well, while the loading tables for the G-2 and some other documentation gives 200 rounds for the center cannon of the G-2 and G-6, at least in Finnish air force the normal load was 120-140 rounds.
After all it depends what source one wants to believe...
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However, the precedent has been set with other planes already in-game. The P-47 CAN carry 270 RPG with 6 guns, but it ALSO carried 350(whatever!) RPG with 8 guns.
Just because one localized group only used 120 rounds doesn't mean all the rest of them couldn't carry more, or didn't carry more.
The only reason I don't fly the G-6 more is the 150 round limit. I expect to use it more once we get this extra ammo.
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Originally posted by gripen
Well, while the loading tables for the G-2 and some other documentation gives 200 rounds for the center cannon of the G-2 and G-6, at least in Finnish air force the normal load was 120-140 rounds.
After all it depends what source one wants to believe...
Who cares about the Finns?
...Just kidding...
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Originally posted by gripen
Well, while the loading tables for the G-2 and some other documentation gives 200 rounds for the center cannon of the G-2 and G-6, at least in Finnish air force the normal load was 120-140 rounds.
After all it depends what source one wants to believe...
Cry me a river Gripen. :)
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Originally posted by TUXC
While on the subject of gondolas, can the speed penalty for gondolas also please be looked into. It's supposed to be 7mph (12km/h) instead of the 16+mph it is now.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g-16476.html
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g-16476german.html
Bf 109g-14 and g-14/AS level speed performance with gondolas:
http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Performance_tests/109G14_PBLeistungen/files/PBG14_LS_SNplusMW50.jpg
from:
http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Performance_tests/109G14_PBLeistungen/Leistungen_g14u4_am-asm.html
Notice the g-14 with gondolas does 405mph at altitude (which I believe is what ours currently does without gondolas.)
What alt?
I have yet to get a G14 OVER 380 at 16.5 K and from what I've read that's supposed to be it's best alt? And it should do 408 at 16.5K?
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Originally posted by wrag
What alt?
I have yet to get a G14 OVER 380 at 16.5 K and from what I've read that's supposed to be it's best alt? And it should do 408 at 16.5K?
Check the third link I posted. There are 2 speed curves on one chart. The one with better low alt. speed is the g-14 and the one with better high alt speed is the g-14/AS. They are both equipped with gondolas as indicated by their weight and by the report in the 4th link. The g-14 with gondolas on that chart tops out at 652km/h at 5000m (~405mph at ~16500ft). Add 12km/h (~7mph) for a plane without gondolas and you get 412mph which is around what a clean g-14 could do at its best altitude.
Ours will do ~404 at 16500ft with no gondolas. With gondolas I believe it does around 390 at the same altitude.
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Originally posted by TUXC
Check the third link I posted. There are 2 speed curves on one chart. The one with better low alt. speed is the g-14 and the one with better high alt speed is the g-14/AS. They are both equipped with gondolas as indicated by their weight and by the report in the 4th link. The g-14 with gondolas on that chart tops out at 652km/h at 5000m (~405mph at ~16500ft). Add 12km/h (~7mph) for a plane without gondolas and you get 412mph which is around what a clean g-14 could do at its best altitude.
Ours will do ~404 at 16500ft with no gondolas. With gondolas I believe it does around 390 at the same altitude.
With or without gonds I can not get the G14 we have to even go 400 at 16.5K IF I take off and climb to alt then go level even with wep.
And even if I dive just abit and wep when I go back level the speed drops back to below 400?????
So please explain how you get it that fast and how long it takes.
Best I've done on wep without gonds is 380?
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Any chance you've got pressure on the rudder slowing you down? Funky trim? I've tested it before, got it past 400 before quitting, but this was some time ago.
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Originally posted by Pyro
Alright, I added optional 200 round loaduts to the G-6 and G-14, bumped the gondolas to 140 rpg and reduced their drag a little.:noid
looking forward to this update :)
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Originally posted by wrag
With or without gonds I can not get the G14 we have to even go 400 at 16.5K IF I take off and climb to alt then go level even with wep.
And even if I dive just abit and wep when I go back level the speed drops back to below 400?????
So please explain how you get it that fast and how long it takes.
Best I've done on wep without gonds is 380?
The quick method:
Try using one of the 30k airspawns in the TA. Take a clean 109 (no gondolas or bombrack) and dive until you get to 16.5k. Level off and let your speed drop to 395-399, then hit WEP. You will accelerate until you hit max speed of somewhere around 404mph, which shouldn't take more than a couple minutes.
If you have a lot of time on your hands you can take off from one of the 10k fields, climb to 16k, level out, then hit WEP and wait until you hit max speed. Results will be the same either way.
I just did a quick check offline and the g-14 will do 400 or better at any altitude between 15k and 20k.
Edit: Be sure to engage autopilot once you level off and hit WEP to ensure that your plane is flying straight and level.